Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We know the changes to the Correctional Services Legislative Amendment
Bill of twenty five past in Parliament last week, the
Government saying it's delivering what they've described as critical workforce
reforms to support correction staff and ease workforce pressures. Now
the Commissioner of Corrections now has the authority to appoint
special officers, enabling the engagement of experienced interstate correctional officers
(00:25):
and qualified external correctional service providers. The Corrections Commissioner, Matthew
Valley joins me in the studio. Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Good morning again, Katie, Commissioner.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Thanks so much for your time. Now, these legislative changes
obviously mean that you've got the ability to appoint special officers,
enabling the engagement of experienced inter state correctional offices and
qualified external correctional service providers. What are your plans now
when it comes to surging the workforce?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yeah, Katie, So those powers passed through Parliament late last week,
and similar powers exist in others dates and of course
you saw earlier this year police do a similar thing
down in ol Of Springs with South Australia Police. So
it gives me greater flexibility to engage qualified and trained
specialist officers for me to state or private contractors. And
(01:14):
I know there's been some debate about what exactly that means,
and I'm happy to talk about that. But what it
means is ultimately we can go out to the rest
of the country and ask for help, and that's exactly
what we're doing right now. I've been in contact with
some of my interstate counterparts over the weekend to see
what capacity they may have, and we'll be able to
(01:34):
work through that in the days ahead. But of course
we're also approaching a number of those specialists into state providers,
the commercial contractors that have this experience in a state.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So who have you been in contact with into state?
Which different correctional service commissioners and how many officers are
you hoping to bring in.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Well, the answer to that question is all of them.
So I have a communication group with all of our
interstate corrections commissioners and we trade notes on a lot
of stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So I've been speaking with them over the weekend.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Obviously, I don't want to prejudice those negotiations and discussions,
and of course I make the point that you know, every.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Jurisdiction has its own pressures as well.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
So we have a pretty good relationship with our interstate colleagues,
and I'm sure if they can help us reasonably, they will.
But what the difference is here, Katie, with this new
law is I could borrow, you know, one, five, ten, fifteen,
twenty officers from another jurisdiction and appoint them subject to
them being loaned.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
And that's quite different.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Previous to these powers, I would have had to have
those offices be employed by the Northern Territory, which meant
that their home jurisdiction would have had to put them
on leave without pay or resign their position to come
and take up a temp contract.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So this makes it a whole lot easier.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
So right now I'm in those kind of discussions with
my colleagues, and then of course we're out to market
with some direct approaches to a series of those commercial providers.
Obviously there's a procurement process we're following, and we've identified
a series of those specialist contractors who have those expertise
(03:14):
and those capabilities elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
All right, first off, any idea how many officers you
may be able to get from into state or what
are you in an ideal world? How many would you.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Bring in right now, I'd take as many as I
could get, Katie, to be honest with us, hundred and fifty. Well,
I said the other week, I want to recruit another
one hundred correctional officers this year, and we're opening Berramer
Correctional Center, and you know I have one hundred and
sixty four prisoners in there now, We're backed up in watchhouses,
and of course we have new modular blocks coming online
(03:48):
in our springs now. I've also been quite clear that
it's not my intention to put those private contract specialist
firms inside the wire. So if I could borrow supplementary
officers from another jurisdiction, another state jurisdiction, that might be
a surge capacity into our prisons whilst we would continue
to recruit. But again the numbers would depend on negotiations.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, right, And so how quickly are you hoping that
you're going to be able to do that?
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Well, as quickly as possible, And I know that sounds
a bit vague, but again it's subject to two things.
One is another state being able to work through their
machinations to support us if we're successful in those negotiations.
And the second part is the commercial procurement process for
those escort providers. We hope to have the first round
(04:37):
of proposals from those commercial providers to us this week,
so we've moved very fast on that, and then we'll
go into a very rapid I guess panel assessment process
of those tenders, and if we are able to select
a suitable provider or providers, then we would enter into
a rapid commercial contract process. Now again, my legal friends
(05:01):
and we've got some commercial lawyers and other things involved
tell us that that will take a week or two.
So I expect I'd be able to have a contract
in place in a few weeks time, and those deployments
from a commercial provider could flow.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Next month, so as early as March. Absolutely, absolutely, it
does sound as though things are all going to move
pretty quickly. I mean, how how quickly do you need
them to move? In terms of the number of prisoners
you've got at the moment, we know those numbers continue
to rise.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Yeah, they rise every day, Katie, And to be honest
with you, that's all we're doing at the moment is
managing that operational capacity. My team and I have been
working on that all weekend. We are making sure that
every single movement across our system, and you can imagine
there's a lot when you move twenty seven hundred people around.
Every time there's a discharge from the main prison, we'll
take a new prisoner in. We're moving people out to
(05:53):
our work camps as people are ending their sentences. But
this morning, you know, there's twenty seven hundred and seventeen
in our cust city, and I know that there's others
backed up in watchhouses.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
And just to give you an example.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Katie, because of those pressures, you know, I reopened our
operational footprint at Peter McCaulay Center on the weekend. Had
to do it because we were out of beds on Friday.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Okay, so how many how many prisoners have you got
in the Peter McCauley Center.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
At the moment, It was about a dozen there this morning,
and they were short notice placements on Friday evening. My
team worked remarkably well to make that happen. But of course,
what that does, Katie, is that just another site that
we're now staffing, and it's not a long term solution
for us.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So in terms of you know, we've spoken a lot
about those prisoner numbers. I know earlier in the year,
it was an additional four hundred prisoners, is what we've seen.
How many are we up now, is it like more
like five hundred?
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I guess it, Yeah, absolutely, I guess it depends on
where you draw the line. But I think we're about
twenty two hundred when the government came to power back
in August September, and certainly, as I said, when.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I wrote the master plan, and you know, we.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Were projecting a three thousand bed capacity, so we're more
than fifty percent towards that gap now and that's why
we're moving so fast and accelerating, and the government has
asked me to accelerate those works. And even this week, Katie,
we're putting the finishing touches on some demoundable buildings that
we've installed into Beerrima and we've craned them.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Over the fence.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
They're a low security dormitory style accommodation and we're installing
some shower blocks and ablutions there and that'll give us
an extra hundred or so capacity. Fences and fire and
other electrical security systems to be installed this week, and
then I anticipate having the ninety six bed modular facility
operational next week.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
All right, now, all of this is needed, There's no
other way to put it. I mean, those prisoner numbers
continue to grow. You are trying to juggle all of
those prisoners. In the meantime. I mean we've still got
correction stuff saying they're not had about these changes. Have
you had any ability to communicate further to them through
the union or not through the union? Well?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
The first thing I'd say is we've been keeping our
staff informed and I've had senior leaders out and myself
out and around the workplaces over the last you know,
late last week and the weekend. We're answering questions as
we walk and talk. We also have been doing our
all staff messaging and we've got some internal communications going
(08:31):
in relation to that. And the next stage of that process, Katie,
is for implementation phase of these changes. We're going to
be establishing a strategic working group including union representatives. So
I'll be writing to unions and I've flagged that last
week to invite them to participate. But at the moment,
things are tough, and you know, we are still working
(08:52):
through some of those union concerns. The vote of no
confidence obviously is still out and about.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Well, I guess that's their choice.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
What I can say to my staff is, and I've
always said this, is, you know, I'm really proud of
what we have continued to deliver for Corrections and Territorians.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
For weeks and months now. It's not easy, Katie.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
You know, people are working around the clock, they're working
over time, they're stretched, they're tired, and we all are.
But we also understand what the community expects of us,
and that is to deliver. So I guess I have
to focus on that and remind people that, you know,
we do this job for a reason and I'm trying
to do the best with what we have. What I'm
asking my people to do is stick with us and
(09:36):
focus on that vision.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I mean, when you look at what you're trying to do,
when you look at the things that you're trying to juggle,
when you look at the way you're trying to support
your staff and then stuff some stuff. Not happy about that,
and then you've got the union coming out saying you
know that they want to vote of no confidence in you.
Is that like, is that frustrating and upsetting or do
(09:57):
you just keep forging ahead? And keep on are well, I'd.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Be lying to you if I said that it didn't,
you know, frustrate me and upset me.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Of course, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
I lead my people as best I can with the
energy and passion that I try and get.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Up with every day. But at the end of the day,
I expect.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
You know, there'll always be those in unions and the
workplace that disagree with some of my decisions.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I respect that.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I respect their right to protest about that. What I
have to remain focused on is whether I think in
my gut that I'm making the right decisions. And when
I think that, I think, well, I have to focus
on my instincts and my values and get us through
this problem so that we can stabilize the correction system
and bring you know that focus on not only community safety, Katie,
(10:43):
but rehabilitation.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Well, that's one of the other things I do want
to ask you about, Commissioner. Last week, we had a
number of Territorians get in contact with us about the
low security prisoners that would usually mow lawns for senior
Territorians and help some of our senior territorians no longer
able to do that because you have got all your
staff back behind the wire. How quickly do you think
(11:04):
you're going to be able to get some of those
programs back up and running for those seniors it really
appreciate and rely on it. Well.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
The community service work parties, Katie. And we've got the
Mindaw and Analys springs. We also have them in the
work camps, and the work camps in Tenant and Datchelor
have been less affected, but here in Darwen and Analys
we've had to suspend those work parties. And you know
they do service so many pension as, They service community
groups and local councils. In Alice, they manage some of
the grounds keeping around the river.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
And so forth.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
I hope to get those back up and running as
best I can, as quickly as I can. But also
to Katie, there's our industries, facilities, our workshops, our employment
and also our rehabilitation clinical treatment programs. And on Friday
I spoke with a bunch of our clinicians who deliver
and these are psychologists and case workers who deliver treatment
(11:57):
programs for fenders in custody. Now, Katie, I think the
data shows me from one July through to now, we're
fifty percent down on the targeted rate of programs we'd
like to be able to deliver. Now, these are DV programs,
treatment programs for offenders that we should be delivering and
we can't because we're in lockdown.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Well that's pretty shocking in the sense that people do
expect when prisoners go into prison that they are going
to be doing some of those different programs, different rehabilitations
so that they come out better humans, not better criminals.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Absolutely, and that's part of our mission, and that's why
we employ the clinical specialists and the case workers and
the education professionals that we do. That's why we have
a partnership with Charles Darwen University and I met with
the vice chancellor on Friday about how we can expand that.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
But all of it, Katie relies.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
On a stable, well staffed, operational prison system that is unlocked.
And this weekend it hasn't been. It hasn't been unlocked.
You know. Saturday was one of our toughest days I
think in a long time, was entirely lockdown due to
short staffing, and we canceled family visits.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
That's where we're at and I want to I don't
want to sugarcoat that for people.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
And I don't mean to cause alarm and stress for
our staff, but the staff that are there working hard.
We have to then revert to focusing on medical meals
and basic human hygiene and those kind of things. And
these are some of the other impacts. You know, family visits,
if you can't see if you know a kid outside
wants to see Dad and can't, that has an impact
(13:30):
not just on the prisoner Katie and our operations and sentiment,
but the wider community as well.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I mean, that's pretty concerning that you're in a situation
on Saturday where so the whole prison had.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
To be locked down pretty much.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yep, Like, is that the first time you've had to
do that.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
No, it's not, but we don't. I mean, it's highly unusual.
I'll preface that by saying it's highly undesirable to lock
down an entire prison all day. We usually function on
rolling unlocks, which means we'll stage lockdowns and unlocks throughout
the day across different blocks and sectors in an effort
to get prisoners out to do some stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
But Saturday was really tough.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
We were I think, if I'm right, I'm going to
say about forty five staff short.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
On Saturday at Darwin Correctional Center.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Is that just purely due to the fact that we
need more staff or were there people calling in sick?
Speaker 3 (14:22):
What was the guy?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
All of the above?
Speaker 3 (14:24):
To be honest, we had a series of shortages based
on roster vacancies. We had a series of shortages based
on redirections, as I said to Peter McCaulay, watchhouse, a
few other operational activities. We're still running hospital escorts. I
think today, Katie, I've got three officers in sorry, three prisoners,
I should say in Darwin Hospital. I think another two
in our Springs Hospital. So there's three prisoners equals two
(14:48):
officers times twelve hours times.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Two shifts a day.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
So three twos of six times two is twelve officers
in every twenty four hour period at hospital.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
So I guess from your perspective, that really of reiterates
why there is this need for the surge workforce and
also to bring in the you know, the contractors.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
And that just underscores why we pass those amendments through
Parliament and work through with government to get those legislation
changes happened last week. I mean, I just don't accept
the comment from the unit that there is no staffing
crisis in Darwin.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
We've never said that there isn't.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
What I think they're referring to is the fact that
we've recruited more officers.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Into Darwin than ever before. And you know we have recruited.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
I guess we've had to because we're now staffing Darwin
City Watchhouse and Palmerston and so forth.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
But I guess you know, the proof is in the numbers.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
And forty five odd officers short on Saturday in a
prison lockdown is not the kind of system I think
Territorians expect us to operate well.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley, I always appreciate your time, appreciate
the fact that you take the time to come in
to speak to our listeners and no doubt well you
know correctional stuff and also prisoners sit listen to the show.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Thanks Katie, and thanks to all my staff who show
up every day doing the best they can.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Thank you, Thanks so much,
We know the changes to the Correctional Services Legislative Amendment
Bill of twenty five past in Parliament last week, the
Government saying it's delivering what they've described as critical workforce
reforms to support correction staff and ease workforce pressures. Now
the Commissioner of Corrections now has the authority to appoint
special officers, enabling the engagement of experienced interstate correctional officers
(00:25):
and qualified external correctional service providers. The Corrections Commissioner, Matthew
Valley joins me in the studio. Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Good morning again, Katie, Commissioner.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Thanks so much for your time. Now, these legislative changes
obviously mean that you've got the ability to appoint special officers,
enabling the engagement of experienced inter state correctional offices and
qualified external correctional service providers. What are your plans now
when it comes to surging the workforce?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yeah, Katie, So those powers passed through Parliament late last week,
and similar powers exist in others dates and of course
you saw earlier this year police do a similar thing
down in ol Of Springs with South Australia Police. So
it gives me greater flexibility to engage qualified and trained
specialist officers for me to state or private contractors. And
(01:14):
I know there's been some debate about what exactly that means,
and I'm happy to talk about that. But what it
means is ultimately we can go out to the rest
of the country and ask for help, and that's exactly
what we're doing right now. I've been in contact with
some of my interstate counterparts over the weekend to see
what capacity they may have, and we'll be able to
(01:34):
work through that in the days ahead. But of course
we're also approaching a number of those specialists into state providers,
the commercial contractors that have this experience in a state.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So who have you been in contact with into state?
Which different correctional service commissioners and how many officers are
you hoping to bring in.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Well, the answer to that question is all of them.
So I have a communication group with all of our
interstate corrections commissioners and we trade notes on a lot
of stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So I've been speaking with them over the weekend.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Obviously, I don't want to prejudice those negotiations and discussions,
and of course I make the point that you know, every.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Jurisdiction has its own pressures as well.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
So we have a pretty good relationship with our interstate colleagues,
and I'm sure if they can help us reasonably, they will.
But what the difference is here, Katie, with this new
law is I could borrow, you know, one, five, ten, fifteen,
twenty officers from another jurisdiction and appoint them subject to
them being loaned.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
And that's quite different.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Previous to these powers, I would have had to have
those offices be employed by the Northern Territory, which meant
that their home jurisdiction would have had to put them
on leave without pay or resign their position to come
and take up a temp contract.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So this makes it a whole lot easier.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
So right now I'm in those kind of discussions with
my colleagues, and then of course we're out to market
with some direct approaches to a series of those commercial providers.
Obviously there's a procurement process we're following, and we've identified
a series of those specialist contractors who have those expertise
(03:14):
and those capabilities elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
All right, first off, any idea how many officers you
may be able to get from into state or what
are you in an ideal world? How many would you.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Bring in right now, I'd take as many as I
could get, Katie, to be honest with us, hundred and fifty. Well,
I said the other week, I want to recruit another
one hundred correctional officers this year, and we're opening Berramer
Correctional Center, and you know I have one hundred and
sixty four prisoners in there now, We're backed up in watchhouses,
and of course we have new modular blocks coming online
(03:48):
in our springs now. I've also been quite clear that
it's not my intention to put those private contract specialist
firms inside the wire. So if I could borrow supplementary
officers from another jurisdiction, another state jurisdiction, that might be
a surge capacity into our prisons whilst we would continue
to recruit. But again the numbers would depend on negotiations.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, right, And so how quickly are you hoping that
you're going to be able to do that?
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Well, as quickly as possible, And I know that sounds
a bit vague, but again it's subject to two things.
One is another state being able to work through their
machinations to support us if we're successful in those negotiations.
And the second part is the commercial procurement process for
those escort providers. We hope to have the first round
(04:37):
of proposals from those commercial providers to us this week,
so we've moved very fast on that, and then we'll
go into a very rapid I guess panel assessment process
of those tenders, and if we are able to select
a suitable provider or providers, then we would enter into
a rapid commercial contract process. Now again, my legal friends
(05:01):
and we've got some commercial lawyers and other things involved
tell us that that will take a week or two.
So I expect I'd be able to have a contract
in place in a few weeks time, and those deployments
from a commercial provider could flow.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Next month, so as early as March. Absolutely, absolutely, it
does sound as though things are all going to move
pretty quickly. I mean, how how quickly do you need
them to move? In terms of the number of prisoners
you've got at the moment, we know those numbers continue
to rise.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Yeah, they rise every day, Katie, And to be honest
with you, that's all we're doing at the moment is
managing that operational capacity. My team and I have been
working on that all weekend. We are making sure that
every single movement across our system, and you can imagine
there's a lot when you move twenty seven hundred people around.
Every time there's a discharge from the main prison, we'll
take a new prisoner in. We're moving people out to
(05:53):
our work camps as people are ending their sentences. But
this morning, you know, there's twenty seven hundred and seventeen
in our cust city, and I know that there's others
backed up in watchhouses.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
And just to give you an example.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Katie, because of those pressures, you know, I reopened our
operational footprint at Peter McCaulay Center on the weekend. Had
to do it because we were out of beds on Friday.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Okay, so how many how many prisoners have you got
in the Peter McCauley Center.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
At the moment, It was about a dozen there this morning,
and they were short notice placements on Friday evening. My
team worked remarkably well to make that happen. But of course,
what that does, Katie, is that just another site that
we're now staffing, and it's not a long term solution
for us.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So in terms of you know, we've spoken a lot
about those prisoner numbers. I know earlier in the year,
it was an additional four hundred prisoners, is what we've seen.
How many are we up now, is it like more
like five hundred?
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I guess it, Yeah, absolutely, I guess it depends on
where you draw the line. But I think we're about
twenty two hundred when the government came to power back
in August September, and certainly, as I said, when.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I wrote the master plan, and you know, we.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Were projecting a three thousand bed capacity, so we're more
than fifty percent towards that gap now and that's why
we're moving so fast and accelerating, and the government has
asked me to accelerate those works. And even this week, Katie,
we're putting the finishing touches on some demoundable buildings that
we've installed into Beerrima and we've craned them.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Over the fence.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
They're a low security dormitory style accommodation and we're installing
some shower blocks and ablutions there and that'll give us
an extra hundred or so capacity. Fences and fire and
other electrical security systems to be installed this week, and
then I anticipate having the ninety six bed modular facility
operational next week.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
All right, now, all of this is needed, There's no
other way to put it. I mean, those prisoner numbers
continue to grow. You are trying to juggle all of
those prisoners. In the meantime. I mean we've still got
correction stuff saying they're not had about these changes. Have
you had any ability to communicate further to them through
the union or not through the union? Well?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
The first thing I'd say is we've been keeping our
staff informed and I've had senior leaders out and myself
out and around the workplaces over the last you know,
late last week and the weekend. We're answering questions as
we walk and talk. We also have been doing our
all staff messaging and we've got some internal communications going
(08:31):
in relation to that. And the next stage of that process, Katie,
is for implementation phase of these changes. We're going to
be establishing a strategic working group including union representatives. So
I'll be writing to unions and I've flagged that last
week to invite them to participate. But at the moment,
things are tough, and you know, we are still working
(08:52):
through some of those union concerns. The vote of no
confidence obviously is still out and about.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Well, I guess that's their choice.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
What I can say to my staff is, and I've
always said this, is, you know, I'm really proud of
what we have continued to deliver for Corrections and Territorians.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
For weeks and months now. It's not easy, Katie.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
You know, people are working around the clock, they're working
over time, they're stretched, they're tired, and we all are.
But we also understand what the community expects of us,
and that is to deliver. So I guess I have
to focus on that and remind people that, you know,
we do this job for a reason and I'm trying
to do the best with what we have. What I'm
asking my people to do is stick with us and
(09:36):
focus on that vision.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I mean, when you look at what you're trying to do,
when you look at the things that you're trying to juggle,
when you look at the way you're trying to support
your staff and then stuff some stuff. Not happy about that,
and then you've got the union coming out saying you
know that they want to vote of no confidence in you.
Is that like, is that frustrating and upsetting or do
(09:57):
you just keep forging ahead? And keep on are well, I'd.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Be lying to you if I said that it didn't,
you know, frustrate me and upset me.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Of course, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
I lead my people as best I can with the
energy and passion that I try and get.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Up with every day. But at the end of the day,
I expect.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
You know, there'll always be those in unions and the
workplace that disagree with some of my decisions.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I respect that.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I respect their right to protest about that. What I
have to remain focused on is whether I think in
my gut that I'm making the right decisions. And when
I think that, I think, well, I have to focus
on my instincts and my values and get us through
this problem so that we can stabilize the correction system
and bring you know that focus on not only community safety, Katie,
(10:43):
but rehabilitation.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Well, that's one of the other things I do want
to ask you about, Commissioner. Last week, we had a
number of Territorians get in contact with us about the
low security prisoners that would usually mow lawns for senior
Territorians and help some of our senior territorians no longer
able to do that because you have got all your
staff back behind the wire. How quickly do you think
(11:04):
you're going to be able to get some of those
programs back up and running for those seniors it really
appreciate and rely on it. Well.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
The community service work parties, Katie. And we've got the
Mindaw and Analys springs. We also have them in the
work camps, and the work camps in Tenant and Datchelor
have been less affected, but here in Darwen and Analys
we've had to suspend those work parties. And you know
they do service so many pension as, They service community
groups and local councils. In Alice, they manage some of
the grounds keeping around the river.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
And so forth.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
I hope to get those back up and running as
best I can, as quickly as I can. But also
to Katie, there's our industries, facilities, our workshops, our employment
and also our rehabilitation clinical treatment programs. And on Friday
I spoke with a bunch of our clinicians who deliver
and these are psychologists and case workers who deliver treatment
(11:57):
programs for fenders in custody. Now, Katie, I think the
data shows me from one July through to now, we're
fifty percent down on the targeted rate of programs we'd
like to be able to deliver. Now, these are DV programs,
treatment programs for offenders that we should be delivering and
we can't because we're in lockdown.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Well that's pretty shocking in the sense that people do
expect when prisoners go into prison that they are going
to be doing some of those different programs, different rehabilitations
so that they come out better humans, not better criminals.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Absolutely, and that's part of our mission, and that's why
we employ the clinical specialists and the case workers and
the education professionals that we do. That's why we have
a partnership with Charles Darwen University and I met with
the vice chancellor on Friday about how we can expand that.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
But all of it, Katie relies.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
On a stable, well staffed, operational prison system that is unlocked.
And this weekend it hasn't been. It hasn't been unlocked.
You know. Saturday was one of our toughest days I
think in a long time, was entirely lockdown due to
short staffing, and we canceled family visits.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
That's where we're at and I want to I don't
want to sugarcoat that for people.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
And I don't mean to cause alarm and stress for
our staff, but the staff that are there working hard.
We have to then revert to focusing on medical meals
and basic human hygiene and those kind of things. And
these are some of the other impacts. You know, family visits,
if you can't see if you know a kid outside
wants to see Dad and can't, that has an impact
(13:30):
not just on the prisoner Katie and our operations and sentiment,
but the wider community as well.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I mean, that's pretty concerning that you're in a situation
on Saturday where so the whole prison had.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
To be locked down pretty much.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yep, Like, is that the first time you've had to
do that.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
No, it's not, but we don't. I mean, it's highly unusual.
I'll preface that by saying it's highly undesirable to lock
down an entire prison all day. We usually function on
rolling unlocks, which means we'll stage lockdowns and unlocks throughout
the day across different blocks and sectors in an effort
to get prisoners out to do some stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
But Saturday was really tough.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
We were I think, if I'm right, I'm going to
say about forty five staff short.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
On Saturday at Darwin Correctional Center.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Is that just purely due to the fact that we
need more staff or were there people calling in sick?
Speaker 3 (14:22):
What was the guy?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
All of the above?
Speaker 3 (14:24):
To be honest, we had a series of shortages based
on roster vacancies. We had a series of shortages based
on redirections, as I said to Peter McCaulay, watchhouse, a
few other operational activities. We're still running hospital escorts. I
think today, Katie, I've got three officers in sorry, three prisoners,
I should say in Darwin Hospital. I think another two
in our Springs Hospital. So there's three prisoners equals two
(14:48):
officers times twelve hours times.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Two shifts a day.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
So three twos of six times two is twelve officers
in every twenty four hour period at hospital.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
So I guess from your perspective, that really of reiterates
why there is this need for the surge workforce and
also to bring in the you know, the contractors.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
And that just underscores why we pass those amendments through
Parliament and work through with government to get those legislation
changes happened last week. I mean, I just don't accept
the comment from the unit that there is no staffing
crisis in Darwin.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
We've never said that there isn't.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
What I think they're referring to is the fact that
we've recruited more officers.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Into Darwin than ever before. And you know we have recruited.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
I guess we've had to because we're now staffing Darwin
City Watchhouse and Palmerston and so forth.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
But I guess you know, the proof is in the numbers.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
And forty five odd officers short on Saturday in a
prison lockdown is not the kind of system I think
Territorians expect us to operate well.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley, I always appreciate your time, appreciate
the fact that you take the time to come in
to speak to our listeners and no doubt well you
know correctional stuff and also prisoners sit listen to the show.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Thanks Katie, and thanks to all my staff who show
up every day doing the best they can.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Thank you, Thanks so much,
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