Mark Robinson: NZ Rugby CEO on the body posting a $19.5 million loss

New Zealand Rugby has posted a $19.5 million loss for 2024. 

Since NZR brought US fund manager Silver Lake on as an equity partner in June 2022, the national body has posted total accumulated losses of around $76 million over three years. 

NZR is trumpeting record income of $285 million dollars against the loss. 

CEO Mark Robinson told Mike Hosking that much of the deficit is as a result of investment, and putting all those aside, the deficit is just under $6 million over the last four years.  

He says that they’re making choices to fund investment and growth for the future, and you can see some green shoots coming through. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
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Speaker 2 (00:16):
For the third year in a row, the New Zealand
rugby unions lost money. This time it's nineteen point five million.
They have rolled out plenty of defense. There's record revenue
coming in, good reserves. Of course, not a cash loss,
but a loss is a loss. So what's the plan.
Mark Robinson is the endz our boss and he's with us. Mark,
Good morning, Boding Mike. When does you stop losing money?

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Well, the other question could be, you know, when do
we said about how about we do with my question,
when do you stop losing money? Well, well, well, we're
always working towards a break even or better position, and
that's what we've achieved this year. You're right in your
intro and saying that. Put aside and look at the
adjusted result. If not for the investment choice we made

(00:58):
three years ago, which the whole game agreed to when
we did Project Future, and then a late swing in
effex right at the end of the year, we were
to break even.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
So the model is improving if you look at the
last or four years. If you' tapped three years and
the year before that, we've generated over over a billion dollars.
And if you put to side the investment we've made
over forty million dollars into shoring up our stakeholders, so
direct investment into the players, provincial unions, superclubs and all

(01:28):
our other partners And you look at the investment we've
made into the digital and content space and this effects shift.
Like I say, you put that to the side, the
deficit's been just under six million dollars as an operating
business across that time, So you know, you have to
take into account the fact here, Mike, when you look
around the world, especially in rugby, a lot of these

(01:48):
losses are just straight on sort of keeping lights on
and getting the groceries and all the basics. We are
actually making choices to make investment and growth for the
future here, and you can see some green shoots coming
through as it relates to Toyota signing this week, we
hope some We've got some other announcements in the next few
months around partnerships, so are definitely signaling now that our
improved reach digitally, both domestically and internationally is starting to

(02:11):
pay dividends.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
So to replacement for Anys in terms of dollars.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
Look, the properties are different, aren't they. So we've got
Toyota coming in as a partner on our training kit
and we are working through a potential partnership on shorts.
So any us had both of those properties.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
So are you close to a deal or you can't
say that on the rest of it on that we're.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
Working We're always I think I've said this through the
discussions with any of us in the first quarter of
the year.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
We are always.

Speaker 4 (02:42):
Having conversations with partners, be they existing ones and making
sure those relationships are really strong and with the possibility
of increasing and improving those in terms of value or
potential new ones. So that's you know, that's the case.
And as I say, i'd i'd like to think in
the next little while we've got more to say as
it relates to those other properties and actually.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Have anybody that you can announce this year.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well, that's what're working on and we're.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Working on you don't so currently don't. I'm just trying
to work out how hard it is to go to
the international market to get an international name, to get
on the front of an all black jersey, and whether
or not, there's it's slim pickings out there.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
Well.

Speaker 4 (03:22):
I think by the fact that we've been able to
find Toyota as a partnership is a strong signal that
the interest is really strong. And I said that right through,
you know, from January onwards, I've been signaling that that
is evidence of that, and there will be future announcements
may soon. I just can't put an exact date on those.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Minds. The money, here's my concern, and I don't have
a vested interest other than being a fan. When you're
bringing in more revenue than you ever have, which you
are so well done, and you're still losing money, something's broken.

Speaker 4 (03:56):
Yeah, And we've been also very clear around that too.
And the conversations we've had for several years now is
that as the business grows and the scale increases and
revenues can continue to lift, of which we're confident of
continue to achieve, the fundamental funding frameworks we have around

(04:17):
the game need to be looked at. So that's what
this next six months is about. We've always signaled that
this is the year to try and look at the
way our funding agreements work with provincial unions. It was
the players and through this course, we have a whole
lot of things lining up for us to be able
to do that where those agreements come to an end
and need to be looked at. So look, we've had
a great couple of days in Wellington where we did

(04:38):
have all those stakeholders I just mentioned and others in
the rooms and that we were having meetings in and
we had some really good conversations about what the next
six months could look like. And I think the game
is aligned about the possibility. If we can do that,
then we're going to be in a fantastic space going forward.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
In simple terms, you said yesterday, we need to have
a financially sustainable model. Do you have a financially sustainable
model as you sit and talk to me right now?

Speaker 4 (05:05):
Breaking up? My got you, Mike, do do you.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Have a financially sustainable model as you sit here talking
to me right now?

Speaker 4 (05:13):
Look, we've got a lot of work going on to
be able to present to the board at the end
of this month on what the model could look like.
And it could take a whole number of sort of
shapes and sizes and all that sort of thing. But
then ultimately, as is the beauty of sport and national
sporting organizations. This is all about partnership and consensus eventually,

(05:35):
so we have to be able to get back in
the room with our stakeholders and partners and be able
to work through those models with them.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
So yeah, I mean.

Speaker 4 (05:42):
There's loads of ideas as to what the model could
look like and we just had to take our time
and work through this. But the pointers might be enough
revenue in the game and we continue to drive revenue.
It's just how it's a portion and allocated. And that's
why having a strategy that we clearly articulated to stakeholders yesterday,
aligning with that strategy where everyone can see themselves in

(06:05):
that strategy, and then allocating resource on that basis sustainable
model is the key.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Appreciate your time, Mark Robinson, who is the New Zealand
Rugby CEO.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
What did your line break up?

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Just there for more from News Talks ed B Listen
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