Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now we know. The Northern Territory government yesterday introduced the
(00:03):
Domestic and Family Violence and Victim's Legislation Amendment Bill to Parliament.
The bill proposes to make critical amendments to several domestic
and family Violence and Victims of Crime acts. It's touted
as reinstating domestic violence mandatory sentencing laws which Labor removed.
Now joining us on the line is the Attorney General
(00:24):
of the Northern Territory, Marie Claire Boothby. Good morning to you.
We seem to have a bit of an issue there
with our phone line for some reason. Let's see if
I can get that back up and running. I'm not
too sure what's going on. We will just try that
again once more. All right, good morning to you, Attorney General.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Good morning, Katie, and thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
For your time. Now, the legislation's going to see the
reinstating of domestic violence mandatory sentencing laws. These new mandatory
sentencing provisions include a tiered sentencing framework from two to
five years of imprison for certain domestic violence order breaches.
Can you talk me through how these tiered sentencings going
(01:06):
to work?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Sure thing, Katie. So as we know over the last
eight years, we've seen domestic violence increase horrifically right across
the territory and labor. You know, let they removed mandatory
sentencing for DVO breaches, so we're really focused on reinstating
because we want to put the rights of victims above
the rights of offenders, and we want to make sure
(01:28):
that DV perpetrators face those consequences. So what will happen
now is if you breach your DVO and there's harm
cause or a threat to cause harm, then there will
be a mandatory sentence for you. Or if you breach
your DEVO multiple times, you will also have to you know,
sit in jail. Because we think that the rights of
(01:50):
victims as well, it should be above the rights of perpetrators,
and people who commit domestic violence need to be dealt with.
It is the community's expectations. We have seen such a huge,
horrific example of what happens when domestic violence perpetrators continue
to be let back out into the community and back home,
and you know, we just need to put a stop
(02:10):
to this.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
So no matter what wash, if somebody breaches a domestic
violence order, they are going to be sent back to jail,
or do they have to actually commit an offense to
be sent back.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Where they breach the dvokad where there's harm or threat
to harm, or it's multiple breaches within a period of
time a short period of time, they will face the
consequences of jail time. And that is really important because
we need to keep victims safe and the way we
do that is to ensure that they perpetrators can't be
back out, you know, causing more harm to those same victims.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Obviously, we can't go into specifics of you know, of
situations that we've seen recently unfold where women have tragically
been killed in the Northern Territory, but it does seem
on many occasions that we have got domestic violence perpetrators
who are out on bail or there you know, they
maybe have I don't know, they're being monitored in some way,
(03:09):
but they certainly have a dv order against them, but
they are still offending against those victims. Are you confident
that this is going to stop that from happening?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Okay, This is exactly why we're putting forward the return
of the mandatory sentencing for DVO breaches. We need a
really strong message that if you breach those dvos and
you are continually causing harm threatening to cause harm to
your victim, then you're not going to get away with it.
You are going to be removed from that situation and
you're going to spend time in jail. The other really important.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Part of time, Can I just ask how much time?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So the time will be between two and five years.
We've expanded that we want that maximum, and then of course,
depending on the types of circumstances, then the judge will
determine that. But the message is loud and clear that
if you do breach your DBO and you cause harm,
or you threat to cause harm, or you do it
over and over, you are absolutely going to be spending
(04:07):
time in jail general.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
A group of women's legal services have told the ABC
that the Northern Territory government's playing politics with women's safety
by planning to reinstate this mandatory sentencing for repeat domestic
violence breaches. The chief executive of the Catherine Women's Information
and Legal Service, Hannah George, has told them that the
reforms have been rushed by the government and jails are
(04:31):
already at capacity, impacting on visitation, professional access and program delivery.
Did you speak to those services before looking at these
legislative changes.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
That's right, Katie. So I've met with a number of
the women's legal services a number of times in fact,
since becoming the Attorney General to hear exactly what it
is that they would like to see. One of the
really important parts of this legislation, which I spoke specifically
to the Women's Legal Services about, while the fact that
the Victim's Register had been somewhat not as effective as
(05:05):
it could be, and so part of this legislation is
to strengthen that, so we'll have more opportunities to ensure
that victims are notified at more stages of that perpetrator's movements,
not just when they're convicted, but of course if they
are breaching these dbos, this also means that they are
going to receive a notification. So it's that part of
(05:26):
it's really important. That's the part that they really clear
with me on wanting to make sure was right. The
other thing about women's services, not only legal but for
support for victims, is that there needs to be more money.
And the way that we're able to address some of
this more money is in the same legislation we are
increasing the Victim's levy by around forty one percent. In
(05:47):
that way, we'll actually have more money for those victims services,
and that again is something that that sector of women's
legal services absolutely have called for a number of times.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Look, I'm definitely not an expert in this space. I
you know, I don't know whether these changes will make
a difference. But what I do know is that clearly
what has been happening isn't working. Our domestic violence rates
are incredibly high. I do know though that there were
obviously recommendations handed down by the coroner following the deaths
(06:17):
of for Indigenous women in the Northern Territory. Are they
going to Are the recommendations from that going to be implemented?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
So there's been a number of coronials into a number
of domestic violence depths, and we've seen that time and
time again. What we like you've just said, what we know,
it hasn't been working in terms of the things that
labor are watered down over the last eight years. I mean,
removing those mandatory sentencing means that those offenders continue to
be back out on the streets, back at home, back
(06:46):
being in the opportunity to cause more harm to their victims.
So that this is why we're bringing this forward. Those
recommendations as a number of them, thirty five of them,
and our departments are going through all of those things
to see what we've already done, what needs to be
looked at, and that's work that will continue right throughout.
(07:06):
And this is one of the important things about domestic
and family violence is we absolutely need to take a
different approach and different action because what we have been
doing hasn't been working, which is why we've seen these
huge increases.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
So Attorney General, just with the legislation, so it was
obviously introduced to Parliament yesterday, where is it at and
how quickly do you think that these changes are going
to be implemented?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So, Katie, I've preferred the bill to the Scrutiny Committee
so that everyone has their opportunity to put forward their
feedback about the bill, and that will happen between now
and the next sittings in May, and then our intention
is for in May to pass that legislation so that
it can be implemented as soon as possible, because we
want to make sure that victims can be safe and
(07:49):
we want to ensure that there are justice of victims
as well.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
All right, Attorney General. I've got a bit to cover off,
so I want to move along. I want to ask
you about the situation with the IKAC now. I spoke
to the Chief Minister on about the report that was
tabled a week ago into Parliament into the situation with
colle Ain Gwynn. The IKAK had launched the investigation in
September twenty twenty three into allegations including that the police
(08:13):
investigation and prosecution was motivated by malice and the Police
Commissioner's referral to the Special References Unit was an abuse
of power. In that report, Patricia Kelly sc says it
was unsurprising the investigation was referred to the SIU, which
was set up to investigate high level corruption and serious
conflicts of interest. She also determined that it was not
(08:35):
her role to question any of the legal advice given,
finding no bias to continue any investigation under the IKAC Act. Now.
Following that, Collein Gwinn issued a statement last Friday and
said the IKAQ investigation was insufficiently thorough as the investigator
relied solely on the court documents and the information provided
(08:57):
by the entities under scrutiny. They had no independent fact
checking was conducted, No witnesses were interviewed, and no verification
of Affid David claims, particularly those used to justify intrusive warrants,
was undertaken. Attorney General, do you think this is a
thorough investigation given the fact that no one was interviewed?
(09:19):
According to Colleen.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Gwinn Katie, what I do know is that this when
this came to our attention, that became more public interest.
Most recently, I asked the IKAK if they had investigated
the case, and of course they came forward and told
me that there is in fact an IKAK report and
it had been four hundred forts sorry three hundred and
(09:43):
forty three days since that report was finalized. When I
received that report, I immediately tabled it in Parliament because
it was of a public interest. So at the same time,
I've also asked my Attorney General's Department for a full
briefing because I need to DECI what happens next, and
given that it has such a huge public interest about it,
(10:06):
I think it's important that we find that out. And
I mean the question that I have is, you know,
why has it taken so long for a report that
had such high public interests and you know, affecting people's
lives to be brought to the public's attention. You know,
Labor they asking the.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Attorney General's Department to have a look into it. Is
that effectively? I mean, are they going to be looking
into some of the work that they had done, or like,
is it going to be appropriate that they look into it.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Look, that's the first step of the process. I need
to find out exactly what it happened. You know, I
didn't have any oversight of this. This all happened under
LABOR and so we didn't have any of this information
to us and they didn't come forward.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Totally understand that. I totally understand that. I guess the
you know, the thing that I'm wondering is what's the
next steps? And when I spoke to to Colin Gwynn,
she had said she just wanted an apology. I know
you were not in power at the time, but should
there be an apology for the way that she was treated?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I think what has to happen is the process and
to get to the next step, and we're not at
that point yet. So that's why I've asked that that
full briefing. I want to understand exactly what happened so
that I can work out what do I do next.
I don't want to go and jump into hypotheticals or
speculate on things I just don't know, and have the
answers to Katie, and I think that is a fair
(11:28):
position to have it because because we are talking about,
you know, people's lives and the work that they have
done over a lot of time, and so I really
don't want to preempt any of that. I want to
make sure that we do go through a proper process,
and I'm really expecting the full brief to have some
information which will then help me with those next steps.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Attorney General, I know you were asked at a press
conference earlier this week if there are any other EYECAC
investigations which are of public interest that the former government
had been sitting on. Are you aware of any?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I don't have any knowledge of any others at this point,
but Katie, if there is a significant public interest in something,
then we will have a look at it and we
can ask the IKAC for well.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Obviously, the one that springs to mind is the situation
with Zach Rolf. I know that I asked the Chief
Minister about that earlier in the week as well. Have
you checked on that with the Ikak.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
So with the zach Rolf case, they are of course
mid process in a coronial and so I don't want
to meddle in things when it is mid process. I mean,
we saw the Labor government do that time and time again,
and that's just not the way that we want to
handle things. The important thing is that we let that
process happen and then once we come to the findings
of that, then we will work out the next step.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
All right, Attorney General, One quick question on one of
your other portfolios, and that is indeed tourism. The announcement
that anti major Events and anti tourism are potentially going
to merge.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Here.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Look, the worry that I've got is that we're potentially
going to go from seeing int Major Events being a
really dynamic, fast moving entity that has been able to
get some of the best events going across the Northern
Territory to it being slown down by bureaucracy. Why are
you forging ahead with this merger?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
So, Katie, it's important to understand we are at the
exploration stage of this. But what we know is that
we haven't been able to increase our visitation numbers to
the Northern Territory over the last number of years, and
yet we have seen major events which have attracted not
only the excitement from territorians, but have brought visitors to
the territory. So what I'm really focused on doing is
(13:42):
making sure that there's that real strategic alliance and working
together from two departments which at the moment sits silo
and side by side and very much works separately. And
if that means that we have to change some legislation
so we can continue that agile operation of major events
and aps, we want to do that because we definitely
don't want to see any backward steps for major events.
(14:05):
We want them to actually grow and be even better
going forward. But if we can organize it so that
people who are visiting the territory come here for an event,
but there know that there are so many other more
exciting things that they can do and extend their stay,
then that's going to help all of our tourism operators.
That's going to help all of our hospitality businesses and
businesses in general to be able to make the most
(14:27):
of the time that those people are visiting for those events.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Well, Attorney General Murray Claire Boothby, we are going to
have to leave it there. I know plenty of people
are going to have lots of opinions on the various
things we've discussed this morning. Thank you so much for
your time.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Thank you Katie, and thank you
Now we know. The Northern Territory government yesterday introduced the
(00:03):
Domestic and Family Violence and Victim's Legislation Amendment Bill to Parliament.
The bill proposes to make critical amendments to several domestic
and family Violence and Victims of Crime acts. It's touted
as reinstating domestic violence mandatory sentencing laws which Labor removed.
Now joining us on the line is the Attorney General
(00:24):
of the Northern Territory, Marie Claire Boothby. Good morning to you.
We seem to have a bit of an issue there
with our phone line for some reason. Let's see if
I can get that back up and running. I'm not
too sure what's going on. We will just try that
again once more. All right, good morning to you, Attorney General.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Good morning, Katie, and thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
For your time. Now, the legislation's going to see the
reinstating of domestic violence mandatory sentencing laws. These new mandatory
sentencing provisions include a tiered sentencing framework from two to
five years of imprison for certain domestic violence order breaches.
Can you talk me through how these tiered sentencings going
(01:06):
to work?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Sure thing, Katie. So as we know over the last
eight years, we've seen domestic violence increase horrifically right across
the territory and labor. You know, let they removed mandatory
sentencing for DVO breaches, so we're really focused on reinstating
because we want to put the rights of victims above
the rights of offenders, and we want to make sure
(01:28):
that DV perpetrators face those consequences. So what will happen
now is if you breach your DVO and there's harm
cause or a threat to cause harm, then there will
be a mandatory sentence for you. Or if you breach
your DEVO multiple times, you will also have to you know,
sit in jail. Because we think that the rights of
(01:50):
victims as well, it should be above the rights of perpetrators,
and people who commit domestic violence need to be dealt with.
It is the community's expectations. We have seen such a huge,
horrific example of what happens when domestic violence perpetrators continue
to be let back out into the community and back home,
and you know, we just need to put a stop
(02:10):
to this.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
So no matter what wash, if somebody breaches a domestic
violence order, they are going to be sent back to jail,
or do they have to actually commit an offense to
be sent back.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Where they breach the dvokad where there's harm or threat
to harm, or it's multiple breaches within a period of
time a short period of time, they will face the
consequences of jail time. And that is really important because
we need to keep victims safe and the way we
do that is to ensure that they perpetrators can't be
back out, you know, causing more harm to those same victims.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Obviously, we can't go into specifics of you know, of
situations that we've seen recently unfold where women have tragically
been killed in the Northern Territory, but it does seem
on many occasions that we have got domestic violence perpetrators
who are out on bail or there you know, they
maybe have I don't know, they're being monitored in some way,
(03:09):
but they certainly have a dv order against them, but
they are still offending against those victims. Are you confident
that this is going to stop that from happening?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Okay, This is exactly why we're putting forward the return
of the mandatory sentencing for DVO breaches. We need a
really strong message that if you breach those dvos and
you are continually causing harm threatening to cause harm to
your victim, then you're not going to get away with it.
You are going to be removed from that situation and
you're going to spend time in jail. The other really important.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Part of time, Can I just ask how much time?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So the time will be between two and five years.
We've expanded that we want that maximum, and then of course,
depending on the types of circumstances, then the judge will
determine that. But the message is loud and clear that
if you do breach your DBO and you cause harm,
or you threat to cause harm, or you do it
over and over, you are absolutely going to be spending
(04:07):
time in jail general.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
A group of women's legal services have told the ABC
that the Northern Territory government's playing politics with women's safety
by planning to reinstate this mandatory sentencing for repeat domestic
violence breaches. The chief executive of the Catherine Women's Information
and Legal Service, Hannah George, has told them that the
reforms have been rushed by the government and jails are
(04:31):
already at capacity, impacting on visitation, professional access and program delivery.
Did you speak to those services before looking at these
legislative changes.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
That's right, Katie. So I've met with a number of
the women's legal services a number of times in fact,
since becoming the Attorney General to hear exactly what it
is that they would like to see. One of the
really important parts of this legislation, which I spoke specifically
to the Women's Legal Services about, while the fact that
the Victim's Register had been somewhat not as effective as
(05:05):
it could be, and so part of this legislation is
to strengthen that, so we'll have more opportunities to ensure
that victims are notified at more stages of that perpetrator's movements,
not just when they're convicted, but of course if they
are breaching these dbos, this also means that they are
going to receive a notification. So it's that part of
(05:26):
it's really important. That's the part that they really clear
with me on wanting to make sure was right. The
other thing about women's services, not only legal but for
support for victims, is that there needs to be more money.
And the way that we're able to address some of
this more money is in the same legislation we are
increasing the Victim's levy by around forty one percent. In
(05:47):
that way, we'll actually have more money for those victims services,
and that again is something that that sector of women's
legal services absolutely have called for a number of times.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Look, I'm definitely not an expert in this space. I
you know, I don't know whether these changes will make
a difference. But what I do know is that clearly
what has been happening isn't working. Our domestic violence rates
are incredibly high. I do know though that there were
obviously recommendations handed down by the coroner following the deaths
(06:17):
of for Indigenous women in the Northern Territory. Are they
going to Are the recommendations from that going to be implemented?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
So there's been a number of coronials into a number
of domestic violence depths, and we've seen that time and
time again. What we like you've just said, what we know,
it hasn't been working in terms of the things that
labor are watered down over the last eight years. I mean,
removing those mandatory sentencing means that those offenders continue to
be back out on the streets, back at home, back
(06:46):
being in the opportunity to cause more harm to their victims.
So that this is why we're bringing this forward. Those
recommendations as a number of them, thirty five of them,
and our departments are going through all of those things
to see what we've already done, what needs to be
looked at, and that's work that will continue right throughout.
(07:06):
And this is one of the important things about domestic
and family violence is we absolutely need to take a
different approach and different action because what we have been
doing hasn't been working, which is why we've seen these
huge increases.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
So Attorney General, just with the legislation, so it was
obviously introduced to Parliament yesterday, where is it at and
how quickly do you think that these changes are going
to be implemented?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So, Katie, I've preferred the bill to the Scrutiny Committee
so that everyone has their opportunity to put forward their
feedback about the bill, and that will happen between now
and the next sittings in May, and then our intention
is for in May to pass that legislation so that
it can be implemented as soon as possible, because we
want to make sure that victims can be safe and
(07:49):
we want to ensure that there are justice of victims
as well.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
All right, Attorney General. I've got a bit to cover off,
so I want to move along. I want to ask
you about the situation with the IKAC now. I spoke
to the Chief Minister on about the report that was
tabled a week ago into Parliament into the situation with
colle Ain Gwynn. The IKAK had launched the investigation in
September twenty twenty three into allegations including that the police
(08:13):
investigation and prosecution was motivated by malice and the Police
Commissioner's referral to the Special References Unit was an abuse
of power. In that report, Patricia Kelly sc says it
was unsurprising the investigation was referred to the SIU, which
was set up to investigate high level corruption and serious
conflicts of interest. She also determined that it was not
(08:35):
her role to question any of the legal advice given,
finding no bias to continue any investigation under the IKAC Act. Now.
Following that, Collein Gwinn issued a statement last Friday and
said the IKAQ investigation was insufficiently thorough as the investigator
relied solely on the court documents and the information provided
(08:57):
by the entities under scrutiny. They had no independent fact
checking was conducted, No witnesses were interviewed, and no verification
of Affid David claims, particularly those used to justify intrusive warrants,
was undertaken. Attorney General, do you think this is a
thorough investigation given the fact that no one was interviewed?
(09:19):
According to Colleen.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Gwinn Katie, what I do know is that this when
this came to our attention, that became more public interest.
Most recently, I asked the IKAK if they had investigated
the case, and of course they came forward and told
me that there is in fact an IKAK report and
it had been four hundred forts sorry three hundred and
(09:43):
forty three days since that report was finalized. When I
received that report, I immediately tabled it in Parliament because
it was of a public interest. So at the same time,
I've also asked my Attorney General's Department for a full
briefing because I need to DECI what happens next, and
given that it has such a huge public interest about it,
(10:06):
I think it's important that we find that out. And
I mean the question that I have is, you know,
why has it taken so long for a report that
had such high public interests and you know, affecting people's
lives to be brought to the public's attention. You know,
Labor they asking the.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Attorney General's Department to have a look into it. Is
that effectively? I mean, are they going to be looking
into some of the work that they had done, or like,
is it going to be appropriate that they look into it.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Look, that's the first step of the process. I need
to find out exactly what it happened. You know, I
didn't have any oversight of this. This all happened under
LABOR and so we didn't have any of this information
to us and they didn't come forward.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Totally understand that. I totally understand that. I guess the
you know, the thing that I'm wondering is what's the
next steps? And when I spoke to to Colin Gwynn,
she had said she just wanted an apology. I know
you were not in power at the time, but should
there be an apology for the way that she was treated?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I think what has to happen is the process and
to get to the next step, and we're not at
that point yet. So that's why I've asked that that
full briefing. I want to understand exactly what happened so
that I can work out what do I do next.
I don't want to go and jump into hypotheticals or
speculate on things I just don't know, and have the
answers to Katie, and I think that is a fair
(11:28):
position to have it because because we are talking about,
you know, people's lives and the work that they have
done over a lot of time, and so I really
don't want to preempt any of that. I want to
make sure that we do go through a proper process,
and I'm really expecting the full brief to have some
information which will then help me with those next steps.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Attorney General, I know you were asked at a press
conference earlier this week if there are any other EYECAC
investigations which are of public interest that the former government
had been sitting on. Are you aware of any?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I don't have any knowledge of any others at this point,
but Katie, if there is a significant public interest in something,
then we will have a look at it and we
can ask the IKAC for well.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Obviously, the one that springs to mind is the situation
with Zach Rolf. I know that I asked the Chief
Minister about that earlier in the week as well. Have
you checked on that with the Ikak.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
So with the zach Rolf case, they are of course
mid process in a coronial and so I don't want
to meddle in things when it is mid process. I mean,
we saw the Labor government do that time and time again,
and that's just not the way that we want to
handle things. The important thing is that we let that
process happen and then once we come to the findings
of that, then we will work out the next step.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
All right, Attorney General, One quick question on one of
your other portfolios, and that is indeed tourism. The announcement
that anti major Events and anti tourism are potentially going
to merge.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Here.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Look, the worry that I've got is that we're potentially
going to go from seeing int Major Events being a
really dynamic, fast moving entity that has been able to
get some of the best events going across the Northern
Territory to it being slown down by bureaucracy. Why are
you forging ahead with this merger?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
So, Katie, it's important to understand we are at the
exploration stage of this. But what we know is that
we haven't been able to increase our visitation numbers to
the Northern Territory over the last number of years, and
yet we have seen major events which have attracted not
only the excitement from territorians, but have brought visitors to
the territory. So what I'm really focused on doing is
(13:42):
making sure that there's that real strategic alliance and working
together from two departments which at the moment sits silo
and side by side and very much works separately. And
if that means that we have to change some legislation
so we can continue that agile operation of major events
and aps, we want to do that because we definitely
don't want to see any backward steps for major events.
(14:05):
We want them to actually grow and be even better
going forward. But if we can organize it so that
people who are visiting the territory come here for an event,
but there know that there are so many other more
exciting things that they can do and extend their stay,
then that's going to help all of our tourism operators.
That's going to help all of our hospitality businesses and
businesses in general to be able to make the most
(14:27):
of the time that those people are visiting for those events.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Well, Attorney General Murray Claire Boothby, we are going to
have to leave it there. I know plenty of people
are going to have lots of opinions on the various
things we've discussed this morning. Thank you so much for
your time.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Thank you Katie, and thank you
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