April 13, 2026 • 8 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We know that INNT Health have vowed to crack down
on violence in hospitals after that chaotic incident inside Royal
daw And Hospital's emergency department where a group of people
were involved in a fight in the waiting area. Now,
no one was injured, but the incident has renewed concerns
about the rising level of aggression facing frontline staff across
(00:20):
the Northern Territory. And joining me now is the president
of the Australian Medical Association here in the Northern Territory,
Doctor John Zorbis.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Good morning, Doctor Zorbis.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Good morning Katie. Good morning to listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Now, doctor, can you describe for us what happened last
week with this brawl inside the emergency waiting room.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, members have come to us some fairly distressed about
the fact that a large group of people altercation for
whatever reason, has resolved in decent violence in an area
where people have come to seek help and healthcare. We
know that police needed to be contacted several times. We
know that intoxication was a big factor and at the
(01:00):
end of the day, frontline healthcare workers have come to harm.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Goodness, mate, Like, do you know how many people were involved?
Presumably like it sounds like it was pretty scary stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Absolutely, when you've got you know, several people in a
contained area, you know, a pressure cooker environment like the
ED kicking off, that can be very hard to control.
The word brawl is an appropriate way to describe it.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, we from.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Your perspective, and you and I have spoken about these,
like just two weeks ago we spoke about the nurses'
union raising their concerns about safety in ED. From your perspective,
a doctor's and frontline style feeling less safe at work
right now.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
This is a problem that has carried on for a
long long time all over Australia, not just a Darwin problem,
but we do feel it especially in Darwin. And the
reason we do is because we've got a really thin workforce.
You know, we can't afford any level of burnout. And
when people come to work and they're facing these types
of situations, they start asking questions about why they're coming
in to work. There's there's certainly a part of a
(02:02):
job culture in health care and where you know, violence
has just been accepted as an occupational hazard. Now we
completely reject that there's underreporting because when people do report
it takes forever, and they don't get the response as
quickly and as accurately as they'd like, and so you know,
next time around they're like, well, why am I going
to spend fifteen minutes making a report when nothing's going
(02:23):
to happen. So, you know, there's a bit of this
sort of normalization of disaster that makes it really hard
to fix. But there's certainly things we could be doing
to move things forward. Absolutely, I know that.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Int health sites, this is a community issue, not just
a healthcare one.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Do you agree with that? And what do you reckon
needs to change?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Yeah, look, I agree with them on that partly in
that you know, nobody is forcing someone to come to
an emergency department drunk and assault a health care worker.
You know's nothing that forces anyone to do that. And
there's plenty of people who come to the emergency department
drunk or intoxicated who don't assault us, you know, So
it is there is a community fact there as well
in the way we behave in our hospitals really needs
(03:02):
to We need to take a good hard look at
how we manage that. But equally, we know there are
things that make environments worse for this type of behavior.
So we know that, you know, we've talked a lot
about RDH being an aging facility and our emergency departments
aren't really fun places to be, right and then with them,
I say that a bit tongue in cheek. You know,
you don't go to hospital for fun. But equally, there
(03:23):
are ways we can make the environment a bit more
resistant to this kind of violence and to people kicking off.
We've spoken a lot about access block and bed block.
Now it is really is the root of all evil
in our hospitals. If you're stuck in the emergency department
for you know, hours or days, of course that's going
to lead to more violence and more aggression. Of course
it is. So the longer people have to stay in
(03:44):
the emergency department, the worse. We know, the worst sort
of incidences of violence we see against healthcare workers.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I mean, it's like it's a bit of a it's
I don't know how to describe it. Like we're just
in a situation at the moment as well, where you know,
you talk about that bad block, you talk about people
getting access to you know, to a bed, and then
we talk about, you know, the funding needs that we
have in the Northern Territory as well, and we know
that the budget is going to be handed down by
the federal government in a few weeks time. The CEO
(04:13):
of NT Health as well, when we spoke to him
last week, it had indicated to us that we may
not see funding for maternity, which you and I have
spoken about on numerous occasions until then. I mean, when
you look at funding larger than that or you know,
for for a new hospital for example, I just can't
see how we're going to get there, John, when we're
(04:34):
still you know, we're waiting like plubs for some funding,
you know, when it comes to maternity, despite the fact
we've been talking about and had concerns about it since
like the end of last year.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, look, you get what you pay for. We can't
just magically fix this without resourcing. And I you know,
there's only so much to go I need to go around.
I understand that. I know that there's a budget that
government needs to balance, but if we look at how
much has been invested in health, there's still a long
way to go. Part of that is commonwealth but also
we get to choose what we spend our money on.
In the NT, we don't have no money, and the
(05:08):
government will ultimately they decide what sits in the budget.
We've got our priorities. We think there's a lot of
areas in healthcare that are well below behind the starting line,
and we need to invest further in those areas. And ultimately,
you know, it comes down to the ballot box. Yeah,
but we will just you know, want Territorians to look
at this budget and remember where this money has been spent.
This is your health system, this is your healthcare system.
(05:29):
Territorians deserve doctors when they need doctors, and security in
our emergency departments is a part of that. And it's
also not a very expensive one to fix too. Let's
you know, building in your hospital is expensive. But there
are lots of things we can do that will make
the place, you know, our health care services, our centers,
our general practices, our clinics, our hospitals safe places to be.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
So tell me in terms of making them safer places
to be, what are some of those measures that could
be implemented pretty well immediately.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
So we've got some things that are going to require
changes to law, but we do have a majority government
who can change the law quickly when they need to
and when they think it's reasonable to do. So, I'll
paint this picture for you right now. If I go
to the Casarina shops and I walk into km Art,
they have the right to search me for weapons. Now
if you walk into the emergency department whilst we're still
waiting on legal advice to tell us with certainly, and
(06:18):
I'm not a lawyer, we don't really have the legal
right to search you for weapons when you come to
our hospitals. I'm not sure we've got the balance right
when cam Art and Roal Darwin are that disparate, right.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
That's insane, John, Like, that's insane.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah. Yeah, so that's you know, that's something that the
government could look at. And maybe maybe it's that we
need better legal advice and better protocols for our frontline staff.
Maybe we need legislative change. But that's a high priority
area for us.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, look, well we will make sure that we raise that.
I mean, I just think when you put it into
perspective like that, everybody be scratching their heads listening this morning, thinking,
hang on a second, how can you get searched before
you go in to Kmart? But you can't before you
go into the hospital, and we're seeing all of these
issues in the hospital. I know caught up with the
see of Health last week. You know, he said he
(07:03):
sort of doesn't want our security to be acting as
bouncers at the hospital, and I get that, but you're
also you want it to be a safe place for
everybody who has to attend.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, and we have to be really careful about how
we do this. We don't want our hospitals to be
you know, big militant places where you get pat down
before you come through our emergency departments. You know, ninety
nine percent of people are doing the right thing, but
our staff are very good at identifying when situations are
starting to escape, when you've got an individual who's intoxicated, aggressive,
starting to pose a threat. We want to make sure
(07:35):
that we've got the ability to protect ourselves and the
other patients in the department. And if that requires changes
to the law, then yes, you know, we need to
look at that. You know, sometimes there's a conflict if
you if you come to the hospital and you start
hitting staff and we have to kick you out and
we can't properly assess you. There's a tension there right
in that you had an injury that might end up being,
(07:56):
you know, a decent injury that needed treatment, but you
haven't been able to get treatment because you assaulted us.
I mean, we want to deliver the maximum amount of care,
but we can't do it by sacrificing the safety of
our own stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, yes, spot on.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Well Dr John Zorbis the head of the AMA here
in the Northern Territory. Always appreciate your time. I know
you're a busy man, and hats off to all of
the staff there at Royal Darwin Hospital and right across
the territory. I know you guys do an incredible job
under what can be really difficult circumstances.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I really appreciate. Okay, look, we love what we do,
we want to keep doing it and we want to
do it safely.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yes, spot on, Thanks John, We'll talk to you soon.
Thank you, Thank you.
We know that INNT Health have vowed to crack down
on violence in hospitals after that chaotic incident inside Royal
daw And Hospital's emergency department where a group of people
were involved in a fight in the waiting area. Now,
no one was injured, but the incident has renewed concerns
about the rising level of aggression facing frontline staff across
(00:20):
the Northern Territory. And joining me now is the president
of the Australian Medical Association here in the Northern Territory,
Doctor John Zorbis.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Good morning, Doctor Zorbis.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Good morning Katie. Good morning to listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Now, doctor, can you describe for us what happened last
week with this brawl inside the emergency waiting room.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, members have come to us some fairly distressed about
the fact that a large group of people altercation for
whatever reason, has resolved in decent violence in an area
where people have come to seek help and healthcare. We
know that police needed to be contacted several times. We
know that intoxication was a big factor and at the
(01:00):
end of the day, frontline healthcare workers have come to harm.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Goodness, mate, Like, do you know how many people were involved?
Presumably like it sounds like it was pretty scary stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Absolutely, when you've got you know, several people in a
contained area, you know, a pressure cooker environment like the
ED kicking off, that can be very hard to control.
The word brawl is an appropriate way to describe it.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, we from.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Your perspective, and you and I have spoken about these,
like just two weeks ago we spoke about the nurses'
union raising their concerns about safety in ED. From your perspective,
a doctor's and frontline style feeling less safe at work
right now.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
This is a problem that has carried on for a
long long time all over Australia, not just a Darwin problem,
but we do feel it especially in Darwin. And the
reason we do is because we've got a really thin workforce.
You know, we can't afford any level of burnout. And
when people come to work and they're facing these types
of situations, they start asking questions about why they're coming
in to work. There's there's certainly a part of a
(02:02):
job culture in health care and where you know, violence
has just been accepted as an occupational hazard. Now we
completely reject that there's underreporting because when people do report
it takes forever, and they don't get the response as
quickly and as accurately as they'd like, and so you know,
next time around they're like, well, why am I going
to spend fifteen minutes making a report when nothing's going
(02:23):
to happen. So, you know, there's a bit of this
sort of normalization of disaster that makes it really hard
to fix. But there's certainly things we could be doing
to move things forward. Absolutely, I know that.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Int health sites, this is a community issue, not just
a healthcare one.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Do you agree with that? And what do you reckon
needs to change?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Yeah, look, I agree with them on that partly in
that you know, nobody is forcing someone to come to
an emergency department drunk and assault a health care worker.
You know's nothing that forces anyone to do that. And
there's plenty of people who come to the emergency department
drunk or intoxicated who don't assault us, you know, So
it is there is a community fact there as well
in the way we behave in our hospitals really needs
(03:02):
to We need to take a good hard look at
how we manage that. But equally, we know there are
things that make environments worse for this type of behavior.
So we know that, you know, we've talked a lot
about RDH being an aging facility and our emergency departments
aren't really fun places to be, right and then with them,
I say that a bit tongue in cheek. You know,
you don't go to hospital for fun. But equally, there
(03:23):
are ways we can make the environment a bit more
resistant to this kind of violence and to people kicking off.
We've spoken a lot about access block and bed block.
Now it is really is the root of all evil
in our hospitals. If you're stuck in the emergency department
for you know, hours or days, of course that's going
to lead to more violence and more aggression. Of course
it is. So the longer people have to stay in
(03:44):
the emergency department, the worse. We know, the worst sort
of incidences of violence we see against healthcare workers.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I mean, it's like it's a bit of a it's
I don't know how to describe it. Like we're just
in a situation at the moment as well, where you know,
you talk about that bad block, you talk about people
getting access to you know, to a bed, and then
we talk about, you know, the funding needs that we
have in the Northern Territory as well, and we know
that the budget is going to be handed down by
the federal government in a few weeks time. The CEO
(04:13):
of NT Health as well, when we spoke to him
last week, it had indicated to us that we may
not see funding for maternity, which you and I have
spoken about on numerous occasions until then. I mean, when
you look at funding larger than that or you know,
for for a new hospital for example, I just can't
see how we're going to get there, John, when we're
(04:34):
still you know, we're waiting like plubs for some funding,
you know, when it comes to maternity, despite the fact
we've been talking about and had concerns about it since
like the end of last year.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, look, you get what you pay for. We can't
just magically fix this without resourcing. And I you know,
there's only so much to go I need to go around.
I understand that. I know that there's a budget that
government needs to balance, but if we look at how
much has been invested in health, there's still a long
way to go. Part of that is commonwealth but also
we get to choose what we spend our money on.
In the NT, we don't have no money, and the
(05:08):
government will ultimately they decide what sits in the budget.
We've got our priorities. We think there's a lot of
areas in healthcare that are well below behind the starting line,
and we need to invest further in those areas. And ultimately,
you know, it comes down to the ballot box. Yeah,
but we will just you know, want Territorians to look
at this budget and remember where this money has been spent.
This is your health system, this is your healthcare system.
(05:29):
Territorians deserve doctors when they need doctors, and security in
our emergency departments is a part of that. And it's
also not a very expensive one to fix too. Let's
you know, building in your hospital is expensive. But there
are lots of things we can do that will make
the place, you know, our health care services, our centers,
our general practices, our clinics, our hospitals safe places to be.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
So tell me in terms of making them safer places
to be, what are some of those measures that could
be implemented pretty well immediately.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
So we've got some things that are going to require
changes to law, but we do have a majority government
who can change the law quickly when they need to
and when they think it's reasonable to do. So, I'll
paint this picture for you right now. If I go
to the Casarina shops and I walk into km Art,
they have the right to search me for weapons. Now
if you walk into the emergency department whilst we're still
waiting on legal advice to tell us with certainly, and
(06:18):
I'm not a lawyer, we don't really have the legal
right to search you for weapons when you come to
our hospitals. I'm not sure we've got the balance right
when cam Art and Roal Darwin are that disparate, right.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
That's insane, John, Like, that's insane.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah. Yeah, so that's you know, that's something that the
government could look at. And maybe maybe it's that we
need better legal advice and better protocols for our frontline staff.
Maybe we need legislative change. But that's a high priority
area for us.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, look, well we will make sure that we raise that.
I mean, I just think when you put it into
perspective like that, everybody be scratching their heads listening this morning, thinking,
hang on a second, how can you get searched before
you go in to Kmart? But you can't before you
go into the hospital, and we're seeing all of these
issues in the hospital. I know caught up with the
see of Health last week. You know, he said he
(07:03):
sort of doesn't want our security to be acting as
bouncers at the hospital, and I get that, but you're
also you want it to be a safe place for
everybody who has to attend.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, and we have to be really careful about how
we do this. We don't want our hospitals to be
you know, big militant places where you get pat down
before you come through our emergency departments. You know, ninety
nine percent of people are doing the right thing, but
our staff are very good at identifying when situations are
starting to escape, when you've got an individual who's intoxicated, aggressive,
starting to pose a threat. We want to make sure
(07:35):
that we've got the ability to protect ourselves and the
other patients in the department. And if that requires changes
to the law, then yes, you know, we need to
look at that. You know, sometimes there's a conflict if
you if you come to the hospital and you start
hitting staff and we have to kick you out and
we can't properly assess you. There's a tension there right
in that you had an injury that might end up being,
(07:56):
you know, a decent injury that needed treatment, but you
haven't been able to get treatment because you assaulted us.
I mean, we want to deliver the maximum amount of care,
but we can't do it by sacrificing the safety of
our own stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, yes, spot on.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Well Dr John Zorbis the head of the AMA here
in the Northern Territory. Always appreciate your time. I know
you're a busy man, and hats off to all of
the staff there at Royal Darwin Hospital and right across
the territory. I know you guys do an incredible job
under what can be really difficult circumstances.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I really appreciate. Okay, look, we love what we do,
we want to keep doing it and we want to
do it safely.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yes, spot on, Thanks John, We'll talk to you soon.
Thank you, Thank you.
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