Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The news that has come through over the last sort
of twelve hours is the COLP government have shocked correctional
staff across the Northern Territory late yesterday announcing that private
contractors are going to be used across the Northern Territory.
Now the government set to introduce will targeted amendments to
the Correctional Services Act for twenty fourteen, so that Act
(00:23):
is going to be updated subject to passage through the
Legislative Assembly. Now the Commissioner of Corrections will have the
power to appoint special officers to supplement the core corrections workforce.
These changes are going to include the secondment of interstate
officers and the appointment of specialist officers. I've already been
(00:44):
contacted by correctional officers voicing serious concerns about the changes now.
They say that they are worried that this is the
first step in privatizing corrections and they worry that the
appointment of special officers is going to mean that private
security are transporting some of the territories burst criminals. Now
joining me on the show is the Corrections Commissioner, Matthew Varley.
(01:07):
Good morning to your commissioner.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Good morning Katie.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Thanks so much for taking the time to come into
the studio to talk to us this morning. Now, Commissioner,
this is a massive move by the government. Why is
this happening.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
This is a significant change, Katie. You're absolutely right, but
it's necessary and it's necessary that it's done quick to
help us manage some of the urgent capacity constraints and
workforce pressures we've been seeing across our prisons. You spoke
with me a think about a week ago, and since then,
you know, we continue to see high numbers of prisons
are prisoners across the Northern Territory. We've got more than
(01:40):
twenty seven hundred people in custody. Watch houses are continuing
to be full and I don't see that trajectory changing
anytime soon. And not only in prisons, Katie, but in
our community supervision area. Our probation and prole officers are managing,
you know, some sixteen hundred people on community supervision orders.
(02:00):
We're now seeing more than six hundred people on electronic
monitoring devices around the territory. This trajectory of growth is
outstripping everything we've been able to throw at it. So
these are significant legislation changes that are complex and detailed.
I'm happy to talk through those, but they give me
the ability to put more people to a task as
(02:20):
we need to deploy.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
These are massive numbers. I mean, twenty seven hundred people
in those correctional facilities across the NT, sixteen hundred on
community orders. Did you say yes, that's correct, and then
you've got six hundred being monitored by electronic monitoring devices.
I mean, as I said, they are enormous numbers. How
BIG's the workforce covering off on.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
All those So our correctional officer workforce in the prisons
we have about seven hundred uniformed officers at the moment,
slightly less than I think two hundred odd probation and
prole offices in about eleven or twelve locations around the territory.
And of course we have a whole range of other
specialists support staff, including our psychologists, our educators, our aboriginal
(03:05):
support workers. So the total workforce including Youth Justice for
Corrections as it stands is close to fourteen hundred people.
But when you look at all of the specialties and
the disciplines and the professions that are required to do
the job, you know, we've always said short, we're short
staff we're under stretched, and I've never made an apology
about telling the truth on that.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So what exactly are these changes going to mean from
your perspective?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
So first thing to point out to your listeners, Katie,
and to everyone listening, including my staff, is we are
not just changing the Lord to give carte blanche authority
for me to employ anyone I like. There are some
specific provisions there to provide the appointment powers for what
we're calling special correctional officers and special probation and prole officers. Now,
(03:51):
that doesn't change the requirements under the Act for the
appointment of a correctional officer normal as a public sector
employee and a probation and parole officer. What this amendment
does allows me to do two or three things. One,
if I needed to borrow a surge workforce or borrow
special officers from another jurisdiction, like you know, another state
or territory, and also contract providers to help us with
(04:14):
our jobs. And we can provide I guess, appointments to
those officers to do specific tasks. We can provide them
appointments to limit the scope of their powers to a
specific functional task. We don't just give them carte blanche
powers across the whole Northern Territory. And it also gives
me the power to only appoint that person if I'm
(04:34):
satisfied that the person has the qualifications, the skills or
the experience to properly perform the functions that I assigned them.
That's in the legislation. Now. For example, your listeners would
remember Katie. Only a couple of weeks ago, the Police
Commissioner was able to lean on and call on the
assistance of South Australia Police in Alice Springs. That's a
great thing. Police have long had the ability to appoint
(04:58):
special constables from another jurisdiction. We don't have that same
power in the Correctional Services Act.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Look, I don't get the impression from the correctional stuff
that I've spoken to that they're so concerned about the
secondment of interstate officers. They seem quite worried about contract
providers coming in and obviously you know, doing things like
transporting prisoners. Also you know, being there at the hospital
(05:27):
to keep an eye on a prisoner who may need
to go to the hospital, and also those court appearances. Now,
the reasons that I've been given by some of those
correctional stuff is that they are worried about safety. They're
worried about the safety of the broader community. I mean,
what kind of contract providers are we talking about here?
Is it the likes of Circa, Is it like Wilson's Security?
(05:48):
What's it going to be.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So let's put a few clear things on the table here, Katie,
to dispel some of the concerns that your listeners, the community,
and my officers might have. And I'm going to try
and be really clear as we step through this. Firstly,
nothing changes in the Correctional Services Act. That ultimately means
I have to be satisfied that I'm in control of
the safety and security of offenders in the Northern Territory.
(06:10):
That's number one. Number two is we know our extraordinary
hard working offices and workforce out there are doing hours
of overtime, huge amounts of excess duties. We're moving prisoners
all over the territory all the time. On any given day,
I have probably half a dozen prisoners in hospital and
(06:30):
on each of those prisoners, we have to have officers.
Those offices are taken out of the roster of the jails.
On any other given day, Monday to Friday. I have
eight officers sitting in the Darwin Local Court operating those cells.
We have people on medical escorts, renal escorts, we escort
prisoners to funerals. Some of those duties can be provided
(06:51):
by other service providers. And again this is not a
new practice, Katie. Now large jurisdictions and I'll give you
an example. Victoria, South Australia, WA have been doing this
for years. This is not new and there are major
providers out there in this country. And I'm not talking
about you know, Bob Security company down the road. There
(07:12):
are major companies who provide qualified, trained and professional workforces
to do these tasks. And that's what we're talking about,
because that's a worry.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I suppose that you know that I'm hearing from from
normal punters as well, sort of going, well, hang on
a second, is it going to be security like we
have at bottle shops and like we've got at shopping
centers who are not intervening when people might expect them to.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, no, of course, And I get why people are
concerned about that. But that's why we're here to try
and explain some of this information and legislation changes and
mind you you know, there's been radio commentary this morning
by the union that says we're going to employ, you know,
a local security company and throw them in the jail untrained.
Completely not the case. Let's just be one hundred percent
(07:53):
clear on that. We have the ability to approach some
of these companies and ask for a proposal, go to market,
say this is the services that we want you to provide.
How could you do it? Shall wish your qualifications and
where's the workforce coming from?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So, Commissioner, you are going to obviously you've got to
be satisfied with who is going to ultimately do this
job and who is ultimately going to be sort of
you know, stepping into the corrections realm. Some might be
listening this morning thinking that's going to be difficult for you.
You know, you're already dealing with a small city or
a small community. You know, when you look at the
(08:29):
volume of prisoners that you've got and also when you
look at the volume of workforce that you're currently overseeing.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah, which is why we've had to take these changes, Katie.
Let's be honest about that. You know, we have been
recruiting hard for two years now, but the growth of
that recruitment in our workforce is being outpaced by the
growth of people in prison. It's as simple as that. Now,
what that means is and I've been really clear about
this too in my messaging to our people. No one's
(08:56):
losing their job out of this.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Are they losing maybe extra over time hours that they
might be reliant on.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Well, I can't answer that question. But the point is
we know that our officers have spent you know, can
I say dozens, maybe even a couple of hundred shifts
a week on overtime managing all of these movements, And
that's exhausting, that's tiring, it takes them away from their families.
It also means that those offices are not available for
overtime shifts in the prisons, and that's what causes lockdowns
(09:24):
and you know, disruptions to programs. We know, and I
think I said this to you last time. I've had
to close down industry services, I've had to close down
education programs. My psychologists can't get into the prisons to
do the work they need to do to treat these offenders.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
So you reckon that this is actually going to help
in terms of being able to deliver all of those
services to prisoners.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Again one hundred percent Codie. And that's the whole point.
If I can get twenty thirty forty officers a day
back in my jails, that's twenty or thirty forty officers
that can be put to the professional task that they're
trained to do. And that's what this is about.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Are you anticipating that that is, you know, through a
private contractor that that is the number of staff that
they're realistically going to need, Like that's kind of the volume.
It's about thirty forty.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I think it's more than that, to be honest with you,
And we're going to grow it over time. So what
we will do, and when I grow it over time,
what I'm saying is to meet the urgent need. I
will be going to the market as soon as this
legislation passes. And bear in mind, I can't do that,
of course, until the law passes parliament, right, you know,
the government needs to do its thing, and then I'll
(10:30):
have approval to go to the market and say, you know,
to these major providers, here's my problem. This is the
shortage that we're seeing. These are the tasks that you
could potentially help me with. Give me a proposal. Then
we'll work through that proposal and it might be that
we start small and we scale up over the next
few months. But we'll be doing it all with the
right procurement, we'll be doing it all with the right legals,
(10:51):
and we'll be doing it all with the right assessment
to make sure the community is safe and that our
officers concerns will listen to.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
If you have just joined us, we are in this
studio with the Northern Territory Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley now Commissioner.
Last night we obviously had a prisoner escape the Darwin
Watchhouse under the care of Police and Corrections. Thirty three
year old Chris Cooper fled sometime between three point fifty
in the afternoon and five pm. He was last seen
(11:20):
in the Karama area about six point thirty last night,
traveling in a blue great Wall ute with the registration
CF six ' nine NG. First off, is there any
update on that prisoner.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
What my understanding is, and this is subject to police
information and their investigations. They're leading obviously the charge on
that location and that investigation. I'm going to let them
do their jobs because that's what they're there for. I
also need to be really clear that the officer, sorry,
the prisoner was in our custody, not police custody. We
operate the Darwin Watchhouse, so just to be fair to
(11:53):
the police, this is our facility and we as soon
as we identified that prisoner being missing around seventeen hundred yesterday,
police were notified and we had seen your officers from
police and seenior officers from our site on site. Obviously,
the investigation into that escape and the apprehension of that
offender takes its course, but right now we've got our
(12:15):
investigations and safety and security team at the facility this
morning commencing a review into that incident to find out
what's happened.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, there's going to be people listening that are going,
how on earth do you get out of a secure facility.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Well, the answer to that at the moment appears to
be several fire escape doors, Katie, and we'll work through
that inquiry. I don't want to jump to a conclusion
on what, when and how, but the obvious exit point
is the fire escape and that's what the CCTV and
other things tell us. I guess it goes to show
and in fairness, it goes to show the pressures that
(12:48):
our officers are under operating these watch houses. I've always
said a watchhouse is not a prison. We're not fit
for purpose in that respect, and we don't want to
be in watch houses any longer than we have.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
To be commission of Ali. There's going to be people
listening this morning thinking police and Corrections can't stop a
prisoner getting out of the watchhouse. How are these new
specialist officers going to stop a prisoner at the hospital
from maybe taking off, or or somebody taking off while
they're at court.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Well, I think your answer to that question, Katie, is
corrections is a risky business, right. These are prisoners, they
don't like being in custody. There's always a risk, and
that's why we have to have trained, qualified officers responding
to proper procedures. And that's what we train our officers
to do. And I think the other important thing to
point out to your listeners is some of these providers
(13:37):
that we are talking about inter state. These are very
large providers that run prisons, run transport escort services. So
if you look at Victoria, for example, they've had a
prisoner escort and transportation service in place for I think
more than twenty years, Katie. They run their own training academy.
They actually deliver the same Certificate three qualifications that our
(13:59):
officers get to that national standards. So again, this is
not about Bob security firm down the road, you know,
just throwing me a few guards that I'll chuck into
the hospital. Not the case. We'll be setting out those
specifications with the providers and it'll be up to them
to meet it.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
As you mentioned, you know, you've obviously got the union
who've been out speaking. I know there are you know,
there are correctional stuff that have contacted me that are
feeling pretty furious. They're saying that they feel worried about
the safety issues that this could present. Well, I guess
you know, the big thing that I want to ask
is is what do you say to those correctional stuff
(14:35):
this morning, because I think you've got, you know, you've
sort of got a bit of a juggle right now,
right where you've got the union who's maybe saying one thing,
you're saying another, and you've got staff who are really worried.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
And I understand when my staff are worried, and I
respect that, and I'm here to answer their questions. Every
day of the week. I wrote to staff about ten
pm last night. I had to because already some of
the misinformation was circulating in social media. Obviously, the government
had its planned announcements this morning, but I brought forward
my message to the agency last night to dispel some
(15:08):
of the misinformation that's circulating, and we will continue to
provide information today and in the days ahead. Now, a
couple of things, Katie, and I need to be really
blunt about this. You asked me, what would I say
to my officers. I'd say, your trained professionals, deal with
the evidence and the information and the facts that are
in front of you. Make your judgment. Don't listen to
(15:29):
the narrative that's running around on social media on the
radio this morning. Now. To be honest, Katie, I offered
the Union of briefing yesterday. I met with them. That
meeting lasted less than ten.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Minutes because they didn't want it to go further, or
you do.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I think Miss Early said on the radio this morning
that she terminated the meeting. So, you know, my senior
executive team and I sat down to provide a detailed briefing.
I got through my opening introductions and I pause and
I asked for any comments at that point, and they
terminated the meeting now eight or nine minutes, Katie.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
So are you saying that they're not communicating.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Well, what I'm saying is I didn't get an opportunity
to provide the union with all of the information I did.
I wanted to. I had a whole list. I wrote
a letter to the unions last night which explains in
more detail what you and I have just discussed. But
the narrative that's running around on the radio this morning
about you know, untrained, unqualified, random security companies is just
(16:26):
not true.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Look, I'd be really blunt about it. You know, a
lot of those correctional officers aren't going to be listening
to the ABC this morning. They're not going to care
too much what's been said there. But they are going
to care what you say to them today, and they're
going to They're worried, right and they're pissed. So you
know again, I mean, if there is one thing that
you can get across to them right now.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
What is that. What I'd say is read my message
from ten o'clock last night. I'm proud of you, I'm
proud of us. We have risen to the challenge. We're
going to keep doing that. We've got an enormous job
in front of us. You know, we have seen more
growth in this agency than ever before, and territorians expect
us to provide safety and security for the community. But
in our motto is also we want a safer territory,
(17:10):
but we also want reduced reoffending and change lives. Prisons
and Community Corrections is about recidivism, reduced reoffending. We need
more staff, we need better run prisons. We need more
time in your day to be able to do the
true work that you want, which is rehabilitation.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley, I always appreciate your time on
the show. Thank you very much for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Good morning, Katie, Thank you
The news that has come through over the last sort
of twelve hours is the COLP government have shocked correctional
staff across the Northern Territory late yesterday announcing that private
contractors are going to be used across the Northern Territory.
Now the government set to introduce will targeted amendments to
the Correctional Services Act for twenty fourteen, so that Act
(00:23):
is going to be updated subject to passage through the
Legislative Assembly. Now the Commissioner of Corrections will have the
power to appoint special officers to supplement the core corrections workforce.
These changes are going to include the secondment of interstate
officers and the appointment of specialist officers. I've already been
(00:44):
contacted by correctional officers voicing serious concerns about the changes now.
They say that they are worried that this is the
first step in privatizing corrections and they worry that the
appointment of special officers is going to mean that private
security are transporting some of the territories burst criminals. Now
joining me on the show is the Corrections Commissioner, Matthew Varley.
(01:07):
Good morning to your commissioner.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Good morning Katie.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Thanks so much for taking the time to come into
the studio to talk to us this morning. Now, Commissioner,
this is a massive move by the government. Why is
this happening.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
This is a significant change, Katie. You're absolutely right, but
it's necessary and it's necessary that it's done quick to
help us manage some of the urgent capacity constraints and
workforce pressures we've been seeing across our prisons. You spoke
with me a think about a week ago, and since then,
you know, we continue to see high numbers of prisons
are prisoners across the Northern Territory. We've got more than
(01:40):
twenty seven hundred people in custody. Watch houses are continuing
to be full and I don't see that trajectory changing
anytime soon. And not only in prisons, Katie, but in
our community supervision area. Our probation and prole officers are managing,
you know, some sixteen hundred people on community supervision orders.
(02:00):
We're now seeing more than six hundred people on electronic
monitoring devices around the territory. This trajectory of growth is
outstripping everything we've been able to throw at it. So
these are significant legislation changes that are complex and detailed.
I'm happy to talk through those, but they give me
the ability to put more people to a task as
(02:20):
we need to deploy.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
These are massive numbers. I mean, twenty seven hundred people
in those correctional facilities across the NT, sixteen hundred on
community orders. Did you say yes, that's correct, and then
you've got six hundred being monitored by electronic monitoring devices.
I mean, as I said, they are enormous numbers. How
BIG's the workforce covering off on.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
All those So our correctional officer workforce in the prisons
we have about seven hundred uniformed officers at the moment,
slightly less than I think two hundred odd probation and
prole offices in about eleven or twelve locations around the territory.
And of course we have a whole range of other
specialists support staff, including our psychologists, our educators, our aboriginal
(03:05):
support workers. So the total workforce including Youth Justice for
Corrections as it stands is close to fourteen hundred people.
But when you look at all of the specialties and
the disciplines and the professions that are required to do
the job, you know, we've always said short, we're short
staff we're under stretched, and I've never made an apology
about telling the truth on that.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So what exactly are these changes going to mean from
your perspective?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
So first thing to point out to your listeners, Katie,
and to everyone listening, including my staff, is we are
not just changing the Lord to give carte blanche authority
for me to employ anyone I like. There are some
specific provisions there to provide the appointment powers for what
we're calling special correctional officers and special probation and prole officers. Now,
(03:51):
that doesn't change the requirements under the Act for the
appointment of a correctional officer normal as a public sector
employee and a probation and parole officer. What this amendment
does allows me to do two or three things. One,
if I needed to borrow a surge workforce or borrow
special officers from another jurisdiction, like you know, another state
or territory, and also contract providers to help us with
(04:14):
our jobs. And we can provide I guess, appointments to
those officers to do specific tasks. We can provide them
appointments to limit the scope of their powers to a
specific functional task. We don't just give them carte blanche
powers across the whole Northern Territory. And it also gives
me the power to only appoint that person if I'm
(04:34):
satisfied that the person has the qualifications, the skills or
the experience to properly perform the functions that I assigned them.
That's in the legislation. Now. For example, your listeners would
remember Katie. Only a couple of weeks ago, the Police
Commissioner was able to lean on and call on the
assistance of South Australia Police in Alice Springs. That's a
great thing. Police have long had the ability to appoint
(04:58):
special constables from another jurisdiction. We don't have that same
power in the Correctional Services Act.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Look, I don't get the impression from the correctional stuff
that I've spoken to that they're so concerned about the
secondment of interstate officers. They seem quite worried about contract
providers coming in and obviously you know, doing things like
transporting prisoners. Also you know, being there at the hospital
(05:27):
to keep an eye on a prisoner who may need
to go to the hospital, and also those court appearances. Now,
the reasons that I've been given by some of those
correctional stuff is that they are worried about safety. They're
worried about the safety of the broader community. I mean,
what kind of contract providers are we talking about here?
Is it the likes of Circa, Is it like Wilson's Security?
(05:48):
What's it going to be.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So let's put a few clear things on the table here, Katie,
to dispel some of the concerns that your listeners, the community,
and my officers might have. And I'm going to try
and be really clear as we step through this. Firstly,
nothing changes in the Correctional Services Act. That ultimately means
I have to be satisfied that I'm in control of
the safety and security of offenders in the Northern Territory.
(06:10):
That's number one. Number two is we know our extraordinary
hard working offices and workforce out there are doing hours
of overtime, huge amounts of excess duties. We're moving prisoners
all over the territory all the time. On any given day,
I have probably half a dozen prisoners in hospital and
(06:30):
on each of those prisoners, we have to have officers.
Those offices are taken out of the roster of the jails.
On any other given day, Monday to Friday. I have
eight officers sitting in the Darwin Local Court operating those cells.
We have people on medical escorts, renal escorts, we escort
prisoners to funerals. Some of those duties can be provided
(06:51):
by other service providers. And again this is not a
new practice, Katie. Now large jurisdictions and I'll give you
an example. Victoria, South Australia, WA have been doing this
for years. This is not new and there are major
providers out there in this country. And I'm not talking
about you know, Bob Security company down the road. There
(07:12):
are major companies who provide qualified, trained and professional workforces
to do these tasks. And that's what we're talking about,
because that's a worry.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I suppose that you know that I'm hearing from from
normal punters as well, sort of going, well, hang on
a second, is it going to be security like we
have at bottle shops and like we've got at shopping
centers who are not intervening when people might expect them to.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, no, of course, And I get why people are
concerned about that. But that's why we're here to try
and explain some of this information and legislation changes and
mind you you know, there's been radio commentary this morning
by the union that says we're going to employ, you know,
a local security company and throw them in the jail untrained.
Completely not the case. Let's just be one hundred percent
(07:53):
clear on that. We have the ability to approach some
of these companies and ask for a proposal, go to market,
say this is the services that we want you to provide.
How could you do it? Shall wish your qualifications and
where's the workforce coming from?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So, Commissioner, you are going to obviously you've got to
be satisfied with who is going to ultimately do this
job and who is ultimately going to be sort of
you know, stepping into the corrections realm. Some might be
listening this morning thinking that's going to be difficult for you.
You know, you're already dealing with a small city or
a small community. You know, when you look at the
(08:29):
volume of prisoners that you've got and also when you
look at the volume of workforce that you're currently overseeing.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah, which is why we've had to take these changes, Katie.
Let's be honest about that. You know, we have been
recruiting hard for two years now, but the growth of
that recruitment in our workforce is being outpaced by the
growth of people in prison. It's as simple as that. Now,
what that means is and I've been really clear about
this too in my messaging to our people. No one's
(08:56):
losing their job out of this.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Are they losing maybe extra over time hours that they
might be reliant on.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Well, I can't answer that question. But the point is
we know that our officers have spent you know, can
I say dozens, maybe even a couple of hundred shifts
a week on overtime managing all of these movements, And
that's exhausting, that's tiring, it takes them away from their families.
It also means that those offices are not available for
overtime shifts in the prisons, and that's what causes lockdowns
(09:24):
and you know, disruptions to programs. We know, and I
think I said this to you last time. I've had
to close down industry services, I've had to close down
education programs. My psychologists can't get into the prisons to
do the work they need to do to treat these offenders.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
So you reckon that this is actually going to help
in terms of being able to deliver all of those
services to prisoners.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Again one hundred percent Codie. And that's the whole point.
If I can get twenty thirty forty officers a day
back in my jails, that's twenty or thirty forty officers
that can be put to the professional task that they're
trained to do. And that's what this is about.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Are you anticipating that that is, you know, through a
private contractor that that is the number of staff that
they're realistically going to need, Like that's kind of the volume.
It's about thirty forty.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I think it's more than that, to be honest with you,
And we're going to grow it over time. So what
we will do, and when I grow it over time,
what I'm saying is to meet the urgent need. I
will be going to the market as soon as this
legislation passes. And bear in mind, I can't do that,
of course, until the law passes parliament, right, you know,
the government needs to do its thing, and then I'll
(10:30):
have approval to go to the market and say, you know,
to these major providers, here's my problem. This is the
shortage that we're seeing. These are the tasks that you
could potentially help me with. Give me a proposal. Then
we'll work through that proposal and it might be that
we start small and we scale up over the next
few months. But we'll be doing it all with the
right procurement, we'll be doing it all with the right legals,
(10:51):
and we'll be doing it all with the right assessment
to make sure the community is safe and that our
officers concerns will listen to.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
If you have just joined us, we are in this
studio with the Northern Territory Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley now Commissioner.
Last night we obviously had a prisoner escape the Darwin
Watchhouse under the care of Police and Corrections. Thirty three
year old Chris Cooper fled sometime between three point fifty
in the afternoon and five pm. He was last seen
(11:20):
in the Karama area about six point thirty last night,
traveling in a blue great Wall ute with the registration
CF six ' nine NG. First off, is there any
update on that prisoner.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
What my understanding is, and this is subject to police
information and their investigations. They're leading obviously the charge on
that location and that investigation. I'm going to let them
do their jobs because that's what they're there for. I
also need to be really clear that the officer, sorry,
the prisoner was in our custody, not police custody. We
operate the Darwin Watchhouse, so just to be fair to
(11:53):
the police, this is our facility and we as soon
as we identified that prisoner being missing around seventeen hundred yesterday,
police were notified and we had seen your officers from
police and seenior officers from our site on site. Obviously,
the investigation into that escape and the apprehension of that
offender takes its course, but right now we've got our
(12:15):
investigations and safety and security team at the facility this
morning commencing a review into that incident to find out
what's happened.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, there's going to be people listening that are going,
how on earth do you get out of a secure facility.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Well, the answer to that at the moment appears to
be several fire escape doors, Katie, and we'll work through
that inquiry. I don't want to jump to a conclusion
on what, when and how, but the obvious exit point
is the fire escape and that's what the CCTV and
other things tell us. I guess it goes to show
and in fairness, it goes to show the pressures that
(12:48):
our officers are under operating these watch houses. I've always
said a watchhouse is not a prison. We're not fit
for purpose in that respect, and we don't want to
be in watch houses any longer than we have.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
To be commission of Ali. There's going to be people
listening this morning thinking police and Corrections can't stop a
prisoner getting out of the watchhouse. How are these new
specialist officers going to stop a prisoner at the hospital
from maybe taking off, or or somebody taking off while
they're at court.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Well, I think your answer to that question, Katie, is
corrections is a risky business, right. These are prisoners, they
don't like being in custody. There's always a risk, and
that's why we have to have trained, qualified officers responding
to proper procedures. And that's what we train our officers
to do. And I think the other important thing to
point out to your listeners is some of these providers
(13:37):
that we are talking about inter state. These are very
large providers that run prisons, run transport escort services. So
if you look at Victoria, for example, they've had a
prisoner escort and transportation service in place for I think
more than twenty years, Katie. They run their own training academy.
They actually deliver the same Certificate three qualifications that our
(13:59):
officers get to that national standards. So again, this is
not about Bob security firm down the road, you know,
just throwing me a few guards that I'll chuck into
the hospital. Not the case. We'll be setting out those
specifications with the providers and it'll be up to them
to meet it.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
As you mentioned, you know, you've obviously got the union
who've been out speaking. I know there are you know,
there are correctional stuff that have contacted me that are
feeling pretty furious. They're saying that they feel worried about
the safety issues that this could present. Well, I guess
you know, the big thing that I want to ask
is is what do you say to those correctional stuff
(14:35):
this morning, because I think you've got, you know, you've
sort of got a bit of a juggle right now,
right where you've got the union who's maybe saying one thing,
you're saying another, and you've got staff who are really worried.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
And I understand when my staff are worried, and I
respect that, and I'm here to answer their questions. Every
day of the week. I wrote to staff about ten
pm last night. I had to because already some of
the misinformation was circulating in social media. Obviously, the government
had its planned announcements this morning, but I brought forward
my message to the agency last night to dispel some
(15:08):
of the misinformation that's circulating, and we will continue to
provide information today and in the days ahead. Now, a
couple of things, Katie, and I need to be really
blunt about this. You asked me, what would I say
to my officers. I'd say, your trained professionals, deal with
the evidence and the information and the facts that are
in front of you. Make your judgment. Don't listen to
(15:29):
the narrative that's running around on social media on the
radio this morning. Now. To be honest, Katie, I offered
the Union of briefing yesterday. I met with them. That
meeting lasted less than ten.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Minutes because they didn't want it to go further, or
you do.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I think Miss Early said on the radio this morning
that she terminated the meeting. So, you know, my senior
executive team and I sat down to provide a detailed briefing.
I got through my opening introductions and I pause and
I asked for any comments at that point, and they
terminated the meeting now eight or nine minutes, Katie.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
So are you saying that they're not communicating.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Well, what I'm saying is I didn't get an opportunity
to provide the union with all of the information I did.
I wanted to. I had a whole list. I wrote
a letter to the unions last night which explains in
more detail what you and I have just discussed. But
the narrative that's running around on the radio this morning
about you know, untrained, unqualified, random security companies is just
(16:26):
not true.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Look, I'd be really blunt about it. You know, a
lot of those correctional officers aren't going to be listening
to the ABC this morning. They're not going to care
too much what's been said there. But they are going
to care what you say to them today, and they're
going to They're worried, right and they're pissed. So you
know again, I mean, if there is one thing that
you can get across to them right now.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
What is that. What I'd say is read my message
from ten o'clock last night. I'm proud of you, I'm
proud of us. We have risen to the challenge. We're
going to keep doing that. We've got an enormous job
in front of us. You know, we have seen more
growth in this agency than ever before, and territorians expect
us to provide safety and security for the community. But
in our motto is also we want a safer territory,
(17:10):
but we also want reduced reoffending and change lives. Prisons
and Community Corrections is about recidivism, reduced reoffending. We need
more staff, we need better run prisons. We need more
time in your day to be able to do the
true work that you want, which is rehabilitation.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley, I always appreciate your time on
the show. Thank you very much for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Good morning, Katie, Thank you
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