The Week That Was – 28th June 2024

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is time for the week.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
That was if I sounded a bit distracted throughout that weather,
that was because Kezier was making a grand entrance.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Good morning the morning, Katie, Morning bush people. And we've
got Jared Mainly over there from the COLP.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
Good morning to you, Jarkaty, Good morning listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
We get the Rural crew out to one side. Best
with us, we live Rual.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
We've got Thomas Morgan, the political reporter for the ABC.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Good morning to you, Tom.

Speaker 4 (00:27):
Morning Katy, Morning everyone.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
And from the Labor Party, we've got Mark Monahan, Good
morning to you.

Speaker 5 (00:31):
Good morning Katy, Tom, and I will hold up the
city end.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Do your best, do your best now. Look, it has
been a massive week.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
I feel as I say that every single week, but
I just want to start this morning with the news
that the Northern Territory Coroner has recommended the Territories Education
Department insure all schools are trained to respond when a
student discloses suicidal thoughts following her inquiry into the deaths
of a Darwin teenager. According to the ABC News Online, Grace,

(00:59):
who cannot be ideaied by her full name, was thirteen
years old when she died. By suicide in January twenty
twenty two, blind siding her family, friends and teachers.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Her mother found her body lying on the.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Bed in her parents' bedroom, near an unlocked cupboard where
an unsecured firearm had been stored with ammunition. It is
absolutely every family's worst nightmare.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
We know.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
At the coronial inquiest into her death, it was revealed
that despite expressing suicidal thoughts to her school counselor, no
safety planning was.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Undertaken with her or her parents.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Now it is amongst a whole raft of findings in
that coronial, but you know, it's very like, I've got
a daughter who's thirteen years old, and it's heartbreaking. Jared,
I know your girls are around that age as well.
It's heartbreaking to go through those findings. And I guess

(01:55):
you just want to make sure that if there are safeguards,
or if there are other measures that can be put
in place, that we're able to do so. Mark, as
the education Minister, I'm assuming you've had a really good
look into this and that there is going to be
some changes in the way in which we do things.

Speaker 6 (02:12):
Yeah, Katie, it's and as you can imagine, I've got
two girls and It cuts deep when you hear those
things happening. I just can't imagine what that family are
going through and continue to go through.

Speaker 5 (02:26):
It's just heartbreaking.

Speaker 6 (02:28):
But from a department's point of view, it's one of
those things where they currently are looking and have looked
at their process and updating some of their policies and
preachers for the Allied health sector who is now working
in the education space. When I first started, that wasn't
that wasn't you didn't have a lot.

Speaker 5 (02:48):
Of health people work in schools.

Speaker 6 (02:50):
It's probably a realization in the last ten years due
to the needs of our community and our kids, no,
particularly with some mental health basically ballooning in our societies
at the moment and challenging our kids. So that well
being aspect is something that is a growing area within
our schools.

Speaker 5 (03:09):
But gee, what can you say to or fact this?

Speaker 7 (03:13):
I remember, and I don't know much about this case
with this family at all, but I remember some a
couple of years ago, we started to talk about counselors
in school midmen didn't have any at one stage, and
I had meetings and briefings with the department, you know,
through the Minister's office and a school like Tomyman needs
two full time counselors and they I think from memory
they had one, but they funded that person themselves. And

(03:34):
then there were issues what was you call in process
or systems issues like the council would try and get
some information about the school, the Education department said, I know,
so we can't give you that information because of privacy.
And I understand the privacy laws and concept, but the councilors,
they're trying to do a job. And yet at that
time the Department of Education wherever that personally aised with,

(03:54):
wasn't as cooperative it could be in and after all,
what they're trying to do is to help young people
and to help young people live a normal and fulfilling life.
And so I think, I don't know what I haven't
heard what the recommendations are out of this coronial, but
one of them should be to seriously look at, you know,
the counselors and the counselor levels, because I know they
from memory and Mark might disagree that they tried to

(04:16):
do this hub and spoke concept where they have people
placed in the schools to get to know the students
and to relate to the students and understand, you know,
a bit about their families and some of the issues
they may or may not be going through.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
It. It's definitely something we spoke about a bit earlier
in the year because it was actually raised with me
by high school students who, you know, who had said
to me that they were quite concerned about, you know,
about not having enough of those counselors in the schools.
And I think when you've got kids that are saying that,
it is absolutely something that's worth listening to.

Speaker 8 (04:45):
It's a big symptom of the fact that there is
really a huge amount of mental health issues that are
coming through with young people at the moment. And you know,
I'm not familiar with the specifics of this particular coronial inquest,
but you look at the influence of say, social media,
and the sort of unrealistic expectations that can put on
young people and the mental health issues that can arise

(05:08):
from that, it's a little wonder that we're seeing so
much demand for counselors in schools and so forth, and
it really does you know, we need to start having
a discussion about, well, how can we stop this from becoming.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
Ultimately, remember the government did that Hubbard spoke that Keithy
spoke about took the council out, put him into unity
to a harbor and then they could go out to
these schools when they need it. But these children need
that relationship and this councils need to build a relationship
with the students at the school day in day out,
because you know, these children are you know, I go
young family, right and I hope they bury me, I
really do you know, just careribl but having that relationship.

(05:44):
But these kids aren't going to go and talk to
people who just pop in for a day here or
a day there. The counses need to be in the
schools and it's just unfortunately the government that policy in
relation to the Hubbard spoke which didn't work, and I'm
not sure it's ready to this particular case. And you know,
I'm not saying it is. Ultimately, it just shows that
that doesn't work. These children need those counselors because one
death is one death too many.

Speaker 6 (06:03):
Yeah, and I suppose one of one of the key
things Katie is that And it's no easy one won't
agree with me here, it's it's not it's moving also
into what is the area of well being support that's needed,
and that's not always a counselor. I can guarantee you
when you're at bush and at a remote community, probably

(06:23):
the most effective person in that community is is someone
culturally appropriate to be working in that school with well being.
But also remembering the core function of all teachers is
keeping their kids safe. That's that's their job. That's their
job to work on the kids well being. They've got that,
they've got the initial point of face to face contact.
So there is no one size fits all in this space.

(06:45):
But what is really important as we get that the
the reporting model, whoever's doing in that space working out
the reporting model is effective, it's fit for purpose, and
it stops these strategy tragedy just like that one.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Because you know, one of the other things I want
to be really clear on is like our teachers already
have a really massive job. You know, when you look
at the role of teachers, and when you look at
the expectations of teachers sometimes from you know, from parents
or from others, and what they expect that that teachers
should be doing when they're actually there to educate our kids.

(07:23):
But that's where I you know, I do agree that
I think that will the you know, the support and
the well being officers and others it might be available
at a school, I think is incredibly important as those
issues of you, as you've pointed out there as well,
Tom arise, you know with this generation, which is something
that none of us or maybe you, Tom, you're younger,
you might have had to deal with that we didn't.

Speaker 8 (07:42):
The other thing too is, you know, it obviously ended
in extremely tragic circumstances. But it's not just that. It's
also for the people who you know are growing up
with this. When they grow up, what sort of lifelong
issues are they going to be left with in terms
of self esteem and body image, that sort of thing

(08:03):
that's a huge issue that isn't is sort of slipping under.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
The radar spoken about quite so much.

Speaker 6 (08:10):
Tom's actually absolutely right in that space. And as I said,
it's not the councilor the well being officers or is
one aspect of it too. The other aspect I think
that has made a dramatic influence is taking phones out
of schools, stopping kids carrying phones in the classrooms, because
that immediate access to the video, up to the YouTube
just creates an environment where bullying can actually thrive. Yeah,

(08:34):
and we've got it as a society. Go you know what, that's.

Speaker 7 (08:36):
Not on not on the political parties. Given it's an election,
they should be looking at this issue such at schools
like to me and don't have to they're funding their
counselor there's only one there at the moment and they're
funding that from the school. But a big school, think
about telve hundred students, given well there's other big school.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
And I think the on flow as well, like when
you look at it from a more holistic perspective, if
you do have adequate counselors and enough of them within
the schools, so I know it's hard to get them,
get what marks other allied health Yeah absolutely, colleges person
and look, I get that it can be hard to
fill those positions. But then I look at the onflow
when it comes to the demand then as well within

(09:11):
our health service, where if you can actually try to
get in there nice and early and help young people
when they do have initial concerns, I would hope that
then what it means is that the need then for
further assistance may be minimized. And I'm no health experts,
so I'm certainly not an expert in this space. But
I just feel as though if you can get in
early and if children have somebody who they feel they

(09:33):
can trust that they can speak to, they can open
up too.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
I would hope that it does help.

Speaker 6 (09:37):
And the key part of that is ensuring that the
practice is absolutely appropriate, the policy settings that are appropriate
in that school to ensure that anything it is raised
gets to.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
An appropriate one hundred percent. Now, look, if you or
somebody you know does need assistance, you can get in
contact with Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen. Now, I want
to move along and take a real chain of pace
because yesterday we were joined on the show by the
Member for Catherine, Joe Hersey, who said the issue of
crime in Catherine has reached concerning levels. She reckons businesses

(10:10):
are being broken into and not even reporting it anymore.
Kids are on the streets at night, and she says
police are no longer on bottle shops. She believes that
a curfew is needed now before it gets worse. We
also know overnight that Catherine Court House was apparently rammed.
Our understanding is that there was a significant domestic violence incident.

(10:31):
The person got in their car allegedly drove to the
courthouse and smashed the doors down. Now, as I said,
you know, we've been reporting a bit on the issues
of crime in Catherine.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
I know it's not something that's new.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
But Joe's argument yesterday was if we get in early
and try and sort of.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Gate the circuit.

Speaker 7 (10:49):
Yeah, and now we've got this legislation the government bought
in the last sittings or the sittings before about being
able to put curfews in specifically and not rely on
other pieces of legislation. And let's be honest, we talked
about social media just before. There is no doubt there
will be a social media trail from Alice Springs up
to Catherine, through various families and youth groups, and I
reckon the government should look at it very seriously to

(11:11):
just help those people in castrun, given it's bloody in
the middle of the tourists and the town's people from
here to state.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
Because remember this is all about consequences. You know, if
there's going to be a curfew, there needs to be
a consequence for a breach of the curfew. There needs
to be a consequence for all the people doing these crimes.
And it seems to be that it's not and we
know the labor governments, so he chipped away these laws
and making the consequences go away. That needs to change.
We need to make sure that it's a safe place
to live in the territory, a safe place to raise
your families. And these little changes of the government are

(11:37):
now coming back to buy all territories because it's added
up to a to the you know, the egg falling
off the wall, exceptually little cracks and now it's just
right across the charity. It doesn't matter where you live.
Catherine is at a flashpoint now. But it just goes
back to the consequences that these children and these young
offenders think there are no consequences. I think they're untouchable.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Well we did, and we did talk to the Police
Minister Brent Potter about this yesterday. He said it needs
to be call from the Commissioner from the Northern Territory
Police Commissioner.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Direct him to direct the commissioner to do something well
and look.

Speaker 5 (12:09):
Very careful director operational managers.

Speaker 7 (12:12):
But the government could say we are of the strong
view based on our intel, our feedback, our local knowledge
and how we want to see the territory moving forward.
That we need to implement a curfew in Catherine.

Speaker 6 (12:26):
But at the end of the day, I am absolutely
one hundred percent sure that the commissioner knows what the
the on the ground be spoken to.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
By the government.

Speaker 7 (12:35):
Absolutely still is accountable to the minister.

Speaker 6 (12:37):
But I'd be very careful in getting involved in directing
a police commissioner about operational matters, because if he believes
there is a need for curfew, he has the power.

Speaker 5 (12:46):
To implement one.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Look, I certainly understand that, but I think that's sometimes
what you know, what does need to be remembered, And
I said this to the Chief Minister, said it to
the Police Minister yesterday.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
As well, is that it's it's not actually the.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Police commissioner's job to listen to the con It is
their job to a viously listened to concerns from the community,
but that is fundamentally the job of politicians. That you know,
politicians do need to listen to the concerns of the community.
And if the community is saying, look, we're really worried
about the way in which things are escalating at the moment,
Joe had told us about you know, an employee from
one of the restaurants trying to get to the car,

(13:17):
somebody throwing a rock, them confronting that person who'd thrown
the rock, and the person being armed with the knife.
For me, she also reckons that the A and Z
bank got broken into, another location got broken into. They've
reached the point where they're not even reporting it anymore,
which I think is the concern in itself, because you
do want to make sure that you are actually reporting
these incidents so we've got the correct crime stats and

(13:39):
that we are able to have the correct response to
these things.

Speaker 3 (13:43):
Of course, and I spoke to Joe yesterday and she
filled me in on some other things that she didn't
mention ready because she only had limited time. But the
story she was saying was unbelievable. She's saying that one
of the local restaurants there is someone was breaking in
and the fella went out and yelled at him and
then they pulled a knife on them. It just seems
to be that the consequences and the level of violence,
he's just going through the roof. You know, back in
when I grew up, if there was a punch one,

(14:03):
you shake your hand and be all over. Now you're
likely get stabbed, kicked, in the head and whatever, because
it seems to be that the level of violence has
gone up. And the message that the government's policies have
set out is that you do what you want because
no consequences you raising asia criminal responsibility, breach of bail,
all those sorts of things, and see if people wanted
to bring in the presumption against bail to make sure
that these young offenders are on the back foot to

(14:25):
start with, because at the moment they are running right
and it's affecting people right across the territory, not only
victims of crime, but tourism by businesses. People aren't coming.
And I read a story that the tourism numbers are down.
What do you think that is because direct result because
people think the territory is unsafe.

Speaker 7 (14:40):
I'll give you an I just jump in there, because
the network is alive and well, as you know, my
sister had some friends, cavan and kind of people come
and stay for her recently and before they got to
deal and they said, oh no, actually, before they got
into the territory on their network, whichever one it was,
they were told that you can't buy grog at these
certain places and if you by grog, you're going to
get stopped and search on veryous roads in the northern.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Turcey before you get to the towns, completely all misinformation.

Speaker 7 (15:04):
Yeah, but that's the kind of stuff that's going out
there aground for the great Nomad community. And it's hard
to really stop that. I mean, I've said, good, that's rubbish,
and she said, yes, I know, but that's what's happening.
And see two weeks and I think it's three weeks,
we've got the Catherine Show and it's a big regional
show and that's going to bring a lot of people
from out of communities and into town. The good people
of course, but there's going to be some rap bags
that come in. It's going to exacerbate the problem in Catherine.

(15:26):
In two to three weeks time, there's going to be
a serious problem.

Speaker 5 (15:30):
It is the key.

Speaker 8 (15:31):
The key question is, and this was asked when the
Alice Springs curfew happened and when the government brought in
that legislation afterwards, is what is the actual threshold for
a curfew?

Speaker 3 (15:41):
And the other.

Speaker 8 (15:42):
Point, and you mentioned this briefly, Katie, about there not
being any police officers on bottle shops.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yep.

Speaker 8 (15:47):
This was the exact same thing that happened in Alice
Springs before the curfew earlier this year. So the question
needs to be why were the police officers taken off
the bottle shops as well?

Speaker 4 (15:56):
And what are police doing now?

Speaker 8 (15:58):
And that's something that the Commission had probably be I'm sorry,
is why there has been a removal if there has
been a removal of resources from Catherine.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Look, we are going to have to take a very
quick break. You are listening to mix on OPRAH nine's
three sixty. It is the week that was. We are
going to continue that discussion though about alcohol policy very shortly.
You are listening to the week that was in the
studio this morning. We've got Jered Maylee, Keesyer Puric, Thomas
Morgan and Mark Monaghan. Now we know that the government
have announced, well a couple of days ago, that they

(16:28):
are continuing, they say, to deliver on their common sense
plan to reduce anti social behavior by strengthening the territories
liquor laws. So as of Monday, July one, the on
the spot penalty for patrons that failed to leave or
attempt to re enter a licensed premises after being barred,
they're going to face five penalty units or nine hundred
and twenty five bucks from July one. They're also going

(16:51):
to be in a situation where these amendments to the
regulation to regulations, including new conditions for grocery stores and
takeaway licenses to address the consumption of alcohol on prohibited
public places. So basically, you're different outlets are going to
be able to ask a customer where they're going to
be drinking, So they have to be able to state
the place where that alcohol is intended to be consumed.

(17:14):
If the intended location is a prohibited public place or
other restricted area, the licensee or an employee is not
required to make this request though if they believe that
doing so could risk their safety. So it is all
part of the three year review of the Liquor Act,
and it found that measures had an impact in reducing
unlawful consumption of alcohol in public places. But I guess,

(17:36):
you know, talking about all of that, and also talking
about the palis on the bottle shops in some locations,
one thing that always has worked is those palies on
bottle shops.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
There is no doubt about that.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
But as I mentioned a little while ago, we definitely
have people in Catherine saying that they are not there
at the same level as what they had been previously.
I mean, Mark, I might go to you first, if
you like, because we cut you off a little earlier.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
And didn't let you speak about the.

Speaker 5 (18:02):
My wife does that.

Speaker 7 (18:03):
To me as well then.

Speaker 6 (18:06):
Unfortunately I wasn't around in Keyesy's days, speaker, I'm sure
she would have done it to me too.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Apparently than anybody else. Sometimes I found that in the researcher.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
But I mean, like, first off, I guess are there
still We spoke to Brent Potter about this yesterday. He
says there are still palis on the bottle shop seeing Catherine.
We're being told that there's not the same degree as previous.

Speaker 5 (18:27):
Has been removed. Absolutely no, And in fact, what will happen?

Speaker 6 (18:30):
I think today there's a graduation that all the police
is will and there's another ten police officers going to Catherine.

Speaker 5 (18:38):
There is no reduction in anything.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
I suppose that the interesting thing is going to be
as these other changes get rolled out, and as we
see a situation where different people working inside bottle shops
are going to be asking further questions of people in
terms of where they're consuming alcohol and that kind of thing,
whether it is potentially going to put them in dangerous situations.
Now I know based on that press release that the
government's sent out they have said that the licensee or

(19:03):
employee if the licensee is not required to make the
request if they believe that doing.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
So would risk their safety. What do we make of USh?

Speaker 3 (19:11):
Well, can I just start with saying about the on
the spot fine. Ultimately, this is another backfit from the
labor government becauld. Remember the Silpe had that up at
a high rate. The government got in and they reduced
it down and now it's gone back up again. Just
goes to show that this government is just back flipping
around beause I don't really have a plan about how
to deal with antisocial behavior. And we can see the
evidences of crimes through the roof. You can walk along
the streets of Darwin, Catherine Tan and Alice Rings and

(19:33):
see people drinking antisocial behavior. I was actually had a
meeting yesterday. Some of the stories that I were telling
me in Karama about the antisocial behavior and the alcohol
abuse is just unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
And I get like with that with the penalty points,
that nine hundred and twenty five dollar fine, Like I
get the reason why it's being done. I understand that
both sides of politics want it to happen, but let's
be blunt about this, Like, are we talking about shucking
people out of location on Mitchell Street while we're talking
about chucking people out of a pub like it's gone
to be the How.

Speaker 7 (20:01):
Is it actually going to be regulated?

Speaker 4 (20:02):
Yes, I get it.

Speaker 7 (20:03):
The person's causing trouble at the establishment. The establishment usually
has security. They like them to leave. They don't leave,
then what so then they obviously have to they have to.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
Call the police because the police.

Speaker 7 (20:13):
I would think, are the only ones who can issue
a fine under the legislation. The security people won't be
able to so the police are going to be called
to these places. Now, I would like to know how
many what's where's the data to support this? How many
people have been asked to leave?

Speaker 2 (20:27):
Big established feel like it's going to be a little
bit like the trespass notices that we have been told
or effective. But you know we've spoken about before the
likes of Casuarina. I don't know just how effective they
are because they still see people well exactly, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
And an other example is about the secondary supply. We
know the Labor government bang on how rampid it is. Well,
we ask some questions in parliament. No one's been charged
for secondary supply for three years and in twenty one
three people got charged. So when you were talking about
evidence and they up the penalty for that, but no
one's actually been charged to where are the evidence in
writs and how it's going to work because ultimately this
government seemed to just flop around, going back and forth

(21:02):
and there's no evidence to back up their decision.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
I mean, what do we.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
Make though of the changes in terms of people having
to be able to prove where they are going to
consume their alcohol as well?

Speaker 8 (21:11):
Well, that was one of the first Like I remember
when I first moved to Darwin, it would have been
four years ago now, I went to a bottle shop
and got asked where I'd be consuming the liquor and
I sort of thought it was a bit of a
silly question because it's on your license, well, because I
had a Queen's und license a the time. But it
was also like, well I could just say if I go, like,
it's not like there's no burden of proof on anyone.

(21:32):
I just I wonder if that's really going to make
a huge difference places on the ground.

Speaker 7 (21:38):
I agree with you, Thomas. I think that place is
an extra burden on bottle shop people, attendance workers, whatever, like,
oh were you drinking this? And I asked the bloke
one day, said why did you ask me where I'm
drinking this? He said, it's on your license, So what's
the point.

Speaker 8 (21:51):
But case of tourists, well, yeah, I mean I was
I just moved to the territory.

Speaker 4 (21:56):
I still have my queens on drivers.

Speaker 7 (21:57):
Liss and provide your passport. Yeah, it just has to
be idea and that doesn't always have lot your residence
on it. But you may not be drinking it at
your home. I'm maybe going around to a mates place.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
For me, I think it is feeling a bad thing
in the sense that if you are able to, you know,
if you're able to stop some people purchasing alcohol, if
they're planning, or if they don't actually have somewhere where
they're going, if they don't have an address where they
are going to consume it. But then I suppose the
tough part is if you know, if I say, oh,
I'm going to have a drink, I'm going to take
it to East Point and have a drink there, or
I don't know, somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Like am I going to be refused?

Speaker 2 (22:28):
I don't know, But I think that the government's got
to try something, right, Like, I do agree with that
that something does need to be tried to to try
to stop the issues that we're seeing when it comes
to that public drinking. But that's where a lot of
people listening are going to go, Well, Katie, you know,
why isn't it an offense to drink in public? And
you know, and that's a discussion we've had on so

(22:49):
many occasions.

Speaker 8 (22:52):
The issue again comes back to prevention. You know, if
there wasn't an addiction issue in the first place, there
wouldn't be all that this needs for regulation. It comes
back to prevention, and it comes back to the fact
that we also found out in estimates that you know,
there was a voluntary buyback scheme of the eighty one
grocery store liquor licenses in the territory.

Speaker 4 (23:10):
Only five stores accepted it, right, and so.

Speaker 7 (23:13):
That money hasn't been paid out. They're still negotiating.

Speaker 8 (23:15):
Yeah, and one of them, I believe one of the
stores that did accept it was closing down anyway, So
they just you know.

Speaker 7 (23:20):
Said I'll give you back my last nase. Yeah. So
they actually haven't handed them back yet because they are
still negotiating the compensation.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Look.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
One of the other things that the government did say
that they're doing though this week is that they are
going to have a three week blitz cracking down on
alcohol related anti social behavior across Casuarina, Darwin, CBD and Winelli. Again,
good move, I wondered why only now a few weeks
out from the election.

Speaker 6 (23:46):
Also mattered that they also are doing that across the
show circuits as well, which is really important that we've seen,
whether it's major football games or whatever that brings people
into turn the tech month the time it takes to
get peace pull back into their communities.

Speaker 7 (24:02):
Because of they want to stay in the big city.

Speaker 5 (24:04):
They want to stay in the big city.

Speaker 6 (24:05):
But at the same time, Kesier, you and I stay
in a big city, we have to stay in a hotel.
We don't get to the option of if I go
to Paris, I don't get to sleep under the Eiffel
Tower and save myself so that I can I can
spend the money on on on my holiday. So there
is an absolute line around that, and the operational events

(24:28):
that will come up after them will ensure that we
don't we're not faced with people in the in the
community who are just staying there for way belong what
they need to for the event of coming into a
a show crap down?

Speaker 4 (24:43):
Though, is this an operational thing that police decided on operational?

Speaker 5 (24:46):
All these things are operational.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
What I guess I'm finding interesting is the timing of
some of the different things that are happening at the moment,
and I welcome them, but the timing is obviously quite
close to a Northern Territory nature.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Unusual for me.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Well, and I don't know, but there was some polling
that was released a little bit earlier this week as
well that's actually put the two major parties virtually neck
and neck for the first time since resignation.

Speaker 8 (25:13):
But the previous poll was the gas exactly, I believe
the best one.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
But we're listening the community, we're outdoor knocking, we're out
there getting on the ground and hearing from territory in
what they concerned.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
I wondered, if you're both actually listening to the polling,
and that's my announcements coming out that are actually what
the community wants.

Speaker 8 (25:35):
Well, there's internal polling of course that we never get
to see that they would be conducting every week and
they'd be focus groups. The the thing about it is
like the individual polls aren't that accurate in the Northern
Territory for a lot of reasons. But the interesting thing
is the last three poles that we've had in the
Northern Territory, each one has shown the gap between the
CELP and Labor cop being ahead, but that gap has

(25:57):
been narrowing consistently, and so it's not necessarily each individual
poll that's important.

Speaker 4 (26:02):
It's the direction of travel and it.

Speaker 8 (26:04):
Does show that Labor is starting to claw back, at
least that's what the polls show. Like whether that's just
inaccurate polling or not is another question, but it does
raise some questions about whether this is going to be
a much tighter election than we would have possibly presumed.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
That we initially saw December.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
And the other interesting part, I think, or the other
interesting aspect of what did come out in the most
recent polling is having a bit of a closer look
at what the Greens and the Independence may do in
terms of their preferences and the impact that that would
have on either major party. Now I will say that
I think no matter what the Independence and the Greens do,
probably nothing is going to be as detrimental to the

(26:41):
COLP as what territory alliance was last election. In terms
of taking those preferences, I could be, well, you.

Speaker 8 (26:49):
Know, I do think that there is still the very
primary votes lest possibility of a hung parliament, like you know,
don't We can't rule that out, Like you know, we
could get to election day and the CLP have a
massive majority. We could get to election day and Labor
could have a surprise victory. We honestly, you know, I
don't know, I don't know, but the hung parliament possibility,
particularly when you have seats like Blaine that have been
contested by Mark Turner. You have Karama and Johnston also

(27:13):
being you know, contested by independents, So there is, like
you know, the question of whether or not there is
a hung parliament that needs to be.

Speaker 6 (27:20):
And I guess when it comes to polling, and I
do want to touch on this, it's and it might
put in in my age bracket and mister Malee's age
bracket and Keasiers. But when when gallup poles were happening
when we were growing up, you actually had some confidence
in gallup poles because people would ring your home phone
number that you would pick up your home phone that

(27:41):
doesn't tell you that it's a private number on it,
and you would you would enter into and so the
polling was somehow legitimized that because it was getting to
people that doesn't happen anymore.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Pelling That was more sort of not because what I find,
like I say, I answer, I'll pick up to every
poll right.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
That rings me.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, no worry.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
So let's have a listen to what they've got to say.

Speaker 8 (28:00):
This poles online, Well I got one. I believe it
was the CLP that sent me an online right there.

Speaker 5 (28:08):
You do what I would think, we're unusual.

Speaker 6 (28:10):
I would think the majority of people don't want their
day interrupted by any phone call coming through, and the
fact that they're coming through to mobile phones nowadays, that
actually highlight who's ringing them.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
The other thing about them, though, is they're quite leading
in direction and you can pretty.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Much get straight away.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Who's who's asking the questions when I find it really interesting.

Speaker 8 (28:29):
One of the questions that I got asked on this
poll was would you pay five hundred dollars a month
for your energy bill in exchange for a higher renewable rollout.

Speaker 5 (28:38):
And no one's yes.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Well and this is the thing.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
But look, you can tell things are tight when when
promises get made and then they get.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
Matched pretty well immediately.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
And we saw that earlier in the week with the
Southern District's football club.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Well, no matter what it seems that they're going to
be the beneficiary, Katie, they're going to win. It doesn't
matter who which side they're going to wait.

Speaker 6 (29:00):
Remembering as I said, if you look around the sporting
facilities the last four years, a lot of them, including
the Nightcliff Oval who's got their new lights, and Dan
at the Warritars and so one of the most important
things for any government going forward is to ensure kids
and our young people can access sport.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
After Actually, one of those I do want to touch
on while i've got you, Mark is the sandersm Middle School.
Now I'd spoken to the Nightcliff Dragons footy club yesterday.
They've had serious issues in fact, with the Sanders And
Middle School being vandalized quite badly because there's no bollards
at the oval there. So Nightcliffe, Nightcliff Dragons have to
use that ground for their training. They've had to cancel

(29:39):
training on more than one occasion due to vandalism there.
We're due to catch up with the chairman of the
Sanders And Middle School today. I mean, can we get
a commitment from both the parties for some bloody bollards
for the oval so that they don't end up with
people vandalizing the oval.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
I can start with that. I want to start go
back your friend's past first, all right, ultimately the silpie
come out announced that, and then I think within a
couple of hours, I labor but you did.

Speaker 5 (30:04):
This last week.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
Government elective memory. We're not in government. We don't have
the leaves to be able to pull it. Where Fred's pass,
for example, the government had eight years to do it.
They didn't do it.

Speaker 5 (30:19):
Government promise as opposite years.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
Ago, they didn't do it. This is ultimately it's about,
you know, having the leave of the government in opposition.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
So what about Sanderson Middle School?

Speaker 2 (30:28):
The CLP commit to some ballards for the school to
make sure that the grounds are safe.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
Look, I'm not sure that I'm going to go out
of limb and say yes, I'm sure expensive cooperation.

Speaker 6 (30:40):
Yes about you and as I said, in the spirit
of cooperation, as you were saying, we would all obviously
say yes. But I want to see the Steel Highway
raised by the c LP first, all the way to
to Sath, Australia.

Speaker 5 (30:51):
That's three billion dollars.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Look, I'm going to follow you both up on Santa's
Middle School because I tell you what I just I
think when you talk about young people being engaged to
good activities, when you've got a situation where you've got
more than two hundred members of the Nightcliff Dragon's Rugby
Lead Club and then they can't train because there is
you know, you've got bloody half a foot of somebody,

(31:13):
you know, some I said, these are my words yesterday
some wombat doing circle work.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
On an oval pick on the wom bat.

Speaker 6 (31:19):
No.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
I love it's you know, it's just ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
And you think if we are in a situation where
we can keep the kids safe as well when they're
at school. We also had a parent say to us
that over I don't know over what period of time,
but over a period of time that there's been a
couple of occasions where the schools had to be basically
kids have been kept in the classrooms as well, because
there's been someone on the oval in a vehicle. I
think it goes without saying that you've got to keep
everybody safe.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
Anyway, let's move along.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Actually we'll take a very quick break because there is
still so much to discuss this morning, and we have
got a bit of an update when it comes to
t NAJA.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
So we'll take a very quick break.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three
sixty if you've just joined us in the studio today,
Mark Monaghan, Thomas Morgan, Kezierpurican, Jered Mayley. Now we know
in the latest on the NAJA saga, the Australian newspaper
this morning reporting that the board of Australia's largest Aboriginal
legal service unlawfully sacked its former chief executive, Priscilla Atkins

(32:18):
after she raised serious allegations of corruption against senior members
of staff.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
That is what a federal court judge has found.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
So Judge Natalie Charlesworth on Thursday found the board of
the North Australian Aboriginal Justice Agency acted unfairly when instigating
is so called independent audit targeting Miss Atkins after she
leveled corruption allegations at their finance chief.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
Now.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
She also found that then chair Colleen Ross deliberately withheld
information from the audit which was not consistent with a
genuine desire for the audit to make fair and factual findings.
I think, no matter how you look at this, NAJA
is in heck of tr.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
More right now.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
And all the while we have got you know, territorians
needing to be represented, and I don't know whether that
is happening in the way in which it should be.

Speaker 8 (33:09):
Well, we did hear earlier this year as well that
they had to stop taking new clients in Alla Springs
because they couldn't find enough lawyers. So this organization has
been through a lot. I hope that this latest finding
is a wake up call that there needs to be
some serious, you know, serious change at the organization.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
I agree completely, and like the organization is in a
world to hurt and someone, you know, the government need
to do all that. And maybe it's going to be
the silky government in August when we get in to
come in and fix that. But but what about, by
the way, in the Northern Territory. So we need to
make feel because I want to I want to I'm

(33:49):
glad you think you're going to win. The impact has
had on the court system because these people will go
there to go. You know when I said to defend
and go to court and go I need a lawyer,
and no one's there. I hear that nado have been
flying in the State Council ajourn matters of which it
affects other people because you go to the backlog and
of course has just been delaying the.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
LA tough thing about that, I would imagine is that
if you are flying people up, I mean maybe they are,
maybe they do have good knowledge of the Northern territory,
but you do wonder whether they actually do or not,
what they know about the case, what they know about
the client, whether it is indeed the best representation then
for that person, and everybody does deserve representation with a
that's exactly right.

Speaker 7 (34:27):
But this is going to cost that organization, which is
ultimate excuse me us taxpayers around the country. It's going
to cost me a lot of money because it's the
decision has been found in favor of the pas CEO.
No doubt she will get cost awarded for her. They'll
have to pay her costs, et cetera. And then there'll
be some kind of negotiated settlement or payout so and
that will come out of nage's budget. It won't come

(34:49):
out of any other bucket or the money.

Speaker 6 (34:51):
That's right, and the bottom line is that people have
funded to deliver a particular service, to need to do
the job, and because ultimately the only people that actually
live out on that are the people they're trying to help.
And I've got no problem with whatever representation comes from anywhere,
because I actually think that the lawyers are pretty cluey
and they actually and mister Melie agrees with me with that,

(35:14):
But what and what they do is obviously get to
know the case. So I've got no problem with that.
But just do your job that your funded from.

Speaker 7 (35:22):
Well, stop playing politics if they are playing politics.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
But I think I think.

Speaker 7 (35:25):
It should give us a it should give the organization
what's left of it, a serious wake up call, because
there is clearly some serious governance issues in there, some
clear issues of quality of servers, and perhaps it goes
across the board. They're hiring practices, you know, they're training
in house practices. How they allocate lawyers to particular jobs,
I don't know how that kind of group works, but

(35:45):
there's clearly some serious issues. It needs to be looked at.
And so Hoover wins government in August, they've got to
get on the door and knock on the door of
the convalt and get it sort of bronto.

Speaker 4 (35:55):
That's what I was going to just ask is. And
I know that they're not.

Speaker 8 (35:57):
Here to provide a writer forply, but where's the federal
govern where's the federal Attorney General Mark Dreyfus and all this?
Because this is a federally funded organization.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
Yep.

Speaker 8 (36:05):
You know, the Commonwealth ultimately is responsible for how it's operating,
and if it's not operating to a standard that is
sufficient for what it's there for, then serious questions need
to be asked about how what it looks like going forward,
and the federal government probably has to be And I'd be,
you know, of Chancey Paik, we're here to answer questions.
I'd be asking him what sort of representations have you

(36:28):
made to Cander about what you know the future of
this organization and does there need to be a change?

Speaker 6 (36:33):
Absolutely no, I expect that he'd actually do this to
ensure as I said, because obviously the Feds do pay
for it. They have an expectation of what they're getting
when they pay this amount of money, and the administration
of it obviously sits under Chancey Pai Beker's the Attorney
General to ensure that that's slipper and there are serious
issues going on here that need to be addressed.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Look, we are going to take a really quick break.
You're listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.
It is the week it was before we go though.
A couple of things to still cover off on this morning.
We know that well, the Darwin City Council issued quite
a lengthy statement earlier in the week about well that
wanting to clarify recent commentary relating to commemorative activities for

(37:17):
the fiftieth anniversary of Cyclone Tracy the City of Darwin
releasing the design of a kinetic structure, which they've formally
referred to as a monument. They're now wanting to talk
about it as a kinetic sculpture. It's going to be
installed of course at Bundilla Beach Reserve. The color is
changing slightly and I guess they're hoping to what, Well,

(37:38):
no idea at this point in time, No idea at
this point in time, All the while, the discussion continues
to rage on from Cyclone Tracy survivors Katie, Katie, I.

Speaker 7 (37:52):
Went through Cyclone Tracy, so could call a survivor. I'm
not traumatized by high winds and so I did get
his when Marcus came through. But I know my mother
has memories because because she was the mother and she
had children, she had to look after, et cetera. But
I know there, and I've got constituents and Jered Ward
know people. There are people who are severely traumatized because
they either know someone who died, or they lost a

(38:14):
loved one, or they just had the living Bejesus skid
out them. So you know, it is a very serious
moment and a serious memory for a lot of those people.
And I can't believe, Well, I mean, what was the council.
This is not just the mayor combats cars. The whole
council voted for this. So what were they thinking? Did
they presume they did some resource, did some perhaps focus
groups or whatever? I mean? And why didn't they put

(38:36):
it out to why didn't they put it out to
like a competition, Because.

Speaker 8 (38:39):
They always comes back to consultation with these sorts of things.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Especially with something like the fiftieth adversary, because I don't
think anything that they've done, I think they've done everything
in good faith. I don't think that they agree that
they thought that this was going to blow up in
the way that it did. But I guess even for me,
it was a bit of an educational situation for me
over the life couple of weeks on air, because to
begin with, when.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
I'd heard about it, I thought, oh, yeah, right, no worries.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
You know, they're putting a sculpture up, or they're planning
a sculpture there at Bundilla.

Speaker 7 (39:07):
Beach, but using to something there and something well.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
But then also after you listen to different territories who've
lived through Cyclone tracy whether they have found traumatic that's right,
and what it means to them this fiftieth anniversary and
commemorating it appropriately, and you two.

Speaker 7 (39:24):
Come thirteen thousand people were evacuated just on thirty thousand
people over the three or four days, so I think
the town they had about fifty thousand give or take.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Now, yes we lost sixty seventish or whatever people.

Speaker 7 (39:36):
So they died, but when you see the photos, there
was nothing left of hundreds of thousands or thousands of houses.
So all those people you know, went downstairs or hit
in their cars or whatever they did. Now, that in
itself is traumatizing. And of course a lot of people
have died in cyclone, Tracy, I get that, left town, etc.
But the ones that are here is probably about five

(39:56):
ten percent of our population, give or tape. That's a statistician,
that not me. And you know, it's just that they're
just out of touch, you dancing your counsels. That's the
tragedy that this whole thing.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
And we spoke to mc palmer about it a couple
of days ago and he said, you know, Katie, i'mus
like he's you know, he lived through it, and he,
you know, he thinks it's a good thing. That the
other counselors obviously voted for it as well. We've spoken
to Brian o' gallagher. He had sort of different you know,
he had a different idea.

Speaker 6 (40:23):
And Caddie like my own fam, my ice family. She
tells the story of her home blowing away, the stairs
blowing the way, and her mother, who was six months
pregnant with her jumping off the first floor into her
father's up very romantic sort of setting, but scary. As
as I said, they've lived through it, and I think

(40:44):
the most important thing because when you come to art,
people's appreciation of artistic in this way is always going
to be polarizing. You'll either love it, and I think
the good thing about it is having a debate on it.
Having committed, but this debate that should have been part
of the consultation that led to an appropriate outcome because
to me, the most important thing that goes from this

(41:05):
fiftieth anniversary, and I wasn't here when it happened, but
as I said, my wife and her family were, is
the narratives, the stories of the people were here need
to live on. Yeah, that's the most thing.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
I just think the council can do better. Territorians are talking,
they need to listen and changing the color doesn't cut
it for me.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
You know.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
They need to go back and look at it and go, Okay,
we've had this consultation. Whatever it was obviously needs more
of it, and the council can do better. And I
think territorians asking to have this.

Speaker 8 (41:32):
Debate better before the design has landed on the first
that many of us had ever heard that this you know,
was happening. Yep, was when council released the design and
there was a blow up about it.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
We're calling it a mango tree fillopian tubes.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
I saw somebody at photoshop combat Scarlus's face onto all
of the different sort of you know, like, you know,
this is the thing.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
People would just say, drop beers. I did someone photoshop huge,
but like this is the thing.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
You know, these discussions and I totally understand that everybody's
going to view art in a different way. But I
think what I've really you know, what I've learned over
the last couple of weeks is this is something that
people are incredibly passionate about. It doesn't look like the
Council is going to change their mind on this. It
looks as though they are forging.

Speaker 7 (42:20):
I reckon, this hasn't been built. Okay, the contract's locked
in with the artist. That's fine, but surely they can
go back to the artist and say, look, we need
to have a little rethink about this and a little
bit of talk about because.

Speaker 6 (42:31):
And the other point, Katie, again, they've received money from
the Conworth. It needs to be spent in line with
what that application, that grant was and because we've been
talking about that all.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
Day to day and and that's and that's exactly right.
And so the pressure lease that had come out at
the time had said that it did need to be
in connection with Cyclone Tracy. So but look, before we
wrap up Territory Day on Monday, I've got the day
off the Territory Day.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
To blow Oh yeah, I'm just going to start at
nine o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
Now, No, I'm definitely not. I think people are pretty please.
That are the major celebrations for Territory Day. Obviously at
at Mindle Beach, It's going to be a busy one,
no doubt.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
I'm looking forward to it. I'm going to put my
horses away, my dogs away. My dog is like really
freaked out, so I've got some medicine from the vet
just to help him get through it. And I'm going
to blow stuff up.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
I am, That's what That's what blokes do.

Speaker 8 (43:21):
I'll have my helmet on, my kevlar best and I'll
head down to Nightcliff Beach. And it's always well, yeah,
I could have a little press sticker on or something.

Speaker 4 (43:30):
It's just always good time.

Speaker 5 (43:31):
It's the greatest day of the year.

Speaker 6 (43:33):
Just keep it safe and be mindful of others.

Speaker 7 (43:35):
And just make sure if you do have dogs, and
because you never know, especially older dogs, they do tend
to get spook, so go to the vet.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
There's lots of things that can just help bring them
down a bit.

Speaker 7 (43:44):
And also pressure not pressure bandages, but you can have
pressure jackets that you put around dogs mid rifts as well.
But bets continell you about that. Well, you can just
improvise with us. And last year, please don't take your
dog to the not young people. I've seen people take
their dogs tonight with beach.

Speaker 6 (44:01):
Okay, just another top overnight. That's why it looks so tired.
Four AM and New York Stock Exchange tambour and launched
onto this. They listed about twenty one dollars US a
share I think it is, and we saw Joel they're
ringing the bell, which was fantastic. So great for the
territory downfall, Joel Riddle, can you right.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
News, what's that mean for the territory? In your eyes,
that's what that means for the territories.

Speaker 6 (44:29):
They can raise capital to get the gas flowing, to
bring the money into the territory that pays for everything
that we need.

Speaker 7 (44:35):
Here and they might in due course list on the
Australian Stock Exchange.

Speaker 5 (44:38):
That's right.

Speaker 7 (44:39):
But also it's the Lichfield or Spectacular this weekend.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Wonderful.

Speaker 7 (44:43):
Yeah, not just orchards, all sorts of other plants, coladiums,
really as, etcetera, etcetera, that you can purchase, cup of teas, coffees. Great,
it's just it's a lovely experience. Just go and look
at the beautiful plants.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
Yeah. The flowers are beautiful.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
Yeah, they are definitely. Don't give me one because I
will not be able to keep for a life.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
I'm not very good. I'm not much of a green thumb.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Markhan, thank you very much for your time this morning.
Of course our labor representative, Minister for Education and other
thank you you too. Thomas Morgan, political reporter for the ABC,
Thank you as always for your time today.

Speaker 4 (45:16):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Katie Kezier pure Thanks Katie, outgoing independent member for Goider
but always a political commentator for us here on Mix.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Jared Mailey, the Member for Nelson and shadow Minister and Deputy.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
God visionally.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
Exactly exactly you're listening to Mix one O four nine's
three sixty.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
That was the week that was