Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We know last week the government announced an independent inquiry
into recent senior police recruitments. That inquiry is going to
be facilitated through the Office of the Commissioner for Public
Employment and led by the Honorable Acting Justice Alan blow Ao.
Now joining me in the studio is the Chief Minister
of the Northern Territory, Lea Fanocchiaro. Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Good morning Katie, in to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, Chief Minister,
why is this review required in your eyes?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
So, what happened overse in the fallout of the KA
co Operation Apollo report and obviously Police Commissioner Murphy identifying
himself at that time. In Commissioner Murphy's comments, he sort
of talked about executive recruitment and then we had the
Northern Territory Police Association come out and cast a cloud
(00:51):
over the validity of all of those promotions from superintendent
up and so it's very very important. I mean it's
no secret law and order is the number one priority
of most people, Katie is certainly is of our government
and we can't have a strong police force if there's
doubt over the leadership. So in an important step to
create confidence and give certainty not just to the rank
(01:14):
and file, but also to the people in those positions.
We've initiated this independent inquiry with Justice Blow. He's a
former Chief Justice of the Tasmanian Supreme Court and received
his Order of Australia for you know, professional standards, so
he's very well equipped. This inquiry will be done with
the support of Public Public Employment Commissioner, which is appropriate
(01:38):
and basically it is it is designed to explore how
their requitments were done, whether they were done validly, whether
they were done in accordance with the protocols and codes
of ethics, and whether they were merit based.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
What if they're not.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, so that's a matter for Justice Blow.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I mean, he's got to undertake this inquiry and you know,
provide the steps going. We've also made the terms of
reference broad enough that if he believes there's other issues
or something else comes up, then he can report.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I've committed to tabling.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
That report in Parliament, so it will be a very
open process and we've just got to let it run
its course.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Now I know I'm asking you to delve into what
if I mean, the fact is here obviously, will he
will provide that information, but then what happens next is
going to fall upon you as the Police Minister and
as the Chief Minister.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Are you concerned that.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
There could be people in positions that shouldn't be or
is this more a matter of trying to clear the
air well.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I mean, at the end of the day, we've had
serious concerns raised by the NTPA that they certainly seem
to believe that this needed to be done and there
could be problems.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
It's not my job to second guess or have a
crack at it. You know.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Certainly, everyone I've worked with has been incredibly professional and
hard working and this is taking a toll on them
as much as the rank and file. So the best
thing I can do is draw it all tore closed
one way or the other. And that's why Justice Blower
is going to undertake this important work and it'll be
what it'll be.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Where are things that with the termination process for Michael Murphy, yep.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
So that process is continuing, Katie, And if and when
I've got more to say, I certainly.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I mean he's lawyered up the Northern Territory News reporting
that he's secured the services of a top Australian lawyer
Morris Blackburn principal lawyer Josh Bornstein. Are you concerned that
it may not be as clear cut as originally thought?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Oh, look, he's perfectly entitled to have legal representation and
as I've always said with the community, this is a process.
He has certain entitlements. We talked about the six months
payment and all of those types of things. So there's
you know, it is a process. It might not be
a pretty one, Katie, but there's a process there, and
we've just got to stay the course.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I mean, many have been drawing comparisons between the Murphy
situation and the Gwynn situation.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Should I know you and.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I have discussed this to some degree previously. She got
prosecuted and Murphy got well an anonymized report. Is that consistent?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
So, and I can see how people are drawing comparisons,
and I'm not saying up that they're not, but I
guess the processes were different. So one was in an
ICAC investigation, the other ended up being a police investigation.
One ended up in the courts, and obviously one has
ended up in an icc process.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
But clearly one probably shouldn't have actually ended up a
police investigation.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Well, and this has obviously been the subject of much
discussion over many many years, Katie, while all of it
was obviously unfolding, and now it's sort of thrown it
back into the spotlight, and so you know, these issues
continued to go on. But ultimately I'm doing everything I
can to give confidence and certainty to our police because
I need them focused on their everyday job and that's
(04:54):
keeping people safe.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I mean, just on that situation though, with Colin gwyn
the former Children's Commissioner, should there be an should I
CACK look into that?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
And they can absolutely the ICIC. You know, there's no
requirement for me to say I CAC should do something
that can they can undertake it?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Should well, I mean, look I could.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Does it make any difference? Probably not. Have they already
looked at it?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I don't know. So these are all questions.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
The difference in terms of confidence.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
From the Northern Territory public that you know that there's
not which once a get.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Seople and I haven't ruled out and in inquiry into that,
so I haven't ruled that out. Clearly, We've got a
few other things on the boil at the moment Katie, So,
you know, one step at a time. I haven't ruled
that out, but I just want to give confidence to
the community that if someone had something to say or
concern about that those processes are there and over the
(05:53):
last four years, the k could have looked at it.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Chief Minister, do you plan to table the i CAAC
report into the Michael Murphy situation in Parliament this week?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, that is certainly my intention. I'm waiting to hear
back from the ICACK about whether I can, so I'm
certainly hoping to have that feedback today because Parliament starts tomorrow.
If that takes a bit longer, then you know, that's
out of my hands.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
But it's certainly my intention.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
What would prevent the ICAC from allowing that?
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Do you think?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
It's around the way they collect evidence and the fact
that they can compel people. I force people to, you know,
disclose information that a court or another process wouldn't allow
them to do. So, it's just about making sure that
what is being made public is information that's available to
be made public. And that's not my call. That is
one hundred percent the i caack's call. So you know,
(06:46):
my hands are still tied to some extent, it is
my intention. I've written to the ey CACK about that,
and now I just have to wait to see what
they come back with. Why do you reckon it should
be tabled? Well, it's in the public interest. I mean,
people are very bamboo, including myself, about the entire process.
I have to say, you know, why do a report
and then put out a public statement if it's meant
(07:08):
to be confidential? And I just think the IK can't
have their cake and eat it too on this. Ye
if they felt like the information was so confidential, then
why did they put out the statement? Because of course
it asked the inevitable question of who, what, when, where?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Why?
Speaker 3 (07:23):
So I think they've got to be more responsible. If
they felt that it was fine to put out the statement,
then why is it not fine to put out the report?
So I guess it's just it's just confusing. I feel
like you can't have it both ways.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Well, I do think it's important that people have an
understanding of the context potentially around that report as well,
you know, But and also I mean even for Michael Murphy, Yeah,
I think surely he deserves that bit of context. It
may find that it actually I don't I don't know.
I don't actually know what it's gonna say.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Have you seen it?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yeah, yep, I've seen it. So and I'm obviously still
bound to all of their provisions. So it's just it's really.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Messy, Katie. Again, we've flagged in IICQ.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
You know, there's certainly work that needs to be done
in that i CAG space.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
And this is one hell of a mess.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I mean, you know, from the outside looking in, it
seems like, yes, it is a bit of a mess.
I mean, you've got a situation where you think there
needs to be some.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Further review into the ICAK.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
You obviously think there needs to be a review, and
you've got this underway now into the police executive and
the hiring that's happened since twenty twenty three. I mean,
you've just said you're not ruling out an inquiry then
into the Colleen Win situation. It's a lot and rightly so,
I think a lot of people in the public will
(08:43):
be going, yeah, fair call. We need to make sure
that everything is happening the way that we expect it
to happen. But what impact do you think all of
this is having on the Northern Territory police force right
now when they are indeed, you know, they are indeed
the agency that is large carrying out a lot of
the government's agenda when it comes to the issues of crime.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
And that's my greatest concern in all of this, Katie.
You know, things have to be done properly and delicately.
I've been methodically working through this. I'm extremely conscious of
the impact this is having on the frontline, because the
last thing anyone wants to see is low morale.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Again. I mean, Katie, we can be really proud.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
In six months, we've increased police powers, We've got the
lowest attrition rate since twenty nineteen. Already just six months
in morale is starting to increase. They police are feeling
heard and supported. We've got great new laws coming through
that they're the frontline are working with us on. And
so this is really awful for this to happen. It
(09:44):
is an awful thing, and I just have been encouraging
them and trying my very best to say this is
about certainty and clarity going forward, and you know, what
needs to be done will be done, but we've got
to make sure we're supporting the frontline to be out
there catching bad guys as I always Katie, because that's
what people want. And with five hundred more people in
prison since the August election, that's what they've been doing.
(10:06):
And they're doing a great job. And I just thank
them so much for caring so much about community safety.
You know, they leave their family every day to go
and protect ours, and you know it's an incredible sacrifice
they make.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Chief Minister just very quickly back on the review that's
been conducted by Acting Justice Alan Blow. Is it going
to be made public?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yes, so Old Tamelin in Parliament and then then that
will be public here.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Okay, let's move along and talk about the Territory Coordinator
Bill and also the work that the government is going
to be announcing today when it comes to the economic
strategy for this year. First off with the Territory Coordinator Bill.
The Northern Territory's four Land councils have united to call
for the Territory Coordinator Bill to be dumped. They say
that the bill excludes Aboriginal people from involvement in its
(10:53):
development decisions on their traditional lands and prevents them from
protecting their land and culture. Are you excluding Aboriginal people?
As saying their pressure.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Release No, I don't know where this comes from, Katie.
I think sometimes it's activism for activism's sake. This has
been so broadly consulted, I mean dating back to October.
I mean we literally won the election at the end
of August, and by October we were out fully consulting
with the public. So it's been through that process. We've
had five hundred submissions. I even sent it to the
(11:25):
Legislative Scrutiny Committee to have a bipartisan look at Katie.
So this has done the hard yards of being tested
and pushed and examined, and tomorrow in Parliament it will
further be examined and I look forward to that robust
debate that we'll undoubtedly have. But no, it doesn't, Katie.
We've been very clear about the protections it has for
Aboriginal land and traditional owners, and anyone who says otherwise
(11:47):
is just causing trouble.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
So is it going to pass this week?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I certainly hope. So that's the intention. Yeah, we'll be
bringing it on tomorrow. I'm expecting a very very long night.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
I know the opposition and independent members have a range
of questions and I'm very open to that. I'm ready
for a midnight or if it has to be, Katie.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
So that's fine.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I want us to be able to go through the
bill and ultimately it'll be put to the Parliament and
I certainly hope it's law by the end of the week.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Now I know tomorrow you're also set to unveil the
government's economic strategy for this year. How are you going
to get things moving in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
We know that crime is the number one issue, but
also to support crime, we have to rebuild the economy.
So there are two big focuses. Because we don't want
people leaving the territory.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
We want people to come.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
So we've got to have that lifestyle piece which is
intrinsically linked with crime, which means we need a strong
economy to have jobs, opportunity and money to pay for
all the things that we need, all of the services.
So tomorrow I'll be launching our rebuilding the Economy's strategy,
which is very exciting. It will support the public service
to make sure they're staying true to that strategy and
(12:56):
also for the private sector to understand how they can
get involve and where our mind is at. But basically
it's about getting back to basics, playing to our key strengths.
I'll outline our KPIs like what does success look like?
And that's something quite a few people have been asking
over the last six months, what does economic success look like?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
So I won't say that now, but I will announce
it tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So it's exciting and it's basically about making sure everything
we do is put through a prism that's going to
yield the biggest bang for bark for territories. And I
have to say you mentioned the gst win for that
was certainly welcome because boy, oh boy, do we have
a lot of Decadie.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
It's no end insight on that we do.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
And look, a large part of the discussion I think
about getting the territory moving has indeed focused on the
fact that we do need to get a handle on crime.
I'm just one of our listeners has just made me
aware of an article running on the ABC over the weekend,
and it is in relation to some comments made by
a judge urging a radical rethink of the Northern territories
(13:57):
growing crime and prison problem. To this report in the ABC,
in the Northern Territory, of course, where imprisonment rates surpass
even those of the United States. One judge is calling
for a radical rethink. Presiding over the worst categories of
offending in the Northern Territory, Supreme Court Judge Jenny Blocklin
has been afforded a well She's been afforded a unique
(14:19):
view of how justice is served, and her estimates were sobering.
She has told a lecture at Charles Darwin University that
imprisonment and the significant use of it in Australia and
the Northern Territory is a wicked problem for.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
Many of us.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
She's continued by saying, instead of being a deterrent, she said,
it appeared to drive repeat offending. What do you make
of those comments?
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Look, I think it's fine to, you know, sit back
and make those comments. But at the end of the day,
we've just come out of a decade of a labor
government who's waded down the laws, failed to build new
prison infrastructure, left criminals on the street to perpetrate violence
on others, overseeing eighty two percent increase in DV. So
I would argue the exact opposite. We tried the let's
(15:05):
cuddle everyone to make them good people approach, and you
know what, it didn't work. That's why I'm the Chief Minister, Katie.
So you know, people can commentate and talk. At the
end of the day, prison isn't a great place. It
doesn't deliver great outcomes. But you know what, if you
commit a crime, that's where you're going to live. And
we make no apologies for that.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I mean, obviously the justice, you know, justice system needs
to be quite there, needs to be that real separation
of powers. But are you concerned that you have got
judges presiding over cases where they don't feel as though
prison is the best option when it is against a
lot of members of the community's expectations.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
We we do have a system where people, you know,
largely the community feel to some extent the judiciary is
at a stepwi community expectation. And that's fine, and that's
happened for forever. My job and as law makers we're
the ones who set those parameters. So that's why we
you know, we've got laws this way about giving police
better powers to enter premises where we've got some DV
(16:04):
stuff coming up, all sorts of things happening. So our
job is to make sure the courts have the right framework.
Their job is to interpret the law deliver the outcome.
But I have to say, Katie, you know, at the
end of the day, if you don't do the wrong thing,
you've got nothing to worry about. And we're in a
sort of crisis situation with corrections at the moment where
we are not able to put as much energy into
(16:25):
rehabilitation as we like right now. But we've brought online
five hundred more beds since August last year, five hundred.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
It's enormous.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
We have taken those that backlog of prisoners out of
Palmerstan and Catherine and Alice Springs watchhouses. Police are now
solely running watchhouses.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Again.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
These are huge achievements.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I mean, we haven't ever seen a prospect of this
under labor and even for us, you know, I was
I mean, that was my sole objective, or a big
part of my objective, was to get prisoners out of watchhouses.
And to think we've done it in six months is unbelievable.
And of course police keep filling it back up, and
that's what we want them to do. So it's a
bit of a never ending circle. But you know, we're
(17:08):
getting their Katie, and then once we can start delivering
that important rehab and getting people working while they're in prison.
We'll start to see better outcomes.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Chief Minister, a really quick listener question. Can you please
ask the CLP person why it is that the prices
for alcohol haven't gone back to the floor price implemented
by labor twice the price of the same isham in
South Australia, Queensland and Wy That one from Emin Darwin.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, and I wonder if that's cask wine or so.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
We had the Hospitality and Tea come out a few
months ago saying that because the alcohol taxes had increase
so much, there probably isn't actually a reduction in price
anymore on most products. But I did think that cask
wine was one that didn't get impacted by that. So
you know, we can encourage retailers to drop their price
back down, but at the end of the day, they
(17:56):
have to do it. And that was part of the
failure of the system is government wasn't collecting that additional revenue.
It was the bottle shops. So they're probably hooked on
it at m and don't want to pay it for it.
But we're certainly keen to see if there's savings to.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Be made, they should be passed.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
On, Chief Minister, we will leave it there.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I know you do need to get away and head
to the state funeral that is being held to one
of the life and legacy of former Northern Territory Parliamentarian,
the Honorable Grant tambling Am today. So look, I really
appreciate your time, Thank you for joining us in the studio.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Thanks everyone, take care you too.
We know last week the government announced an independent inquiry
into recent senior police recruitments. That inquiry is going to
be facilitated through the Office of the Commissioner for Public
Employment and led by the Honorable Acting Justice Alan blow Ao.
Now joining me in the studio is the Chief Minister
of the Northern Territory, Lea Fanocchiaro. Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Good morning Katie, in to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, Chief Minister,
why is this review required in your eyes?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
So, what happened overse in the fallout of the KA
co Operation Apollo report and obviously Police Commissioner Murphy identifying
himself at that time. In Commissioner Murphy's comments, he sort
of talked about executive recruitment and then we had the
Northern Territory Police Association come out and cast a cloud
(00:51):
over the validity of all of those promotions from superintendent
up and so it's very very important. I mean it's
no secret law and order is the number one priority
of most people, Katie is certainly is of our government
and we can't have a strong police force if there's
doubt over the leadership. So in an important step to
create confidence and give certainty not just to the rank
(01:14):
and file, but also to the people in those positions.
We've initiated this independent inquiry with Justice Blow. He's a
former Chief Justice of the Tasmanian Supreme Court and received
his Order of Australia for you know, professional standards, so
he's very well equipped. This inquiry will be done with
the support of Public Public Employment Commissioner, which is appropriate
(01:38):
and basically it is it is designed to explore how
their requitments were done, whether they were done validly, whether
they were done in accordance with the protocols and codes
of ethics, and whether they were merit based.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
What if they're not.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, so that's a matter for Justice Blow.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I mean, he's got to undertake this inquiry and you know,
provide the steps going. We've also made the terms of
reference broad enough that if he believes there's other issues
or something else comes up, then he can report.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I've committed to tabling.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
That report in Parliament, so it will be a very
open process and we've just got to let it run
its course.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Now I know I'm asking you to delve into what
if I mean, the fact is here obviously, will he
will provide that information, but then what happens next is
going to fall upon you as the Police Minister and
as the Chief Minister.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Are you concerned that.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
There could be people in positions that shouldn't be or
is this more a matter of trying to clear the
air well.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I mean, at the end of the day, we've had
serious concerns raised by the NTPA that they certainly seem
to believe that this needed to be done and there
could be problems.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
It's not my job to second guess or have a
crack at it. You know.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Certainly, everyone I've worked with has been incredibly professional and
hard working and this is taking a toll on them
as much as the rank and file. So the best
thing I can do is draw it all tore closed
one way or the other. And that's why Justice Blower
is going to undertake this important work and it'll be
what it'll be.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Where are things that with the termination process for Michael Murphy, yep.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
So that process is continuing, Katie, And if and when
I've got more to say, I certainly.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I mean he's lawyered up the Northern Territory News reporting
that he's secured the services of a top Australian lawyer
Morris Blackburn principal lawyer Josh Bornstein. Are you concerned that
it may not be as clear cut as originally thought?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Oh, look, he's perfectly entitled to have legal representation and
as I've always said with the community, this is a process.
He has certain entitlements. We talked about the six months
payment and all of those types of things. So there's
you know, it is a process. It might not be
a pretty one, Katie, but there's a process there, and
we've just got to stay the course.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I mean, many have been drawing comparisons between the Murphy
situation and the Gwynn situation.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Should I know you and.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I have discussed this to some degree previously. She got
prosecuted and Murphy got well an anonymized report. Is that consistent?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
So, and I can see how people are drawing comparisons,
and I'm not saying up that they're not, but I
guess the processes were different. So one was in an
ICAC investigation, the other ended up being a police investigation.
One ended up in the courts, and obviously one has
ended up in an icc process.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
But clearly one probably shouldn't have actually ended up a
police investigation.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Well, and this has obviously been the subject of much
discussion over many many years, Katie, while all of it
was obviously unfolding, and now it's sort of thrown it
back into the spotlight, and so you know, these issues
continued to go on. But ultimately I'm doing everything I
can to give confidence and certainty to our police because
I need them focused on their everyday job and that's
(04:54):
keeping people safe.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I mean, just on that situation though, with Colin gwyn
the former Children's Commissioner, should there be an should I
CACK look into that?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
And they can absolutely the ICIC. You know, there's no
requirement for me to say I CAC should do something
that can they can undertake it?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Should well, I mean, look I could.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Does it make any difference? Probably not. Have they already
looked at it?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I don't know. So these are all questions.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
The difference in terms of confidence.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
From the Northern Territory public that you know that there's
not which once a get.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Seople and I haven't ruled out and in inquiry into that,
so I haven't ruled that out. Clearly, We've got a
few other things on the boil at the moment Katie, So,
you know, one step at a time. I haven't ruled
that out, but I just want to give confidence to
the community that if someone had something to say or
concern about that those processes are there and over the
(05:53):
last four years, the k could have looked at it.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Chief Minister, do you plan to table the i CAAC
report into the Michael Murphy situation in Parliament this week?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, that is certainly my intention. I'm waiting to hear
back from the ICACK about whether I can, so I'm
certainly hoping to have that feedback today because Parliament starts tomorrow.
If that takes a bit longer, then you know, that's
out of my hands.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
But it's certainly my intention.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
What would prevent the ICAC from allowing that?
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Do you think?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
It's around the way they collect evidence and the fact
that they can compel people. I force people to, you know,
disclose information that a court or another process wouldn't allow
them to do. So, it's just about making sure that
what is being made public is information that's available to
be made public. And that's not my call. That is
one hundred percent the i caack's call. So you know,
(06:46):
my hands are still tied to some extent, it is
my intention. I've written to the ey CACK about that,
and now I just have to wait to see what
they come back with. Why do you reckon it should
be tabled? Well, it's in the public interest. I mean,
people are very bamboo, including myself, about the entire process.
I have to say, you know, why do a report
and then put out a public statement if it's meant
(07:08):
to be confidential? And I just think the IK can't
have their cake and eat it too on this. Ye
if they felt like the information was so confidential, then
why did they put out the statement? Because of course
it asked the inevitable question of who, what, when, where?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Why?
Speaker 3 (07:23):
So I think they've got to be more responsible. If
they felt that it was fine to put out the statement,
then why is it not fine to put out the report?
So I guess it's just it's just confusing. I feel
like you can't have it both ways.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Well, I do think it's important that people have an
understanding of the context potentially around that report as well,
you know, But and also I mean even for Michael Murphy, Yeah,
I think surely he deserves that bit of context. It
may find that it actually I don't I don't know.
I don't actually know what it's gonna say.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Have you seen it?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yeah, yep, I've seen it. So and I'm obviously still
bound to all of their provisions. So it's just it's really.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Messy, Katie. Again, we've flagged in IICQ.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
You know, there's certainly work that needs to be done
in that i CAG space.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
And this is one hell of a mess.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I mean, you know, from the outside looking in, it
seems like, yes, it is a bit of a mess.
I mean, you've got a situation where you think there
needs to be some.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Further review into the ICAK.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
You obviously think there needs to be a review, and
you've got this underway now into the police executive and
the hiring that's happened since twenty twenty three. I mean,
you've just said you're not ruling out an inquiry then
into the Colleen Win situation. It's a lot and rightly so,
I think a lot of people in the public will
(08:43):
be going, yeah, fair call. We need to make sure
that everything is happening the way that we expect it
to happen. But what impact do you think all of
this is having on the Northern Territory police force right
now when they are indeed, you know, they are indeed
the agency that is large carrying out a lot of
the government's agenda when it comes to the issues of crime.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
And that's my greatest concern in all of this, Katie.
You know, things have to be done properly and delicately.
I've been methodically working through this. I'm extremely conscious of
the impact this is having on the frontline, because the
last thing anyone wants to see is low morale.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Again. I mean, Katie, we can be really proud.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
In six months, we've increased police powers, We've got the
lowest attrition rate since twenty nineteen. Already just six months
in morale is starting to increase. They police are feeling
heard and supported. We've got great new laws coming through
that they're the frontline are working with us on. And
so this is really awful for this to happen. It
(09:44):
is an awful thing, and I just have been encouraging
them and trying my very best to say this is
about certainty and clarity going forward, and you know, what
needs to be done will be done, but we've got
to make sure we're supporting the frontline to be out
there catching bad guys as I always Katie, because that's
what people want. And with five hundred more people in
prison since the August election, that's what they've been doing.
(10:06):
And they're doing a great job. And I just thank
them so much for caring so much about community safety.
You know, they leave their family every day to go
and protect ours, and you know it's an incredible sacrifice
they make.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Chief Minister just very quickly back on the review that's
been conducted by Acting Justice Alan Blow. Is it going
to be made public?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yes, so Old Tamelin in Parliament and then then that
will be public here.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Okay, let's move along and talk about the Territory Coordinator
Bill and also the work that the government is going
to be announcing today when it comes to the economic
strategy for this year. First off with the Territory Coordinator Bill.
The Northern Territory's four Land councils have united to call
for the Territory Coordinator Bill to be dumped. They say
that the bill excludes Aboriginal people from involvement in its
(10:53):
development decisions on their traditional lands and prevents them from
protecting their land and culture. Are you excluding Aboriginal people?
As saying their pressure.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Release No, I don't know where this comes from, Katie.
I think sometimes it's activism for activism's sake. This has
been so broadly consulted, I mean dating back to October.
I mean we literally won the election at the end
of August, and by October we were out fully consulting
with the public. So it's been through that process. We've
had five hundred submissions. I even sent it to the
(11:25):
Legislative Scrutiny Committee to have a bipartisan look at Katie.
So this has done the hard yards of being tested
and pushed and examined, and tomorrow in Parliament it will
further be examined and I look forward to that robust
debate that we'll undoubtedly have. But no, it doesn't, Katie.
We've been very clear about the protections it has for
Aboriginal land and traditional owners, and anyone who says otherwise
(11:47):
is just causing trouble.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
So is it going to pass this week?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I certainly hope. So that's the intention. Yeah, we'll be
bringing it on tomorrow. I'm expecting a very very long night.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
I know the opposition and independent members have a range
of questions and I'm very open to that. I'm ready
for a midnight or if it has to be, Katie.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
So that's fine.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I want us to be able to go through the
bill and ultimately it'll be put to the Parliament and
I certainly hope it's law by the end of the week.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Now I know tomorrow you're also set to unveil the
government's economic strategy for this year. How are you going
to get things moving in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
We know that crime is the number one issue, but
also to support crime, we have to rebuild the economy.
So there are two big focuses. Because we don't want
people leaving the territory.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
We want people to come.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
So we've got to have that lifestyle piece which is
intrinsically linked with crime, which means we need a strong
economy to have jobs, opportunity and money to pay for
all the things that we need, all of the services.
So tomorrow I'll be launching our rebuilding the Economy's strategy,
which is very exciting. It will support the public service
to make sure they're staying true to that strategy and
(12:56):
also for the private sector to understand how they can
get involve and where our mind is at. But basically
it's about getting back to basics, playing to our key strengths.
I'll outline our KPIs like what does success look like?
And that's something quite a few people have been asking
over the last six months, what does economic success look like?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
So I won't say that now, but I will announce
it tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So it's exciting and it's basically about making sure everything
we do is put through a prism that's going to
yield the biggest bang for bark for territories. And I
have to say you mentioned the gst win for that
was certainly welcome because boy, oh boy, do we have
a lot of Decadie.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
It's no end insight on that we do.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
And look, a large part of the discussion I think
about getting the territory moving has indeed focused on the
fact that we do need to get a handle on crime.
I'm just one of our listeners has just made me
aware of an article running on the ABC over the weekend,
and it is in relation to some comments made by
a judge urging a radical rethink of the Northern territories
(13:57):
growing crime and prison problem. To this report in the ABC,
in the Northern Territory, of course, where imprisonment rates surpass
even those of the United States. One judge is calling
for a radical rethink. Presiding over the worst categories of
offending in the Northern Territory, Supreme Court Judge Jenny Blocklin
has been afforded a well She's been afforded a unique
(14:19):
view of how justice is served, and her estimates were sobering.
She has told a lecture at Charles Darwin University that
imprisonment and the significant use of it in Australia and
the Northern Territory is a wicked problem for.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
Many of us.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
She's continued by saying, instead of being a deterrent, she said,
it appeared to drive repeat offending. What do you make
of those comments?
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Look, I think it's fine to, you know, sit back
and make those comments. But at the end of the day,
we've just come out of a decade of a labor
government who's waded down the laws, failed to build new
prison infrastructure, left criminals on the street to perpetrate violence
on others, overseeing eighty two percent increase in DV. So
I would argue the exact opposite. We tried the let's
(15:05):
cuddle everyone to make them good people approach, and you
know what, it didn't work. That's why I'm the Chief Minister, Katie.
So you know, people can commentate and talk. At the
end of the day, prison isn't a great place. It
doesn't deliver great outcomes. But you know what, if you
commit a crime, that's where you're going to live. And
we make no apologies for that.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I mean, obviously the justice, you know, justice system needs
to be quite there, needs to be that real separation
of powers. But are you concerned that you have got
judges presiding over cases where they don't feel as though
prison is the best option when it is against a
lot of members of the community's expectations.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
We we do have a system where people, you know,
largely the community feel to some extent the judiciary is
at a stepwi community expectation. And that's fine, and that's
happened for forever. My job and as law makers we're
the ones who set those parameters. So that's why we
you know, we've got laws this way about giving police
better powers to enter premises where we've got some DV
(16:04):
stuff coming up, all sorts of things happening. So our
job is to make sure the courts have the right framework.
Their job is to interpret the law deliver the outcome.
But I have to say, Katie, you know, at the
end of the day, if you don't do the wrong thing,
you've got nothing to worry about. And we're in a
sort of crisis situation with corrections at the moment where
we are not able to put as much energy into
(16:25):
rehabilitation as we like right now. But we've brought online
five hundred more beds since August last year, five hundred.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
It's enormous.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
We have taken those that backlog of prisoners out of
Palmerstan and Catherine and Alice Springs watchhouses. Police are now
solely running watchhouses.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Again.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
These are huge achievements.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I mean, we haven't ever seen a prospect of this
under labor and even for us, you know, I was
I mean, that was my sole objective, or a big
part of my objective, was to get prisoners out of watchhouses.
And to think we've done it in six months is unbelievable.
And of course police keep filling it back up, and
that's what we want them to do. So it's a
bit of a never ending circle. But you know, we're
(17:08):
getting their Katie, and then once we can start delivering
that important rehab and getting people working while they're in prison.
We'll start to see better outcomes.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Chief Minister, a really quick listener question. Can you please
ask the CLP person why it is that the prices
for alcohol haven't gone back to the floor price implemented
by labor twice the price of the same isham in
South Australia, Queensland and Wy That one from Emin Darwin.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, and I wonder if that's cask wine or so.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
We had the Hospitality and Tea come out a few
months ago saying that because the alcohol taxes had increase
so much, there probably isn't actually a reduction in price
anymore on most products. But I did think that cask
wine was one that didn't get impacted by that. So
you know, we can encourage retailers to drop their price
back down, but at the end of the day, they
(17:56):
have to do it. And that was part of the
failure of the system is government wasn't collecting that additional revenue.
It was the bottle shops. So they're probably hooked on
it at m and don't want to pay it for it.
But we're certainly keen to see if there's savings to.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Be made, they should be passed.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
On, Chief Minister, we will leave it there.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I know you do need to get away and head
to the state funeral that is being held to one
of the life and legacy of former Northern Territory Parliamentarian,
the Honorable Grant tambling Am today. So look, I really
appreciate your time, Thank you for joining us in the studio.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Thanks everyone, take care you too.
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