The Week That Was – 16th August 2024

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is time for the week that was, and joining
us in the studio this morning for the CLP Jared Mayley,
good morning.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Good morning Katie, and good morning listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Kathleen Gazola from nine years Darwin, Good morning to.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
You, Mornie. We've got Kesier Puick, Good morning.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Kezier, morning Bush people, and for labor we've got Kate Warden.

Speaker 4 (00:18):
Good morning, Kate, Good morning Katy, and good morning to
all our Sandersen business.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Well look, we're not too far out now from the
Northern Territory election, a bit over a week away, and
I will take you all through the numbers because we
know that poling it did indeed open in the Northern
Territory on Monday, and thousands have already turned out to vote. Now,
just taking you through those numbers from yesterday, it was
down a little bit on the day before, six thousand,

(00:43):
one hundred and forty three people heading.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Out to vote.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
We've had sort of consistently around seven thousand every day,
so in total, that includes the postal votes that have
been issued though as well. Thirty four thousand, four hundred
and sixty two eight hundred of those postal votes.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
So still pretty strong numbers.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
You'd have to say, I think one week out from
the Northern Territory election, or one week and one day
from the Northern Territory election.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
What do you reckon? It mains skeezier.

Speaker 5 (01:12):
You know, Territory's we vote early and often that's my family.
I think, well, the territory we're known for voting early.
And when this pre polling started, originally used to have
to have a reason for prepole But now I think
the Electric Commission, in their wisdom, has just wants people

(01:34):
to vote, and they are voting. And I think it's
a sign of our times. You know, you can no
longer have your announcements major parties in the last week,
if not in the last two weeks of election cycle,
because half the population will have voted. So it's all,
you know, sort of academic. So and I expect that
there will be similar numbers for next week. So I
think last election over half had voted, over half had

(01:56):
voted before actual election day.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
I reckon we might end up higher than that this year.
An increase there we mave on the electoral roll.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Well, yeah, about one hundred and fifty three thousand, if
my memory serves me correctly.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
But I know that last.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Election obviously twenty twenty, it was still sort of you know,
COVID was still an issue, so whether that had an
impact for people when they're hitting out to vote twenty sixteen,
if I recall, you had to have a reason to
be able to go and vote early. So this is
probably the first time that you've really had the opportunity
to go and vote early, just.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Once, and you know, and not have to do it.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Because you kind of, you know, because you've got to
be soccer on Saturday or whatever else.

Speaker 6 (02:36):
I just want to remind everyone to go and vote.
It's really important that everyone can't see one vote Keasier
and go there because this is an opportunity to have
your say.

Speaker 7 (02:45):
No, vote no whin Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:46):
If you think that your life is better, vote Labor.
If you think your life is worth you, vote CLP.
You need to change the government, and this is your
opportunity to do it. It's really up to everyone and
it's up to you who you vote for, but make
sure you vote, get out there and do it because
it's important to have your say, and there's a real
opportunity to send a message to either party.

Speaker 7 (03:05):
There's a lot of candidates out there canvassing at the moment.

Speaker 4 (03:09):
I've been on the pole polling booth at some time
every single day this week, and I've actually chatted to
lots of people and they're quite excited about the fact
that voting can now be convenient for them, and I
think that that's the whole point. I'm not so small
you sure about two weeks of early voting. That's a
long time, but certainly that does match up with what's
going on in the bush. So we forget that there's

(03:29):
polling going on across the whole of the Northern Churchy
at the moment, and it's always happened that way, so
there's always been that polling in the remote areas, so
we're sort of aligning that in urban areas now.

Speaker 7 (03:39):
But people are taking that opportunity.

Speaker 4 (03:40):
So everybody I've spoken to have said, actually, I'm going
to Bunnings, so I'm going to just do it on
my way past.

Speaker 7 (03:45):
Or you know, it's convenient.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
I'm dropping the kids to school and I'm going to
go and vote on my way to work because it's
open at eight and just a remind it to people tomorrow.

Speaker 7 (03:53):
That it does close at three.

Speaker 4 (03:54):
So every day it's been eight to five during the week,
but it's only until three o'clock tomorrow, which is not
for some of us, so we don't have to be
on the polar and through a lot.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Of the families you know that have got their kids
at sport at Marra and that kind of thing could
be busy there. Yeah, and I did not. At Eton
as well. Earlier in the week there was signs absolutely
everywhere I'd driven through a couple of times, there was trailers,
there was signs like you name it.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
It looked like there was some kind of party on there.
At Eton. They've now been removed.

Speaker 7 (04:24):
So that was a bit of a flurry yesterday the airport.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
So this has got nothing to do with the Electoral
Commission or the boundaries. The airport guys agreed yesterday they
want they don't want any signage at all. It's a
bit disappointing because I think, you know a lot of people.
We're being very cautious with the rules, making sure that
we didn't have them right next to the road and
stuff like that, and I think some people now drive

(04:47):
past not knowing as a voting center.

Speaker 7 (04:49):
There, whereas you couldn't miss it yesterday absolutely could They
all came down at lunchtime yesterday.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
They were very Obviously the airport have the right to decide,
but it would have I guess it would have been
better if they have said that at the beginning of
the week, not halfway through. So but anyway, that's the
game we're in and that's how it all played out yesterday.
It was interesting.

Speaker 8 (05:08):
I'm a big supporter of early voting, I mean, especially
if it gets more people at the polls, lodging the
democratic right. But man, it means the extinction of the
democracy sausage.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
Oh, it certainly does.

Speaker 7 (05:19):
But it also is one I haven't seen.

Speaker 5 (05:23):
Because there's few polling booths being held at schools. Now,
schools will get paid for this service, and which is good,
helps with their funding and raising. But bees Creek has always,
in my time, in my mother's time, so we're talking
twenty thirty plus years, has always had a polling booth,
but this year it doesn't. Yah, I've elected to go

(05:43):
to the shopping centers, which then makes it difficult for
any kind of last minute promotion of yourself or your party.
Because at col Linga Central the exclusion zone is to
the highway.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Well, and it's something that was raised as well earlier
in the week Evil All I had actually seen out
in Palmerston that there's been a reduction. I don't think
there's anything in the dry style elector in terms of
somewhere to so from.

Speaker 7 (06:08):
I've certainly have lost in all.

Speaker 4 (06:09):
The primary school is a voting booth and the observation
for me yesterday was people were quite surprised how many
people had voted, for example at Casarina.

Speaker 7 (06:16):
Square, because people hadn't actually seen them go past.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
They were quite surprised by the numbers because people can
come through the back way and sort of come through
the front. But what that tells me is that and
you can see it even at Eton, where you've got
an opportunity to engage if you sort of go.

Speaker 7 (06:30):
To one side, people have made their minds up and
they're just going in.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
And they just go in and do what they want
to do.

Speaker 7 (06:34):
And a lot of.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
People are refusing, you know, they're not taking any how
to vote from people.

Speaker 7 (06:39):
So and you see that every election anyway.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
So let's you know, the opportunities there at Eaten, but
not necessarily at any of the others.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
And look, it has changed.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
I think the way in which the political campaigns are
running in the sense that in the final two weeks,
ordinarily we'd see some real jostling from both sides in
terms of trying to get you know, your promises up
and trying to get them.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Heard by territorians.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Now that is still happening to some degree, but whether
it has as big an impact as what it has
in previous years remains to be seen. Now I am
going to go through some of the election commitments that
have been made and I'll.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
Get to those more broadly shortly.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
But one of the ones that was announced yesterday by
the Country Liberal Party was bail reforms, which will be
known as Declan's Law. The opposition leader made the announcement
saying that it will help prevent another senseless death like
that of decland Lavity. Samara Laviti, the mother of murder
bottle shop worker Decland, said that she believed that her

(07:35):
son could still be alive had there been earlier interventions in.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
The life of his killer.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Now, the Colp's changes, or the amendments to the Bail
Act of nineteen eighty two, would include presumption against bail
for all serious violent offenses, presumption against mail for serious
violent offenses, when the use or threatened juice of all weapons,
including offensive weapons is involved. Presumption against bail for repeat

(08:01):
offenders defined as those that have been found guilty of
two or more offenses within the previous two years and
those that are alleged to have committed another crime while
on bail. They'd also reinstate breach of bail conditions as
an offense for youths and introduce mandatory electronic monitoring if
a repeat offender is granted bail or reoffense while on bail.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
Now, I know.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
There's been a lot of commentary around this, and you
know there are some coming out saying this morning that
that realistically it's not going to it's not going to
make a huge difference. I mean, Jared, why did the
CLP decide to go down this path?

Speaker 6 (08:41):
Look, Katie, and this is I think Territorians are looking
for a government going to take on crime, and we
know the Labor government have had no action in relation
to it. They had a bail review after Laberty incident
and their recommendations were no changes.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
At all to the bail a.

Speaker 6 (08:55):
What the CLP want to do is we want to
stop the revolving door of bail We want to make
sure that if you out there and you commit an offense,
you start with no bail and ultimately to teach these
people and young offenders and offenders, there is going to
be a consequence and people out there and territories have
had enough of crime day one action and ultimately you
need to be safe in your own home. And these

(09:17):
people are going out on bail, reoffending it and doing
it again and again and again. That revolving door that
needs to stop. And that's what the CLP want to do.
We want to make sure that if you're on bail
and you go and commit an offense, especially in a
serians violence offense, you need to have a starting point
of no bail.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Look, and I can understand why this announcement's been made,
but to play Devil's advocate here, do you think that
it's really going to make a difference or are we
going to see more people end up in jail who
you know, who maybe shouldn't be.

Speaker 6 (09:46):
No, this is going to make a real difference because
of what it's going to do, Katie is going to
make the territory a safer place.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
And what we want is.

Speaker 6 (09:53):
You to be able to go about your daily business,
go shopping, or let your kids go to the school
or to the shop, or just go out.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
In general business and feel safe. What we want to do.

Speaker 6 (10:02):
If you go out there and you commit a crime,
you need to have some consequences. And this Labor government
have failed territories for the last eight years in relation
to that, and that's why we're at this stage now
where crime's out of control, people don't feel safe, people
are leaving Northern Territory. Unlike Labor, the Seal Pe've got
a plan and we're going to take crime head on.
We're going to make sure they are consequentius because where
you want to keep territory and safe.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
I'll get to some of the announcements made by Labor
very shortly, but Kat, you've been obviously covering this over
the last twenty four hours.

Speaker 8 (10:29):
Yeah, I mean, Hannah Taylor did the story yesterday and
she spoke to the Criminal Lawyers Association and the main
change that Beth Wilde identified with this would be around first,
defenders are more likely to get locked up more often
than not, and that will be the most the biggest
impact effectively, and because I mean, at the end of
the day, while these laws are in place, it's still

(10:51):
the courts are going to make the decision, and so
the presumption might be against, but still the defense can
argue to change that and they could still be let
out on bail. So it's not going to be just
wiping out bail for all those people.

Speaker 6 (11:04):
What we want to do is we want to make
sure the court has got the biggest tool box possible
to deal with these offenders. These are criminals out there
making the territory unsafe.

Speaker 4 (11:13):
So I think it's a bit misleading what the CLP
is doing. And you do know that it's a bit
misleading because the one thing I'll point out is that
an offense has already been committed for bail to actually
kick in. So the one thing we have not heard
in this entire campaign from the CLP, how are they
going to stop the offense in the first place before
bail is even considered. And I think the point was

(11:35):
is that Kat said that courts make those decisions, and
she's right, but also police make those decisions. So while
police on the front line are making decisions around bail,
and in a number of high profile cases over the
last couple of years, the police have made those decisions
around bail.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
In the first police are the ones that have determined
in some instance.

Speaker 8 (11:52):
They have there's a chance they might also not allow
bail as much because they know that the present is
already except what we might to allown, but more bail.

Speaker 4 (12:01):
What we might also see is if you've got a
young lad that goes out and look, I know lots
of people over my lifetime, and gets involved in a
brawl in Mitchell Street as a first time offender, they
could be refused bail under what they're proposing, and they
know that they're also carrying on about serious offenders, offenses
and people getting bail. Our courts deal with them, and
our police deal with them already under that under our legislation.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
The legislation is I get what you're saying, and goodness,
as I've you know, I grew up with footballers, so
I've certainly grown up with young fellows. They got themselves
in trouble for getting in brawls. But the big difference
here was in this case, in this particular case involving
deck La Lavity, is that we weren't talking about a
brawl in the first instance. We're talking about a serious

(12:45):
violent offense.

Speaker 4 (12:45):
We were, and we were talking about someone that was
on Berlin had been on bail for a very long time.
So let's remember and remind ourself what Baio's about.

Speaker 8 (12:52):
But I suppose could you go back to the earlier
points that he's been released on bail, perhaps he might
not have been released.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
That's the whole point that you're making.

Speaker 7 (13:01):
They would be locked up. That is actually not necessarily
the case. But defense lawyer to argue, I think we
need to point.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
Out to people that our jails are full to overflowing,
and yes, we need to work in corrections and we
need to make sure that those people get access to programs.
Our jails are full to overflowing because people are being put.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
In jail for those Just let me just ask.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
So in the situation that we're speaking about with the
deckl and Lavity case, for example, you know we are
talking about there being a prior, a prior serious offense.
Now there's also there is a case that's in the
paper today where there is a man that's that has
raped a woman in broad daylight in our CBD.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Who was also on bail.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
You know, these are the kinds of incidents that people
are really very concerned.

Speaker 4 (13:51):
About but we have the information about that situation, Katie
that's missing, So he may have been on bail that.

Speaker 7 (13:58):
We're not laughable.

Speaker 4 (14:00):
But also that person may have been bailed for a
very minor offense that is not.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
In a case like that's right in the case that
we're talking about, and and with Declan's law, it's not
a minor offense.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
That's that's the whole point.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
That's where people are really upset and feeling like they're
being let down. So that's why while I can understand,
I can certainly understand the point that you're.

Speaker 7 (14:27):
Jerreed is a politician. We are politicians.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
We are to the community.

Speaker 7 (14:32):
Here making those decisions about bail. We have given, we
have made.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
The eyes, we have made the laws well.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
In your positions correct. To create legis legislation that is
up to the standard that community feels like it.

Speaker 7 (14:48):
And where there is a serious offense. And Cat made
this very very point, where there's a serious.

Speaker 4 (14:53):
Event offense currently there is a presumption against bail.

Speaker 7 (14:58):
What happens is the court because graduation, But in so
many other.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
Situations does it work in and in Kats saying you
know you have a defense, who then goes in and
argues against that presentation against.

Speaker 7 (15:12):
Bail and just to play that's the legal system.

Speaker 8 (15:15):
It's like, yes, it's the legal system, but it's not
like this case involving Declan was the only one that
a serious offender was let out on bail and then
when I did something, there's others, Yeah, there is others.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
It's all about it.

Speaker 6 (15:26):
But they had a bail review and the government didn't
take any action at all.

Speaker 7 (15:29):
We think there's a community community.

Speaker 6 (15:31):
Expectation out there that the community should be getting. And remember,
the government make.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
The laws and the courts interpret the laws.

Speaker 6 (15:38):
So what we want to do is make sure that
the courts have got the toolbox there to be able
to protect territorians. And we're starting a position of no bail,
and you might be able to argue that you do
get bail and I've done it myself lots of time.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Then it is difficulty, so you're admitting that.

Speaker 6 (15:50):
But ultimately you want to make sure that territorians are
safe right across.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
The You're going to talk to the victims of the
think that they.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Could potentially be unintended consequent is as a result of
changing the legislation.

Speaker 6 (16:02):
The consequence is going to be that the territory is
going to be a safer place the territory. These Labor
government have failed over the last eight years and the
crime has gone through the roof. People don't feel safe
and it is really squarely at labor government feet because
they have failed to change with the sealp of lead
from opposition, put bail mements into the to the parliament.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
And this Labor government.

Speaker 7 (16:25):
Comes after a crime has been committed to er.

Speaker 6 (16:27):
Range of root causes that Sealey want to fix. We
want to separate Chartory family, will want to deal with PRIs.
We've got plans in place and the Labor government and
we've got a plan look safe.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
I mean. The thing is at the moment that I
guess the issue that both of you have got is
that the community's expectations are that you know and we'll
see I guess come next Saturday. You know, I can
talk all I want, but we will see next Saturday.
My vote means as much as anybody else is in
this room or anybody else out there listening this morning.
But certainly what we have seen throughout the last couple

(17:00):
of years is thousands converge on the steps of Parliament
House to rally on this very topic. You know, thousands
of people sign a petition on this very topic, and
people feeling a huge sense of frustration.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
Now they're feeling that huge sense of.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Frustration because they feel as though the legislation and the
system is not working for them, rightly or wrongly. That
is the way that they feel. So I don't know
whether this.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
Is the answer.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
I don't know whether it's going to have the intended consequence.
I don't know if you know, we need to just
be patient and stick to patients.

Speaker 7 (17:35):
Katie, You've got to do everything at the same time.

Speaker 4 (17:38):
So I've got an incident and I know you might
want to talk about it in an uller. It's my
patch about something that's going very wrong. But it's not
just as simple as you know, a mass brawl and everything.

Speaker 7 (17:49):
There's so many factors that are going on in that space.

Speaker 4 (17:51):
It's around public housing. I've got a kid there in
that place. It's not attending school. We need to get
on top of these things, and we are through a
whole whole multitude of service approach is coming together, and
a police approach and a court approach.

Speaker 7 (18:06):
That's what community safety is about.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
We can't just keep saying slogans and we're going to
do this and change the legislation. It's misleading for people
because we are talking about things that have been coming
for a generation. So what we are approach, how do
you have a duty of care? We keep to keep
victims safe? Correct, But once a bail only comes into
play once a crime has occurred. What we're not hearing

(18:28):
from the colp is how are you going to prevent
the crime occurring in the first place?

Speaker 3 (18:32):
How have you prevented the crime from occurring in the field.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
Working intensively to get things so people can live in
remote and look, I.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Get that, I get that, to use the Chief Finister's words,
hard grinding, grindings. But the point that I'm making is
that people are feeling really.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
Frustrated by that.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Get that, and when then you've got situations that are
spilling out onto the street, where you have situations where
people are losing their lives. That's where they're asking whether
things need to change in terms of that legislation or
in terms of the policies or the procedures and the
ways in things.

Speaker 8 (19:05):
Can I just think somebody went back at twenty sixteen
when labor did come into power. You know, there was
a lot of good will towards what Michael Gunner was
saying in terms of generational change and trying something different.

Speaker 7 (19:16):
But given the.

Speaker 8 (19:18):
Past few years and the many years that you and
I have been reporting on crime from twenty seventeen, when
he was telling us that there wasn't an increase in crime,
that's what people are so frustrated with. They understand that
there needs to be generational complex issues to be changed
and fixed. It take time, but in the meantime they
don't want to feel unsafe in their own home and.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
We're increasing police.

Speaker 8 (19:41):
That's only been a recent budget announcement of five hundred
and seventy million dollars in this budget.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
I get that. Wasn't it done because we didn't because
we did that.

Speaker 4 (19:50):
The difference, say, when I was Police Minister, I kicked
off that review and I got that working going, so
we actually know where that money has to go and
that the numbers were right and it's.

Speaker 7 (20:01):
A piece of work, but that is to be done.
I hear your cat. I hear you again.

Speaker 8 (20:05):
People's frustrations even lawla were at that cabinet table.

Speaker 7 (20:09):
I wasn't at that cabinet table in twenty sixteen.

Speaker 8 (20:11):
Apologies twenty twenty, that's still four years ago.

Speaker 7 (20:14):
Absolutely, we've been working on it very hard.

Speaker 8 (20:16):
Well, it wasn't that five hundred and seventy million dollars
investment made four years ago that made among the pieces
in lead numbers.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
Then the wandering legislation cat nobody's talking about that now because.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
Sense like it's making issue.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
I want to make it easier for the police.

Speaker 7 (20:33):
Were going to have.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
To take a very quick break because there has been
a lot of promises made over the last few days,
despite the fact that a lot of people are already
turning out early to vote.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
Let's have a quick break.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
When we come back, we are going to be speaking
about some of those election promises. You are listening to
the week that was in the studio with us this morning.
We've got Kate Warden, Keesy a pure At, Kathleen Gizola,
and Jared Maylee. Now, there's been a lot of election
commitments made throughout this week, all over the last couple
of weeks. I think it's safe to say, but one
of the ones that came through yesterday was territory labor

(21:05):
pledging to expand the powers of public housing patrollers if elected,
allowing them to arrest and handcuff, use pepper spray, and
ban visitors. The new powers would target disruptive visitors and
would be designed to protect tenants and their neighbors from
anti social behavior and harm. Now, I guess the only

(21:27):
worry or the thing that sort of struck me straight
away is I thought, are they going to land themselves
in trouble potentially to police.

Speaker 5 (21:34):
If they've got the powers of arrest, they're pretty much
effectively de facto police officers.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
OL add some commentary because before my life in politics,
I had a life. I was part of setting up
the Public Housing Safety Officers program with Colin Gwinn.

Speaker 7 (21:50):
Actually we did that work.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
Together, quite controversial for this morning, but we did a
lot of work to give them the powers around alcohol
and getting rid of you being able to tbout alcohol
and confiscate alcohol. In the early days, they do some
amazing work, and it's got to a point I think
they do need extra numbers, So I think we've got

(22:11):
a commitment in there extra numbers as well.

Speaker 7 (22:13):
But their training, this is the key I want to
make is their training is actually delivered by police.

Speaker 4 (22:19):
They do a lot of combat training as well before
they hit the ground. So there's a lot of training
that goes in to them over a number of weeks
and months that gets them to a point that they
can do this.

Speaker 7 (22:30):
So it wouldn't be we're not just saying to them here,
here you go, here's a pair of handcuffs, go for
your life.

Speaker 4 (22:35):
It will come with the additional training and that will
be and I'm making a presumption here because of my
prior knowledge.

Speaker 7 (22:42):
That that will be delivered by police.

Speaker 4 (22:44):
We've always worked hand in hand with police, and I
know that police have always very grateful for other boots
on the ground and where you see a coordinated effort
because they have powers in public housing, they are difficult
sometimes for police to enact that they can do that work.

Speaker 7 (23:00):
I fully support. I think it's a great initiative.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
I've got to say Nathan Finn from the Police Association
yesterday didn't He didn't seem overy happy with it, you know,
Like I said that he was concerned that it could
also wind them up in a situation where that could
be dangerous for them, and that the reality is if
it's a dangerous situation, that it is the police who
probably need to attend.

Speaker 6 (23:19):
This is another class example, how the labor government have
failed territories. We've got to such a such an extent
here of our public safety and anti social behavior is
that bad that we have to have these de facto
police officers here?

Speaker 2 (23:31):
And it just shows that over.

Speaker 6 (23:32):
The last nineteen years, our last twenty three or eight years, directly,
how the lifestyle on the northern churches.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Are roaded down, down, down down.

Speaker 6 (23:39):
To it where we're getting these people who think they
can do anything that want some questions in estimates about
anyone being moved on or a victim, and they said,
no one's ever been evicted for their anti social behavior or.

Speaker 7 (23:48):
That's absolutely correct, that's the question.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
That's the question. You can talk all you want, because
that's what labor do they talk.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
So I asked that question, was there legitimately nobody of.

Speaker 6 (23:58):
Victors one being evicted? And you know, you can go
back and check your because I asked, I actually have.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
Two houses in my own electric people have been a
social behavior, just quite weakly.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Look, this is probably the biggest question that we've got
asked throughout the week, is you know, is why we're
in a situation where we're needing these officers when realistically,
if they were being managed more stringently, some of those
public housing homes that it maybe wouldn't wouldn't blow up
in the way.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
That it is.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
Can I tell you, in every single incident, it's never
the tenant I've come across. It's always the visitors and
visit and management for people. You know, we've just seen
the Darwin Show and we have this huge influx, and
I know that there's patches around Daren where we've got
people that are still not gone back to their communities.

Speaker 7 (24:40):
They come in for the show, but then they'll stay on.

Speaker 4 (24:43):
People come in for medical reasons and then they stay
on and they create that antisocial behavior. I know that
public housing safeties of our officers are always moving people on.
The solution isn't that, because you then get people displaced
into places like park public parks and stuff like that.

Speaker 7 (24:58):
The solution is actually getting able to get them going.

Speaker 4 (25:01):
But there's a lot of if you like, there's a
lot of cultural overlay in there, and I know we
don't like to necessarily talk about that, but where who
doesn't well as a community, we don't acknowledge that you
might have a woman that's been given a house with
three kids, and all of a sudden, she's got a
whole heap of family that have come in and she's
got cultural obligations and she can't say leave. So that's

(25:23):
why you know you've got public housing safety officers.

Speaker 7 (25:25):
I push back on what Jared said. You have a
real need for them. They've been in place for a
very long time.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
In fact, the last time that the CLP was in government,
you enhanced them. You didn't get rid of them. So
don't be disingenuous gotten rid.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
Of the comments that I'm raising or what I'm saying
is getting rid of them because I don't think they're
very good or integrated part of the So guess the
point that I'm kind of looking at, or what I'm
sort of looking at, is you see at different times,
and you know, not wanting to go into any specific cases,
but you've seen at different times where police officers have followed,
you know, their specific training that they are given, and

(25:59):
they've followed out with that training and then something has
happened and it's ended up in court or they've.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
Ended up in trouble.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
And I'm not necessarily talking about the high profile case
that's on everybody's minds, but in other cases where they've
used capsicum spray or where they've had to, you know,
to deploy one of the tools in their tool belt
to try and calm a situations out and they've ended
up in trouble. So then you're putting you know, housing
offices in a situation that could be.

Speaker 7 (26:26):
The nuance of it is that they are different.

Speaker 4 (26:28):
So public housing safety officers are trained in de escalation first,
So what we're saying is in the.

Speaker 7 (26:34):
Very extreme situation and where yes, so.

Speaker 4 (26:36):
Where well not always please go into very dangerous situations.
They do de escalate very dangerous situations with guns and
knives and all those sorts of things, Katie, We know that,
but public housing safety officers don't have that same approach.

Speaker 7 (26:50):
They're there to de escalate where they can.

Speaker 4 (26:52):
They often more of the last resort, absolutely last resort,
So they do all of the tools in their toolbox
and they get as many people as they can and
if things get bad, they call the police.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
So do we read in a situation, let's say, like
what we've seen on Emery Avenue a couple of weeks ago,
where it was terrible out there. You know, we ended
up it culminated in a car being lit on fire
fighting in the street. We'd had some of our listeners
call through and say, you know, Katie, I don't feel
safe with my dad, who's.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
Got dementia staying at home during the day.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
It was pretty terrible for them, and they specifically said
exactly where the trouble was coming from, and it was
visitors who were they? But like, how is how is
this announcement that was made earlier in the week going
to help in a situation like that?

Speaker 4 (27:41):
So this scales up things like the capsicle spray, the
ability to use that, which they've not had before, and
we've done that recently with others. So it just brings
them on par with the transit safety officers, for example,
and it gives them one tool in their toolbox if
that situation occurs that they can deescalate like that in
the situation like Emery, yes, we saw what happened at

(28:03):
the time, but what we're not talking about is what
happened afterwards, And what happens is public housing safety officers
would have been part of an approach post that you
would have seen all the agencies stood up, territory families, housing,
education police all coordinated in it how to.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Go when those people were calling at the time, because
the get sorted until they came to the media.

Speaker 4 (28:25):
But sometimes things spike, Katie, the media gets attention at
the same time.

Speaker 7 (28:28):
And then those students going for days.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
They told me they've been calling for days.

Speaker 7 (28:33):
That's a failure of response.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
Failure of housing as well.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
They've been calling them, they've been calling the police, they've
been calling all of those departments. And you know, I
take the point on board that you're saying is that
there's got to be you know, it's got to be
sort of a whole of government approach. But then when
you're not getting that response, when you are calling through
to all of those different departments.

Speaker 4 (28:55):
And we should look at that and go what happened
here and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Those services do it together.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Just keep moving along because there is so much to
cover off on this morning. Now, one of the other
announcements this week is this police retention. Now are the
COLP is saying that a police retention bonus program's going
to be granted to all Northern Territory police officers who
reach ten, fifteen, twenty, twenty five and thirty year milestones.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
Next year it would be.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
So this is if elected, of course, a ten thousand
dollars bonus given out to those who are dedicated ten
years service, fifteen thousand for those who've served fifteen, twenty
grand for those who celebrate twenty, twenty five or thirty
year milestone.

Speaker 7 (29:35):
How are they going?

Speaker 5 (29:36):
How is the CLP going to know when they'll have
to be in government in twenty years to make sure
the person who hits twenty years service gets their twenty
thousand times twelve month trail yea as.

Speaker 6 (29:46):
Only sure was actually going to work, because Keny, you
look see what happens here is we know that the
police haven't been to boarded by the labor government. The
last three survey said open ninety percent of the police
officers feeld the haven'ts to board the labor government. And
that's a fact. You can go read those surveys. So
what we want to do if we're elected is support
the police. They do a great job out there in
the front line, and we want to give them those Can.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
You extend it?

Speaker 8 (30:08):
Why not make it more than make if it's the
you're a thirteen year officer and then it only lasts
twelve months and gets yanked away.

Speaker 7 (30:17):
They're not going to get that process.

Speaker 6 (30:20):
To work with the police over the next year if
we get elected to see it, Can we tweet it?
Can we make it better because we want to support
the police, Could we know over government having its perfictly,
the bottom line what's.

Speaker 5 (30:29):
Happened in this election, and it happens in other elections too,
is the police have just become a political football, you know,
and they're a very important part of our community, any
community anywhere in the world. But a bonus system should
be looked at very carefully as to whether it should
just be restricted to police or whether it should be
others incorporated into for example, fire and ambulance. You know,
then you're sort of given the teachers thirty thirty thirteen

(30:50):
percent increase, or nurses or perhaps it should be key
people in frontline, or whether it should be people in uniform.
I don't know. But I don't have an issue with
the problem though, because there's bonuses in the private sector
all the time, retention bonuses all the time. But I'm
just curious and I'm not clear how it's actually going
to work.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
Well, I'm not clear how were you wanted to afford
any of the promises that are being made to be
really bluntly honest from both sides.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
Look, we are going to have.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
To take a really quick break, and we are trying
our best to power through all the topics today, but
there is so much going on now. You might recall
back in July when the situation in Alice Springs was
flaring up again, the Northern Territory Police suspended the liquor
licenses of two venues. At the time, we spoke to
Alex Bruce from Hospitality who had some concerns around the
suspensions and some of the comments made. Now, the managers

(31:43):
of one of those pubs questioned the evidence that police
had used, and well, earlier in the week, the Northern
Territory Police issued a media release correcting and retracting those statements.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
Now, Kate, I know that you'd made some pretty firm.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
Statements or pretty big calls on the show on that
same week.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
I mean, like you, what's your reaction.

Speaker 4 (32:05):
So I'm very supportive of police having the powers to
intervene where there's issues around alcohol because they are generally
the first responders and it's an appropriate thing to do.
But I think what this has shown us that you
need a review mechanism or to apply that procedure fairness
on natural justice to in this instance those businesses. So

(32:26):
I think this has highlighted that I'm never going to
back away from giving the police the powers to do
their job, because in other instances outside of this, they've
done some really good work.

Speaker 7 (32:35):
They've shut down a lot.

Speaker 4 (32:36):
Of venues for up to twenty four to forty eight
hours at different points in time, which has really escalated things.

Speaker 7 (32:42):
So I do think these powers are necessary.

Speaker 4 (32:45):
But obviously we do need to have an opportunity for
those businesses to have that reviewed, and this has highlighted that.
So absolutely willing to cop that and we will make
sure that review mechanism is brought into place.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
I mean, you've made some comments.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
I was saying that you had seen them pulled out
the shutters and doing the wrong thing, So you start
by that.

Speaker 4 (33:03):
Absolutely, I've seen the shutters pull down. I've seen people
come out onto the street and all the spring that
are so highly intoxicated they can't.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
Stand up if they came to retract that coming into.

Speaker 7 (33:12):
Or retracting that.

Speaker 4 (33:13):
Because that's my own experience and I've seen that, we
need to make sure that everybody has a responsibility around
alcohol that includes people selling it, people consuming it, and
we need to get on top of those things.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
Go by Alex Spruce throughout the week as well, that
he had said that the reality of that situation was
that some young people had actually got into an altercation
at a fast food restaurant. They'd then come further down,
and that there was actually a I thought he'd set
a Territory Families vehicle that had been keeping an eye
on things that hadn't sort of hadn't interacted or done

(33:47):
anything either. So I mean, is it, like, is there
questions that need to be asked in that space, whether
the departments potentially acted appropriately.

Speaker 4 (33:53):
Heard of that incident, And I'd be very happy to
unpack that and see if that's the case. But what
I'm saying is that we need a range of laws
around alcohol and everybody needs.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
To do it disagreble.

Speaker 4 (34:03):
And I'm not saying that the police were one hundred
percent right in this situation, but I back the fact
they've got these powers. But I have seen in our
email springs where people are highly intoxicated by the middle
of the day that glog's coming from somewhere I know
the police down there have done some significant work around
secondary supply and we've got to make.

Speaker 7 (34:21):
Sure that that's where it stops.

Speaker 4 (34:23):
But can I also say that I've also seen this
pattern where family members who are not on the band
drinkers registered are clearly purchasing a leader, a bottle of
spirits and a great big crton of beer every single
day and they're clearly not consuming it. So we need
to be innovative around this space and continue to work
in alcohol because we do see those things every single

(34:46):
day across the Northern Church.

Speaker 6 (34:47):
I know the Labor government change the law in relation
to the penalty for the secondary supply, so we asked
some questions in parliament and over the last three and
a half years, no one has been charged with secondary supply.
So when Ms Warren talks about the people are doing it,
we've asked the question, I can go and show you
no one has been charged the prosecution.

Speaker 5 (35:07):
I think there's I think into communities being charged.

Speaker 7 (35:12):
And they can't.

Speaker 6 (35:14):
That might be under you know, bringing Lickory and we're
talking about secondary supply and the Harm Reduction Act.

Speaker 8 (35:19):
I don't know me Why wasn't the cc TV reviewed
in the first place to really to use some.

Speaker 5 (35:28):
Evidence exactly before they made the decision.

Speaker 8 (35:30):
Now it's taken over a month until this retractions come out.

Speaker 5 (35:34):
It's just and didn't I read not the commissioner, but
another senior officer said he wasn't going to apologize. So
you've got Alice on one hand, you've got the commissioner
retracting the statement. I think it was the commissioner, and
then another.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
Yeah, the media unit. So I'm not sure exactly. Yeah,
I don't know exactly how.

Speaker 5 (35:52):
Well it just goes. It shows how quickly police have
been making decisions down in our springs based on what
they think is the right thing to do at that
particular time.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
And clearly the government not going to apologize, and they're
being pushed.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
In Alice Springs.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
A thirty eight year old female has been charged in
relation to the unlawful sale of alcohol last week. So
that was on Wednesday, and she apparently had three lead
casks of wine on ellery drive and that thirty eight
are you retracting them when she was charged with two
She was charged with two counts of unauthorized sales.

Speaker 6 (36:25):
You should protract your talking about authorized sale. I'm talking
about a secondary supply, which Miss Warden said that she
has had a second veration. When you're selling it, that's
not secondaries.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
Look, we are going to take a really quick break.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
There is so much to cover off on this morning
and before we wrap up this morning, we have had
really well a number of people who live in a
nulla in contact with us throughout this week. A couple
in particular who live on the street where there was
a large disturbance involving knives and an air rifle. Now
police so they received reports from multiple people fighting with
machetes before a firearm was produced upon Union Terrace about

(36:59):
eight o'clock. I believe it was Wednesday night if I
recall correctly, maybe Tuesday Tuesday night actually. The group then
dispersed when officers arrived. Then heavily armed police converging on
that nearby property, arresting an eighteen year old man. Now,
two of the neighbors that have been in contact with
us have said that they had been in contact with

(37:19):
both Territory Housing also the police over various incidents and
different things that had been occurring where they were quite
worried that it was going to escalate.

Speaker 5 (37:29):
They would have had they would have had they would
have seen, they would have seen, they would have heard,
and if their neighbors have probably been there for many years.
And this is just another situation. Last week it was
in Palmerston burning cars and Maria every this time it's
in Anula, you know, and Alice Springs and somewhere else,
somewhere else another. And they'll be not necessarily public housing

(37:50):
tenants and their visitors. It won't necessarily be that, but
it'll just be a problem with the crime and the
meles that we see. And it's fine to say these
people are visitors and they're the ones that are naughtying
it into trouble, but they are showing blatant disregard for
the law as well. It doesn't matter who they are,
you know, something has to give. And my question has
always been where the bloody get these machetes from, because
there's only about two businesses in Darwin that sell them,

(38:14):
which I'm not going to name, you know, and they
usually use I've.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Got don't regarded as you know, and their rifle.

Speaker 5 (38:22):
I understand it was an air you know, it's a
bit different to twenty two or something, but it still
can be very dangerous. But you know, these people these people.
I still can't keep you too. But you know, these
people just shouldn't have access. I'm not saying prohibit them
and put them behind the counter like cigarettes, but the
volume of machines that are sold in the territory is.

Speaker 7 (38:41):
Going to last.

Speaker 6 (38:41):
Look at the issue here, the causes the crime, and
there's crime control right across the Northern chitory and there
is no contempt. And this is another example how they
failed territorial.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Saying to us earlier that they're visitors in a lot
of cases.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
I'm assuming in this I.

Speaker 4 (38:57):
Don't get some context because carriage is going to talk
over the top of me regardless. We've bo've done a
pretty good job of that this morning around here, Katie.
But you know that particular property for many many years,
and to fact, the whole time of my tenure had
a beautiful family in it for a long time. They
exited and we've got a new family and there recently
that have got some significant visitor management. Territory housing have

(39:18):
been going in there within their remit to try and
get that done. I know that other services have been
in there as well, because I've been chatting with the
local school because there's a child there that needs to
go to school and they are doing everything within their
powers to get that child to school. So there's a
whole range of things. Territory families are now stepping into
that space. And I know that police have been responding
to a number of issues because people keep going that

(39:38):
to that property repeatedly. Hopefully now we've got all of
those services connecting up and doing something about that. For
my mind, Katie, and this is we were just taught
to talking about evictions off air. If that tenant can't
manage that property, there needs to be an eviction. And
when I was a territory housing minister, we did do
a number of evictions, and just a number of weeks ago,

(40:00):
we had an eviction in Wogaman, a successful eviction because
people there were putting up with absolutely disgusting behavior well
below what you would expect and what you should be
should be, you know, going on in your communities, and
those people escalated that to me and we work together
to make sure that we could get those people out.
You have to, you know, territory public housing is not

(40:22):
a right, it's a privilege. And when you get that privilege,
because we know that these are most vulnerable people often
people come in from remote for reasons that need to
access health. You need to manage that property, and if
you're struggling, you need to actually allow the services to
help you to do that. And you know you'll see
all those signs up about banning of alcohol and all
that sort of stuff. You need to get all of
that in place and make sure you step on the

(40:44):
gas and look after your tendancy. And where you can't,
there's no place for that group of people within our community.
So we need to just keep working on it and
make sure that people can, you know, are evicted where
they don't look after the tendancies.

Speaker 8 (40:57):
You'd hope that for those people in that community that
will happen sooner rather than later. Given the escalation of
that incident during the week, I suppose the main thing
that people would be questioning you mentioned within their remit.
So then do they need to have extra powers or
like fasten the process to sort it out because obviously

(41:18):
you mentioned that there was a good family in there.
Now obviously who's in their error struggling to deal with
all these other things? How long has that been going
on for people?

Speaker 7 (41:27):
Everybody comes onto the same bit of legislation CAT. So
maybe there needs to be a relook. Maybe we do
need to look at it.

Speaker 4 (41:34):
But where you've got somebody in a public that you've
got the same measure. But the thing is, when you
go to NTCAT to get an eviction, there's expectation that
public housing is the last resort for anybody in terms
of housing. That you show and demonstrate that those people
can't keep that tendency going, and often they'll push you
back out of NTCAT. So that you've got to be schmick.
You've got to have all of your evidence.

Speaker 7 (41:54):
I know that which you wait list.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Then yeah, that's exactly right to have.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Well, look, we are going to have to get ready
to wrap up because we have run out of time.
But before we wrap up, Keys, you understand you're having
a bit of a garage.

Speaker 5 (42:07):
To the teapots have been a hot favorite.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Have they?

Speaker 3 (42:12):
Well sixteen this is actually for your electoral office.

Speaker 5 (42:15):
This is my electoral office and been having been in
there for sixteen years, there seems to be an awful
lot of stuff that has to be moved out, like
things that we've purchased over.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
There some phantom memorability are keeping that for yourself?

Speaker 5 (42:28):
Well, no, there are some second comics, as in I've
already got the originals and these are seconds. We've got
fantom stuff. We've got lots of the teapots are in
hot demand KPE, especially the blue ones. Yeah, but there's
lots of stuff. There's Michael Waves's crockery, this cutlery, the Waves, yes, stationary,
there's toys. We used to do a decoration in our windows.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
So what can people? Are you raising some money? People
having it for.

Speaker 5 (42:54):
Free, no notes for Wildcare, wonderful backers and Wildcare team.
And we'll have some food and some so if you
if you didn't want to buy anything, you can make
a donation. And yeah, eight thirty three to about one twelve,
come along everyone, come hell a drink.

Speaker 7 (43:13):
Waves. We are going to have to wrap up.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
Jared Mayley for the CLP.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Good to see you, thanks for your time this morning.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
Thank you, thank you listening.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Kathleen Gazola from nine years Start, Thank you for your
time this morning.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
Keizy Appuric, thank you for that.

Speaker 5 (43:25):
Thanks Kate, thanks for.

Speaker 3 (43:26):
Joining us in.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
Kate Warden, thank you for your time. Good to see
you this morning.

Speaker 7 (43:29):
Always love to be here.

Speaker 4 (43:30):
And just a final reminder get out and vote, Let
vote early, vote often, just.

Speaker 5 (43:35):
Once, just especially when you've got lots of sisters with
the same shirt.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
Nay that sister sister's control.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
I'm going to get the electoral commissioner onto you. You
are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
That was the week, That was