Duncan Grieve: Spinoff founder expects more industry cuts to come following NZME restructure

A media commentator says cuts at NZME are just the latest in a troubled industry. 

NZ Herald and Newstalk ZB owner NZME is proposing a restructure, with a net loss of about 38 roles.

Spinoff founder Duncan Grieve says all around the world massive cuts are taking place while other brands disappear completely. 

He says it's not a problem which is likely to go away.

"It wouldn't shock me if this was just setting off another year of that - and it might not be anything like the biggest we're going to see."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk st B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
It's a heavy old day at this company. Almost forty
rolls are set to be cut at The Herald's business
desk and News Talk SETB.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Now.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
All these three brands are owned by New Zealand Media
and Entertainment, commonly known as nz ME. We are restructuring
our newsroom operation. The editor of The Herald has said
in the press that the annual print advertising has fallen
by ten million dollars between twenty twenty two and twenty
twenty four. Digital advertising was also down the same period,

(00:46):
but not to the same extent. But when you don't
have ten million dollars worth of income, you can't employ
all the people you used to be able to employ.
We asked Murray if you'd talk with us. He would not.
We also ask anybody from NZB to talk with us.
They would not. So today we're going to talk to
Duncan Grieve, who has been with the spinoff, and at
the spinoff he hosts the Fold Media Bugs. Hello Duncan.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
Andrew.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
So it finally hit in zen ME because it's already
hit TV and Zaid news Hub and basically the rest
of the industry including you.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, that's correct. I mean it's not like this is
the first times been hit, but it's probably the hardest
that's been hurt.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
So some people say it's because of politics, but of
course we kind of know if you're in the industry,
that's just bolded at. I actually had a cup of
coffee with Murray Kirkness over in a cafe and he said,
what people don't understand is that this is an industry
wide problem. It's an industry wide problem in New Zealand,
and in fact, it's an industry wide problem right around
the world. Is he right, Yeah, he's absolutely right.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Like if you if you paid too much attention to
the media, as I have the misfortune of doing this.
This is a weekly you know, all all over the
world you see like massive job cuts, but you also
see you know, as we did last year with news
have you see brands just disappearing completely. So you know,

(02:15):
in New Zealand, unlike a lot of the other sort
of anglosphere countries, you know, it's its economy is going
backwards there, you know, the media and other countries is
going backwards, even though their economies are going forward, so
in some you know, bleak respects, it's surprising to me
that there's not more, you know, more and deeper cuts.

(02:40):
And you know, it wouldn't shock me if this was
just setting off another year of that, and and it
might not be anything like the biggest we're going to see.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Is it because the public have lost trust in the media.
I don't.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
I wouldn't want to completely discount that, but I think
that it's the public has never completely trusted the media.
Let's be honest, And you know, pains to say that.
What matters is whether you trust the media as a whole,
as an institution. It matters whether you trust the media
you consume just the same as you know, you might

(03:15):
not trust one lot of politicians, but as long as
you trust your local electorate MP, you're okay. I think
the much bigger problem is that we've got it. We've
just got a sort of a structural issue with the
sort of financial underpinnings of the media. It was previously
wholly and relatively well funded by advertising. Now it's increasingly

(03:37):
audiences which have to pay, and it's just taking a
while for people to realize that. And the longer it takes,
the smaller it gets, and.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
That means we don't have journalists. And the question will be,
because there has been just the most remarkable year, do
we have enough journalists left in the country to properly
report the news? Because you know, these social citizen journalists
who are on social media, they believe they can report
the news, but many of them are actually finding the
news from a real journalist who works in legacy media
and then forwarding their spin on it.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yeah, I think, I mean, that's that's a perfect encapsulation
of it. I think that people when people say they
get their news from TikTok or Facebook or Instagram, most
commonly what they're talking about is someone who will recap
particular elements of the news, whether it's in a vertical
video or a two hundred and eighty character format. But

(04:29):
those people aren't almost never doing their doing original reporting.
They're just simply reading original reporting from somewhere else and
broadcasting it to their audience. So, you know, your fundamental
problem remains. You know, the work of journalism is hard
and expensive and not always popular, but they're the mechanism

(04:52):
to fund its production just just isn't there anymore? And
that's why you know that the feed digital news Bargaining
Bill has been such a contentious issue lately. But the
idea that social media can replace what you know, journalists
and as a does as a as a function for
society and democracy, as fastical and doesn't stand up to

(05:13):
even the most basic scrudinary.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
Okay, so what have we got for a business model?
Michael bogs Boggsy as we call them, our CEO, says
video is the fast growing area where zi me could
grow its audience.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
Now, to be.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Fair, none of us know what he's talking about, do you.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
I mean I do to an extent, there's sort of
you know, there's there's two key revenue trends for journalism,
right like there's there's audiences, and there's advertisers. Advertisers and
particularly the media agencies that represent them, really love video advertising.
It's a close cousin to TV advertising, which used to
be you know, the biggest noise in media is from

(05:53):
a funding perspective, So everyone people still want to buy that.
So if you can create inventory, then plausibly you know
that that's a that's a great business. The thing is,
I think when someone goes to the Herald site or
goes to the news b site. They want to consume
a particular form. Maybe it's audio, maybe it's text. The

(06:15):
video is for the most part autoplays. It's a bit
of an annoyance where the Herald, I think, potentially have
a point and a play is on YouTube, which is
rapidly becoming the biggest thing in advertising anywhere, and the
Herald's actually had some real success with putting video, whether
it's short documentaries or just news breaking news packages on

(06:39):
there and that has a fifty five to forty five
revenue share. Yeah, okay, so there is a case there.
It's not proven, but it's plausible.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Absolutely, it's plausible. But at the same time, I know,
being in the industry, we were told the podcasts with
the futures, but we still haven't quite figured out how
to monetize podcasts. But if we could, because we do
such great podcasts, we wouldn't have the problems that we've
got at the moment. Anyway, Can I just ask you, finally,
how are you going at the spin off? Because when
you hit these walls of adveratis as in drying up,

(07:09):
you went to get more paying subscribers. Do that bear fruit.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yeah, well we're sort of you know, as Shane reported
on last year, we hit a bit of a wall
in November of last year and we wrote an open
letter which which kind of laid out to our audience
what was going on and what we needed them to do.
And we're by no means out of the woods, but

(07:36):
we've been really really heartened by their response. And I
do think there's something in saying to your audience, this
is how it has to be and letting them decide
ultimately the scale of your organization. So you know, if
you're listening to this and you enjoy the Herald but
you're not a subscriber, I would strongly suggest that if

(07:56):
you want it to be around and you want it
to continue to provide the function that does for you
in your life, that you don't just look at the
free version that you that you pick up A paid's
up to.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
All right, And I think you for your time down
can grieve

Speaker 1 (08:08):
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