Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now we know that it is being reported that Larakia
elder Doctor Richard Fijo has quit us the chair of
the Darwin Waterfront in stand against the COLP lowering the
age of criminal responsibility. He said, I've resigned as the
chairman of the norm Waterfront Corporation in protest because I
refuse to work for a government who's responsible for locking
(00:20):
up ten year old children. He went on to say,
everyone knows very well don Dale is full of Aboriginal children,
and I'll take my place with my people, and I'm
here to make a very clear statement that I will
not play any part of this, not in any way,
shape or form. Doctor Richard Fijo joins me on the line.
(00:42):
Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Richard, Good morning Katie.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. Richard. This
is a big call. Why did you decide to stand down?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Because it shouldn't happen in the first place. It's unjust
and it's unreasonable and it's unnecessary. And we have the
people have voted in a government that is basically brought
in laws against children. And I'm not just talking about
Abaginal to children. I'm talking about any child that's ten
(01:18):
years or younger has the potential of being arrested. And
I worked for Average and Legal Aid from ninety four
to ninety eight, and I also worked as a paralegal
in a Legal Aid commission, so I've done my justice homework.
I used to go to the Correctional Service of Berrima
(01:38):
and I used to talk with the man. We used
to go to the Old don Dale and I used
to talk to the children there and I've seen firsthand
with my own eyes the conditions of those places. And
it's inconceivable that any government or society would condone this
happening to ten years old people because they're humans, and
(02:03):
you know, where is the human factor in this? This
is unacceptable Richard.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
What did you take into consideration before making this decision
and what discussions did you have before making this decision.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I had a lot of people calling me from the
community and the concerned, and they're scared because it's blatantly
obviously that this is obvious, that this is targeting Aboriginal people.
They're building more presence, they're building the police force. We
have a history from first encounters of being incarceration, and
(02:40):
there's so many pictures out there in black and white
of old men with chains on the necks. This is
absurd that this is happening in the year twenty twenty four,
twenty five.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Was it a difficult decision for you to make because
I know that you have done a lot of hard
work there at the Dale and Waterfront. You've done a
lot as well in terms of really, you know, bringing
culture to that role and bringing culture to the whole
Northern Territory community.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I do see myself as a person who is who
believes in reconciliation. Yeah, and this is not reconciliation. This
is a breakdown and separation of us in them in community,
and this is a threat. This is what's going to happen.
Everyone can see what's going to happen is a whole
(03:33):
bunch of Aboriginal kids are going to get locked up,
and let's just say how it is. Then there's going
to be a white kid that gets locked up, and
then they're going to change the laws because they happen
to a white person. That's discrimination.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Richard. We've got a lot of victims of crime who
listen to this show. Some of them have been targeted
by kids who are very young. Some of them may
not feel that kids as young as ten should go
into detention. But they feel that there needs to be
consequences if a crime is committed. What do you say
to those victims?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Okay, first of all, that not all offenders are Aboriginal
because no, but.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I didn't say that. Yeah, I certainly didn't say that,
Nor am I suggestion.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah I am saying that because there's a perception that
these are just Aboriginal kids. And yes there's a lot
of Aboriginal kids, but where was the investment into their parents,
into their communities. Is the wrong direction to lock up
Aboriginal children, They're just going to make They're going to
(04:38):
take bad kids are sorry, good kids and turn them
into bad kids.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Richard, I know they'll be people listen. I know there'll
be people listening this morning. Who are who are saying?
You know, we're talking about in some instances, kids who've
committed quite a number of crimes. You know, last week,
for example, we had you know, young people that were
a little bit older, thirteen to fifteen, who were on
(05:04):
bail when they then they then stole another vehicle in
the Northern suburbs. They allegedly went on a crime spree
around the Northern suburbs and not only put their own
lives in danger, but the lives of others.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Well, you know, to be fair, I actually worked in
the police station as well, so I've seen both sides
of the fence, and I've seen the good work that
the police do as well. Well. What happened to community policing,
What happened to the politics around taking care of the
community and investing into the family structures and to the
educational systems. This is a knee jerk reaction that is
(05:43):
going to blow up back into the face of the
government and into the community. And everyone knows it, and
they'll see it in a few years time, and it's
to me it's a breach of human rights for the child.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Richard. One of the things that I hear, you know,
quite regularly on the show from people, and I think
that this is probably why we saw such a huge vote,
you know, for the COLP, for the tougher on crime
policies in the lead into the election. One of the
things that I hear is, you know, Katie, it feels
like for the last eight years what the government did
just was not working.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, and so what the government's doing now is I'm
saying it upfront. It's not going to work. It's actually
going to make things worse. And I've said this, You're
going to take good children and put them in a
place where there's influenced, bad influence, and what do you
expect the result to be. It's going to be bad
children coming out of there. Negative will influence negative. So
(06:43):
you know, for me as a person, as a traditional owner,
I have to protect my community because it's very clear
to me that this is targeting my first nation's community
and I will come to their defense.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Richard. Some of the messages coming through this morning on
the tech signe one that says, Katie, this isn't about
targeting Aboriginal children, it's about targeting kids who are breaking
the law.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Well, I would say, check the stats in don Dale.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Richard. Look, you know, I've got a lot of respect
for you. I think that you do a phenomenal job.
You and I have spoken on so many occasions and
agreeing with what you've got to say in the sense
that they've been victims of crime and they're very concerned
about the issues that we are still experiencing when it
comes to crime. You know, one of the things that
I also hear though I've had a grandmother get in
(07:38):
contact with me in recent weeks, I've also had a
mum get in contact with me last week who said, Katie,
my child is on the wrong track and there's actually
no programs for them, there's no support for them to
try to get them on the right.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Track, and there your lies in the solution. That is
one hundred percent my point, Katie. Yes, it should not
matter whether their first nation children or not. They need
to be programs, preventative programs so they don't end up
in prison or under arrest in the first place.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Richard. This morning, we know that the Northern Territory government
or the Department of Corrections have said that they've started
moving young people that are in the that we're in,
the old don Dale into the new youth detention center,
the Holts Youth Detention Center. They're saying it's purpose built,
that it is the new facility's got rehabilitation strategies. They're
(08:40):
going to provide young people with the life and vocational
skills required to choose a better path once they leave detention.
What do you make of that.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
A cage is a cage. They shouldn't be in a
cage in the first place, irrelevant of color. And that's
actually you've just testified that by saying about the non
Aboriginal grandmother talking about the children where the government had
the opportunity, I.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Will just say, I actually don't know whether she was
Indigenous or non indigenous, to be honest with you, same
as the mum who got in contact with me. I
actually have no idea whether they are indigenous or non indigenous.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Again, my point is it's irrelevant that we're talking about
children here, so there should be They shouldn't be in
a cage. They shouldn't be And I used to work
with law and mandatory sentence and came in that was
brought in by Shanstone. I used to do community legal education,
(09:40):
and I used to go to schools, and I used
to talk to parents about their rights when they get arrested.
And this needs to reoccur again. We are on a
very defensive footing at the moment for First Nations people
because it's we know about the institution or racism that
(10:01):
exists in the systems. You know, we know it exists.
The statistics, the facts tell us this exists. So no
one can say to me that this is not targeting
First Nations people. That is absolute discrimination, and it's feeding
out into the streets and it's feeding being fed through
(10:23):
social media. But where are the facts? I'm talking about statistics,
And we know everyone knows how many Aboriginal kids are
in don Dale. Everyone knows that. Let's not get ourselves here,
you know. But you know what, like I'm saying, where
are the tree measures? They're talking about programs that happen
(10:48):
after the fact. They're saying, Oh, once we're in jail,
we can rehabilitate them through programs. Where's the program to
stop them from going to jail in the first place?
And that is my argument. And it doesn't matter whether
they black, white, or brindled. Yeah, their ten year old kids,
we're talking about the human rights factors they do not have.
(11:08):
And I'm pretty sure any doctor will tell you and
their ten year old child will not have the mental
capacity to understand that they're committing a crime.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Richard, we are going to have to get ready to
wrap up. I always appreciate your time, and you know,
I respect the fact that you're standing by what you
think is you know, what you think is right. I
always respect that in anybody that stands up for what
they believe in.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Thank you, Katie. And you know I do expect people
to throw it back at me. But I have made
a crew of being an a cultural educator and I
will educate the community and our history and our current
and statistics in our facts because today is where we
decide the future.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Richard, what's next for you? What are you going to
be doing next now that you've stepped away from from
your previous role.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Well, I can't leave that secret out, Katie. I'll be
able to save some surprises and keep some trick.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Well, when you decide you know where to come, you're
straight on air with me to let us know.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
All right, you will know you will, and it's going
to be amazing.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Oh good on you will, doctor Richard Fijo. I always
appreciate your time. Thank you so much for having a
chat with me this.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Morning, anytime, Katie, Thank you, thank you
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Thanks so much.
Now we know that it is being reported that Larakia
elder Doctor Richard Fijo has quit us the chair of
the Darwin Waterfront in stand against the COLP lowering the
age of criminal responsibility. He said, I've resigned as the
chairman of the norm Waterfront Corporation in protest because I
refuse to work for a government who's responsible for locking
(00:20):
up ten year old children. He went on to say,
everyone knows very well don Dale is full of Aboriginal children,
and I'll take my place with my people, and I'm
here to make a very clear statement that I will
not play any part of this, not in any way,
shape or form. Doctor Richard Fijo joins me on the line.
(00:42):
Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Richard, Good morning Katie.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. Richard. This
is a big call. Why did you decide to stand down?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Because it shouldn't happen in the first place. It's unjust
and it's unreasonable and it's unnecessary. And we have the
people have voted in a government that is basically brought
in laws against children. And I'm not just talking about
Abaginal to children. I'm talking about any child that's ten
(01:18):
years or younger has the potential of being arrested. And
I worked for Average and Legal Aid from ninety four
to ninety eight, and I also worked as a paralegal
in a Legal Aid commission, so I've done my justice homework.
I used to go to the Correctional Service of Berrima
(01:38):
and I used to talk with the man. We used
to go to the Old don Dale and I used
to talk to the children there and I've seen firsthand
with my own eyes the conditions of those places. And
it's inconceivable that any government or society would condone this
happening to ten years old people because they're humans, and
(02:03):
you know, where is the human factor in this? This
is unacceptable Richard.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
What did you take into consideration before making this decision
and what discussions did you have before making this decision.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I had a lot of people calling me from the
community and the concerned, and they're scared because it's blatantly
obviously that this is obvious, that this is targeting Aboriginal people.
They're building more presence, they're building the police force. We
have a history from first encounters of being incarceration, and
(02:40):
there's so many pictures out there in black and white
of old men with chains on the necks. This is
absurd that this is happening in the year twenty twenty four,
twenty five.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Was it a difficult decision for you to make because
I know that you have done a lot of hard
work there at the Dale and Waterfront. You've done a
lot as well in terms of really, you know, bringing
culture to that role and bringing culture to the whole
Northern Territory community.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I do see myself as a person who is who
believes in reconciliation. Yeah, and this is not reconciliation. This
is a breakdown and separation of us in them in community,
and this is a threat. This is what's going to happen.
Everyone can see what's going to happen is a whole
(03:33):
bunch of Aboriginal kids are going to get locked up,
and let's just say how it is. Then there's going
to be a white kid that gets locked up, and
then they're going to change the laws because they happen
to a white person. That's discrimination.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Richard. We've got a lot of victims of crime who
listen to this show. Some of them have been targeted
by kids who are very young. Some of them may
not feel that kids as young as ten should go
into detention. But they feel that there needs to be
consequences if a crime is committed. What do you say
to those victims?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Okay, first of all, that not all offenders are Aboriginal
because no, but.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I didn't say that. Yeah, I certainly didn't say that,
Nor am I suggestion.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah I am saying that because there's a perception that
these are just Aboriginal kids. And yes there's a lot
of Aboriginal kids, but where was the investment into their parents,
into their communities. Is the wrong direction to lock up
Aboriginal children, They're just going to make They're going to
(04:38):
take bad kids are sorry, good kids and turn them
into bad kids.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Richard, I know they'll be people listen. I know there'll
be people listening this morning. Who are who are saying?
You know, we're talking about in some instances, kids who've
committed quite a number of crimes. You know, last week,
for example, we had you know, young people that were
a little bit older, thirteen to fifteen, who were on
(05:04):
bail when they then they then stole another vehicle in
the Northern suburbs. They allegedly went on a crime spree
around the Northern suburbs and not only put their own
lives in danger, but the lives of others.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Well, you know, to be fair, I actually worked in
the police station as well, so I've seen both sides
of the fence, and I've seen the good work that
the police do as well. Well. What happened to community policing,
What happened to the politics around taking care of the
community and investing into the family structures and to the
educational systems. This is a knee jerk reaction that is
(05:43):
going to blow up back into the face of the
government and into the community. And everyone knows it, and
they'll see it in a few years time, and it's
to me it's a breach of human rights for the child.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Richard. One of the things that I hear, you know,
quite regularly on the show from people, and I think
that this is probably why we saw such a huge vote,
you know, for the COLP, for the tougher on crime
policies in the lead into the election. One of the
things that I hear is, you know, Katie, it feels
like for the last eight years what the government did
just was not working.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, and so what the government's doing now is I'm
saying it upfront. It's not going to work. It's actually
going to make things worse. And I've said this, You're
going to take good children and put them in a
place where there's influenced, bad influence, and what do you
expect the result to be. It's going to be bad
children coming out of there. Negative will influence negative. So
(06:43):
you know, for me as a person, as a traditional owner,
I have to protect my community because it's very clear
to me that this is targeting my first nation's community
and I will come to their defense.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Richard. Some of the messages coming through this morning on
the tech signe one that says, Katie, this isn't about
targeting Aboriginal children, it's about targeting kids who are breaking
the law.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Well, I would say, check the stats in don Dale.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Richard. Look, you know, I've got a lot of respect
for you. I think that you do a phenomenal job.
You and I have spoken on so many occasions and
agreeing with what you've got to say in the sense
that they've been victims of crime and they're very concerned
about the issues that we are still experiencing when it
comes to crime. You know, one of the things that
I also hear though I've had a grandmother get in
(07:38):
contact with me in recent weeks, I've also had a
mum get in contact with me last week who said, Katie,
my child is on the wrong track and there's actually
no programs for them, there's no support for them to
try to get them on the right.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Track, and there your lies in the solution. That is
one hundred percent my point, Katie. Yes, it should not
matter whether their first nation children or not. They need
to be programs, preventative programs so they don't end up
in prison or under arrest in the first place.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Richard. This morning, we know that the Northern Territory government
or the Department of Corrections have said that they've started
moving young people that are in the that we're in,
the old don Dale into the new youth detention center,
the Holts Youth Detention Center. They're saying it's purpose built,
that it is the new facility's got rehabilitation strategies. They're
(08:40):
going to provide young people with the life and vocational
skills required to choose a better path once they leave detention.
What do you make of that.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
A cage is a cage. They shouldn't be in a
cage in the first place, irrelevant of color. And that's
actually you've just testified that by saying about the non
Aboriginal grandmother talking about the children where the government had
the opportunity, I.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Will just say, I actually don't know whether she was
Indigenous or non indigenous, to be honest with you, same
as the mum who got in contact with me. I
actually have no idea whether they are indigenous or non indigenous.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Again, my point is it's irrelevant that we're talking about
children here, so there should be They shouldn't be in
a cage. They shouldn't be And I used to work
with law and mandatory sentence and came in that was
brought in by Shanstone. I used to do community legal education,
(09:40):
and I used to go to schools, and I used
to talk to parents about their rights when they get arrested.
And this needs to reoccur again. We are on a
very defensive footing at the moment for First Nations people
because it's we know about the institution or racism that
(10:01):
exists in the systems. You know, we know it exists.
The statistics, the facts tell us this exists. So no
one can say to me that this is not targeting
First Nations people. That is absolute discrimination, and it's feeding
out into the streets and it's feeding being fed through
(10:23):
social media. But where are the facts? I'm talking about statistics,
And we know everyone knows how many Aboriginal kids are
in don Dale. Everyone knows that. Let's not get ourselves here,
you know. But you know what, like I'm saying, where
are the tree measures? They're talking about programs that happen
(10:48):
after the fact. They're saying, Oh, once we're in jail,
we can rehabilitate them through programs. Where's the program to
stop them from going to jail in the first place?
And that is my argument. And it doesn't matter whether
they black, white, or brindled. Yeah, their ten year old kids,
we're talking about the human rights factors they do not have.
(11:08):
And I'm pretty sure any doctor will tell you and
their ten year old child will not have the mental
capacity to understand that they're committing a crime.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Richard, we are going to have to get ready to
wrap up. I always appreciate your time, and you know,
I respect the fact that you're standing by what you
think is you know, what you think is right. I
always respect that in anybody that stands up for what
they believe in.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Thank you, Katie. And you know I do expect people
to throw it back at me. But I have made
a crew of being an a cultural educator and I
will educate the community and our history and our current
and statistics in our facts because today is where we
decide the future.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Richard, what's next for you? What are you going to
be doing next now that you've stepped away from from
your previous role.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Well, I can't leave that secret out, Katie. I'll be
able to save some surprises and keep some trick.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Well, when you decide you know where to come, you're
straight on air with me to let us know.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
All right, you will know you will, and it's going
to be amazing.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Oh good on you will, doctor Richard Fijo. I always
appreciate your time. Thank you so much for having a
chat with me this.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Morning, anytime, Katie, Thank you, thank you
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Thanks so much.
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