Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Had you heard the show yesterday you would have been
treated to a bit of a history lesson Kathleen and
I taking you for a walk down memory lane, only
about six weeks down memory lane, but certainly talking about
that timeline of funding which was promised to support increased
pressures on maternity now if he can believe it, despite
the former Chief Executive of Health being led to believe
(00:20):
that it would be in the budget, and then of
course the Member for Solomon Luke Gousling saying that it
would be in the mid year report, if not sooner,
it now appears well that's not even a guarantee. Now,
I didn't think we'd have to talk to him so
soon after the last time. But joining us live on
the line is doctor John Zorbis, the head of the
Australian Medical Association in the territory. Good morning to.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
You, John, Good morning cads or just move into the office,
did they Well, we're.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Probably a little bit less busy than what you are.
An emergency, I'm guessing yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, it's been absolutely flat out and again it's the
same story, right, it's a lot of good healthcare workers
delivering good care. Construction by infrastructure and listening to that
history lesson that you and Captain great job, by the way,
really good coverage as traumatic. It's just sad to think
that it's been this long and we're still no closer
to seeing appropriate funding for health infrastructure, both the ten
(01:15):
mil and the broader picture too. You know, nobody's done
a great job here. It's a poor job all round
by all sides of government, opposition in federal land local.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, let's talk about this ten million first off, and
then we'll go more broadly to the hospital. I mean,
can you believe that we're now at a point where
it's not even sure if that ten million dollars promised
to support maternity services is coming in the MAIFO, because
you know, obviously Luke Gosling had told us, yes it is,
it will be there in the MAIFO if not sooner.
But then on the ABC yesterday he did not say
(01:46):
the same thing.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, I can believe it. That doesn't make it okay.
So in the AMA, we have a long history of
not rewarding promises. We reward delivering an outcome, and the
listeners shouldn't reward promises either. Promises me nothing in healthcare
ten million here sixty seven million here, a billion over five.
They're all just numbers. What matters is what's actually happening
(02:11):
on the ground. Are things changing on the ground. Are
we getting the infrastructure we need? Are we getting the
stuff we need and we deliver safe, timely care to patients.
That's what matters.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So what is it going to mean when you talk
about that safe timely care to those that work on
the maternity ward at Royal Darwin Hospital if we don't
see some improvements and if we don't see some of
that infrastructure work done.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
The story maternity is very similar to the story across
the entire system in that aging infrastructure and poor systems
are being supported by good clinicians, doctors, nurses, allied health staff,
administrative staff. It's work around after workaround to get away
with the fact that they don't have what they need
to deliver the best care they can. Now they're still
(02:57):
delivering safe care, but it's not the best care that
they can and deliver, and it's not the care that
Territorians deserve. We should not be systemically disadvantage compared to
the rest of the country, and yet this is what
we face each week, each day that people walk into
places like our hospitals, like our health clinics, to take
care of territorians. What does it mean. It means everything
will be fine until it's not, because humans will continue
(03:19):
to prop it up, bail the system out, make sure
things are safe. That has a limit. One day we
will hit that limit. It'll be the front of the
NTEN news, it'll be national news, and the warning signs
are already there. We've got people leaving the system. We've
got a retention problem because very predictably people go, well,
I can't work like this. It's you know, I want
to stay here and I want to treat my patience,
(03:40):
but I also can't be complicit in something that I
don't think is the right way to do things. So,
you know, we will inch closer and closer and then
we will fall off a cliff.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Now I know that's you know, the situation with maternity
is something we've focused on quite a bit and there's
been quite a bit of discussion then about the sixty
seven million dollars provided this financial year that it could
be used to prop up, you know, the infrastructure on
the maternity ward at Royal Dalen Hospital that could be
used that it's untied to you know, actually get those
(04:12):
works underway. I mean, is it that simple when we're
also facing a massive overtime bill from what I learned
from estimates, and we also have other infrastructure that certainly
needs to be fixed.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah. And you know, there's a lot of in every
message that's coming out of everybody in this space. Some
of it is right and a lot of it is wrong. Yes,
ten million could be taken out of that sixty six
to sixty seven to pay for it. Once again, promise
not delivered. You know, until that money is in the bank,
I won't believe it. But the territory government can choose
to do that. And yes, it is the responsibility of
(04:48):
the territory government to maintain maternity services inside the territory.
But equally, which fire do you put out? And that
argument would be fine if the federal government had not
given Tasmania thirty five million. What's so different about us
that we should use the money that we need to
put out the many fires that we have because we
(05:08):
have the sickest people in the country, with the oldest
infrastructure in the country to deliver it, we're expected to
make do with that while the rest of the country
gets the Bailada. No that's not okay.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, I feel the same now, John, I do just
want to ask you quickly about this overtime bill. It
was it was reported in the Northern Territory News earlier
in the week. Following on from those estimates, hearings that well,
as of March, there was significant workforce shortages across NT Health,
including three hundred and ninety full time equivalent nursing vacancies,
(05:39):
one hundred and eighteen vacant aboriginal health practitioner roles, a
shortage of sixty two doctors. Now to manage the shortfall,
the department racked up a staggering forty three point eight
million overtime bill and we're forced to spend sixty six
point two million dollars on agency nursing staff alone.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
There's your money eating up in one hit. But just
as Kathleene pointed out yesterday, yeah it's wild and this
is I suppose this is what I mean when safe
care is being delivered. You know, when you don't have
enough staff to deliver a service, you don't get to
not deliver the service, and so the agency is forced
to hire agency staff. Local staff find ways to continue
to keep the lights on. And that's why, you know,
(06:22):
every time a politician gets up and says where it's
a record spend on health. You know, I spend more
on groceries each week. That doesn't mean I'm doing a
good job with the groceries. If I've got a trolley
full of biscuits, then I need vegetables like that. That's
you know, you can't just say, oh, we're spending more.
This is a This is a great example of why
we're spending more, right, because we've got to keep the
lights on with staff that cost more, rather than being
(06:45):
in a position where we can hire local staff, embed
them into the system and deliver a better service over
the long term.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, doctor John's orbis we also arelire in the week
estimates had heard. Will also heard and we spoke to
Sophia from our Birth Our Voice about the morphology scanner
which provides those routine mid pregnancy scans. And it's so
busy women are being told to drive three hours to Catherine.
You and I have spoken about this before. What is like,
(07:13):
you know, what would the reaction first off be to
this if this was happening in another capital city.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Do you think Oh, it wouldn't be Yeah, it'd be
a much stronger, much more visual reaction, wouldn't it. And
that is again I don't want to sound like a
broken record here with being in the NT and poor
me in the NT. But you know, we have a
lot of staff who comes to the NT from elsewhere.
You know, there's people who were born and bred here
and they live here and they've always lived here. And
(07:40):
in healthcare, we also have a lot of people who
have flown here. Some stay here for a few years,
some make it their new home. I'm one of the
latter category, love it, don elief. But you know, the
people who've lived elsewhere and still have that memory, can
they just sit there and they're like, this would never
happen anywhere else. You wouldn't have the side of a
hospital falling off and just no response from the rest
(08:00):
of the country, right. I don't think it's an exaggeration
when Territorians cry poor in that respect, Like I think
that is a fair reflection of the fact that we
are far far away, we're smaller, we're easier to gossover,
and I don't think it's unfair to say that.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
What do you like? What are the consequence consequences if
a woman cannot get in for one of those scans.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Look, again, this is broader than just maternity. There's consequences
to everything, and again there's work arounds to everything as well.
But and you know in this case, when you've got
mothers being told to drive through us, Catherine like, that's
an example of a workaround. Either way. Every time we
can't deliver what we want to deliver in healthcare, that
increases the risk of patients.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
It's like it is really tough. Now we're just being
told as well. Apparently the Health Minister Steve Edgington said
on ABC Darwin a little bit earlier this morning that
that's sixty six million dollars that we keep talking about.
We don't have that funding yet as it is a
small States agreement extra under the National Hospital Funding Agreement,
so not yet, that's not yet been signed under the
(09:04):
Commonwealth timing, we would not get it until February once
it's signed.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, and you know this billion dollars over five years,
it's not actually a billion dollars over five years. A
lot are those contingent on bits inside the agreement being
accepted to. So there is a small state's uplift. Now,
my understanding there is that that's only there for another
two years. It has to be agreed to extend for
the final three years. So it's not fair to say
that we've got a billion dollars over five years. It's
(09:31):
not money in the bank. It's not completely confirmed. It's
just you know, how many numbers, how many numbers have
been thrown around on your show in the last nine
months when it comes to healthcare funding and you know,
everybody's blaming each other. It's like when your kid comes
to you and says, well, you know, hit me first, Great, okay,
I don't need you to dub on your brother. I
(09:51):
need you to clean your room. Slash fun health infrastructure properly.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
You know, have you been watching things at my house?
Have you? It sounds like my son and daughter in
the morning. Hey, now, I want to talk a bit
more broadly about this discussion when it comes to this
in the hospital and whether we're going to get a
new hospital. Obviously the Health Minister, Steve Edgington had said
during estimates that you know that it's where he's ruled
(10:16):
out a new hospital in the short term, given these
two years left in the term. What did you think
of that response?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, not a good response. Are we building a new hospital?
I think the short answer is no. Is what he says.
I need to know what that means. Two and a
half years is plenty of time to start the planning, fight, selection, design,
groundworks on a new hospital. And that's a big part
of it.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
And that was the whole reason I thought that. You
know that the former CEO had moved into another role.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, and I've said this on your show and on ABC.
If this new role, it's this new office is about
solving this problem, fantastic. If it's not resourced to do
its job, then what is the point of it. Two
and a half years, there's plenty of time to start
building a new hospital. Should have started yesterday. We can
definitely do that now. Yeah, you can't finish building one
in two and a half years, but that should be
(11:06):
obvious to anybody. But we can start the planning now,
We can start the work now. You don't start with
the first brief, to start with the plan ye, spot.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
On who should be planning it and who should be
paying for us Cooh.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, so good question. It's important to understand where the
responsibility lies. Firstly, the federal government is not going to
start this for us. We have to start it. The
NT government has to start it and get on with
the job of building a new top end hospital. That's
our responsibility. But in terms of who pays for it,
that's a bit trickier, I think. So if you look
at all the public hospitals that have been built in
(11:39):
the last thirty years in Australia, about half of them
have been built with state treasury money. The government just
pays for it, builds it and is responsible for maintaining it.
The other half, and we're talking about hospitals like Royal Adelaide,
like the Newport's Gray Hospital, are built using a public
private partnership, a model that's called Design Build Finance Man
to maintain DBFM. That means is private sector a consortium
(12:02):
builds it. They keep the lights on, they repair the
roof when the cyclone kits, but the government runs the household.
They employ and put the doctors in, the nurses, They
provide the free public health care. So the government pays
the private sector a set monthly fee. Think of it
like rent. This is essentially the biggest rent to own
scheme in Australia and over thirty years you make those
(12:23):
payments and the government owns the facility the end of it.
They also get to dock it. If the private consortium
doesn't do their job, they don't maintain it, they don't
have to make those payments. It really is a lot
like renting a host. So the private sector builds and
runs the building and the public sector runs the medicine.
This is what we've done with the RAH, this is
what we've done with Footscrades, this is what we've done
(12:44):
with a lot of major hospitals. Ultimately, the responsibility for
hospitals lies with the state territory government. But I do
think Rolled Downe Hospital is different and the reason is
because it's an Australian asset. No one outside Darlin's going
to start the ball rolling shore. This is a hospital
that provides care to the North of Wa, to the
north of Queensland. Is a critical military asset. It's a
(13:07):
huge part of defending the North and reaches into Southeast Asia.
This is not a hospital. You know, Footscrao Hospital doesn't
have to do that. Be Under Stanley Hospital doesn't have
to do that. So roll Daleen Hospital is expected to
do a lot of heavy lifting for Australia and so
while the Commonwealth doesn't really pay for new hospitals, I
do think there is a case here that can be made.
And this is what we've been arguing for is this
(13:28):
is not just about Darwin. It's not even just about
the nt ROLL. Dalen Hospital is an Australian asset and
for a jurisdiction that has a tax base like ours,
trying to provide a service not just interstate but overseas
like that's not a fair ask. So where does the money?
You know, what does that amount? I don't know. That's
for both governments to sit down and work out. But
I do think it's not fair to expect just us
(13:50):
to pay for it, but we are responsible for starting it.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, well, doctor John Zorbis, it is always interesting to
catch up. Hey, before I let you go really quick
one totally off topic. We're giving away some lamb based
fishing guides a little bit later on the show. I've
been asking people what's your biggest catch? What have you
called recently a fish? Any fish? I do?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
The last thing I call was a black tip brief
shirt and it was beautiful and we put it back,
but it was a lovely it's a lovely creature. I've
not caught a metery though, that's still on Moley.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, it's pretty gloy, isn't it? What you can fish
for in the Northern Territory. Certainly it makes things fun.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah. No, it's again just such a good part of
the country to be in. And you know, it's it's
a shame that I don't get to talk about that
and I have to come here and talk about the
lack of infrastructure funding.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I know, I know, doctor John zorbas So I feel
the same, mate. Imagine if all we spoke about all
morning was fishing and having fun in it be good,
wouldn't it.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
That'd be great.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I'd love that, John. It's always good to catch up
with you. Thank you so much for your time. I
really appreciate your input over the last few weeks.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Thanks Katie, and thanks for keeping help on the dial.
I think it's hugely important.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, I think it is as well. Thank you. That
is doctor John Zorbist. There
Had you heard the show yesterday you would have been
treated to a bit of a history lesson Kathleen and
I taking you for a walk down memory lane, only
about six weeks down memory lane, but certainly talking about
that timeline of funding which was promised to support increased
pressures on maternity now if he can believe it, despite
the former Chief Executive of Health being led to believe
(00:20):
that it would be in the budget, and then of
course the Member for Solomon Luke Gousling saying that it
would be in the mid year report, if not sooner,
it now appears well that's not even a guarantee. Now,
I didn't think we'd have to talk to him so
soon after the last time. But joining us live on
the line is doctor John Zorbis, the head of the
Australian Medical Association in the territory. Good morning to.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
You, John, Good morning cads or just move into the office,
did they Well, we're.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Probably a little bit less busy than what you are.
An emergency, I'm guessing yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, it's been absolutely flat out and again it's the
same story, right, it's a lot of good healthcare workers
delivering good care. Construction by infrastructure and listening to that
history lesson that you and Captain great job, by the way,
really good coverage as traumatic. It's just sad to think
that it's been this long and we're still no closer
to seeing appropriate funding for health infrastructure, both the ten
(01:15):
mil and the broader picture too. You know, nobody's done
a great job here. It's a poor job all round
by all sides of government, opposition in federal land local.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, let's talk about this ten million first off, and
then we'll go more broadly to the hospital. I mean,
can you believe that we're now at a point where
it's not even sure if that ten million dollars promised
to support maternity services is coming in the MAIFO, because
you know, obviously Luke Gosling had told us, yes it is,
it will be there in the MAIFO if not sooner.
But then on the ABC yesterday he did not say
(01:46):
the same thing.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, I can believe it. That doesn't make it okay.
So in the AMA, we have a long history of
not rewarding promises. We reward delivering an outcome, and the
listeners shouldn't reward promises either. Promises me nothing in healthcare
ten million here sixty seven million here, a billion over five.
They're all just numbers. What matters is what's actually happening
(02:11):
on the ground. Are things changing on the ground. Are
we getting the infrastructure we need? Are we getting the
stuff we need and we deliver safe, timely care to patients.
That's what matters.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So what is it going to mean when you talk
about that safe timely care to those that work on
the maternity ward at Royal Darwin Hospital if we don't
see some improvements and if we don't see some of
that infrastructure work done.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
The story maternity is very similar to the story across
the entire system in that aging infrastructure and poor systems
are being supported by good clinicians, doctors, nurses, allied health staff,
administrative staff. It's work around after workaround to get away
with the fact that they don't have what they need
to deliver the best care they can. Now they're still
(02:57):
delivering safe care, but it's not the best care that
they can and deliver, and it's not the care that
Territorians deserve. We should not be systemically disadvantage compared to
the rest of the country, and yet this is what
we face each week, each day that people walk into
places like our hospitals, like our health clinics, to take
care of territorians. What does it mean. It means everything
will be fine until it's not, because humans will continue
(03:19):
to prop it up, bail the system out, make sure
things are safe. That has a limit. One day we
will hit that limit. It'll be the front of the
NTEN news, it'll be national news, and the warning signs
are already there. We've got people leaving the system. We've
got a retention problem because very predictably people go, well,
I can't work like this. It's you know, I want
to stay here and I want to treat my patience,
(03:40):
but I also can't be complicit in something that I
don't think is the right way to do things. So,
you know, we will inch closer and closer and then
we will fall off a cliff.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Now I know that's you know, the situation with maternity
is something we've focused on quite a bit and there's
been quite a bit of discussion then about the sixty
seven million dollars provided this financial year that it could
be used to prop up, you know, the infrastructure on
the maternity ward at Royal Dalen Hospital that could be
used that it's untied to you know, actually get those
(04:12):
works underway. I mean, is it that simple when we're
also facing a massive overtime bill from what I learned
from estimates, and we also have other infrastructure that certainly
needs to be fixed.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah. And you know, there's a lot of in every
message that's coming out of everybody in this space. Some
of it is right and a lot of it is wrong. Yes,
ten million could be taken out of that sixty six
to sixty seven to pay for it. Once again, promise
not delivered. You know, until that money is in the bank,
I won't believe it. But the territory government can choose
to do that. And yes, it is the responsibility of
(04:48):
the territory government to maintain maternity services inside the territory.
But equally, which fire do you put out? And that
argument would be fine if the federal government had not
given Tasmania thirty five million. What's so different about us
that we should use the money that we need to
put out the many fires that we have because we
(05:08):
have the sickest people in the country, with the oldest
infrastructure in the country to deliver it, we're expected to
make do with that while the rest of the country
gets the Bailada. No that's not okay.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, I feel the same now, John, I do just
want to ask you quickly about this overtime bill. It
was it was reported in the Northern Territory News earlier
in the week. Following on from those estimates, hearings that well,
as of March, there was significant workforce shortages across NT Health,
including three hundred and ninety full time equivalent nursing vacancies,
(05:39):
one hundred and eighteen vacant aboriginal health practitioner roles, a
shortage of sixty two doctors. Now to manage the shortfall,
the department racked up a staggering forty three point eight
million overtime bill and we're forced to spend sixty six
point two million dollars on agency nursing staff alone.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
There's your money eating up in one hit. But just
as Kathleene pointed out yesterday, yeah it's wild and this
is I suppose this is what I mean when safe
care is being delivered. You know, when you don't have
enough staff to deliver a service, you don't get to
not deliver the service, and so the agency is forced
to hire agency staff. Local staff find ways to continue
to keep the lights on. And that's why, you know,
(06:22):
every time a politician gets up and says where it's
a record spend on health. You know, I spend more
on groceries each week. That doesn't mean I'm doing a
good job with the groceries. If I've got a trolley
full of biscuits, then I need vegetables like that. That's
you know, you can't just say, oh, we're spending more.
This is a This is a great example of why
we're spending more, right, because we've got to keep the
lights on with staff that cost more, rather than being
(06:45):
in a position where we can hire local staff, embed
them into the system and deliver a better service over
the long term.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, doctor John's orbis we also arelire in the week
estimates had heard. Will also heard and we spoke to
Sophia from our Birth Our Voice about the morphology scanner
which provides those routine mid pregnancy scans. And it's so
busy women are being told to drive three hours to Catherine.
You and I have spoken about this before. What is like,
(07:13):
you know, what would the reaction first off be to
this if this was happening in another capital city.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Do you think Oh, it wouldn't be Yeah, it'd be
a much stronger, much more visual reaction, wouldn't it. And
that is again I don't want to sound like a
broken record here with being in the NT and poor
me in the NT. But you know, we have a
lot of staff who comes to the NT from elsewhere.
You know, there's people who were born and bred here
and they live here and they've always lived here. And
(07:40):
in healthcare, we also have a lot of people who
have flown here. Some stay here for a few years,
some make it their new home. I'm one of the
latter category, love it, don elief. But you know, the
people who've lived elsewhere and still have that memory, can
they just sit there and they're like, this would never
happen anywhere else. You wouldn't have the side of a
hospital falling off and just no response from the rest
(08:00):
of the country, right. I don't think it's an exaggeration
when Territorians cry poor in that respect, Like I think
that is a fair reflection of the fact that we
are far far away, we're smaller, we're easier to gossover,
and I don't think it's unfair to say that.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
What do you like? What are the consequence consequences if
a woman cannot get in for one of those scans.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Look, again, this is broader than just maternity. There's consequences
to everything, and again there's work arounds to everything as well.
But and you know in this case, when you've got
mothers being told to drive through us, Catherine like, that's
an example of a workaround. Either way. Every time we
can't deliver what we want to deliver in healthcare, that
increases the risk of patients.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
It's like it is really tough. Now we're just being
told as well. Apparently the Health Minister Steve Edgington said
on ABC Darwin a little bit earlier this morning that
that's sixty six million dollars that we keep talking about.
We don't have that funding yet as it is a
small States agreement extra under the National Hospital Funding Agreement,
so not yet, that's not yet been signed under the
(09:04):
Commonwealth timing, we would not get it until February once
it's signed.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, and you know this billion dollars over five years,
it's not actually a billion dollars over five years. A
lot are those contingent on bits inside the agreement being
accepted to. So there is a small state's uplift. Now,
my understanding there is that that's only there for another
two years. It has to be agreed to extend for
the final three years. So it's not fair to say
that we've got a billion dollars over five years. It's
(09:31):
not money in the bank. It's not completely confirmed. It's
just you know, how many numbers, how many numbers have
been thrown around on your show in the last nine
months when it comes to healthcare funding and you know,
everybody's blaming each other. It's like when your kid comes
to you and says, well, you know, hit me first, Great, okay,
I don't need you to dub on your brother. I
(09:51):
need you to clean your room. Slash fun health infrastructure properly.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
You know, have you been watching things at my house?
Have you? It sounds like my son and daughter in
the morning. Hey, now, I want to talk a bit
more broadly about this discussion when it comes to this
in the hospital and whether we're going to get a
new hospital. Obviously the Health Minister, Steve Edgington had said
during estimates that you know that it's where he's ruled
(10:16):
out a new hospital in the short term, given these
two years left in the term. What did you think
of that response?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, not a good response. Are we building a new hospital?
I think the short answer is no. Is what he says.
I need to know what that means. Two and a
half years is plenty of time to start the planning, fight, selection, design,
groundworks on a new hospital. And that's a big part
of it.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
And that was the whole reason I thought that. You
know that the former CEO had moved into another role.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, and I've said this on your show and on ABC.
If this new role, it's this new office is about
solving this problem, fantastic. If it's not resourced to do
its job, then what is the point of it. Two
and a half years, there's plenty of time to start
building a new hospital. Should have started yesterday. We can
definitely do that now. Yeah, you can't finish building one
in two and a half years, but that should be
(11:06):
obvious to anybody. But we can start the planning now,
We can start the work now. You don't start with
the first brief, to start with the plan ye, spot.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
On who should be planning it and who should be
paying for us Cooh.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, so good question. It's important to understand where the
responsibility lies. Firstly, the federal government is not going to
start this for us. We have to start it. The
NT government has to start it and get on with
the job of building a new top end hospital. That's
our responsibility. But in terms of who pays for it,
that's a bit trickier, I think. So if you look
at all the public hospitals that have been built in
(11:39):
the last thirty years in Australia, about half of them
have been built with state treasury money. The government just
pays for it, builds it and is responsible for maintaining it.
The other half, and we're talking about hospitals like Royal Adelaide,
like the Newport's Gray Hospital, are built using a public
private partnership, a model that's called Design Build Finance Man
to maintain DBFM. That means is private sector a consortium
(12:02):
builds it. They keep the lights on, they repair the
roof when the cyclone kits, but the government runs the household.
They employ and put the doctors in, the nurses, They
provide the free public health care. So the government pays
the private sector a set monthly fee. Think of it
like rent. This is essentially the biggest rent to own
scheme in Australia and over thirty years you make those
(12:23):
payments and the government owns the facility the end of it.
They also get to dock it. If the private consortium
doesn't do their job, they don't maintain it, they don't
have to make those payments. It really is a lot
like renting a host. So the private sector builds and
runs the building and the public sector runs the medicine.
This is what we've done with the RAH, this is
what we've done with Footscrades, this is what we've done
(12:44):
with a lot of major hospitals. Ultimately, the responsibility for
hospitals lies with the state territory government. But I do
think Rolled Downe Hospital is different and the reason is
because it's an Australian asset. No one outside Darlin's going
to start the ball rolling shore. This is a hospital
that provides care to the North of Wa, to the
north of Queensland. Is a critical military asset. It's a
(13:07):
huge part of defending the North and reaches into Southeast Asia.
This is not a hospital. You know, Footscrao Hospital doesn't
have to do that. Be Under Stanley Hospital doesn't have
to do that. So roll Daleen Hospital is expected to
do a lot of heavy lifting for Australia and so
while the Commonwealth doesn't really pay for new hospitals, I
do think there is a case here that can be made.
And this is what we've been arguing for is this
(13:28):
is not just about Darwin. It's not even just about
the nt ROLL. Dalen Hospital is an Australian asset and
for a jurisdiction that has a tax base like ours,
trying to provide a service not just interstate but overseas
like that's not a fair ask. So where does the money?
You know, what does that amount? I don't know. That's
for both governments to sit down and work out. But
I do think it's not fair to expect just us
(13:50):
to pay for it, but we are responsible for starting it.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, well, doctor John Zorbis, it is always interesting to
catch up. Hey, before I let you go really quick
one totally off topic. We're giving away some lamb based
fishing guides a little bit later on the show. I've
been asking people what's your biggest catch? What have you
called recently a fish? Any fish? I do?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
The last thing I call was a black tip brief
shirt and it was beautiful and we put it back,
but it was a lovely it's a lovely creature. I've
not caught a metery though, that's still on Moley.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, it's pretty gloy, isn't it? What you can fish
for in the Northern Territory. Certainly it makes things fun.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah. No, it's again just such a good part of
the country to be in. And you know, it's it's
a shame that I don't get to talk about that
and I have to come here and talk about the
lack of infrastructure funding.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I know, I know, doctor John zorbas So I feel
the same, mate. Imagine if all we spoke about all
morning was fishing and having fun in it be good,
wouldn't it.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
That'd be great.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I'd love that, John. It's always good to catch up
with you. Thank you so much for your time. I
really appreciate your input over the last few weeks.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Thanks Katie, and thanks for keeping help on the dial.
I think it's hugely important.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, I think it is as well. Thank you. That
is doctor John Zorbist. There
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