June 22, 2024 • 41 mins
This week, Paula's guest is Sonia Gray, broadcaster and host of the award-winning neurodiversity podcast, No Such Thing as Normal. They discuss Gray's career, being comfortable sharing her own neurodiversity story and her motivation for advocating for the community, before sharing her advice for parents going through the same battles she experienced.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, I am Paula Venas and welcome to my New
Zealand Hero podcast, Ask Me Anything and one thing eye
blurt in life is it's never too late to learn
something new. So on this podcast, I talk to people
from all walks of life to hear about how they
(00:24):
got to where they are and get some advice and
guidance on some of life's biggest questions. My guest today
is a familiar face on the teally longtime LOTO presenter.
She's been on Shorty Straight, whell a Fortune see On's wedding.
Netflix is The Royal Treatment Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Where she was up right robbed to be frank.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
In the last few years, Sonya Gray has turned to
documentary to share insight into the lives of neuro divergent
children and their families. Through her documentary Kids Wired Differently
and her podcast No Such Thing as Normal. I'm God,
I'm exhausted reading this on you. She has become I'm
a huge advocate for the neurodivergent community. The podcast has
(01:03):
been a huge hit. Congratulations so big time on recently
being named Best History and Documentary Podcasts in the twenty
twenty four New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Radio Podcast Awards. I have got the wonderful Sonia Gray. Hello. Hello,
I'm exhausted with everything you're doing.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I love that you said dancing with the stars, because
that was god a couple of minutes and then I was.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Gone, Ah, you were robbed.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
We all know that, Paul. Yeah, still hurts.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
It's funny. Hey, that's the thing that's like here. It's
kind of weird.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I get asked to do some things occasionally and I go,
I think I'm past ever being voted on again.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Oh, I didn't really get it. I didn't really understand
reality TV. I was I thought, you know, I'll just
go really hard and be a really good dancer and
have fun.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, but it's okay campaigning in the background, is it?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
In that kind of.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
It's complicated, it's confident.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Would you do it again? Would you do would you
do reality TV? Again?
Speaker 4 (02:04):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
No, No, it's a strange thing. It's a strange environment.
You're never quite sure what's going on. Yeah, does that
make sense?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
You know?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
People ask me on the Treasure Island all the time
and I just go, oh, what part of you think?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
So?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I want to sleep in an uncomfortable bed and really
horrible weather without Shadonah and then be second guessing the
people that I'm hanging out with.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I'm exactly the same. Yeah, that would be my worst nightmare. Cold,
no food, no shard in night Yeah. Oh and yeah,
like who's with me? Who's the alliances? It's just yes, terrifying.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, No, it's not, It's not my thing at all.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I think we've warmed up because I normally do some
quick fires, but I feel like we've I feel like
I feel.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Like, well, I know, you need to get back to work.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I need to keep a real job, which is quite good.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Okay, before we get into the nitty gritty of neurodiversity,
because I'm absolutely rapped. Can I just again say congratulations
on the on the award for your podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
How does it feel because you put a lot into it.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
It's oh my god, oh my god, so much. I
didn't actually know how much work. It would be. Lots
of all nighters. Yeah, that was lovely last week to
get that award. And I actually when they announced it,
my jaw drops, like physically jaw dropped. I was just like,
oh what what? And it's but it's such a lovely feeling. Yeah,
(03:35):
to get I mean that's not why you do it,
and we all go, oh, awards don't matter, but it
is lovely to get acknowledged.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah, to be recognized for the work that you're doing
and it's popular and you know that people are listening
and learning and so all.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
That work is worth it. Right. It's not about the award,
but there is a recognition, which is a wonderful feeling. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
And I think at the moment because I'm deep into
series two and it's really really hard again and it's like,
what do you include? What do you how do you
balance everything out? It's nice to have that to know
you're on the right track.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, and we're to plug it right, so I know
such thing as normal? Yes, Yes, so they can go
back and listen to season one.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Season one, Yes, very relevant, yeap. And yes, season two
first episode is July for six.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Hmmm.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I hope I've got that right.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Sounds good.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
So we are going to talk more about advice around
your adversity and all the rest of it in the
same half. But how hard was it for you to
go public? And I suppose for those other children to
go public? I mean your you know, your series. Did
you think about putting yourself out there like that.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yes, but no, I when we were in the thick
of it with my daughter and I didn't think we'd
survive it. I thought, if by chance we do survive this,
I have to do something because here I am in
my nice three three four bedroom villa and Mount Eden.
(05:07):
We have all these advantages other people don't have, and
we're still thinking, so how are other people doing it?
And they're not. So it was sort of it wasn't
almost wasn't a choice. It was like, you know, it
was a drive. It had to be my mission and
it still is. It's difficult because I, you know, it's
(05:29):
about my family, so we have to be really careful
around that. And my daughter's very open. But now that
she's fifteen, she doesn't want so you know, with the podcast,
she doesn't want to be in that. And that's totally fine.
So I check with her all the time. How you know,
how do you feel about me mentioning this or mentioning that?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yes, so, because it's not just your story to tell, right,
it's you and it's your family.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
She's not a shamed of it at all. She does.
I don't think, you know, we've tried to write through
a go your brain is incredible, because it is. And
she's surrounded by friends who are all you know, all
got their own little neurodivergencies. So yeah, I think kids
are much better at difference these days, but we're the
(06:18):
ones running the show and we're still stuck and oh, yep, yep,
we understand that you're dyslexic, but you still have to
follow the roles and will help you.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Be more normal. Isn't that awful?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Even saying it out loud just seems so harsh. How
is she now?
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Because so she's what, she's touching all the wood ula,
she's great, and I do I've got to say caveat there.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Our normal is very different to other people's normal. So
there's a lot that we don't do and good for
us is probably just normal for other people. So her
I was just talking to her this morning actually, and
I said, nis you, your attendance road a school was
ninety one percent and she was like listen, mom, And
(07:10):
I said that, like that delights me because this is
a kid that she's never been anywhere close to that.
Like last year barely at school was hospitalized for a
week with very severe OCD. Just so many things over
the years have meant school is really challenging for her,
but she's found her place now. And I never thought
(07:34):
we'd get to this point.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Wow, and you went to Europe, did you?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah? We did this. And you know, I said to her,
I'm so happy you're coming with me. And I said,
you know what, we're going to Europe. Even if we
just sit in the hotel room, that's fine. We've gone
to Europe. But I didn't follow through on that, did I.
I was like, Oh, we're going to So we're going
to go to Abetha. We're the weddings, and then we'll
(07:59):
go to Nice, and we'll go to Barcelona and we'll
go to Paris and because you know, how when are
we going to get.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Back to you?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
And it was too much? Yeah, it was way too much.
And so I learned from that. But yeah, I've got
to still remember that even though she's coping very well
and life is still really hard for her, she feels
the world in a really intense way. So any change
any you know, we've got a lot of bright lights
in the studio that would be quite difficult for her
(08:26):
to block that out, that little noise. Can you hear
that noise. Yeah, she's trying to block that out. So
your travel, there's a whole lot of new stuff like that.
So yeah, it's you're always learning.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, and we always will right Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, it's kind of way to do this podcast. It's like,
as I say, you need to, you know, keep learning.
How boring would it be? Hey, your TV show My
Family Mystery is back in early July as well. Fascinating
by the way, So for those that haven't seen it,
give us a snapshot of what it is.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Well, actually, this is a new series. So last year
we did one called Passengers and that was slightly different.
This time with My Family Mystery, New Zealanders bring me
a townger, some sort of treasure in their family, an object,
and that's the beginning of the mystery. They have a
question for me. They want to know, you know, who
(09:21):
was this person or where did these medals come from?
Or you know, well it's really varied. It's been such
a great ride.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Gohould be interesting. It's an emotional for people, I imagine
mainly me.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
I cried so much. I can't believe how much I cried.
I mean, we've got a spy story. Like one of
the stories is was my mother a Nazi spy?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
You know, like it's just really yeah, I was just
blown away. I'm so excited about the series. It's going
to be amazing. I've learned so much about DNA.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
When you're doing another one, give me a call because
I reckon I've got a couple of real good ease
yeah that I don't know if they're true or not.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And you know, so it.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Just would be really so a we could go right
back to like King Tafio. There's you know, the legend
of that is that he went and stole the princess
and that's my you know, that's my ancestor there. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so that's quite because it's not wasn't unusual. Well I
know it sounds awful, but you actually kidnap?
Speaker 3 (10:26):
No, yeah, you know, this is fascinating me making mental notes.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
And then I've got my grandmother's story.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Okay, I never quite understood which but a great.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Question is, so, Paula, would you come onto the show?
Would you bring your object to me?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
To find an object? Is what I'm thinking.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
We do that, Well, we'll find one. Yeah, they're all
starting something. Yeah, it just needs to or.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Oh yeah, no, I reckon.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
We've got some goodies because everyone's got something.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Hey, yeah, they do some of them. In the series
of Quite Profound. There was some shocks, there's some year. Yeah,
it's very interesting going with someone on a journey that's
so personal and I think, you know, as the host,
my role was to carry them, but it's yeah, it's
(11:18):
a lot. I can't prepare them for what we'll find.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, EI think we need more of this kind of TV?
Are you hopeful?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Because you know we're all worried at the moment we're
not going to tell enough Kiwi stories and we're not
going to see enough of us on TV if you like,
Do you have concerns around it?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Hell?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
You yeah. I mean a lot of my colleagues have
lost their jobs recently. Friends, I don't know what the
answer is. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Well, you're New zealanin ear and everything. I've got a
responsibility to keep telling our stories.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
So New zealand And are amazing and thank goodness we have them.
But yeah, we just probably need to turn our tellies on.
Yeah we can moan and groan, but if we don't
turn them on and watch what's there, then you know, yeah,
that's one.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
I hear you.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Okay, we're going to take a quick break because I
am dying to get back and get into all things neurodiversity. Okay,
we are back with Sonya Great and a head of
(12:25):
season two of your podcasts No such Thing as Normal,
and we're going to look at advice around a whole
bunch of different areas of neurodiversity. I mean, it's been
a few years now since you went public with your
own ADHD.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
You know, do people still talk to you about it?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Hmmm, yeah they do. Yeah, I'm kind of really cool
with it, but I understand that a lot for a
lot of people who do have a neurodivision diagnosis like ADHD, autism, dyslexia,
it's very hard for them to be open about it.
So I sort of feel a responsibility to talk about
it in a positive way and just just you know,
(13:04):
grow that awareness that it's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
I think that's what people still struggle. It's like, well, really,
while I lose my keys, and it's like, it's not
just about losing things. I mean a lot of it is.
A lot of it is about being late and being disorganized.
But if it were just that, then I wouldn't be here.
You know, I've sort of diagnosis, well, let's.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Sleep rite in because we've just because we've you know,
Torri Farno has come out in the last few weeks,
and that good on her.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
That's where I'm at. But I just couldn't get over.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
You know, I made the mistake kind of switching on
the radio and there it was again.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
You know, Oh, is it even real?
Speaker 1 (13:42):
It's just an excuse, it's you know, and it was
so negative. And then I just went down the bad
rabbit hole of reading some of the comments and things
which I shouldn't have done.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
You can't I do it the same, Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
But I was kidding so angry for not just even
for her, but you know, how do you criticize for
her personal journey here? Go for politics, go for decisions,
that's what we put ourselves up for.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
But actually, and it's still there on you.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
It is still there. It's so I guess it's because
you can't see it. You know, sometimes you can, but
you can't see it. Also, it's environmental, if that makes sense.
So for me with ADHD, if I'm doing something I love,
I am focused as all hell. If it's something that's
(14:30):
just not that interesting to me. Even if I have
to do it, I cannot. I'm just drawn away to
other things. I'm just sort of you know, that's just
a general example. So people are like, well, you can
do it sometimes, or you know, to their kids, or
you can do it in that situation. Why can't you
focus in this situation? And I think that's where we
(14:51):
get that kind of is it really a thing? And
are people just medicating their kids? And is Tory fun
making it an excuse for the fact that he's just
had a few issues lately. It is a real thing.
And I guess that's why I'm doing this, Matchey, because
I'm trying to find a way. And it's always hard
(15:11):
to change society's views. Yes, they're very you know, people
like to stick to what they believe. That this is
not just people being lazy or weird or coppying out
or not being able to follow rules. It's just it's
we're born like this. It's we're needed, you know. It's
like you need different ways of thinking to just advance
(15:37):
the world.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, yeah, And and love the differences, right, And I
think you know, when I watched you know, kids white
differently and and listen to some of the podcasts, you
know it is, you know, abing honest and open about
some of the challenges, and some of the challenges are big, right,
So if there's people out there listening right now and
they and their children are, you know, you certainly high
(16:00):
reld some of the violence that kind of can go
with it, you know, that absolutely antisocial behavior. I did
think for you being so well recognized, I thought, gosh,
it must have been embarrassing at times, you know, particularly
in the earlier years.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
I didn't. Yeah, that's so much. I never really thought that.
I just it was just embarrassing because I had this
quote unquote out of control kid that was in the
supermarket pulling things down or you know, tearing up library
books in the library or whatever, and people do not
respond well to that. You know, you can.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Control that child.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Yeah, yeah, you're going to need to pay for that library.
Because I'm crying because it's not just my kids torn
up a library boo, because like, what the frick is
going on? Yeah, I cannot Everything I do is not working.
And so now I wish I had known now what
I know then. And there's a couple of really key things.
One is these meltdowns that we see this anti social behavior.
(16:58):
It is not a choice. It's physiological response to a threat. So,
for example, my daughter, you know, the world sensory stuff
for her is intense. So if she's in a mall
and she's had a long day at school and something
goes wrong, they give her an ice cream, and it's
slightly different. If there's enough things have gone wrong, her
(17:20):
body just shuts down, and that can look like it
can look just like a shutdown, or it can be
you know, throwing the ice cream across the room. There.
Sometimes she doesn't even remember, yeah, or she didn't even remember.
But what the outside world sees is a mother that
can't control the kid.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
So the first advice there is understand.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Understanding that even though it's really hard for you as
a parent or for the outside we all to understand.
But this is not a choice. This is a kid
that is so emotionally justsregulated. We might got we might
not get as emotionally dysregulated with the same set of circumstances,
(18:05):
but we're not in their brain. So that's the leap
we've got to make. What I wish that I'd known
is that my own stress and anxiety around it, which
is really hard not to have when you're like normal. Basically,
I was going, how am I going to keep my
kid out of jail?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Say that?
Speaker 3 (18:25):
And yeah, and safe and and other people safe, her
sister safe, all those things. But the yeah to my
stress fed that because this is a kid that feels everything,
and I'm her mother. Even if I'm trying to smile
and look happy, she's feeling that, you know, my dysregulation because.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
She's hyper sensitive, right, totally, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
She's hyper sensitive. She feels everything, but all kids do.
And the biggest change I noticed, like you know, we
went to all the psychologists, psychiatrists, ots, behavior therapists, everything
you can think of I tried. The biggest change was
when I can't learned how to stay calm no matter
(19:14):
what was going on. Now people will be listening to
this and going, how can you? I can't do it,
and it's a journey, it's a you know. But a
lot of her issues were around food, and that's really
stressful when your kid's not eating or only eating three
or four foods. But when it was like, okay, let's
just accept this, that's what it is at the moment,
(19:36):
the people might go, she's eating chocolate fingers, Pizzah pizza,
and cocoa pops. What the hell are you doing as
a mother. I've got to shut that out and go,
Let's create a dinner time that is calm. Let's not
worry about the food, what food goes in and out.
Let's just make this environment as calm as possible. She
will be irrational, She'll be like, oh, I needed it
(19:57):
on that plate, and I needed That's not her making
my life a misery. That's her just expressing that this
is really hard for me. So making that shift get
staying on her team was the most helpful thing. The
problem is you can do that, but then the outside world,
(20:17):
your community, the teachers, that all the people aren't quite
there yet. So that's yeah, that's what makes it tricky.
And I know a lot of people find that their
extended family just can't can't understand. Your grandparents find it
particularly fine, very difficult to sort of. You know, it's
(20:39):
like she can't be allowed to get away with that.
She needs to eat whatever everyone else is eating, and
it's just doesn't Yes, maybe, but that doesn't help. Well,
you know, what are we trying to achieve?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
And it's just And there's a spectrum, right, I mean,
we talk about the spectrum. But for parents out there,
you know there when I you know, when I saw
and I saw THEO, you know you can see these
are the children who you know, the behaviors are quite
extreme at but there's another end, right, So there'll be
(21:11):
a parents out there that are just going.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Is this the naughty toes? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Or is this just? And where?
Speaker 1 (21:17):
And you know, and everyone's judge right well, or the
judge you that they think you'll judge and they sort.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Of go, I know that it's such a good point.
It's something I think about a lot because in many ways,
I'm grateful that my daughter couldn't contain what was going
on and it was very obvious and so things had
to be put in place. There are for every inns
and every THEO, there are ten kids that hold it together,
(21:44):
that internalize their stress and I don't know, I mean
in many cases it comes out later and with mental
health issues in their late teens early twenties.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Because they haven't learned how to express, right, and that's
not learned, but haven't been able to express that's so well,
you know, they're concerned about how extreme and I'm not normal,
and so I just keep this all inside and we
can't do that, right, No, we all got to let
it all out.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah, it was like, this is not working for me,
And if throwing this desk hasn't told you that, then
what else going to throw? Which is you know it's terrible,
But they are the changes in some cases that were
made for in theirs helped so many kids, and I
think that's another problem that we're facing now. Everyone's like, oh,
(22:35):
everyone wants a label at the moment, and everyone wants
special treatment, and it's like pretty much all the the
things that help neurodivergent kids help all kids. So your
your neurotypical kid is not going to be at a
disadvantage by some of the things that may be put
in place in the classroom for that would help my daughter. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
In fact, we're all slightly on the spectrum. Well we're
all got personality differences and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
So more in there. That's as you say, it's a
great thing.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah, I mean, so for example, to get an ADHD diagnosis,
I don't know, I'm sort of making this up, but
maybe you need five out of the six. I'll tick
those off. If you have four out of the six,
you don't get a diagnosis, but those four things challenges
are still very real for you. But so it's not
black and white. It's like not like I'm over here
(23:30):
with a diagnosis and everyone else is over there. It's yeah,
and I do worry about those people that are somewhere
in the middle that don't have a diagnosis to kind
of go, this is why I'm finding it hard. But also, yeah,
are struggling in so many ways. It's just such a
massive topic, poorra And I'm trying to generalize.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
But then go, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, And for
some parents out there as well, you know, they will
be thinking, you know, what's the kind of level of
help they can get.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
You know, because you just talk about the struggles.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Of I mean, a, you might have got the diagnosis
and you can talk to recounselor, but then who's helping
you're at home?
Speaker 3 (24:11):
No one is insane, it is. It was terrifying. It
was terrifying. There is nothing. Yeah, we got a diagnosis,
we paid to go private. I don't know if the
first diagnosis was even right, but anyway, you're sent out
of here.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
And I thought, oh, we'll have it. There'll be a plan,
it'll be something.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
There's nothing. You get a pamphlet and it's like, well
what do I do now? And no one Every step
of the way. You have to navigate yourself in a
world you know nothing about. And really the biggest support
and the best advice I got was from other parents.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah, I've tried this and it kind of worked.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
There's an educational psychologist, you know. You know, also you
get from other parents that have been through it the
understanding which you need. You need to know that you're
not the only family in the world going through.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
This, because you say, unless you've kind of been through it,
you can't understand how their brains are working and all
that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
And I thought, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Well, you know, like I completely can empathize and I
can understand a level, but yeah, I haven't lived it,
and so you can't pretend that you have either.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
No, and I know that ever hadn't been for in years.
I mean, I think I'm a pretty understanding and open person,
but I still if a friend came to me and said, oh,
you know, my kids doing whatever whatever, there would be
that little part of me that would go oh, but
are you making sure that you you know, we do
just sort of automatically go to the parents. What are
(25:46):
the parents doing? What could they shift?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
What would we do?
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah, if we were in that situation, and yeah, I
can just say that if it was as easy as
the parents are the problem, you know that it's easily so.
But in saying that, the first thing that everyone is
told to do is go on a parenting course. Really
(26:10):
always the parenting courses.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
I've got someone that with the ADHD and the child's
also got autism, and it's it's the autism that as
the stigma and the it's like ADHD is kind of
you know, you know, I don't think, yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
You know, I questioned a.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Little of myself at times, you know, but autism they
just went, wow, the stigma and then you know.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Like that's like something it's sort of crossing into alien territory.
And I guess to those Hollywood cliches like rain Man
and you know, those other shows that we have this
idea of what autism is. Plus with autism, there can
be the social struggles and we never quite sure how
to be with people that communicate differently. Even I you know,
(26:59):
I'm interviewed a lot of autistic people at the moment,
and I do I am sort of like, I'm not
sure if I'm doing this quite right. We don't like
to be uncomfortable, and so we go, well, it's easier
if I just don't bother.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
But you can ask them right, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Yeah, and you won't get it right all the time.
I mean, I'm fascinated by it. I want to know
what is going on in their minds. I feel like
if we asked the people that we talk about so
much what their experience is like, it would help to
understand it. But we talk about them, not to them.
So that's what the podcast is about. But yes, the
(27:35):
other complicated thing with an autism ADHD profile, which is
very common, is you've got a brain that's kind of
in conflict with itself. It wants structure, it wants routine,
it wants everything to be the same, but it wants
novelty and it's just a bit disorganized and it just
needs to go, go, go, And it's just you know,
(27:56):
when you talk to kids and adults with that profile,
you can see it that constant like back and forth.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
And so let's so two parents out there, who's who
suspect that their child might be have ADHD or some
sort of neurodiversity, or they have recently been diagnosed as
you also always say. I mean, they can be the
brightest kids in the world, and you have got a
(28:23):
journey here, and it may not always be a nice,
smooth pass and easy, and there's not a nice little
written recipe for how we're going.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
To roll this out, but there is. They're beautiful, aren't they?
And they think differently?
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yeah, yeah, they are. It is hard. It is so
hard in so many ways and unique to everybody. But
it's also a great privilege. I think I feel completely
changed by having in theirs and Tandy, my other daughter,
but I to ask about her little teats. Yeah, yes, yes,
(28:55):
she's she's a neurotypical. She's just one of those really quiet,
shy kids.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Yeah, but she's yeah yeah, twins and then yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
You've got to be conscious, right because in his head
high needs.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Yeah, and that's something we're now going through. Tandy missed
out on a lot and our home environment was very
volatile at times, and she was the target a lot
of times. So that's there's a lot around that that
we now have to address and you know, you do
your best at the time, but you're human, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yea.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah, so well there's only so much you can do
in a day. Yeah, you know, that's the reality as well.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah, was there a question. Sorry, I don't know I
answered the question.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I was just interested in that kind of family life.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
And I suppose what I did want to do is
give some of the parents hope that you know, just
because you've got a diagnosis, so you've got a child
that's got some of the challenges of life.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
It doesn't. It doesn't. There are gorgeous kids that you
can get through.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah, And I think for most people it's those first,
the younger years of the hardest and if you can
kind of get through that, their brains are always developing
and it well for us at least, it got easy.
For a lot it gets easier. But you're not alone.
That's a really important point that I try and drive home.
(30:21):
It feels very isolating. You feel like you're the only
one with the kid who won't go to school, or
the kid that can't wear socks and shoes part of
their uniform or whatever it is, and you're not. It's
just you know, we have the society that sort of
encourages us not to talk about that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
And I mean with other schools cut out for it.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
I mean I was quite impressed when I was watching
In preparation for this, I went back and watched and
I just sort of thought that even THEO, you know,
they sort of accepted he wasn't in the stay at
school all day and actually him even going for an
hour a day was better than not going any Yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know, but then again then again, yeah he's anymore.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Yeah, he stood down, spelled, just doesn't a classroom environment
is just doesn't work for the and for lots of kids.
But really he just can't do it. He is so bright,
that kid, He is so bright, so talented, but yeah,
ADHD autistic brain. There's just so much going on our
(31:27):
schools cut out. I don't want to be negative, and
teachers are do the absolute best they can, but I
think we are at a point where we have to
just look at completely reworking the system. And I know
that's not easy, but it's just not working for so
many kids, so many, so many. I mean I've read
(31:48):
some stats at fifteen percent of kids actually thrive in
the current education system. Most just can get through, but
it doesn't you know, it's hard for them. And we've
got all this talk about, you know, the problems with
truancy at the moment, and it's like, why why aren't
we making it somewhere they want to go? Then they go, Yeah,
(32:09):
you know, like like the consequences like finding parents. I mean,
I'd have to take out a second mortgage if that
was in place. It is not physically, it's physically impossible
to get a kid over about seven to somewhere they
don't want.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
To go, and yet again we're blaming the parents.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
They're blaming the parents. Yeah, let's find the parents. I mean,
you know, that is so freaking triggering to me. But anyway,
I get it because it's like that seems like an
easy solution, but it's just missing the whole point.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Yeah, yeah, that it's not straightforward that.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
And then we have to kind of go ask the
kids what is it about school that makes you not
want to go?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, so we're diagnosing a lot more.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Now, is that what's happening If we don't necessarily have
more nerodiversity, it's just that.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
We are near.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Yeah, it's always you know, ADHD if you look way
back the right, I mean, yeah, I don't know how
they know this, but I've talked to lots of experts
and it pretty much hasn't changed. Yeah, but it hasn't
gone away either, because.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You know, I was at primary school in the seventies
and if you look, if I looked back at it now,
I would go, yeah, there's the group of naughty kids
as we would have called them the air.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
There's the group that's this and as you.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Say, weird, yeah, been the autistic. Yeah, the so called
dumb kids. Yeah, they were the dyslexics. Yeah, I'm generalizing again,
but no, I know.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
But but as you say, it was the forty five yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
fifty years ago, so you know, yeah, so it was
there then.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Yeah, we just didn't have we had different labels. It
was instead of waters and it was weird.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah yeah. And you know, and we do all like
to look back as we were.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
You and I said, we said off microphone before, you know,
and just have a nice rose colored of what our
childhoods were like.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
And and our parents do the same thing. And it's like, actually,
were they I don't think they were.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
I don't think they were either. I think the thing
was that there was a lot more you know, for
kids that didn't sit in they fell out of the
school system quite early. We just didn't sort of see them.
Or they could go into you know, the trades and
stuff like. Yeah, but a lot of them end up
in prison.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
I mean our prison cells are full of neurodivigent people
over half.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
So something has to change, right, Yeah, okay, So how
can we support.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Both the children and the parents who are neurodivision?
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Compassion? Yeah, compassion, kindness, leaving your biases at the door,
just really really hard.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
We might think we have and then we'll come through
the door and we'll be like, oh, well, well if
she just had was feeding them chicken instead of those
chicken nuggets, then you know, like everything, and so it's
just kind of leaving all that behind and saying what
can I do to help? What can I or you know,
(35:09):
what would what do you need? Yeah, replacing that instead
of the judging the how can I help this situation?
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yeah? Yeah, take your breath and actually think of others
and yeah, be with them. I suppose.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Sonya podcast is called ask Me Anything, And so far
I have done a lot of asking, So this is
your opportunity to ask me something if you would like to.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Okay, Paula, There's so much I could ask you. I
was thinking about Paninis and Bowld, but I want to
go deeper. You a Minister of Police for a short
time relatively, I think, And so I'm just thinking, you know,
there are ADHD dyslexic people in our prison cells at
(36:04):
crazy rates. The intersection with the justice system for neurodivergent
people is huge. What do police know about how to communicate,
how to approach, how to deal with people whose minds
are wide differently.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
But Sonya, it'd be the same as what you say
about teachers. You know they get what one lecture you
know that they don't that's voluntary. They don't even compulsorily
have to go and the whole of their training. And
I would argue, you know, look, so I can't speak
to it because that's very operational ast to how they
train the police and what they do. But what I
(36:43):
would say is it's like they are going to be
dealing with people that are neurodiverse, that have got mental
health issues all the rest of it, and their ability
in training around that is very limited and I just
have to be honest. And so then it's like any profession,
if you like, you've just got a real range of personalities,
(37:04):
a range of expertise. Heck, they've all got many of
them have got neurodiverse children or you know, so there's
all of that in there, and you'll meet wonderful and
then you'll meet others that just kind of don't understand
or even perhaps want to, which is awful, but they
are actually representative of society as a whole. Yeah, and
(37:27):
there's probably not that level of that level of training
and that level of understanding. But then what we send
people to courts and judges don't understand either do they know?
Speaker 3 (37:41):
And there's just that whole narrative of you know, you
should know the consequences to your actions, and everyone knows
right from wrong, and especially ADHD dyslexic people, and our
jails is so high. And I just look at my
daughter and how she was, and I really was like,
how do I stop the that she's on? And we
(38:01):
were lucky, but she could quite easily have gone in
the other direction.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
But so on you we were even learning lessons, right,
So you know, if I think about Tana Porter, you know,
and he had he had fetal alcohol syndrome, so you know, different,
very different. But you know, he went to jail for
something he didn't do because of how we interviewed effectively.
I'm sorry, I'm not the expert on this, but you
know what I mean, because of how we presented and
(38:27):
how he was unable to answer questions probably in all
the rest of it. And we learned lessons from that
as to how we treat people with differences or with neurodiversity.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
And I don't know the answer to there, you know, but.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
We've got a case that's you know, I've got a
person that's right in front of us and has been
through how.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Yeah, have we learned anything? I think we do learn
and then we forget again, Yeah, because it's so much
easier to go, well, you've got to be held accountable
for your actions. I don't get no excuses. But if
we kind of take a step back and go, what
were the what was the issue surrounding this?
Speaker 1 (39:10):
And I'm like, you know, you know how you said
about our teachers, I'm the same with the police. You know,
I just will never put them down, and I just think,
but they are you know, overworked, and not given the
level of support that they need.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
And that's the reality. And sometimes I bet it's just okay,
well I don't have to deal with that now, and.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
But yeah, and so we've got to be real, right, Yeah, yeah, Yeah,
it's just, you know, the amount of people that they're
encountering that have these sort of different brains that you know,
even sensory stuff that is hard for them.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
I mean, I feel bad for the police that they
don't get that training, you know, because it's very hard
to understand. Otherwise it's a very big topic.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Is I'm very very big.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah, and I think, yeah, yeah, I've got so much
to say about this, Paula, I could this could be
a serious in itself. I just yeah, so I hope,
I've Yeah, there's just so much to say. And I
just I'm really aware that there are so many people
suffering and we sort of don't see them, and we
don't they don't feel that they can talk about it,
(40:19):
and yeah, that's kind of it's my mission, my copappa
is to ease the suffering.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, well, thank you, I mean, and I mean, thank
you for coming and thank you for talking about it,
you know, thanks for all the help that it does
give all those parents and people out there because they
genuinely need it right, you know, and they need to
know that they're not alone.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Not alone. Now we're fighting, we're fighting for you, and.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
There one loves better.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
They're wonderful, chaotic households and lives can actually get better
and yes, good times.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
So season two of No Such Thing as Normal will
be out on Saturday, sixth of July.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
So that's exciting, with a new episode dropping every week
so they can find it on iHeartRadio or any podcast platform.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
And that's it for another episode of Asking Anything.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
You can get in touch with me by emailing ask
Paula at ncd me dot co dot InCD Feel free
to send me three questions. Find me on Facebook, Instagram
and LinkedIn. Make sure you follow Ask Me Anything on
iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
I'm Paula Binet Ask Me Anything. Goodbye
Hello, I am Paula Venas and welcome to my New
Zealand Hero podcast, Ask Me Anything and one thing eye
blurt in life is it's never too late to learn
something new. So on this podcast, I talk to people
from all walks of life to hear about how they
(00:24):
got to where they are and get some advice and
guidance on some of life's biggest questions. My guest today
is a familiar face on the teally longtime LOTO presenter.
She's been on Shorty Straight, whell a Fortune see On's wedding.
Netflix is The Royal Treatment Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Where she was up right robbed to be frank.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
In the last few years, Sonya Gray has turned to
documentary to share insight into the lives of neuro divergent
children and their families. Through her documentary Kids Wired Differently
and her podcast No Such Thing as Normal. I'm God,
I'm exhausted reading this on you. She has become I'm
a huge advocate for the neurodivergent community. The podcast has
(01:03):
been a huge hit. Congratulations so big time on recently
being named Best History and Documentary Podcasts in the twenty
twenty four New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Radio Podcast Awards. I have got the wonderful Sonia Gray. Hello. Hello,
I'm exhausted with everything you're doing.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I love that you said dancing with the stars, because
that was god a couple of minutes and then I was.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Gone, Ah, you were robbed.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
We all know that, Paul. Yeah, still hurts.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
It's funny. Hey, that's the thing that's like here. It's
kind of weird.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I get asked to do some things occasionally and I go,
I think I'm past ever being voted on again.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Oh, I didn't really get it. I didn't really understand
reality TV. I was I thought, you know, I'll just
go really hard and be a really good dancer and
have fun.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, but it's okay campaigning in the background, is it?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
In that kind of.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
It's complicated, it's confident.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Would you do it again? Would you do would you
do reality TV? Again?
Speaker 4 (02:04):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
No, No, it's a strange thing. It's a strange environment.
You're never quite sure what's going on. Yeah, does that
make sense?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
You know?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
People ask me on the Treasure Island all the time
and I just go, oh, what part of you think?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
So?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I want to sleep in an uncomfortable bed and really
horrible weather without Shadonah and then be second guessing the
people that I'm hanging out with.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I'm exactly the same. Yeah, that would be my worst nightmare. Cold,
no food, no shard in night Yeah. Oh and yeah,
like who's with me? Who's the alliances? It's just yes, terrifying.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, No, it's not, It's not my thing at all.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I think we've warmed up because I normally do some
quick fires, but I feel like we've I feel like
I feel.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Like, well, I know, you need to get back to work.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I need to keep a real job, which is quite good.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Okay, before we get into the nitty gritty of neurodiversity,
because I'm absolutely rapped. Can I just again say congratulations
on the on the award for your podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
How does it feel because you put a lot into it.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
It's oh my god, oh my god, so much. I
didn't actually know how much work. It would be. Lots
of all nighters. Yeah, that was lovely last week to
get that award. And I actually when they announced it,
my jaw drops, like physically jaw dropped. I was just like,
oh what what? And it's but it's such a lovely feeling. Yeah,
(03:35):
to get I mean that's not why you do it,
and we all go, oh, awards don't matter, but it
is lovely to get acknowledged.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah, to be recognized for the work that you're doing
and it's popular and you know that people are listening
and learning and so all.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
That work is worth it. Right. It's not about the award,
but there is a recognition, which is a wonderful feeling. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
And I think at the moment because I'm deep into
series two and it's really really hard again and it's like,
what do you include? What do you how do you
balance everything out? It's nice to have that to know
you're on the right track.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, and we're to plug it right, so I know
such thing as normal? Yes, Yes, so they can go
back and listen to season one.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Season one, Yes, very relevant, yeap. And yes, season two
first episode is July for six.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Hmmm.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I hope I've got that right.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Sounds good.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
So we are going to talk more about advice around
your adversity and all the rest of it in the
same half. But how hard was it for you to
go public? And I suppose for those other children to
go public? I mean your you know, your series. Did
you think about putting yourself out there like that.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yes, but no, I when we were in the thick
of it with my daughter and I didn't think we'd
survive it. I thought, if by chance we do survive this,
I have to do something because here I am in
my nice three three four bedroom villa and Mount Eden.
(05:07):
We have all these advantages other people don't have, and
we're still thinking, so how are other people doing it?
And they're not. So it was sort of it wasn't
almost wasn't a choice. It was like, you know, it
was a drive. It had to be my mission and
it still is. It's difficult because I, you know, it's
(05:29):
about my family, so we have to be really careful
around that. And my daughter's very open. But now that
she's fifteen, she doesn't want so you know, with the podcast,
she doesn't want to be in that. And that's totally fine.
So I check with her all the time. How you know,
how do you feel about me mentioning this or mentioning that?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yes, so, because it's not just your story to tell, right,
it's you and it's your family.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
She's not a shamed of it at all. She does.
I don't think, you know, we've tried to write through
a go your brain is incredible, because it is. And
she's surrounded by friends who are all you know, all
got their own little neurodivergencies. So yeah, I think kids
are much better at difference these days, but we're the
(06:18):
ones running the show and we're still stuck and oh, yep, yep,
we understand that you're dyslexic, but you still have to
follow the roles and will help you.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Be more normal. Isn't that awful?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Even saying it out loud just seems so harsh. How
is she now?
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Because so she's what, she's touching all the wood ula,
she's great, and I do I've got to say caveat there.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Our normal is very different to other people's normal. So
there's a lot that we don't do and good for
us is probably just normal for other people. So her
I was just talking to her this morning actually, and
I said, nis you, your attendance road a school was
ninety one percent and she was like listen, mom, And
(07:10):
I said that, like that delights me because this is
a kid that she's never been anywhere close to that.
Like last year barely at school was hospitalized for a
week with very severe OCD. Just so many things over
the years have meant school is really challenging for her,
but she's found her place now. And I never thought
(07:34):
we'd get to this point.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Wow, and you went to Europe, did you?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah? We did this. And you know, I said to her,
I'm so happy you're coming with me. And I said,
you know what, we're going to Europe. Even if we
just sit in the hotel room, that's fine. We've gone
to Europe. But I didn't follow through on that, did I.
I was like, Oh, we're going to So we're going
to go to Abetha. We're the weddings, and then we'll
(07:59):
go to Nice, and we'll go to Barcelona and we'll
go to Paris and because you know, how when are
we going to get.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Back to you?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
And it was too much? Yeah, it was way too much.
And so I learned from that. But yeah, I've got
to still remember that even though she's coping very well
and life is still really hard for her, she feels
the world in a really intense way. So any change
any you know, we've got a lot of bright lights
in the studio that would be quite difficult for her
(08:26):
to block that out, that little noise. Can you hear
that noise. Yeah, she's trying to block that out. So
your travel, there's a whole lot of new stuff like that.
So yeah, it's you're always learning.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, and we always will right Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, it's kind of way to do this podcast. It's like,
as I say, you need to, you know, keep learning.
How boring would it be? Hey, your TV show My
Family Mystery is back in early July as well. Fascinating
by the way, So for those that haven't seen it,
give us a snapshot of what it is.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Well, actually, this is a new series. So last year
we did one called Passengers and that was slightly different.
This time with My Family Mystery, New Zealanders bring me
a townger, some sort of treasure in their family, an object,
and that's the beginning of the mystery. They have a
question for me. They want to know, you know, who
(09:21):
was this person or where did these medals come from?
Or you know, well it's really varied. It's been such
a great ride.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Gohould be interesting. It's an emotional for people, I imagine
mainly me.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
I cried so much. I can't believe how much I cried.
I mean, we've got a spy story. Like one of
the stories is was my mother a Nazi spy?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
You know, like it's just really yeah, I was just
blown away. I'm so excited about the series. It's going
to be amazing. I've learned so much about DNA.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
When you're doing another one, give me a call because
I reckon I've got a couple of real good ease
yeah that I don't know if they're true or not.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And you know, so it.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Just would be really so a we could go right
back to like King Tafio. There's you know, the legend
of that is that he went and stole the princess
and that's my you know, that's my ancestor there. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so that's quite because it's not wasn't unusual. Well I
know it sounds awful, but you actually kidnap?
Speaker 3 (10:26):
No, yeah, you know, this is fascinating me making mental notes.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
And then I've got my grandmother's story.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Okay, I never quite understood which but a great.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Question is, so, Paula, would you come onto the show?
Would you bring your object to me?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
To find an object? Is what I'm thinking.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
We do that, Well, we'll find one. Yeah, they're all
starting something. Yeah, it just needs to or.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Oh yeah, no, I reckon.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
We've got some goodies because everyone's got something.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Hey, yeah, they do some of them. In the series
of Quite Profound. There was some shocks, there's some year. Yeah,
it's very interesting going with someone on a journey that's
so personal and I think, you know, as the host,
my role was to carry them, but it's yeah, it's
(11:18):
a lot. I can't prepare them for what we'll find.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, EI think we need more of this kind of TV?
Are you hopeful?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Because you know we're all worried at the moment we're
not going to tell enough Kiwi stories and we're not
going to see enough of us on TV if you like,
Do you have concerns around it?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Hell?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
You yeah. I mean a lot of my colleagues have
lost their jobs recently. Friends, I don't know what the
answer is. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Well, you're New zealanin ear and everything. I've got a
responsibility to keep telling our stories.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
So New zealand And are amazing and thank goodness we have them.
But yeah, we just probably need to turn our tellies on.
Yeah we can moan and groan, but if we don't
turn them on and watch what's there, then you know, yeah,
that's one.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
I hear you.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Okay, we're going to take a quick break because I
am dying to get back and get into all things neurodiversity. Okay,
we are back with Sonya Great and a head of
(12:25):
season two of your podcasts No such Thing as Normal,
and we're going to look at advice around a whole
bunch of different areas of neurodiversity. I mean, it's been
a few years now since you went public with your
own ADHD.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
You know, do people still talk to you about it?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Hmmm, yeah they do. Yeah, I'm kind of really cool
with it, but I understand that a lot for a
lot of people who do have a neurodivision diagnosis like ADHD, autism, dyslexia,
it's very hard for them to be open about it.
So I sort of feel a responsibility to talk about
it in a positive way and just just you know,
(13:04):
grow that awareness that it's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
I think that's what people still struggle. It's like, well, really,
while I lose my keys, and it's like, it's not
just about losing things. I mean a lot of it is.
A lot of it is about being late and being disorganized.
But if it were just that, then I wouldn't be here.
You know, I've sort of diagnosis, well, let's.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Sleep rite in because we've just because we've you know,
Torri Farno has come out in the last few weeks,
and that good on her.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
That's where I'm at. But I just couldn't get over.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
You know, I made the mistake kind of switching on
the radio and there it was again.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
You know, Oh, is it even real?
Speaker 1 (13:42):
It's just an excuse, it's you know, and it was
so negative. And then I just went down the bad
rabbit hole of reading some of the comments and things
which I shouldn't have done.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
You can't I do it the same, Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
But I was kidding so angry for not just even
for her, but you know, how do you criticize for
her personal journey here? Go for politics, go for decisions,
that's what we put ourselves up for.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
But actually, and it's still there on you.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
It is still there. It's so I guess it's because
you can't see it. You know, sometimes you can, but
you can't see it. Also, it's environmental, if that makes sense.
So for me with ADHD, if I'm doing something I love,
I am focused as all hell. If it's something that's
(14:30):
just not that interesting to me. Even if I have
to do it, I cannot. I'm just drawn away to
other things. I'm just sort of you know, that's just
a general example. So people are like, well, you can
do it sometimes, or you know, to their kids, or
you can do it in that situation. Why can't you
focus in this situation? And I think that's where we
(14:51):
get that kind of is it really a thing? And
are people just medicating their kids? And is Tory fun
making it an excuse for the fact that he's just
had a few issues lately. It is a real thing.
And I guess that's why I'm doing this, Matchey, because
I'm trying to find a way. And it's always hard
(15:11):
to change society's views. Yes, they're very you know, people
like to stick to what they believe. That this is
not just people being lazy or weird or coppying out
or not being able to follow rules. It's just it's
we're born like this. It's we're needed, you know. It's
like you need different ways of thinking to just advance
(15:37):
the world.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, yeah, And and love the differences, right, And I
think you know, when I watched you know, kids white
differently and and listen to some of the podcasts, you
know it is, you know, abing honest and open about
some of the challenges, and some of the challenges are big, right,
So if there's people out there listening right now and
they and their children are, you know, you certainly high
(16:00):
reld some of the violence that kind of can go
with it, you know, that absolutely antisocial behavior. I did
think for you being so well recognized, I thought, gosh,
it must have been embarrassing at times, you know, particularly
in the earlier years.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
I didn't. Yeah, that's so much. I never really thought that.
I just it was just embarrassing because I had this
quote unquote out of control kid that was in the
supermarket pulling things down or you know, tearing up library
books in the library or whatever, and people do not
respond well to that. You know, you can.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Control that child.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Yeah, yeah, you're going to need to pay for that library.
Because I'm crying because it's not just my kids torn
up a library boo, because like, what the frick is
going on? Yeah, I cannot Everything I do is not working.
And so now I wish I had known now what
I know then. And there's a couple of really key things.
One is these meltdowns that we see this anti social behavior.
(16:58):
It is not a choice. It's physiological response to a threat. So,
for example, my daughter, you know, the world sensory stuff
for her is intense. So if she's in a mall
and she's had a long day at school and something
goes wrong, they give her an ice cream, and it's
slightly different. If there's enough things have gone wrong, her
(17:20):
body just shuts down, and that can look like it
can look just like a shutdown, or it can be
you know, throwing the ice cream across the room. There.
Sometimes she doesn't even remember, yeah, or she didn't even remember.
But what the outside world sees is a mother that
can't control the kid.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
So the first advice there is understand.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Understanding that even though it's really hard for you as
a parent or for the outside we all to understand.
But this is not a choice. This is a kid
that is so emotionally justsregulated. We might got we might
not get as emotionally dysregulated with the same set of circumstances,
(18:05):
but we're not in their brain. So that's the leap
we've got to make. What I wish that I'd known
is that my own stress and anxiety around it, which
is really hard not to have when you're like normal. Basically,
I was going, how am I going to keep my
kid out of jail?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Say that?
Speaker 3 (18:25):
And yeah, and safe and and other people safe, her
sister safe, all those things. But the yeah to my
stress fed that because this is a kid that feels everything,
and I'm her mother. Even if I'm trying to smile
and look happy, she's feeling that, you know, my dysregulation because.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
She's hyper sensitive, right, totally, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
She's hyper sensitive. She feels everything, but all kids do.
And the biggest change I noticed, like you know, we
went to all the psychologists, psychiatrists, ots, behavior therapists, everything
you can think of I tried. The biggest change was
when I can't learned how to stay calm no matter
(19:14):
what was going on. Now people will be listening to
this and going, how can you? I can't do it,
and it's a journey, it's a you know. But a
lot of her issues were around food, and that's really
stressful when your kid's not eating or only eating three
or four foods. But when it was like, okay, let's
just accept this, that's what it is at the moment,
(19:36):
the people might go, she's eating chocolate fingers, Pizzah pizza,
and cocoa pops. What the hell are you doing as
a mother. I've got to shut that out and go,
Let's create a dinner time that is calm. Let's not
worry about the food, what food goes in and out.
Let's just make this environment as calm as possible. She
will be irrational, She'll be like, oh, I needed it
(19:57):
on that plate, and I needed That's not her making
my life a misery. That's her just expressing that this
is really hard for me. So making that shift get
staying on her team was the most helpful thing. The
problem is you can do that, but then the outside world,
(20:17):
your community, the teachers, that all the people aren't quite
there yet. So that's yeah, that's what makes it tricky.
And I know a lot of people find that their
extended family just can't can't understand. Your grandparents find it
particularly fine, very difficult to sort of. You know, it's
(20:39):
like she can't be allowed to get away with that.
She needs to eat whatever everyone else is eating, and
it's just doesn't Yes, maybe, but that doesn't help. Well,
you know, what are we trying to achieve?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
And it's just And there's a spectrum, right, I mean,
we talk about the spectrum. But for parents out there,
you know there when I you know, when I saw
and I saw THEO, you know you can see these
are the children who you know, the behaviors are quite
extreme at but there's another end, right, So there'll be
(21:11):
a parents out there that are just going.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Is this the naughty toes? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Or is this just? And where?
Speaker 1 (21:17):
And you know, and everyone's judge right well, or the
judge you that they think you'll judge and they sort.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Of go, I know that it's such a good point.
It's something I think about a lot because in many ways,
I'm grateful that my daughter couldn't contain what was going
on and it was very obvious and so things had
to be put in place. There are for every inns
and every THEO, there are ten kids that hold it together,
(21:44):
that internalize their stress and I don't know, I mean
in many cases it comes out later and with mental
health issues in their late teens early twenties.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Because they haven't learned how to express, right, and that's
not learned, but haven't been able to express that's so well,
you know, they're concerned about how extreme and I'm not normal,
and so I just keep this all inside and we
can't do that, right, No, we all got to let
it all out.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah, it was like, this is not working for me,
And if throwing this desk hasn't told you that, then
what else going to throw? Which is you know it's terrible,
But they are the changes in some cases that were
made for in theirs helped so many kids, and I
think that's another problem that we're facing now. Everyone's like, oh,
(22:35):
everyone wants a label at the moment, and everyone wants
special treatment, and it's like pretty much all the the
things that help neurodivergent kids help all kids. So your
your neurotypical kid is not going to be at a
disadvantage by some of the things that may be put
in place in the classroom for that would help my daughter. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
In fact, we're all slightly on the spectrum. Well we're
all got personality differences and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
So more in there. That's as you say, it's a
great thing.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah, I mean, so for example, to get an ADHD diagnosis,
I don't know, I'm sort of making this up, but
maybe you need five out of the six. I'll tick
those off. If you have four out of the six,
you don't get a diagnosis, but those four things challenges
are still very real for you. But so it's not
black and white. It's like not like I'm over here
(23:30):
with a diagnosis and everyone else is over there. It's yeah,
and I do worry about those people that are somewhere
in the middle that don't have a diagnosis to kind
of go, this is why I'm finding it hard. But also, yeah,
are struggling in so many ways. It's just such a
massive topic, poorra And I'm trying to generalize.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
But then go, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, And for
some parents out there as well, you know, they will
be thinking, you know, what's the kind of level of
help they can get.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
You know, because you just talk about the struggles.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Of I mean, a, you might have got the diagnosis
and you can talk to recounselor, but then who's helping
you're at home?
Speaker 3 (24:11):
No one is insane, it is. It was terrifying. It
was terrifying. There is nothing. Yeah, we got a diagnosis,
we paid to go private. I don't know if the
first diagnosis was even right, but anyway, you're sent out
of here.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
And I thought, oh, we'll have it. There'll be a plan,
it'll be something.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
There's nothing. You get a pamphlet and it's like, well
what do I do now? And no one Every step
of the way. You have to navigate yourself in a
world you know nothing about. And really the biggest support
and the best advice I got was from other parents.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah, I've tried this and it kind of worked.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
There's an educational psychologist, you know. You know, also you
get from other parents that have been through it the
understanding which you need. You need to know that you're
not the only family in the world going through.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
This, because you say, unless you've kind of been through it,
you can't understand how their brains are working and all
that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
And I thought, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Well, you know, like I completely can empathize and I
can understand a level, but yeah, I haven't lived it,
and so you can't pretend that you have either.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
No, and I know that ever hadn't been for in years.
I mean, I think I'm a pretty understanding and open person,
but I still if a friend came to me and said, oh,
you know, my kids doing whatever whatever, there would be
that little part of me that would go oh, but
are you making sure that you you know, we do
just sort of automatically go to the parents. What are
(25:46):
the parents doing? What could they shift?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
What would we do?
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah, if we were in that situation, and yeah, I
can just say that if it was as easy as
the parents are the problem, you know that it's easily so.
But in saying that, the first thing that everyone is
told to do is go on a parenting course. Really
(26:10):
always the parenting courses.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
I've got someone that with the ADHD and the child's
also got autism, and it's it's the autism that as
the stigma and the it's like ADHD is kind of
you know, you know, I don't think, yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
You know, I questioned a.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Little of myself at times, you know, but autism they
just went, wow, the stigma and then you know.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Like that's like something it's sort of crossing into alien territory.
And I guess to those Hollywood cliches like rain Man
and you know, those other shows that we have this
idea of what autism is. Plus with autism, there can
be the social struggles and we never quite sure how
to be with people that communicate differently. Even I you know,
(26:59):
I'm interviewed a lot of autistic people at the moment,
and I do I am sort of like, I'm not
sure if I'm doing this quite right. We don't like
to be uncomfortable, and so we go, well, it's easier
if I just don't bother.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
But you can ask them right, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Yeah, and you won't get it right all the time.
I mean, I'm fascinated by it. I want to know
what is going on in their minds. I feel like
if we asked the people that we talk about so
much what their experience is like, it would help to
understand it. But we talk about them, not to them.
So that's what the podcast is about. But yes, the
(27:35):
other complicated thing with an autism ADHD profile, which is
very common, is you've got a brain that's kind of
in conflict with itself. It wants structure, it wants routine,
it wants everything to be the same, but it wants
novelty and it's just a bit disorganized and it just
needs to go, go, go, And it's just you know,
(27:56):
when you talk to kids and adults with that profile,
you can see it that constant like back and forth.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
And so let's so two parents out there, who's who
suspect that their child might be have ADHD or some
sort of neurodiversity, or they have recently been diagnosed as
you also always say. I mean, they can be the
brightest kids in the world, and you have got a
(28:23):
journey here, and it may not always be a nice,
smooth pass and easy, and there's not a nice little
written recipe for how we're going.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
To roll this out, but there is. They're beautiful, aren't they?
And they think differently?
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yeah, yeah, they are. It is hard. It is so
hard in so many ways and unique to everybody. But
it's also a great privilege. I think I feel completely
changed by having in theirs and Tandy, my other daughter,
but I to ask about her little teats. Yeah, yes, yes,
(28:55):
she's she's a neurotypical. She's just one of those really quiet,
shy kids.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Yeah, but she's yeah yeah, twins and then yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
You've got to be conscious, right because in his head
high needs.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Yeah, and that's something we're now going through. Tandy missed
out on a lot and our home environment was very
volatile at times, and she was the target a lot
of times. So that's there's a lot around that that
we now have to address and you know, you do
your best at the time, but you're human, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yea.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah, so well there's only so much you can do
in a day. Yeah, you know, that's the reality as well.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah, was there a question. Sorry, I don't know I
answered the question.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I was just interested in that kind of family life.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
And I suppose what I did want to do is
give some of the parents hope that you know, just
because you've got a diagnosis, so you've got a child
that's got some of the challenges of life.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
It doesn't. It doesn't. There are gorgeous kids that you
can get through.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah, And I think for most people it's those first,
the younger years of the hardest and if you can
kind of get through that, their brains are always developing
and it well for us at least, it got easy.
For a lot it gets easier. But you're not alone.
That's a really important point that I try and drive home.
(30:21):
It feels very isolating. You feel like you're the only
one with the kid who won't go to school, or
the kid that can't wear socks and shoes part of
their uniform or whatever it is, and you're not. It's
just you know, we have the society that sort of
encourages us not to talk about that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
And I mean with other schools cut out for it.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
I mean I was quite impressed when I was watching
In preparation for this, I went back and watched and
I just sort of thought that even THEO, you know,
they sort of accepted he wasn't in the stay at
school all day and actually him even going for an
hour a day was better than not going any Yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know, but then again then again, yeah he's anymore.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Yeah, he stood down, spelled, just doesn't a classroom environment
is just doesn't work for the and for lots of kids.
But really he just can't do it. He is so bright,
that kid, He is so bright, so talented, but yeah,
ADHD autistic brain. There's just so much going on our
(31:27):
schools cut out. I don't want to be negative, and
teachers are do the absolute best they can, but I
think we are at a point where we have to
just look at completely reworking the system. And I know
that's not easy, but it's just not working for so
many kids, so many, so many. I mean I've read
(31:48):
some stats at fifteen percent of kids actually thrive in
the current education system. Most just can get through, but
it doesn't you know, it's hard for them. And we've
got all this talk about, you know, the problems with
truancy at the moment, and it's like, why why aren't
we making it somewhere they want to go? Then they go, Yeah,
(32:09):
you know, like like the consequences like finding parents. I mean,
I'd have to take out a second mortgage if that
was in place. It is not physically, it's physically impossible
to get a kid over about seven to somewhere they
don't want.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
To go, and yet again we're blaming the parents.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
They're blaming the parents. Yeah, let's find the parents. I mean,
you know, that is so freaking triggering to me. But anyway,
I get it because it's like that seems like an
easy solution, but it's just missing the whole point.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Yeah, yeah, that it's not straightforward that.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
And then we have to kind of go ask the
kids what is it about school that makes you not
want to go?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, so we're diagnosing a lot more.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Now, is that what's happening If we don't necessarily have
more nerodiversity, it's just that.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
We are near.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Yeah, it's always you know, ADHD if you look way
back the right, I mean, yeah, I don't know how
they know this, but I've talked to lots of experts
and it pretty much hasn't changed. Yeah, but it hasn't
gone away either, because.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You know, I was at primary school in the seventies
and if you look, if I looked back at it now,
I would go, yeah, there's the group of naughty kids
as we would have called them the air.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
There's the group that's this and as you.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Say, weird, yeah, been the autistic. Yeah, the so called
dumb kids. Yeah, they were the dyslexics. Yeah, I'm generalizing again,
but no, I know.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
But but as you say, it was the forty five yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
fifty years ago, so you know, yeah, so it was
there then.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Yeah, we just didn't have we had different labels. It
was instead of waters and it was weird.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah yeah. And you know, and we do all like
to look back as we were.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
You and I said, we said off microphone before, you know,
and just have a nice rose colored of what our
childhoods were like.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
And and our parents do the same thing. And it's like, actually,
were they I don't think they were.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
I don't think they were either. I think the thing
was that there was a lot more you know, for
kids that didn't sit in they fell out of the
school system quite early. We just didn't sort of see them.
Or they could go into you know, the trades and
stuff like. Yeah, but a lot of them end up
in prison.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
I mean our prison cells are full of neurodivigent people
over half.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
So something has to change, right, Yeah, okay, So how
can we support.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Both the children and the parents who are neurodivision?
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Compassion? Yeah, compassion, kindness, leaving your biases at the door,
just really really hard.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
We might think we have and then we'll come through
the door and we'll be like, oh, well, well if
she just had was feeding them chicken instead of those
chicken nuggets, then you know, like everything, and so it's
just kind of leaving all that behind and saying what
can I do to help? What can I or you know,
(35:09):
what would what do you need? Yeah, replacing that instead
of the judging the how can I help this situation?
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yeah? Yeah, take your breath and actually think of others
and yeah, be with them. I suppose.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Sonya podcast is called ask Me Anything, And so far
I have done a lot of asking, So this is
your opportunity to ask me something if you would like to.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Okay, Paula, There's so much I could ask you. I
was thinking about Paninis and Bowld, but I want to
go deeper. You a Minister of Police for a short
time relatively, I think, And so I'm just thinking, you know,
there are ADHD dyslexic people in our prison cells at
(36:04):
crazy rates. The intersection with the justice system for neurodivergent
people is huge. What do police know about how to communicate,
how to approach, how to deal with people whose minds
are wide differently.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
But Sonya, it'd be the same as what you say
about teachers. You know they get what one lecture you
know that they don't that's voluntary. They don't even compulsorily
have to go and the whole of their training. And
I would argue, you know, look, so I can't speak
to it because that's very operational ast to how they
train the police and what they do. But what I
(36:43):
would say is it's like they are going to be
dealing with people that are neurodiverse, that have got mental
health issues all the rest of it, and their ability
in training around that is very limited and I just
have to be honest. And so then it's like any profession,
if you like, you've just got a real range of personalities,
(37:04):
a range of expertise. Heck, they've all got many of
them have got neurodiverse children or you know, so there's
all of that in there, and you'll meet wonderful and
then you'll meet others that just kind of don't understand
or even perhaps want to, which is awful, but they
are actually representative of society as a whole. Yeah, and
(37:27):
there's probably not that level of that level of training
and that level of understanding. But then what we send
people to courts and judges don't understand either do they know?
Speaker 3 (37:41):
And there's just that whole narrative of you know, you
should know the consequences to your actions, and everyone knows
right from wrong, and especially ADHD dyslexic people, and our
jails is so high. And I just look at my
daughter and how she was, and I really was like,
how do I stop the that she's on? And we
(38:01):
were lucky, but she could quite easily have gone in
the other direction.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
But so on you we were even learning lessons, right,
So you know, if I think about Tana Porter, you know,
and he had he had fetal alcohol syndrome, so you know, different,
very different. But you know, he went to jail for
something he didn't do because of how we interviewed effectively.
I'm sorry, I'm not the expert on this, but you
know what I mean, because of how we presented and
(38:27):
how he was unable to answer questions probably in all
the rest of it. And we learned lessons from that
as to how we treat people with differences or with neurodiversity.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
And I don't know the answer to there, you know, but.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
We've got a case that's you know, I've got a
person that's right in front of us and has been
through how.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Yeah, have we learned anything? I think we do learn
and then we forget again, Yeah, because it's so much
easier to go, well, you've got to be held accountable
for your actions. I don't get no excuses. But if
we kind of take a step back and go, what
were the what was the issue surrounding this?
Speaker 1 (39:10):
And I'm like, you know, you know how you said
about our teachers, I'm the same with the police. You know,
I just will never put them down, and I just think,
but they are you know, overworked, and not given the
level of support that they need.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
And that's the reality. And sometimes I bet it's just okay,
well I don't have to deal with that now, and.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
But yeah, and so we've got to be real, right, Yeah, yeah, Yeah,
it's just, you know, the amount of people that they're
encountering that have these sort of different brains that you know,
even sensory stuff that is hard for them.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
I mean, I feel bad for the police that they
don't get that training, you know, because it's very hard
to understand. Otherwise it's a very big topic.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Is I'm very very big.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah, and I think, yeah, yeah, I've got so much
to say about this, Paula, I could this could be
a serious in itself. I just yeah, so I hope,
I've Yeah, there's just so much to say. And I
just I'm really aware that there are so many people
suffering and we sort of don't see them, and we
don't they don't feel that they can talk about it,
(40:19):
and yeah, that's kind of it's my mission, my copappa
is to ease the suffering.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, well, thank you, I mean, and I mean, thank
you for coming and thank you for talking about it,
you know, thanks for all the help that it does
give all those parents and people out there because they
genuinely need it right, you know, and they need to
know that they're not alone.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Not alone. Now we're fighting, we're fighting for you, and.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
There one loves better.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
They're wonderful, chaotic households and lives can actually get better
and yes, good times.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
So season two of No Such Thing as Normal will
be out on Saturday, sixth of July.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
So that's exciting, with a new episode dropping every week
so they can find it on iHeartRadio or any podcast platform.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
And that's it for another episode of Asking Anything.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
You can get in touch with me by emailing ask
Paula at ncd me dot co dot InCD Feel free
to send me three questions. Find me on Facebook, Instagram
and LinkedIn. Make sure you follow Ask Me Anything on
iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
I'm Paula Binet Ask Me Anything. Goodbye
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