Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
As we have been reporting, the Northern Territory Police Commissioner
Michael Murphy has publicly apologized to Indigenous Territorians for harms
and injustices caused by the force over the past one
hundred and fifty four years of policing. The Commissioner delivered
the apology at the Garma Festival on Saturday, and as
we heard on the show yesterday, there's been mixed reactions
(00:22):
to that apology and the timing behind it. The Police
Minister yesterday confirmed that he was aware that the commissioners
of the Police Commissioner's plans about a week ago, but
denied any political interference. The Northern Territory Police Commissioner Michael
Murphy joins me in the studio. Good morning to your commissioner, Good.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Morning Katie, Good morning to all your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. I appreciate
you joining us in the studio. Now, why did you
decide to make this apology at the Garma Festival on Saturday?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I had to acknowledge the past. This has been really
a discussion that's come to light since twenty nineteen, since
the death of Commenji Walk. But it's been on my
mind since we created the one hundred and fifty year
Book for policing too, when you look back at the
history and can I just start by saying that police
do an incredibly hard job and we have tremendous officers
(01:13):
around the territory, men and women every day who work
incredibly hard to serve and protect the territory. That's acknowledged,
and I'm not taking away or diminishing any of the
good work they do. What we do need to acknowledge
is we have a history. We have a history where
there's been massacres. We've implemented policies on behalf of governments
that have been half full, the Stolen Generation, the intervention
(01:36):
that caused hir incarceration rates. That's reflected in Closing the
Gap as well about that work. So this is an
incredibly important part in time to acknowledge the past and
move forward. And we've got thirty one percent Indigenous Australians
Aboriginal territories across the territory who represent a large proportion
(01:57):
of crime and over ninety percent of mens incarceration rates
in the jail, so we have to do something differently.
This is the right thing to do. It's about changing thinking.
I acknowledge, is it struck disruptive? When is the right
time to do this?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Well, I guess many would argue the right time isn't
three weeks out from an election, when the government's gone
into caretaker mode. And that is why people are questioning
whether this was political. Was there any discussions with the
Police Minister or with the Chief Minister about when this
was going to happen.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
So the government is in caretaker mode, the Commissioner of
Police is not. I've got a job to do. I
need to be progressive. Garma was a really good place
to do that around an audience. It was impactful, it
was a wide reach. We considered nadok. I didn't think already,
you know, I've got to It's really uncomfortable because when
(02:48):
is when? Am I ready? But what we've got to
do is the important work and this is the start
of a journey. And I need the police officers, I
need the community, and I need Aboriginal leaders to come
within me to make a difference. I'm not the solution.
The Northern Territory Police isn't the solution about making the
community safer, and that's the long term goal and it's
all about Sorry, Katie.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yeah, so I was just going to ask you.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I mean, in terms of discussions that have been had
with the with the Police Minister. He'd confirmed on the
show yesterday that you guys had had a discussion about
a week ago.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah. Absolutely, I've told the Police Minister that I intended
to do a speech.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
So it wasn't a should I do it, It was
a I am doing it.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I was doing it, and I made that really clear
to the minister. There is absolutely no political interference, you know,
out of just basic courtesy. I've let the Police Minister
know I think it's really important, Like I prefer to
tell the Police Minister then him read it on the
front page of the paper.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Did you think to yourself or this might be seen
as being political because we are now in caretaking.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Mite, not really like I'm just I'm getting on with
the job. You know. I'm alive to the fact there
are are caretake there's an election coming up, but I
can't stop policing or of being the Commissioner of Police
for four weeks leading into election. I'm still got a
responsibility as CEO and the Commissioner to keep doing police
work and do everything we can to protect territorians and
keep the community safe and that you know, I've got
(04:13):
to be strategic as well. So this is about we're
trying to recruit Aboriginal territories into the ranks. We will
see that make a difference. We're currently sitting at twelve
percent Indigenous representation in the ranks. We need to get
to thirty percent. That's only the basic we're representing the
community and that's a basis of policing. When people look
at the uniform and the police officers, they need to
see themselves and that's about trust, confidence and legitimacy, and
(04:35):
that's where we need to get to.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Look.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Many people contacted as yesterday and questioned why you felt
the need to make the apology after publicly saying that
you do not believe that there is systemic racism within
the force.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, I think the racism and this is part of
the work that needs to be done. So I don't
think everyone has a real good grasp about what racism
looks like. You know, I'm on a learning curve too.
It's about individual racism. It could be personal, it could
be organizational as systemic. There are systems, there are policies
and the more we look and the more I speak
to people, and the more I'm learning about it, I
(05:09):
think we have room for improvement, a lot of room
for improvement and change. Talking to the Aboriginal Social Justice Commissioner,
talking to the Human Rights Commissioner, I mean that is
their bread and butter, and hearing their insights and the
way we can adjust, and it needs to be progressive,
but it needs to be bringing the workforce with us
as well. It can't be. You know, this speech is
the beginning of a journey and there will be many
(05:31):
things coming about education in the college, across our commissioner cohort,
letting the Anti discrimination Commissioner come and look at positive
duty in our workplace where actually legislative we're obliged to
deliver that. Having the Aboriginal Justice Agreement, I've written to
them say the doors open, come and help us and look.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I think a large body of that work is incredibly
important work. I would never I'm certainly not trying to
distract from that in any way, shape or form. I
guess the main concerns that have been raised with us
is really around that timing and some of the reasoning
behind it. We know it was also revealed in the
coronial inquest that those awards had been raised with you,
(06:12):
and you didn't investigate that.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
At the time that a former officer had raised it.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
So those those that's very much awards, you know that
everybody everybody is now aware of. Now, I guess some
this morning you're going to be asking if they can
trust the apology when you didn't follow up on those concerns.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah. Look, I have to own that. You know, I
didn't do what I was supposed to do, and I
should have reported at the earliest opportunity, and I didn't
left my mind. I've given testimony before her honor in
the coronial process. I'm alive for that too. So I
probably won't go too much into that because that coronial
inquest is still open and it's you know, scheduled for
more hearings later this year. But I have to acknowledge that.
(06:52):
I'm not trying to not say I didn't do that. Yes,
it was a mistake and error and I've learned from that.
But what's really important and what's come to light since
then through the awards and other evidence given by officers
and other events across the Northern Territory Police force is
I have to do something. You know, when you look
and when we can look at the last seven months,
eight months, we can look at the last one hundred
(07:12):
and fifty four years, we have to change our thinking
to future proof of the police force. And we've got
a really big opportunity to do that with a five
hundred and seventy million dollar investment from government to actually
reform a lot of our work.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
And you obviously feel that this apology is pivotal in
terms of being able to move forward and deal with
the issues that we've got with crime and some of
the indigenous issues that we've got in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Absolutely instrumental. I've had that many messages from corporate sector,
from industry, from Aborginal leaders throughout Australia about you know,
taking the next step and this is about I go
keep going back to the hearts and mind stuff. The
police force needs the trust of the community. It needs
the confidence of the community police by consent. This is
(07:57):
this is a step and you know, mentioning my speech,
it's the ability to be open to criticism and this
is a good discussion and it's a narrative and it's
one that we need to have.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Well, yeah, it is absolutely a discussion that needs to
be had, and I appreciate that you're having it with
me this morning. But I guess there's a lot of
police officers that listen to this show. And I know
that the Northern Territory Police Association issued their statement obviously
over the weekend saying that they acknowledge the apology speech
delivered by yourself. But the acting president, Lisa Bayless, had
(08:28):
said that it is important to confront, acknowledge and learn
from the past without letting it define the Northern Territory Police.
She said, it's disappointing that the Commissioner did not communicate
the content the intent directly with the membership well in
advance of his speech. In fact, the speech in its
entirety was sent to the media before the membership. She said,
(08:50):
it's also not the role of police to assess the
success or otherwise of federal government directed policies of closing
the gap the stolen generation and the interview as the
Commissioner is done, Now, what did you make of that
statement from the Police Association?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
So, just to step through a couple of things that
was communicated throughout the day, I've sent a message to
the president and the previous day a letter went out
in the morning on the Saturday to the acting President.
There were copies sent out to media and out on
the ground there and that's not uncommon practice to send
things out and embargo them. And then the message was
sent out to the workforce that afternoon.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
So you're saying you did communicate.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
That with them, Well, my corporate manager for Comms did, yes,
but it was agreed to that they'd go out and embargoed.
So I think that there was a couple of points
you made there about the speech going out. Then the
next part was the second part.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Of the question they came so she'd had I was
just reading the statement where she'd said, you know that
it's not actually the job of the police commissioner.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
That's about it. Absolutely is my job to comment on
matters impacting the police force and operations. So the stolen generation,
the intervention absolutely impacted upon the police force. We've seen
the disadvantage, the disempowerment, the disenfranchised community that we see
come into our domestic violence, youth crime, road crashes. It
(10:15):
absolutely impacts policing. We have, sadly breaking new records every
week in the jails because we're locking people up. That's
not the answer. So you know, policy decisions from two
thousand and seven have definitely impacted upon policing.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
So why did you consult with the Police Minister but
not speak to the association? I guess is the big
question here.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
So I didn't consult with the police Minister. I informed
him I was doing a speech and the basis of it,
and he obviously was aware of it. I haven't emailed
him the speech, so I mean, it's just a basic courtesy,
Like I.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Said, So, why did you resign from the Police Association?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Well, I think I was incredibly disappointed by the reaction
of the swift reaction without probably considering the bigger picture
and the importance of where we need to go. I
think it wasn't progressive. I don't agree with the values.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
So part of it, I suppose were you most concerned
about what, like what part of the statement that you
know that they issued were you most worried about?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I think that you know, everyone I spoke to, we're
welcoming the acknowledgment and where we need to go to.
I just don't think an appropriate appreciation. You know, they
represent nine A per cent of the police force. But
you know, like the people I've spoken to, no one's
come up to me and I've asked them, you know,
(11:38):
how do you feel about this? You know, everyone's pretty
good with it, you know that is but it is disruptive.
I acknowledge that it's a big step.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
How do you like, how are you now going to
take the force on the journey with you? If you've
got the association. They've sent this statement out. You know,
they'd said that one of their concerns is that Indigenous.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Like that, you know that we've got a situation.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
They say, where where the Indigenous members of the FOCE.
Essentially if they are an AGPO, that they're not able
to progress through the ranks. You know, they can only
progress to senior ag pos. So they've raised that concern
that there's not a clear pathway for Indigenous people. So
I guess the point that they're also making in that
(12:17):
statement is that, you know, to apologize and to make
a grand statement is very different to providing opportunity to
some of those Indigenous members.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
So the statement I made and I've highlighted isn't going
to be broken promises or shallow words from a white
police officer. It's about tangil outcomes and about measuring that.
I bought Miss lean Littled in to help me with
the reform work. She's an incredibly respected Central arunder woman
who's a previous police officer in South Australia, a lawyer
and Australia of the Year, incredibly networked and she's going
(12:50):
to help me reform some of the thinking. But we
have to bring the agency with us now. There's a
number of steps we'll undertake. So about the recruitment, We've
got to challenge how we recruit people and what barriers
we have in place as far as language and the like.
The fact that I'm really invested in our people and
their leadership and their pathways. We're seeing attrition drop to
lower levels, back to two thousand and nine and about
(13:11):
nine percent, which is really pleasing. We've got an incredibly
aggressive recruitment campaign thanks to the five hundred and seventy million,
but we have to bring people in. We need to
invest in people's leadership across the police force and that's
basically setting the steps up. We're working on our corporate plan,
We're working on the anti racism strategy that'll be communicated
(13:32):
more broadly, and I keep saying it's going to be
co designed and co owned to the workforce. We're going
to have a traveling party across the territory looking at
the plan and looking at the review team and how
they're involved in it, and what the recruitment space looks like.
So it's about the communication, the engagement. And can I
just say that even though I've resigned my position from
(13:52):
the Northern Territory Police Association, I'll continue to work incredibly
hard with them with the best interests of our membership
in mind, and continue to support their operations and functions.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
So how come you sort of decided to resign? You
were obviously disapported with that statement, But you know, like,
are you going to be able to work quite as
closely with them as what you have following on from that?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Absolutely? I think you know this is this is big.
There's a lot of important work the Northern Territory of
Police Association does. There are times and you know, whilst
you know it's been reported that maybe we don't disagree
as much as we should, we actually do have robust discussions,
will continue a good relationship and do everything we can
for the best interest in our officers. That is an
(14:34):
undertaking I gave when I became Nikeshna.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
And what do you say to those officers who are
listening this morning, who are you know who who are
feeling as though this is maybe a grand statement.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
But it's.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
You know, it's words rather than their meaningful action.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, we'll translate that into action. I have to. I'm
accountable and it will be put measures in place. And
you know, Katie, one of my positives is unaccessible any
of our officers who would like to talk to me.
Most people have got my phone number, send me an email.
I'm happy to talk to you. I'm happy to take
the time to travel to you and talk to you.
(15:13):
It's really hard, you know. That's where I rely really
heavily on my executive and that's been newly formed and established.
We've got a new renewed team. But the spanner control
on access and messaging to our workforce is incredibly important.
And that's another undertaking we need to do is make
sure that people know what's going on and they piloted
as well. So but if anyone that's you know, that
(15:33):
upset about it, please, you know, be courageous, make an
effort and.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Ring me, Commissioner, just a couple of quick ones before
I let you go.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
I'm mindful of time.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
But in all of the coverage over the weekend, there
was a line from that speech which had listeners contact
me over the weekend after reading it in the article.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Online on the ABC.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
And it's the part where you say, one police are
routinely tasked with enforcing policies, laws, and regular relations both
federal and here in the Northern Territory that are often
influenced by media coverage of crime, victims and community safety,
regardless of data, evidence and expert advice. Now it's a
victim of crime who's been in contact with me about
(16:15):
that and said, I don't understand what he's trying to
say there. We've been told that you know that the
rates of crime are going up. I mean we can
all like, we can all see that, and why wouldn't
victims be part of you know, the way in which
decisions are made.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, No, absolutely, I think what I was trying to
point to there is we've had such a changing environment
in the media space, and when you have a hazard
and the outrage, the outrage doesn't dissipate that hazard. May,
I'm in no way trying to victim blame here. I
have a lot of empathy for victims and what they're
going through. And yes, we have really high crime rates.
(16:53):
They haven't abated. I acknowledge that we've got to work
incredibly hard to address the crime rates. So domestic vice,
the house break ins, what people getting their second most
valuable asset they're castolen, and the inconvenience attached to it.
You know, we're working really hard our offices every day.
You just have to look at the court system and
the correctional facilities. But you know, we've got a lot
(17:14):
of work to do because this is the point. We
can't keep doing the same thing because we're not getting
different results.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
So what do you say to victims of crime who
are listening this morning, who feel as though you've minimized
their concerns with that line in that speech.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I'm not trying to minimize how victims of crime feel.
Absolutely I'm not, and that's not my intent, And I'm
sorry you're a victim of crime and old work with
my team incredibly hard to ensure you don't become a
further victim of crime.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Now, look, final question this morning, what do you say
to anyone listening this morning who maybe feels that you're
more interested in a grand gesture rather than really sorting
the issues with not only racism but also with crime
and morale in the force.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, I'd have to say morale has actually improved a lot.
It's a bit of a myth about our morale is
so bad. It's actually really good, and we've got really
good officers working incredibly hard. But the problem is they
are working hard, and they're working tirelessly and long hours
and they're exhausted. So we need to flip it and
instead of being reactive and responsive, we need to be
(18:23):
proactive and engaging. And that's that community policing model. So
I think that please. I know there's a lot of uncertainty,
it's ambiguous. It's a big move, but it's going to
be a really important move, and hopefully we can see
the change over coming years because this is going to
be you know, it's not just a policing issue. This
is a whole of government, this is non government agencies,
(18:45):
this is the community. And I need Aboriginal territory and
showing leadership to stop what is that this stuff we're
seeing in our community is not normal and we cannot
con can no longer accept it.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
No, it's truly not.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I mean even this morning, driving into work, I was
near the the Stuart Park shops there and I'm sure
that people would have called the police because there was
a lot of cars around, but there was a man
dragging a woman onto the road and you know, like
it was clearly a domestic violence incident. And unfortunately, you know,
I've been at that same intersection about three times where
(19:18):
I've seen similar incidents in the last few months. You know,
some of what we're seeing around the Northern Territory right now,
it's sad, it's unacceptable, and you know the incidents that
we're seeing as well are incredibly violent in some cases.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, and look, it's some really deep issues here about homelessness,
vulnerable people who are sleeping rough who have come into town.
And that's the incredible work that the Territory Safety Coordination
Center's doing with patrollers as well on Laroche a Nation
in Darwin to see what the problem profile looks like
and accommodate people back home or put them in places
of safety. And that's where fundamentally the discussions are around
(19:58):
the important stuff is that will stop least seeing people
these types of offenses. You see, it's about education, it's
about housing, it's about health, and it's about jobs. It's
about having a purpose so people don't make poor choices
and end up incarcerated and addicted to substances.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Well, Police Commissioner Michael Murphy, we are going to have
to leave it there. Appreciate your time this morning. Thank
you very much for joining us on the show.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Thanks Katie, thank you.
As we have been reporting, the Northern Territory Police Commissioner
Michael Murphy has publicly apologized to Indigenous Territorians for harms
and injustices caused by the force over the past one
hundred and fifty four years of policing. The Commissioner delivered
the apology at the Garma Festival on Saturday, and as
we heard on the show yesterday, there's been mixed reactions
(00:22):
to that apology and the timing behind it. The Police
Minister yesterday confirmed that he was aware that the commissioners
of the Police Commissioner's plans about a week ago, but
denied any political interference. The Northern Territory Police Commissioner Michael
Murphy joins me in the studio. Good morning to your commissioner, Good.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Morning Katie, Good morning to all your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. I appreciate
you joining us in the studio. Now, why did you
decide to make this apology at the Garma Festival on Saturday?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I had to acknowledge the past. This has been really
a discussion that's come to light since twenty nineteen, since
the death of Commenji Walk. But it's been on my
mind since we created the one hundred and fifty year
Book for policing too, when you look back at the
history and can I just start by saying that police
do an incredibly hard job and we have tremendous officers
(01:13):
around the territory, men and women every day who work
incredibly hard to serve and protect the territory. That's acknowledged,
and I'm not taking away or diminishing any of the
good work they do. What we do need to acknowledge
is we have a history. We have a history where
there's been massacres. We've implemented policies on behalf of governments
that have been half full, the Stolen Generation, the intervention
(01:36):
that caused hir incarceration rates. That's reflected in Closing the
Gap as well about that work. So this is an
incredibly important part in time to acknowledge the past and
move forward. And we've got thirty one percent Indigenous Australians
Aboriginal territories across the territory who represent a large proportion
(01:57):
of crime and over ninety percent of mens incarceration rates
in the jail, so we have to do something differently.
This is the right thing to do. It's about changing thinking.
I acknowledge, is it struck disruptive? When is the right
time to do this?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Well, I guess many would argue the right time isn't
three weeks out from an election, when the government's gone
into caretaker mode. And that is why people are questioning
whether this was political. Was there any discussions with the
Police Minister or with the Chief Minister about when this
was going to happen.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
So the government is in caretaker mode, the Commissioner of
Police is not. I've got a job to do. I
need to be progressive. Garma was a really good place
to do that around an audience. It was impactful, it
was a wide reach. We considered nadok. I didn't think already,
you know, I've got to It's really uncomfortable because when
(02:48):
is when? Am I ready? But what we've got to
do is the important work and this is the start
of a journey. And I need the police officers, I
need the community, and I need Aboriginal leaders to come
within me to make a difference. I'm not the solution.
The Northern Territory Police isn't the solution about making the
community safer, and that's the long term goal and it's
all about Sorry, Katie.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yeah, so I was just going to ask you.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I mean, in terms of discussions that have been had
with the with the Police Minister. He'd confirmed on the
show yesterday that you guys had had a discussion about
a week ago.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah. Absolutely, I've told the Police Minister that I intended
to do a speech.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
So it wasn't a should I do it, It was
a I am doing it.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I was doing it, and I made that really clear
to the minister. There is absolutely no political interference, you know,
out of just basic courtesy. I've let the Police Minister
know I think it's really important, Like I prefer to
tell the Police Minister then him read it on the
front page of the paper.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Did you think to yourself or this might be seen
as being political because we are now in caretaking.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Mite, not really like I'm just I'm getting on with
the job. You know. I'm alive to the fact there
are are caretake there's an election coming up, but I
can't stop policing or of being the Commissioner of Police
for four weeks leading into election. I'm still got a
responsibility as CEO and the Commissioner to keep doing police
work and do everything we can to protect territorians and
keep the community safe and that you know, I've got
(04:13):
to be strategic as well. So this is about we're
trying to recruit Aboriginal territories into the ranks. We will
see that make a difference. We're currently sitting at twelve
percent Indigenous representation in the ranks. We need to get
to thirty percent. That's only the basic we're representing the
community and that's a basis of policing. When people look
at the uniform and the police officers, they need to
see themselves and that's about trust, confidence and legitimacy, and
(04:35):
that's where we need to get to.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Look.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Many people contacted as yesterday and questioned why you felt
the need to make the apology after publicly saying that
you do not believe that there is systemic racism within
the force.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, I think the racism and this is part of
the work that needs to be done. So I don't
think everyone has a real good grasp about what racism
looks like. You know, I'm on a learning curve too.
It's about individual racism. It could be personal, it could
be organizational as systemic. There are systems, there are policies
and the more we look and the more I speak
to people, and the more I'm learning about it, I
(05:09):
think we have room for improvement, a lot of room
for improvement and change. Talking to the Aboriginal Social Justice Commissioner,
talking to the Human Rights Commissioner, I mean that is
their bread and butter, and hearing their insights and the
way we can adjust, and it needs to be progressive,
but it needs to be bringing the workforce with us
as well. It can't be. You know, this speech is
the beginning of a journey and there will be many
(05:31):
things coming about education in the college, across our commissioner cohort,
letting the Anti discrimination Commissioner come and look at positive
duty in our workplace where actually legislative we're obliged to
deliver that. Having the Aboriginal Justice Agreement, I've written to
them say the doors open, come and help us and look.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I think a large body of that work is incredibly
important work. I would never I'm certainly not trying to
distract from that in any way, shape or form. I
guess the main concerns that have been raised with us
is really around that timing and some of the reasoning
behind it. We know it was also revealed in the
coronial inquest that those awards had been raised with you,
(06:12):
and you didn't investigate that.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
At the time that a former officer had raised it.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
So those those that's very much awards, you know that
everybody everybody is now aware of. Now, I guess some
this morning you're going to be asking if they can
trust the apology when you didn't follow up on those concerns.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah. Look, I have to own that. You know, I
didn't do what I was supposed to do, and I
should have reported at the earliest opportunity, and I didn't
left my mind. I've given testimony before her honor in
the coronial process. I'm alive for that too. So I
probably won't go too much into that because that coronial
inquest is still open and it's you know, scheduled for
more hearings later this year. But I have to acknowledge that.
(06:52):
I'm not trying to not say I didn't do that. Yes,
it was a mistake and error and I've learned from that.
But what's really important and what's come to light since
then through the awards and other evidence given by officers
and other events across the Northern Territory Police force is
I have to do something. You know, when you look
and when we can look at the last seven months,
eight months, we can look at the last one hundred
(07:12):
and fifty four years, we have to change our thinking
to future proof of the police force. And we've got
a really big opportunity to do that with a five
hundred and seventy million dollar investment from government to actually
reform a lot of our work.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
And you obviously feel that this apology is pivotal in
terms of being able to move forward and deal with
the issues that we've got with crime and some of
the indigenous issues that we've got in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Absolutely instrumental. I've had that many messages from corporate sector,
from industry, from Aborginal leaders throughout Australia about you know,
taking the next step and this is about I go
keep going back to the hearts and mind stuff. The
police force needs the trust of the community. It needs
the confidence of the community police by consent. This is
(07:57):
this is a step and you know, mentioning my speech,
it's the ability to be open to criticism and this
is a good discussion and it's a narrative and it's
one that we need to have.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Well, yeah, it is absolutely a discussion that needs to
be had, and I appreciate that you're having it with
me this morning. But I guess there's a lot of
police officers that listen to this show. And I know
that the Northern Territory Police Association issued their statement obviously
over the weekend saying that they acknowledge the apology speech
delivered by yourself. But the acting president, Lisa Bayless, had
(08:28):
said that it is important to confront, acknowledge and learn
from the past without letting it define the Northern Territory Police.
She said, it's disappointing that the Commissioner did not communicate
the content the intent directly with the membership well in
advance of his speech. In fact, the speech in its
entirety was sent to the media before the membership. She said,
(08:50):
it's also not the role of police to assess the
success or otherwise of federal government directed policies of closing
the gap the stolen generation and the interview as the
Commissioner is done, Now, what did you make of that
statement from the Police Association?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
So, just to step through a couple of things that
was communicated throughout the day, I've sent a message to
the president and the previous day a letter went out
in the morning on the Saturday to the acting President.
There were copies sent out to media and out on
the ground there and that's not uncommon practice to send
things out and embargo them. And then the message was
sent out to the workforce that afternoon.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
So you're saying you did communicate.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
That with them, Well, my corporate manager for Comms did, yes,
but it was agreed to that they'd go out and embargoed.
So I think that there was a couple of points
you made there about the speech going out. Then the
next part was the second part.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Of the question they came so she'd had I was
just reading the statement where she'd said, you know that
it's not actually the job of the police commissioner.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
That's about it. Absolutely is my job to comment on
matters impacting the police force and operations. So the stolen generation,
the intervention absolutely impacted upon the police force. We've seen
the disadvantage, the disempowerment, the disenfranchised community that we see
come into our domestic violence, youth crime, road crashes. It
(10:15):
absolutely impacts policing. We have, sadly breaking new records every
week in the jails because we're locking people up. That's
not the answer. So you know, policy decisions from two
thousand and seven have definitely impacted upon policing.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
So why did you consult with the Police Minister but
not speak to the association? I guess is the big
question here.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
So I didn't consult with the police Minister. I informed
him I was doing a speech and the basis of it,
and he obviously was aware of it. I haven't emailed
him the speech, so I mean, it's just a basic courtesy,
Like I.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Said, So, why did you resign from the Police Association?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Well, I think I was incredibly disappointed by the reaction
of the swift reaction without probably considering the bigger picture
and the importance of where we need to go. I
think it wasn't progressive. I don't agree with the values.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
So part of it, I suppose were you most concerned
about what, like what part of the statement that you
know that they issued were you most worried about?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I think that you know, everyone I spoke to, we're
welcoming the acknowledgment and where we need to go to.
I just don't think an appropriate appreciation. You know, they
represent nine A per cent of the police force. But
you know, like the people I've spoken to, no one's
come up to me and I've asked them, you know,
(11:38):
how do you feel about this? You know, everyone's pretty
good with it, you know that is but it is disruptive.
I acknowledge that it's a big step.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
How do you like, how are you now going to
take the force on the journey with you? If you've
got the association. They've sent this statement out. You know,
they'd said that one of their concerns is that Indigenous.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Like that, you know that we've got a situation.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
They say, where where the Indigenous members of the FOCE.
Essentially if they are an AGPO, that they're not able
to progress through the ranks. You know, they can only
progress to senior ag pos. So they've raised that concern
that there's not a clear pathway for Indigenous people. So
I guess the point that they're also making in that
(12:17):
statement is that, you know, to apologize and to make
a grand statement is very different to providing opportunity to
some of those Indigenous members.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
So the statement I made and I've highlighted isn't going
to be broken promises or shallow words from a white
police officer. It's about tangil outcomes and about measuring that.
I bought Miss lean Littled in to help me with
the reform work. She's an incredibly respected Central arunder woman
who's a previous police officer in South Australia, a lawyer
and Australia of the Year, incredibly networked and she's going
(12:50):
to help me reform some of the thinking. But we
have to bring the agency with us now. There's a
number of steps we'll undertake. So about the recruitment, We've
got to challenge how we recruit people and what barriers
we have in place as far as language and the like.
The fact that I'm really invested in our people and
their leadership and their pathways. We're seeing attrition drop to
lower levels, back to two thousand and nine and about
(13:11):
nine percent, which is really pleasing. We've got an incredibly
aggressive recruitment campaign thanks to the five hundred and seventy million,
but we have to bring people in. We need to
invest in people's leadership across the police force and that's
basically setting the steps up. We're working on our corporate plan,
We're working on the anti racism strategy that'll be communicated
(13:32):
more broadly, and I keep saying it's going to be
co designed and co owned to the workforce. We're going
to have a traveling party across the territory looking at
the plan and looking at the review team and how
they're involved in it, and what the recruitment space looks like.
So it's about the communication, the engagement. And can I
just say that even though I've resigned my position from
(13:52):
the Northern Territory Police Association, I'll continue to work incredibly
hard with them with the best interests of our membership
in mind, and continue to support their operations and functions.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
So how come you sort of decided to resign? You
were obviously disapported with that statement, But you know, like,
are you going to be able to work quite as
closely with them as what you have following on from that?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Absolutely? I think you know this is this is big.
There's a lot of important work the Northern Territory of
Police Association does. There are times and you know, whilst
you know it's been reported that maybe we don't disagree
as much as we should, we actually do have robust discussions,
will continue a good relationship and do everything we can
for the best interest in our officers. That is an
(14:34):
undertaking I gave when I became Nikeshna.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
And what do you say to those officers who are
listening this morning, who are you know who who are
feeling as though this is maybe a grand statement.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
But it's.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
You know, it's words rather than their meaningful action.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, we'll translate that into action. I have to. I'm
accountable and it will be put measures in place. And
you know, Katie, one of my positives is unaccessible any
of our officers who would like to talk to me.
Most people have got my phone number, send me an email.
I'm happy to talk to you. I'm happy to take
the time to travel to you and talk to you.
(15:13):
It's really hard, you know. That's where I rely really
heavily on my executive and that's been newly formed and established.
We've got a new renewed team. But the spanner control
on access and messaging to our workforce is incredibly important.
And that's another undertaking we need to do is make
sure that people know what's going on and they piloted
as well. So but if anyone that's you know, that
(15:33):
upset about it, please, you know, be courageous, make an
effort and.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Ring me, Commissioner, just a couple of quick ones before
I let you go.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
I'm mindful of time.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
But in all of the coverage over the weekend, there
was a line from that speech which had listeners contact
me over the weekend after reading it in the article.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Online on the ABC.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
And it's the part where you say, one police are
routinely tasked with enforcing policies, laws, and regular relations both
federal and here in the Northern Territory that are often
influenced by media coverage of crime, victims and community safety,
regardless of data, evidence and expert advice. Now it's a
victim of crime who's been in contact with me about
(16:15):
that and said, I don't understand what he's trying to
say there. We've been told that you know that the
rates of crime are going up. I mean we can
all like, we can all see that, and why wouldn't
victims be part of you know, the way in which
decisions are made.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, No, absolutely, I think what I was trying to
point to there is we've had such a changing environment
in the media space, and when you have a hazard
and the outrage, the outrage doesn't dissipate that hazard. May,
I'm in no way trying to victim blame here. I
have a lot of empathy for victims and what they're
going through. And yes, we have really high crime rates.
(16:53):
They haven't abated. I acknowledge that we've got to work
incredibly hard to address the crime rates. So domestic vice,
the house break ins, what people getting their second most
valuable asset they're castolen, and the inconvenience attached to it.
You know, we're working really hard our offices every day.
You just have to look at the court system and
the correctional facilities. But you know, we've got a lot
(17:14):
of work to do because this is the point. We
can't keep doing the same thing because we're not getting
different results.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
So what do you say to victims of crime who
are listening this morning, who feel as though you've minimized
their concerns with that line in that speech.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I'm not trying to minimize how victims of crime feel.
Absolutely I'm not, and that's not my intent, And I'm
sorry you're a victim of crime and old work with
my team incredibly hard to ensure you don't become a
further victim of crime.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Now, look, final question this morning, what do you say
to anyone listening this morning who maybe feels that you're
more interested in a grand gesture rather than really sorting
the issues with not only racism but also with crime
and morale in the force.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, I'd have to say morale has actually improved a lot.
It's a bit of a myth about our morale is
so bad. It's actually really good, and we've got really
good officers working incredibly hard. But the problem is they
are working hard, and they're working tirelessly and long hours
and they're exhausted. So we need to flip it and
instead of being reactive and responsive, we need to be
(18:23):
proactive and engaging. And that's that community policing model. So
I think that please. I know there's a lot of uncertainty,
it's ambiguous. It's a big move, but it's going to
be a really important move, and hopefully we can see
the change over coming years because this is going to
be you know, it's not just a policing issue. This
is a whole of government, this is non government agencies,
(18:45):
this is the community. And I need Aboriginal territory and
showing leadership to stop what is that this stuff we're
seeing in our community is not normal and we cannot
con can no longer accept it.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
No, it's truly not.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I mean even this morning, driving into work, I was
near the the Stuart Park shops there and I'm sure
that people would have called the police because there was
a lot of cars around, but there was a man
dragging a woman onto the road and you know, like
it was clearly a domestic violence incident. And unfortunately, you know,
I've been at that same intersection about three times where
(19:18):
I've seen similar incidents in the last few months. You know,
some of what we're seeing around the Northern Territory right now,
it's sad, it's unacceptable, and you know the incidents that
we're seeing as well are incredibly violent in some cases.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, and look, it's some really deep issues here about homelessness,
vulnerable people who are sleeping rough who have come into town.
And that's the incredible work that the Territory Safety Coordination
Center's doing with patrollers as well on Laroche a Nation
in Darwin to see what the problem profile looks like
and accommodate people back home or put them in places
of safety. And that's where fundamentally the discussions are around
(19:58):
the important stuff is that will stop least seeing people
these types of offenses. You see, it's about education, it's
about housing, it's about health, and it's about jobs. It's
about having a purpose so people don't make poor choices
and end up incarcerated and addicted to substances.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Well, Police Commissioner Michael Murphy, we are going to have
to leave it there. Appreciate your time this morning. Thank
you very much for joining us on the show.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Thanks Katie, thank you.
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