The Week That Was - 26th September 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time for the week that was. I know everybody
missed it over the last couple of weeks while I
was away, so I'm very pleased to say that. Joining
us in the studio this morning from Sky News, we've
got Matt Cunningham, Good morning to your mass Morning Wolf,
and we've got the acting Chief Minister of the Northern
Territory Mat. Have we ever had a chief Minister on
the show before? Do you think it's Jared Mayley?

Speaker 2 (00:20):
I think you have once.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
That was Adam Giles all those years ago. Sorry, I
did forget that.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hopefully this goes a bit I reckon it might.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
We'll see though, Jared, We'll wait and see. Good morning
to you.

Speaker 4 (00:33):
Good morning Katie, and good morning to your listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
And we've also got on the line the member for
Daily and he is also the Deputy Opposition leader, Duran Young.

Speaker 5 (00:44):
Good morning, Good morning Katie, and good morning to your listeners.

Speaker 6 (00:47):
And I hope you had a great break.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Thanks.

Speaker 7 (00:51):
You know, I had the opportunity to interview Adam Jiles
for the first time in like a decade or did
you had the Bush someone a few weeks ago, and
it was.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Just like a throwback to the days it was.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Like nothing had changed.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
One question about the daar and Port and it was
Do you know.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
One thing I will say about Adam Giles is I'll
never forget. You know, there was a situation where they
had tried to get rid of the Speaker of the
Northern Territory one night in Parliament House.

Speaker 7 (01:16):
Now they voted where they voted where they voted to
get rid of the speaker, and then voted the same
speaker straight back in.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
And this is where I'll always give Adam Giles credit.
I already had him lined up for an interview the
following morning ride. Instead of showing away and not wanting
to do it, he rocked up early and came across
with me while I was trying to get a coffee,
followed me across to you know, to talk to me
about the situation, and then definitely was there for the interview.
And you know, as much as I disagree with many

(01:43):
of the decisions that the former CLP government had made,
I will always respect someone fronting up and answering hard questions.

Speaker 7 (01:50):
Well, I was expecting him to just sort of, you know,
diplomatically bat away a question about the dar and Port,
and he just launched said he wouldn't wouldn't have done
anything differently, was his response.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
There you go, will Jared sitting quietly there, but I'm
sure he won't for the rest of the show. There'll
be lots to discuss. Now, let's get into it. Matt Cunningham,
you broke a story in the last twenty four hours
in relation to well the Northern Territory Health very much
troubled IT system. Akasha, tell us a little bit more
about the latest situation here.

Speaker 7 (02:24):
I think this is a really concerning story, Katie, because
it relates to a man by the name of Sean
Joyce who was working on that program, a very senior
IT technician, who died suddenly about eight weeks ago, and

(02:45):
his family has grave concerns about the circumstances that led
up to his sudden death.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
And about some of.

Speaker 7 (02:54):
The things that are happening within that workplace, within the
program that he was working on, and within the Department
of and Digital Development.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
I mean, Matt, I've read and I also watched some
of that vision. His family say he was trying to
lead a team that was constantly overworked. They were burnt
out in the months before he died, as they tried
to implement this three hundred and twenty million dollar IT
system in NT hospitals that was running several years over

(03:21):
time and tens of millions of dollars over budget. You know,
I'd heard his sister speak to you and say that
he'd spoken up as well at different times, and you know,
and raised people through.

Speaker 7 (03:34):
Two weeks before his death, Kara enjoins his sister and
his sister, Kara and brother Adam I think have been
really brave in coming out and speaking publicly. And Kara
also worked on the same program, and she came out
and said that two weeks before his death, he actually
stood up in a meeting and said, we've got a
real problem here. People are struggling, people are burnout. The

(03:55):
pressure on them is too much, and in her words,
they were told to get on with it.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
I mean, where do we go from here? Like this
ACACIA system, We're too far in to sort of go backwards,
I guess, But you know, how do we make sure
that this does indeed roll out in the way in
which it is supposed to. But you know, the people
that are in there rolling that system out as well
are not really feeling enormous pressure Jared, it's like it's

(04:21):
a tough one and it's a you know, I sort
of don't know where to go from here with this
it system.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
Yeah, this is a tragic circumstances which is left to
a passing and a fellow. So look, my heart dealt
consolence is to the family. But you're right, this is
a system that we inherited. We've been in office for
about a year, along with many other absolute disasters in
relation to I.

Speaker 7 (04:43):
Think, to be fair, it started with the JOLCLP government.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah, right, it's a long time announcement.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Of that, but there have been many iterations.

Speaker 4 (04:50):
Yeah, there's been eight years of the previous government and
this is a very tragic situation. And I'm sure as
a result of this news story being broken, there'll be
people looking into it. But you know, we are left
with a system that was broken. He said, years and
years delay, millions and millions of dollars are overspend. What
we're trying to do is make sure those things don't
continue on into the future. With these problems we dealt with,

(05:11):
we have to deal with, but moving forward, we want
to try and make sure that the status quo is
not the same and that we can try and fix
some of the tuites as we move forward.

Speaker 7 (05:19):
The government earlier this year is because Acacia was suspended
at ARDH. It was implemented in November twenty twenty three
and it was in for two months and it was
an absolute disaster. You know, you had a hospital staff
seeing your hospital stuff saying they were actually going to quit,
they were going to walk away if it wasn't removed.
And the old system which is way out of date,

(05:41):
well back in and then this government has had said
that it was going to be reintroduced at ARDIH and
Palmeston in April and we're in September now. It's just
been reintroduced in Tenant Creek and Al Springs.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
But I'm just wondering where are we.

Speaker 7 (05:57):
At as far as having Acacia implement mended in RDH
and Palmerston has promised, Look.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
I don't have that information right now at all. So
I apologize to that and we'll certainly get onto the
to the Health Ministry and find that get back to
if you like Katie, but I don't want to so
bookshe'd say, yeah, yeah, I don't have it right now.
It's a very traging situation. It's a very important situation
that we get on top off, and I can certainly
guarantee that we'll do that.

Speaker 7 (06:20):
One thing that came that I was told during the
course of investigating this story, Katie, is that there has
been a real disconnect between I've been told between some
of the senior executives in DCDD and the people on
the ground in the hospital about what's needed and how
it should work, and that within the Department of Corporate

(06:43):
and Digital Development, the people who have the technical knowledge
from what I have been told, are basically being sidelined
by more senior management that don't have an understanding of
the system and how it should or can and will
or won't work, and so you know, and they're being
pushed and pushed and pushed to try and implement something

(07:05):
that at the moment is clearly not working.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
It's clearly not working. I mean, Daran, what do you
make of it all? Obviously, as Jared has said, this
is a system that we've been trying to roll out
now for years and years. I mean, what do we do?
Do you scrap it all together? I think we're too
far in to be doing that.

Speaker 6 (07:24):
Yeah, Look, Katie, firstly, yeah, my thoughts go out to
Shawn Joyce's family, friends and alsoy colleagues that has been
working with. You know, this is an absolute tragedy and
no territory and should have to go through any circumstances
in the workplace that have been alleged and also that

(07:45):
on the back of the tragic death. But also you know,
I think it sits in the right place at the
moment now that it has been referred to the Parliamentary
Accounts Committee where they will investigate the matters around the
Acacia site, so we will get answers from that, and
I think that's more than appropriate that has been sent

(08:08):
to the Parliamentary Accounts Committee, and I hope that they
investigate this thoroughly and that we get a report that
comes out of it. We recommendations to ensure that we
don't see these incidents occur in the Department of Corporate
and Digital Development into the future, but also all departments
across all governments because it's just an absolute tragedy and

(08:32):
I think everyone would agree with that.

Speaker 7 (08:34):
Duran will the PAC also as part of its inquiry
investigate matters relating to Sean Joyce's death or is its
scope somewhat more limited.

Speaker 6 (08:48):
Look, I don't have that answer. I don't sit on
the Parliamentary Accounts Committee, but I would hope that they
would because I think it needs to definitely be investigated.
You know that what you talked about earlier, that the
amount of time that people were able to burn out
from being overworked has clearly led to this incident. But

(09:10):
I would hope that they would look in to all
matters that have led to this tragic death.

Speaker 7 (09:17):
The other issue that was raised with me, Katie, is
that many of the people, possibly even most of the
people working in that department on that project, are contractors
rather than full time employees. So then there is the
ability for them to just be hired and fired at will.
They don't have the same workplace rights yeah else work
and I think that's adding to the stress that they're

(09:38):
feeling a lot of the time.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah, well, look, we'll take a really quick break. If
you've just joined us, you are listening to the Week
that was, and on the show today we've got Matt Cunningham,
Jared Maylee and Duran Young. Well you are listening to
Mix one or four point ninety is the week that
was In the studio this morning, we've got Matt Cunningham,
Jared Maylee and on the line, we've got Duran Young. Now.
It's been a busy no doubt about it, and pressure

(10:02):
has been mounting on the Attorney General Marie Claire Boothby
to resign over a conflict of interest in a fatal
hit and run case. Boothby failed to publicly disclose that
Jake Danby, who was given a non custodial sentence for
killing an aboriginal pedestrian, is her sister's step son. Now,
the opposition spokesperson Chancey Paker joined me on the show

(10:23):
earlier in the week, saying that Boothby's lack of transparency
undermines public trust and the opposition is demanding that she
stepped down. Jared, do you support Minister Boothby here? Do
you think she's done the right thing?

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Look?

Speaker 4 (10:38):
I support her one hundred percent. She has done the
right thing. She followed the due process. In fact, from memory,
she actually called for harsher penalty on her step nephew.
I think that's how he's related.

Speaker 7 (10:47):
So I was at the press conference and asked the question.
She said that she supported the DPP's decision to appeal
both or I don't think the appeal had been confirmed
that stage, but she supported the DPP's decision to consider
an appeal in both the Danby case and the Alice
Springs baby case. What she didn't do, though, and what

(11:11):
surprised me, is that she didn't declare a conflict of interest.
I don't know why she didn't just come out and say, look,
I have a conflict of interest in this manner, so
I'm not going to talk about it.

Speaker 4 (11:19):
Well, she's declared it as through the process in relation
to the through the Chief Minister, and through what she's
did she declare it?

Speaker 1 (11:26):
What did she do?

Speaker 4 (11:27):
She spoke to the Chief Minister and told the Chief
Minister back, Remember this is in twenty four This is
a number of years ago, and it's gone through the
court process and it's in the court system now. So
I don't know how far we should talk about it,
but I think it's a bit rich for a Chancey
to be going talking for her to resign when you know,
you look at the stronger futures fell away from the
Federal that previous government they chose not to bring in
legislation about Alice Sings. Alice Springs was on fire. He

(11:48):
went and brought shares in a liquor company.

Speaker 7 (11:50):
Well yeah, and that's why that's one of the many,
many reasons why the Northern Territory Labor government were booted
out by voters unceremoniously over twelve months ago. But then that,
you know, if we're going to say, well, he shouldn't
have done that, I mean, in this case, I think
there's an I'm not saying she should be sacked.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (12:09):
I think that's probably a bridge too far. There's no
evidence that she actually intervened in the process here. But
if she's making public commentary about that issue in that case,
which involves someone who is you know, related to her,
then surely she needs to publicly declare that conflict of
interest before she makes those comments.

Speaker 4 (12:29):
Well, look, she's followed the due process. She's done what
she's got to do. She's Attorney General. I supporter, she's
doing a great job. Crime is going down. The territory
is a better place, So she's doing a good job.
And I think she's We've got a diverse team and
we all support her. And again she's got my support
one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
Look for me, as someone who's worked as a media advisor,
as a media manager, as a comms director for government department.
You know, like I looked at it and thought to myself,
if you've declared it to your boss, well why not
when you get asked about this out of press conference,
just be really upfront and go, Look, I do just
want to let everybody know that this is the situation.
You know, I have not interfered in any way, shape

(13:07):
or form. But if there's one thing that I have
learned through the media and throughout my you know, political life,
working for politicians, etc. Is that if you're not upfront,
it'll come back and it'll bite you on the ass
in some way or another. And that I think is
what we're seeing at this point in time. You know,
not being upfront at that press conference Matt that you
and I know others were asking her questions at And

(13:30):
this is where you give the opportunity to the opposition
to be able to you know, to then sort of
to sling that mud. And you know, as the opposition
is currently and rightfully doing it at this point questioning why
you you know, it wasn't declared. So, I mean, Doran,
do you think that it's sustainable for the attorney General

(13:50):
to stay in her position.

Speaker 6 (13:52):
No, I don't. I mean, this is a government we're
going to remember leading into twenty twenty four election about transparency, integrity,
and here we have the first law Officer of the
Northern Territory who should be held to the highest standards
when it comes to transparency, and in this case not
declare it to the public. I mean, she says she's

(14:13):
declared it to leave Finochio, but she only said that
when she got caught out. So I actually questioned Jared's
you know what he's saying around while she's followed all
due process, but he hasn't been able to show all
The government hasn't been able to show any evidence what
that due process is. I mean Jared stumbled on his
words only a week or so, I think it was

(14:33):
this week or last week around Well when did you
find out and he stumbled on his word? Oh, I
think it was maybe three or four weeks ago. I mean,
I would think if he did have due process in
this circumstances, you would know exactly when she put that
flow to the Chief Minister.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
But when did you find out, Jared?

Speaker 3 (14:54):
When did you know?

Speaker 4 (14:55):
I found out through the media A couple of weeks ago.
That's what I said. It wasn't, I think himself, it's
confused that I found out a couple of ks.

Speaker 6 (15:03):
You go through the media three or four weeks ago,
So I just show that's.

Speaker 4 (15:06):
Not what I said.

Speaker 6 (15:07):
You Also, because you're cutting you out, you're a deputy
Chief minister, you'll think that you would know about this
because it is a pretty serious case that before the court. Yeah,
going back before the courts, and I mean, as the
second in charge, I would expect you to know that
as well. And Lee's cutting you out or.

Speaker 4 (15:25):
We're a strong united team supporting each other, your team,
the shop. We are solid, we are together, and your
team is divided.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
One thing that I will say is you know, look, look,
I think you know at the end of the day,
it is incredibly important to be upfront as a politician,
to be as honest as you can be. There is
no doubt about that. But what we all like, the
thing is for me, what needs to actually be looked
into really closely. Here is this sentence and also the

(15:58):
sentence that was handed down to a teenager who fractured
a baby's skull during a violent home invasion in Alice Springs,
Now the eighteen year old avoided jail and was handed
a suspended two year sentence, sparking public outrage. Now the
Director of Public Prosecutions is well considering whether they are

(16:19):
going to appeal that, so that is currently being considered
as is. You know, we know that the Director of
Public Prosecutions had said with the Danby case that they
are appealing that sentence, calling it manifestly inadequate. Now, I've
got to say one thing that I know for sure
is that the public are sick and tired of feeling

(16:40):
as though there's not adequate sentencing for very serious crimes,
and that is the bigger issue to me. Yes, the
issue of the Attorney General is an important one. But
making sure that you know that the expectations from the
public are actually considered, I suppose when some of these

(17:00):
sentences are handed down, is really very important.

Speaker 7 (17:03):
And I'd add a third recent case to those that
you're mentioning, and that is the case that Harry Brill
from the ant News reported on a couple of weeks ago,
involving the rape of a thirteen year old girl by
a twenty eight year old man in a case where
she was promised to that man in a sort of
traditional marriage type arrangement and he was sentenced to a

(17:26):
minimum of two years in prison and I think that
is out of step with community expectation as well. And
after that case was reported on Robin Carl, the Minister
for the Prevention of Family Violence, did come out and
say that the government was considering or was looking at,
a review of the Sentencing Act. I think there's a
real issue there. And if you go back over time,

(17:47):
particularly when it comes to some domestic and sexual violence cases,
there are instances Katie, where men who have bashed their
partner's ex partners to death have received prison sentences of
as little as three years, and I think that is
massively out of whack with community expectation. I think the
Danby case is I think that was an appalling decision

(18:08):
and I agree with the DPP that it is manifestly inadequate.
You have a situation there where a man is dead, right,
he's been run over, and after that man has been killed,
the driver of that vehicle is sending text messages gloating
about what he has just done. Now he may have

(18:29):
subsequently shown remorse, but his initial reaction revealed in those
text messages was not one of remorse. It was all, well,
I better be careful what I say. But it was
those text messages were absolutely appalling and the fact that
he avoided a jail sentence in that situation. I don't
I don't think I haven't spoken to one person in

(18:51):
the community.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
You thinks that's okay.

Speaker 4 (18:53):
Look, we certainly are looking at the Sentencing Act and
all options on the table, but you're right about the
community expectation. And that's why when in the last year
our government has changed BARLAC twice because bail was an
issue when we come into office and people were just
walking out the door. There's a revolving door, I think.
I think in cases where people were on bail twenty
thirty times, so we came in, we fixed it, and
then there's still more issues, so we came in and

(19:15):
we fixed it again. And you're right. The courts need
to look at themselves as well in mation to their decisions.
Because we talk about managment minimum. A lot of these
sentences have got really high maximum sentences and it's up
to the courts to be able to decide on.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
What I mean is that what the government needs to
look at here mandatory changing some of the mandatory minimum
sentences for some offenses.

Speaker 4 (19:33):
Look, all options are on the table because we want
to make sure that the human expectation is meant in
court decisions. And we know that we've got the separation
of powers. We know that the judges appointed for a
long time for life essentially, and they do their job,
but we need to make sure that the decisions they make. Remember,
the government make the law. Courts interpret the law. I mean,
they're not doing that. It's our job as the government

(19:54):
to make sure that those decisions are in line with
the comumity expectation, and we will do that.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
You're a lawyer.

Speaker 7 (19:59):
I've read some of the review that was done i
think in twenty twenty one in relation to sentencing and
mandatory sentencing and the legal profession. Almost most of the
legal profession seems to think that mandatory sentencing is a
bad idea and they don't like it, and that judges
should have the discretion about what minimum sentence is handed
to someone who's convicted in the court of law. What's

(20:22):
your view on that.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
Look, mandatory sentencing is about community expectation. We need to
send a message to the community that the government had
got their backs, and more importantly, we need to send
a message to the courts that some of their decisions
aren't where they should be. So if the courts would
actually look at the decisions and make decisi in line
with expectations, there wouldn't be any mandatory sentencing. But clearly
it's not so gay Like it said earlier, it's our job
as government to make sure that people get the right

(20:45):
appropriate sentences in line with community expectation, and if the
law needs to be changed, we will do that.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
I mean, Dran, you know, as Matt's sort of touched
on the you know, mandatory sentencing over the years has
almost been regarded as you know, a dirty would But
when you look at these cases, when you look at
some of what has happened in terms of those sentences,
do you think that we need to look at some
kind of minimum mandatory sentence when you're talking about really
serious crimes like the ones that we've spoken about this morning.

Speaker 6 (21:15):
Look, yeah, there's those serious crimes have mentioned, especially around
the Jake Danby one with the team that fractured a
baby's scale. That's a pretty serious offense. Also the one
where the young person attorney general's family member ran over
those two people. Yeah, calling on with those text messages

(21:36):
was pretty appalling with those sentences. But any any acts
that come to Parliament, you know, they need to be
considered by us as opposition. And what we've routinely seen
over the last year is the government bringing in pieces
of legislation on urgency, then offering us I suppose briefing

(22:01):
a few hours before they even go through, and in
a lot of cases not even having a piece of
legislation in front of us so we can actually go
through to consider what we're actually passing in Parliament. And
then what we're seeing is when the bills are going
through their process in Parliament, they go into a thing

(22:22):
called consideration in detail, and that allows the opposition and
the Crossbence to ask those questions to each clause and
the Government just keeps coming back or the minister who's
responsible for those pieces of actual going oh, well that's
not relevant, that's not relevant. But that's an important part
of the process to ensure that the courts, the judges

(22:46):
are guided by those pieces of clause when they're interpreted
in the law of court, and the government just avoid
answering any of those questions.

Speaker 4 (22:55):
It's a bit rich for trying to say that, Katie,
because we brought in legislation to bring back man if
you see any thing, and labor didn't support it. See
that they're calling for humanity expectation and sentencing, Well, they
had an opportunity to sup and they didn't support it.
When we come in this year, it's a bit rich
for them to come out and say that these sentences
don't out when they don't support changes for legislation that

(23:16):
bring in like community to be taken to the job.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
And just talking about some of the legislative changes that
we have seen, I mean we were We have also
seen the latest crime statistics that have come out just recently, Matte.
You have gone through them a little bit more extensively
than I while on leave. But some areas we are
sort of seeing some real well you're seeing some impact.
I guess it's safe to say it.

Speaker 7 (23:37):
Certainly appears that way, Katie. I mean, I would say,
for the first time in a long time, it looks
like there is a downward trend when it comes to
a lot of these areas. Property crime is down I
think eleven point six percent in Darwin over the seven
months first seven months of this year compared to the
first seven months of last year. You know, it's also

(23:57):
down in Alae Springs. Crimes again against the person I
think are up slightly when you compare the seven month period.
But if you look from you know, the beginning of
this year and you look at the latest number, I
think there were nine hundred and twenty three crimes against
the person in July twenty twenty five. That is the
lowest number for any month since police started recording the
crime stats through the surpro system. So you know, I

(24:22):
think there is I'm not sure whether you call it
evidence yet, but there's certainly some signs that the government's
policies are working, which I think is interesting given most
of the criticism of the government has been that they're
not following an evidence based approached. I just think that's
a furfe that argument. I think, you know, when we

(24:44):
hear people talk about this evidence evidence based approach to
addressing crime, I think we implemented a lot of those
policies following the twenty seventeen Royal Commission that we were
told were based on evidence I would see crime reduce,
and what we saw was the opposite.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
Occurve the total that occur and unfortunately the community really
felt the impacts of that in more ways than one.
Look one of the other areas where the Northern Territory
government has faced some criticism in recent weeks, and an
open letter going out as well to the government is
on the oc spray. Now, some were probably saying I
told you so throughout this week, as we then saw

(25:20):
a situation over the weekend where a teenager sprayed security
guards upon being refused entry to a Darwin nightclub. Now,
the teenager sprayed two guards at the Maybury in the
early hours of Sunday morning, getting one in the forehead
the other in the back. The sixteen year old has
since pleaded guilty to two counts of aggravated assault and

(25:40):
one of using a prohibited weapon. That's according to the paper,
and is expected to be sentenced today. In fact, so
in this story by Harry Brill, it also said that
lawyers made a bid for bail, but the judge said
that would require careful consideration as the teen also allegedly
used pepper spray to threaten and rob someone in June

(26:04):
and was granted bail for that matter. So look to me,
I look at it and go, Well, if you're determined
to get your hands on some OC spray for the
wrong reasons, you're going to get your hands on the
OC spray for the wrong reasons. If you're determined to
get your hands on an edged weapon for the wrong reasons,
you're probably going to get them on an edged weapon
for the wrong reasons. I've been one of the people saying, look,

(26:25):
I'm a woman who feels unsafe at different times when
I go for a run. So if I want to
go and purchase some OC spray, sorry to the wonderful
gentleman listening to the show and new blokes in the
studio and on the phone, but I'm not going to
be told that I can't buy a man's six foot tall.
No I haven't yet, and that's funny, you know, well
five eleven six foot tall, but able to look after yourself.

(26:46):
And look, I've not rushed out to go and buy it,
because I'm not feeling unsafe at the moment, but it
would just take one run for me where i feel
like I'm being followed or something go on that I
think I'm going to go in and get myself a
little canister just in case. I don't want to have
to use it, but just in case. But as I said,
I know people have been saying, told you so, well.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Well.

Speaker 7 (27:07):
The flip side to the argument with the guy who
sprayed the bounces is, you know, a couple of weeks ago,
I think only a week or so after the trial began,
there was an incident in Coconut Grove where a guy
was threatened. He tried to intervene. There was an altercation
going on. He tried to intervene and break it up,
and someone came at him and.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
He pulled out his pepper spray.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
Didn't spray it, but just pulled it out.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Right, and the guys ran away.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
So there you go.

Speaker 7 (27:36):
That said that said, I don't always will well, I
am envisaging that at some point we are going to
get a situation where where there will.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Be the misuse of that particular product.

Speaker 4 (27:47):
Look, I see spray as a trial for twelve months
and no one's forcing you to buy it. You can
go and get it if you want to. I went
and brought some. I've got some in my car. I've
got it there just in case, and I encourage people,
if you feel like you need it, go and buy it.
If you don't want it, don't buy. It's pretty simple,
and maybe there will be someone who uses it in
the wrong way, But there are a lot of other
things out there you can buy off the shelf that
you can hurt people with. And would you want someone

(28:07):
to do with a machete or OC spray. It's a
balancing act. But back to those crime figures quickly, they
are on the way down, and I think people are
feeling safer generally right across the turity. People talk to
me a lot. It's a big ship to turn around,
and we're going to keep at it. We're going to
keep working hard because there's still a lot of work
to be done in relation to that crime space.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Duran, I know the union earlier this week areon early
really she called on the government's OC spray trial to
be scrapped after this situation with the teenager. What do
you think?

Speaker 6 (28:39):
Yeah, look, and I do want to acknowledge what you
mentioned about how you feel Katie and other people may
feel do feel unsafe, I should say in the community,
and I totally understand that. But you know, we've kind
of been warning the government that it's not the right
way to go to deal with tricky situations kind of escalating.

(29:03):
I suppose not a weapon, but that's something that can escalate,
Like we've heard about that man to intervene with a
fight and then they've come at him, and that's kind
of escalated. And that was the concern that we've had,
you know, for a while.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Look, I will say I have it has just been
reminded to me by a listener as well that the
youth was not using the legally available spray he'd purchased.
That spray not available in the Northern Territory. I've got
a message from somebody else who said, Katie, my mum
is seventy one years old. She runs ten k's every day.
She's a bloody legend doing that at seventy one. I
reckon and she bought some on day one. She has

(29:42):
it just in case and it helps her feel safe
and she's very happy to have it as an option.

Speaker 6 (29:50):
And I think that's no concern around this is that,
you know, if a perpetrator gets it in the hands
and then use it and then against the victim, and
then they can't they're blind and can't see what's going on,
and it just further escalates. But I will just pick
up on Jared Mayley's point earlier that you know he
said that he's purchased O C spray and it's currently
in his car. I thought that part of the purchase,

(30:11):
when you purchase this, you have to have it on
you at all times? Isn't that correct, Jared? That you shan't.
You can't just leave it in your on the person person.
So you're breaking your own rules, your own laws. When
you're purchased those sea spray and you've said you've left
it in your.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Car, you do?

Speaker 4 (30:27):
You do? You support the ice spray.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
It makes a good point, Jared, if they're the rules.

Speaker 5 (30:35):
Should you have it on you and you're saying it's
in your car on you?

Speaker 4 (30:41):
I have it in my car because I use my
car every day. And and that's to say.

Speaker 6 (30:45):
Right now you're in the studio, the legal requirement is
you need to have it on you well.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
And that that being the legal requirement. That's actually interesting,
isn't it, Because.

Speaker 5 (30:53):
I kind of think breaks into your car right now
and then takes that spray, then at.

Speaker 4 (30:58):
Breaking a lot more stuff in my card and noc sporil.

Speaker 6 (31:01):
It doesn't matter. The point is the rules. Are you
breaking your own rules? You don't even know your own
rules around O Sea spray.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Well there you go, all right, we're going to take
a very quick break. Well mate, we'll let Jared run
down to his car and get his OC spray. Maybe
you are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.
It is the week that was. Plenty more coming your
way this hour, Well you are listening to the week
that was if you've just joined us today, We've got
Matt Cunningham, Gered Mayley and we've also got Duran Young

(31:28):
on the line. Now there's plenty to discuss this week.
But we had a situation where nearly five thousand Northern
Territory public servants rejected the colp's proposed twenty twenty five
to twenty nine enterprise agreements. So the no vote will
it outweighed the roughly three thousand in support, highlighting growing
anger the opposition say over job security and workload pressure.

(31:52):
Now it comes as we know that we had allied
health staff who were rallying the day before yesterday at
Royalty In Hospital and also at Alice Springs Hospital. Look,
I think it's a fine line here in some ways
with our public servants because for many others who work
in the private sector around the community, we are not

(32:12):
in a situation where we're getting pay rises. And I
get that the cost of living is going up, but
it was three percent I believe each year. Please feel
free to correct me if I'm wrong. Now. Joe Hersey
then was on the show yesterday. She's the Minister Responsible
and she indicated that if the pay offer, well, if
they can't come to some kind of agreement, the government

(32:33):
will consider revising its wages policy and potentially taking the
matter to the Fair Work Commission. Now, I guess the
question there is or what's going to happen? You know
what will happen there? Will it be a situation where
they get a fair a deal or could it be worse?

Speaker 4 (32:48):
Well, exactly right. That's the Commission as a tribunal that
makes a decision in the end, because the process is
that you negotiate. If you can't reach a deal, it
goes off the Fair Work Everyone puts their case up
and then they make a decision. So that looks like
where it's heading. It may be there'll be more negotiations
on the eleventh hour. It happens on most occasions things
like that. So we know that CPI and Darwin is

(33:08):
at one point six I think at the moment last
financial year, the pay increase or offer is three percent,
which is basically almost double that, so we think it's
a fair deal. Unfortunately, we've got a massive debt. We
know that the previously over government froze wages and did
all sorts of things. We need to make sure that
we get the best for public servants, best for territory
and balance that against our balance sheet because we know

(33:31):
we've got a massive fifteen billion dollar debt. So we're
in a tough situation. We need to work hard to
resolve this because the public servants do a great job
and we need to ensure that they continue to work.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Look, I got to say I don't have a big
issue with frontline workers receiving a bit of a pay booster,
not to discredit any of our pen pushing friends that
listen to the show in the public service, but you
know there is still a pay offer on the table,
and as I said, I think it is a fine line.
I mean, Duran, I know that you guys have said
this is an embarrassing sit situation for the government, right now.
But I guess part of the reason while we're in

(34:04):
such an enormous amount of debt is because the Labor Party,
who were previously in power, was spending money willy nilly.

Speaker 6 (34:12):
Look, Katie, this is a pattern that we're seeing across
all industry across the Northern Territory when it comes to
negotiations around pay. Like we saw earlier in the year,
corrections officers show up around the privacization of corrections officers.
Jared Mayley himself was hiding in the chamber and couldn't
even go out and meet with corrections officers. We then

(34:34):
recently seen the police which has rejected the offer that
was put forward, and now we've seen the public service
reject the offer that has come forward. And I want
to give you a little bit of context of this
because when the CLP government first came into government, the
first thing they did in Parliament was except the four
percent offer for all of us as politicians. Now the

(34:56):
CLP government could have actually rejected that offer for that
four percent increase for us as politicians, I think they
should have rejected it. So what we're seeing now the
public service at three percent and that's been rejected and
these are our frontline workers, and yet the government are saying,
I know we deserve more of a pay rise, but you,

(35:18):
as frontline workers, don't deserve a three percent.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
So all the Polly's got a four percent pay rise,
but we're giving the public servants a three percent pay rise.
I will say the police, as I understand it, the
police have now reached an agreement on the on their
pay dispute. I thought that that had been reached. I
could be wrong, but I thought they'd reached that agreement.
But I mean, Jared, is that fair that you guys
got four percent and then you're expecting the general public

(35:42):
servants to only get three.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
But our pay is just settled by the tribunial that independently.
So I think on it, you're going to approve it.
And I was just going to say, Dran, did you
move a motion to it reject at pay increased? Drund
did your labor party? I don't, I don't remember. I
don't think you did. So you're here talking now, But
in reality, you you gave.

Speaker 7 (36:05):
Yourself four You're going to justify while you gave yourself
four percent and you're only giving thee I'm just.

Speaker 6 (36:12):
Happy, except you were the one in government and put
it through, And.

Speaker 4 (36:15):
Did you move a motion to say not reject it?
You did it, So now now you're talking.

Speaker 6 (36:21):
You rushed it through quietly. You didn't tell anyone because
you didn't want anyone to know. You didn't want to become.

Speaker 5 (36:26):
Public and now certainly public, you are.

Speaker 6 (36:29):
Trying to question me. You were in government, you had
the power.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
Well, you had the power to move emotion to reject it.
You didn't do it either, dr So you better look
at yourself.

Speaker 7 (36:37):
Well, even if we assume you're both as bad as
each other, why do you guys get four percent in
the public service only gets three?

Speaker 6 (36:45):
Well, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
No, no, Well, i'm.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
Asking him the question, Duran, I'm trying to get an answer.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
Yeah, because we're in a different We don't negotiate. Our
pay get set by a different probunal. They bring a
recommendation into Parliament either stiching, either except it and reject it.
No applications were made to rejected and got passed.

Speaker 7 (37:04):
Do you think that's fair though, I mean, regardless of
what the process is, do you think that's fair that
politicians get four and the public service gets three?

Speaker 4 (37:12):
It's a difficult situation, and I understand that the publicly.

Speaker 6 (37:16):
I would say this, No, I don't think it's fair.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
No, I don't think it is either. I certainly didn't
get a four percent pay rise.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
That's not bunny.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Sure, But hey, one area.

Speaker 5 (37:23):
Where let's be very honest here where we are on
very good salaries.

Speaker 6 (37:28):
We need to be honest and upfront about that. And
then yet you've come in and put that four percent
pay rise, which the government had control of at that time,
and rushed it through very carefully so it wouldn't get
media attention, so you know, and then here we are
rejecting the public service for a three percent pay rise
I think. And then going back to your comments around
the pay freees, well, the difference between now this one,

(37:51):
what I'm talking about now and then was all politicians
back then had to pay freeze as well. It's the
same as the public service. So we're just trying to
get remember that between the negotiations with it comes to EBA.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
Look, we are going to have to take a really
quick break because I'm keen to also talk about some
of the ambulance wait times in just a moment. So
we'll take a really quick break. You are listening to
Mix one O four nine's three sixty. It is the
week that was well, you are listening to the week
that wasn't If you've just joined us, we've got Matt Cunningham,
we've got Jared Maylee, and we've got Duran Young. Now, Jared,

(38:24):
you've received a bit of an update about the OC sprame,
whether you're allowed to leave it in your car or
not after we've accused you of breaking the law.

Speaker 4 (38:31):
Yes, I have received an update. You can lock an
in a secure location which includes your car or your house,
or you can carry on your person.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
I'd like to issue an unreserved apology.

Speaker 7 (38:42):
I've got an update too, though you got well, I'm
informed that the police gave themselves four point nine almost
five percent.

Speaker 6 (38:52):
Yeah, well I'm not sure exactly. I thought it was
four percent, But if it's four point nine, that's That's
the point of the matter I was trying to make
is that where the CLP government has given us a
higher pay rise than what we're giving to our frontline workers,
and I just don't think it's fair.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Well, fair call, I think Duran, fair call. Hey, I
want to just take you across though, to this story
that we've been covering throughout this week about ambulance wait times. Now,
the ABC were first to cover this situation where a
young dancer had waited about six hours for an ambulance
to arrive after dislocating her knee. Now, her mum had

(39:29):
called the paramedics to come and help, or Saint John
to come and help about eight fifteen. They weren't able
to get there until around two o'clock in the morning. Now,
I spoke to Saint John yesterday on the show. They
were really upfront about it. They came on the show.
They told me, Katie, we've got we had four of
our emergency ambulances on the road at that point in time,
and there were around thirty two incidences at that point

(39:53):
in time. They obviously have to triage things they were,
you know, they were incredibly apologetic that they were not
able to to get there sooner. But they also spoke
to me and gave me a bit of context when
it comes to the stress, the strain that paramedics that
all of Saint John are under, and also that our
hospital are under. Right now, they said that over a

(40:14):
three month period they had ambulances ramping so waiting outside
the hospital to get patients in for around twenty thousand
hours over that three month period, or maybe it was
two thousand hours. I will double check that I do
apologize because that's a big difference. But either way, it
was a massive, massive amount of time that they're waiting

(40:37):
for each and every day. Now I know, Chrystal it
was two thousand hours over three months. It's a huge
amount of time to be ramped outside the hospital waiting
for a patient to get a bit. Again, I will say,
I know that our health professionals do a tremendous job
with the resources that they have. But to me, when
we're talking about spending money, you know, when we're talking

(40:57):
about things like art galleries on the show yesterday, got
to tell you, if there's one area that I think
people want some money invested, it's into our health system
and making sure that when you're hurt, when you're injured,
when you need help, that you're able to get ash.

Speaker 4 (41:12):
That's correct, one hundred percent. Cardie and I fully agree.
We've been office a year and I've said on many
many fronts we've been here a chaotic mess on corrections,
on the police, on the court, and on the health
system and educator. There's a whole range of things, but
we've been working hard to try and fix that. Unfortunately
we don't have a huge money to we're going out
at the back like one, but we don't have one
of those and things do take time. Even we did

(41:34):
have unlimited money, it would take time to fix the
health system because staff shortages is an issue. No matter
what industry you talk about, health or anything at all,
staff's an issue right across Australia. So we're working on
that and now that's what we go back to our
crime to.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Pay them more, well, the Allied Health staff.

Speaker 4 (41:49):
That's what they call crime issue. People would come to
dar on and you know, we know that crime has
been a big issue and it's a number one priority
on our government. And we can fix that because then
that'll invite people who's come in stay because if someone
comes up to their professional maybe they'll bring up their
wife and their kids and we want them to have
a joyful experience. If they get bashed or they get
the castle and straight away they're not going to like

(42:10):
that and they want to leave, we got to or
as long as it's locked.

Speaker 6 (42:18):
That's the risk that you take well, look, in all.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
Seriousness, though, I like I get the point that you're making,
and that's something that we've spoken about for years on
this show, that you need to get the crime under
control so that people feel safe, they want to live
here and they want to stay here. But you also
need competitive wages. And when you look at the Allied
Health stuff, you know, the thing that they had said
to me on the show yesterday was that they aren't
competitive with other states. So then if you're trying to

(42:41):
get people to move here, all you're simply trying to
do is sell a lifestyle. Well, it's got to be
a bit more than that. You've got to have opportunity, remember,
is lower than.

Speaker 4 (42:49):
In other states as well.

Speaker 7 (42:50):
I remember talking to Kath Hatcher from the Nurses Union
maybe three or four years ago when the when the
previous government had implemented the pay freeze, and she said
at that time her concern was that the territories nursing
staff are basically going to go from some of the
best paid in the country to some of the worst
paid in the country. And then you're in a situation
where it becomes almost impossible to recruit people to work
here because you know, I can tell you from you, well,

(43:15):
not my own experience, but certainly from my wife's experience,
that working in a Northern Territory hospital is a far
more arduous task than working in a hospital in Melbourne
or Sydney or Brisbane. And so to attract people to
work in under those conditions where instead of having four
patients per staff member, you've got seven or more, where

(43:36):
you constantly run off your feet, where you're working with
some of the most complex patients in the country, you
need to pay your staff more under those conditions. And
I know I've over the years criticized the size of
the public service and the cost burden of the public service.
But back to your point that you made before, Katie,
when it comes to frontline staff, I think we're in

(43:56):
a position where we need to pay them competitive rates.
I think Victorian nurse has got a twenty eight percent
pay rise over.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Four years last wow.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (44:05):
And so we're just making ourselves uncompetitive and we're making
it more difficult to fill those roles that we desperately need.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
Look, a security guard, Brad from the Buffs Clubs, just
called in to Crystal to say they aren't getting a
pay rise and haven't for some time, and they do
all the walk work before frontline workers even get there,
and also work under government legislation. You know that's somebody
working in the private sector. Of course, who you know
who's dealing with I guess what a lot that work
in the private sector are dealing with, and that is

(44:34):
no pay increase. So I certainly hear what he's saying.
But look, that is all we've got time for this morning.
I really appreciate you all joining us on the show.
Acting Chief Minister of the Northern Territory Jared Mayley, thank
you so much for your time today.

Speaker 4 (44:48):
Thank you, Katie, and thank you to your listeners.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
Matt Cunningham from Sky News, thank you so much for
joining us this morning. Thanks Wolf and Daran Young the
deputy Opposition leader, but I think you're acting Opposition leader
as well. We've got all the leaders on this morning.
Duran Young, thank you for your time today.

Speaker 6 (45:05):
Yes, thank you r Katie, and to the listeners

Speaker 1 (45:07):
And to Matt and Jared, thanks mate, and well that
has been the week that was