The Week That Was - 14th February 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
And joining us in the studio this morning. We have
got the Minister for Health and also Alcohol Policy, Steve Edgington.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Good morning to you, Good morning Katie, and good morning
to all the listeners up here in Darwin.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Good to have you on the show from Sky News.
The bureau chief of the Northern Territory, Northern Australia.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Is it Matt Northern Australia. Yes, Northern Australia. Late last year,
ah spent most of.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Your time in the Northern Territory where it really mad
as Hey yeah. And Selena Rubo, the Opposition leader, good.

Speaker 4 (00:29):
Morning to you, Good morning Katie and your listeners and
a big shout out to ever running kay Town.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Lovely to have you all in the studio today. And
I tell you what, I can't remember a week that's
been as busy when it comes to Parliament. There has
been so much going on around the place. And late
yesterday the Northern Territori's anti corruption watchdog released the long
awaited findings from an investigation into alleged labor misuse of
taxpayer funds in the lead up to the twenty twenty election,

(00:57):
making no adverse findings against any individual. However, the report
found well, it's the final report, I should say, of
this Operation Jupiter, Part two. It was tabled into Parliament
yesterday afternoon and the report followed allegations concerning former Labor
Chief Minister Michael Gunner and his ministerial staff, who were

(01:19):
referred to the eyekak amid claims of improper conduct by
ministerial staff leading up to the twenty twenty Northern Territory
general election. Now, these investigations have confirmed that in the
months leading up to the twenty twenty election, officers within
the Office of the Chief Minister, and in particular the
Digital Unit, performed political campaign work with within normal office

(01:43):
hours and while being paid from the public purse. Now,
I've got to tell you this is exactly the kind
of thing that makes Territorians furious, you know, the thought
of being paid on the taxpayer's dime to try and
win an election. Well, I think a lot of us

(02:04):
could pretty well see what was going on at the time.
I mean, Matt, I know you and I had probably
had discussions about it, you know, at that time in
the lead into the election, because there was things like,
you know, there was different posts, there was different stuff
happening that you kind of go, Well, hang on a second,
I'm not sure that this I'm not sure that this
passes the pub test for one, but you know, does

(02:25):
it pass actually like codes of conduct in the way
in which it should be conducting yourself in you know,
in your work hours when you're meant to be following
out a job as a public servant.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah, and obviously the the IKAK has now found that
things were not done properly and in line with how
they should be. There is there's this I don't know
where the gray area is the right word, but there's
always been this crossover right where political staff then when
it gets into campaign mode basically go and campaign and
they're told to campaign like it's no secret, but they're

(02:59):
not supposed to do it in work hours on the
taxpayer dime. Like if you're if you work for a
government minister, you're the chief of staff to the transport
minister or whatever. You know, it would not be unsurprising
for you to be told, well, hey, on Saturday, you're
going outdoor knocking, which is a party political thing to do.
But they've clearly broken the rules here because they were

(03:19):
doing things during work hours and they were publishing social
media posts, etc. That were clearly party political that were
being done. You know, as you know that they were
there in their role as a paid government staff member
paid by the taxpayer, they were doing party political things.
And this of course follows the flight drama.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
That's exactly right. Well, but my big question here is
I mean with something like this and looking into the
social media side of things, this is where you can
go back and there's a digital footprint, right, so this
is the stuff that you can go back and find.
What about the stuff that you can't do? You know
what I'm saying, Like, you trust me? I know because
I've actually worked in as many years ago.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Are you saying we should trust? Should we trust them?
When they said, oh, these couple of social media posts,
that was the only thing that was done. We didn't
make any front calls. You remember remember in the in
the flight in the aikak reporting to the flights, it
was like that have actually been locked into the diary
and stuff. You know how they were going to do it,
that those flights were there to coincide with when the

(04:22):
voting was happening in those remote community.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Trust me again, I'm not stupid enough to think that
it only happens under one political party, and in this instance, obviously,
you know, Michael Gunner has been caught with these pants down.
For want of a better way of putting it, I mean, Selena,
it's it's pretty dreadful. It's a pretty ordinary situation that
staff members who are public servants that you know, that

(04:46):
are not supposed to be doing that stuff during work
hours are absolutely campaigning to try and win us an
election during work hours, getting paid, you know, by the taxpayer.

Speaker 5 (04:57):
Katie.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
This is why Labor, former Labor did bring in the
IKAK to investigate matters like this. I'm determined as the
new leader of the Labor Party to make sure that
we don't repeat any of the mistakes of the past
of any of the leaders or any of the.

Speaker 5 (05:11):
Things that we're done.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
So we fully adopt and agree with the recommendations. Obviously,
the first report that was released by the IKAK in
June twenty twenty four, the former Chief Minister Eva Lawler
took on those recommendations and immediately started to implement some
of those changes. Obviously, we've had an election since then.

(05:32):
This is now Report number two and I'm now the
leader of the Labor Party and I absolutely accept all
the recommendations.

Speaker 5 (05:40):
We don't want to see that.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
I know, territories don't want to see bad government and
anything to do with that balance and what Matt's saying,
you know, the political and the responsibility as a paid
government worker. We want to make sure that there's a
clear separation of that and we don't need to repeat
those mistakes of the past.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
I think, Cadie, you know, looking at what Matt said,
you know, if you go back to the travel as well,
you know the previous report that highlighted some of the
travel roots that were going on back then, but this
again just shows and when you put both of those
reports together, what it shows is that the travel roots,
the use of taxpayers money to I think you know,

(06:20):
the report spoke about the it people were putting at
together a whole lot of political campaign material. But this
reflects very poorly on Michael Gunner. He was the chief
Minister at the time, there's no doubt about that. But
you know, moving forward, we're very clear coming into government
that these issues need to be stamped out. That's why
we've brought in a new Ministerial Code of conduct and

(06:42):
you know we want to reinforce transparency, transparency, accountability in
public office.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
So well, Steve, I want to believe you. I want
to believe every political party. I want to believe you
to Selena, But unfortunately, I've been around long enough to
know that after a period of time, behavior unfortunately seems
to deterior. Right. I'm sure you probably think the same thing, Matt.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
It does. I love new governments in their commitment to
openness and transparency.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
Say how many times did you hear it from Michael Gunner?

Speaker 3 (07:14):
They labeled it, They tabled a whole thirty six page
document on restoring and then broke every one of the
rules that they wrote for them, and people wonder why
I'm going And you know, I would like to think
that this administration is going to be different. And it's
early days, Steve, and you're going, all right, so far,
but I'll come back. Let's come back in three years

(07:34):
and see how that's right.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
But Katie, look we have put those in place now,
and look, we are committed to accountability and transparency.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
Do you get that?

Speaker 1 (07:44):
Got that?

Speaker 2 (07:46):
You just got to go back to twenty sixteen and
the biggest issue that has hounded labor for the last
eight years was that document restoring integrity and government and
that had a that was the bible for the labor government,
and there wasn't too much that was followed in that document.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
I mean, did it change the outcome of an election?

Speaker 3 (08:05):
Though was going to I didn't know what changed the
outcome of the election was the law and order in
the economy?

Speaker 1 (08:10):
I mean you mean back in twenty twenty with this
report or no.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Sorry, I thought you were talking about the twenty twenty
four election. Did it change? Look? I don't know. Maybe
had some probably not? Were those seats? Were those Bush
seats close? I can't remember. Oh yeah, you won by
five o you won, if you'd lost, if you'd lost,

(08:34):
and if Bill had lost because his was close, as
wasn't it then then maybe? But the CLP still won
those seats. But I think, you know what what is
interesting to me in this report, And there's a line
from one of the staffers who was interviewed from the

(08:55):
IKAK right who said that they were told by the
senior staff you know you expect like this is how
it goes. You're expected to door knock, You're expected to
know this party political stuff. Oh but make sure you
do it on your own time. Quote unquote. Now, as
this staffer has said to the IKAK, that's just an
ass covering exercise, because you're not expected to do that
at all. I think the expectation is that you do

(09:18):
do it all the time in government time, Like you know,
three weeks out from an election, your expectation is you're
doing everything to get your party, your minister elected, re elected.
And so I don't know how you fix that.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Well, I don't know, but one thing that I that
I am very sure of is people have had a
gutful of it. They expect politicians to be open, They
expect you to be honest, to use the words that
we hear from pollies all the time, and they don't
want that tax payer money to be wasted on trying
to get them re elected. I know that. Obviously this
week we have seen the Lobbying Register also introduced into Parliament.

(09:57):
It's going to see the publishing as understanded of ministers. Well, sorry,
Labor wants the register to be strengthened by the publishing
of minister's diaries quarterly. What we know is that this
sort of I guess you've got to make sure that
you know that you are noting who you're meeting with
and if they are a lobbyist, like, I don't know.

(10:19):
To me, I kind of read through it and I
was like, well, hang on a sect. The unions aren't
included on there, the different you know, different sort of group.

Speaker 4 (10:26):
Bodies included in the exchange, Katie, there's no detail into
what that criteria is and what sets out. I mean,
we asked some questions this week of the Chief Minister
li if Nokia around where's the detail and the plan
around that lobbyist register because it came out of press
release I think on the Monday, no detail, who administers it,
who is going to keep an eye on it, how

(10:46):
it's going to be updated, and the website's not even
up and running yet. Apparently you can apply for a
paper application at the moment. So I just thought that
was a bit strange to say, oh, we've ticked off
an election commitment, but there's no detail and if you
want to apply as a lobbyist here, come get a
piece of.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Paper in.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
Detail that Katie. The detail is there.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
The fact is that we have introduced the lobbyist register.
I actually went on there this morning. There's already two
people to two people or organizations registered a very close
look at that. So it's very important that those parties
do register as a lobbyist. Look, we do meet with
the various people every day of the week, and the

(11:26):
leader of the opposition would know that that there's various people.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
That come through the question like, can somebody with you
the list?

Speaker 5 (11:34):
That's what we don't understand, Katie.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Is the local sporting group a lobbyist? Are they a
lobbyist by are they a lobbyist by coming in to
talk to and.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Sharing Sometimes it depends on what they're asking for too,
does it.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
That's a really good.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
Question, because everyone effectively is a lobbyist, right, if it's
the local club he wants new change rooms, or it's
some bloke working for the tobacco industry he wants a
change to tax law. That there's still people who are
trying to lobby the government to get something out of them.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
Right. What we want to do is capture those lobbyists
that are there for a specific purpose to try and
influence policy, to try and influence change. Yes, we do
have people coming through the door that might need some
assistance to help run a sporting club or a not
for profit organization because they come in and share information
with us. We've got to do and I suppose make

(12:25):
decisions around what's the best way to use money, what's
the best way to support those not for profit groups.
But when it comes to those lobbyists, they're the ones
that need to be registered. They're the ones that we
need to be made public so that the public is
aware of who they are and what they're doing.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
So we're going to have every lobbyist joining a sporting
club saying that now I'm agin to talk about a grandstand.
Then at the end, asking a few questions about their
other interests.

Speaker 4 (12:49):
Publishing the ministry or diaries would be helpful because then
you could see any connection if a decisions been made
about an injection of money or support or resources for
a sporting group as an example, what we talking about now,
then you would see that correlation, that link. Oh, well,
they met in January of twenty twenty five and then
they got their money at the budget in May. You know,

(13:09):
like so you would see a bit of a record.
But that would provide that ability to be open around
who's met who has then received a benefit from that meeting.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Now that happens in other states, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
We're not reinventing the wheel when we're suggesting that, Katie,
we can take the best bits of other jurisdictions and
put it together to make sure it suits the Northern territory.
But we don't get that at the moment with what
the Colps released just this week unfortunately, Katie.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
Is that just going back to that Restoring Integrity and
Government document that Labour put out in twenty sixteen, You've
only got to go to that and look at the
discussion around lobbyists back then, and that was interesting. In
Parliament this week I heard one of the Labor members
say that, well, if we were in government this time,
we would introduce a lobbyist register. Well, they had eight
years to introduce it.

Speaker 5 (13:54):
We actually admitted to it in the previous election.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
There was a commitment back in twenty sixteen. There was
discussion about it. The fact is that Labor never introduced it.
They had an opportunity to do it. What we've done
is got on with the job. We've introduced the lobbyist registers.
Those third party lobbyists are on the register. People can
see who they are and understand some of the work
that's going on.

Speaker 5 (14:14):
And Steve why do a half half job.

Speaker 4 (14:16):
If this is a chance to make sure that what
we have in the territory can be robust and that
territories can have faith in us, regardless of who's in government,
why not just make that at the starting point and
put all that detail in, get the best bits from
other jurisdictions and make sure that we can all just
move on.

Speaker 5 (14:31):
Why not just start it or now, why just do
a half hast study is.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
That we've looked at what's happening in other jurisdictions. We've
put the third party lobbyist register. There's something that labor
never did over eight years. We're moving ahead with openness
and transparency.

Speaker 5 (14:44):
I hope none of the paper applications get lost to
the mail. Katie, Well, the.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Website's up and going, and as I said, there's already
two lobbyists on there already, so watch this space. I'm
sure that'll increase. We're being open and transparent about who
we're engaging with.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Did you guys just have problems with the Post? Selena?

Speaker 5 (15:01):
I think better that. I love the Australia Post.

Speaker 4 (15:03):
But if a lobbyist says that they're put in their
application and it's not received, then what's going to happen
then that mega a whole other cannib worms game for everybody.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
We will take a very quick break. You're listening to
Mix one O four nine's three p sixty It is
the week that was. Well, you are listening to the
week that was if you've just joined us in the
studio with us today. We've got the Opposition leader Selena Rubo,
We've got Matt Cunningham from Sky News, and we've got
Steve Edgington, who is indeed the Minister for Health and
also Alcohol Policy. Now we saw this week some correction

(15:33):
staff converge on Parliament House quite concerned about the legislative
amendments that did pass through Parliament overnight into the Correctional
Services Act to give the Corrections Commissioner the power to
appoint special Corrections Officers and special Probation and Parole officers.
The amendments are being made in an effort to support
the core corrections workforce, as I've said sort of numerous

(15:56):
times throughout the week. Unfortunately those corrections staff do not
see real happy about it, and they've then been at
Parliament House throughout the week to try and have their
voices heard we've also heard though throughout the week. What
it's actually means is that different programs, including and this
is one that's upset quite a few people that listen
to the show, a mowing service that's actually provided to

(16:17):
territory scene is by low security prisoners. It's had to
be canned indefinitely as a result of the massive prisoner numbers.
So there's so many different ways that we're seeing the
influx of prisoners too, our correctional facilities sort of having
an impact on infrastructure, obviously on staffing. We also know
though now some of those programs are not able to happen.

(16:39):
There is no doubt that by and large what we
hear here at work every day is people are very
glad that those that are breaking the law, particularly in
quite serious crimes, that they are not on the streets
and that they are behind the wire if they're breaking
the law. But the impact, I guess on corrections has

(17:00):
been quite astronomical.

Speaker 4 (17:02):
Yeah, Katie, we know that the corrections officers have been
extremely distressed this week, in particular by not having been
consulted about that urgent legislation that was brought in by
the Seal pic govenort.

Speaker 5 (17:13):
It was passed.

Speaker 4 (17:14):
Just yesterday when we were in Parliament House by the
Colp they were calling to.

Speaker 5 (17:19):
Meet with the Corrections Minister Jared.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
Maylee, to sit down with him, to talk to him
about what affects them, what ideas that they have, what
concerns that they have. And Jared Maylee was gutless. He
absolutely refused to meet with them face to face.

Speaker 5 (17:32):
Katie.

Speaker 4 (17:33):
All they wanted to do was to meet with their minister,
who was there to advocate for them and support them
and the frustration. So they came to Parliament House on Tuesday,
Katie to be heard, to be seen, and Jared Maylee
sat in the chamber and did not look up at
them once when they were in the gallery, and I
thought that was to me a big turning point in

(17:53):
my lack of respect now for him because of that
one moment.

Speaker 5 (17:56):
You know, normally, if you're a minister, you.

Speaker 4 (17:58):
Would go out, you would talk of the people that
you represent in that department, those public servants like our
corrections officers, who often people don't see. So they thought
this was so important that they needed to go to
Parliament to make their point, to meet with their minister
and tell the Government that they were unhappy with this
legislation because they had heard of it all secondhand and
without any consultation. So I saw all of that unfold

(18:23):
this week, Katie. We spoke about the legislation yesterday. We
had some very short time frames to be able to
actually look at that legislation and the impact. We asked
the questions that we needed in opposition. It did still
pass yesterday and it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
Now, Katie.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
Look, I think you know, the reality is that the
minister has met with the union. I think at least twice.
You know, if you only go back to the eleventh
of November, it was clear that the minister met with
the head of the union. There was discussion there about
the shortage of staff.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Well, I think the Commissioner tried to meet with the union.
It lasted about eight minutes. Now. Erin Early had said
to me on the show that you know that they
weren't getting that, they weren't happy with what was going.

Speaker 5 (19:08):
On, But people want to meet with this issue. Macers.
That's the minister, Katie.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
I think this issue is.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
About not being happy, but it's about sitting down and
having that conversation. So there were attempts made by the
Commissioner to sit down with the union. Certainly, the Minister
has met with the Erina early back on the eleventh
of November, and it's interesting to see that that conversation
focused around the shortage of correctional offices. Now, finding a
solution to improve the working conditions for staff and to

(19:38):
improve the workforce and the level of workforce should give
them some comfort that we are working towards finding a
solution to the shortage of staff. Now we've already spoken
about that the mowing services are being lost. Now this
really gets down to a shortage of staff. We spoke
about the prison industries yesterday and the work programs that
are inside prisons. Katie, they have an operator either because

(20:01):
of the shortage of staff, that hasn't been operating for
a long long time. And now if we want to
rehabilitate prisoners both inside and out the prison, look that
the Barkley work camp is a good model. But what
we're seeing in the larger prisons in Allison Darwin is
that that opportunity to build skills amongst prisoners has been
lost because of Labour's failure to recruit sufficient staff and

(20:24):
build the infrastructure that's needed. This escalating number of prisoners
hasn't happened overnight. It's been a problem for the last
eight years. We've seen the escalating crime rates where DV
for example, eighty two percent up right across the Northern territory.
The picture has been there for eight years, but Labour
failed to invest in the workforce and they fail to
invest in the infrastructure that's needed to help rehabilitate our

(20:47):
Katie government.

Speaker 5 (20:48):
One oh one.

Speaker 4 (20:49):
If you're making decisions about people, and particularly about people
in a department public servants, the one oh one would
be to meet with those public servants, those groups you
were making direct decision and impact because that's their professional career.
That is what they're concerned about, what our corrections officers
are concerned about. So one oh one, and it was

(21:09):
missed and that's really what's caused a lot of the
frustration and anger.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
O Cody one hundred and sixty eight thousand hours each year.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Its eleven million dollars is what the minister had told
me on the show yesterday, eleven million dollars in overtime.
So I'd sort of ask how much is it going
to cost now to privatize those different areas i e.
The transportation and the escorting of prisoners then to court,
to hospital, that kind of thing. He said, well, that's
commercial in confidence. You know, they've obviously got to go

(21:38):
through the contract, the procurement process or whatever. But it
is a heck of a lot of money. Eleven million
bucks in overtime, I mean.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
But it's not just the money, Cody, it's the pressure
that the staff are under the hours that they're working.
This is the critical part. It is big money. But
when you've got staff working double shifts, coming in after
a seven hour break, eight hour break, that's the sort
of thing that we need to take very a very
close look at. What we want to do is ensure

(22:08):
that the working conditions for staff are as good as
they That's why.

Speaker 5 (22:11):
The Minister should meet with those staff and hear from
them directly.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
Steve, this is an issue that does go back quite
a while, and I've seen previous reports that has that
overtime bill for escorts and whatever else like at almost
double the number you're talking about. I've also seen reports
from probably three or four years ago at that time
saying that corrections were seventy staff short, right seventy officers
short correctional officers. And I know from a conversation I

(22:37):
had with the former Commissioner Scott McNair not long before
he died, that he went to the department and he said,
we're seventy officers short. We need seventy more correctional officers,
and they said, bad luck, champ Wow. And so now
we find ourselves in a situation where you know, we're

(22:58):
clearly more than seventy officers short, and they're trying to,
you know, obviously, do all sorts of different things to
try and kill this, guess is.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
The issue, Cody, And as Matt highlights, this has been
going on for a long time. Labor failed to address
the staff shortages. We've come up with a solution. We've
listened to the correction of officers, We've listened to the
union about the staffing shortages. Here we are addressing the
problem giving the commissioner the ability to recruit into those positions.

(23:26):
He needs to be satisfied that anyone coming into those
positions has the skills and qualifications necessary to perform well
in the functions of that position.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
So I guess one of the other concerns that has
been raised, is people are worried that we're going to
wind up with you know, essentially private security doing some
of these roles and escorting what could be quite dangerous prisoners.
But nonetheless, you know, there is I guess there's concerns
around that. We've also got a situation, you know, where
the government is trying to juggle their budget with an

(23:56):
enormous level of debt. But yesterday they still came out
and said, or actually, this morning, I believe this official
announcement's going to be made that the public sector enterprise
bargaining policy has locked in a competitive wage growth of
three percent for our public servants. Joe Hersey is well,
she's issued a statement saying that there's not going to

(24:17):
be a wage freeze for the public sector workers. They'll
receive a three percent annual pay increase already factored into
the territory budget. Any increase above three percent must be
funded by real, bankable productivity improvements and work practice reforms.
Existing enterprise agreements remain in place, ensuring salaries and entitlements

(24:37):
are protected and no back pay sign on bonuses or
similar payments, ensuring a responsible approach to public finances. Look,
it's going to be an interesting year because I think
the police are due for you know, they're going through
their enterprise bargaining agreement. I know that they've raised concerns
about their retention bonus. So, like I say, the government's

(25:02):
got a real juggle on their hands here because at
this point in time, we know that we are you know,
there's being in debt and then there's being in the
kind of debt that we're currently in where we really
like you're going to struggle to negotiate some of these
different different agreements, I would suspect when you don't have

(25:22):
a lot of money up your sleep, Cadie.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
The fact is we have negotiated with the public Service
that three percent increase. It's a very balanced outcome when
you look at that, because at the end of the day,
it's what we have seen over the years is the
cost of living. We've seen CPI increases, We've seen a
whole range of increases. But what we have done is

(25:44):
locked in that three percent increase and that's balanced against
the cost of living pressures that we have seen over
the years. But what we will see in the future,
but the reality is that we've locked in that agreement
with the public servants. We value the public servants and
it's important that we retain our public servants in the
public service. We want to get the best possible outcomes
of Territorians, and without a strong public sector, we're going

(26:07):
to struggle to do that. So when we talk about
reducing crime, rebuilding the economy and restoring our lifestyle, we're
working with the public sector that we have and we're
moving on and we'll be working with the police around
some of those issues. Around the retention bonus as well.

Speaker 4 (26:22):
And Katie, I know you mentioned the police retention bonuses.
This is a promise that Leaf and Occhio made ten
days out from the election last year, on the fourteenth
of August twenty twenty four, to police that they would
get a very clear and mandated retention bonus for ten
years of service, for fifteen years of service, for twenty

(26:42):
years of service, for twenty five years of service, and
for thirty years of service in the force. And we
know that this will mean a lot for our police force.
We asked the question to Leaf and Occhiro, who is
also the Police Minister, in question Time yesterday, why this
retention bonus hasn't been rolled out yet to the police.
It was supposed to be in the first twelve months,
would the honoring of those five tiers still be valid.

(27:06):
That was the election commitment that Lea made and her
team made, and now we're hearing from Lea.

Speaker 5 (27:12):
We heard it yesterday in question time.

Speaker 4 (27:14):
It was more of a proposal and actually there'll be
some more information later. It was a very clear election
promise Katie, to the police, to the hardworking police that
Leah made and now we're hearing secondhand Katie just today
that we hear that the Colp government is asking the
police to pay for their own retention bonus, to pay

(27:34):
for their political commitment made in August last year.

Speaker 5 (27:38):
And I don't think.

Speaker 4 (27:38):
That this is a true commitment and being honest with
Territorians when it comes to supporting our hard working police.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
I think it's a very strong commitment, Katie. And look,
I have a background in policing and as the leader
of the opposition, Opposition just said, we said that we
were delivered in the first twelve months. We're six months
into government. So look, what I would say is that
the Chief Minister has been very clear about this attention bonus.
She has had conversations with the Commissioner. We will be
working with the Police Association to work out how best

(28:07):
to deliver that retention bonus. There's still negotiations to go on.
We want to make sure that we get this right.
You can't say that we're being unclear about this. We're
six minutes delivered, We're six months into government. We said
we would deliver this within twelve months. We're getting on
with the job of working with the Commissioner and the
Police Association to ensure that we have proper processes and

(28:30):
proper bonuses in place to retain and attract people here
to the Northern Territory. What you promised, Steve, and it
was in black and white before the election, was ten
thousand dollars for ten year service, fifteen for fifteen, and
then twenty thousand dollars for twenty, twenty, five, thirty and
every five years beyond.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
So is that what you're going to deliver.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
At the moment, that's what we've committed to. We're having
those conversations with the Commissioner. We're having those conversations. That's
what you've committed.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
If that's what you've committed to, conversation.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
The conversation is how best to fund that and that
they're the issues need to be.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
So you work out you actually can't afford that, is
that what's going and worked.

Speaker 5 (29:03):
Out anything can police to pay.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
What we're looking at is how much of that can
come within the police budget, how much of that needs
to come from additional funding.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
So you are still you are still committed routeen fifteen.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
We are committed to the ten fifteen twenty, the one
that you promised. That's right ten to fifteen twenty unless
the Association or the Police Commissioner tells us otherwise. That's
what we've committed to. That's what we're working to deliver.

Speaker 4 (29:26):
O Katie, I know the NTPA is very concerned that
the proposal apparently gone from an election commitment to proposal
now from leaf Nokia is the Police Minister has now
dropped to five thousand dollars for those in points.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
So that's understand is that it's what's now being proposed
is twenty thousand dollars for ten year service. You probably
know this too will be twenty five for fifteen and
then it drops down to five for twenty five for
twenty twenty five thirty.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
The big thing is here is when you make a
commitment during an election campaign and you then if you're
not going to actually, if you're not going to deliver
on that, that's when people stop believing what you say,
and that's I think a real risk that any government runs.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Look, we've made a commitment to deliver that retention bonus
for police. We can get into discussion about a whole
range of election commitments. What we do know is that
Labour failed to deliver a number of election commitments over the.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
Eighth We said that.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Deliver this I will be twelve months and that's.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
What will and I hope so because just because they
didn't do something doesn't mean you guys should do the same,
because that's exactly the kind of thing that territories is that.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
We are delivering this election commitment. That's a bit rich
for Labor to question whether we are delivering.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
Don't worry about labor. About Labor, let us let us
question it because what you've promised is really clear.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
In those conversations.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
What you're going to do in.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Those conversations are happening with the Commissioner and the Police
Association as we speak. So we can ensure that that
retention bonus retains our were hard working police officers, and
it gives us the hate.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
To gang up on you, Steve. But sometimes Matt and
I do this yes or no question.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
Will will police officers who've done twenty year service, Will
they get a twenty thousand dollars attention? They will? Yes? Okay, good,
We've got that on the record, on the record.

Speaker 5 (31:17):
We're happy. I tell you what happened.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
I felt like we're back asking Joel about whether he
supported gas.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
You wouldn't have got a yes to that that question.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
We will take a very quick break. You are listening
to Mix one oh four point nine three sixty. It
is the week that was. You are listening to the
week that was. There is really so much to discuss
this morning, and I do just want to take you
all to the beginning of the week, where we know
a yet another domestic violence death, A forty one year

(31:48):
old killed in Alice Springs on Sunday morning. We now
know a thirty nine year old alleged defender was obviously
arrested by the police on Sunday morning. That person's been
charged with murder of the death of his partner and
Alice Springs. Now we know that that person has understand
it was due to front court, may have already fronted court.

(32:09):
But there's been a lot of discussion then this week
about domestic violence funding and also some changes when it
comes to police dealing with domestic violence. So new legislation
introduced aimed at giving Northern Territory police I think it
passed actually more powers to arrest those who breach parole
and to enforce compliance of domestic violence orders. Under the

(32:29):
proposed laws, police are going to be able to enter
our premises to arrest someone in breach of parole. They'll
also be able to conduct alcohol and drug testing on
anyone's subject to a devo on a private property now
that includes people's yards and driveways, but officers won't be
able to enter someone's home without consent. Now, there is
no doubt that the way in which we're doing things
when it comes to domestic violence needs to change. I mean,

(32:53):
on Monday this week, we're talking nationally about closing the
gap in so many different ways. Yet on that same morning,
you know I was hearing discussions on a national stage
and not on Sky News. Mate. I know that you
were definitely reporting on this horrendous, tragic incident, but I
was hearing some national discussions, and there was no mention

(33:14):
of the fact that a woman had been killed in
a domestic violence incident twenty four hours before, you know,
we want to talk about closing a gap.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
It's actually bizarre, Katie, and I find it. I just
find sometimes I think we live in a parallel universe
to Canberra, Like as we're sitting here and we know
what's been happening, and we witness what's happening, and then
you see what happens on a day like that, and
the conversation just seems so far removed from what I'm
having it. And I was actually doing like I was

(33:45):
covering closing the gap on Monday, but I was also
covering the Chief Minister's speech and a press conference, and
in a speech she said there'd been an eighty two
percent increase in DV in the Northern Territory over the
past eight years, and of course there'd been that woman's
horrific death on Sunday, and I mentioned that statistic on
air on Monday, and like people at Sky News were

(34:06):
just like, oh my, are you serious, like and then
they you know, they rightly made a very big deal
of that. But it does seem that there is just
this this just two different worlds. It's almost that we
live in. And I think the other thing that's interesting
to look at with close the gap. I mean, we
keep talking about closing the gap between Indigenous and non Indigenous,
but I think there's a widening gap. And some people

(34:29):
have made this point this week. There's a widening gap
between Indigenous people who live in Melbourne and Sydney and
Brisbane who are doing actually quite well, like an Indigenous
middle class. And when they put out the closing the
gap numbers, you know, they're like, oh, we're improving in
all these areas. You know, year twelve attainment. Look at this.
So I looked at year twelve entertainment yesterday. So year

(34:51):
twelve attainment sixty eight point one percent nationally, not quite
on track for closing the gap, but it's improving, right,
But it's seventy five percent in Queen Island, and it's
sixty eight percent in New South Wales, and it's seventy
two percent in Victoria, and in the Northern Territory it's
forty point two percent. Yeah right, you know, so all
of this, you know, even the gains that we're making

(35:12):
when it comes to closing the gap, are not being
made here in the Northern Territory. In the Northern Territory,
in many instances, we're going backwards.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
It's you know, it's it's I don't know how to like,
I sort of don't know how to articulate myself well
with this because you know, I felt really frustrated again
on Monday morning when we're talking about closing the gap,
and in addition to the tragic death of a forty
one year old woman, we also had a situation where

(35:40):
a child under the age of five years old had
been allegedly raped in a remote community at the end
of last week. Now, I know that things like this
can happen right around the nation. I get that, and
I get that you know, it can happen no matter
where you come from. But I think, for me, every

(36:00):
single week you're reporting on such horrific incidents, you know,
horrific incidents impacting the most vulnerable in our community. You know,
when I think of the most vulnerable, a child under
the age of five, and something like this happening, it
doesn't only make my blood boil, it actually makes me

(36:22):
want to cry. Like I think, how on earth do
we live in a place where things like this can happen,
and then you know, we know today this nineteen year
old accused of this absolutely horrific crime. According to a
report by Harry Brill in the NT News earlier in
the week, that defendant, who obviously can't be legally identified

(36:44):
at this stage, well, basically they were applying his defense
lawyer applying for bail. The man's lawyer noted that the
allegation was very serious, maintaining nothing in my submission is
aimed at diminishing that, and he understands the serious business
of the situation. He's gone from having no interaction with
the justice system at all to winding up in custody

(37:05):
for quite some time now. My understanding is today we
will find out whether whether he receives bail or not.
But to me, we are talking about a child allegedly
being raped. The fact that bail is even a discussion
at this point, I'm quite surprised and lost for words.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
Codie, Katie, we need to start doing things differently. Hearing
about the forty one year old woman being killed, a
child being raped, bail being considered for the offender. This
has been going on for far too long. This is
why we're committing record funding around thirty six million dollars

(37:45):
ongoing per year. What we need to do is do
something differently. We hear these stories. We've heard these stories
for years and years and years. What we need to
do is start doing things differently. We're focused now with
the Circuit Breaker programocused on early intervention and prevention. What
we need to be doing is targeting people at a
very young age and intervening in that person's life at

(38:08):
a very young age to try and keep that child,
that family on track and change the behavior of some
of the people that we're seeing at the moment involved
in these crimes. We have strengthened the bar laws and
looking at that particular case, you know that'll be a
matter for the court. I don't want to interfere in
the court process, but we have strengthened biol laws. We
are looking at doing things differently with that thirty six million.

(38:30):
We want to focus more on early intervention and prevention,
but support the services that we have here in the
Northern Territory.

Speaker 4 (38:37):
Yeah, Katie, it is horrific when we hear those stories
because it's not just removed and not connected to our community.
It affects all of us here in the NT because
of our small and tight knit population, So there's no
excuse for any of that type of action or behavior.
And of course, you know the horrific incident for the
territory woman who's died now in Alice Springs. That's the

(38:59):
second woman in the territory to die at the hands
of their partner this year and Katie, So there definitely
has to be a night at front. And I've spoken
many times on your show about this. I agree with
Steve about the investment of funding. We want to see
that continue to roll out. But I you know, I
know Matt's written lots of articles on this. If this
was happening in any other jurisdiction in the country, people
would be outraged. And have we become desensitized to hearing

(39:22):
these horrific stories that we need to maintain that key focus,
that highlight on making sure we continue to talk about
what's happening in our community, we continue to talk about
it being unacceptable, and we continue to talk about what
other ways that we can work together to fix these
horrific issues in our in the territory.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
They have to be like it can't we can't continue
on in this way, and things do need to be
done differently. I don't know exactly what the answers are,
but we cannot continue on like this.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
We'll take it, but certainly the attention around these issues.
We need to bring this to everybody's attention. And you
know Matt's here today, but I still go back to
February twenty eighteen when a two year old was assaulted intenately.
That was a front page story, our front page story,
and we're talking what nearly well seven years ago today.

(40:13):
As you've said, it barely features in the media about
what's going on. So to hear about this latest sexual
assault of a child, it's absolutely heartbreaking. The impact on
that child, the impact on the family. We need to
bring this to the spotlight. We need to address the
root causes of these issues. That's why we're committing thirty
six million dollars a year and hopefully, through early intervention

(40:36):
and prevention, we will make a different look. What I
want to make clear is this isn't going to change overnight,
but we're going to be doing our very best to
make sure it does.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
Just to point on your front page story, and I
know that you were at the forefront of the advocacy
back then in twenty eighteen. There's little doubt about it.
That became a front page story because we got I
remember sending the question to David Spears, who was while
the Prime Minister, Malcolm Tama was doing a press conference
and David Spears asked the Prime Minister at the time
a question about the rape of that two year old

(41:06):
girl in Tenant Creek and he basically blew him off
and said it was a matter for the Northern Territory
government and the NT News, to its credit, did a
front page story the next day that with the headline
simply does not care that basically. In regards to Malcolm
return terminals response to that incident, to his credit, he
eventually visited Tenant Creek and there was a real focus

(41:27):
on that for a short time. But as I say,
it was for a short time and you sort of
get these little you know, I think there's more focus,
particularly on the DV issue I reckon ten years ago,
there was nothing like there was actually nothing, you know,
it would just it would almost not get reported at all.
And there's been certainly more of a focus on reporting

(41:49):
these issues. But still to Selena's point, the two women
killed in Alice Springs in the last month in DV incidents.
If that happened in Dubbo, or if it happened in
lon Cessin, or if it happened in any other town
in this country of a similar size to Alice Springs, God,
it'll be it.

Speaker 4 (42:05):
As you have ray competitions, you'd have walks on Parliament,
you would have everybody banning together to say enough's enough,
we do not accept this.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Look, we're going to take a really quick break. You
are listening to Mix one oh four nine's three sixty.
It is the week that was Well, I tell you what,
it has been a very busy hour this morning. Now
before I let you guys go, if you've just joined us,
well you've missed an hour of power. Really, there's a
lot going on in here, Selena.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
We've missed the commitment from the minister to the twenty
thousand dollars police retention. It is on the record.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Yeah, there's been a lot to cover off. But I
tell you what. Someone who's not receiving funding is the
Environment Center and the Arid Lands Group. They've both had
their funding scrapped. I know the government making this announcement
earlier in the week and doubling down on their commitment
to stamp out green lawfare as well. They're terminating the
taxpayer funded support for the Environment Center and the Arid

(42:59):
Lands Environment Center one hundred grand I think it is
per year for both of them, thoughts.

Speaker 4 (43:10):
Katie, I know that people don't want to see that
that term that's now just you know, in the last
week I've learned which is law fair?

Speaker 5 (43:18):
That green law fair?

Speaker 4 (43:19):
And you know, we saw a very high profile case
with the Barossa gas project and people don't want to
see that where they want to see development held up
for the wrong reasons. And what that case found was,
you know, the integrity issue around that. But what those
community groups and those organizations, especially when they're very focused

(43:40):
on key issues like the environment, those groups are there
as another layer of scrutiny for the government. So when
they're defunded and then they're removed, what are the other mechanisms.
That's what I've been asking this week. If you're defunding
a group and that core business is to look at
government regulation, policy, law, etc. Who else is then holding
accountab Because we've got job the labor opposition has a job.

(44:01):
That's our job is to hold the government to account.
But when it comes to those very detailed areas like
the environment, like some of our other key organizations that
focus on a particular area, topic, or piece of legislation
that government look at, who else is keeping the government
to account?

Speaker 5 (44:18):
And that's what we want to know.

Speaker 4 (44:19):
We want to know what are the mechanisms, what are
the areas that territories, what you're there for? Selena, Yeah,
I know that absolutely what I just said Matt, that's
my job. But you know, we're four people in opposition,
like where are the experts in the field, Where the
experts in the environment, Where are the experts in development?
Where are the experts in industry? Those are the other
areas and groups that also need to sign.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
The other questions. You know, the other question is so
like the government can't afford to be funding everybody, whether
you're talking about you know, different environmental groups or whether
you're talking about other organizations. If you can't run a
like if you don't have a sustainable business model, whether
it's again whether it's that kind of organization or another,
should government funding actually be what you're aligned upon?

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Well, certainly not.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
You know.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Look, as we said before that there are other mechanisms
to appeal these Look, there's been around about what eighteen
merits reviews over the since twenty twenty, and I think
just there might be one or two, but the majority
of those decisions have always been upheld. So this merits
review is really delaying progress here in the Northern Territory.

(45:27):
And the other mechanism that everybody doesn't talk about is
that judicial review still exists. So if a proponent out
there has a clear issue with that decision, if there
are legal issues, if the decision is if there's a
legal error in that decision, judicial review is available for
those groups to make that appeal through.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
The courts for that judicial process, Like, that's the whole process.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
If someone's going to the center said they didn't need
the money.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
I think they said they'll continue.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
They didn't want I didn't want.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
They said that they didn't want the money, and that's fine.
But the reality is what we've done is we are
working towards the scrapping the third party merits review. Judicial
review will always be there, and that's the avenue that
these different.

Speaker 4 (46:17):
Parts have money to then go through a procedure that's
basically what Steve saying.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
I guess, you know, the thing is, across the Northern
Territory over recent years we have seen projects, major projects
held up for incredibly long periods of time.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
I mean, you know, I think that Santosporosa case was
incredibly damaging for environmentalists. It was the environment Defender's office,
not not the E. C and T or Aaron Lands
that were involved, but I think it was incredibly damaging.
That judgment from Justice Charles Worth was incredibly damaging for
those environmental groups more generally, because I think the public,

(46:53):
your average Joe in the public got to see a
different side of that argument and thought, you know, these
people have really taking the you know what. And I
think that's where you've seen a sort of shift in
public centiment. And I think one hundred thousand dollars is insignificant.
I think it's the government sending a signal and they
would argue, I guess that this is what they were

(47:14):
voted into.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Of course, the other side of it, every time there
is a merits review, you know, there's taxpayers money at
stick as well. We need to engage lawyers, we need
to get that process moving as well. It's actually costing taxpayers,
it's costing the economy, it's costing the proponents of those
big projects, and the Santos one is a classic example.
But in my electric for example, the Fortune Agri Singleton

(47:39):
project that's been on the backburn and now for well
over four years waiting for a decision about their water license.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Unfortunately we've run out of time. In fact, we've gone
over time. As always, never a shortage of things to
talk about in here. Oppositionally to Selena Rubo, thanks so
much for your time today.

Speaker 5 (47:55):
Thanks for having Katie and your listeners.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Thank you. Matt Cunningham from Sky News, thank you for
your time.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
No worries. And if any of those police officers who
are now getting a twenty thousand dollars retention bonus, I
want to buy you and I be here, wilf we
we'll beware at the cable later on this afternoon.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Steve Beachington, the Minister for Health and also alcohol Policy,
thank you so much for your time.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Thanks Katie, and it's great to be here. And look,
I'm backing all of those police officers out there. I've
served in the police force. I'm backing all the frontline
correctional officers as well. We're there to support all of
our frontline workers and it's great to be on the show.
And good morning to all the listeners in Daar.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Thank you.