The Week That Was – 15th November 2024

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well you are listening to the week that was and
another busy morning, no doubt, and a bit of a
different line up this morning because joining me in the
studio we've got the Attorney General for the Northern Territory,
the Colps, Marie clear Booth be good morning to you.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Good morning Katie and to your listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
And we have indeed got the NT News first time
he's on the show. Harry Brol Good morning to you,
Good morning Katie, lovely to have you on the show.
We've got the Independent Justine Davis, Good morning to you, Justine.
Hey Katie, lovely to have you on the show and
joining us live on the line. We don't usually do
a phone hook up, but we're more than happy to
this morning for Durran Young who's joining us live from What.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
A good a duran Ah, Good morning Katie and yeah,
so good morning to listenism on the side of the
road near.

Speaker 4 (00:45):
Daily River, Honey, Daily River. Thank you mate.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
We appreciate you finding a good spot. So you've got
coverage for us for the hour and there is so
much to discuss, so we're really keen to make sure
that we had you on the show. Now, let's first
take a look at the situation that's folded in the
last twenty four hours with the investigation into racism within
the Northern Territory Police Force, which previously uncovered racist towards

(01:08):
deemed too offensive for public release. It's found no further
evidence of racist behavior in the force since twenty fifteen
and concluded that the matter be closed now. Patricia Kelly,
sc the person leading the investigation while the IKAX Michael
Richards remains on indefinite leave, said that despite making no
recommendations or prosecutions, the investigation had largely fulfilled one of

(01:33):
its objectives by highlighting historical evidence of racism within the
Elite Territory Response Group, the terg Police Unit now the
Northern Territory Government, issuing a statement yesterday saying the report
makes no adverse findings and the investigation is now closed.
I mean, is that dune and dusted, Mary Clare or realistically,

(01:56):
do we need to accept that there has been racism
within the force and whether that is ongoing or not?

Speaker 4 (02:01):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
I'm not a member of the police force, but do
we need to accept that things need to change?

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Katie? That investigation was dating back to twenty fifteen and
those allegations made, and of course this report has been
handed down. It did find that there were no adverse
findings and of course he's closed and the SELP never
supported the view that there was systemic racism without our
anti police. There was definitely nothing found in the most

(02:28):
recent future that warrants another more investigations in that space.
And we know that our police work extremely hard out
there on the front line, and you know, it's a
lot of anguish for them to go through this and
to be all tired with the same brush, and so
you know, we want everyone to move on. Now, let's
get on with the job and you know, make the
territory a safe place.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Douran, you're coming to us live this morning from as
you said, other side of the road there out near
Daily River. You are an indigenous man, I mean, do
you accept these findings?

Speaker 4 (02:55):
What do you make of it all?

Speaker 3 (02:58):
Look, I've been troubling this week, so I haven't actually
had a had time to actually delve into the report
at the moment, but I will be having a look
over the weekend. But from what I understand, there were
some comments in that report around the historic racism. I
think it was in relation to the TRG that that's
been addressed and within the police force. I understand the
Police Commissioner, Michael Murphy himself is looking at internal processes

(03:26):
or ways we've working with Aboriginal people internally the police force,
so that I think recognizing at first from a police
commissioner is the first step. And we'll just see what
is to come from this report.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
Yeah, thanks justin.

Speaker 5 (03:44):
Yeah, look, no question that our police work really hard.
They're really under a source. They need to be supported
to do their job well. But it's bizarre to me
this outcome. I mean, I think when you look at
what the outcome said, the report said, one of the
things I said, which is a great concern, should be
a great concern to all of us, is that IKAK

(04:05):
doesn't have the resources to conduct any further wide ranging investigations.
This is our body, our integrity body here that we
are charging with doing this work for us. They also
said that it will be difficult to conclude how any
person of reasonable intelligence could conclude otherwise than that there
was racism, you know, in what they're investigating. And as

(04:29):
Duran said, the Police Commissioner has come out at GAMA,
but also yesterday saying that one of the things that
he's committed to is addressing the culture of the police
force to make sure that these issues are addressed. I
think saying let's push these put these issues to bed
and move on is not good enough. They're there. I
don't agree that there is. You know that there's nothing

(04:51):
to see here, and many people I know in my
community don't agree either. In order to move on, in
order to have a strong police force, in order to
have good relationships in our community, we need to actually
be looking at this staff, airing it and then working
out what we're going to do about it.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Justin do you think that there is systemic racism within
the Northern Territory Police Force.

Speaker 5 (05:11):
I think that we've seen lots of evidence, and including
in what iqaq's looking at here, including in some of
the coronials that have been conducted recently, where it will
be difficult to conclude otherwise.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
In terms of the resourcing of the IKAC like, I
think that this is something that we've all been looking
at for quite some time as well, and looking at
that resourcing now obviously we all understand that we're in
a situation right now where the IKAC commissioner is on
indefinite leave.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
I mean, like, I'm just.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Not sure where we go from here with the IICAC, Like,
are we in a situation where if there isn't the
capacity to do further investigating if we you know, if
we've got a commissioner that's on indefinite leave, Like, how.

Speaker 4 (05:55):
Do we move forward from this point with the IKAK.

Speaker 6 (05:59):
Well, older thought that this would be a hits of
public confidence. It's been a very turbulent couple of years
regarding investigation into police culture. AYKAK have had plenty of
cases put forward to it of a variety of natures,
and we get a verdict that goes completely against the
wind of what people expected. I'd like to ask yourself,

(06:20):
Marie Claire, but do you think that people do have
a lack of confidence in NIKAK?

Speaker 2 (06:25):
I think when it comes to the when you said that,
you know, not people were expecting this kind of result.
I mean most people that I speak to, in particular,
they don't believe that we have systemic racism currently in
our police force. And yet we do have the commissioner
who he recognizes that it potentially could be a problem
there Because we live in a society that we live in.
So he has gone and put in place a very

(06:49):
senior person within our community who's working alongside him to
talk to all of his team about you know, the
way in which they do their dealings every day and
the way that they can be culturally sensitive. I mean
the eye caack.

Speaker 4 (07:02):
An really and little you mean, yeah, that's right, you know.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Very well respected person who can and can really put
forward change. And I think when we look back in
the past, I mean one of the overwhelming things in
the election was that people want to change. And so
you know, that's that's what we're looking at doing from
a government perspective. Like everything we look at, we're like, okay,
what is working and what is not, let's go and
change that.

Speaker 4 (07:25):
So do you think the iye Cack's working.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
I mean, do you think we're in a situation right
now where there does need to be a review either
of these resources or we need to maybe go all right,
we have or we have not got enough for the IYICACK.

Speaker 4 (07:37):
I mean they've been saying, the IKACK.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
Office has been saying for a number of years that
they really do require further funding. So if we're going
to have an office of the iy CAACK and if
we're going to have this operation, do we need to
make sure that it's actually funded adequately.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
I think for a jurisdiction of our size, we have
a lot of different bodies that do a lot of
different work, and you know, sometimes that becomes challenging because
we are quite small and everybody knows one another from
I believe that all of those things should be looked at,
and there's a new government, that's what we're doing. I
don't have those answers for you today, Katie, but I
think it's important that people remember that, you know, we

(08:13):
are a new government that suit the jurisdiction that we have.
Then we're going to do that.

Speaker 5 (08:17):
And at the end of the day, what we need
to make sure is that our institutions, including our Integrity Commission,
can do its job properly and that people have confidence
in it. And I think, as Harry said, it's difficult
to know how people can have confidence in it when
they're coming out with findings like this and saying at

(08:37):
the same time, but actually we don't even have the resources.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Let's not forget that it wasn't that long ago that
we had the investigation into the travel of our former.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
Chief Minister Michael Gunner.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
And two, you know, looking into the office of the
travel that was done in the lead into the twenty
twenty election. Now there were some really serious concerns there
as well, and you do sort of start to question.
I mean, that report did indeed show that there was
certainly things happening that the public would not expect and
would not actually think was appropriate. I think is probably

(09:09):
the right word when it comes to politician travel before
an election. But it does go back to the point
that you've made their justine about whether the kaks adequately
resourced and what next for it.

Speaker 5 (09:19):
Yeah, and I think we're at a stage where people
are deeply distrustful of many of our public institutions of politicians,
and we need to do whatever we can to address that.
I mean that distrust is not always without reason, and
I think if there are, we need to make sure
that we've looked at what's behind that and address those
causes and got the frameworks in place and the institutions

(09:42):
properly supported to do it whatever they look like. And
right now it doesn't look that we do.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
And that's right because over the last eight years we
have had a you know, we've got a lot of
mistrust of governments and politicians because of you know, the
way in which people have been treated, a lot of
talk about what they were going to do and then
it not happening, and I mean those kind of things.

Speaker 5 (10:02):
I think it's longer than eighty it.

Speaker 4 (10:03):
Probably Olive Duran, Sorry I heard you king to talk there.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah, no, like Look, I was just going to say
that the whole point and the reason that the Independent
Commissioner was set up was because of the CLP government's
behavior and misconduct during that twenty twelve twenty sixteen period.
And that was an election promised by Michael Gunner.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
Oh, but it continued on. Unfortunately it continued on, d
run Katie.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
The point of the IKAK Commissioner that doesn't allow any
government to be immune from being investigated. That is why
the body set up so the government they'll be investigated
by IKAK. That's what it's established for. It's independent. It
allows for them to address, you know, if there's any
improper conduct with any administration, to be able for them

(10:52):
to have a lookout.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Look.

Speaker 4 (10:53):
We might take a very quick break.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
You are indeed listening to Mix one O four nine's
three sixty eight is the week that was and coming
your way next, we are actually going to be discussing
the Territory Coordinator role. Well, if you have just joined us,
we are indeed, well we've got a bit of a different.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
Line up this morning.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Duran Young's joining us from the side of the road
out near the Daily River community.

Speaker 4 (11:14):
Can you still hear us there, Duran?

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Let's see if I can get him back online. Hopefully
we've got him there. We will make sure we do, Duran.
Can you hear us all right? We will make sure
we can.

Speaker 4 (11:25):
Good stuff.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
We've also got in this studio, of course, Murray Clear Booby,
Harry Brill from the NT News and of course the
Independent Justine Davis. Now, one of the big announcements sets
been made over the last last well we sort of,
I mean we've known about this, we've known it was
coming for quite some time, I guess, the Territory Coordinator
role and territorians are now being encouraged to have their

(11:46):
say on the draft Territory Coordinator Bill, which the government
say is going to redefine the way that business is
done in.

Speaker 4 (11:53):
The Northern Territory.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
The Territory Coordinator delivers on a commitment that they made.

Speaker 4 (11:58):
The Government says.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
At both the twenty two and twenty twenty acting in
that role.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
Is Stuart Knowles. He will act as the.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Interim Territory Coordinator, the Chief Minister saying that Stuart has
extensive experience across both the private and public sectors and
brings a wealth of local knowledge through his deep connections
and understanding to the Northern territories unique challenges and opportunities.
Now there's been a lot said about Stuart being appointed
as the Interim Territory Coordinator.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
I know that the Environment.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
Center had sort of questioned it given the fact that
his most recent role was indeed with impects as the
general manager of IMPEX. Now I will say, and hopefully
Stuart doesn't mind me saying, I worked with Stuart about
fifteen years ago in Parliament House for the then Labor
Minister Rob Knight.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
So he's actually worked.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Across quite a few sort of different areas. But nonetheless,
you know, I think whoever really was appointed to that
interim role, there was probably going to be sort of
some questions raised about who they are and you know,
their qualification. But the big point that's been made Mari
Clair is you know, making sure and a lot of
people holding concerns about just how much power this role

(13:07):
is going to have.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
I think, Katie, it's really important with this particular bill
is that we are being very transparent about it. We
have talked about it for many years, like you said,
both in twenty twenty and in twenty twenty four. We
even tried to bring something similar to Parliament in the
last term, which of course Labor knocked down because we
knew that the territory had been suffering. We hadn't seen
any of their major projects come to fruition. This is

(13:30):
such an important part of what is needed for the
territory economy. We can't keep going down the same track
of looking for things that are losers, if you like,
like projects that just don't get off the ground. Because
we absolutely need stimulus here in the territory and projects
of such significance requires to do things differently in the territory.
This particular bill is not new. There are other states

(13:51):
that are doing so. It's certainly it's no surprise to
Australians that this is happening. And if we don't do
this bill, we actually will not be able to compete
with the rest of the country, and that's been the problem,
like people try and come and invest money in the
territory and they just go somewhere else because it's too hard.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Well, not only the too hard basket can sometimes be
the issue, but what we've also seen as well in
recent years is that we're not actually able to get
a major project off the ground, or some of those
projects that have been given a major project status we've
then seen really not come to fruition. And then this
week we had a situation where the Chief Minister had
confirmed that their serious concerns.

Speaker 4 (14:28):
Around the amphibious aircraft project.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
She told us on the show earlier in the week
that they've paid back their two million dollar loan, but
that three million dollar equity state that Territorians have in
that company is now sort of being questioned now AAI
were it pains to say that they are still planning
to operate in the Northern Territory, but sources have told
us on the show that they're no longer operating out
of that hangar that they once had out at the

(14:51):
Darwin Airport, So you know that is part of it too.
I think with I hope with this Territory Coordinator role
that it's not just about approvals processes, but it's actually
also about making sure that any business or any company
that we're then deciding to invest in or we're wanting
to have come to the Northern Territory, that we're actually
doing our homework to make sure that they're going to

(15:13):
get off.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
The ground absolutely, and it does require a lot in
that space to make that happen, because we don't want
to see what we've seen over the last number of
years where things are talked about but then never happen.
And so this particular bill it's about ensuring that we
can not only have a group of people at a
Territory Coordinator and Stuart who can go out and find
investment for the territory, but that that department can also

(15:36):
go through the due diligence of those projects, and some
of them are a long process, of course. And instead
of individually going through pieces of legislation, which has been
done in the past where you create a piece of
legislation which then almost trumps every other piece of legislation
for one particular project, this one allows us to have

(15:56):
a framework in the beginning to say this is the
rules of the game. Everyone knows what it is either
investors and territorians, and of course that bill itself like
it'll be the most overexposed piece of legislation that we've
seen in a very long time. It's going to be
out for consultation for a very long time.

Speaker 6 (16:12):
On the other side of the corn though, too, we've
also heard from some people traditional owners and environmentalist they've
said that there is an issue with this bill. They're
saying that this is a way to cut corners, potentially
encroach on people's rights and so forth. Justin I'd love
to hear from you in a second on this one,
but what assurances do you have for territories that this
isn't going to be a used in abuse power.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
The whole point about the Territory Coordinator is that there
is able to be that real, true consultation. I mean,
this is as benefiting for all territorians, environmental groups and
digital traditional owners as any other person, because we want
to make sure that the projects can come in and
get off the ground without all the pushback that you

(16:54):
have in other places and that we've had in the
last eight years. We see this as an absolute game
changer for the territory to be competitive in Australia, let
alone the world, and that is what's needed here.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
I mean, justin you've had real concerns about this right
from the get go. As I know, DURAN has all
got DURAN in a moment. But what do you make
of now the fact that they've come out, they've got
the consultation paper. It's got to get under way, but
also appointed the interim the person.

Speaker 5 (17:18):
Yeah, look, and consultation is great, it's really good. I'm
really pleased as many people I know in the community
that there is now an open, expanded consultation process.

Speaker 4 (17:30):
It's still there's still really.

Speaker 5 (17:32):
Major concerns, you know, in terms of what was released yesterday,
and I haven't had a time, you know, the chance
to look through it properly and in a detailed way.
But we know that the overreach in these laws remains,
and that's a really great concern, not only to the
projects that it might impact on and to our to

(17:53):
the territory and to the environment, which of course we
all care about, but to our democracy and having in
powers like the step laws and being able to overreach laws.
They just it's just people are not comfortable with that.
I'm certainly not comforted with people I'm talking to are
not comfortable, And I just also want to talk quickly
about the appointment of the interim coordinator. I think we

(18:15):
talked earlier today about public perception and how important that is.
I think having someone in that role who worked for
ten years for Impacts, it's very difficult for people to
have confidence that they're not going to have a particular
lens that they look at everything through you And for me,
it doesn't pass the pub test.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Do you accept though, that the reality is that you
you know, we are very rich, like gas is a
very rich resource for us here in the Northern Territory
that at some point.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
In time is going to it's going to be developed.

Speaker 5 (18:46):
I haven't seen any evidence that we're actually have made
any money off gas and that we're going to and
I think that's a really big issue for us here
in the territory. I think, where do you.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Mean on shore or do you mean more generally in
terms of like Impacts and the other projects that we've
already got well.

Speaker 5 (19:01):
I think you know, when you talk to people about
the impact of Impects on the territory, you know people
are still recovering from it. It meant local businesses shut down,
it meant our housing prices you know, went through the roof.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
It did not everybody would agree with that, though, Justine,
I've got friends that listen to the show that work
for impecs now that would definitely say that it has
had you know, like that, they've certainly seen the benefits
of impects operating.

Speaker 4 (19:23):
In the NT. Yeah, what in what way is Katie well.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
In terms of employing locals that need jobs and their
families living here, moving here from other states to actually
live here and work in those jobs and build their
homes here. They're part of you know, your sporting teams,
They're part of our lives.

Speaker 5 (19:40):
Yeah, I mean, I think the other side of that
is that many people who came into work were five
fa people, black people who are not from here, and
that that shifts the dynamic of our economy.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
And I get that, But I'm going to push back
a little bit here because I know, even like I know,
I can look, you know at a particular sport that
my children are ash and there is a number of
families you know that are involved in that sport, in
that one particular team that all moved here to take
up jobs in the gas industry and still here.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yeah, and they're still here years and years later.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (20:14):
And I don't think people are opposed to, you know,
bringing economic development into the territory. That's certainly not what
I hear from people, but they want to do it
in a way that looks after territories first.

Speaker 4 (20:25):
Yeah, and look, I get what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
I guess the problem that we've got right now though
in the Northern Territory is we've not been able to
get a major project off the ground for years and years.
We are literally in a situation where we all want
to see the economy moving. We all want to see
greater investment in things like our youth detention center, in
our jails.

Speaker 4 (20:43):
In different ways.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
We don't want to be in billions and billions of
dollars worth of debt, but we don't want to sort
of create our own source revenue or we're very concerned
about different projects. So I'm just I guess for me,
I'm reaching a point where I'm not sure what kind
of projects people are happy to go ahead with. For
us to actually start to flourish and to see some
jobs created and to see people moving back here.

Speaker 6 (21:05):
What a start on that I was just going to
ask Iran, I mean, obviously we've had using using use
of stagnation economically and Derhan, are you surprised that they
is eight appetite for this kind of bill?

Speaker 3 (21:18):
Look like just going back to the point of the
Territory Coordinator itself and just picking up some of the
points that Maria Claire booth Be made in terms of
it was open to the public, Like, let's be very clear,
this was a hidden agenda. The Territory Coordinator paper at
the time was only given to a select was put
to the Chief Minister in the last October sittings as

(21:40):
a question because if it was the consultation paper, it
would have been up online, the public would have been
able to view it, they would have been able to
put submissions into the Coordinator paper itself. But what we
saw instead was that the Chief Minister try and hide this.
She was going to bring on this bill without any

(22:03):
consultation from the community. And the potential risk that this
bill has it gives a public servants powers to be
able to bend or side set certain laws that you
know safeguards that have safeguards in place. I'm sure that
you know that the projects are safe in the community,

(22:24):
that our environment is protected. You know, I understand our
fans came out and has concerns Amateur Fishing Association around
this piece of legislation that's being proposed, so it wasn't
done in due process by the Chief Minister. She then
came back and question time, which I found quite odd

(22:45):
in an adjournment like so usually in a German you
thank you community, you think your constituents, you get ten
minutes to speak. She came out and had to explain
the position of the paper because ultimately she got caught
out trying to hide this.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
I mean, do you accept though, Deranda, something has to change, right,
Like the Labor Party couldn't get a project off the
ground for the last teen years.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
No one's disputing that projects shouldn't be able to get
off the ground. But what we are disputing is the
way and what the way this bill is being introduced
and the way that what the potential powers that are
given to an unelected member, a person within a public servant.
Ultimately that gives those overoarching powers by side stepping certain

(23:32):
laws which will have an impact on the community overall.

Speaker 5 (23:35):
Justin Yeah, look, I agree, and I think it's profoundly
concerning that we're looking at a bill that gives power,
like overrides our existing kind of democracy and gives power
to individuals. And just in terms of the you know,
just what Durah was saying about how things were brought
to Parliament. It's really great that this is going to
go to a scrutiny committee, which is you know, the

(23:55):
cop has reintroduced, which is wonderful. I'm concerned about the
time for that because it's going to be given to
the Scrutiny Committee from what I understand, in February, and
then be brought to Parliament in March. So if there
are recommendations things to concern things have concerned that that
committee raises, I'm not sure. I don't see how there's
going to be time for it. I just want to

(24:16):
say one other thing in terms of like, we know
that less than one percent of the NT people in
the ANTI are employed in the gas industry. It's actually
tiny and at the moment we don't get any revenue
from gas, so i'd be really interested in terms of
tax revenue, we don't. You know, it's a question you
can take on notice. In terms of tax revenue what
we'll actually be getting in the territory from these projects.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
I think the difference between the onshore and the offshore though,
is the onshore gas revenues come to the territory, that's
what the royalties are paid, as offshore goes to the FEDS.

Speaker 4 (24:48):
And that was a bit.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
So it was a deal that was done obviously under
the former Labor government with Paul Henderson, I believe will
clear Martin as the Chief Minister of the day.

Speaker 4 (24:56):
Look, I'm really sorry.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
We're gonna have to take a really quick break because
there is a lot to cover off this morning and
I've got to pay the bills, so we've got to
go to an ad break. You are listening to Mix
one O four nine's three sixty. It is the week
that was well, you are listening to the week that wasn't.
In the studio with us this morning, we've got Marie
Claire Boothby, We've got Harry Brill from the NT News,
We've got Justine Davis our Independent, and we've also got.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
Duran Young on the line.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
Now, in some very sad news from overnight, we now
know the Northern Territory Police have confirmed that a sixty
one year old woman passed away today in hospital. That
was actually late yesterday, So investigations into the incident are ongoing.
But what I can tell you is it relates to
a domestic violence related assault which occurred in Catherine on

(25:42):
the twelfth of October. Police arrived at a residential address
in Catherine East following a concern from welfare. On arrival,
a sixty one year old female was located with serious
injuries following that assault. She was transported to Saint John,
oh Sorry by Saint John Ambulance to Catherine Hospital in
a critical condition. Now it is believed that that woman

(26:04):
was assaulted sometime between the evening of Friday, the eleventh
of October by her male partner, who also assaulted a
sixty eight year old male who attempted to intervene in
that assault. The sixty eight year old alleged defender has
been arrested and as I understand it, has been remanded
and was due to appear in court on the sixteenth
of October. Now I'm not one hundred percent sure where

(26:26):
that court case is at, but what I can say
it is another appalling situation where.

Speaker 4 (26:34):
A woman's life.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Has been lost at the hands of a domestic violence
incident or perpetrator.

Speaker 4 (26:43):
It is utterly appalling.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
It's something we've spoken about way too many times on
this show, way too many times. In the Northern Territory
that needs based funding. Is also something that we've spoken
about so many times. Before I get to that, though,
Marie Claire justine that there's actually a vigil that's been
organized and that was before we knew about this tragic incident.

Speaker 5 (27:06):
That's right. So tonight there's going to be a vigil
at Mindle Beach on the grassed area near the market
area from six thirty pm in standing in visual for
the eighty one women and fifteen children who have been
killed by domestic, family and sexual violence in Australia. Here
in the NT, we know that since the middle of

(27:28):
the year there's at least seven or eight women who
who have died due to alleged domestic violence incidents. I agree, Katie,
we've talked about it far too many times, but we
have to keep talking about it. We know this actually
is our crime and safety calmed and killed of anywhere
in Australia and we have to keep it at the

(27:49):
center of what we do and do whatever we can
to address it. But I'd encourage people, if they're interested
in coming and standing with other people to pay tribute
to their women whose lives have been lost off and
we don't even know their names, to get down to
Mindle Beach at six point eighty today.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
My very clear this needs based funding. We have again
spoken about it till we're blue in the face. I mean,
it doesn't seem like the federal government's coming on board
with this needs based funding. So if they're not going
to come on board, house a Northern Territory government going
to deal with this crisis.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
And it is a crisis, kdie and it's been a
long time crisis, sadly, and you know, to hear of
another life being lost is absolutely tragic and sadly preventable.
I mean, we shouldn't have to be in this position
that we are in, but we are. And it is
you know, convincing the federal government to give us needs

(28:44):
based funding. It's an upper hill battle, to be frank,
they just don't seem to be able to grasp the
concept that we absolutely are desperate for this so that
we can try and work through this crisis. So with
that in mind, I mean I know that the Minister
Robin Carl has this under one of her portfolios and
she's taking it very seriously. Before the election, we committed

(29:07):
to the one hundred and eighty million dollars to ensure
that we could try and prevent this from happening, and
I know she's doing all the work in that space
to see how that money can go out the door
to ensure that we can make sure that there's no
more victims and also deal with the perpetrators that are involved,
because you know, we need to keep people safe, and sadly,

(29:29):
these people that are in their own homes are the
least safe people that we have and that's just not
acceptable under anyone's standard. So I'm not denying there is
so much work to be done, and I think to
Justine's point, we have to keep talking about this like
it's not acceptable. I know that there is a lot
of talk about it, but that's where the action that
I know that the Minister for Domestic Violence under the

(29:52):
Children of Family's portfolio, myself as Attorney General, the Chief Minister,
all of us really we're all working together to try
and come up with solutions so that we can actually
address this once and for all.

Speaker 6 (30:05):
I'd love to hear I please trace me if I'm wrong,
But I would have thought that needs based funding would
be a bipartisan issue right across the floor here. But
if bushback, what is the issue here that is not
going to give us needs based funding?

Speaker 4 (30:17):
Why would it be rejected?

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Well, I know that when the Chief Minister went down
for her first National Cabinet, I mean she absolutely fought
for the territory in that space. And we're fighting with
all the other states because they too have needs based
funding that they are trying to push it.

Speaker 5 (30:31):
I think, as you said, Harriet, is absolutely bipartisan. In
the last sitting of Parliament, we had a matter of
public importance where domestic family and sexual violence was talked
about and there was a very strong commitment across the
whole chamber that's where we would work together to address this,
including going together to the federal government. I think, and
I've said this before, in terms of the one hundred and

(30:53):
eighty million dollars, there's a really clear plan that has
been developed by the sector and by experts that's been
presented to to government about how to address both prevention
and addressing you know, working with perpetrators. I'm really keen
to hear whether that's the plan that that's going to
be followed by the cop I haven't been able to
get an answer to that yet, so.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Well we can answer in that space, Mary Claire, I mean,
is that something that the Minister's going to be careful.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
It'll come from the minister. I don't want to speak
on her behalf because that is under her portfolio, but
what I can say though is that we are absolutely
committed to ensuring that that plan that has been presented
is exactly what is needed and we really want to
make sure that it's victim centric, but that we do
deal with the perpetrators because at the end of the day,
that is they are perpetrators. They do have to be

(31:40):
dealt with.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean, Doran, I know that even when
Labor was still in power here in the Northern Territory,
there was a push from Kate Orden when she was
the Minister responsible that she was certainly calling for that
needs based funding that had continued. I mean we're now
in a situation though where we actually have the Senator
Melanderri McCarthy in a ministerial.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
Role as well.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
What like what moves are being made I guess, you know,
from the Labor Party as well, to really try to
push them a little bit further to to try and
provide some additional funding.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
Yeah, well that's right, Katie. In regards to Kate Warden
pushing for needs based funding, I think you know we
can all agree that every member of Parliament agrees that
we need needs based funding. That is why as a
as a government before we created that portfolio for a
Family and Domestic Violence Minister so that we could put

(32:38):
the spotlight on what's happening here. But also I just
want to say, obviously my thoughts and my heart go
out to this family, the friends and those frontline workers
that would have to dealt with this as well, and
to all victims of domestic violence too. But yeah, going back,
you know we all agree, we spoke on it at

(32:59):
Parliament last sittings, that there is a need here and
we need that needs based funding as soon as possible.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
Look, we are going to move along.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
Another topic which really raised eyebrows, I think you'd have
to say earlier in the week was when the Australian
newspaper reported on Monday they had revealed that Naja parole officer.
A Nager parole officer had been arrested after she was
allegedly found in bed with Jefferson Woody, who'd allegedly removed
his electronic angle bracelet and gone on the run just

(33:30):
months after.

Speaker 4 (33:31):
Getting out of jail.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
Now she's since been charged for her involvement in perverting
the course of justice and he's going to face the
Alla Springs Local Court on January fifteen. She stood down
from the service on Sunday and then resigned on Monday.

Speaker 4 (33:46):
Now.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Senator Jacinta Nampa Jimpa Price joined us on the show
earlier in the week. She said that the allegations against
this person raised further questions and demand an explanation from
the Federal Attorney General General as to how we've ended
up in this situation. She also said that organizational culture
begins at the top and ultimately it is our most

(34:10):
marginalized Indigenous Australians who've suffered because of poor leadership and
governance that has been allowed to fist at Naja Mari
Claire as the.

Speaker 4 (34:20):
Attorney General of the Northern Territory.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
I mean, does they need to be a full look
into or a further look into the way in which
things are operating at NAJA. I mean, it just seems
as though at the moment there is scandal after scandal.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yeah, And I think it was last year Katie, we
were talking about NAJA and the problems they were having then,
which of course created a whole heap of other problems
for the Northern Territory justice system, with Legal Aid having
to take on all of their clients when they couldn't
service them because of those governance issues. And I know
that since becoming the Attorney General, meeting with the chairman

(34:56):
and sorry, the director of NAJA, A meeting with the
department that who had been working with them previously, and
understanding what is going on with NAJA it, you know,
there's a long way to go in terms of solving
those problems. The most recent case that has been reported,
I can't come here in the headlines again for the
wrong reason, absolutely, especially when we really are trying to

(35:16):
come up with solutions so that we can have people represented,
because we want to make sure that those victims get
the justice.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Well, you're also talking about somebody who is allegedly supposed
to be the person looking after this person who's out
of who's out of jail and you know, to me,
like it is inappropriate is probably not even a strong
enough word.

Speaker 6 (35:39):
I mean public confidence would be getting eroded by now.
I would have thought with NASEA, do NAGE need to
be sent a strong message.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
I know they've been having conversations with the Federal Attorney
General as well because it is federally funded NAJA, So
can you have.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
To oversee though the way in which that funding sort
of flows through because I would assume that there is
actually input from the Northern Terier government.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah. Where we have our input is that you know,
they do service territorians, so we absolutely need NAJA to
be operating with good governance and providing a service that
is incredibly needed in the Northern Territory. So that's where
we do have regular conversations with NAJA. The funding does
go from from the Comonworth government and there's an administration

(36:21):
function in terms of just releasing those funds, but we
don't actually get a say as to whether it goes
you know, what goes when to Najar if you like. So,
but the conversations that we are having with NAJA are
the fact that we do want to make sure that
they are operating in a way that has good governance,
that does provide services for territorians, and that's going.

Speaker 4 (36:41):
Do you think they're in a situation where they can.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Well, I haven't spoken to the director since that the
latest challenges that they're having, but in the previous conversation
they've certainly were putting a lot of things in place
to get back to a place where they could service
territorians and so it was looking very promising. I need
to catch up with them again to find out what
the go is now. I do know there's a lot
of heat on them right now, and at the end
of the day, my goal is to have them servicing

(37:05):
territories with very good governance so this sort of thing
doesn't happen.

Speaker 5 (37:09):
And I think what's really important?

Speaker 4 (37:10):
Oh sorry, sorry, John, you got well.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Sorry, Justine. Yeah, looks I think just taking a couple
of steps back that the Attorney General, Mark Drapers, he
has you know that there is a new CEO in
there and he expects that that governance issue will be
resolved around the CEO as well. But you know, I
just want to acknowledge the work that criminal lawyers do

(37:35):
there in narger. It is it is a difficult job,
but from my understanding that all the operational side of
NARGER is in a lot better space. Now you know
that people have the right, people are being represented in court.
So I think, you know, it's disappointing about this one incident,
but I don't think it should take away the work
that our lawyers in Niger are doing and ensuring that

(37:58):
important work continuities and people do have the right to
be represented here. We shouldn't be taking that away from
people because of one person's incident.

Speaker 5 (38:07):
Well, yeah, I was, I was going to say exactly
what Duran said that the reality is that NAGA is
currently providing all the services they're funded to provide.

Speaker 4 (38:16):
As you would know.

Speaker 5 (38:17):
As anyone who have got anything to do with the justicism.
It's essential, as you just said, Murray Claire. And on
the ground, they are doing the work, the criminal lawyers,
the civil lawyers, they're out there every day doing what
they need to do to be you know, looking after
people's rights and working in our justice system protecting all
of us. And that I think it's really important we

(38:37):
don't lose focus on that while we get distracted in
these conversations. The other thing I want to say is
that there's a lot of and we've talked about on
this show before, a lot of blaming of NAGA for
the legal aid funding crisis. We know that legal aid
has been in a funding crisis for decades actually, or
at least a decade. Like it's not a news story,

(38:58):
so it's not that's not you know, that may have
been a contributor, but that's not the reason why leg
Labe was in trouble. As Mary Clare said, we totally
need both these services. They're essential for our justice system
functioning here.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
Especially for our victims because you know, when you'd have
defendants who are not represented in court, it means that
the court process takes a lot longer. So it's not
about whether they're guilty or not, it's actually about the
time it's taken. And so those victims never get or
it takes a very long time for them to get
that justice. And that's why it's so important.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Look, we are going to have to take a very
quick break. You are listening to Mixwonow four point nine
three sixty.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
It is the week that was.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
We are just about ready to wrap up now. Before
we do wrap up, though, of course, one of the
things that We have discussed absolutely all week, and we
don't have a huge amount of time to continue to
discuss it, but we've sort of touched on it even
last week as well.

Speaker 4 (39:48):
Is the situation that we're in with our jails now.
We know that earlier in the.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Week or last week, it was revealed that around two
hundred thousand dollars worth of damage cause to our new
youth detention center. I mean, appalling behavior to see that
level of damage. A lot of people questioning though, as well,
what kind of design is it for that to be
done in such a short period of time. I know

(40:13):
that that's a lot of listeners scratching their heads, Katie.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
It was a long period of time that the design
and the build happened. I mean it's years and years
and it's only just opened, and so yeah, it is
questionable about that because it seems like the design has
been based more around like a resort hotel instead of
a youth detention center. So there's a lot of work
that needs to happen there to make sure that those
facilities are fit for purpose. And I just want to

(40:40):
clarify I'm not sure if your listeners, I know that
they were worried about the fact that labor were saying
that the staff weren't fully resourced at the time of
the center opening, and that's actually not true. They were
absolutely fully staffed. They did everything they needed to do,
and they do were very professional. I thank them for
that hard work, and unfortunately, you know, these people did

(41:01):
the wrong thing. They are the ones that broke the law,
broke the Justice center, and now they have to face
those consequences.

Speaker 5 (41:08):
But I think the key question is was the facility ready?
Was the move into it rushed? The responsibility of the
government is to make sure that everyone is safe when
they're in their care, staff and children and young people,
and they clearly were not. So we need to know
more about that. We need to know why that's happened.
We need to make sure that's never happened again. And

(41:28):
on looking at what their experience and history was, ninety
five percent of them were exposed to domestic violence, had
domestic violence, what's linked to what we were talking about before.
More than almost eighty percent of them have mental health
issues like these are not These are young people who
need properly designed therapeutic care. It's really objectionable to me

(41:49):
when I hear people talking about essentially a prison as
a resort. It's not a resort. It's a place where people.
I know people have concerns about what we're doing in
terms of, you know, antibility for young people. Talking about
talking about a youth detention center as a resort, I
think is really objectionable language.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
I will say that when we spoke to the Corrections
Commissioner though earlier in the week, he said that every
one of those rooms that they've all got televisions, they
are not monitored twenty four hours a day. If one
of the young people starts to get aggressive or sound off,
they step back. They have to wait until they've calmed
down before they're able to approach them. To me, I

(42:30):
think that there would actually be a lot of people
sort of stepping aside and going hang on a sec.
I wouldn't have thought that a child, when they are
actually in a youth detention center is has got a
television in their own room, and that they are in
a situation where they've got what some.

Speaker 4 (42:44):
Would consider a real luxury.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
My kids don't have a TV in their room, and
nor would I want them to have one in their
room because I feel as though they you know, need
to be out active, they need to be doing other.

Speaker 5 (42:53):
Things exactly people, and that's what we need. We need
to have therapeutic models of care in our detention system.
I feel like I understand why that's something that people
react to, but I feel like that's a distraction from
the key issue, which is what are we doing with
young people who are locked up part of our criminal
justice system. We haven't. We haven't done what we need

(43:14):
to do for a very long time, and I can't
see how that's improving now.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
We've actually run out of time. Unfortunately, we're over time.
If that is possible, I know we would all like
to continue that discussion. Dran, thank you so very much
for joining us from the side of the road today
over the phone from the daily community.

Speaker 4 (43:32):
Thanks mate for your time. It is much appreciated.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
Thank you Katie, and thank you Tony Listener.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
Thanks mate, and of course a big thank you to
Murray clear boothby our Attorney General for joining us in
the studio today.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Thank you Katie, and it just a quick shout out.
Tomorrow is Macappy Day, which means you go to McDonald's
and buy a big Mac. It'll go towards Ronald of
mc donald House, which is of course some raises money
for lots of families, including territory families.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
We will catch up with somebody about that just after
Tin as well. Harry Brill from the NT and US,
thank you so much for your debut here on the
week that was.

Speaker 4 (44:04):
We'll have you back.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Mate, Thank you, thank you, Toty and of course Justine Davis,
thank you so much, the member for Johnson Independent.

Speaker 4 (44:11):
Thank you for your time. Thanks Katie.

Speaker 5 (44:13):
Have a great day everyone, and.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
I did hear you ran four k's this morning as
well for those listening at home.

Speaker 4 (44:17):
An update on Justine Ronning following along at home.

Speaker 5 (44:20):
Then I spilled my coffee all over the desk just
so everyone knows.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
So thank you all so much for joining us this morning.
You are listening to Mix one O four nine.

Speaker 4 (44:28):
It is the Week that was