Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Last week we learned that territorians over eighteen are going
to be able to buy OC spray from September for
self defense as part of a twelvemonth trial. Now we're
making the announcement. The Chief Minister said that the Northern
Territory would look to replicate the approach in Western Australia,
which is on the other jurisdiction where OC spray is lawful.
The Chief Minister Leafanocchiaro joins me in the studio. Good
(00:23):
morning to your Chief Minister.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And wanting Kadian to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Now, Chief Minister, why did you decide to go down
this path with the OC spray.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yeah, it's something that territorians have been talking to us
about for a long time. I think we might have
even talked about it.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
On the show.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Others have been calling for castle law and different things,
and i'd flag that we were looking at a range
of feasible options.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
And certainly because Western.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Australia has already gone down this path, it provides us
a really good example of how we can make this
work really effectively in the territory. But you know, on
top of that, we're out there now, you know, hearing
people on this issue, and police are looking really closely
now at what we might need to change to make
it more operational for the territory.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
But I think the feedback we've had so far as
that most people are open to it. And of course
it's not compulsory.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
If people don't want to buy OC spray come one September,
you don't have to. But if you do want that
extra level of self defense, should you need it, then
you'll be legally able to do.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
So how is it going to work in terms of
the rollout and who's going to be able to access it?
They're sort of the biggest questions that we're getting at
the minutes.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, great questions.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
So we're looking at so it will be licensed viaarm
dealers would be the people who sell it, because they're
already people who know how to store and look after ammunition, weapons,
et cetera. So you know, your local tackle shop for example,
would be where you could go. And then in terms
of who will be able to buy it, it must be
you must be over eighteen. We know that much, and
(01:49):
then we're looking through how can we make it so
that there are some safeguards around who can and can't
purchase it without making that too onerous. I mean, at
the end of the day, we want territories to be
able to act, so putting them through a six month
wait or something like that would be unworkable.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So we're just going through that now.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So are you going to need any training or anything
like that in terms of how to use it because
there's people worried it's going to wind up in the
wrong hand.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Sure, no, I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I believe in wa they sort of give you a
bit of a flyer on how to use it. But again,
the police will look at whether we need to do
any of that. Just to people who are concerned about
it getting in the wrong hands, and we've heard this
a fair bit. I just ask everyone to take a
step back and think about it more from a practical perspective. Now,
if you open your kitchen sink right now at home
(02:35):
or in your office, there will be all manner of
things under it that could be used against you. When
you go to bed at night, your bedside lamp is
that you're on your bedside table, your.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Keys might be there.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
There are all sorts of things people can weaponize against you.
If you're out on a walk, people could pick up
a stick or a rock. So we already live every day.
If someone is going to try and hurt you, people
will find a way to hurt you. I don't think
OC spray creates any difference in that respect.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
So September is when we're expecting this to roll out. Yeah,
so when are you kind of like, what's the process
now for the Northern Territory Police and who are they
going to be consulting, you know, what work needs to
happen in the meantime.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yep, So they're speaking with WA police and looking to
how they've rolled it out. They'll be speaking to obviously
the firearms dealers, key stakeholders, people who really want to
have a voice in this space, and we'll just work
through it to be a twelve month trial.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
So of course it.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Will then be evaluated and we'll be looking at did
that work was that successful?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Is it something we make permanent going forward? So that'll
all be done.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Ready to go for one September so that territories are
really clear about what that looks like.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Okay. Now, the Aboriginal Medical Services Alliance sam SAND has
strongly condemned the OC spray trial. They're warning it's going
to do nothing to improve community safety, The CEO John
Patterson giving saying that it's going to give the community
access to a weapon. It will not figure violence, it
will fuel it, putting lives of vulnerable people at risk.
(04:04):
He says the colp's decision will also deepen community distrust
and worsen racial divides. What do you say to those
who feel the roll out could put the most vulnerable
in the community at risk?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Well, I reject everything that John says from the start there.
I mean, this hysterical commentary we're seeing at the moment
really doesn't help anyone. I just don't think anyone thinking
very calmly or practically about this could come to that conclusion.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
What do you think is hysterical about what he sees?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Well, I mean, how will OC spray?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
So, how are the legal use of OC spray insite
additional racial tensions?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Or how? I mean?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I just as I said, go to your kitchen sink
right now, and I challenge you to find something that
would not cause you great discomfort if someone sprayed that
in your face. You know it's you know, what we're
talking about is different measures, new measures, trying new things
to not only make the territories safer place.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
But to make people feel more in control of their lives.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Is an admission. As the opposition says that you are
failing when it comes to crime.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
No, and the data doesn't bear that out to be
true either. This is just another tool in the toolkit
for people. It's about giving power back for people to
take control of their lives. I mean, We've particularly had
women coming to us saying I'm going to start going
for my walks again in the afternoon, you know, reclaiming
public spaces. And it's not because they'll probably ever use it, Katie,
(05:28):
and that's the whole point, but even the peace of
mind of having it is a powerful, powerful thing for
people to be able to get back out into our community.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Lea, You've got quite a few groups at the moment
really saying that you are failing on crime. I mean,
the opposition obviously saying that the changes that you've made,
the legislative changes, are not making an impact when it
comes to the minimization of crime. Last week on the show,
we were joined by naja's CEO and also their chair
now Teresa the Cheer says a lot of Aboriginal people
(05:58):
are fearful of police following these second death in custody
and that you need to show some leadership and reassure
territorians that police are there to serve and protect. Now,
she and the acting CEO, Anthony Bevn are calling for
a forum to fix the justice system crisis, bringing together
the Northern Territory and the Commonwealth governments, police, Attorney General,
(06:21):
Corrections and Aboriginal leaders. Is this something that you feel
needs to happen.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
No, Katie, and quite honestly, I mean NAJA has had
its own problems for a very long time. I think
they should focus their energy on getting themselves back on
track and not trying to do my job. I've been
elected for a really important reason, and that's to reduce
crime and restore community safety. After a decade of labor
weakening the laws and simply not holding people accountable for
(06:49):
their crimes.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Now the data.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Shows very clearly we've put an additional I think six
hundred people in prison since August, we've built another five
hundred and fifty beds. And look, that's it's sad. It's
absolutely sad that it gets to that point. But these
are people who should not be on the street because
they perpetrate crimes on innocent people, and so what we've
got to do is deal with that point and defending
that's happening right now. We've also got to invest in
(07:13):
the root causes of crime, which includes the measures we've
done on holding parents accountable to get kids to schools,
circuit breaker. You know, our remand Center for Youth in
Alice Springs is now open, boot camp on its way.
So there's plenty of work being done over the last
ten months and there's much more to come.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yeah. They I mean, they did say that your tough
on crime approach in locking people up isn't reducing crime.
They reckon that a remand center is needed and court
matters need to be dealt with faster. Do you feel
as though the legislative changes that you're making are working
at this point?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, we really do.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
And I don't know how NAGER can say they're not
reducing crime. We're seeing massive reductions in property crime, robbery.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
You know what kind of reductions are we talking?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Oh, I don't have them on the MI Katie, but
I know over the particularly all of the major centers
except for Tenant Creek last month had improvements on property crime.
So they were different, whether it was Darwin, Caterine, Alys, etc.
And Tenant Crete was the exception there.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
But you know, there's plenty more work to do.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
There's no one thing we've got to undress, you know,
address a lot of issues that we've inherited, and we're
just systematically working through that.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
One of the things they did raise that I think
is a worry is the number of people that are
on remand and then when people are on romand not
actually you know, undertaking different programs to try and rehabilitate
and in some cases on ramand for an extended period
of time, you know, particularly if you're waiting to go
through the Supreme Court for example, like it's about a year.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, even yeah, it's a very long time.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
And again this is where the work we've done to
invest in legal aid.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
You know, we've short up funding for legal aid.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
We've put our public prosecutors into permanent roles so that
we've got it's the other system's courts. I mean, our
one point five billion dollar investment this year in this
budget goes to police corrections and courts, and that's something
Labor wasn't doing. We've established the Tiger Task Force to
be looking at those remand numbers. They have about three
hundred cases they're looking at right now to see if
(09:13):
there can be early resolution. So again, these remind numbers
aren't because of our laws. They existed when we came
to government because labor was not investing in corrections or courts.
So we've done both, plus invest in our police and
have new measures quickly.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Do you think you're going to start to see a
change or a real speed way we have people on.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Remind Yeah, we have. There's been a tiny drop.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I don't know the percentage, but I was speaking with
the Attorney General on Saturday about it, and so there
has been a tiny drop. And I know that the
Tiger Task Force have nearly moved through those three hundred
cases and a lot of those have gone to early resolution,
which is a good result. We don't need things cloging
up the system if they don't have to.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
So yeah, we've got some good positive movement.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Is it time to look at a remand center?
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I don't think we need a remand center necessarily. I
mean it's just a different place to house the same people.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
We're managing really well.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I mean, even at its peak, I think it was
last week we had about thirty prisoners in the watchhouse,
so the numbers are really under.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Control at the moment.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
It's still putting, you know, huge pressure in our corrections
and police workforce. I'm not trying to sugarcoat that, but
it's not like what the pressures we were seeing in
December January.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Do you think those some changes could potentially be made
so that people can do programs while they're on remand
or is that something that's difficult to you know, to
push forward with because they're not found guilty yet.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, they are allowed to, but they have to volunteer
for it.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Yeah, so that's the problem. So we are actually looking
at whether or not we can mandate people on remand.
But of course, when they're on their remand, you know,
they haven't had their day in court yet, so it's
slightly more complicated.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
But we hard trying to chug through that.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
NADA and they sort of said that, you know, yes,
that obviously consumed when someone is on remand and I'm
putting words in their mouths now, But but you know,
could it be, as you've touched on the when you're
talking about mandating it, could it be you know, when
it's things like a rehabilitation program potentially or domestic violence.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yeah, and courts are able to sentence people to programs
as well. So that's all in the mix right now,
trying to get to the bottom of some of those
mechanical processes. But we definitely need more prison beds, whether
it's a remand center or an actual facility where you know,
remand center is not part of our corrections master plan,
and our master plan has been working really well well.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
And you need money for all of these things, sure
you do.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
But you know again, you know, I know people don't
necessarily want money spend on prisons, but at the same time,
you've got to have them.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
So it's at catch twenty two.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Okay. There are still calls today for an independent inquiry
following the death in custody in Alice Springs. The ABC
this morning speaking to Thomas Mayo, who said letters are
going to be delivered to Parliament House calling for this
through justice not jails. I believe is an independent inquiry
(12:05):
going to happen. I mean, like I believe you've ruled
it out a couple of times. Does this change your
mind in any way?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Absolutely not, Katie, and it will be an independent inquiry
done by our wonderful police whose job it is to investigate.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And also by the coroner.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
So all of these calls, all of this energy being
expended on the issue, could probably be poured into something
more productive, because just like in any other jurisdiction, a
death in custody is investigated by that jurisdiction's police, and
I think, I mean Marian Scrimger of all people, the
member Filingiari, I think last week or the week before
(12:40):
was calling for the AFP.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
To investigate instead.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
And yet since then we've had an AFP death in
custody and guess who's investigating that.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
The Northern Territory Police.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
So I think a lot of this debate is absolutely
politically fueled, and I think that is disgraceful. It undermines
confidence in our police when they do an excellent job
and are the very best people to do this, you know,
this important work, and so there will be no other
inquiry other than the ones that the law provides to happen.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Now, speaking of the police, another issue which continues to
bubble along is the Police Association's calls for a pay
rise for officers. Nathan Finn joined me on the show
last week and said the attrition rate is still the
worst in the country. Morale is rock bottom, and our
officers are walking out the door, and that police are
feeling completely betrayed over this pay issue. Do you need
(13:31):
to just sit down with the association and sort this out.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Look, this is an association doing its job as part
of an eba, Katie. They've got a they've got a
you know, lobby hard for a big as bigger pay
rise as they can get for their members. And I
get that, and you know I'm the I'm the collateral
damage in that politically, Katie.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
And that's fine.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
I get paid more though, of course they do. But
at the end of the day, you know, offers are
being put to NTPA. They have and yet put any
to the police. So you know that's a matter for
the NTPA.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Five percent, I believe is what they're after.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah, I believe so, and so OCP continued to negotiate
in good faith and put forward offers. They're also ask NTPA,
you know what they're looking for.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
So all of that is to want it to go
under the bridge.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
How much would it cost to give them the five
percent pay increase and not change the housing.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
I don't know, Katie, but I imagine OCPE would you know,
be looking at all of those factors, and you know
it's all on the table. So we want the police
to get a great pay rise and this is all
part of negotiations. But you know, our attrition rate is
down to four point eight five percent, Katie, from eight
percent last year, nine percent the year before, and ten
percent the year before that. So things are going really
(14:50):
really well. To draw attrition to four point eight five
is something we're very proud of. And we continue to
back our police in And.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
You can't deny though that, you know, we need to
be competitive with other states.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
We have the best paid police in the country. We
have the best paid police.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
I know you've said that, but then we had some
people contacting us on Friday last week saying that is
not the case.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Well, all of the data I've got says that it
is across all ranks. I think there's except one, and
we're like second or third. I can't remember which rank
might be, my guest, but yeah, so, and we want
to continue that though, right. We want to be competitive.
We want our territory police to stay. We want to
reward them with a good pay rise and that's the negotiating.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Well, look, they do a phenomenal job, and we are
going to be catching up with a police officer in
just a moment, Detective Senior Sergeant Toby Wilson, about the
indecent assaults. So we will just forge your head quite quickly.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Chief, Yes, no worries.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
I want to talk to you about someone who is
reportedly still being paid almost two months after he announced
his resignation. That's the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries Chief
executive Andrew Kirkman. He is reportedly going to continue to
be paid by territory taxpayers until August, when his contract
was due to expire.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
What is the goal here, Yeah, that's my understanding as well, Katie.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So I thought it resigned.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
So he resigned from his role at Agriculture and Fisheries,
but his contracts still continue. So he's on leave and
so until the leave runs out and the contract runs out,
he'll be paying what kind of leave. I don't know, Katie,
but I think he notified staff in April and then
he's been on leave since then.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So he's I mean, do you see that as as appropriate?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Well, it's just how the contracts works.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
There's a requirement for government contracts that you either have
your your contract renegotiated six months out or it's not renewed,
so you have to give that six months notice. So
he's been given that notice and has made the decision
to be on leave, and so would it.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Be a correct assumption to make that you know that
after giving that notice he decided, well, you know, you
guys don't want me anymore. I'm just gonna take leave.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
But if you have leave, you can take leave.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
So I think you know, it's you know what I
mean like when you know, if you're a long term
public servant, them would have her crued. Gosh, weeks and
weeks and weeks, if not months. So come August that
contract ends and that's the end of it, all.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Right, very quickly, we know that there is also going
to be an announcement today around the Approvals Fast Tracked
Task Force. What's happening today on this?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah, so we've received the final report. This is twenty
two recommendations. So government is now working through those recommendations
and once we've made decisions, we will publish the report
with what actions we're going to take. This is about
making it easier to do business in the territory, so
it's been a great piece of work. I just really
want to thank all of the business people and industry
(17:36):
leaders who put their hand up and we're really exciting
about making the territory an easier place to live, work,
visit and invest.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
All right, Chief Minister Leah Finocchiaro, we better leave it there.
We've got a lineup of guests. Thank you. As always,
we'll catch up with you very soon.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Thank you, every thank you.
Last week we learned that territorians over eighteen are going
to be able to buy OC spray from September for
self defense as part of a twelvemonth trial. Now we're
making the announcement. The Chief Minister said that the Northern
Territory would look to replicate the approach in Western Australia,
which is on the other jurisdiction where OC spray is lawful.
The Chief Minister Leafanocchiaro joins me in the studio. Good
(00:23):
morning to your Chief Minister.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And wanting Kadian to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Now, Chief Minister, why did you decide to go down
this path with the OC spray.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yeah, it's something that territorians have been talking to us
about for a long time. I think we might have
even talked about it.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
On the show.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Others have been calling for castle law and different things,
and i'd flag that we were looking at a range
of feasible options.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
And certainly because Western.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Australia has already gone down this path, it provides us
a really good example of how we can make this
work really effectively in the territory. But you know, on
top of that, we're out there now, you know, hearing
people on this issue, and police are looking really closely
now at what we might need to change to make
it more operational for the territory.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
But I think the feedback we've had so far as
that most people are open to it. And of course
it's not compulsory.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
If people don't want to buy OC spray come one September,
you don't have to. But if you do want that
extra level of self defense, should you need it, then
you'll be legally able to do.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
So how is it going to work in terms of
the rollout and who's going to be able to access it?
They're sort of the biggest questions that we're getting at
the minutes.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, great questions.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
So we're looking at so it will be licensed viaarm
dealers would be the people who sell it, because they're
already people who know how to store and look after ammunition, weapons,
et cetera. So you know, your local tackle shop for example,
would be where you could go. And then in terms
of who will be able to buy it, it must be
you must be over eighteen. We know that much, and
(01:49):
then we're looking through how can we make it so
that there are some safeguards around who can and can't
purchase it without making that too onerous. I mean, at
the end of the day, we want territories to be
able to act, so putting them through a six month
wait or something like that would be unworkable.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So we're just going through that now.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So are you going to need any training or anything
like that in terms of how to use it because
there's people worried it's going to wind up in the
wrong hand.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Sure, no, I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I believe in wa they sort of give you a
bit of a flyer on how to use it. But again,
the police will look at whether we need to do
any of that. Just to people who are concerned about
it getting in the wrong hands, and we've heard this
a fair bit. I just ask everyone to take a
step back and think about it more from a practical perspective. Now,
if you open your kitchen sink right now at home
(02:35):
or in your office, there will be all manner of
things under it that could be used against you. When
you go to bed at night, your bedside lamp is
that you're on your bedside table, your.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Keys might be there.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
There are all sorts of things people can weaponize against you.
If you're out on a walk, people could pick up
a stick or a rock. So we already live every day.
If someone is going to try and hurt you, people
will find a way to hurt you. I don't think
OC spray creates any difference in that respect.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
So September is when we're expecting this to roll out. Yeah,
so when are you kind of like, what's the process
now for the Northern Territory Police and who are they
going to be consulting, you know, what work needs to
happen in the meantime.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yep, So they're speaking with WA police and looking to
how they've rolled it out. They'll be speaking to obviously
the firearms dealers, key stakeholders, people who really want to
have a voice in this space, and we'll just work
through it to be a twelve month trial.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
So of course it.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Will then be evaluated and we'll be looking at did
that work was that successful?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Is it something we make permanent going forward? So that'll
all be done.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Ready to go for one September so that territories are
really clear about what that looks like.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Okay. Now, the Aboriginal Medical Services Alliance sam SAND has
strongly condemned the OC spray trial. They're warning it's going
to do nothing to improve community safety, The CEO John
Patterson giving saying that it's going to give the community
access to a weapon. It will not figure violence, it
will fuel it, putting lives of vulnerable people at risk.
(04:04):
He says the colp's decision will also deepen community distrust
and worsen racial divides. What do you say to those
who feel the roll out could put the most vulnerable
in the community at risk?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Well, I reject everything that John says from the start there.
I mean, this hysterical commentary we're seeing at the moment
really doesn't help anyone. I just don't think anyone thinking
very calmly or practically about this could come to that conclusion.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
What do you think is hysterical about what he sees?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Well, I mean, how will OC spray?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
So, how are the legal use of OC spray insite
additional racial tensions?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Or how? I mean?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I just as I said, go to your kitchen sink
right now, and I challenge you to find something that
would not cause you great discomfort if someone sprayed that
in your face. You know it's you know, what we're
talking about is different measures, new measures, trying new things
to not only make the territories safer place.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
But to make people feel more in control of their lives.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Is an admission. As the opposition says that you are
failing when it comes to crime.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
No, and the data doesn't bear that out to be
true either. This is just another tool in the toolkit
for people. It's about giving power back for people to
take control of their lives. I mean, We've particularly had
women coming to us saying I'm going to start going
for my walks again in the afternoon, you know, reclaiming
public spaces. And it's not because they'll probably ever use it, Katie,
(05:28):
and that's the whole point, but even the peace of
mind of having it is a powerful, powerful thing for
people to be able to get back out into our community.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Lea, You've got quite a few groups at the moment
really saying that you are failing on crime. I mean,
the opposition obviously saying that the changes that you've made,
the legislative changes, are not making an impact when it
comes to the minimization of crime. Last week on the show,
we were joined by naja's CEO and also their chair
now Teresa the Cheer says a lot of Aboriginal people
(05:58):
are fearful of police following these second death in custody
and that you need to show some leadership and reassure
territorians that police are there to serve and protect. Now,
she and the acting CEO, Anthony Bevn are calling for
a forum to fix the justice system crisis, bringing together
the Northern Territory and the Commonwealth governments, police, Attorney General,
(06:21):
Corrections and Aboriginal leaders. Is this something that you feel
needs to happen.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
No, Katie, and quite honestly, I mean NAJA has had
its own problems for a very long time. I think
they should focus their energy on getting themselves back on
track and not trying to do my job. I've been
elected for a really important reason, and that's to reduce
crime and restore community safety. After a decade of labor
weakening the laws and simply not holding people accountable for
(06:49):
their crimes.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Now the data.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Shows very clearly we've put an additional I think six
hundred people in prison since August, we've built another five
hundred and fifty beds. And look, that's it's sad. It's
absolutely sad that it gets to that point. But these
are people who should not be on the street because
they perpetrate crimes on innocent people, and so what we've
got to do is deal with that point and defending
that's happening right now. We've also got to invest in
(07:13):
the root causes of crime, which includes the measures we've
done on holding parents accountable to get kids to schools,
circuit breaker. You know, our remand Center for Youth in
Alice Springs is now open, boot camp on its way.
So there's plenty of work being done over the last
ten months and there's much more to come.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yeah. They I mean, they did say that your tough
on crime approach in locking people up isn't reducing crime.
They reckon that a remand center is needed and court
matters need to be dealt with faster. Do you feel
as though the legislative changes that you're making are working
at this point?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, we really do.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
And I don't know how NAGER can say they're not
reducing crime. We're seeing massive reductions in property crime, robbery.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
You know what kind of reductions are we talking?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Oh, I don't have them on the MI Katie, but
I know over the particularly all of the major centers
except for Tenant Creek last month had improvements on property crime.
So they were different, whether it was Darwin, Caterine, Alys, etc.
And Tenant Crete was the exception there.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
But you know, there's plenty more work to do.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
There's no one thing we've got to undress, you know,
address a lot of issues that we've inherited, and we're
just systematically working through that.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
One of the things they did raise that I think
is a worry is the number of people that are
on remand and then when people are on romand not
actually you know, undertaking different programs to try and rehabilitate
and in some cases on ramand for an extended period
of time, you know, particularly if you're waiting to go
through the Supreme Court for example, like it's about a year.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, even yeah, it's a very long time.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
And again this is where the work we've done to
invest in legal aid.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
You know, we've short up funding for legal aid.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
We've put our public prosecutors into permanent roles so that
we've got it's the other system's courts. I mean, our
one point five billion dollar investment this year in this
budget goes to police corrections and courts, and that's something
Labor wasn't doing. We've established the Tiger Task Force to
be looking at those remand numbers. They have about three
hundred cases they're looking at right now to see if
(09:13):
there can be early resolution. So again, these remind numbers
aren't because of our laws. They existed when we came
to government because labor was not investing in corrections or courts.
So we've done both, plus invest in our police and
have new measures quickly.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Do you think you're going to start to see a
change or a real speed way we have people on.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Remind Yeah, we have. There's been a tiny drop.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I don't know the percentage, but I was speaking with
the Attorney General on Saturday about it, and so there
has been a tiny drop. And I know that the
Tiger Task Force have nearly moved through those three hundred
cases and a lot of those have gone to early resolution,
which is a good result. We don't need things cloging
up the system if they don't have to.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
So yeah, we've got some good positive movement.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Is it time to look at a remand center?
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I don't think we need a remand center necessarily. I
mean it's just a different place to house the same people.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
We're managing really well.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I mean, even at its peak, I think it was
last week we had about thirty prisoners in the watchhouse,
so the numbers are really under.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Control at the moment.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
It's still putting, you know, huge pressure in our corrections
and police workforce. I'm not trying to sugarcoat that, but
it's not like what the pressures we were seeing in
December January.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Do you think those some changes could potentially be made
so that people can do programs while they're on remand
or is that something that's difficult to you know, to
push forward with because they're not found guilty yet.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, they are allowed to, but they have to volunteer
for it.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Yeah, so that's the problem. So we are actually looking
at whether or not we can mandate people on remand.
But of course, when they're on their remand, you know,
they haven't had their day in court yet, so it's
slightly more complicated.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
But we hard trying to chug through that.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
NADA and they sort of said that, you know, yes,
that obviously consumed when someone is on remand and I'm
putting words in their mouths now, But but you know,
could it be, as you've touched on the when you're
talking about mandating it, could it be you know, when
it's things like a rehabilitation program potentially or domestic violence.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yeah, and courts are able to sentence people to programs
as well. So that's all in the mix right now,
trying to get to the bottom of some of those
mechanical processes. But we definitely need more prison beds, whether
it's a remand center or an actual facility where you know,
remand center is not part of our corrections master plan,
and our master plan has been working really well well.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
And you need money for all of these things, sure
you do.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
But you know again, you know, I know people don't
necessarily want money spend on prisons, but at the same time,
you've got to have them.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
So it's at catch twenty two.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Okay. There are still calls today for an independent inquiry
following the death in custody in Alice Springs. The ABC
this morning speaking to Thomas Mayo, who said letters are
going to be delivered to Parliament House calling for this
through justice not jails. I believe is an independent inquiry
(12:05):
going to happen. I mean, like I believe you've ruled
it out a couple of times. Does this change your
mind in any way?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Absolutely not, Katie, and it will be an independent inquiry
done by our wonderful police whose job it is to investigate.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And also by the coroner.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
So all of these calls, all of this energy being
expended on the issue, could probably be poured into something
more productive, because just like in any other jurisdiction, a
death in custody is investigated by that jurisdiction's police, and
I think, I mean Marian Scrimger of all people, the
member Filingiari, I think last week or the week before
(12:40):
was calling for the AFP.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
To investigate instead.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
And yet since then we've had an AFP death in
custody and guess who's investigating that.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
The Northern Territory Police.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
So I think a lot of this debate is absolutely
politically fueled, and I think that is disgraceful. It undermines
confidence in our police when they do an excellent job
and are the very best people to do this, you know,
this important work, and so there will be no other
inquiry other than the ones that the law provides to happen.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Now, speaking of the police, another issue which continues to
bubble along is the Police Association's calls for a pay
rise for officers. Nathan Finn joined me on the show
last week and said the attrition rate is still the
worst in the country. Morale is rock bottom, and our
officers are walking out the door, and that police are
feeling completely betrayed over this pay issue. Do you need
(13:31):
to just sit down with the association and sort this out.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Look, this is an association doing its job as part
of an eba, Katie. They've got a they've got a
you know, lobby hard for a big as bigger pay
rise as they can get for their members. And I
get that, and you know I'm the I'm the collateral
damage in that politically, Katie.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
And that's fine.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
I get paid more though, of course they do. But
at the end of the day, you know, offers are
being put to NTPA. They have and yet put any
to the police. So you know that's a matter for
the NTPA.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Five percent, I believe is what they're after.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah, I believe so, and so OCP continued to negotiate
in good faith and put forward offers. They're also ask NTPA,
you know what they're looking for.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
So all of that is to want it to go
under the bridge.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
How much would it cost to give them the five
percent pay increase and not change the housing.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
I don't know, Katie, but I imagine OCPE would you know,
be looking at all of those factors, and you know
it's all on the table. So we want the police
to get a great pay rise and this is all
part of negotiations. But you know, our attrition rate is
down to four point eight five percent, Katie, from eight
percent last year, nine percent the year before, and ten
percent the year before that. So things are going really
(14:50):
really well. To draw attrition to four point eight five
is something we're very proud of. And we continue to
back our police in And.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
You can't deny though that, you know, we need to
be competitive with other states.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
We have the best paid police in the country. We
have the best paid police.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
I know you've said that, but then we had some
people contacting us on Friday last week saying that is
not the case.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Well, all of the data I've got says that it
is across all ranks. I think there's except one, and
we're like second or third. I can't remember which rank
might be, my guest, but yeah, so, and we want
to continue that though, right. We want to be competitive.
We want our territory police to stay. We want to
reward them with a good pay rise and that's the negotiating.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Well, look, they do a phenomenal job, and we are
going to be catching up with a police officer in
just a moment, Detective Senior Sergeant Toby Wilson, about the
indecent assaults. So we will just forge your head quite quickly.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Chief, Yes, no worries.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
I want to talk to you about someone who is
reportedly still being paid almost two months after he announced
his resignation. That's the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries Chief
executive Andrew Kirkman. He is reportedly going to continue to
be paid by territory taxpayers until August, when his contract
was due to expire.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
What is the goal here, Yeah, that's my understanding as well, Katie.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So I thought it resigned.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
So he resigned from his role at Agriculture and Fisheries,
but his contracts still continue. So he's on leave and
so until the leave runs out and the contract runs out,
he'll be paying what kind of leave. I don't know, Katie,
but I think he notified staff in April and then
he's been on leave since then.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So he's I mean, do you see that as as appropriate?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Well, it's just how the contracts works.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
There's a requirement for government contracts that you either have
your your contract renegotiated six months out or it's not renewed,
so you have to give that six months notice. So
he's been given that notice and has made the decision
to be on leave, and so would it.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Be a correct assumption to make that you know that
after giving that notice he decided, well, you know, you
guys don't want me anymore. I'm just gonna take leave.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
But if you have leave, you can take leave.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
So I think you know, it's you know what I
mean like when you know, if you're a long term
public servant, them would have her crued. Gosh, weeks and
weeks and weeks, if not months. So come August that
contract ends and that's the end of it, all.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Right, very quickly, we know that there is also going
to be an announcement today around the Approvals Fast Tracked
Task Force. What's happening today on this?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah, so we've received the final report. This is twenty
two recommendations. So government is now working through those recommendations
and once we've made decisions, we will publish the report
with what actions we're going to take. This is about
making it easier to do business in the territory, so
it's been a great piece of work. I just really
want to thank all of the business people and industry
(17:36):
leaders who put their hand up and we're really exciting
about making the territory an easier place to live, work,
visit and invest.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
All right, Chief Minister Leah Finocchiaro, we better leave it there.
We've got a lineup of guests. Thank you. As always,
we'll catch up with you very soon.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Thank you, every thank you.
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