The Week That Was – 28th February 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is time for the week that wasn't in the
studio with us this morning. We've got the Northern Territories
Treasurer and Minister for Various Portfolios, Bill Yeah, and good
morning Bill.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Good morning Katie, Good morning everyon on the top end.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Great have you in the studio. And also joining us
from Sky News the Bureau Chief for the Northern Territory
Matt Cunningham. Good morning to.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
You morning, Will Fee.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
And we've got the Deputy Opposition Leader, a member for
Daily Duran Jan Good.

Speaker 4 (00:25):
Morning, Ah, Good morning Katie, and good morning to your listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Now it's been another incredibly busy week and I will
start off with saying that we received throughout the week
a four page statement issued from the Chief Justice of
the Supreme Court of the Northern Territory. The statement was
issued in response to public commentary concerning the grant of
bail to a teenager well more than ten days ago.

(00:49):
The statement was no doubt intended to provide some explanation
around the decision, and, according to that statement, to outline
the conventions that limit the manner and the extent to
which judges are able to participate in debate about decisions
that they've made. It continued that some of the commentary
and criticism misunderstands the considerations that the courts are required

(01:12):
to take into account when determining whether to grant compassionate
bail to youths on remand the statement was extensive. I
read it out in full a couple of times throughout
this week. The problem is, I thought the statement raised
more questions from our listeners than it answered. There was
a number of questions around the granting of bail for

(01:35):
compassionate and also cultural reasons. Plenty of people also asking, really,
how often this is happening and at what cost? Now?
It was no doubt that the statement was intended to
be a context providing statement, and I think that it
was to some degree. It provided further detail to a
lot of Territorians as to why that decision was made.

(01:58):
But really a lot of people still how we got
to that decision in the first place. Again, I will
say it was you know, it was pretty unprecedented. I
think to see a four page statement issue by the
Chief Justice. I can't remember it ever happening before.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
Matt can I Well, I think there are a couple
of things that were pretty unprecedented because I think there
were two radio interviews that the Chief Minister gave in
the two days before that statement that were pretty unprecedented
as well. They I think were welcomed by large sections
of the community. But here on Monday and then on
the ABC on Tuesday, she did not hold back in
her criticism of the judiciary over that decision, and that

(02:36):
is unusual in my time in the Northern Territory. I
don't think I have heard a Chief Minister criticize a
judge or the judicial system in the way Leo Finocchiaro
did on Monday and Tuesday. And she was asked as
well about whether she was sort of overstepping that line
when it comes to the separation of powers, and her

(02:57):
response was basically that she I'm probably verbaling her a
little bit here, that she didn't care that she was
representing the outrage in the community over that decision. When
it comes to the statement that subsequently followed, I think
there was probably a hope from the Chief Justice, and
then there was a statement last night from the Law
Society as well that if people had all of the

(03:19):
information that it would perhaps quell the outrage a little bit.
But I think it only made people more upset about
what had happened, because in that statement we got more
of those facts. One of the facts was that the
Department of Corrections had opposed bail absolutely because they said
it was too risky, the risk was too more. And

(03:40):
yet then the Department of Children and Families has said, oh,
it's all right, we'll take him, no worries, and then
he escaped.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
The other thing, the other thing in the statement, it
talks about all the things that the judge has to
consider when granting bail or not granting bail, But is
the cost one of the considerations because this invoice was
put to the court, the judge knows that the cost
is seven six hundred dollars plus for that charter flight.

(04:09):
I mean, is that a consideration at any point or
is it just because it doesn't seem that that is
one of the things that needs to be considered.

Speaker 5 (04:17):
And the issue for the Department there too is that
once the judge Supreme Court judge makes that order to
do this, you have to take that person to this
place for these.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Reasons, so you can't push that.

Speaker 5 (04:30):
They have to do it otherwise they're in contempt of court.
So they have to bear the costs, and the Chief
is quite right. Lot the Chief was responding to the
sentiments of the community, you can imagine, and we all
heard the community outrage during the week, and I looked
at the Chief Justice's response. But at the end of
the day, we all have some personal responsibility. If trust me,

(04:51):
if Corrections had to take them out and something had
to happen, Corrections would have been held accountable. If the
police had done it, trust me, the police would have
been held accountable. So so at the end of the day,
now we've got a judge who has ordered to this
take place. Everyone said, probably don't do it with the
risk is too high. Then this doesn't absolve the judge

(05:12):
of some accountability. And that's what I suppose the Chief
Justice has come out and said. But there's we're all
accountable at some level, Katie, and we all have to
bear that responsibility.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Well, absolutely, and I suppose, you know, maybe that's what
Matt and I need to do at the moment. The
law society having a crack at the media coverage of
the way in which this is unfolded throughout the week.
I'm not one hundred percent sure which part of it.
There are concerns with But what I can say is that,
you know, my job is to be a voice for
everyday territorians. That's the reason I get out of bed

(05:43):
and come into my office, which is this studio, every
single day. And the voice of those territorians at the
moment is really loudly saying that they do not feel
that the victim's voices are being heard in the way
in which they expect them to be heard. Now, I
understand there's a lot of different factors come into play,
whether you're talking about the courts, whether you're talking about police,
whether you're talking about corrections, territory families, whatever area that

(06:07):
may be. But people are really fed up. They've had
a gut full with the status quo. They are not
happy with the way in which things are proceeding in
the Northern Territory. They expect change and they feel like
the Chief ministers listening.

Speaker 4 (06:23):
Well, look, Katie, First of all, obviously, you know, none
of us here condemn any of those violent crimes that
we've seen over the last few weeks and especially with
this incident. But what is concerning is the Chief Minister
did come out and mislead the public with what had
happened because she well, she had stated that it was
the person that had been released on bail was the

(06:44):
person that hit that young baby. So I think that
was very misleading and that created fear in the community,
fear mongering in the community. She needs to come out
and show leadership and actually get those facts right. So
but then also to come out and over arch her
powers and criticize the judicial system, like we need to
ensure that there are a separation of powers. Our roles

(07:08):
as member of parliament is to create law, put those
laws through the Parliament, which is then guided by the
judicial system, not then over arch our powers and tell.

Speaker 6 (07:19):
The judicial system what to do.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
We have clear sets, we have clear we have clear
but we have we have clear sets of rules, clear
sets of rules, and it's showing that yours are failing.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
That is it something that the former government never had
the guts to do.

Speaker 4 (07:37):
Well, No, we knew our role and that's what's happened.
When we see.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
Actually need to stand up and say, hang on a
sec I don't agree with this. Do you actually sometimes
need to stand up for people and say I, actually,
you know, I don't agree with the status quad the
way in which this is happening. Isn't a good use
of taxpayers dollars and the community expects different.

Speaker 4 (07:59):
Well, the way we do that, as MLA's Katie is
that we create the laws, which is then guided by
the judicial system. So again, what we've seen over the
last few months is Leaf Nokia try and distract people
from her failed laws. She said when should come into
government after one hundred days, there would be no crime
in the Northern Territory.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
That hasn't happened.

Speaker 6 (08:19):
She did say that on radio.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
That there'd be no crime. She said that there would
be like.

Speaker 4 (08:27):
So that hasn't happened. So we've seen we've seen pieces
of legislation rushed through the parliament without any consultation, without
working with the experts, without putting it through scrutiny committees.
And then now she's come out and blamed the judicial system.
I think it's a you know, we have a basic
principle in our roles that we do not interfere with

(08:51):
the judicial system and politicize the judicial system. We create
the laws and put them through Parliament, which is guided
by the judicial system.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
I think the judicial system got this one right.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
Oh look, clearly, I'm not going to comment on that,
because each individual case has its own set of circumstances.

Speaker 6 (09:11):
But she did mislead the public.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
No, she did.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
You're right about that, And I would like to actually
touch on that point for a second because there is
a Law Society statement out last night that has criticized
the media as well. And I just got gone back
and read the initial story that we first reported last
Thursday and spoke about here last Thursday, and it does
say that that teenager was involved in that home invasion allegedly,

(09:36):
but it doesn't say that he was the teenager who actually.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Allegedly struck the baby.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
That's the difference that the Chief Minister made, I think
in some of her public commentary was that she said
that this was the teenager who had allegedly struck the baby,
which is incorrect.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
And that's exactly right.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
And when you're a chiefs for a lot of people
listening to the show this morning, and this has actually
been raised with us because I made that point on
the show yesterday after someone it had actually messaged through
and said Katie, I don't understand why that teenage is
not facing charges of actually, you know, of assaults related
to that baby being harmed. And we went back and
found the pressure release and said, well, no, the situation

(10:13):
here is that that young person may not have looked
that they were not the one as the as the
statement from the Chief Justice had stated, they were not
the one allegedly who'd struck the baby. Now, for a
lot of people listening to this show, they had said, well,
I don't actually feel as though I'm any happier with

(10:34):
that teenager being granted bail because they were still culpable
in terms of breaking into or invading allegedly a whole.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
And part of that offense.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
That's the thing.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
And at the end of the day, he is his young.

Speaker 5 (10:47):
Fellow as part of that offense to he step in
when his mate was wielding that piece of steel and
hit the baby, and so he stopped doing this and
get out. No, he participated in the commission of that
offense at the end of the day.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
So in my.

Speaker 5 (10:58):
Books, he's just as culpable as the guy that actually
struck the baby. In the eyes of the law is not.
But in my eyes, what did he do to stop that?
And that's what I take away from this, Katie. And look,
the Chief might not have been right in what she
said she might not have had all the facts at
the time, she might not have been aware of who
actually committed the offense. But at the end of the day,

(11:19):
the fact that this has been allowed to happen really
and I understand what Duran's saying. At the end of
the day, Yes, there is that separation between the judiciary,
but the judiciary at some point in time need to
be held accountable for their decision, good or bad, because
the rest of us are and they can't behind the
high behind the fact that they are judged to say, well, well,

(11:40):
I'm not responsible for.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
My and they have said that. They have said, you know,
the Chief Justice and the Law Society of their statements
have said that, you know, judges need to be you know,
their decisions need to be and they they need to
be held up to public scrutiny. And their argument is
that you need all of the facts. I think, and
you've read out, as you say, several the entire statement.

(12:02):
I don't think that when people have been given all
of the facts in this case, in the Chief Justice's
four paid statement, I don't think that has quelled the
level of outrage about this decision.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
It hasn't from my listeners, it hasn't. Now, you know,
I can't speak for every territory and nor would I
ever profess to, but it hasn't.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
I think it's actually raised more questions about what has happened.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
The statement has actually raised more questions for a lot
of people, not only about what has happened, but how
often this is happening? So how often is compassionate bail
being granted? And how often is the taxpayer paying for
people that are in in that you know, like in
corrections in how.

Speaker 5 (12:48):
You look at the way the corrections do. I know
this being in there for quite some time. As if
someone wants a person to go to a funeral, there
is a very rigid set of rules applied and an
assessment method done. So all those is I've got to
tick all these boxers before they can even be considered
to attend a funeral outside of custody. But the cavet
at the end of the day is that the family

(13:09):
or somebody has to pay for that person to attend
the funeral.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
It's not picked up by the territory taxpayer.

Speaker 5 (13:15):
So there's all these cave It's done to make sure
that the community is safe, the officers are safe, the
offender is safe and then yes, somebody has to pay
for it, and it's not the taxpayer.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Well, and again this is where that question is being
asked about. How often though, when it is a youth
who's in you know, who's in youth justice, how often
that is not the case and the taxpayer is actually paying.
So that is something that the Chief Minister had raised
on the show in fact on Monday morning. But the
other part of the statement that I was quite fascinated
by was the fact that right at the end of

(13:49):
the Chief Justice actually sees unlike New South Wales by
way of example, there's no provision in the Northern Territory
legislation requiring that bail must not be granted to a
youth unless the court has a high degree of confidence
the young person will not commit a further offense while
on bail. However, it must be born in mind that

(14:10):
since the introduction of the New South Wales provision, the
number of youths in custody in that jurisdiction has increased
by thirty two percent. So people again asking throughout the week, okay, well,
do we need to have a look at what New
South Wales is doing and do things differently.

Speaker 5 (14:26):
Well, we've made some changes to the bay laws already, Katie,
and we're seeing a marked difference in what's taking place.
Do we need to make more changes? If what we're
doing and I said that, the Chief and the Ag
and the Deputy Chief Minister have been out on radio
this week saying the same thing. So we made a
sweet of changes so far. If that's not going far
enough and we need to make some more changes, well

(14:47):
then we need to look at those and bring those
back into the Parliament because we need to make sure
at the end of the day that the community is
safe and that what we're doing is meeting community expectator.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Well again, I would like I would say that to
a lot of everyday people. They're probably listening and thinking, Wow,
I'm actually surprised that if somebody is granted bail that
it's that it is not already a provision that unless
the court's got a high degree of confidence that they're
not going to commit a further offense on bail by
breaching bail or you know, absconding, that that they would

(15:20):
be released. Do you know what I mean? Like people
like a lot of people would be thinking. I would
have thought that the court actually had to believe that
there was a high degree of confidence that they weren't
going to do the wrong thing before they before they
were bailed.

Speaker 5 (15:35):
Well, you think that the courts would be taking that
into account when they're granting bail. They'll be looking at
all the conditions where the person is going to be
staying previous bail compliance at the end of the day.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
And I think the Chief justiceays any statement, they don't
have to have that high.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Degree of confidence.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
And I think you're saying the expectation would be that
it would be an expectation that there is that high
degree of confidence because otherwise, because this is the other
part of this story. If you don't have that high
degree of confidence and the law says you don't have
to have it here, right, and then the youth in
this case absconce what is the then subsequent cost of

(16:12):
sending a police task force out to that community to
apprehend him. So we've got seven six hundred dollars in
the first place for the charter flight, and then we've
got question mark. I don't know whatever it costs. I
don't know how many were sent out there. I don't
know for sure how they got out there. I presume
they flew. What was the cost of flying them out
there to apprehend him and then come back. And then

(16:32):
it comes back to the accountability of the judge and
the decision. You know, if I was if I was
in my job and I made a decision that cost
my company twenty thousand dollars, I would have a very
very sore backside if I still had a job. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
That's yeah. Look, there is I mean, this discussion is
not going away in a hurry. And I think what
we've also seen subsequently is is further eyes our ends
really keeping a very close eye on some of the
decisions that are being made within our court system and
people questioning you know, some of the sentencing and some

(17:10):
of what we are seeing come out through the court.
I think that the you know, the government have really
committed to not wanting things to remain as they have.

Speaker 5 (17:21):
We've seen those working in bio laws, Katie, over a
number of years now, and we're slowly starting to turn
those around. We've made that initial change in that first Parliament.
There's still more work to be done to make sure
that we're meeting community expectations and keeping the community safe.
It's said a long time, eight years of things going
backwards and things falling in favor of the crooks rather

(17:44):
than favor of the community. So that's what we've got
to turn around.

Speaker 4 (17:46):
Well.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
And in addition to this, through the week we saw
another story by Matt Cunningham that the Northern Territory government
and the judiciary reportedly at loggerheads over a plan to
hold court hearings on prison grounds. Senior government and legal
sources confirming two Sky News that the government's been working
on a proposal for the local courts to sit on
the prison property as it seeks to reduce some massive

(18:09):
backlogging cases that's clogging courts and prisons. I mean, Matt,
this was a story again that got people talking. They
were sort of going, all right, well, if it is
able to save some money, if we're able to do
it in an open and transparent way so that we
can indeed make sure that we know what's going on
within the courts there, maybe it's something we need to
look at.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
Yeah, and there's been some pushback from the judges, is
my understanding. I was actually told that it was put
directly to the Chief Judge Elizabeth Morris, and she had
basically gone back and said, we don't think this is
a good idea. I'll put that question directly to the courts,
and didn't get a straight answer about that. But what

(18:49):
they did say in the statement sent me was that
they had concerns about the open court system and the
fact that courts needed to be open to the public
and accessible. Well, my understanding is that the plan is
to have it on that if you go out to
Holtz Prison, for example, the prison grounds are much bigger
than the prison itself. You have to actually drive through

(19:09):
the entry to the prison, and then there's the cottages
and all other buildings that sit outside of the main
prison wall, and then you get to the main prison wall.
So my understanding is that the plan would be to
have to hold those court hearings in some of those
buildings that sit outside the main prison wall but are
still on the prison grounds. And I don't know whether
Bill has knowledge of this idea, but that is what

(19:32):
my understanding would be, So the judges wouldn't have to
go inside the prison wall, and therefore, theoretically, I believe
the public could still be able to access those court
hearings because at the moment you can drive straight through
those gates and into the car park that sits on
the prison grounds but is not inside the prison itself.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Look and as sudden.

Speaker 5 (19:48):
Look, I've been on this for years and years and
years in my old job, and I've been.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
To prisons all over Australia and all over the world.

Speaker 5 (19:55):
And I think that the big one silver Water in
New South Wales has got a court inside the prison.
Really yeah, absolutely, It sits inside the prison. And what
it comes down to is efficiency. So every time you
move an offender out of a secure facility, there is
risk whether and ninety percent of your escapes happen outside
of custody.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
So court escorts, hospital escorts.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
We've seen them so many times for unital escorts. Remember
the one in the Supreme Court, Remember the one?

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Oh yeah ye.

Speaker 5 (20:23):
So in those larger prisons elsewhere, the courts are inside
the prison. So the offender comes and sits in court.
There's a place inside the prison that designates the court.
We've done this during COVID. COVID we couldn't move around,
so we run courts inside the prisons via video link up.
We run courts out to the bush via video link up.
It can be done. The judiciary needed to be reminded

(20:46):
it's a twenty first century and there's technology available.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
And we can do things differently.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
At a lot of this stuff's done via AVL now
though already isn't it some.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Stuff not by AVL.

Speaker 5 (20:55):
It needs to be a little bit of change somewhere
for the admission of evidence that I'm aware of, And
the courts are still pushing back on that first hearing
or that first time in court having to be there
in person. But there's ways that we can do this
stuff now to make it more efficient.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
And it would it.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
Be Would it be in silver Water? Is I presume
in silver Water if it's inside the actual prison that
that's not accessible to the public.

Speaker 5 (21:21):
No, it's not accessible to that right, and the offender
comes in as a room inside the prison that is
designated as an actual court. It's not prison. The offender
sits there and they attend court virtually.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
So it's no.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
Is the plan here to do it inside the prison
wall or outside the prison wall.

Speaker 5 (21:37):
I'm not exactly sure what Minister's talking about there, but
there are certainly ways to be able to do this
to make it more efficient, easier for corrections at the
end of the day.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
Well, that's the other issue as well, because we had
a twenty one million dollar overtime bill last year for
corrections and a lot of that, my understanding is a
huge part of.

Speaker 5 (21:54):
Court escorts and remote court escorts. So there's ways to
do things smarter, and we've been when I was in
a job. We will push the judiciary to make some
changes to make things easier for us, and even particularly
around scheduling, to bring certain offenders in before lunch and
certain defenders after lunch, so we could actually keep our
officers back in the prison and be smart about the
way that we did business. But the courts are very

(22:16):
very reluctant and resision to any form of change whatsoever.
I think there's a will now to make some change
within the judicial system, which is good.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
I'm just hoping that a public response to that idea
seems to be fairly positive from what I've seen over
the past couple of days.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
What do you make of it? To run?

Speaker 4 (22:33):
Look, I haven't seen the plan at all to the
courts being on prison grounds.

Speaker 6 (22:38):
So that's you know, obviously it's a bit hard to.

Speaker 4 (22:41):
Support the full implications of the plan, But I think again,
it needs to go through a series of consultation because
there could be unintended consequences to this, and that The
first thing that comes to mind is, you know, I
think it is important that people have that face to
with the judicial system, especially in the territory where we

(23:04):
have people that language is you know, third fourth language,
and that makes it even harder. You know, I've done
skytte videos out to communities. It makes it very hard.
So that I think we need to look at that
and ensure that especially when we've got people in remand
we've got people that are on bail, to ensure that
you know, we're not sentencing innocent people and that they

(23:26):
do get a fair trial at the end of the day.
So that that comes to mind straight away. But you know,
to make for the comment, we need to see the
full plan outlined.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
We're going to take a bit of a break. You
are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.
It is the week that was. You are listening to
the week that was if you've just joined us this
morning in this studio is Bill Yan, Matt Cunningham and
Duran Young. Now there has been a lot happening this
week and we've spoken about a large majority of it.
But Matt, you got people talking this morning with this

(23:57):
other story that you'd covered about the Northern Territory Chief
man to Leah Finocchiaro defending her decision not to acknowledge
traditional owners at last week's Bombing of Darwin ceremony, saying
the practice had become so widespread under labor it had
lost its meaning. Missus Fanocchiaro was one of eight dignitaries
to deliver a speech at the event. Others included the
Deputy Prime Minister and plenty of others National MP Barnaby Joyce.

(24:22):
Each speaker acknowledged the Larokia traditional owners, while Professor Hege
delivered his welcome in the Larakia language. There was also
a five minute welcome to country that was delivered by
Larochia Man James Parfert, but the Chief Minister made no
mention of the Larakie people. She instead made a special
mention of veterans and their families. What did you make

(24:44):
of it?

Speaker 4 (24:46):
Look, I find it very concerning that the leader of
the Northern Territory refuses to acknowledge the Larachea people, especially
at such a significant event.

Speaker 6 (24:55):
Where Larakia people fought.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
Alongside other members, especially at the time when people won't recognized.
So I find it very concerning and also to come
and politicize the issue, to say, oh, you know, well,
this is a labor policy that's been handed over to us.
I mean, the Chief Minister was happy to do acknowledgments
to country before she was elected, and then all of

(25:19):
a sudden she's changed her tune and tried to divide
the community and turned it into a divisive manner. It
doesn't take much to show a bit of respect, and
especially when you're a leader and you're the Chief Minister,
she should be showing a lot more respect to Larry
Key of people. And I think it's quite worrying that
she's not acknowledging people, especially now that this is the

(25:41):
you know, we're talking about this is the main issue.
We've got cost of living issues, we've got crime issues,
Yet here we are talking about this because the leader
of the Northern Territory refuses to acknowledge judicial honess.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
I am the events all the time. I've seen some
of the most incredible welcome to countries. I reckon that,
like I feel like I've probably seen more than most
people and some of them are absolutely incredible. I will say,
like the Youth Mill, some of the ones that I've
seen that they've done have been so good. Sometimes Auntie
Billa Wara, when she gets up and says her words,

(26:13):
I get goose pokes and think, oh, it's amazing. You know,
it's absolutely amazing. As the MC, I will like, I
always thank the person who has stood up and done
that welcome to country, and you know, if it's moved me,
I definitely would acknowledge the fact that it's moved me.
What I've noticed though, over the years is that I
feel as though sometimes other people then get up and

(26:34):
they make that acknowledgement, and it sometimes doesn't feel genuine,
to be honest with you, It feels like they're doing
it because they think they need to. And I kind
of think, well, and I kind of think to myself,
unless you've got you know, if you're not going to
say something that actually like that, you know that's meaning.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
Well, it's funny. At the at the Bombing of Darwin ceremony,
I would say that the most meaningful acknowledgment of the
laroche of people are apart from James Parfitt's Welcome to Country,
but the most meaningful one came from Barnaby Joyce, right,
because everyone else said it at the beginning of their speech.
It was like, that's the box I need to tick, right,
I've got to say this, this this Barnaby. When you
go back and watch it, he doesn't get to it

(27:14):
until about two minutes in, right, and he's talking about
our allies and he's talking about and then he starts
talking about the Lara Kir people and then he starts
talking about their role in the defense of Darwin. So
it meant something, right, and it was a good It
was part of his speech and it was it was terrific.
But I get your point. Like, the best welcome to
country I've ever seen was Richard Fijo at the dream
Time game between Richmond and Essendon that was held here

(27:34):
in twenty twenty during COVID that went national. I don't think,
you know, unless you're a card carrying racist, I don't
think you could watch that and not be moved, you know,
in some way by that welcome. Now he's been. Richard
has been one of the most vocal critics of Lea's
failure to acknowledge touching in this incident, but I don't know.
I think there is a difference between a moving welcome
to country and some of the acknowledgements of the country.

(27:57):
The worst example I can think of is the one
you get on the plane, whether the air hostess is
telling you to put up your trade table and put
down and your window and in the same monotone voice,
you know, gives an acknowledgment of not even necessarily the
larachilla like just the traditional owners, whoever they may be.
And I think corporate Australia has played a big part in,

(28:21):
you know, making it something that has lost its meaning
at some level. For something to be meaningful, it has
to mean something to the person who's saying the words.

Speaker 5 (28:30):
I think, I suppose and I look at what's taken
place this week in Dran.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
I don't think you're quite right. Just because leader's near
the chievements, it doesn't mean she stopped doing it.

Speaker 6 (28:40):
She has.

Speaker 5 (28:42):
And she was and there was a times that you're
only talking about one instance there though previously in opposition
she was doing the same thing. Because I do the
same thing myself personally. If someone doesn't welcome the country
and then someone does an acknowledgement of country, and I
get uplated to talk. I generally don't do an acknowledge
in a country because it has already been done.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
If I'm the.

Speaker 5 (29:01):
First speaker up or I'm the MC, I will do
that acknowledgment of country. If people choose to do it
after me, that's up to them. But I know that
once it's been done, I'm happy with that, and if
I get up to talk later, I generally don't do it.
And the same has happened in this instance with the
Chief Minister. I know previously she'd been at functions where
the acknowledgement of country has been done, so she hasn't

(29:22):
done it, or she's the first speaker, she will have
done it, and it's not expected for people.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
Do you think Duran that if there's a welcome to
country at an event, that each speaker then individually should
do an acknowledgement.

Speaker 6 (29:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
I think Leah Fakiarra should have done it. I mean,
she is the leader of the Northern Territory and she
should at such a big and important event, at a
national event, she should have acknowledged the Lara Kie people.
We've seen Richard Fijo come out absolutely scathing Lea about
her not acknowledging the traditional owners. I think it's just

(29:58):
disappointing that this is the converse that we're having when
we've got other issues in the community, such as cost
of living, such as crime we've just been talking about,
and yet this is the main conversation. Leah has chosen
to get national headlines on this and become divisive across
the community. As a leader, you need to bring people together.

(30:19):
You need to bring people together, and that's something she.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Has well well.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
And to be fair, like to be fair, the only
reason I got onto the story was because Manuel Brown
and Justine Davis and Richard had posted about it on Facebook.
That's that's how I knew it had happened. I wasn't there,
and I didn't like I was there, but I didn't
even pick up on it at the time. But then
I subsequently saw a post from Manuel Brown having a

(30:45):
crack over it, and that's that's where the story came from.

Speaker 4 (30:49):
So yeah, because Maniel Brown understands the significance of it,
and you know, it's Manuel Brown and I and other members.
We don't just do it now because we're politicians were
at our whole life. It's a protocol that you do
that you take on and yeah, no, sure, respect She's
being disrespectful, is what the issues.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
No, I was just responding to your point about her
making it a national story or whatever. I just think
it was the criticism of it that.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Brought your attention that then ended up being something that
gets covered, because that's the thing if you're not there
and if you you know, if you haven't actually seen it,
like I wasn't at the bombing of Dawn events, so
I didn't realize that it had happened. But look, I
do take on board, Duran, the point that you're making
that there's lots of other things on the agenda, lots
of other very important things. So we're going to take
a very quick break and when we come back, we
are going to talk about those you're listening to mix

(31:40):
one O four ninees three sixty. You are listening to
mix one O four nines three sixty in the studio bill. Yeah,
Matt Cunningham and Duran Young. Now we know that we've
been speaking for weeks about the concerns being raised by
correction stuff when it comes to these legislative changes that
were passed in Parliament enabling private corrections private contractors, I

(32:01):
should say, to be utilized and officers from interstate to
be surged in. Now we know that we learned sort
of towards the end of last week and early this
week that corrections workers then overwhelmingly had a vote of
no confidence for the Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley, calling for
an immediate dismissal of him. On Friday, late Friday last week,

(32:23):
we learned the United Workers Union had released the results
of their no confidence vote, which said ninety eight percent
of workers no longer trusted the leadership of the territory's
prison system. That poll of five hundred and nineteen correctional
officers eighty seven percent of the union membership found only
two percent said they still believed in the leadership of

(32:44):
mister Varley. Now, what was interesting, Bill, is they didn't
deliver that result, as I understand it, to the Corrections
Minister Jered Maylee. They delivered it to you.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Well, actually not quite, Katie.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Converge on your office.

Speaker 5 (32:58):
Yeah, they popped in the mind office in ol Springs.
So because I've seen I read the NT news articles
saying they delivered it to me, he said, well, hang on,
I'm in Darwin it's a bit hard. I didn't see
anyone pop up my doorstep in Darwin.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
But hey, look.

Speaker 5 (33:12):
The amount of no confidence motions I think i've seen
in my using corrections. I'd probably need a couple of
arms and more fingers to count them.

Speaker 4 (33:18):
Right.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Every time.

Speaker 5 (33:21):
Management within Corrections does something that the union don't like,
the first thing they tend to.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Do is a vaute of no confidence. I think there
was a couple.

Speaker 5 (33:27):
Thrown around about me when I was a general manager
in Al Springs. I know that my colleagues had votes
of no confidence. Previous commissioners had votes of no confidence.
So every time management or senior management Corrections does something
that the union don't agree with, the first port of
call is a vaute of no confidence. I've got I've
got complete confidence in Matt Valley, the commissioner. He's doing

(33:50):
a good job under some very very trying conditions. He's
trying to actually help correctional officers out. Now I'm the
first person to stick their hand up and say, if
you try to bring security guards inside them able to
run it, you can't do that. And I'm been telling
my colleagues that don't do that. This is not what's
not what's been put forward. These are suitably trained staff

(34:10):
who have to probably meet the criteria certificate three to
come in and assist corrections because corrections for months. And
all my mates in our springs who probably don't like
me very much at the moment, but anyway, former mates
have been saying for so long, we're short staff, we're overwork,
the situation is dangerouscause we don't have enough staff. Or
here's a way to get some staff in to help

(34:31):
you out, to provide a safer work environment and give
you a little bit of reprieve. And they're saying, oh jeez,
now we don't we don't want to.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
Give it a chance. Bell like, do they just need
to give it a bit of time? What do you reckon?
I mean, you've worked in the system. The rest of
us have it.

Speaker 5 (34:44):
I said in the speech in Parliament the other week,
because I heard all these people stand up and all
of a sudden they're all experts in corrections, and I've
got I've got a bit grumpy about that. Until you've
been on the cole FA short staff with a couple
of hundreds of looking after hundreds of prisoners. You don't
get to stand up in become an expert on corrections.
If I had the opportunity to get extra staff in
from wherever it happened to be back in the day,

(35:06):
to give the officers some reprieve and make the workplace safer,
I would have done it.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
We've tried to.

Speaker 5 (35:12):
Do things over the years, and the unions I've always
opposed it. It seems I want the cake and I
want to eat it too. Why can't we find the stuff? Like,
we can't recruit the staff that we know? How many
staff short are we?

Speaker 3 (35:23):
I know talking to Scott Menan a couple of years ago,
he was like, we're seventy short, and he went to
the Government of the day with a proposal to recruit
seventy extra and got knocked on the head butt.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yeah, and even in our springs, I know that they're
up to sixty short just recently. That's talking to people
on the ground.

Speaker 5 (35:36):
Look, there was some things didn't happen for a little
while within when corrections was under Attorney Generals. They didn't
recruit for a period of time because they're using some
wrong numbers at the end of the day, and that
put directions behind the eight ball on recruitment. We've seen
increasing prison numbers, which means you have to recruit. And
I fought for years to get standardized recruitment happening every year.
We knew what attrition was, we knew that we had

(35:58):
to recruit x amount per year, but couldn't get that
over the line back.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
In the day.

Speaker 5 (36:02):
And now we're in a position where they're scrambling to recruit,
and now they're back to back recruiting is you've got
to recruit to your new numbers, and then you've got
to recruit to deal with the attrition, and then you've
got to recruit to your short fall. And to do
how long do you have to train for It's three
months three months of training, nearly three months of training,
so you've got to back to back to back to

(36:22):
back to back to back recruit.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
You paid while you train?

Speaker 5 (36:25):
Yeah, of course, yeah, you're not getting a full wage
while you trained. I'll tell you what the wage while
you're on tryinget.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
What do you get?

Speaker 3 (36:30):
How much do you get paid once?

Speaker 5 (36:31):
You don't think you get the consolidated allowance while you're
in training, but once you come off the training course
and go into the job, you get the consolid Allowanceers
I think it's about thirty six or thirty seven percent now, so.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
The wages it take you up to what one hundred
grand I.

Speaker 5 (36:46):
Think the guys are on over eighty eighty five.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
I think for I'd have to go back and check.
I'm not sure anymore.

Speaker 5 (36:52):
But the wages now for correctional officers in the territory,
they were probably some of the worst.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
In the country.

Speaker 5 (36:57):
I think we're back here up towards the in the
country and we need to do that to get people
to come here. But we need to get people to
come to the terror you want to work. Lots of
want to come to Darwen and work. Sadly, we're not
seeing too many people want to come to Ali Springs,
which is unfortunate. But we've got the opportunity now to
see a workforce to come in to provide that little
bit of a reprieve and pick up some of those

(37:19):
lower level jobs the prison offices are doing, so we
can keep those prison officers on the coal face where
they need to be, those highly trained people dealing with
prisoners and having other people out doing some of those
escort works.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
So the escorts is the main thing that you're looking
to outsource is that the idea you've got someone like
gfours to do the escort.

Speaker 5 (37:35):
Yeah, and look, it happens in other states and I've
seen it in WA and other states where it has worked. Look,
they still have their problems, but the same as corrections,
they have their problems doing escorts. So it works in
other states. The capacity is there now to do it.
But it's also working with police too, So it's not
just corrections, it's also to pick up some of that
police movement as well, and that of course Freese police

(37:58):
up to keep them on the ground and the cole
face doing what they need to do as well.

Speaker 4 (38:03):
Oh yeah, look, I think this issue runs deeper than
the Commissioner himself. We know that when this was first proposed,
Jared Maylee, the Minister at the time, refused to meet
with the corrections officers. And that's while we're in the
bungle we're in now. I find it quite concerning that
Bill Yarn, the Minister, is saying that you know, you're

(38:24):
not the experts here, but yet this is a correction
officers coming out and ninety eight percent of saying they
don't have confidence in this process and privatize aiding, privatizing
our correction officers. Leaf Nokiara and twenty eighteen came out
and put a statement out herself saying that privatization of
correction officers is unsafe and dangerous. Yet here she is

(38:46):
coming back to say, oh, you know we're going to
we've passed these laws and it's okay now. So she's
changed a tune again. But what's really concerning is the
Minister again not meeting with correction officers to hear their
concerns directly.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
I was at a press conference this week where he
said he did meet with the union this week.

Speaker 6 (39:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
I was wondering whether it's going to be a bit ice.

Speaker 4 (39:06):
But that was that was after the fact that bill
has gone through. I mean that's we you know, that
should have been done well and truly before that, I mean,
it's all well and good to go after it, you.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Know, and there's been some slanging and then they met
with each other. I thought that would have been an
interesting one.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
Was a meaning between the Chief Justice and the Attorney
General yesterday.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
I would have loved to have been a fly on
the wall for that one.

Speaker 5 (39:28):
We're in this position with corrections, okay, because of the
mismanaging corrections for the last eight years, there hasn't been
that investment in corrections. And I've said it time and
time and time again. For every buck you invest in.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Police, you got to invest a buck fifty in your
justice system.

Speaker 6 (39:41):
Well that's not true.

Speaker 4 (39:42):
Round a million dollars have invested in the last budget
into correction that they actually through, come through and rush
these pieces.

Speaker 5 (39:54):
I've seen what labor did to the budget and corrections.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
They cut the guts out of it, they shucked and
industries all the good work that we did. Labor got
in and just.

Speaker 4 (40:03):
Creed one hundred million dollars was put into the budget
last year into corrections, and then you've come in and
rushed through the legislation because the implications for right years, No.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
They're going to take a bit of a break. Well,
if you've just joined us, you've missed a very busy
hour in the studio is of course bill Ya, Matt Cunningham,
and Duran Young. And before we wrap up for this morning,
health has indeed been on the agenda this week. We
know the federal government making the announcement to overhaul Medicare.
We also know though that it was then announced throughout

(40:36):
the week after that big announcement that health insurance, well,
if you've got if you've got private health insurance, you're
going to see your premiums jump up by an average
of three point seventy three percent from April one. A
lot of people, if you live in the Northern Territory
potentially questioning exactly what that's going to mean for you.
Given the fact that last week we talked about the

(40:56):
maternity services at Darwin Private Hospital and the issues we've
got there, we now know that maternity services at the
hospital have been extended for a little bit longer, So
they're now going to stay open until June six, meaning
meaning forty five of those one hundred and fourteen families
impacted by the original closure in mid April will now

(41:18):
be able to have their babies at the Darwin Private Look,
I think it's safe to say that that it's a
bit of a shambles the private health at this point
in time.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
We're paying more and getting less, is what you're telling.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
That's exactly what I'm saying, Yes to.

Speaker 5 (41:32):
Put it, And I don't think we're the line, certainly
not the line ranges here in the territory. It's happening
right across the country, and it's unfortunate seeing those maternity
services closing down here. But at LASA NT your Health
is now stepping up to pick up that gap for
those families, which is good to say. I'm glad to
hear that the private is going to stay open for
a little bit longer to give some surty to those families.

(41:55):
But yeah, it's good to see Territory Health stepping into
pick up.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
What's the justification for the seven plus percent increase? Inflation's
at two point five percent at the moment, and health
insured with other insurances. My home insurance went up like
thirty percent last years astronomical.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Well, and this is I think what's going to be
a really big issue, as everyone's saying for the federal
election is you know, we're all thinking, all right, is
the election going to be called because that rate cut
had happened, But that rate cut really isn't actually outweighing
all the other living expenses that continue to go up.

Speaker 5 (42:25):
We're soon to drop an hour and that interest rate,
but this is the other cost living expenses continue to climb.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Yeah, yeah, the services don't feel like they're getting better.
You know, what you're paying for doesn't feel like it's
actually getting any better, which I think is the real
kick in the guts. But anyway, what day do we
reckon this federal elections? When's it going to happen? I
think I asked you this last week too, Matt Well.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
I think you know predictions are unwise, especially about the future,
but it's looking more and more likely.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
I'll give you.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
I'll give you too. They'll both be wrong, I promise
his prediction. What prediction One is that the government will
hand down the budget and won't go to the polls
until May. I think they think they're in trouble and
they want another rate cut and potentially a few budget sweetness.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
So there you go.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
But that that is based on nothing. My other prediction
is that sometime between now and the federal election, during
the federal election campaign, there will be a major announcement
reather Darwin Port. You saw Luke Gosling had a big
op ed in the paper on Monday. I reckon the
deal will get done to somehow buy the port, return
the port something because and it'll be largely I mean,

(43:33):
there's security reasons behind it, but it'll be largely political
reasons because labor will know that that'll play very well
for them in this election, which they are.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Worried about losing.

Speaker 5 (43:42):
And it's funny, Luke's been pretty quiet on the Port
for lots of years, and all of a sudden he's.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Out to be fair.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
He's always he's always been harkish on the Port. He's
always said it was a bad deal, and he's always
said it to but he's absolutely on the front foot.

Speaker 5 (43:55):
We're doing a lot of work in that space at
the moment because we've got to make sure we're getting
the best deal for people of territory on that.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
So, yeah, absolutely, I've been on it.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Since before December, working.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
For what are you working on getting it back?

Speaker 5 (44:07):
Well, what's going on on the port in particular, once
we found out that there's issues around that breach of
a bond one hundred and ten million dollar bond and
what that actually means as far as debt, solvency and
all sorts of other things going. So I've been in
discussion with the federal government since December last year on
this and the federal governor actually working with us on

(44:27):
those issues around the Port. I can't say too much because,
as you probably know, it's fairly confidential, but yeah, we.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
Go for an and a half an hour.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Will We've been working on this for a while.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
We are going to have to wrap up. Sorry, Gang
Daran Young, Labour's deputy opposition leader. Great to have you
in the studio, mate, Thank.

Speaker 4 (44:46):
You, Thank you Katie and to your listeners and also
to Matt and Bill as well.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
It's been a good morning. Matt cunning home from Sky News.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
Thank you to Turan and as well.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah, I thank you everybody that's here as well. Everybody.

Speaker 5 (45:02):
Enjoy your weekend. What's going on and Dale on this weekend,
so get out and enjoy that sort of half nice
weather while you can.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Good stuff. Good on you all, Thanks so much for
joining us this morning on the week that was