The Week That Was – 25th October 2024

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well a very good morning and welcome to the show.
It is Friday morning. It's time for the week that
was and pleased to say joining me in the studio
this morning.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Where should I start.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
We've got the Leader of the Opposition, Selena Rubo, Good
morning to.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
You you wanted. Katy, Good morning listeners.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
For the COLP.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
We've got the Minister for Lands Planning and Environment, Josh Burgoyne.

Speaker 4 (00:19):
Good morning, Josh, Good morning, Katie, good morning. Anyone listening
down at Alice Springs.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Hey, I'm sure they are and with the Northern Territory
News Acting chief of Staff, I believe at the moment
Alex Tracy, good morning.

Speaker 5 (00:30):
You embarrassed me. Katie, Good morning everyone yesterday.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Good to be with you as well. Great to have
you all on the show now.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
It has been a massive week and I think it's
safe to say whenever Parliament sits there's always a lot
to talk about.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
But with the new.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Government there's certainly a few things being ticked off the
to do list, you might say. But we kicked the
week off with a plan, the government coming forward with
a plan around correction, so as the legislative reform aimed
at reducing crime in the Northern Territory continues.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
To forge ahead.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Many have been questioning where those who break the law
are going to go. With the Northern Territory's correctional facilities
already overflowing. Now the government has unveiled its plan to
deliver up to one thousand beds over the next four years.
That plan is going to increase the terret Trey's correction's
capacity to three thousand beds by twenty twenty eight.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Now there are a number.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Of different different things being rolled out, including a new
secure women's facility at the Allo Springs Youth Detention Center
providing forty eight beds, the expansion of the Alla Springs
Correctional Center with a new ninety six bed modular block,
the development of new work camps in Darwin one hundred
and fifty beds fifty in Catherine, construction of a new

(01:48):
one hundred and fifty bed multi classification women's prison, the
new Youth Justice boot camp, bail facilities, planning for the
expansion of between three hundred and four hundred additional men's
beds at Holts as well. So, look, there's no doubt
that we need to bolster the number of beds within
our correctional facilities. Even before you look at some of

(02:11):
the legislative changes, we know that Corrections is literally bursting
at the scenes. We've spoken to the Corrections Commissioner, Matthew
Valley earlier in the week and he did explain to
us really the number of extra prisoners we've got, how
many we've then got in our watchhouses, and how many
are on remand.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
So no doubt it was needed.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Josh, I'm sure it's something that you know that the
colp has been wanting to get moving on.

Speaker 6 (02:38):
Absolutely, Katie.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
It's a comprehensive plan and this aims to get as
you said, those prisoners out of the watch houses. It's
not a sustainable, long term solution to have them in there.
We've put forward our plan that will address these issues.
I'm going to get straight into it. One of the
more controversial parts of it has been down in other
Springs and I want to tell people what it will
mean for young people that now, as a result, we've

(03:00):
had what's been a bail supported accommodation effectively in the
middle of our town. We want to move that out
to near the correctional facility so that we can have
bail supported accommodation and our boot camp co located.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
So when young people adult bail or youth bail facility,
that's right there in.

Speaker 4 (03:17):
Town, a youth bail facility right next to Piggley Wigglies
for those that know where Alice Springs is on Gap Road.
Now that facility, if a young person chose to could
walk out the front door and they're straight in next
to a shopping center and basically a road that led
right into the center of town. Yep, what has been
occurring in Darn with the bail supported accommodation which is
exactly the same facility as what we have in Ala Springs.

(03:39):
It's a bit further out of town, and when a
young person is choosing whether or not to stay in
that facility, they actually go, well, there's nothing outside where
am I going to go? So this will support young
people to rehabilitate them, to give them other options, and
this is a really important part. By taking those women
prisoners out of the main mail jail in Ola Springs,
it will free up a number of beds. I've worked

(04:00):
in h bloc back when I was an electrician. I
know that again, it wasn't an ideal situation having women
inside a male prison. That means that there's more rehabilitative
options for women that are in prison. It now means
that we can increase the capacity of the other Springs
prison as well as all the other things you've spoken
that will happen up in Dalen as well.

Speaker 6 (04:19):
So get those prisoners out.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
Of the watchhouses, give police back their watchhouses so that
they can then proactively if there are people on the
street that need to be picked up, they can and
they've got somewhere to take them.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
I mean, the plan has not been without some controversy, Alex.
I know you've been reporting on various you know, various
political things throughout the week. It's not been without controversy,
has it.

Speaker 5 (04:39):
No, it hasn't.

Speaker 7 (04:40):
Look at issues of youth justice are always emotive. People
have strong opinions about it. I really think the key
period for the territory is going to be in the
next two years. You know, these types of infrastructure they
always take longer to come online then you think they will.

(05:01):
And with the operation of Declan's Law, what we have
is a situation where less people are being granted bail.
That's in fact the whole point. That's fair enough that's
what the mandate is. But if you suddenly have heaps
of new remand prisoners flowing in, I think the next
two years eighteen months will be quite dicey for us

(05:25):
because we are already at that critical mass of bursting at.

Speaker 5 (05:30):
The scenes, juggling, I guess, juggling it.

Speaker 7 (05:34):
The other sort of concern I have is, I think
sort of missing from the corrections conversation is we also
need to have a conversation about the efficiency and the
capacity of our court system. Absolutely, if you're going to
be reminding all these people and the courts aren't able
to keep up with the flow of people, you get

(05:57):
situations where people are spending more time on remand than
they would be sentenced to. Judges don't like that, and
you know, it's not fair, not a fair part of
our Well, even.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
When you look at some of the issues we've had
within our legal system just in the last month or so,
where we were in a situation a couple of weeks
ago where we were talking about Legal Aid really having
to wind back their services, there's no doubt that there
is some concern in that space.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
I guess the other area where.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
People have got concerns at the moment, Selena, and I
know that this was certainly discussed throughout the week as well.
Is the fact that the youth prisoners then in Alice
Springs are going to be transferred up to Darwin, and
concerns around the fact that they then aren't going to
be able to, you know, to have that visitation that
they may have had previously. Look, I don't know that

(06:45):
there's you know, I don't know how people are feeling
about that.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
What is your take on that situation?

Speaker 8 (06:51):
Yeah, Katie, that was not part of the planning process
when we were in the Labor government.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
A majority of the corrections plan, as.

Speaker 8 (06:59):
We spoke at earlier this week, is based on what
we had planned and costed prior to the election.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
When we were in government in Labor.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
So they're just delivering your plan.

Speaker 8 (07:08):
Well, a majority of it is, Katie, Like you can look,
you know, I mean it's the same department essentially, So
it's not like we went and hand picked things just
because we'll Labor. We take the advice from those hard
working public servants and who are the experts to be
able to deal with corrections and justice in.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
The way that is fit.

Speaker 8 (07:23):
So that's where those plans have come from they've come
from the Department and they've been endorsed and what we
did before the election was cost them.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
But what we didn't have, Katie, was that change.

Speaker 8 (07:32):
That really quite critical change and Josh has sort of
touched on a little bit but then gone on to
another tangent was around those Alice Springs youth being moved
completely removed from the Alice Springs and Central Australian community
into Darwin. So we don't know what the cost of
that is, so it'd be very interested in that what
happens then with the staff. We know that Corrections will

(07:55):
now have to undergo a huge amount of training because
now our Corrections officers will actually be looking after and
dealing with youth justice, which was completely separated under our
Labor government and that was purely based on that Royal
commission that happened in twenty sixteen. Katie, so really interested
to see what the costings are. I understand the reasons

(08:17):
for it. I don't agree with that particular component. The
rest of the Corrections plan I think is very sensible
because it's come from the Department. CLP's continuing on that
work and listening to the Department. But what we will see,
as Alex rightly points out, is some of the very
huge changes to particularly bail. We'll see more people incarcerated,
more people waiting on remand the justice system will start

(08:39):
to swell and we'll be watching over the next two
years and asking those questions, and particularly about the dollars.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Well, let's talk about some of that legislation that has changed,
and we know that overnight the frontline or the work
that is going to.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Sorry, I should say, the.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Legislation that is aimed at keeping our frontline workers passed
through Parliament. The Minister for Logistics and Infrastructure, Bill Yan
had joined us earlier in the week and said that
those assaults on police, paramedics, nurses, doctors, teachers, corrections officers,
as well as retail and hospitality workers, bus and taxi
drivers that you know that they want to stamp it out.

(09:19):
They do not want to have a situation where this
is continuing to happen. Now, as I say, my understanding
is that that legislation passed overnight.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
As I understand it, Selena, you did there was a division.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
You did vote with the government, but Chancey and Duran
abstained from voting.

Speaker 8 (09:37):
Is that. Okay, they weren't actually in the chamber, Katie,
there were come. Well, we actually expected the legislation to
be on Wednesdays, so normally the legislation.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
Would go through in the morning.

Speaker 8 (09:46):
Obviously we had GBD for people in the real world,
that's covered General Business Day and that's usually when the
Opposition and the independence go through, uh and then you're
onto the you know, basically government business again.

Speaker 6 (09:59):
So they're not in the building.

Speaker 8 (10:01):
I'm just answering about the timing of the legislation, Josh.
So what happened is we were ready to go at
seven on the some PM, that is on the Wednesday.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
There was a National Commissioner that was in.

Speaker 8 (10:15):
There's an issue that's coming to our community, to all
of our communities, that's going to be quite pertinent for
the November sittings. So one of my members was meeting
with that commissioner to be able to do our workers
parliamentarians when it come back in that November sittings.

Speaker 6 (10:29):
Is absolutely rubbish, kat Like labor or device. I'm just
a question question because the reality.

Speaker 8 (10:37):
The other member had an emergency that they were dealing with,
so that happens.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Unfortunately Percive this is a massive piece of legislation, right,
And I mean when you've got somebody like Chancey Paik
who says that jailing is filing and he doesn't believe
in in mandatory sentencing, surely he would be there, Katie.

Speaker 8 (10:57):
Chance He spoke as the Shadow Attorney General on that
and we said that we would be supporting our workers
and that we don't support the mandatory sentencing component. And
that's from most like all of us as labor members,
because there is clear legal evidence that mandatory sentencing in
any shape or form does not work. That's not labor
because we were bleeding heart. That's based on legal chan

(11:17):
Chancey was not in the chamber, but our labor opposition
supported the legislation, which.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
I think is a good thing.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
We support as a legislation.

Speaker 8 (11:24):
We don't really support the component, Katie, but we support
our workers.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
That's what labor apporstitionship.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Because I know that for you, as the opposition leader,
I'm sure that at different times you'll copstick over what
you do support. So I think it's important to point
that out. But what I think is really important to
point out is the fact that he wasn't here.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
Our labor opposition supported the legislation, Katie.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Are you disappointed he wasn't there?

Speaker 8 (11:48):
There was a prior engagement which was not attached to
what was happening in the chamber at the time.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Look, I guess from my perspective, I think, you know,
you've got a small team of four here, we do,
and you're.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
You know, you're trying really.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Hard to get out there as the opposition leader and
hold the government to account. I'd be a bit pissed
off if my teammates weren't behind me.

Speaker 8 (12:09):
Oh, we were behind that legislation. We were not behind
the mandatory sens and component. We still disagree with that, Katie,
but we want to stand up strong for our territory
workers and that's what we did.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
I've dominated that conversation there. What everyone else you want
to say?

Speaker 4 (12:22):
Chance, he's out in the wilderness here. I mean, he's
gone from being the deputy leader of the government to
now being you know, effectively sidelined in the current labor team,
and I think he's just trying to now show that
he's he's not going to stand up in regards to
some of the things that he personally doesn't believe in.

Speaker 6 (12:37):
And it's just bizarre that you've got.

Speaker 8 (12:39):
But he spoke on the legislation, Josh, So you can't
say he's not standing up and talking about what's important
to territory.

Speaker 6 (12:45):
You can't have it both the legislation or you don't.

Speaker 5 (12:49):
Support the legislation.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
Made the point of he made a.

Speaker 4 (12:52):
Key point of me not speaking over you Ascelyn, and
you're doing the same thing. At the end of the day,
chance he would have been in the Parliament. Now when
those bells ring, it doesn't matter. I've been having meetings myself.
You get into the chamber and you vote on this
important legislation. You're there to represent people. So for Chancey,
he that didn't feel that his vote was important or
he didn't want to represent the people on this issue.
I mean, at the end of the day, he either

(13:14):
supporter or he didn't. If he was in the chamber
and just decided not to walk in, I mean, where
does that leave labor. They're divided on this issue and
on one hand they want to support workers, but then
on the other their own former deputy won't even be
in the room for the vote.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
It's bizarre, Alex, what do you make of it all?

Speaker 7 (13:29):
Well, oh, look, I think the debate's sort of a
bit of a distraction about who was or wasn't in
the chamber. I mean, I actually think this component of
the overall package that the CLP has been advancing this
fortnight is probably one of the lesser.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Less controversial, maybe well.

Speaker 7 (13:49):
Less controversial, but also less consequential. I mean, this sort
of behavior is already condemned by the courts. If you
hokoloogie in the face of a police officer or a paramedic,
you're already going to be in trouble. I haven't seen
many circumstances where there has been an assault on a

(14:11):
frontline worker where the sentence imposed has been less than
what the mandatory minimums.

Speaker 5 (14:18):
Look.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
I know we've had different feedback from the Association, from
the Police Association, for example, and I don't like, I
can't give you a case.

Speaker 6 (14:26):
I think with in Alice Spring.

Speaker 4 (14:28):
Unfortunately, this happens very often, and quite often those police
are saying I'm being assaulted, I'm being spat on, and
then I'm picking up the same person the very next week.
So that's where this is coming from. People just feel
as are they're not being protected, as are they're not
being heard when they're working, and what we're doing is
strengthening those laws so people now know they are protected
and if they are assaulted, if they are spat on,

(14:49):
there will be an offense and there will be a penalty.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
OK, Katie.

Speaker 8 (14:52):
We actually extended when Labor was in government, we extended
the definition of assault to on our front line emergency
workers to include spittings. So that was a new section
that we inserted into that piece of legislation to strengthen that. Obviously,
it was a very unusual time of coming out of
a global pandemic and we knew what the you know,
the serious harm that could be from you know, that

(15:13):
really disgusting type of behavior to then, you know, our
frontline workers and protect them.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
So we extended that definition for spitting.

Speaker 8 (15:21):
What the CLP has done is created this mandatory sentencing
so the courts cannot look.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
At an individual case. It takes away the discretionary powers
for them. That's now the changes and then that's what
we support.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
If anyone is assaulting a frontline worker, though, shouldn't they
get in big trouble for it?

Speaker 4 (15:38):
Absolutely they should, and this is why there needs to
be consequences attached to it. And that's what we've ensured
there's now is a minimum mandatory.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Look, we're going to take a very quick break. You
are listening to Mix ONEOW four nine's three sixty.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
It is the week that was.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
You are listening to three sixty now in some breaking
news and Northern Territory Police have just issued a statement
saying that they are calling for information in relation to
an aggravated burglary and in decent assault incident that occurred in.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
Catherine last night.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
About nine forty five last night, police received reports of
an unknown group of offenders attempting to enter a residence
on Elliott Street in Catherine South. Up to five offenders
armed with knives have allegedly entered that residence and restrained
the sole female resident before indecently assaulting her and stealing property.
Family members of the victim arrived before police, with the

(16:29):
offenders fleeing the scene. A short time later, officers apprehended
a fourteen year old male youth who's currently assisting police
with inquiries and investigations remain ongoing. If you've got any
information to anybody out there listening this morning, one three one,
triple four is the number.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
I mean that sounds horrible.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
An incredibly frightening situation for a woman to be in
inside her own home something like that happening. Yeah, the
thought of the thought of that makes me feel quite like,
really quite distressed for her, to be.

Speaker 8 (17:03):
Honest, Yeah, it is very distressing, Katie. And I know
the police will do a good job in investigating that.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
But my thoughts with the.

Speaker 8 (17:10):
Lady and any of her family, friends and support network
because I live in Catherine, that's my community and anything
like that is absolutely unacceptable. So really hoping the police
are able to apprehend any of those offenders and deal
with them so they face the full consequences.

Speaker 7 (17:25):
Selena, you'd know living locally. But I honestly think Catherine's
a bit of a basket case at the moment. With
all the problems that have been in Alice Springs over
the last couple of years, I sort of think Catherine's
kind of gone under.

Speaker 5 (17:39):
The radar a little bit. I was there earlier this year.

Speaker 7 (17:42):
My favorite fishing rod got nicked, had a nice whippy tip,
so good.

Speaker 5 (17:47):
But I mean it was my fault. I didn't lock
my car, so.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
It But you know, this is the thing, I suppose
you kind of like it seems things like that seem
like little things, but they are important to you.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
It's party life, you know.

Speaker 6 (17:57):
Just bringing it.

Speaker 4 (17:58):
Back to this instant, Katie, We've had some serious violent
offenses in our springs as well, and my thoughts are
with that family that are now dealing with this. This
is why we pass laws in regards to serious violent
offenders and ensuring their consequences and that they don't end
up getting bail. For that individual, I don't know their circumstances,
but for a fourteen year old to be committing these
sorts of serious offenses is really worrying and why we

(18:19):
need to be intervening in young people's lives earlier so
that their behavior and their offending doesn't escalate to a
point where if the person that police are apprehended is
the offender in this case, it leads to this sort
of incident that then affects those people that have been impacted.
Four years and I've spoken to so many people who
with tears in their eyes, speak about the trauma that
they go through and in some instances it forces them

(18:43):
to leave the homes, to leave their communities because they
no longer feel safe.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
It is woeful and Alex going back to the point
that you made about, you know about sort of worrying
about some of what is going on in Catherine.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
That has been something that's been raised with us as well.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
You know, we've seen different incidents, particularly at some of
the service stations as well overnight, where there's been some
really quite aggressive and violent offending towards you know, towards
people and then thefts occurring. But it's frightening stuff and
it changes the way you live your life.

Speaker 7 (19:14):
Yeah, there's just so much property crime, particularly in Catherine.
The amount of times that poor coffee club has been hit,
the tennis clubs really on its knees at the moment.
Just repeated Actually there I understand applying for a big
government grant debate. They can't secure their their clubhouse and

(19:36):
it's you know, four or five six break ins in
the space of not very long at all.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
And this is the thing, right, this is why we
are in the situation that we're in at the moment.
And I know there's certainly been you know, criticism of
the government with some of the legislation that's been pushed
through and people saying, you know, there's not the the
adequate sort of scrutiny being placed on some of that legislation,
but I think it had reached a point, and it's
reached a point where so fed up with the crime.

(20:02):
They're so upset by the crime and the impulse that
it's been having on their lives, and in a place
like Alice Springs, Josh, I know that, you know, we've
reported on it time and time again, those different issues,
and like, I totally get that people want to see
scrutiny for legislation, and I do think that with some
of the legislation we're going to have.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
To be quite careful.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
I hope that there is not unintended consequence, but we've
reached a point where the community's had a.

Speaker 4 (20:29):
Gut for absolutely. Katie will cop the criticism every day
of the week. If it means the laws that we've
put in place will protect the community into the future,
that's what we're aiming to do.

Speaker 8 (20:37):
Well, Katie, I just wanted to add that, you know,
don't dispute the work that the Colp's done, particularly of
the last fortnite around increasing punitive measures and consequences, but
we will also like to see the labor opposition is
that front end investment into alternatives to custody, so we
can really target that very unacceptable behavior in our community,

(20:57):
that offensive behavior, to make sure that we can really
reduce reoffending. We're happy to work with the new CLP
government on that. Alternatives to custody will make a huge
difference in the Northern Territory, especially in places like Catherine,
which is the hub of the Big Rivers region. You know,
several years ago when I held the Justice portfolio, one
quarter of all adults who are imprisoned in our Holtz

(21:19):
Prison came from the Big Rivers region, which is why
we underwent that work around an.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
Alternative to custody.

Speaker 8 (21:25):
COLP has taken that on through their new corrections plan,
So we will support that because we believe an area
like Catherine, like my hometown, the Big Rivers region, does
deserve to have those options to really focus on justice,
to have those consequences, but to really reduce offending behavior
in the future.

Speaker 4 (21:42):
Yeah, those work camps, Katie will sort of go to that.
And I know there's been one Intenning Creek and wh're
they're looking at one for Catherines.

Speaker 5 (21:49):
All right.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Now, we know that new nuisance public drinking offense, that
new offense is going to give police powers to find,
charge and risk people in public places where alcohol is prohibited,
as well as issuing those same people a seven day
band drinker order. Now this is something that's passed as
well the new public drinking nuisance offense. We know that

(22:11):
Steve Edgington, the Minister for Alcohol Policy, said that the
laws are about making our public spaces and parks safer
and cleaner for everyone, and that these powers are going
to allow police to intervene earlier to ensure excuse me,
that we stop the scourge in public places where alcohol
is prohibited. Now, there are some concerns being raised by others.

(22:32):
I know that Mulka mla in Ya Marc Gyula took
to social media on the weekend to warn people that
they may be locked up and to head home. In
a post on social media, he said to my indigenous countrymen,
wherever you come from around the communities in the Northern Territory,
please think about going back to your communities or even
back to your homeland communities, because we're now seeing an

(22:55):
NTCLP government that's introducing very bad laws that will increase
system racism for our indigenous sovereign people on this land.
I mean, Josh, firstly, why do you reckon these? The
public drinking Nuisance.

Speaker 4 (23:11):
Law was required, and this is something we see right
across the Northern Territory Kadian, and I know lots of
people who phoned it into you in.

Speaker 6 (23:17):
Regards to it. We have groups of people that will
be out.

Speaker 4 (23:20):
Drinking, and unfortunately that drinking can then turn into them
crowding a nuisance. It can then lead to domestic violence
and all the other things. So what we're essentially ensuring
here is that there are penalties in place. I want
to be really clear. The previous government always told us
that this law already exists, but there was no penalty
attached to it.

Speaker 8 (23:36):
We've got the penalty in place.

Speaker 4 (23:38):
We've got the penalty in place. We're ensuring now going
forward that this will in some instances interact with people
stop that d DV from occurring later on, and they
will give police the additional powers they need to interact
earlier and intervene earlier.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
I mean, we kept.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Being told under the former government that the two kilometer
rule was still in place, yet there were still people
drinking within two kilometers.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Of takeaway venues. So I think that's where we reach
the point where people going, well, hang on a secon
I'm scratching my head thinking if this is an offense,
why we still got people drinking everywhere?

Speaker 3 (24:09):
So there was a penalty attached, Katie.

Speaker 8 (24:11):
So when you're talking about the monetary fines, which is
what the CLP is concentrated with this particular legislation, and
it's an increase, so I think it's five penalty units,
which makes it nine hundred and twenty five dollars fine.
What happens if somebody can't pay that fine, Katie? Where
are they going to go? Is the fine going to
get dropped off? Or will they end up locked up?
So that's the sort of thing we need to step out.
We haven't heard much about water problem. Drinker would then

(24:34):
interface with support networks from the COLP, and we're very
happy to hear that because we're talking about a health
issue that is affecting a large majority of the territory
in terms of you know, community safety, and that's a
huge concern that we were talking about a small minority
of territorians who are causing those problems and nuisances.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
How do we support or.

Speaker 8 (24:54):
Really target again that behavior, that education around alcohol, the
health issues that may come out with that person or
a group of people around alcohol, and not just the
monetary find that thinks are going to solve everything.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
I guess what the community was saying, though, is that
they were fed up with the softly, softly approach that
they felt the government of the Labor government was taking
and they wanted to see some action because they were
seeing the impacts and the real detrimental impact I think
of people drinking publicly, not only around Darwin, but in
other parts of the Northern Territory. I know I'd spoken

(25:28):
to different members of the police force as well at
different times where it had gone from people sort of
drinking in a public place to then increasingly worse behavior.
And we've even seen as well, at different times, terrible,
terrible incidents of domestic violence around the streets of the
Northern Territory, particularly here in Darwin. And you know, I

(25:50):
know you're never going to stamp all of that kind
of behavior out, but I just think some of what
has been happening on the streets has been.

Speaker 8 (25:59):
Really There has been some horrible incidents and their unfortunately
continues to be.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
When we're talking about alcohol.

Speaker 8 (26:05):
We really do need to have that range of measures
that really reduce alcohol.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
Harm in our community.

Speaker 8 (26:12):
And the COLPS also said they're going to scrap the
minimum floor price unit, which they believe doesn't work. But
I've seen data, Katie, from the Independent School of Health
Menzies Research that shows that since that minimum floor price
unit was introduced to the Northern Territory, there is clear
data that shows there is a reduction in alcohol related harm,

(26:32):
alcohol related dvs of.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
Dopmestic family sexual violence.

Speaker 8 (26:36):
And there's been letters that have been written by these
health experts, by these independent researchers to the new Minister
Steve Eddington, the memph of Barkley, and to the new
CLP government. So when we're saying alcohol is affecting our
community on one hand and that we're going to do
stronger measures again consequences and penalties, but then on the
other hand saying well, actually we don't believe this, we're

(26:57):
going to ignore the experts and that independent research and
advice are we're going to make grow cheaper and easier
to most.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
Really clear here, it was Labor who closed down the
Integrated Withdrawal and Assessment Service in Ellis Springs to deal
with problem alcoholics.

Speaker 6 (27:11):
We have said loudly and.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
Closed to the hospital.

Speaker 5 (27:15):
It was closed down.

Speaker 4 (27:16):
I have had people in that service that came to
me and said, do not believe anything that Labour are saying.

Speaker 6 (27:22):
They have closed the service down.

Speaker 4 (27:23):
Specialized service they have closed down.

Speaker 6 (27:26):
That is what happens. And this is under the Labor government.

Speaker 4 (27:29):
So we had a specialized service that they closed down
and now they're coming out saying that we.

Speaker 6 (27:34):
Need these services.

Speaker 4 (27:36):
We will ensure that there is our coal managery treatment
for people that have problems with our cool that are alcoholics,
and we will ensure these programs are in place. Unlike
Labor who closed down that specialized facility, the services did
not alex.

Speaker 7 (27:51):
There is an issue in the territory about the I
guess the withering of capacity of AOD organizations to.

Speaker 5 (28:03):
Be able to offer services.

Speaker 7 (28:06):
The most recent Department of Health and Your reports showed
that there were less publicly funded AOD sessions being delivered
in the territory. You do have things like Mission Australia's
Beerrima facility closed, so there is an issue of you know,

(28:28):
a degrading of our capacity, which I think is a
bit concerning the headline figure of nine hundred and twenty
five dollars for this file. No one's going to get
that if you're if you're in a park boozing it
at midday, you're not going to get a nine hundred
and twenty five dollar fine. And you know that you
probably don't have What.

Speaker 8 (28:49):
Happens if someone does get fine and they can't pay it.
The seal perce and talked about those that make our
community more safer.

Speaker 4 (28:56):
If you're court speeding, you get a fine and there
is a turn in place, so we don't all drive
around one hundred kilometers an hour right now, we're insuring
there is a deterrent in place under the labor government terrence.

Speaker 6 (29:08):
And they didn't care about you, But.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
So what do you do? Selena? Just not bother.

Speaker 8 (29:14):
But we're talking about cause and effects. So when a
consequences occurs, if a consequence doesn't get followed through, which
I'm asking Josh to answer, if that nine hundred and
twenty five dollars fine does not get paid.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
What happens to that person? Where do they go? How
do we make sure that the community is safe? That's
what I'm waiting to hear.

Speaker 7 (29:30):
Usually, what happens when you don't pay fine is the
main deterrent is is suspending drivers life?

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yes, so is that That's where I guess that band
drinker register comes in and you a range of measures.

Speaker 6 (29:42):
There are a range of measures that can happen. This
is the reality. The fact that there's now a penalty
penalty in place means.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
That we can It was always a penalty.

Speaker 6 (29:50):
What was a penalty under you sixty we could do
was tip out alcohol. That's what they could do. Very
late change that.

Speaker 8 (29:59):
Actually we asked the Department before we debated this legislation
because I only got twenty four hours to get my
research done.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
Look, we are going to have to take a very
short break.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
There's no shortage of things to talk about this morning,
but when we come back, we are going to be
talking about the budget. You're listening to Mix one oh
four nine's three sixty. It is the week that was well.
If you have just joined us this morning in the
studio with us from the Northern Territory News, We've got
Alex Tracy, We've got Josh Burgoyne for the COLP and for.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
The Labor Party, Selena Rubo.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Now we know that on Monday next week, the under
Treasurer is set to open the books for territorians, hosting
an open event for people to attend and understand the
state of the Northern Territories budget. It's quite an unprecedented
step from what I can gather. I know the Northern
Territory News then today reporting that the budget remains a
sea of read ink despite a marginally better financial outcome

(30:50):
than forecast. So it's probably going to be quite an
interesting look, it's safe to say, come Monday morning. In
the twelve months to June twenty twenty three, increase by
almost a billion dollars eighteen months since the twenty twenty
three twenty four budget was delivered by the Treasurer Evil Lawler.
The Territory economy ended the financial year are whopping nine

(31:12):
point zero one eight billion dollars in debt with six
hundred and thirty eight million dollar fiscal deficet. However you
look at it, we are certainly struggling when it comes
to the budget.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Look. I think it's going to be interesting come bun Day.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
To have a closer look, for people to have a
closer look, for Territorians to have a closer look at
how it is all sort of tracking along. I think
it's a smart move politically from the COLP, particularly given
the fact that you know that Labour's literally only been
empower a month two months ago.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
It'll be interesting to see what happens uspis Alex.

Speaker 7 (31:48):
Yeah, and look, number one, you know what a great
program or thing to do. You know, I think people
are really drawn to that sort of government transparency. The
other thing tonight, it's pretty well endemic across the OE
c D that not not many governments at all are
finding a way to pay down debt and prevent that

(32:12):
expansion of public sector borrowing. So it's certainly not a
problem that's unique to the NT, and we're certainly not
as far on the road as as as a jurisdiction
like Victoria, they've got incredible amounts of public sector debt.
We carried an editorial in the NT News today that

(32:33):
you know, you can you can find efficiencies at which
the c LP say that they're doing. But at the
end of the day, the only thing that's that's really
going to reverse this is economic growth and and seeing
those those big projects you know, such as Middle Arm
you know, Beaterloo and Barossa, that sort of thing. You know,

(32:56):
you need more tax payers, you need more of those
extractive industries. That's really what's going to fix us here.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
And we need the population to grow again. You know,
that's something that's really important.

Speaker 6 (33:11):
Absolutely, Katie.

Speaker 4 (33:12):
And when we look at what we're going to be
doing over the next four years, it's getting back to
our strengths, ensuring that our mining, gas, tourism, agriculture and
defense are supported, making sure that we get on with
this business of growing the pie.

Speaker 6 (33:24):
We keep talking about this.

Speaker 4 (33:26):
We need to grow our economy, grow our own source
revenue when it comes to these industries, because we know
that's how we will get on top of all.

Speaker 6 (33:33):
This moving forward.

Speaker 4 (33:34):
And we've already been working away ensuring that we can
find efficiencies. As we keep talking about. The Treasure was
very open this week in question time. He raised a
number of issues that obviously, yeah, are going to be
that are going to cost the territory money. But again,
if we can ensure that we have people coming to
the territory, if we can make sure that we can
get on with this gas industry that is going to

(33:56):
bring a lot of people the territory, that is going
to bring royalties to the territories, so that we can
continue to enjoy you know, all the things that we
love our territory, lifestyle here, have health professionals, have police.
That's what this is all about. It's about continuing to
grow that economy into the future and get on top
of this debt because if we don't, it's going to
be a real issue.

Speaker 6 (34:14):
Movie.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
It is always easier said than done.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
But I guess under the former government, Selena, a lot
of people felt like the Labor Party was spending money
like the applying monopoly Katie.

Speaker 8 (34:26):
We did have those pressures and as Alex said, not
unique to the territory. But we're only going to be
focusing on the territory of course, because that's all we
all live.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
And love this place here.

Speaker 8 (34:36):
When it comes to some of that huge debt that
we you know, and we take responsibility.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
For that, we do have the.

Speaker 8 (34:43):
Processes of and you know, the Treasurer sort of talked
about it in the Parliament this week but kind of
ignored or the eight years of work that we did
under Labor was around that public investment. So we set
a steady platform I think it was two point three
billion dollars worth of works to be then creating opportunity
for steady growth in the territory, but particularly in the

(35:04):
region's Katie, because we recognize those areas that Josh talked about.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
He's saying they weren't supported, but they were supported.

Speaker 8 (35:10):
Look at my electure, the electorate to Arnam and I've
got Tyndall Raft based, Katie. There are billions of dollars
of defense work happening and it's not that labor didn't
support it. This all goes into our economy. They're looking
at territory businesses that are contracted, small, medium and large
through the works there in my electorate and a huge
project for the Northern Territory. It means continuing on that

(35:31):
steady platform, we're not going to see the new CLP
government cut their way out of eleven billion dollars worth
of debt. We're not going able to see that. And
they've also added those commitments which they went very publicly
to the territory and election around that. So how are
they going to pay for that? They've also going to be,
you know, they want to say that they're going to
be really stringent money makers. They've also created six new

(35:53):
departments and I had a CLP supporter in Catherine's come
up and say, oh, that's very labor of the CLP
to do that, to expand the public service straight away.
So again, all of those costs, what's it going to mean,
how it's going to be paid for? And you know,
are we going to be robbing Peter to pay Paul.
We just don't have the visibility of that at this point.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Billion described it on the show earlier in the week
as being given a hand grenade. I'd describe it as
a hospital pass what the Labor Party has has given,
you know, passed over to the CLP in the sense
that and please correct me if I've got this figure wrong.
But yesterday I was understand it. In question time as well,
it was revealed that I believe the Health Department had

(36:33):
run over budget two hundred and eighty million dollars in
the last one.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
I was announced in the in the budget earlier this year.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Case a massive amount of money and I understand.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
A huge pressures and health and we still continue to
see the CLP care if there's huge there is that
huge pressure and.

Speaker 8 (36:52):
We know that a lot of that comes from the
cost of staff, our hard working nurses, and unfortunately in
the territory we're having to rely on what we call agency.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
So that's how Saucage position about that plenty of times.

Speaker 8 (37:04):
Sure, And so the piece of work that we worked
on in government was really around how do we attract
those nurses who are on those agency contracts back into
the public service, creating opportunities for flexibility and to be
able to have those options of what they get as
an agency nurse. To then reduce the cost on that.
We don't want to see the health services cut. You
can't cut nurses, you can't cut doctors. We're going to

(37:27):
be seeing lives in jeopardy if health is tinkered with.

Speaker 6 (37:30):
We need to grow our own cadien. And this is
really comes back.

Speaker 4 (37:32):
And I know people get sick and time ers talking
about crime, but it does especially you know, we've seen
across the territory health professionals aren't necessarily wanting to move here.
So what we're doing is we're paying them to come
up all these short term contracts. We see it so
often in our springs, getting in contract.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
Work happening around them.

Speaker 6 (37:47):
This costs so much money.

Speaker 4 (37:49):
So we want to ensure that we can grow our
own here in the territory, get people here, train them up,
ensure that they love what we all love about living
here and keep them here long term. That's how we'll
end up getting some of this control so that we're
not just constantly paying people to fly in, provide their
services and take their money home.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
And look some of the Some level of detail was
also provided throughout the week by the Treasurer in relation
to some of the costs and the spending that we
did see under the former government.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
I know that people have been.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Pretty riled up about the fact that the cost has
been revealed on the so called wear and tear at
Howard Springs after it was used to house flood evacuees
last year. Twelve point seven million dollars of taxpayers money
was spent on operating the facility for a two month
period in March and April. Now, the cleaning and repair
bill was one point three million dollars. That includes four

(38:39):
hundred and sixty nine thousand dollars to replace windows, two
hundred and seventy seven thousand dollars for handyman services, one
hundred and seventy four thousand dollars on plumbing, and eighty
nine grand on mattresses. I mean, Selena, I know that
the former Chief Minister had said.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
That it was wear and tear. Would you describe it
as wear and tear?

Speaker 8 (39:03):
Well, the damage obviously is unacceptable. What happened in that circumstance,
Kadian or unfortunately there is that high bill that and
that's unacceptable. Of course, the operating cost is the operating cost.
That's what it costs to unfortunately look after territorians who
were severely impacted and temporary homework for the operating costs,
and that's what I'd like to make sure that's separated.

(39:23):
So I do appreciate that you read that separately, because
I don't want territory listeners to be misled and thinking
that the costs were twelve minut dollars, so that was
the operating cost. The damage is absolutely unacceptable what happened. Obviously,
the cleaning cost is a little bit separate, because that's
what happens when you've got hundreds of people in a
small quarters for a short, temporary period of time, and

(39:46):
you know there is a separation. There is the operational
and then there is the unacceptable behavior that then created
damage to that facility.

Speaker 7 (39:54):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point, Seleni. You
separate the operating cost is the operating costs. You don't
want to begrudge people for living where they live. That's
just where they live.

Speaker 5 (40:06):
That's where they happened.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
So I evacuated it.

Speaker 7 (40:09):
You know, we're not telling people.

Speaker 5 (40:12):
We're not telling people in lis More the issues.

Speaker 4 (40:15):
The issue for most people here was the fact that
we had two former chief ministers. You know, just say
this is just wear and tear, nothing to worry about.
We've then got the damage bill here over one million
dollars in damages. Obviously, as everyone has said, that's unacceptable,
but the fact that it was you know, I tried
to be swept under the car, but that's just unacceptable.
I think Territorians have obviously had their say in regards
to this facility.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
It's deserve better in terms of wanting the truth, right,
like we want our politicians to be honest and open
and transparent, and you know, like there is there's going
to be things happen from time to time that nobody
agrees with. But if you try and hide that, if
you try and play it down, that's when Territorians call
you bullshit and they say, no, that's not okay.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
I'm not satisfied with that.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
And I think that's a less and for every politician
that's entered Parliament House, you know, under this this next term.

Speaker 8 (41:06):
That's that's a very fair point, Katie, and I do
want to say about the facility.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
It was extremely well run.

Speaker 8 (41:12):
We had government agency as well as non government organizations
working together to support those Territorians in a very you know,
hard and traumatic part of their lives. And it was
such an amazing operation.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
First time that.

Speaker 8 (41:26):
Facility was used, and I think now the last time
because now Defense has the lease on that particular facility,
but it was the first time in using that facility,
managing you know, four different communities and different dynamics within
that facility. I won't talk about the family relationships, but
the way the facility we run was expertly.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
We're gonna have to take Oh sorry, Alex, did you
want to say?

Speaker 7 (41:46):
I was just going to quickly say I thought Treasurer
bill Yan made a good point recently saying, you know,
it would be helpful to have these sorts of facilities
a bit closer to where everyone is. Again, not using
the damage bill unacceptable, but going to Selena's point, very
traumatic time in people's lives. There for two months and

(42:09):
you know you do have a close quarters differently clan
groups who living cheek and jowl who are maybe better
off having a bit more separation. So not excusing that,
but it was a very stressful time in everyone's lives.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
We're going to take a really quick break.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
We're almost out of time. The time flies by in here.
You are listening to mix on O four nine's three sixty.
I can't let you all go this morning without having
a quick chat about the actions of Senator Lydia Thorpe.
Earlier in the week, Selena keen to get your take
considering she thought you're a white man.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
A little while back.

Speaker 8 (42:44):
Yeah, it's an interesting one with Senator Lydia Thorpe, you know, Katie,
and in all seriousness, she's a Senator of Australia. She
really has the responsibilities to make sure that she is
representing the constituency that she has been voted for. Obviously
she's changed, she went from a Greens senator to now
an independent member. But you know there was that controversy

(43:06):
this year then, you know, questions around the constitutional law
of could she still remain a senator if she hasn't
done her swearing in or affirmation and it is something
we take quite seriously as parliamentarians. And for me, Katie,
obviously I'm a politician or a parliamentarian here in the
Northern Territory, more so an average a woman who's in politics.
So you know, there's a huge amount of other levels

(43:27):
of debate and around politics when you're a person of
color and you're in politics and the way to the
world and the response around what you think about something.
Do you represent just your constituency, Are you representing your party?
Are you representing your nationality in terms of your race
and your cultural background. So I think she didn't do
the right thing in that particular setting. I understand why

(43:50):
she did it. I'm not disputing that in her beliefs
and her values. But at the end of the day,
she's on a two hundred and thirty thousand dollar pay
salary to become to be an Australian senator. That is
a huge responsibility and you're not just representing Aboriginal people,
Abjure Victorians, You're representing everyone in your constituency and she
needs to keep that in mind.

Speaker 6 (44:11):
Good boy, I hit the nail on the head.

Speaker 4 (44:12):
I might not agree with everything Selena says, but I
respect the position, the fact that she's been elected like
everyone else in Parliament. So for a senator to then
go after the king, whether or not you agree with everything,
you respect the position, and I think that's what's really
frustrated me. You stand up there, swear allegiance and you
take the pay salary, but then you come out and
you have a crack, and it's like, well, hang on.

(44:33):
You either want to be a part of the system,
an attempt to make change from within, or you buger
off and you go and stand with everyone else on
the street waving placards. I mean, at the end of
the day, it is I don't care what anyone says.
I used to be a sparking work on forty degree roofs.
You come and you become a politician and everyone has
got an opinion about you. I've been chased down the street.
I've been with my family on a Sunday buying graceries

(44:54):
and had people get stuck into me.

Speaker 6 (44:56):
And I tell you what, you take it all the
good with the bad.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
So at the end of the day, for what she
did in the Australian Parliament.

Speaker 6 (45:04):
To go after the king like that was wrong. Whether
you agree or not.

Speaker 4 (45:07):
And it's just like have a bit of respect for
the positions because you've got to where you are as
a result of that system.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
It was interesting, wasn't it. Alex?

Speaker 7 (45:16):
Just two quick points I'd like to add. Number one,
I think if you're an if you're elected on a
party ticket and then you resign that membership, you go
and sit as an independent, I really think you should
have to seek another mandate. She's only in there because
she was aligned with the Greens. You know senators in

(45:37):
Australia they get no votes below the line, so that's
why she's there. You should seek another mandate, I think.
And number two, whether it was right or wrong, it
was certainly very successful in terms of her goals, getting
international BBC, CNN coverage, putting Aboriginal Australian rights on the agenda.

(45:58):
She achieved her goal. Whether you agree with it or not,
it was it was strategically quite bold.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
I suppose it's look, I think it's an interesting way
that some people are choosing to enter politics in Australia
at the moment, not so much as politicians and trying
to enact change from within, but in there to agitate
is what it comes across to me, and I could
be wrong, but I feel as though, you know, that's
her whole aim is to be an agitator, and I

(46:25):
think that you know, all of us can stand out
there and complain and bitch about everything and agitate about everything,
but at some point you've got to step up and
you've got to go, all right, how am I actually
going to enforce change? And is agitating and shitster and
going to do it?

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Well? Not always?

Speaker 8 (46:41):
You know, that's a great point, Katie, because there is
a difference between disruption, So it means that something stops,
it holts, but then it goes back to normal. So
when you really want something to change, it has to
be transformation and change making.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
I think that's the difference.

Speaker 8 (46:54):
Agitation and disruption means that after you go or whatever
then is removed, everything goes back to the status quo.
And if we're really in these jobs to make change
and transformation, that's what we need to focus on.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
And that's what my focus is.

Speaker 6 (47:07):
It's about working with people.

Speaker 4 (47:09):
And the fact that she's left a party she was with,
so she now even has less influence, less ability to
change what's going to be happening going forward. It just
shows that if you can't work with the people that
got you into where you are, well them, what are
you doing? I mean, this is the whole thing. Politics
is about compromise, it's about working with people to get.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
The good outcat to get the good outcomes.

Speaker 4 (47:28):
That's exactly right. Look, just frustrating to see this sort
of happening. And as Alex said, we're all talking about it,
so she's achieved what she wanted.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
Alex Tracy from the Northern Territory and News. Lovely to
have you in the studio.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Thanks mate, thanks.

Speaker 5 (47:41):
For having me. Thanks to all your listeners as well.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Joshua Burgoyne, thank you for joining us from Alice Springs,
the Minister for I'm still getting my head around everyone's portfolios, lands,
Planning and Environment.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Lovely to have you in the studio.

Speaker 6 (47:53):
Thank you, Katie, really appreciate you having us.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Selena Rubo, the Opposition leader and Opposition spokesperson for various portfolio,
Thank you so much for you.

Speaker 8 (48:01):
Thank you, Katie, and a big happy World Teachers Day
to all of our educated World Teachers Day today.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Absolutely good stuff.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
Thank you,