Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joining me in the studio as she does most Monday mornings.
Did you see Chief Minister of the Northern Territory, Lea Finocchiaro.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Good morning to you, morning Katie, and tell your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Good to have you in the studio now. I do
want to just start off this morning. Last week there
was a lot of discussion about the Rainbow flags and
the Torres Strait Island of flags being removed from the
Royal Darwin and Palmerston Hospital foyers where they've been up
alongside the Australian, NTE and Aboriginal flags. Opinions very much
divided on this issue, some of well some listeners staunchly
(00:32):
wanting the flags up, others saying we cannot have flags
for every group. Chief Minister, why were the flags removed?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah? My understanding is it breached the protocol for government buildings.
And I think what's really important in this whole debate
is just to be respectful number one, but number two,
there is no more unifying flag than the Northern Territory flag.
And you know, we have a lot of groups across
the territory. We have large, wonderful multicultural communities and so
it's very very important that we remember that at our
(01:02):
core we are all Territorian and I think that's what's
you know, what the focus of that policy is about.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
So what exactly is the protocol.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It's the Australian flag, the Northern Territory flag and the
Indigenous flag.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I believe that's I believe that's the case, and you
see that often in the territory, you know, certainly when
we're doing press conferences and all those things. Those are
the three flags that we have. There's also that larger
debate raging nationally about as part of the federal election
about Peter Dutton saying he'd only have the Australian flag.
So it's one of those topics. It captures people's attention.
(01:36):
But I have to stress we are all Territorians. We're
all united under the territory flag and it's something we
should be really proud of.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
What do you make of the discussion that then the
AMA and the Australian Salaried Medical Officers Association have you know,
they've come forward and really called for them to be
reinstated because they want people from the lgbt QIA plus
community to feel safe and welcomed when they enter those
health facilities. I mean, what do you say to anybody
(02:06):
out there that's listening this morning that you know that
is maybe feeling like they're not because those flags have
been removed.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
People are safe. All people are safe. These are around
territory taxpayer funded health systems. You know, this is about
everyone being included, and so we can't have a flag
for every person in every group and every multicultural community
and every sporting club and whatever it might be. And
that's why I'm saying unifying under the territory flag is
(02:33):
really really important and it's not to the exclusion of
anyone else. Actually, it's to the inclusion of all.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
So you stand by this decision absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I think it's the right decision and the right move
and you know, I think it's sensible.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Meanwhile, well, a staffer from the Labor or Position Leader's office,
Selena Rubo, has reportedly been banned from entering Parliament House
for a week after being captured on CCTV entering a
lift near the fourth floor officers of the Opposition leader,
then exiting onto the fifth floor where the well your
(03:09):
officers are obviously on the fifth floor there now. The
staff member was then seen heading towards the fifth floor
men's toilets, where they'd plastered a poster of the nt
to Health Minister Steve Edgington superimposed over a rainbow on
the men's toilet wall. What's your understanding of this situation?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, I heard about it, Katie, and it's obviously really
pathetic poor behavior. I think the Speaker has taken strong
action in kicking this labor staffer out of Parliament House
for a week and hopefully Selena Yubo is you know,
counseling that staff member about appropriate behavior. But you know
what an offensive waste of time.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
How did they apologize to a Minister Orgington?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Not that I know, I don't believe they do.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
You think they should?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, absolutely, It's it's just a disgusting misuse of you know,
the opportunity to be doing something good for the territory.
It's just shenanigans that we don't need to see. And
obviously the speakers come down very hard.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I mean, I guess some people listening might sort of
be going, oh, is it that big a deal? You know,
it's the rate, like, you know, you guys took the
rainbow flag down.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Well you can't essentially graffiti Parliament House. I mean there's
a line, right, we work in Parliament House. We are
there to represent the people. There's a very very high
standard of integrity and respect placed on us and respect
for each other, and so that type of you know,
it's just pathetic.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
All right. I want to talk about some really serious
issues impacting Territorians. Last week, you and I discussed the
overflowing jails. You spoke about the number of people on
remand in corrections facilities. We then had the Corrections Commissioner
on the show the following day he confirmed over fifty
percent of prisoners are on remand with those record prisoner numbers,
(04:50):
Chief Minister, what's the plan when it comes to the
courts and trying to get through these cases?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yet we've got to about fifty three percent of all
people in prison are on remand so that means they
haven't had their day in court, they haven't been sentenced.
And so over Christmas, the Attorney General she made sure
courts were working longer hours and had much shorter stand
down than they normally would. We've appointed several new judges,
which is also going to help. We've spent millions of
(05:18):
dollars on legal aid to.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Make sure in permanently those new.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Judges they're acting judges. I'm not sure if the exact
status of that, but there's additional plus the money for
legal aid to make sure that those services are being
supported so we can have efficiency through the justice system.
But more needs to be done, so the Attorney General
is working on that. We've also we're really trying to
push hard to increase the audio visual opportunities for court
(05:45):
work and working out how we can have less prisoner
movements because that will then free up police and corrections
officers to be able to do their job better. So
just so people understand, if you're in remand at Palmerston Watchhouse,
for example, it would be a police paddy wagon or
corrections officers who then have to pick you up, drive
into town, drop you off to the cells. All day
(06:05):
you'll be in court, then they'll come back pick you up.
You know, it's a lot of time out of what
could be you know, catching bad guys, and that's what
we want our police doing out on the front line,
catching bad guys. So you know, we're trying to really
build some efficiency in the system, but it's so broken, Katie.
We're working on it, but it's absolutely imperfect.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So are there sort of other options here? I mean,
is there more that could be done? Could the hours
be sort of extended, Could we look at additional judges?
Are we looking at a potential remand center?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah? So a remand center isn't part of our corrections
master plan. That doesn't mean it's off the table, it's
just not part of our emergency response right now. We
identified a women's prison as being a much better way
to deliver additional numbers as long as as well as
all the other movements. Of course, ninety six more beds
should come online this week in Alice Springs. We had
(06:53):
the forty eight last week, so it's all on track.
Of course, then we need more correction stuff, so we've
got I think thirty two in the college right now.
They'll march out in April, which will be very helpful
for corrections. We've got three squads of police in the
Police College right now, which is awesome, and the first
lot or march out mid March, so it's all on track.
(07:14):
Of course. We like the community and your listeners wanted
all this yesterday, but you know, at the August election
was a turning point for the territory and for the
first time in a long time, we're moving forward and
we've just got to get all of the systems moving
in the right direction.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Do you reckon?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Like, I know the Remand center is not part of
the plan, but do you reckon? Because even talking to
the Corrections Commissioner, he was saying that the needs and
demands of some of those prisoners, particularly when they're on remand,
are quite different to those that are in there permanently.
So would it potentially make things a bit smoother, maybe
a little bit easier even in terms of the transportation
(07:49):
and that kind of thing, if there was a Romand
specific center, or have we just got too many prisoners
on remand, Like that's the reality.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
That is true. We do have too many on remand,
and that's why the Attorney General is working to clear
that backyard because it's ridiculous. How can you have more
on remand than you have in sentence? It's just it's
a joke, right, It's insane. So let's just like park
that we recognize that we're working on that. But yeah,
you're right, So when you're on remand, you also can't
be made to do programs, So there is an argument
(08:19):
for it. I'm not denying that because of course, once
you're sentenced a sentence prisoner, we can then do the
corrective work. It's called corrections to correct behavior. We want
the programs, behavior change, education, all of those things, whereas
when someone's on remind, you can't do that. So there
is an argument that you can treat that large group
differently because they're not accessing programs. However, we would like
(08:41):
prisons on remand accessing programs because some of them are
on remand for a very long time. So we're looking
at what options we have, bearing in mind that there
is no guilty conviction for these people that they do
have a right to say, you know, I'm not doing
this like I shouldn't be here. So it is something
we're exploring now because if we can deliver programs in remand,
(09:01):
that would be fantastic.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
And Chief Minister, what of the arguments that you know,
Duran Young from the Labour Party was on the week
that was on Friday and said, you know there could
be people who are on remand that actually end up
they shouldn't spend any time in jail.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
I mean, what of that argument?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, that happens a lot. So I think in the
local court the average remind is about one hundred and
twenty days, and in the Supreme Court it's about three
hundred and fifty days. So it's a long time. And
often you'll be reading the newspaper, for example, when you'll
see that the judge's comment is something like time is served.
That means because they've been in prison so long, they're
(09:36):
not having to do any additional prison time. So you
can see the system's broken, Katie, and justice, you know,
Safest Streets is not just about police, it's about courts,
and it's also about corrections. So we have to work
hard in equal measures in all three. And our focus
very much at this point is on corrections because we've
police have better powers. Now we continue to give them
(09:58):
better powers, and police said doing well, we need that
extra support in our prison system, and then get our
courts moving well.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Talking about our watch houses for example, like right now,
as I understand it, we've got two hundred and seventeen
corrections prisoners across the board in our various watch houses
comparatively to twenty four police prisoners.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
That's right, And so it's a very difficult situation. And
this is a legacy we inherited under labor, which is
it's ridiculous really. I mean, if they were filling up
police watchhouses, they knew we needed more prisons. I mean
that in and of itself is an admission that you
need more space, and yet they didn't. So it's you know,
police are managing with corrections as best they can.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
And look in a place like Catherine, I mean eighteen
corrections prisoners in the watchouse, one police prisoner in the watchouse.
We don't have correction staff in Catherine's. So that's actually
then being managed by the Northern Territory polights. And I
know everyone's trying to work as a team here, but
this is a shit show, to put it mildly.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, there's I'm not denying that, Katie, absolutely, and I
think that's why there was a change of government, right.
So you know, the police are doing a great job
with what they can do to support corrections and everyone's
there's a team territory approach on reducing crime across every
agency and we've seen great results right across the board,
even with children and families having some great results, and
(11:22):
so we just have to keep plugging through and that's
why the plans are working. Some of them just take
time to build that capacity. But by the middle of
the year things will be a little bit better because
we'll have more staff, more space. But that it doesn't end.
We have to just keep doing that really important work
to create that space in the system.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Hey, just a quick one on Alice Springs. How long
are the South Australian Police going to remain in Alice
Springs helping out.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I believe they're leaving today. Maybe it's tomorrow, Kady, but
it's definitely this week, and they've done a great job.
So there's ten that we're here every week for four weeks,
So Alice Springs will only be down ten police until
mid March, and then we are sending eleven from our
recruit squad down to Alice Springs, so we're keeping that
high number of police in Alice Territory. Cops in Alice,
(12:09):
it's just the essay ones they'll lose, but we'll replace
them with our own cops come mid March.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Are you concerned that we're losing those You know that
we're losing those South Australian Police and that support for
our Northern Territory place.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
I'm not Ludlow's had an incredible result and so has
a Fugitive Task Force. It there's never going to be
no crime Katie. And honestly, my heart breaks with people
in Alice Springs. They are so you know, just effectively
traumatized by what has happened to them over so long.
But the numbers are looking really good. But I've been
really clear that the data really is irrelevant. Anyone who
(12:42):
wants to look at crime stats can do that. What
I care about most is made we've done our job.
When people feel safe, that's really important. And I can't
say that people in Alice Springs feel safe. That people
are feeling slightly better, people are feeling optimistic about the future,
but we've got to stay the course and show them
that Alice Springs can again be a safe place to live.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
And a bit of good news this morning Air North
announcing flights from Alice Springs to Cairns. We will be
catching up with Air North in a little while. But
do you think this what do you think it's going
to mean for locals and tourism.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
It's fantastic And you know this is off the back
of the Air Asia announcement with the Barley flights again
to Dempesta and international connection. If we can get Alice
Springs to Cans working really well, there's opportunity to expand
it from Perth. And then that means people in the
Red Center not only able to get into Queensland easily,
but also into Perth, which again a major international hub.
(13:36):
So we're starting to see that connectivity we so desperately need,
you know, at Affordableish prices.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
It has to happen.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
It has to happen. It has to happen. So it's
good news. I hope people in Alice Springs are thinking, oh,
you know, maybe we can go to Kansas holiday.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
And I hope that it means that people come to
Central Australia as they get to Alice Springs. And this
is the next step for Alice Springs right like they've
got real reputation to rebuild. They want people back there.
We have to get people back to the Red Center.
It is an absolute duel in the Northern Territories, Crown,
but this issue of crime has been just plaguing us
for far too long.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
It's devastated that community in more ways than one. Katie,
and slowly but surely, you know, Brick by brick, we
rebuild that town from the ashes up. You know, we
believe in Alice Springs. We've poured tens of millions of
dollars into infrastructure projects, save dan zac Oval, you know,
supported the council. We've done a lot already. There's so
much more to do and I want those people in
(14:35):
Alice Springs to feel heard, understood, supported, and that's our mission.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Chiefiness to the ABC this morning reporting that one hundred
and twenty people have been fined and three people arrested
since those new nuisance public drinking laws came into effect,
and a lot of them were apparently those sleeping rough
Are the laws working as you'd hoped?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, that's a great result, and I think, you know,
certainly when I go around, you see the reductions in
that public drinking, which is what we want because that
often leads to violence and break ins later on in
the day. And for those people who think, oh, you
know these you know there's all these poor people who
shouldn't have to pay a fine. Well, if they're spending
their money on grog, you know, they can spend it
(15:19):
paying the territory and we can use that to build
roads in hire or police I mean, it's just ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I mean, that's the argument.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I suppose that some people that are being fined can't
afford then to pay that fine, and that they might
end up in jail because of unpaid fines. What do
you say to those that are worried about.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
If they can't afford to pay a fine, how can
they afford to be fine for public nuisance drinking in
the first place. I mean, it's just if you're not
a nuisance public drinker, you won't get a fine and
off your go. So what's the message, Get off the
get off the grug, and you know, be an upstanding citizen.
I don't know how many times I can say this.
If you're doing the right thing, there's absolutely no problem.
(15:58):
And it's a bit like I've been asked a lot,
Katie by another outlet about air conditioning prisons, and I say,
if you want to live in air conditioning, stay at home,
get a job, have a good life, and you won't
end up in prison. You want to go to prison,
it's going to be hot.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Well, we don't have an air conditioner in here today.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
So maybe you haven't been a good girl over the weekend, Katie.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Maybe I'm in trouble. Maybe this is my boss putting
me on notice. Hey, I want to move along the
budget road show. Bill, Yeah, he's hit the road and
he's traveling around talking about the territory's finances. Understand that
road show is going to be in Darwin tomorrow tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
So what we really want to do we acknowledge the
fact that for ten years, you know, labor really haven't
talked to the territories about the economy. And what's really
important to us is to create the jobs and opportunities
of the future. We have to bring people on that
journey with us. Now we have a debilitating level of debt.
So what Bill Yan the Treasure is trying to do
(16:52):
over the next week is give everyday Territorians the opportunity
to understand that better. It's really important for people to
know where we are in order to know and be
on the journey with us of where we've got to go.
And so next week then I'll give a presentation about
the year ahead and our priorities for twenty twenty five.
But that presentation that I'll do will make much more
(17:13):
sense if people have absorbed the one that Bill Yam
will do. So it's really about our twelve billion dollar debt.
Just how how many budget blowouts they've been as we've
uncovered things obviously going through the next budget process, projects
that are blown out by tens of tens of millions,
if not hundreds of millions. So we just want people
(17:33):
to really understand that. Of course, where.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Are some of those projects that have sort of maybe
surprised you, well, some of the ongoing operating costs that
maybe have surprised you as you've del delved into things.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Well, I think on operating costs, well, you know there's
one hundred million in Tiger Brennan Overpass, just for one
off the top of my head, Katie, one hundred million,
I mean, it's extraordinary. That's you know, two schools you
could build. So another on operating costs, what labor weren't
doing is putting operating costs into their pro projects going forward.
So they might be have allocated money for a project,
(18:05):
that project's then blown out, which means we have to
borrow more money and then excuse me, and then the
next year's budget there's no money to run the bloody thing.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
So like, what kind of what example is that because
I built that.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
What's an example is the Art Gallery at State Square,
for example, that's had a budget blow out, that's not
scheduled to come online for two more years, but there's
no forecasted operational funding for that, which means we have
to work out, well, how many millions.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
A year is that they think they're going to run it?
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Well, exactly, they don't care about any of these.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
So how much is that blown out? By?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Oh, I can't remember off the top of my head.
I believe Bill's talking about it tomorrow, but it's one
in a number. I mean, the art Gallery and Alice
Springs is the same.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
But the problem is as well though, well, yeah, that's
exactly right. We've got the Art Gallery and Alice Springs
as well, that's been built. But then we've also got
our existing museum and art gallery and so you know,
that's heartbreaking where people are saying that that needs money
invested into it too. So how how are we actually
going to then manage these three facilities and have them
(19:06):
operating and pay for them to be operational?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
That is the million dollar question, Katie.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
It'll be more than it is.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
It will be much more than it'd be tens of
millions and this is the situation we're facing. So we're
being lumbered with infrastructure we can't afford, we've paid too
much for, there's no money allocated to run it. We've
got competing pressures. Obviously, correctional infrastructure is more important to
us at the moment than art galleries, but we've got
to balance that lifestyle piece. So you know, doing a
(19:34):
budget is a juggle at the best of times, and
we're at the worst of times, so it's very hard.
And that's why the road shows so important, because growing
our economy is the only way out of this mess.
And I want people to understand that. When we're passing
laws like Territory Coordinator, it's because the territory is in
a desperate position. We must be highly competitive, attract private
(19:55):
sector investment and get our economy flourishing, or we're going
to be in a world of for much longer than
anyone deserves us to be in. And we don't want
that for the territory. And that's why we're going to
make the big decisions needed to unlock the potential that
the territory has.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Chief Minister, we are going to let you go, but
just quickly this morning. We know that after ten o'clock
the Austin Asher's state funeral is going to get under way.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
An incredible territorian.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, it's very sad today there will be a state
funeral for the Honorable Austin Ash KCAC. You know, a
former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, administrator, well known
and loved, treasured territory identity. You know, we're certainly going
to miss him at the training awards every single year
at bombing of Darwin, and our thoughts and prayers are
(20:40):
with his family. But ninety nine years of age, incredible
contribution and we'll give him the send of he deserves. Today.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Lea Fanko, Chief Minister of the Northern Territory, good to
speak with you.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Thank you for you to take everyone
Joining me in the studio as she does most Monday mornings.
Did you see Chief Minister of the Northern Territory, Lea Finocchiaro.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Good morning to you, morning Katie, and tell your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Good to have you in the studio now. I do
want to just start off this morning. Last week there
was a lot of discussion about the Rainbow flags and
the Torres Strait Island of flags being removed from the
Royal Darwin and Palmerston Hospital foyers where they've been up
alongside the Australian, NTE and Aboriginal flags. Opinions very much
divided on this issue, some of well some listeners staunchly
(00:32):
wanting the flags up, others saying we cannot have flags
for every group. Chief Minister, why were the flags removed?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah? My understanding is it breached the protocol for government buildings.
And I think what's really important in this whole debate
is just to be respectful number one, but number two,
there is no more unifying flag than the Northern Territory flag.
And you know, we have a lot of groups across
the territory. We have large, wonderful multicultural communities and so
it's very very important that we remember that at our
(01:02):
core we are all Territorian and I think that's what's
you know, what the focus of that policy is about.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
So what exactly is the protocol.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It's the Australian flag, the Northern Territory flag and the
Indigenous flag.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I believe that's I believe that's the case, and you
see that often in the territory, you know, certainly when
we're doing press conferences and all those things. Those are
the three flags that we have. There's also that larger
debate raging nationally about as part of the federal election
about Peter Dutton saying he'd only have the Australian flag.
So it's one of those topics. It captures people's attention.
(01:36):
But I have to stress we are all Territorians. We're
all united under the territory flag and it's something we
should be really proud of.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
What do you make of the discussion that then the
AMA and the Australian Salaried Medical Officers Association have you know,
they've come forward and really called for them to be
reinstated because they want people from the lgbt QIA plus
community to feel safe and welcomed when they enter those
health facilities. I mean, what do you say to anybody
(02:06):
out there that's listening this morning that you know that
is maybe feeling like they're not because those flags have
been removed.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
People are safe. All people are safe. These are around
territory taxpayer funded health systems. You know, this is about
everyone being included, and so we can't have a flag
for every person in every group and every multicultural community
and every sporting club and whatever it might be. And
that's why I'm saying unifying under the territory flag is
(02:33):
really really important and it's not to the exclusion of
anyone else. Actually, it's to the inclusion of all.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
So you stand by this decision absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I think it's the right decision and the right move
and you know, I think it's sensible.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Meanwhile, well, a staffer from the Labor or Position Leader's office,
Selena Rubo, has reportedly been banned from entering Parliament House
for a week after being captured on CCTV entering a
lift near the fourth floor officers of the Opposition leader,
then exiting onto the fifth floor where the well your
(03:09):
officers are obviously on the fifth floor there now. The
staff member was then seen heading towards the fifth floor
men's toilets, where they'd plastered a poster of the nt
to Health Minister Steve Edgington superimposed over a rainbow on
the men's toilet wall. What's your understanding of this situation?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, I heard about it, Katie, and it's obviously really
pathetic poor behavior. I think the Speaker has taken strong
action in kicking this labor staffer out of Parliament House
for a week and hopefully Selena Yubo is you know,
counseling that staff member about appropriate behavior. But you know
what an offensive waste of time.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
How did they apologize to a Minister Orgington?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Not that I know, I don't believe they do.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
You think they should?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, absolutely, It's it's just a disgusting misuse of you know,
the opportunity to be doing something good for the territory.
It's just shenanigans that we don't need to see. And
obviously the speakers come down very hard.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I mean, I guess some people listening might sort of
be going, oh, is it that big a deal? You know,
it's the rate, like, you know, you guys took the
rainbow flag down.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Well you can't essentially graffiti Parliament House. I mean there's
a line, right, we work in Parliament House. We are
there to represent the people. There's a very very high
standard of integrity and respect placed on us and respect
for each other, and so that type of you know,
it's just pathetic.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
All right. I want to talk about some really serious
issues impacting Territorians. Last week, you and I discussed the
overflowing jails. You spoke about the number of people on
remand in corrections facilities. We then had the Corrections Commissioner
on the show the following day he confirmed over fifty
percent of prisoners are on remand with those record prisoner numbers,
(04:50):
Chief Minister, what's the plan when it comes to the
courts and trying to get through these cases?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yet we've got to about fifty three percent of all
people in prison are on remand so that means they
haven't had their day in court, they haven't been sentenced.
And so over Christmas, the Attorney General she made sure
courts were working longer hours and had much shorter stand
down than they normally would. We've appointed several new judges,
which is also going to help. We've spent millions of
(05:18):
dollars on legal aid to.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Make sure in permanently those new.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Judges they're acting judges. I'm not sure if the exact
status of that, but there's additional plus the money for
legal aid to make sure that those services are being
supported so we can have efficiency through the justice system.
But more needs to be done, so the Attorney General
is working on that. We've also we're really trying to
push hard to increase the audio visual opportunities for court
(05:45):
work and working out how we can have less prisoner
movements because that will then free up police and corrections
officers to be able to do their job better. So
just so people understand, if you're in remand at Palmerston Watchhouse,
for example, it would be a police paddy wagon or
corrections officers who then have to pick you up, drive
into town, drop you off to the cells. All day
(06:05):
you'll be in court, then they'll come back pick you up.
You know, it's a lot of time out of what
could be you know, catching bad guys, and that's what
we want our police doing out on the front line,
catching bad guys. So you know, we're trying to really
build some efficiency in the system, but it's so broken, Katie.
We're working on it, but it's absolutely imperfect.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So are there sort of other options here? I mean,
is there more that could be done? Could the hours
be sort of extended, Could we look at additional judges?
Are we looking at a potential remand center?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah? So a remand center isn't part of our corrections
master plan. That doesn't mean it's off the table, it's
just not part of our emergency response right now. We
identified a women's prison as being a much better way
to deliver additional numbers as long as as well as
all the other movements. Of course, ninety six more beds
should come online this week in Alice Springs. We had
(06:53):
the forty eight last week, so it's all on track.
Of course, then we need more correction stuff, so we've
got I think thirty two in the college right now.
They'll march out in April, which will be very helpful
for corrections. We've got three squads of police in the
Police College right now, which is awesome, and the first
lot or march out mid March, so it's all on track.
(07:14):
Of course. We like the community and your listeners wanted
all this yesterday, but you know, at the August election
was a turning point for the territory and for the
first time in a long time, we're moving forward and
we've just got to get all of the systems moving
in the right direction.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Do you reckon?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Like, I know the Remand center is not part of
the plan, but do you reckon? Because even talking to
the Corrections Commissioner, he was saying that the needs and
demands of some of those prisoners, particularly when they're on remand,
are quite different to those that are in there permanently.
So would it potentially make things a bit smoother, maybe
a little bit easier even in terms of the transportation
(07:49):
and that kind of thing, if there was a Romand
specific center, or have we just got too many prisoners
on remand, Like that's the reality.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
That is true. We do have too many on remand,
and that's why the Attorney General is working to clear
that backyard because it's ridiculous. How can you have more
on remand than you have in sentence? It's just it's
a joke, right, It's insane. So let's just like park
that we recognize that we're working on that. But yeah,
you're right, So when you're on remand, you also can't
be made to do programs, So there is an argument
(08:19):
for it. I'm not denying that because of course, once
you're sentenced a sentence prisoner, we can then do the
corrective work. It's called corrections to correct behavior. We want
the programs, behavior change, education, all of those things, whereas
when someone's on remind, you can't do that. So there
is an argument that you can treat that large group
differently because they're not accessing programs. However, we would like
(08:41):
prisons on remand accessing programs because some of them are
on remand for a very long time. So we're looking
at what options we have, bearing in mind that there
is no guilty conviction for these people that they do
have a right to say, you know, I'm not doing
this like I shouldn't be here. So it is something
we're exploring now because if we can deliver programs in remand,
(09:01):
that would be fantastic.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
And Chief Minister, what of the arguments that you know,
Duran Young from the Labour Party was on the week
that was on Friday and said, you know there could
be people who are on remand that actually end up
they shouldn't spend any time in jail.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
I mean, what of that argument?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, that happens a lot. So I think in the
local court the average remind is about one hundred and
twenty days, and in the Supreme Court it's about three
hundred and fifty days. So it's a long time. And
often you'll be reading the newspaper, for example, when you'll
see that the judge's comment is something like time is served.
That means because they've been in prison so long, they're
(09:36):
not having to do any additional prison time. So you
can see the system's broken, Katie, and justice, you know,
Safest Streets is not just about police, it's about courts,
and it's also about corrections. So we have to work
hard in equal measures in all three. And our focus
very much at this point is on corrections because we've
police have better powers. Now we continue to give them
(09:58):
better powers, and police said doing well, we need that
extra support in our prison system, and then get our
courts moving well.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Talking about our watch houses for example, like right now,
as I understand it, we've got two hundred and seventeen
corrections prisoners across the board in our various watch houses
comparatively to twenty four police prisoners.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
That's right, And so it's a very difficult situation. And
this is a legacy we inherited under labor, which is
it's ridiculous really. I mean, if they were filling up
police watchhouses, they knew we needed more prisons. I mean
that in and of itself is an admission that you
need more space, and yet they didn't. So it's you know,
police are managing with corrections as best they can.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
And look in a place like Catherine, I mean eighteen
corrections prisoners in the watchouse, one police prisoner in the watchouse.
We don't have correction staff in Catherine's. So that's actually
then being managed by the Northern Territory polights. And I
know everyone's trying to work as a team here, but
this is a shit show, to put it mildly.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, there's I'm not denying that, Katie, absolutely, and I
think that's why there was a change of government, right.
So you know, the police are doing a great job
with what they can do to support corrections and everyone's
there's a team territory approach on reducing crime across every
agency and we've seen great results right across the board,
even with children and families having some great results, and
(11:22):
so we just have to keep plugging through and that's
why the plans are working. Some of them just take
time to build that capacity. But by the middle of
the year things will be a little bit better because
we'll have more staff, more space. But that it doesn't end.
We have to just keep doing that really important work
to create that space in the system.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Hey, just a quick one on Alice Springs. How long
are the South Australian Police going to remain in Alice
Springs helping out.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I believe they're leaving today. Maybe it's tomorrow, Kady, but
it's definitely this week, and they've done a great job.
So there's ten that we're here every week for four weeks,
So Alice Springs will only be down ten police until
mid March, and then we are sending eleven from our
recruit squad down to Alice Springs, so we're keeping that
high number of police in Alice Territory. Cops in Alice,
(12:09):
it's just the essay ones they'll lose, but we'll replace
them with our own cops come mid March.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Are you concerned that we're losing those You know that
we're losing those South Australian Police and that support for
our Northern Territory place.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
I'm not Ludlow's had an incredible result and so has
a Fugitive Task Force. It there's never going to be
no crime Katie. And honestly, my heart breaks with people
in Alice Springs. They are so you know, just effectively
traumatized by what has happened to them over so long.
But the numbers are looking really good. But I've been
really clear that the data really is irrelevant. Anyone who
(12:42):
wants to look at crime stats can do that. What
I care about most is made we've done our job.
When people feel safe, that's really important. And I can't
say that people in Alice Springs feel safe. That people
are feeling slightly better, people are feeling optimistic about the future,
but we've got to stay the course and show them
that Alice Springs can again be a safe place to live.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
And a bit of good news this morning Air North
announcing flights from Alice Springs to Cairns. We will be
catching up with Air North in a little while. But
do you think this what do you think it's going
to mean for locals and tourism.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
It's fantastic And you know this is off the back
of the Air Asia announcement with the Barley flights again
to Dempesta and international connection. If we can get Alice
Springs to Cans working really well, there's opportunity to expand
it from Perth. And then that means people in the
Red Center not only able to get into Queensland easily,
but also into Perth, which again a major international hub.
(13:36):
So we're starting to see that connectivity we so desperately need,
you know, at Affordableish prices.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
It has to happen.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
It has to happen. It has to happen. So it's
good news. I hope people in Alice Springs are thinking, oh,
you know, maybe we can go to Kansas holiday.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
And I hope that it means that people come to
Central Australia as they get to Alice Springs. And this
is the next step for Alice Springs right like they've
got real reputation to rebuild. They want people back there.
We have to get people back to the Red Center.
It is an absolute duel in the Northern Territories, Crown,
but this issue of crime has been just plaguing us
for far too long.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
It's devastated that community in more ways than one. Katie,
and slowly but surely, you know, Brick by brick, we
rebuild that town from the ashes up. You know, we
believe in Alice Springs. We've poured tens of millions of
dollars into infrastructure projects, save dan zac Oval, you know,
supported the council. We've done a lot already. There's so
much more to do and I want those people in
(14:35):
Alice Springs to feel heard, understood, supported, and that's our mission.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Chiefiness to the ABC this morning reporting that one hundred
and twenty people have been fined and three people arrested
since those new nuisance public drinking laws came into effect,
and a lot of them were apparently those sleeping rough
Are the laws working as you'd hoped?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, that's a great result, and I think, you know,
certainly when I go around, you see the reductions in
that public drinking, which is what we want because that
often leads to violence and break ins later on in
the day. And for those people who think, oh, you
know these you know there's all these poor people who
shouldn't have to pay a fine. Well, if they're spending
their money on grog, you know, they can spend it
(15:19):
paying the territory and we can use that to build
roads in hire or police I mean, it's just ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I mean, that's the argument.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I suppose that some people that are being fined can't
afford then to pay that fine, and that they might
end up in jail because of unpaid fines. What do
you say to those that are worried about.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
If they can't afford to pay a fine, how can
they afford to be fine for public nuisance drinking in
the first place. I mean, it's just if you're not
a nuisance public drinker, you won't get a fine and
off your go. So what's the message, Get off the
get off the grug, and you know, be an upstanding citizen.
I don't know how many times I can say this.
If you're doing the right thing, there's absolutely no problem.
(15:58):
And it's a bit like I've been asked a lot,
Katie by another outlet about air conditioning prisons, and I say,
if you want to live in air conditioning, stay at home,
get a job, have a good life, and you won't
end up in prison. You want to go to prison,
it's going to be hot.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Well, we don't have an air conditioner in here today.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
So maybe you haven't been a good girl over the weekend, Katie.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Maybe I'm in trouble. Maybe this is my boss putting
me on notice. Hey, I want to move along the
budget road show. Bill, Yeah, he's hit the road and
he's traveling around talking about the territory's finances. Understand that
road show is going to be in Darwin tomorrow tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
So what we really want to do we acknowledge the
fact that for ten years, you know, labor really haven't
talked to the territories about the economy. And what's really
important to us is to create the jobs and opportunities
of the future. We have to bring people on that
journey with us. Now we have a debilitating level of debt.
So what Bill Yan the Treasure is trying to do
(16:52):
over the next week is give everyday Territorians the opportunity
to understand that better. It's really important for people to
know where we are in order to know and be
on the journey with us of where we've got to go.
And so next week then I'll give a presentation about
the year ahead and our priorities for twenty twenty five.
But that presentation that I'll do will make much more
(17:13):
sense if people have absorbed the one that Bill Yam
will do. So it's really about our twelve billion dollar debt.
Just how how many budget blowouts they've been as we've
uncovered things obviously going through the next budget process, projects
that are blown out by tens of tens of millions,
if not hundreds of millions. So we just want people
(17:33):
to really understand that. Of course, where.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Are some of those projects that have sort of maybe
surprised you, well, some of the ongoing operating costs that
maybe have surprised you as you've del delved into things.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Well, I think on operating costs, well, you know there's
one hundred million in Tiger Brennan Overpass, just for one
off the top of my head, Katie, one hundred million,
I mean, it's extraordinary. That's you know, two schools you
could build. So another on operating costs, what labor weren't
doing is putting operating costs into their pro projects going forward.
So they might be have allocated money for a project,
(18:05):
that project's then blown out, which means we have to
borrow more money and then excuse me, and then the
next year's budget there's no money to run the bloody thing.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
So like, what kind of what example is that because
I built that.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
What's an example is the Art Gallery at State Square,
for example, that's had a budget blow out, that's not
scheduled to come online for two more years, but there's
no forecasted operational funding for that, which means we have
to work out, well, how many millions.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
A year is that they think they're going to run it?
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Well, exactly, they don't care about any of these.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
So how much is that blown out? By?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Oh, I can't remember off the top of my head.
I believe Bill's talking about it tomorrow, but it's one
in a number. I mean, the art Gallery and Alice
Springs is the same.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
But the problem is as well though, well, yeah, that's
exactly right. We've got the Art Gallery and Alice Springs
as well, that's been built. But then we've also got
our existing museum and art gallery and so you know,
that's heartbreaking where people are saying that that needs money
invested into it too. So how how are we actually
going to then manage these three facilities and have them
(19:06):
operating and pay for them to be operational?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
That is the million dollar question, Katie.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
It'll be more than it is.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
It will be much more than it'd be tens of
millions and this is the situation we're facing. So we're
being lumbered with infrastructure we can't afford, we've paid too
much for, there's no money allocated to run it. We've
got competing pressures. Obviously, correctional infrastructure is more important to
us at the moment than art galleries, but we've got
to balance that lifestyle piece. So you know, doing a
(19:34):
budget is a juggle at the best of times, and
we're at the worst of times, so it's very hard.
And that's why the road shows so important, because growing
our economy is the only way out of this mess.
And I want people to understand that. When we're passing
laws like Territory Coordinator, it's because the territory is in
a desperate position. We must be highly competitive, attract private
(19:55):
sector investment and get our economy flourishing, or we're going
to be in a world of for much longer than
anyone deserves us to be in. And we don't want
that for the territory. And that's why we're going to
make the big decisions needed to unlock the potential that
the territory has.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Chief Minister, we are going to let you go, but
just quickly this morning. We know that after ten o'clock
the Austin Asher's state funeral is going to get under way.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
An incredible territorian.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, it's very sad today there will be a state
funeral for the Honorable Austin Ash KCAC. You know, a
former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, administrator, well known
and loved, treasured territory identity. You know, we're certainly going
to miss him at the training awards every single year
at bombing of Darwin, and our thoughts and prayers are
(20:40):
with his family. But ninety nine years of age, incredible
contribution and we'll give him the send of he deserves. Today.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Lea Fanko, Chief Minister of the Northern Territory, good to
speak with you.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Thank you for you to take everyone
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