Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yesterday we heard from the Chief Minister Leafanochio that Declan's
Law will be introduced in the first sittings of Parliament
commencing next Tuesday. Under Declan's Law, Chief Minister Leafanocchio said
there would be a presumption against bail for youth and
adult serious violent offenders, regardless of whether a weapon is involved.
(00:22):
Now joining me on the line is Samara Lavity, whose
son Declar was murdered while at work at the hands
of someone who was out on bail for violent offending.
Good morning to Samara.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Good morning Katie.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Now, how are you feeling about the plans for the
legislation to be introduced next week?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
And it's it's exciting, but it's also extremely bittersweet. It's
the culmination of nineteen months of work to try and
get changed and having to relive why I'm pushing through
with this has been really, really hard, But it is
also an amazing feeling to know that we have actually
(01:05):
managed to make that change.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
You should be really proud because you have advocated so
hard to you know, to make a change and to
hopefully stop what has happened to your family from happening
to any other family.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, look, it's been Like I said, it's been really
good asweet. I spent most of yesterday afternoon just crying.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
It was.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah. I'm not even sure how to describe it.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
It was.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
And I cannot even begin to pretend to understand how
you feel, Samara, you know ever, but I would imagine
it is it is like reopening a wound every time
you have to talk about this situation and every time
you talk about what happened your son, even though you
(02:02):
know the changes are hopefully going to be a positive.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Thing, absolutely, And that's why I think that's why I
can sort of keep pushing through it is you know,
at the end of the day, and I've said this
the whole whole way along as I just don't want
any other family to have to go through this. And
I guess at the end of the day, for me,
that's what keeps pushing me on is knowing how the
(02:27):
last nineteen months have been for us. I just if
there's anything I can do to stop another parent from
hearing those words, or you know, another sister from having
to grow up without her brother, then I will do
what I can to stop that from happening.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I know the legislative changes are going to mean that
a breach of bail will become an offense for all,
and electronic monitoring is going to be mandatory for the
few repeat serious offenders who are still granted by Do
you think that change is going to make a difference.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yes, I do. Keeping an eye on where people are
and making sure that they're adhering to their bail conditions
as well as I guess you're just keep coming back
to the fact that our offender was out unbailed. There's
(03:25):
no way that you're ever going to get in front
of every single person, but you know, just the hope
that you know, people going out and knowing I guess
in the back of the head that you know, if
I do this, I'm not going to get unveil. I
am going to be stuck in and remand for whatever
amount of time it might hopefully just you know, make
(03:49):
them think slightly twice about what their actions will be.
If that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, it does. You know, Look, I really hope that
it does make people think twice about the way in
which they're behaving, and that it does make people, you know,
I really consider the fact that they if they do
commit a violent offense that they're going to wind up
in a lot of trouble, not think that they're going
to get away with it. And I know that that,
rightly or wrongly, that has been the belief of a
(04:19):
lot of Territorians for quite some time, feeling as though
people are committing crimes and they're really not being a
ramification to some of those crimes.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, exactly, We've issue a multiple times and I'm course,
I don't have the stats in front of me at
the moment, but there is a lot of subjective evidence
out there to show that a lot of these crimes
are repeat offenders who are out on bail. And that
relation sends me because there's no sircu breaker in the
(04:50):
middle to go hate, no, don't do this, because you're
not going to go front the police in the police
watchhouse or go to sit the next day and be
allowed to go home. So getting in front of those
people and going hey, don't do it to start with
because there are going to be these consequences to me
(05:14):
is a really big thing because I just really hope
that it makes some people, you know, think about what
their actions are going to result in.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Samaraw. We know the chief Minister has also said that
they're going to make it quicker and easier for police
to use handheld knife scanners known as wands. Is that
something you'd wanted to see? And do you think that
that's going to, you know, to help in some way?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, I do. The current model that wandering is under
is quite convoluted. The plotard to be able to the police,
to be able to wander, it's really quite quite difficult.
These changes will make it easier to get permission to
want because of like with this floatart, it's got to
(06:05):
come from up the top. They can't just go, oh,
I'm just going to go out and I'm just going
to wand for the sake of it, there are guidelines
behind it. But the reality is is that there is
a lot of people carrying knives in places where you know,
(06:26):
the general public are So for the police to be
able to go and try and get some of these
knives off the street at the point of contact, it
can I think it can only help just to drive down,
you know, and again thinking about okay, if I carry
a knife, am I going to get caught? Maybe that
(06:49):
might make someone go oh, okay, I'll put that back.
I'll not take it out.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
And I know there's been some discussion about the fact that,
you know, as part of one of these changes, police
can use WANs in more public places, not just high
risk areas, but including public transport and schools. And there'd
been some people that were sort of going, you know,
I don't know whether they should be able to be
used in schools. You know, for me, as a parent
of children that are at school, I don't have a
(07:14):
big issue with it. I think if the school has
a concern that somebody's armed, or if the police have
a concern that somebody's armed, well wouldn't you want them
to know that?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Oh? I absolutely agree. I have seen a bit of
pushback on that, you know that, you know, the general
concessors seems to be that, you know, it's going to
be kids again to be wanded on their way into school,
They're going to be searched every day, and that's just
not the case. It's going to from my understanding, it's
going to come from, I guess vainly sorry, mainly the principal,
(07:49):
who is going to know that students, they're going to
know what's going on in their school, and the request
for wanding will almost always probably come from whoever is
in charge of the school at that point in time.
It's not just going to be around and hey, let's
look up and start wanting kids for the fund of it,
the fun of it. So there's a lot more to
(08:10):
it than then they're on the.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Surface, Samara, Is there any area with this legislation that
you feel maybe didn't go far enough or is there
anything that's been missed out? Or have you have you
had a good look through or had a good chat
with the Chief Minister and found that it's pretty comprehensive.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
It is pretty comprehensive. There is one thing I would
like to see added in and that is a consideration
to veil for people who are defending themselves, particularly in
domestic violence or intimate partner violence situations. I think that
those cases should be allowed to be looked at with
(08:54):
discretion by the police as to whether or not they're
going to move forward and charge.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So do you sort of mean just hearing that on
a practical sense, do you mean if, for example, a
victim of domestic violence, you know it hurts the perpetrator
allegedly and you know is actually defending themselves in that process.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, that's exactly exactly it.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah. Look, I hadn't even thought of that, so that
is something that I'll have a closer look at when
Parliament does sit next week. Are you going to be
here when parliament sits, Samara.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yes, I absolutely will be. I'm coming up next week
to sit in Parliament and what these changes be passed
into legislation.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah. Look, I really appreciate your time this morning. There's
messages coming through this morning. There's one from Deb in Pinelands.
Deb says, well done, Samaraw I'm so very proud of you.
I don't think these bail laws will make offenders think twice,
but the offenders will be put behind bars and no
longer be able to hurt any and the public will
(10:01):
be safe from their violence. That one from debin Pinelands
and plenty of other messages coming through a lot of
support for you, Samara, and.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I am really really grateful for that. And without the
support of the community of the Northern Territory, we couldn't
have made these changes happen. So I'm extremely grateful for
all of the support, Samara.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Lavity good to catch up with you as always. Thank
you very much for having a chat. With me once
again this morning.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
You're welcome. Thank you so much, Toby. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Thank you
Yesterday we heard from the Chief Minister Leafanochio that Declan's
Law will be introduced in the first sittings of Parliament
commencing next Tuesday. Under Declan's Law, Chief Minister Leafanocchio said
there would be a presumption against bail for youth and
adult serious violent offenders, regardless of whether a weapon is involved.
(00:22):
Now joining me on the line is Samara Lavity, whose
son Declar was murdered while at work at the hands
of someone who was out on bail for violent offending.
Good morning to Samara.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Good morning Katie.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Now, how are you feeling about the plans for the
legislation to be introduced next week?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
And it's it's exciting, but it's also extremely bittersweet. It's
the culmination of nineteen months of work to try and
get changed and having to relive why I'm pushing through
with this has been really, really hard, But it is
also an amazing feeling to know that we have actually
(01:05):
managed to make that change.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
You should be really proud because you have advocated so
hard to you know, to make a change and to
hopefully stop what has happened to your family from happening
to any other family.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, look, it's been Like I said, it's been really
good asweet. I spent most of yesterday afternoon just crying.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
It was.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah. I'm not even sure how to describe it.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
It was.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
And I cannot even begin to pretend to understand how
you feel, Samara, you know ever, but I would imagine
it is it is like reopening a wound every time
you have to talk about this situation and every time
you talk about what happened your son, even though you
(02:02):
know the changes are hopefully going to be a positive.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Thing, absolutely, And that's why I think that's why I
can sort of keep pushing through it is you know,
at the end of the day, and I've said this
the whole whole way along as I just don't want
any other family to have to go through this. And
I guess at the end of the day, for me,
that's what keeps pushing me on is knowing how the
(02:27):
last nineteen months have been for us. I just if
there's anything I can do to stop another parent from
hearing those words, or you know, another sister from having
to grow up without her brother, then I will do
what I can to stop that from happening.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I know the legislative changes are going to mean that
a breach of bail will become an offense for all,
and electronic monitoring is going to be mandatory for the
few repeat serious offenders who are still granted by Do
you think that change is going to make a difference.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yes, I do. Keeping an eye on where people are
and making sure that they're adhering to their bail conditions
as well as I guess you're just keep coming back
to the fact that our offender was out unbailed. There's
(03:25):
no way that you're ever going to get in front
of every single person, but you know, just the hope
that you know, people going out and knowing I guess
in the back of the head that you know, if
I do this, I'm not going to get unveil. I
am going to be stuck in and remand for whatever
amount of time it might hopefully just you know, make
(03:49):
them think slightly twice about what their actions will be.
If that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, it does. You know, Look, I really hope that
it does make people think twice about the way in
which they're behaving, and that it does make people, you know,
I really consider the fact that they if they do
commit a violent offense that they're going to wind up
in a lot of trouble, not think that they're going
to get away with it. And I know that that,
rightly or wrongly, that has been the belief of a
(04:19):
lot of Territorians for quite some time, feeling as though
people are committing crimes and they're really not being a
ramification to some of those crimes.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, exactly, We've issue a multiple times and I'm course,
I don't have the stats in front of me at
the moment, but there is a lot of subjective evidence
out there to show that a lot of these crimes
are repeat offenders who are out on bail. And that
relation sends me because there's no sircu breaker in the
(04:50):
middle to go hate, no, don't do this, because you're
not going to go front the police in the police
watchhouse or go to sit the next day and be
allowed to go home. So getting in front of those
people and going hey, don't do it to start with
because there are going to be these consequences to me
(05:14):
is a really big thing because I just really hope
that it makes some people, you know, think about what
their actions are going to result in.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Samaraw. We know the chief Minister has also said that
they're going to make it quicker and easier for police
to use handheld knife scanners known as wands. Is that
something you'd wanted to see? And do you think that
that's going to, you know, to help in some way?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, I do. The current model that wandering is under
is quite convoluted. The plotard to be able to the police,
to be able to wander, it's really quite quite difficult.
These changes will make it easier to get permission to
want because of like with this floatart, it's got to
(06:05):
come from up the top. They can't just go, oh,
I'm just going to go out and I'm just going
to wand for the sake of it, there are guidelines
behind it. But the reality is is that there is
a lot of people carrying knives in places where you know,
(06:26):
the general public are So for the police to be
able to go and try and get some of these
knives off the street at the point of contact, it
can I think it can only help just to drive down,
you know, and again thinking about okay, if I carry
a knife, am I going to get caught? Maybe that
(06:49):
might make someone go oh, okay, I'll put that back.
I'll not take it out.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
And I know there's been some discussion about the fact that,
you know, as part of one of these changes, police
can use WANs in more public places, not just high
risk areas, but including public transport and schools. And there'd
been some people that were sort of going, you know,
I don't know whether they should be able to be
used in schools. You know, for me, as a parent
of children that are at school, I don't have a
(07:14):
big issue with it. I think if the school has
a concern that somebody's armed, or if the police have
a concern that somebody's armed, well wouldn't you want them
to know that?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Oh? I absolutely agree. I have seen a bit of
pushback on that, you know that, you know, the general
concessors seems to be that, you know, it's going to
be kids again to be wanded on their way into school,
They're going to be searched every day, and that's just
not the case. It's going to from my understanding, it's
going to come from, I guess vainly sorry, mainly the principal,
(07:49):
who is going to know that students, they're going to
know what's going on in their school, and the request
for wanding will almost always probably come from whoever is
in charge of the school at that point in time.
It's not just going to be around and hey, let's
look up and start wanting kids for the fund of it,
the fun of it. So there's a lot more to
(08:10):
it than then they're on the.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Surface, Samara, Is there any area with this legislation that
you feel maybe didn't go far enough or is there
anything that's been missed out? Or have you have you
had a good look through or had a good chat
with the Chief Minister and found that it's pretty comprehensive.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
It is pretty comprehensive. There is one thing I would
like to see added in and that is a consideration
to veil for people who are defending themselves, particularly in
domestic violence or intimate partner violence situations. I think that
those cases should be allowed to be looked at with
(08:54):
discretion by the police as to whether or not they're
going to move forward and charge.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So do you sort of mean just hearing that on
a practical sense, do you mean if, for example, a
victim of domestic violence, you know it hurts the perpetrator
allegedly and you know is actually defending themselves in that process.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, that's exactly exactly it.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah. Look, I hadn't even thought of that, so that
is something that I'll have a closer look at when
Parliament does sit next week. Are you going to be
here when parliament sits, Samara.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yes, I absolutely will be. I'm coming up next week
to sit in Parliament and what these changes be passed
into legislation.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah. Look, I really appreciate your time this morning. There's
messages coming through this morning. There's one from Deb in Pinelands.
Deb says, well done, Samaraw I'm so very proud of you.
I don't think these bail laws will make offenders think twice,
but the offenders will be put behind bars and no
longer be able to hurt any and the public will
(10:01):
be safe from their violence. That one from debin Pinelands
and plenty of other messages coming through a lot of
support for you, Samara, and.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I am really really grateful for that. And without the
support of the community of the Northern Territory, we couldn't
have made these changes happen. So I'm extremely grateful for
all of the support, Samara.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Lavity good to catch up with you as always. Thank
you very much for having a chat. With me once
again this morning.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
You're welcome. Thank you so much, Toby. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Thank you
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