Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Last week, correctional staff across the Northern Territory were left
shocked after the government ann outset contractors will be used
in a number of roles across the Northern Territory, as
you heard from the Chief Minister yesterday. When Parliament resumes
this week, the government is set to introduce targeted amendments
to the Correctional Services Act of twenty fourteen, now subject
(00:21):
to passage through the Legislative Assembly. The Commissioner of Corrections
is going to have the power to appoint special officers
to supplement the core corrections workforce. These changes will include
the secondment of interstate officers and the appointment of specialist officers. Now,
the United Workers' Union Secretary Erina Early joins me on
(00:43):
the line. Good morning to.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You, Erina, morning, Katie, how are you.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
You're really good? Thank you so much for your time
this morning. Now, Erina, correctional officers have raised some really
serious concerns with me about these changes. What are they
telling you?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Thanks, Look, we've had a couple of mass member meetings
in Alice Springs and Darwin since the announcement made on
Thursday evening about starting to privatize some of the roles
of correctional officers. They're absolutely disappointed. They're frustrated, they're angry.
They cannot believe their commissioner and this government are actually
(01:23):
putting these place things into place because it is privatization.
The Seals promised them they would not privatize the prison.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Now, I understand you met with the Corrections Commissioner again yesterday.
Is that the case?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
No, that's not correct.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Oh, okay, So there wasn't another There hasn't been another meeting.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
No, there's been no meeting. We've requested to meet with
the minister as we'd like a briefing of these amendments.
We'd like to see copies of their members, but we
haven't got a response back yet.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Keithan okay, So keen to try and keep with Keen
to try and meet I should say, with the Corrections
Minister Jared Mayley.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yes, that's correct, all right.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
We caught up with Matthew Valley, the Corrections Commissioner, on
Friday last week. Now he said that he'd tried to
meet with the union. Take a listen to what he
told us on the show.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
To be honest, Katie, I offered the union of briefing
yesterday I met with them. That meeting lasted less than ten.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Minutes because they didn't want it to go further, or
you did.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I think Miss Early said on the radio this morning
that she terminated the meeting. So my senior executive team
and I sat down to provide a detailed briefing. I
got through my opening introductions and I paused, and I
asked for any comments at that point, and they terminated
the meeting. Now eight or nine minutes, Katie, and.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So are you saying that they're not communicating?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Well, what I'm saying is I didn't get an opportunity
to provide the union with all of the information I did.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I wanted to.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
I had a whole list.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Erina, what do you say to those claims from the
Corrections Commissioner Matthew Valley?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
So, Katie, I think you can provide a bit of
a misleading information he provided. I did a summary of
what they're looking to implement, which was these privatized labor
higher positions. We gave him a quick response that we
are actually disgusted that he's going down this way, and
we did. We walked out of the meeting.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Wouldn't that be appropriate to ask some further questions, So
for your members, so you can get some clarification.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Well, the thing is it's pretty clear and what he
told us they will bring him in the labor higher Katie,
So we didn't need any more information from us. We've
had clear to instructions from our members. We have no
trust or faith in Commissioner Vali. He says one thing
and the next day he comes out with further misleading
and what we call blatant lives.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So from your perspective, you don't feel as though the
Commissioner is being honest. You feel as though they are
going down the path of privatizing the workforce and correction stuff.
Are not happy about this, despite the fact that there
were no questions asked in that meeting.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Absolutely, Katie is. We had a member meeting yesterday and
Dar we had over two hundred officers squashed in to
a room yesterday and all of them unanimously said they
have lost all faith in Commission of Bali. They're sick
of his lives. He has never met with any of
the officers at all, never gone down to corrections and
stood in front of them and explained himself to them.
(04:20):
We will always promise he would never be privatized, but
he has agreed to go ahead and do this.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
So erona talk us through exactly what those members said yesterday.
Did you say more than two hundred at that meeting yesterday?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Absolutely, and we had roughly about sixty seventy alice springs
last week as well.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And what did they say you know about the changes?
Obviously you've pointed out what they said about Commission of Vali,
but what have they said about the changes? What exactly
are their concerns here?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Well, their concerns is that this is starting as a
small part of privatization and it will get bigger and bigger,
and then the whole corrections will be privatized. They're angry
because they will promised by the COLP that nothing would
be privatized, but this is happening. This is a commencement
of privatization. They've said they've lost all trust in Commission
of Vali. They are talking about a voter no confidence
(05:12):
against Commissioner vari. Members are talking about their concerns of
work health and safety, working with people who are not qualified,
because Commissioner of Vallei has their ultimate power to appoint
anyone as a correctional officer. They feel undervalued because they
are qualified and experienced correctional officers and they're allowing workers
(05:33):
in there who are not qualified. Prisoners will know that
these new people are not qualified, and it runs the
risk higher risk of riots and assaults. They are really
really worried about their safety.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
So the Commissioner has said to us, and we spoke
to the Chief Minister about it yesterday. And I want
to say right from the outset that I have been
contacted by a large number of correction staff and to me,
they seem like they are really upset with these changes.
They're really worried about safety. They are worried about a
whole raft of things. But from what the commissioners said
(06:08):
to me, and also what the Chief Minister had said
to me, is that the whole aim of these changes
is to try and ease the pressure for our correctional stuff.
So they're saying that those you know that these specialist
officers are not going to be inside the wire, I
think is the right word. They're going to be doing
those transporting of prisoners. They're going to be doing things
(06:30):
like escorting prisoners to the hospital if somebody needs to
go to the hospital. Those kinds of jobs. So I
suppose the question is, you know there are people listening
this morning who are going to be going. I get
that the correctional staff are upset, but isn't this all
in an effort to try and help them.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Well, no, we don't believe that, Katie. Officers don't believe
that either. Our biggest crisis that we have is there
is no accommodation or infrastructure for the prisoners. This is
a serious crisis and they're using staffing to hide behind that. Katie,
especially Darwin is we don't have a staffing issue. We
(07:11):
have a crisis where there is nowhere to put these prisoners.
There's absolutely nowhere to put them. Alice Springs, yes, he
is different, but they've had a staffing crisis for thirty years, Katie.
I've been on your show many times talking about the
staffing crisis there. So our members completely do not believe
that the Minister or the commissioner are doing this to
(07:33):
help to the safety of the officers to alleviate some
of the pressure. Minister Maylee's already gone to the media
and said this is going to help us reduce our
overtime budget. It's a cost involved in this as well.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
So where to from here because it seems as though
there's a bit of a stale mate. It seems like
we're in a situation where the government is intent on
making these changes, correctional officers are not happy with the changes.
So where to from here?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Well, that's an interesting question, Katie. I think people need
to watch this space. The correctional officers are not going
to go down lightly with this at all. You have
got over six hundred very angry correctional officers here who
supported the sealp's actions for you know, law and order.
But I absolutely could not believe that you had a
(08:23):
focus on law and order. But there was no plan
at all for the increased prisons numbers from the government.
And this is what they're upset about. They have worked tirelessly,
I was saying, Alice Springs understaff, you know, overcrowding, etc.
And been doing this for months since August, since all
these changes came in and all the increased numbers, and
(08:45):
now they feel that they have been slapped in the
face by this government and their commissioner.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
So erin are we expecting I mean, correctional officers going
to strike?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Well, I think you just need to watch a space Katie.
I can't say at the moment, but we are planning
some strategies under work health and safety.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
And you mentioned before a potential vote of no confidence
in the Corrections commissioner. How would something like that roll out? Well?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
At the moment he was unanicusly agreed by the members
on Friday, and Alice Screen to Darwin yesterday that they
want the union to petition every officer to see if
they support a voted no confidence. So we'll know in
a week's time if the voting no confidence is supported
by the correctional officers and then we'll table that with the.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Minister Erona, what do you say to those people listening
this morning, because we've been getting messages about this over
the last few days and there are members of the
public that are saying, Katie, the correctional staff have been
calling for support. Now the government's trying to provide some
support and they don't want it. I mean, what do
you say to those people listening who are feeling that way?
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Okay, thanks for look. I appreciate people are frustrated, but
I think people need to listen to correctional officers. We
have been telling commission of Valley. Different ways of addressing things.
And I'm not sure if Katie or your listeners know
you've actually got as Burma has been reopened again to
do with the overslow. You actually have a section of
(10:20):
the old Berriman jail string Bark there. You've got one
hundred and sixty prisoners can be placed into this area
in six weeks. The beds and everything are there, yes,
but the government have refused this because they're saying it's
going to cost a bit of money to fix the wires.
One hundred and sixty prisoners. That means all of Palmerston
(10:40):
Watchhouse and Don't watch House will be completely cleaned out.
The watchhouses can be given back to police so they
can do their jobs. But why has that not been used.
We've been asking for it. The government did say Katie
that they would do it a couple of months ago.
Now they've backflipped on it. But our members are looking
for it. We want this open. This is a good resource.
(11:04):
The tax pays money and can have one hundred and
sixty prisoners in six weeks.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
So, Erina, you are saying that Stringy Bark, that area
could accommodate one hundred and sixty people, as you know,
pretty quickly with just a bit of work to the wire. Absolutely,
and you reckon that they're those two watchhouses or I
guess it's more at the moment, isn't it three Alice
springs as well? I'm thinking about there, But they could
(11:30):
be cleaned out. You could actually have them utilized again
for prisoners, if corrections could utilize Stringybark. Absolutely, how are
correctional staff feelings sort of knowing that.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
That's where they're pretty frustrated, Katie, because they've been putting
this to the commissioner. We're assuming the commissioners putting that
to the minister. But for some reason the government will
not move on this.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Is it a situation where they're not doing it because
they don't have enough staff?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
No, we've got the starting to fill it in Darwin.
Starting is not an issue in Darwin. We have been
told it's completely due to money.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
So how much I mean, I know that you're obviously
not an expert in the finances. I'm assuming with the
costs associated with fixing that wire, but how much do
we have any idea how much it could cost to fix.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Well, we've been told roughly it would be under a
million dollars to get it all ready to roll in
six weeks time.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
All right, well, we'll certainly ask some questions about that.
Erina Early, the secretary of the United Workers' Union. I
always appreciate your time. Thank you so much for joining
us this morning.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Always my pleasure. Katie, have a lovely day
Speaker 1 (12:46):
You too, Thank you, thanks so much.
Last week, correctional staff across the Northern Territory were left
shocked after the government ann outset contractors will be used
in a number of roles across the Northern Territory, as
you heard from the Chief Minister yesterday. When Parliament resumes
this week, the government is set to introduce targeted amendments
to the Correctional Services Act of twenty fourteen, now subject
(00:21):
to passage through the Legislative Assembly. The Commissioner of Corrections
is going to have the power to appoint special officers
to supplement the core corrections workforce. These changes will include
the secondment of interstate officers and the appointment of specialist officers. Now,
the United Workers' Union Secretary Erina Early joins me on
(00:43):
the line. Good morning to.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You, Erina, morning, Katie, how are you.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
You're really good? Thank you so much for your time
this morning. Now, Erina, correctional officers have raised some really
serious concerns with me about these changes. What are they
telling you?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Thanks, Look, we've had a couple of mass member meetings
in Alice Springs and Darwin since the announcement made on
Thursday evening about starting to privatize some of the roles
of correctional officers. They're absolutely disappointed. They're frustrated, they're angry.
They cannot believe their commissioner and this government are actually
(01:23):
putting these place things into place because it is privatization.
The Seals promised them they would not privatize the prison.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Now, I understand you met with the Corrections Commissioner again yesterday.
Is that the case?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
No, that's not correct.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Oh, okay, So there wasn't another There hasn't been another meeting.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
No, there's been no meeting. We've requested to meet with
the minister as we'd like a briefing of these amendments.
We'd like to see copies of their members, but we
haven't got a response back yet.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Keithan okay, So keen to try and keep with Keen
to try and meet I should say, with the Corrections
Minister Jared Mayley.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yes, that's correct, all right.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
We caught up with Matthew Valley, the Corrections Commissioner, on
Friday last week. Now he said that he'd tried to
meet with the union. Take a listen to what he
told us on the show.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
To be honest, Katie, I offered the union of briefing
yesterday I met with them. That meeting lasted less than ten.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Minutes because they didn't want it to go further, or
you did.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I think Miss Early said on the radio this morning
that she terminated the meeting. So my senior executive team
and I sat down to provide a detailed briefing. I
got through my opening introductions and I paused, and I
asked for any comments at that point, and they terminated
the meeting. Now eight or nine minutes, Katie, and.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So are you saying that they're not communicating?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Well, what I'm saying is I didn't get an opportunity
to provide the union with all of the information I did.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I wanted to.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
I had a whole list.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Erina, what do you say to those claims from the
Corrections Commissioner Matthew Valley?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
So, Katie, I think you can provide a bit of
a misleading information he provided. I did a summary of
what they're looking to implement, which was these privatized labor
higher positions. We gave him a quick response that we
are actually disgusted that he's going down this way, and
we did. We walked out of the meeting.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Wouldn't that be appropriate to ask some further questions, So
for your members, so you can get some clarification.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Well, the thing is it's pretty clear and what he
told us they will bring him in the labor higher Katie,
So we didn't need any more information from us. We've
had clear to instructions from our members. We have no
trust or faith in Commissioner Vali. He says one thing
and the next day he comes out with further misleading
and what we call blatant lives.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So from your perspective, you don't feel as though the
Commissioner is being honest. You feel as though they are
going down the path of privatizing the workforce and correction stuff.
Are not happy about this, despite the fact that there
were no questions asked in that meeting.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Absolutely, Katie is. We had a member meeting yesterday and
Dar we had over two hundred officers squashed in to
a room yesterday and all of them unanimously said they
have lost all faith in Commission of Bali. They're sick
of his lives. He has never met with any of
the officers at all, never gone down to corrections and
stood in front of them and explained himself to them.
(04:20):
We will always promise he would never be privatized, but
he has agreed to go ahead and do this.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
So erona talk us through exactly what those members said yesterday.
Did you say more than two hundred at that meeting yesterday?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Absolutely, and we had roughly about sixty seventy alice springs
last week as well.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And what did they say you know about the changes?
Obviously you've pointed out what they said about Commission of Vali,
but what have they said about the changes? What exactly
are their concerns here?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Well, their concerns is that this is starting as a
small part of privatization and it will get bigger and bigger,
and then the whole corrections will be privatized. They're angry
because they will promised by the COLP that nothing would
be privatized, but this is happening. This is a commencement
of privatization. They've said they've lost all trust in Commission
of Vali. They are talking about a voter no confidence
(05:12):
against Commissioner vari. Members are talking about their concerns of
work health and safety, working with people who are not qualified,
because Commissioner of Vallei has their ultimate power to appoint
anyone as a correctional officer. They feel undervalued because they
are qualified and experienced correctional officers and they're allowing workers
(05:33):
in there who are not qualified. Prisoners will know that
these new people are not qualified, and it runs the
risk higher risk of riots and assaults. They are really
really worried about their safety.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
So the Commissioner has said to us, and we spoke
to the Chief Minister about it yesterday. And I want
to say right from the outset that I have been
contacted by a large number of correction staff and to me,
they seem like they are really upset with these changes.
They're really worried about safety. They are worried about a
whole raft of things. But from what the commissioners said
(06:08):
to me, and also what the Chief Minister had said
to me, is that the whole aim of these changes
is to try and ease the pressure for our correctional stuff.
So they're saying that those you know that these specialist
officers are not going to be inside the wire, I
think is the right word. They're going to be doing
those transporting of prisoners. They're going to be doing things
(06:30):
like escorting prisoners to the hospital if somebody needs to
go to the hospital. Those kinds of jobs. So I
suppose the question is, you know there are people listening
this morning who are going to be going. I get
that the correctional staff are upset, but isn't this all
in an effort to try and help them.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Well, no, we don't believe that, Katie. Officers don't believe
that either. Our biggest crisis that we have is there
is no accommodation or infrastructure for the prisoners. This is
a serious crisis and they're using staffing to hide behind that. Katie,
especially Darwin is we don't have a staffing issue. We
(07:11):
have a crisis where there is nowhere to put these prisoners.
There's absolutely nowhere to put them. Alice Springs, yes, he
is different, but they've had a staffing crisis for thirty years, Katie.
I've been on your show many times talking about the
staffing crisis there. So our members completely do not believe
that the Minister or the commissioner are doing this to
(07:33):
help to the safety of the officers to alleviate some
of the pressure. Minister Maylee's already gone to the media
and said this is going to help us reduce our
overtime budget. It's a cost involved in this as well.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
So where to from here because it seems as though
there's a bit of a stale mate. It seems like
we're in a situation where the government is intent on
making these changes, correctional officers are not happy with the changes.
So where to from here?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Well, that's an interesting question, Katie. I think people need
to watch this space. The correctional officers are not going
to go down lightly with this at all. You have
got over six hundred very angry correctional officers here who
supported the sealp's actions for you know, law and order.
But I absolutely could not believe that you had a
(08:23):
focus on law and order. But there was no plan
at all for the increased prisons numbers from the government.
And this is what they're upset about. They have worked tirelessly,
I was saying, Alice Springs understaff, you know, overcrowding, etc.
And been doing this for months since August, since all
these changes came in and all the increased numbers, and
(08:45):
now they feel that they have been slapped in the
face by this government and their commissioner.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
So erin are we expecting I mean, correctional officers going
to strike?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Well, I think you just need to watch a space Katie.
I can't say at the moment, but we are planning
some strategies under work health and safety.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
And you mentioned before a potential vote of no confidence
in the Corrections commissioner. How would something like that roll out? Well?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
At the moment he was unanicusly agreed by the members
on Friday, and Alice Screen to Darwin yesterday that they
want the union to petition every officer to see if
they support a voted no confidence. So we'll know in
a week's time if the voting no confidence is supported
by the correctional officers and then we'll table that with the.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Minister Erona, what do you say to those people listening
this morning, because we've been getting messages about this over
the last few days and there are members of the
public that are saying, Katie, the correctional staff have been
calling for support. Now the government's trying to provide some
support and they don't want it. I mean, what do
you say to those people listening who are feeling that way?
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Okay, thanks for look. I appreciate people are frustrated, but
I think people need to listen to correctional officers. We
have been telling commission of Valley. Different ways of addressing things.
And I'm not sure if Katie or your listeners know
you've actually got as Burma has been reopened again to
do with the overslow. You actually have a section of
(10:20):
the old Berriman jail string Bark there. You've got one
hundred and sixty prisoners can be placed into this area
in six weeks. The beds and everything are there, yes,
but the government have refused this because they're saying it's
going to cost a bit of money to fix the wires.
One hundred and sixty prisoners. That means all of Palmerston
(10:40):
Watchhouse and Don't watch House will be completely cleaned out.
The watchhouses can be given back to police so they
can do their jobs. But why has that not been used.
We've been asking for it. The government did say Katie
that they would do it a couple of months ago.
Now they've backflipped on it. But our members are looking
for it. We want this open. This is a good resource.
(11:04):
The tax pays money and can have one hundred and
sixty prisoners in six weeks.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
So, Erina, you are saying that Stringy Bark, that area
could accommodate one hundred and sixty people, as you know,
pretty quickly with just a bit of work to the wire. Absolutely,
and you reckon that they're those two watchhouses or I
guess it's more at the moment, isn't it three Alice
springs as well? I'm thinking about there, But they could
(11:30):
be cleaned out. You could actually have them utilized again
for prisoners, if corrections could utilize Stringybark. Absolutely, how are
correctional staff feelings sort of knowing that.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
That's where they're pretty frustrated, Katie, because they've been putting
this to the commissioner. We're assuming the commissioners putting that
to the minister. But for some reason the government will
not move on this.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Is it a situation where they're not doing it because
they don't have enough staff?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
No, we've got the starting to fill it in Darwin.
Starting is not an issue in Darwin. We have been
told it's completely due to money.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
So how much I mean, I know that you're obviously
not an expert in the finances. I'm assuming with the
costs associated with fixing that wire, but how much do
we have any idea how much it could cost to fix.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Well, we've been told roughly it would be under a
million dollars to get it all ready to roll in
six weeks time.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
All right, well, we'll certainly ask some questions about that.
Erina Early, the secretary of the United Workers' Union. I
always appreciate your time. Thank you so much for joining
us this morning.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Always my pleasure. Katie, have a lovely day
Speaker 1 (12:46):
You too, Thank you, thanks so much.
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