Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you're listening to the show last week, you'd know
that there was absolute outrage when a teenager charged over
an incident that left an Alice Springs baby with a
fractured skull, escaped custody after being granted bail to attend
a funeral. The seventeen year old mail was given bail
on Monday last week so that he could attend a
relative's funeral in a remote Northern Territory community. That teen
(00:22):
was flown on a chartered aircraft at a cost to
taxpayers of more than seven thousand dollars, but after attending
the funeral, well, he ran away. Now the Chief Minister
Leofanocchiaro joins me on the show. Good morning to your chief.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Good morning Katie, and to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now I
will say that obviously that teenager has now been apprehended again.
But Chief Minister, territorians are absolutely furious. How on earth
can a teen who was charged over such a horrific
incident not only be granted bail, but taxpayers may pay
more than seven thousand dollars on a charter flight for
(01:01):
him to attend a funeral.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, you're right, Katie, and territorians have a right to
be furious. The Seguenza family has a right to be furious,
and I'm furious as well. This is totally unacceptable. It
just defies any logical understanding of how this happened, let
alone how tax payers paid for the opportunity. Now, it
was only a couple of years ago, Katie, when COVID
(01:24):
was here, that people couldn't say goodbye to their loved
ones who were dying in palliative care, They couldn't attend funerals.
We were locked in our own homes in response to COVID,
law abiding citizens, and yet now we have a situation
where people who have shown total disregard for the law,
in fact beaten a two month old baby and now
having the opportunity to receive BAWD to go to a funeral.
(01:46):
I just it is absolutely unacceptable, and I will get
to the bottom of how this happened, why we paid
for it, and why this will never happen again.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I mean, what was your reaction when you learned that
Judge Meredith Huntingford made this and not only made this decision,
but that then according to the Northern Tiro Train News,
over the weekend. Part of those bail conditions. This person
didn't even have an electronic monitoring bracelet.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Or it is unacceptable. I've asked the Attorney General to
meet with the Chief Justice, Michael Grant, to ask what
kind of responsibility the judiciary take for the decisions they're making.
This has got to be much broader scale accountability across
the system. I know we have a broken justice system,
correction system and laws, and we're working through all of that,
(02:32):
but this one really takes the Kate Katie. It's flawed
all of us. And I rang the Seguenza family and
spoke to them. They're absolutely gutted, and I just apologized.
I mean, what else can you say to a family
who's been so let down? And even though this is
a decision of the judges, I just you know, you
(02:52):
take responsibility. That's leadership. And I just said to them,
we will get to the bottom of how this happened
to make sure it doesn't make it.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
If you did this, people would be screaming for you
to resign. Yes, consequences. We have people pulling you up
in the street, yes, saying, Chief Minister, you know okay,
this is not okay. So what recourse the Territorians have
now when a judge makes a decision like this that
not only doesn't pass the pub test, but it doesn't
actually it doesn't meet the standard by which Territorians expect
(03:23):
nor deserve.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, that's exactly right, and that's why the Attorney General
will be meeting with the Chief Justice. It's why we
will now look at you know, do we need to
strengthen laws even further. At the end of the day,
judges are the ones who have to make the decisions
with the information in front of them, But it's the
Parliament that sets the laws and the community expectation, and
we will continue to walk back into Parliament and strengthen
(03:46):
the laws until we start seeing outcomes that meet community expectations.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So who determined that the taxpayer would foot the bill
for that charter fly?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So that's what I'm trying to work out because I
find it unbelievable that a judge could make that determination.
So I will get to the bottom of that. And
it also even more scary, Katie raises a red flag
for me. If this has happened once, how many times
has it happened? And that's what I'm getting to.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
The well We only know about this, right because the
youth got to.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Wisk exactly what if he didn't, would we have known
about this? I probably wouldn't have, Katie, and neither would
your listeners, and we'd be none the wiser, and perhaps
tomorrow it would happen again.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
So are you worried that this happened other times?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I am absolutely worried that this is just another symptom
of a labor government over the last ten years that
has allowed this kind of thing to happen. So I
can tell your listeners, I will get to the bottom
of this.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Do you know which department the seven thousand dollars came
out or no?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
My understanding is it's children and families. But again I
haven't had the full brief, so I'll reserve my judgment.
But again, how was this authorized? What empowered the judge
to make this call? Why doer territories have to pay
for it? And again I got go back to those
COVID days where so many people didn't have the opportunity,
and yet we have someone in incarcerated having more liberty
(05:07):
than people who were, you know, on a upstanding citizens.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I'll go a step further, and so the thing that
infuriates me about this is we're literally paying for somebody
who was allegedly involved in a baby being seriously injured. Meanwhile,
the family of that baby is having to raise money
before Christmas to be able to support each other throughout
those different medical needs that were required. It's appalling.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It is appalling. You know, they had to fly to
Adelaide relocate, be there for Christmas, you know, and the
community came in around them. It was just beautiful, Katie,
like really, and they are the most lovely family. Those
kids are so terrific, and you know, it's just heartbreaking.
So yep, this is a total fail. This is a
(05:55):
total fail. And I'll work out why, and then it
will work out how we make sure it doesn't happen again.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
So, Chief Minister, from your perspective in terms of the
working out why, yeah, I mean, is there going to
be an audit within the department to find out how
many times this has happened before?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah? So I'm looking at all of those things right now, Katie.
How did this happen? Where does that power come from?
Has it happened before? Was there some sort of exceptional
I just don't know. I just don't have it in
front of me, But I'm asking all of those questions,
and if it's happened before, I'll be letting your listeners
know about it.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Can you assure Territorians that this isn't going to happen again?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, if we'll change whatever law is required to make
sure it doesn't. It just doesn't pass any any test whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
I mean, the thing that I can't write my head
around is even for the department you go, have they
got any means to push back and say, well, no, sorry,
this isn't coming out of my budget. Seven thousand dollars
or seven and a half thousand dollars could be better spent.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
On protecting a child protecting a child, And so I
don't know the answer to that question. So that's all
part of this. But clearly it's been a big red
flag on a lot of issues, and it's just another
you know, with every day, Katie, there's a new sandwich
coming on my desk that's a courtesy of historical labor issues.
(07:14):
This is another one and we just works through it.
That's all I can say is that it is not acceptable.
I'm as angry as the community and will do what
we can to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
So, Chief Minister, from your perspective, when do you think
that we're going to have some of those answers and
when do you think we're going to see some change?
Because I know that our listeners want to be reassured
this isn't going to happen again. And is there any
I mean, is there any recourse for that judge?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
And that's what the Attorney will speak with the Chief
Justice about. And look, I'm hoping this week I'll have
more answers and I'll be really transparent with the community
about it. I have nothing to hide here. If this
has been happening before, we will absolutely make that public.
My focus then, of course, will shift to well what
can we do now. It might be that there's not
much we can do because of judicial discretion and separation
(08:03):
of powers. I don't have the answer to that, but
if there are things we can do, I can absolutely
promise the community that we will do them.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
The big thing that people were saying last week is,
you know, Wolfie, I've had to miss funerals, I've had
to miss special occasions. There's things that I simply cannot
do because I cannot afford to do them. So why
is it that when somebody has broken the law in
such a horrific way that you know that they're actually
being handed that privilege rather than having it taken away.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, I'm in furious agreement with you, Katie. I really,
I genuinely am. It's perplexing to everyone.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Look, there is so much to cover off this morning.
It's not the only situation which outraged the community. Last week,
listeners were really upset and angry when they learned that
a twenty one year old man who crashed a stolen
car into an industrial shed in Yarrawonga in June last year,
killing a forty six year old man inside, had been
sentenced to just two years and five months jail. The
(09:01):
offender pleaded guilty in the Darwin Local Court to careless
driving resulting in death and trespassing and other driving offenses,
and was given a non parole period of thirteen months,
meaning that he will be eligible for parole in July. Now.
We spoke to the victim's sister last week. It was
heart wrenching stuff. The offender was initially charged with an
(09:22):
aggravated charge of recklessly endangering serious harm, which I understand
was dropped due to a lack of evidence, and although
the maximum penalty for unlawful use of a motor vehicle
is five years jail, he only got six months with
that sentence of two years and five months. So the
question people are asking last week and this morning is
(09:43):
how is that adequate for the loss of life? And
I get that there's a number of factors into this one.
It's not as clear cut as oh, why couldn't he
be sentenced for longer? But you know, but people are
sort of going, how do these you know, like, how
did these kind of cases were a territory in doing
nothing wrong? Who's been killed them? Wind up? You know
(10:05):
that it's two and a half years for that life
being lost.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, and again, you know, this is all part of
why we're in government, Katie. We've got to be looking
at our sentencing regimes, the Bail Act, the Youth Justice Act.
There's a number of pieces of legislation that need their
temperature taken, you know, are they still fit for purpose?
Do they still meet community expectation. I don't know the
specific details of that case, obviously, and you know, the
(10:33):
judges made the decision based on the facts in front
of them. But you know this will continue, This will
continue to be a vexed area, you know, an area
of pressure between the community and the judiciary and the
laws and the Parliament, and we've just got to make
sure that we've got the most contemporary laws to suit
what territories need. So for example, the next big piece
(10:53):
of work we're doing is a rewrite of the Youth
Justice Act. Now that won't won't deal with this issue,
but it's just an example of how we're of working
through things to make sure they're hitting the mark. And
I certainly take on board the feedback from the community
and you know, thoughts are obviously with the family who
feel that it's manifestly inadequate.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Lea, just going back to the initial incident that we
spoke about with this seventeen year old being on the
charter flight and being enabled to have that bail. Did
the DPP oppose.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
That, Yes, that's right, Yeah, it was opposed by the DPP.
I believe it was on appeal, So it not only
was opposed by the DPP in the local court that
they then took it to the Supreme Court and opposed
it on that occasion. So again that's all part of
what will come out in the wash, Katie. But yeah,
when the DPP are opposing bail, that's and they've done
(11:40):
a great job. You know, they've done a great job.
Our police did an incredible job standing up the Fugitive
Task Force and getting in there. But again that's a
diversion of resources. So whilst the police did an amazing job,
that meant we had to pull police out of Alice
and other areas, away from frontline policing stopping people breaking
into your home, your business, to go and chased down
a young person who should never have been out in
(12:02):
the first TLD.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
And do we know how much that's going to cost?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Look, I don't, Kate, I don't know the number of
officers involved, But it's just part of that policing what
you have to do, right, they move and respond to
what they need to. The resources are obviously there, but
when something like that happens, it means you take from
somewhere else, so you know, and that's never that's never
a good outcome, Lea.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I know there is a lot going on, and obviously
I feel like I'm sort of covering the same ground
in different examples, but even over the weekend, we had
a situation where the police charged a seventeen year old
male with recklessly endangering serious harm after an incident at
a community in the Central Desert region on Thursday morning.
So police say this teenager, armed within each weapon, threatened
(12:45):
and assaulted his sixteen year old female partner, stabbing her
multiple times in the league. A fifteen year old female
known to the victim attempted to intervene and was stabbed
in the back before the offender continued to assault his
partner by stabbing her in the back. The two female
Vieths fled the offender and we're treated at the local
clinic with serious injuries. Now he's been apprehended and charged
(13:08):
with numerous offenses including you guessed.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
It, breaching to bail, ding ding. It's an all too
familiar story, Katie, breach a bail and that's why we
brought in Declan's Law really urgently in October last year.
We now are doing a review, as I said, a
rewrite of the Youth Justice Act. And if we need
to go back and look at the Barlac, we'll go
back and look at it.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Now there are.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
All sorts of different sort of I suppose considerations judges
have to have and it's important that that discretion is there.
But again, we've got really incredibly dangerous and scary behavior.
And I pose the question out there too of this
young person who's been stabbing people, what's their school attendance record?
And I bet, Katie, I don't know, and this is
(13:53):
absolute speculation, but I bet that kid has an appalling
track record of being at school, which is again why
we're focusing on those root causes of crime and the
front end in focusing on getting kids to school, holding
parents accountable for the young person through school attendance and
family responsibility agreements, because we don't want kids growing up
to be offenders or the next domestic violence perpetrators. And
(14:18):
the correlation between a lack of school and offending is huge.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Chief FINESSTERA, Look, I don't know exactly what the situation
is in this one, same as you know the other
two that we've spoken about and the other incidents that
we very often speak about when they're a breach of bail.
But are you concerned that as the government forges ahead
with the legislative changes you're forging ahead with, you know,
wanting to make it tougher for people to get bail.
Are you worried that some within the judicial system are
(14:43):
going We'll hang on a second. We're going to push
as hard as we can against this.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Look, I mean, they have legislation to follow as well,
and you know they're the people place to do that job.
So I think as long as our laws are strong,
we should most of the time get good outcomes, outcomes
that match the crime, that meet community expectation. Now, you know,
we never get to fully see all the details either,
(15:07):
so we don't have in front of us, Katie, the
information that the judges have. And sometimes when you just
get that high level detail, it doesn't make sense. And
perhaps it makes sense, you know, when you've got all
of it in front of you. But at the end
of the day, our job is to make sure on
the whole that things are working properly. And so again,
this young person will now be brought before the justice
(15:29):
system and that will take its course. But we've got,
you know, two victims who've been stabbed and a young
person exhibiting extremely violent behavior that needs to be dealt with.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Absolutely, it does. Look, there's a couple of other things
I just want to touch on I know you press
for time, but the Darwin Private Hospital, of course, making
the announcement last week that they'll be ceasing those maternity services,
it is going to have an impact in so many ways.
I know that management staff at the Darwin Private Hospital
are heartbroken about this. It's going to be job loss,
(16:02):
it's going to be a lack of choices for families,
just to name a couple of those impacts. Is there
anything more that can be done here?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, we're certainly looking at it. And this will impact
one hundred and fourteen women who are pregnant right now.
And of course this is a really special time in
people's lives and or often a complicated time as well,
and the last thing they need is to be wondering
where on earth they're going to be having their baby.
So we've been We've stood up a special nurse and
(16:31):
midwife to support and provide a lot of support to
those families. Also the staff and we will take on
a lot of those staff and the obstetricians obviously, and
then work through packages. So two options we've been able
to work through right now which can be covered by
private health is obviously, instead of staying in a hotel,
(16:51):
in a hospital bed. You can stay in a hotel
bed twenty four hours, seven day a week, midwif free care,
so that all of those clinical provisions like you would
have at the private happen at the hotel. All they
can happen at home. So that includes cleaning, support, meals,
all of those things, so that it's not going to
feel different, You'll just be in a different location. But Katie,
(17:13):
I really want to make the point and this hasn't
really been made yet. This is why when we are
taking strong action to grow our economy it's so important.
This is a really important example of the territory going
backwards and when it doesn't stack up, it just doesn't
stack up. So in ten years our economy is degraded
so badly that we've gone from seven hundred babies being
(17:34):
born in that hospital every year to three hundred. Now,
the numbers are obviously not there, and that's why we
need a growing population industry development because if the territory grows,
so does the services we get to enjoy and have
access to. And so I know everyone's very much focused
on the women and the families, and we should be,
(17:54):
but I need people to understand that when we're passing
Territory Coordinator or abolishing third party merits or cutting payroll tax.
This is why, so that you have better choice in
your life.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Are you worried that we could see further cuts from
health Scope or that they could wind up in a
situation where the shut services at the Dalwin Private Hospital altogether?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I mean, that's not our understanding, but if we don't
turn our economy around, it will be almost you know,
these things are happening every day where businesses are assessing
do we have the numbers coming through the daughter stay open?
And so it's really really important we have that private
choice and we will continue to work with Hellscope. It's
the last thing we want to see because that in
(18:37):
and of itself will detract from people coming to the territory.
So it's a vicious cycle we're in and there's no
time to lose.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
We did ask, We did speak to Luke Gosling on
the show on Friday. He said that there's been no
additional support requested from the Northern Territory government to the
federal government. Is that the case.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I'm not one hundred percent aware of that, but that
probably would make sense given it's a private business. So
I don't know whether the federal government would be thinking
of coming in and underwriting private services. I mean, that
would be quite extraordinary.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
He said they wouldn't be doing that.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
No, So that would be why that hasn't happened.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Well, look, there's no doubt that it is causing a
lot of distress for a lot of expectant mums. I mean,
is there a situation here where the government could be
flying mums away?
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I don't think so, Katie. That would not be a
good outcome. I mean, we want mothers and families to
be able to be here and having a really well
cared for, wonderful birthing experience. So we just you know,
it's very very early days. All of the teams have
been stood up to provide the support. I've really made
it clear I want them to be really good communication
(19:43):
with the women and the families and understanding what comes
next and making sure they're familiarized out of the private
hospital so they can see the birthing options and suites there,
and we will continue to move forward. We really wanted
Hellscope to give nine months notice so that all women
in the system have the opportunity to be delivered on
their birth plan as they paid for. But Hellscope haven't
(20:05):
come to the party on that. But we will wrap
around these families as best we can and assure them
that their experience and their new baby will still be
a beautiful time in their life and they can enjoy
the same treatment they would get in hospital, either at
home or in our hotel Lea.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Just finally, this morning, there we know that corrections workers
have delivered a resounding no confidence vote for the territory's
prison boss, calling for an immediate dismissal of Commissioner Matthew Varley.
Now on Friday, the United Workers Union released the results
of their no confidence vote, which said ninety eight percent
of workers no longer trusted the leadership of the territory's
(20:43):
prison system. The poll of five hundred and nineteen correctional
officers eighty seven percent of the union membership found only
two percent said they still believed in the leadership of
mister Varley. The United Workers' Union branch secretary erin early
calling on the Corrections minister mainly to stand down mister
Vali immediately. Is that going to happen?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Absolutely not. Commissioner Vali has our full support. He's doing
an amazing job in incredibly difficult circumstances. And I think
this behavior of the Union comes is really poor form
and comes at a really bad time. We've got Erina
early out there making you know, months ago she sat
down with government and said we are down staff. We
(21:26):
have his staffing issue. We are helping address that issue.
Now you know she's running this survey which might I add,
required the names of the corrections officers on it, Katie,
So you know this is a very I would see
this as almost any type of intimidation. You know, why
does the union, when conducting a survey need to know
the names of the people who completed it, presumably so
(21:48):
they can keep track of who filled it out and
who did it and so so.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
You reckon they're doing the dodgy that they're trying to
bully people into voting a service.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Well, why do they need to know people's names as
part of a survey. And oultimately, you know, where was
the union when labor were destroying corrections before the election.
So what we need is come. What we need is
support for our corrections offices. What we need is to
continue implementing our corrections master Plan, which is broad online.
(22:16):
You know around two hundred and sixty more beds since August, Katie,
There's no question they are doing it tough. They are
working long hours, and that's why we're bringing in trained
professionals to help take away the jobs that they don't
need to be doing so that they can focus on
the important stuff, which is inside prisons.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
What is going to happen though, if staff don't have
confidence according to these results in the commissioner.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Look, I think the correction system is despite all of
the challenges, going well, and Commission of Vali is doing
a good job. We have thirteen hundred people in corrections,
so five hundred expressing their dissatisfaction as part of a
union survey. Okay, it can be noted, but ultimately we
have to continue to move forward. Thirty one recruits at
(23:01):
the college right now for correction staff. We're in negotiations
with the providers to come in and provide those prisoner
transfers and hospital visits. So we're on the cusp of
things improving and getting better, Katie, And every day we're
working hard to make sure there's more beds, more staff,
better environment for our corrections officers to be working within,
(23:23):
and we ask them for their patients in that respect.
But this is not a new issue. We have had
critical bed block and shortages for years, Katie. This is
not new, and in fact the only part of it
that's new is that the cops actually doing something to
fix it.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Chief MIT's de Leah Finocchio will leave it there, thank
you as always for your time.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Thank you, and take care everyone.
If you're listening to the show last week, you'd know
that there was absolute outrage when a teenager charged over
an incident that left an Alice Springs baby with a
fractured skull, escaped custody after being granted bail to attend
a funeral. The seventeen year old mail was given bail
on Monday last week so that he could attend a
relative's funeral in a remote Northern Territory community. That teen
(00:22):
was flown on a chartered aircraft at a cost to
taxpayers of more than seven thousand dollars, but after attending
the funeral, well, he ran away. Now the Chief Minister
Leofanocchiaro joins me on the show. Good morning to your chief.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Good morning Katie, and to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now I
will say that obviously that teenager has now been apprehended again.
But Chief Minister, territorians are absolutely furious. How on earth
can a teen who was charged over such a horrific
incident not only be granted bail, but taxpayers may pay
more than seven thousand dollars on a charter flight for
(01:01):
him to attend a funeral.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, you're right, Katie, and territorians have a right to
be furious. The Seguenza family has a right to be furious,
and I'm furious as well. This is totally unacceptable. It
just defies any logical understanding of how this happened, let
alone how tax payers paid for the opportunity. Now, it
was only a couple of years ago, Katie, when COVID
(01:24):
was here, that people couldn't say goodbye to their loved
ones who were dying in palliative care, They couldn't attend funerals.
We were locked in our own homes in response to COVID,
law abiding citizens, and yet now we have a situation
where people who have shown total disregard for the law,
in fact beaten a two month old baby and now
having the opportunity to receive BAWD to go to a funeral.
(01:46):
I just it is absolutely unacceptable, and I will get
to the bottom of how this happened, why we paid
for it, and why this will never happen again.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I mean, what was your reaction when you learned that
Judge Meredith Huntingford made this and not only made this decision,
but that then according to the Northern Tiro Train News,
over the weekend. Part of those bail conditions. This person
didn't even have an electronic monitoring bracelet.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Or it is unacceptable. I've asked the Attorney General to
meet with the Chief Justice, Michael Grant, to ask what
kind of responsibility the judiciary take for the decisions they're making.
This has got to be much broader scale accountability across
the system. I know we have a broken justice system,
correction system and laws, and we're working through all of that,
(02:32):
but this one really takes the Kate Katie. It's flawed
all of us. And I rang the Seguenza family and
spoke to them. They're absolutely gutted, and I just apologized.
I mean, what else can you say to a family
who's been so let down? And even though this is
a decision of the judges, I just you know, you
(02:52):
take responsibility. That's leadership. And I just said to them,
we will get to the bottom of how this happened
to make sure it doesn't make it.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
If you did this, people would be screaming for you
to resign. Yes, consequences. We have people pulling you up
in the street, yes, saying, Chief Minister, you know okay,
this is not okay. So what recourse the Territorians have
now when a judge makes a decision like this that
not only doesn't pass the pub test, but it doesn't
actually it doesn't meet the standard by which Territorians expect
(03:23):
nor deserve.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, that's exactly right, and that's why the Attorney General
will be meeting with the Chief Justice. It's why we
will now look at you know, do we need to
strengthen laws even further. At the end of the day,
judges are the ones who have to make the decisions
with the information in front of them, But it's the
Parliament that sets the laws and the community expectation, and
we will continue to walk back into Parliament and strengthen
(03:46):
the laws until we start seeing outcomes that meet community expectations.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So who determined that the taxpayer would foot the bill
for that charter fly?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So that's what I'm trying to work out because I
find it unbelievable that a judge could make that determination.
So I will get to the bottom of that. And
it also even more scary, Katie raises a red flag
for me. If this has happened once, how many times
has it happened? And that's what I'm getting to.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
The well We only know about this, right because the
youth got to.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Wisk exactly what if he didn't, would we have known
about this? I probably wouldn't have, Katie, and neither would
your listeners, and we'd be none the wiser, and perhaps
tomorrow it would happen again.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
So are you worried that this happened other times?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I am absolutely worried that this is just another symptom
of a labor government over the last ten years that
has allowed this kind of thing to happen. So I
can tell your listeners, I will get to the bottom
of this.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Do you know which department the seven thousand dollars came
out or no?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
My understanding is it's children and families. But again I
haven't had the full brief, so I'll reserve my judgment.
But again, how was this authorized? What empowered the judge
to make this call? Why doer territories have to pay
for it? And again I got go back to those
COVID days where so many people didn't have the opportunity,
and yet we have someone in incarcerated having more liberty
(05:07):
than people who were, you know, on a upstanding citizens.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I'll go a step further, and so the thing that
infuriates me about this is we're literally paying for somebody
who was allegedly involved in a baby being seriously injured. Meanwhile,
the family of that baby is having to raise money
before Christmas to be able to support each other throughout
those different medical needs that were required. It's appalling.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It is appalling. You know, they had to fly to
Adelaide relocate, be there for Christmas, you know, and the
community came in around them. It was just beautiful, Katie,
like really, and they are the most lovely family. Those
kids are so terrific, and you know, it's just heartbreaking.
So yep, this is a total fail. This is a
(05:55):
total fail. And I'll work out why, and then it
will work out how we make sure it doesn't happen again.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
So, Chief Minister, from your perspective in terms of the
working out why, yeah, I mean, is there going to
be an audit within the department to find out how
many times this has happened before?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah? So I'm looking at all of those things right now, Katie.
How did this happen? Where does that power come from?
Has it happened before? Was there some sort of exceptional
I just don't know. I just don't have it in
front of me, But I'm asking all of those questions,
and if it's happened before, I'll be letting your listeners
know about it.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Can you assure Territorians that this isn't going to happen again?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, if we'll change whatever law is required to make
sure it doesn't. It just doesn't pass any any test whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
I mean, the thing that I can't write my head
around is even for the department you go, have they
got any means to push back and say, well, no, sorry,
this isn't coming out of my budget. Seven thousand dollars
or seven and a half thousand dollars could be better spent.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
On protecting a child protecting a child, And so I
don't know the answer to that question. So that's all
part of this. But clearly it's been a big red
flag on a lot of issues, and it's just another
you know, with every day, Katie, there's a new sandwich
coming on my desk that's a courtesy of historical labor issues.
(07:14):
This is another one and we just works through it.
That's all I can say is that it is not acceptable.
I'm as angry as the community and will do what
we can to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
So, Chief Minister, from your perspective, when do you think
that we're going to have some of those answers and
when do you think we're going to see some change?
Because I know that our listeners want to be reassured
this isn't going to happen again. And is there any
I mean, is there any recourse for that judge?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
And that's what the Attorney will speak with the Chief
Justice about. And look, I'm hoping this week I'll have
more answers and I'll be really transparent with the community
about it. I have nothing to hide here. If this
has been happening before, we will absolutely make that public.
My focus then, of course, will shift to well what
can we do now. It might be that there's not
much we can do because of judicial discretion and separation
(08:03):
of powers. I don't have the answer to that, but
if there are things we can do, I can absolutely
promise the community that we will do them.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
The big thing that people were saying last week is,
you know, Wolfie, I've had to miss funerals, I've had
to miss special occasions. There's things that I simply cannot
do because I cannot afford to do them. So why
is it that when somebody has broken the law in
such a horrific way that you know that they're actually
being handed that privilege rather than having it taken away.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, I'm in furious agreement with you, Katie. I really,
I genuinely am. It's perplexing to everyone.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Look, there is so much to cover off this morning.
It's not the only situation which outraged the community. Last week,
listeners were really upset and angry when they learned that
a twenty one year old man who crashed a stolen
car into an industrial shed in Yarrawonga in June last year,
killing a forty six year old man inside, had been
sentenced to just two years and five months jail. The
(09:01):
offender pleaded guilty in the Darwin Local Court to careless
driving resulting in death and trespassing and other driving offenses,
and was given a non parole period of thirteen months,
meaning that he will be eligible for parole in July. Now.
We spoke to the victim's sister last week. It was
heart wrenching stuff. The offender was initially charged with an
(09:22):
aggravated charge of recklessly endangering serious harm, which I understand
was dropped due to a lack of evidence, and although
the maximum penalty for unlawful use of a motor vehicle
is five years jail, he only got six months with
that sentence of two years and five months. So the
question people are asking last week and this morning is
(09:43):
how is that adequate for the loss of life? And
I get that there's a number of factors into this one.
It's not as clear cut as oh, why couldn't he
be sentenced for longer? But you know, but people are
sort of going, how do these you know, like, how
did these kind of cases were a territory in doing
nothing wrong? Who's been killed them? Wind up? You know
(10:05):
that it's two and a half years for that life
being lost.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, and again, you know, this is all part of
why we're in government, Katie. We've got to be looking
at our sentencing regimes, the Bail Act, the Youth Justice Act.
There's a number of pieces of legislation that need their
temperature taken, you know, are they still fit for purpose?
Do they still meet community expectation. I don't know the
specific details of that case, obviously, and you know, the
(10:33):
judges made the decision based on the facts in front
of them. But you know this will continue, This will
continue to be a vexed area, you know, an area
of pressure between the community and the judiciary and the
laws and the Parliament, and we've just got to make
sure that we've got the most contemporary laws to suit
what territories need. So for example, the next big piece
(10:53):
of work we're doing is a rewrite of the Youth
Justice Act. Now that won't won't deal with this issue,
but it's just an example of how we're of working
through things to make sure they're hitting the mark. And
I certainly take on board the feedback from the community
and you know, thoughts are obviously with the family who
feel that it's manifestly inadequate.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Lea, just going back to the initial incident that we
spoke about with this seventeen year old being on the
charter flight and being enabled to have that bail. Did
the DPP oppose.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
That, Yes, that's right, Yeah, it was opposed by the DPP.
I believe it was on appeal, So it not only
was opposed by the DPP in the local court that
they then took it to the Supreme Court and opposed
it on that occasion. So again that's all part of
what will come out in the wash, Katie. But yeah,
when the DPP are opposing bail, that's and they've done
(11:40):
a great job. You know, they've done a great job.
Our police did an incredible job standing up the Fugitive
Task Force and getting in there. But again that's a
diversion of resources. So whilst the police did an amazing job,
that meant we had to pull police out of Alice
and other areas, away from frontline policing stopping people breaking
into your home, your business, to go and chased down
a young person who should never have been out in
(12:02):
the first TLD.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
And do we know how much that's going to cost?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Look, I don't, Kate, I don't know the number of
officers involved, But it's just part of that policing what
you have to do, right, they move and respond to
what they need to. The resources are obviously there, but
when something like that happens, it means you take from
somewhere else, so you know, and that's never that's never
a good outcome, Lea.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I know there is a lot going on, and obviously
I feel like I'm sort of covering the same ground
in different examples, but even over the weekend, we had
a situation where the police charged a seventeen year old
male with recklessly endangering serious harm after an incident at
a community in the Central Desert region on Thursday morning.
So police say this teenager, armed within each weapon, threatened
(12:45):
and assaulted his sixteen year old female partner, stabbing her
multiple times in the league. A fifteen year old female
known to the victim attempted to intervene and was stabbed
in the back before the offender continued to assault his
partner by stabbing her in the back. The two female
Vieths fled the offender and we're treated at the local
clinic with serious injuries. Now he's been apprehended and charged
(13:08):
with numerous offenses including you guessed.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
It, breaching to bail, ding ding. It's an all too
familiar story, Katie, breach a bail and that's why we
brought in Declan's Law really urgently in October last year.
We now are doing a review, as I said, a
rewrite of the Youth Justice Act. And if we need
to go back and look at the Barlac, we'll go
back and look at it.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Now there are.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
All sorts of different sort of I suppose considerations judges
have to have and it's important that that discretion is there.
But again, we've got really incredibly dangerous and scary behavior.
And I pose the question out there too of this
young person who's been stabbing people, what's their school attendance record?
And I bet, Katie, I don't know, and this is
(13:53):
absolute speculation, but I bet that kid has an appalling
track record of being at school, which is again why
we're focusing on those root causes of crime and the
front end in focusing on getting kids to school, holding
parents accountable for the young person through school attendance and
family responsibility agreements, because we don't want kids growing up
to be offenders or the next domestic violence perpetrators. And
(14:18):
the correlation between a lack of school and offending is huge.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Chief FINESSTERA, Look, I don't know exactly what the situation
is in this one, same as you know the other
two that we've spoken about and the other incidents that
we very often speak about when they're a breach of bail.
But are you concerned that as the government forges ahead
with the legislative changes you're forging ahead with, you know,
wanting to make it tougher for people to get bail.
Are you worried that some within the judicial system are
(14:43):
going We'll hang on a second. We're going to push
as hard as we can against this.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Look, I mean, they have legislation to follow as well,
and you know they're the people place to do that job.
So I think as long as our laws are strong,
we should most of the time get good outcomes, outcomes
that match the crime, that meet community expectation. Now, you know,
we never get to fully see all the details either,
(15:07):
so we don't have in front of us, Katie, the
information that the judges have. And sometimes when you just
get that high level detail, it doesn't make sense. And
perhaps it makes sense, you know, when you've got all
of it in front of you. But at the end
of the day, our job is to make sure on
the whole that things are working properly. And so again,
this young person will now be brought before the justice
(15:29):
system and that will take its course. But we've got,
you know, two victims who've been stabbed and a young
person exhibiting extremely violent behavior that needs to be dealt with.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Absolutely, it does. Look, there's a couple of other things
I just want to touch on I know you press
for time, but the Darwin Private Hospital, of course, making
the announcement last week that they'll be ceasing those maternity services,
it is going to have an impact in so many ways.
I know that management staff at the Darwin Private Hospital
are heartbroken about this. It's going to be job loss,
(16:02):
it's going to be a lack of choices for families,
just to name a couple of those impacts. Is there
anything more that can be done here?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, we're certainly looking at it. And this will impact
one hundred and fourteen women who are pregnant right now.
And of course this is a really special time in
people's lives and or often a complicated time as well,
and the last thing they need is to be wondering
where on earth they're going to be having their baby.
So we've been We've stood up a special nurse and
(16:31):
midwife to support and provide a lot of support to
those families. Also the staff and we will take on
a lot of those staff and the obstetricians obviously, and
then work through packages. So two options we've been able
to work through right now which can be covered by
private health is obviously, instead of staying in a hotel,
(16:51):
in a hospital bed. You can stay in a hotel
bed twenty four hours, seven day a week, midwif free care,
so that all of those clinical provisions like you would
have at the private happen at the hotel. All they
can happen at home. So that includes cleaning, support, meals,
all of those things, so that it's not going to
feel different, You'll just be in a different location. But Katie,
(17:13):
I really want to make the point and this hasn't
really been made yet. This is why when we are
taking strong action to grow our economy it's so important.
This is a really important example of the territory going
backwards and when it doesn't stack up, it just doesn't
stack up. So in ten years our economy is degraded
so badly that we've gone from seven hundred babies being
(17:34):
born in that hospital every year to three hundred. Now,
the numbers are obviously not there, and that's why we
need a growing population industry development because if the territory grows,
so does the services we get to enjoy and have
access to. And so I know everyone's very much focused
on the women and the families, and we should be,
(17:54):
but I need people to understand that when we're passing
Territory Coordinator or abolishing third party merits or cutting payroll tax.
This is why, so that you have better choice in
your life.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Are you worried that we could see further cuts from
health Scope or that they could wind up in a
situation where the shut services at the Dalwin Private Hospital altogether?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I mean, that's not our understanding, but if we don't
turn our economy around, it will be almost you know,
these things are happening every day where businesses are assessing
do we have the numbers coming through the daughter stay open?
And so it's really really important we have that private
choice and we will continue to work with Hellscope. It's
the last thing we want to see because that in
(18:37):
and of itself will detract from people coming to the territory.
So it's a vicious cycle we're in and there's no
time to lose.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
We did ask, We did speak to Luke Gosling on
the show on Friday. He said that there's been no
additional support requested from the Northern Territory government to the
federal government. Is that the case.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I'm not one hundred percent aware of that, but that
probably would make sense given it's a private business. So
I don't know whether the federal government would be thinking
of coming in and underwriting private services. I mean, that
would be quite extraordinary.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
He said they wouldn't be doing that.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
No, So that would be why that hasn't happened.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Well, look, there's no doubt that it is causing a
lot of distress for a lot of expectant mums. I mean,
is there a situation here where the government could be
flying mums away?
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I don't think so, Katie. That would not be a
good outcome. I mean, we want mothers and families to
be able to be here and having a really well
cared for, wonderful birthing experience. So we just you know,
it's very very early days. All of the teams have
been stood up to provide the support. I've really made
it clear I want them to be really good communication
(19:43):
with the women and the families and understanding what comes
next and making sure they're familiarized out of the private
hospital so they can see the birthing options and suites there,
and we will continue to move forward. We really wanted
Hellscope to give nine months notice so that all women
in the system have the opportunity to be delivered on
their birth plan as they paid for. But Hellscope haven't
(20:05):
come to the party on that. But we will wrap
around these families as best we can and assure them
that their experience and their new baby will still be
a beautiful time in their life and they can enjoy
the same treatment they would get in hospital, either at
home or in our hotel Lea.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Just finally, this morning, there we know that corrections workers
have delivered a resounding no confidence vote for the territory's
prison boss, calling for an immediate dismissal of Commissioner Matthew Varley.
Now on Friday, the United Workers Union released the results
of their no confidence vote, which said ninety eight percent
of workers no longer trusted the leadership of the territory's
(20:43):
prison system. The poll of five hundred and nineteen correctional
officers eighty seven percent of the union membership found only
two percent said they still believed in the leadership of
mister Varley. The United Workers' Union branch secretary erin early
calling on the Corrections minister mainly to stand down mister
Vali immediately. Is that going to happen?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Absolutely not. Commissioner Vali has our full support. He's doing
an amazing job in incredibly difficult circumstances. And I think
this behavior of the Union comes is really poor form
and comes at a really bad time. We've got Erina
early out there making you know, months ago she sat
down with government and said we are down staff. We
(21:26):
have his staffing issue. We are helping address that issue.
Now you know she's running this survey which might I add,
required the names of the corrections officers on it, Katie,
So you know this is a very I would see
this as almost any type of intimidation. You know, why
does the union, when conducting a survey need to know
the names of the people who completed it, presumably so
(21:48):
they can keep track of who filled it out and
who did it and so so.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
You reckon they're doing the dodgy that they're trying to
bully people into voting a service.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Well, why do they need to know people's names as
part of a survey. And oultimately, you know, where was
the union when labor were destroying corrections before the election.
So what we need is come. What we need is
support for our corrections offices. What we need is to
continue implementing our corrections master Plan, which is broad online.
(22:16):
You know around two hundred and sixty more beds since August, Katie,
There's no question they are doing it tough. They are
working long hours, and that's why we're bringing in trained
professionals to help take away the jobs that they don't
need to be doing so that they can focus on
the important stuff, which is inside prisons.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
What is going to happen though, if staff don't have
confidence according to these results in the commissioner.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Look, I think the correction system is despite all of
the challenges, going well, and Commission of Vali is doing
a good job. We have thirteen hundred people in corrections,
so five hundred expressing their dissatisfaction as part of a
union survey. Okay, it can be noted, but ultimately we
have to continue to move forward. Thirty one recruits at
(23:01):
the college right now for correction staff. We're in negotiations
with the providers to come in and provide those prisoner
transfers and hospital visits. So we're on the cusp of
things improving and getting better, Katie, And every day we're
working hard to make sure there's more beds, more staff,
better environment for our corrections officers to be working within,
(23:23):
and we ask them for their patients in that respect.
But this is not a new issue. We have had
critical bed block and shortages for years, Katie. This is
not new, and in fact the only part of it
that's new is that the cops actually doing something to
fix it.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Chief MIT's de Leah Finocchio will leave it there, thank
you as always for your time.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Thank you, and take care everyone.
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