December 22, 2024 • 49 mins
In the first episode of Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, Canadian music superstar Rick Astley talks his life, the dangers of fame and the memoir he released this year.
Then we hear from Celebrity Treasure Island and ZM host Bree Tomasel about her upbringing and coming to the New Zealand radio market as an Australian.
And TV show The Bear is one of the most critically acclaimed shows of recent years. Francesca caught up one of the show's stars, Matty Matheson.
Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin brings you the best interviews from Newstalk ZB's The Sunday Session.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. The big names, the fascinating guests,
the thoughtful conversations, bringing you the best interviews from the
Sunday Session. This is Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, empowered
(00:27):
by News Talks ed B.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hi and welcome to the summer edition of Great Chats
on Franchesca Budkin. And in this podcast we bring you
some of the best feature interviews from the Sunday Session
on News Talks EDB throughout twenty twenty four. Now you
do not need to have lived through the eighties to
know who Rick Ashley is. Every generation knows his biggest song,
(00:49):
Never Going to Give You Up due to its ongoing popularity,
or the online craze of Rick Rolling, or his recent
appearance at Glastonbury. Rick Ashley join me on the show
to talk about his life, the dangers of fame and
the boredom of being a rock star, or the what
he writes about and his new memoir in the book
(01:09):
is where we started the conversation. You've been asked to
write an autobiography before you turn down the opportunity, why now, I.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Think it's been a few things, to be honest. One
of the things is that I'm fifty eight and I'm
going to start forgetting things. I'm already forgetting most things,
so I'll forget most of my life and career, I
think if I.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Carry on.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
More importantly, my mum and dad both passed away in
the last few years, and I felt I really wanted
to be honest because I wanted to be honest about
everything in the book, but especially about my upbringing because
it wasn't particularly an easy upbringing. I don't want anybody
to feel sorry for me, because I've had a great life,
and I think that that upbringing kind of pushed me
to want to do several things, one of which was
(01:53):
have a stable family life. And I've been with the
same woman since nineteen eighty nine and we have a
thirty two.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Year old daughter.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
So my two older brothers and my older sister all
in long term relationships. But dad divorced when I was
about four, and I'm the youngest of the four kids,
and just various things within my childhood I think pushed
me towards once in a career, basically on stage if
you like, if that's what we're putting it down to
(02:22):
because I think I wanted love and attention wherever I
could get it, because I don't feel I got enough
from my mom and dad in a nutshell, And I
don't blame them. They had a very very tough life
themselves and they had a very terrible experience where they
lost a son before I was born and before the
next earl, this Mic was born, So just dealing with
that and other things, I think it was incredibly tough
(02:43):
for them. And obviously I was brought up in my
dad's house and obviously that I think is again it
was very strange back then. So there were just a
lot of things in my childhood that pushed me to
have this pop career, if you like. And it's not
as simple as that sentence explains it, but yeah, I
just wanted to be really honest and actually delve into
it a bit, you know, No.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
You absolutely do. What was it like being a teenage
in the early eighties in the north of England.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, I wouldn't say great, if I'm honest. The little
town that I'm from was kind of a tough town,
I think. I mean, it's not like the typical you
know story of like, oh it was grim up north,
as British people say, but it wasn't. It wasn't sexy
and exciting unless probaty that way, And there wasn't a
(03:33):
lot of opportunities really in terms of like trying to
get into a band and stuff. There were a couple
of bands in my school, one of which I was
in and I was the drummer, and then I went
on to join another band later after school days and stuff.
But it wasn't exactly like a hotbed of music. A
little town that I'm from, and we had Manchester and
Liverpool either side of us, kind of like twenty miles
(03:54):
each way either way. But I think in terms of
like I think what was part of my weekly routine
was to go to the local cricket club to a
disco and hear DJ's play kind of cool records, not
just the pop records that were in the charts, but
cool records.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
And I kind of loved that and that was a bit.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Of salvation, I think, and just being in a band
with some friends that was as well, you know what
I mean, It really kind of it was getting me
out of my home life. Let's prove it that way,
and I kind of needed that thing, but it wasn't great.
I don't look back on living in newt lu Willows
where I'm from, as amazing experience. To be honest, I'm
not doing it any disservice, but I am doing it
a bit of disservice.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
But they got how did you get adamusion?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Well, I met a guy called Pete Waterman who was
part of the you know about to be fabulous stockache
in Waterman who dominated the pop charts for quite a while.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
But when he saw me.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I was in a band with some friends and we
were okay, you know, we were playing the local pub
scene and stuff like that, but we weren't great. And
he wasn't interested in signing a band. He just wanted
to sign singers. And I didn't know who was but
he had red leather pants and he had a jack,
so I thought that'll do. That's a good start for
a pop maestro. And I just went to London with
(05:11):
him and then, you know, for meetings and stuff like that,
and I went to their studios and I didn't know
stock Aking Watermon were nobody did really, you know, they
were just in the beginning of what they were doing,
and as I signed a deal with them. About a
few months later, they had the first massive record with
Dead or Alive called used being Around like a record
and it was such a great song that I think,
and a great track, and it was massive, and it
(05:33):
kind of like was their calling card to the rest
of the industry. And they never stopped. They just kept
having hits after hit. So in the meantime I ended
up kind of being one of the t boys at
the studio because I had to go on the back burner.
They didn't have time to work with me, you know,
because they're getting big artists who were already having hits
kind of thing were coming to them to say, give
us another one kind of thing. So yeah, that was
(05:54):
kind of weird really, but it was also a bit
of an apprenticeship, you know. I got to be at
the studio through through some of the most amazing moments
that they had, you know, where they were literally having
a hit record cup weeks, which I thought not was normal,
but I kind of thought, well, other studios must be
doing this, but they weren't. Obviously, hit records were being
(06:15):
made in London, of course they were, but I mean,
these guys were doing it every few weeks, so it
was an amazing place to be. And obviously I got
I think I got the best song they ever wrote,
which is never going to give you up, so sure did.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
How were they as they sort of started tuning out
all these hits? How were they regarded by the rest
of the industry now and listen.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
I mean the music industry didn't really particularly like them.
I mean, record labels did do had pop artists because
they would send them over there and they'd give them
a hit kind of thing in the beginning, you know.
And then obviously they started signing things themselves like Kylie
and Jason and lots of other stuff. But the music
press kind of hated them, and that was that was tough,
I think for me and probably some of the other
(06:56):
artists that work with them, because they kind of hate
you before they've even heard the record, because they've just
seen stock Atking Waltman's name as writer, producer and gone,
we hate this.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Before we even hear it.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
So I don't think I got as much as some
people did working with them in terms of negative But
one of the things I loved about going to America
is that nobody knew how they were, so I kind
of went to America and it was like, okay, great,
So if they liked the record, they liked the record,
that's it. There's no you know, they just weren't interested
in talking about them because they didn't care. Because they
didn't they didn't really have many hits in America. You know,
(07:27):
my stuff kind of slipped through the net and I
had a few there and and that sort of changed
perception of me a little bit. I think even in
the UK it's sort of you know, if you if
you're a British artist and you go to America and
have a number one record, people just suddenly raise an eyebrown,
go what is going on? Because lots of British artists
who are massive and could be massive obviously, you know
(07:48):
in where you guys are and you know, Australian and
all that sort of part of the world.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
It doesn't always mean that they're going to crack America.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
You know, they can crack the rest of the world
sometimes and just not crack America. It's weird, but I'm
not saying I cracked it, but I had, you know,
quite a few hits there and stuff. I'm toured there
and everything and I think it did change people's perspectives.
I think they were a bit more open to, well,
we'll see what happens with this guy.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
You know, so Pete Woodman, he pitched you to RCA,
they gave you the deal, and kind of off you wined.
I mean, you were so young at the time. Were
you paying attention to these deals? Were you you know,
your of it?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Not? Really?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
No, I didn't really care, to be honest. I mean
I don't think many people do when they get into music.
I mean I have met people who have been through
every minute ship of the deal they're going to sign,
and the points of this and if we have a
break point here, what does this mean? And if I
have to buy the album back in seven years time,
it blah blah blah whatever. But most people who get
a record deal just go, great, let's get on with it.
(08:48):
That means I get to make a record and we'll
see what happens. And that's kind of where I was.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
It was a bit.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
It was a bit strange because obviously I spent so
much time at the Stockachking Waterman building while they were
making a lot of these early hits that they had
making Tea for banana armor and god knows who else
that you start to hear things and you do start
to understand.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Okay, so publishing is a completely different thing. And I
didn't know that. You know, I knew nothing, And.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
You sort of got a grasp of the fact when
someone had a hit record because I was around Pete
a lot. I lived in his flat for quite a
few months, used to go into work with him every morning,
and I'd be in the pub with them at night,
and I'd just sit there just I wouldn't say much.
I just sit there soaking it all up. And you
would start to realize that, well, okay, well, if I
actually have a biggot record, that's going to I mean,
I know, you know that's going to change your life.
(09:37):
But you can actually see it when you're around it,
if you know what I mean. Because the guys kind
of all bought Ferraris after about twelve months, you know
what I mean. So you think, okay, well this does
seem to work.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
You know. But I wasn't really bothered.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
I mean, it's easy to say that because I did
make quite a lot of money, But I mean, I
don't think I was bothered about it. I just don't
think that was really I just wanted to make a record,
I think, and yeah, and obviously go on tour and
do all of that.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
I don't think that.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I don't think many people's motivation is, you know, the
money straight off.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
That's I don't know's. I just don't think it is really.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
How was the pop star life in those early days.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
To be honest, it's unbelievably boring of me to say this,
but it was a bit monotonous because I wasn't in
a band with three or four other friends where we
wouldn't turn up to things because we were all hammered
from the night before. I just told the world with
a manager doing promo basically for like a year and
a bit before I ever got to do gigs, because
(10:40):
nobody wanted me to do concerts, because they didn't make
money out of me doing concerts, particularly, you know, they
made money out of me doing TV shows that sold
a million records, you know. So that's what I did,
and I just I did. I kind of did what
I was told. And I don't mean that in a
kind of like being a child or being an innocent
or being a what have you. It was kind of
I didn't have anything to compare it with. Someone just
(11:02):
showed me a fax with like a load of dates
on it and when that's where you're going for the
next six and I went, Okay, let's go, and I
just did it. And also think because just traveling, I
mean I never, you know, as a kid, I went
to a few European countries, but just for holidays and stuff,
and only a couple And then literally I was on
a plane almost every day of my life, and I
(11:25):
was going absolutely everywhere. I mean, even in that first
the first six months of it was mainly Europe. I
seem to remember. I don't even think we went to
America or Japan or obviously you know, down to Australia,
New Zealand anything like that for I think even into
the next year of it. But in that next year
I probably went to America like four or five times,
I think, and consider i'd never been to like contantly,
(11:47):
not constantly, but kind of going like I can see
it on that list, we're going again. And also when
we went to America as a as a real kind
of kind of idea of it, we'd go for weeks.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
We didn't just go for like five days.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I'd go to America for three or four weeks and
be doing radio on TV every single day. And I'm
not that's not a complaints. That's what it takes off
a hit record. It's a big old place and you
have to keep at it. But I just don't think
I'll use that word again. It wasn't very sexy.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
It just wasn't.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
And this is what's so great about the book. And
just could have you know, I mean, I totally lived
the eighties pop scene and so just all these names
in these stories and things, and it's all just I
so enjoyed reading it. Fame is it? Is it fun
or did you struggle with it?
Speaker 4 (12:33):
I struggled with it a lot.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
There's parts of it that are fun, and there's parts
of it that are more fun today than they were
when I was truly, actually really famous. I think now
I get to enjoy it and it's a bit more
of a switch now. I mean, I am not exaggerating
to say that I sometimes play in front of, you know,
even at my own gigs, sometimes ten thousand people, because
I do arenas now in the UK, not everywhere, but
in the UK can and I'll go and do that,
(12:56):
and I can be putting petrol in the car on
the way home if I'm not on the tour bus
because I've decided to go home for a day or so,
and I'll not not I could jump on the front
bonnet of the car and sing never going to give
you up, and no one would no one would care,
Honest to god, It's it's frighteningly weird sometimes because I've
got the more screaming the song at me at the
(13:16):
end of the gig.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
And like I say, in front of an arena full
of people.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
And then I can be on the motor on the
way home think I better get some petrol, and I
don't even think twice about, you know, whether whether I
should do it or not, or oh, someone's going to
recognize me or anything. I don't even think twice about it.
And that I think is an amazing, wonderful thing. Whereas
I think back then, I think I would have been
spotted a lot more, and I would have been I
(13:42):
just would have been more intimidated by it, Whereas now
I can see it in people's eyes if they've recognized
me as I'm strolling to pay for my petrol, and
uh and I can just I just they'll kind of
look at me and I go all right, and they'll go, oh, yeah,
it's him, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
And I go, yeah, you know, and that's it.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
It's it's kind of crazy, but it's that's I think
that's a much more comfortable way to experience fame than
it was back then. Back then it was a bit nuts, really,
because obviously most of the people who recognize me are older,
and they don't have that hysteria thing about it anymore.
There's not like fifteen year old girls kind of going
a bit loopy because you know, Morton hark Its just
(14:19):
turned up, you know what I mean. Well, actually they
still turn a bit loopy for Morton actually, to be fair,
but they don't do it for me.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Rick.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Writing this book, I wonder, you know, if you really
sort of reflected on that period of time in your
life and the impact that it hit on you.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
I did, definitely.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I mean I spoke to my two older brothers and
my sister about it quite a lot. Spoke to my
wife obviously about it because we've been together for all
that time, and our daughter a little bit as well,
even though she didn't really grow up with me being famous.
I've kind of stopped in it when she was two
or three, and I think it's just important to get
other people's perspectives a little bit and to talk to
(14:56):
them abou how I remember things. And also my old manager,
my ex manager, tops, because he was there through most
of that, a lot of it. You know, I think
what happens is you without you realizing it. It is
quite cathartic and therapeutic and all those things. Because but
I have done a lot of therapy in my life,
not for a long time now, but I did in
my late twenties early thirties because I guess I probably
(15:18):
needed it because of that four or five years of madness,
but I also needed for the things that happened in
my childhood, and I think I wanted to. I really
wanted to kind of be able to be a dad
who wasn't.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Like my dad.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
And I loved my dad and he loved me, but
bless him, he should have been diagnosed and treated. I
think he was like seriously depressed and seriously down at times,
to the point where it was like mania, and you're
thinking kids should not be around that. And I've got
a bit of his temper, and I've got a bit
of his depression, to be honest, I do. But I've
(15:52):
been really super lucky. I've done the therapy, so at
least I see triggers sometimes and I know when I'm
getting in a crappy mood, and I can sometimes just
you know, put Gladiator on, get the biscuits out, make
a cup of time, and say, oh, go for a
long walk and just say, look, you won't feel like
this in an hour with a bit of lock. Just
don't go there, you know. And I think my dad
(16:15):
couldn't do that. It was impossible for him. He had
a switch again, talking and switches, but he had a
switch and it just got flipped and that was it.
He'd go from like singing Frank Sinata to us all
you know, in like the greatest mood ever, to I
just want to smash everything, you know, And it just
wasn't easy to be around.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Really.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
So yeah, there's been a lot of therapy going through
my brain, I think, and you know, going over the
whole process of it, I think, and also because of
my career, you know, it's like it's pretty hard for
a twenty one year old to be put on that
conveyor belt and just say go and run with it.
No one tells you anything, no one gives you a
clue of how to do any of it or what
to feel the ups and downs of it there.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
And listen, we'll see it. We've just seen it recently again,
was somebody. It pushes into the very very edge sometimes
because we're.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Not all built that way to deal with it, even
though we might look like we're dealing with it, because
we might be good at smiling on Telly, but it
doesn't mean to say that you're actually dealing with it,
you know. And obviously I wouldn't swap with anybody. I
wouldn't change any of it. I'm super super happy, I'm
super grateful for everything that happened, and I'm in a
really good spot right now. So but I do know
(17:21):
that sometimes when I see certain artists, younger artists especially,
and I kind of think somebody needs to help them,
because I've been through this a little bit and I
can see that they're not really happy, you know, and
I think that's I don't know, I think I'm not
I'm not I'm not calling out record labels here, but
I'm saying I don't think it'd be a bad idea
(17:41):
to get somebody to just sit down with someone for
a couple of hours and say, you know, almost in
a therapy way, like, look, you've got to be careful.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
You've got that, you know. I don't know whether that happens. Mate.
It didn't mean my day, but maybe it does now.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Record's been such a delight to speak to you and
a real pleasure, and thank you so much for the book.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Thank you, thank you appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
The biggest names from the Sunday session Great Jets with
Fred Jiska Rudge on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks I'd
be that was Rick Astley.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
He always felt like an unlikely pop star, and after
reading his book, he still does. But his experience of
fame is like so many and it was really good
to hear him talk about the fact that industry as
a whole needs to do better to protect those in
it right. One of my favorite interviews this year was
with fellow radio broadcaster and celebrity Treasure Island host Brie
(18:33):
Thomas El. She also released a memoir this year, but
with quite a different and very moving story to tell.
We began our chat with me asking how much fun.
Is it writing about yourself?
Speaker 6 (18:46):
Not fun at all?
Speaker 7 (18:47):
To be honest, it was my worst nightmare all rolled
into one. But at the end of it all, I
think it was really cathartic. It was challenging, for sure,
I think that's what i'd say at the top, but
I got so much out of it in the end.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Why didn't Yeah, So why did you decide to go
here with it? Because I know that when you first asked,
you were like, I don't think so this isn't for me? Yes?
And then what changed your mind?
Speaker 7 (19:12):
I think it was the thought of that maybe my
stories or lived experience could help someone, you know, help
some people with their journey or maybe struggles there going through.
And I thought, if I could help even just one person,
then I've done my job.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
And you've also got a great sense of human and
you write really well. I'll thank so congratulations on the book.
So what was it like being Bree growing up?
Speaker 6 (19:40):
It was great.
Speaker 7 (19:40):
I had a fantastic childhood, Like I grew up in
the country, didn't wear shoes till I was six years old,
you know, on an apple farm, animals, all kinds of things.
Speaker 6 (19:52):
And then you know, something happened.
Speaker 7 (19:54):
To me when I was nine years old, where me,
my mum, and my nan got held up in a
home invasion and that kind of it changed a lot
of things for me and put my life on a
bit of a different trajectory. But looking back on it now,
like the family that I have, I have the most
(20:14):
amazing family, And I mean there was one blip in
such an amazing childhood, you know, and.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
It was it was traumatic, wasn't it. I mean, you
describe it in the book, and I can understand how
that would stay with you. So what impact did it
have on you as a nine year old?
Speaker 7 (20:33):
You know, I don't think I really realized obviously at
the time, because I was nine, But even through writing
this book, and I feel like there's a lot of
things I already knew, But throughout the process of writing
this book, I think I've realized how much that traumatic
event has stayed with me throughout my entire life, you know,
(20:53):
in the form of anxiety, which I have suffered with
since that day, sometimes debilitating, sometimes not present at all.
Speaker 6 (21:03):
But yeah, it's had lasting effects on.
Speaker 7 (21:06):
Me mentally for sure, because you went from, as you say,
the safe, care free childhood. Yeah, but suddenly realizing actually,
bad things can happen.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
You're exactly expected, You're so spot on. That's a horrible
thing for a kid to realize.
Speaker 7 (21:20):
It's a looking back on it now, I get angry,
and I feel like my mum and my nan were
angry as well, because I feel like a part of
my childhood got stolen from me. You know, it got
taken from me, and that does make me angry thinking
back on it now, But you know, it's just one
of those pieces of me that I've learned to live
(21:43):
with and love about myself as well, and kind of
manage throughout my life.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
What was high school like for you? High school?
Speaker 6 (21:52):
High school is such a weird one, isn't it.
Speaker 7 (21:54):
I think I feel like there was amazing parts of
high school, but I was the same as most people.
I was awkward, trying to figure out who I was,
kind of you know, stumbling my way through and figure
it out.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
But I played so much sport. That's what I really
loved in high school, and I feel like they're some
of my best memories from high school. But I was awkward.
But high schools is zoos, right, They're all zoos. Everyone
is just fighting to survive, right, And I think the
sooner we are actually honest with kids out there and go, yeah, sorry,
it's tough. The are zoos just youve got to find
(22:28):
a way to survive. The more we're honest with them
about it, the better it is. Otherwise we'll just pretending
to Oh, no, that the best days of your life
and love it and you gotta love it and you're
sitting there holding on for dear life trying to get through.
Speaker 7 (22:39):
I think that's such a great way to put it.
You know, you put into this situation with this group
of people.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
And you're like be friends with them and get along
with everyone, and you know that's just not real life.
When you leave high school, you're kind of like, oh,
I can choose. You know, who my friends are and
where I want to be. We have things in common.
Speaker 6 (22:58):
Yeah, we have the same point of views.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
How awesome is that? It's great? So when did you
feel like you started to fit in somewhere?
Speaker 6 (23:06):
Yeah, that's such a good question. I think it took
me a long time.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Like I feel like I was figuring things out for many,
many years.
Speaker 7 (23:16):
But as soon as I walked into my first radio job,
I was like, here we go. I've found my people.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Like these people are all just as weird and a
bit batshit as me.
Speaker 7 (23:28):
You know, these are my people, and I truly felt
like I'd found my place. And I feel like a
lot of people will maybe never get that moment, but
that was.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
The moment for me. And I loved reading about the
pranks that you used to do at high school because
that's the first clue that you both know this woman
has made for radio right. And they were just funny.
They were harmless, that were kind, you know, like you're
just laughing along. They were very, very good, though you
wouldn't believe.
Speaker 7 (23:53):
I posted about the book a couple of weeks ago
and my headboarding mistress comments on it.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, but you do name people. I mean you talk
quite honest. I did go all breeze being brave. She's
naming and sort of semi shaming here.
Speaker 7 (24:08):
Exciting I do because I feel like it was important
and they're all a big part of the story, you know.
But she just came out of nowhere. I haven't talked
to her since I was at boarding school. And she comments,
she goes, can't wait to read it.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I don't remember you fondly now. Yeah, yeah, totally. Until
they read this, I hang on them that she wasn't
absolute night there. Every queer person has their own story.
But when did you work out that you were queer?
Speaker 7 (24:33):
It's I feel like it was always something that felt
really natural to me.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Like it wasn't ever a moment of, oh, this.
Speaker 7 (24:42):
Is what I am, you know, it was kind of
like a gradual thing, like as soon as I left
high school, and like we're talking about before, when you're
kind of put into the real world and you're out
there talking to different people from different walks of life.
Because I grew up in a really country town, I
didn't even know what a gay person was till I was,
you know, into my teens. So I think once I
(25:05):
was kind of in that real world, it all kind.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Of started making sense to me.
Speaker 7 (25:09):
And it took me a long time over the next
decade to figure everything out about myself, but it was
probably around when I left high school.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
You told your mum when you were twenty one, Yes,
asked her to keep it a secret, and that is
something that you regret. Why is that?
Speaker 7 (25:25):
I think it's the biggest regret I have in life
for sure, and I think, looking back on it now,
is because I asked her to keep it a secret
from my dad, who is a staunch Italian Catholic man, and.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I didn't know how he would take it.
Speaker 7 (25:42):
I didn't know if it would change the way he
felt about me and thought about me. And it terrified
me to disappoint him and to you know, change his
love for me. But I think, looking back on it now,
it breed shame. That secret bred so much shame into
my life where it went on and on and on,
(26:03):
and if I could go back, I would change it.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Now. Your mum gives us a lot of lass just
day to day, but also in the book. But your
dad actually made me cry. He did, and I am
talking about Christmas twenty nineteen. I know the exact time
you're talking about. I'll get emotional now. Did I read
and I cried?
Speaker 8 (26:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
It was beautiful.
Speaker 7 (26:24):
It was one of the most amazing moments in my
whole life. And it was so simple, you know, and
it seems so easy. And he pulled me out into
the corridor and said the words that I'd wanted.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
To hear from him for a decade. I love you.
This doesn't change anything for me.
Speaker 7 (26:42):
I'm so proud of you, and you know, I feel
like all of us are just trying to make our
parents proud, you know, and we just want them to
love us. And I don't think he ever, he never
didn't love me. I think he was working through the
years of you know, religious beliefs that he has been
(27:03):
taught his entire life, and he was working through how
he felt about it and all the rest of it.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
But I'm so so grateful for that moment. Yeah, No,
it was really really special. What do you want people,
what do you want people to take from your journey,
especially young people.
Speaker 7 (27:20):
Yeah, that's the right question to ask, I think, Francesca,
because the whole point of the book is it's for
the people who haven't found that courage yet to live
authentically as themselves, whatever that may be, and that can be,
that can look like anything, you know, because I think
(27:40):
if once you've read the book in the end, once
I started doing that, everything else fell into place. All
this weight was lifted off my shoulders and I was truly.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
Able to be happy when I was just being me.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And you know, after that, things take off. I mean
radio career has taken off, yes, and it's going pretty well. Yeah,
it's doing okay. You decided to come to New Zealand.
Are you happy that you made that decision?
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Now?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Best decision I've ever made, Like best decision. Is it
true though, that New Zealanders don't really like Australia's like
you were quite taken back when you came here. I
thought it was like what you described, Oh, we're kind
of cousins at the end of the day, we love
each other. But yeah, it actually there is.
Speaker 6 (28:26):
A bit of angst there, a little bit like not
with everyone.
Speaker 7 (28:29):
I think it's a small percentage, but I was quite
like taken aback when I'd go out and I'd meet
people and they'd be like, oh, you're that bloody Australian,
like get out of here kind of thing. And it
took a while when I think I won people over hopefully, Oh,
I think if absolutely won people over.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
What do you love about radio? You have to give
a lot of yourself, But do you get not back?
I think yeah, I mean you would know you do
this all the time.
Speaker 6 (28:57):
The best thing is connecting with people.
Speaker 7 (28:59):
You know, we're not curing cancer or doing amazing work,
like my partner who's a nursed, but we have this
opportunity to connect with people and sometimes that might be
over you know, fun and funny entertainment, but there's other
moments throughout my career where I've shared really personal, deep
(29:21):
things and you have that connection with people. And that's
the reason I do this job, is to hopefully change
someone's day, even if it's for five minutes. You know, Like,
I think that's such a privilege to be able to
do that every day.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Not only do you have a top radio show, but
you're now on Prime TV, which is really exciting. How
good's that? I mean in longs like you have a
blast hosting celebrity Tature Island.
Speaker 7 (29:45):
I absolutely do. I never thought I would end up
on TV. It was never a goal of mine. I
think probably because I never saw and I talk about
it in the book, I never saw people like.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Me on TV who are a little bit rough around
the edges I used to be on TV. Brew they'll
probably surprise you, Yeah, but no, but wait, before your time,
I didn't have the right hair color either, or the
right sort of facial hair. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (30:07):
So I hear and look at you now, you know,
your hair color is stunning.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Although I would say the one thing that did take
me back was you talk about they send you up
to Fiji, I think for the first series and you
get there into that humidity, and then they say to you, oh,
you're doing your own hair and makeup. Oh at least.
Speaker 7 (30:19):
Please, if anyone's listening, don't watch season one.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
It's not a good time for me. If they got
that cheat these days they get they get your hair
and makeup these days. After they saw me on season one,
they said.
Speaker 7 (30:33):
I think we need to splurge on getting bre hair
and makeup. So I've had amazing hair and makeup from season.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Two, I tell you now.
Speaker 7 (30:40):
But yeah, it's just it's such an amazing show and
it's such a rare opportunity. Like every time I'm there,
I'm like, wow, Like this is so cool. I grew
up watching shows like this, and now I'm here and
I get to be a part of it, and I
pinch myself every time.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
You're a natural at both the radio and the TV.
But in the book you talk a lot about self
doubt and anxiety, which I think is really good. Not
that you have both of those things, but then it's
really good to know that sometimes that people look like
they have it all together sometimes don't. And that's okay.
Oh mate, whatever you want, you know, you can still
follow your dreams and things like that.
Speaker 7 (31:18):
Absolutely, I think underneath it all, I doubt myself constantly,
you know. And imposter syndrome is I think something we
all deal with in the industry, some more than others.
Speaker 6 (31:32):
But yeah, it's it's a really hard thing.
Speaker 7 (31:35):
I feel like I'm constantly second guessing myself.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
But then after six seasons.
Speaker 7 (31:41):
I have these things where I'm like, you've been doing
this for six seasons.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
You've got this, you know.
Speaker 7 (31:46):
So I have both voices in my head kind of
going at once, and most of the time the positive
voice wins.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Thank God, now that the heir and makeup has been
taken care of, that's one listening to worry about that
the show, Oh Bree, thanks so much for coming in. Well, okay,
so that's the radio show, that's the TV show, and
now the book tacked off the list. The what next?
Speaker 7 (32:08):
Maybe maybe I'll host my own comedy show. Who knows?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Do you do stand up comedy? I've done a little bit.
Wasn't good, but you terrifying a It's.
Speaker 6 (32:17):
I have such a massive appreciation.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Oh I couldn't do it. You don't know.
Speaker 7 (32:22):
It's such an art form like it's incredibly difficult because
I mean, for the radio, we sit here and we
talk behind a mic. We don't get to see people's reactions.
So we're like, they're laughing, for sure, they're having a
good time in stand up comedy, they're right in front
of you. Yeah, and if it's silence, it is deafening.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah. No, aside of the fact that I'm not a comedian,
that the second thing is just standing in front of
the group of you know, standing around in front of
people and expecting them to react in a certain way.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
And they're not.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Just being mortified. It's so mortifying.
Speaker 7 (32:52):
Do you find public speaking quite difficult?
Speaker 2 (32:55):
A camera and a microphone's absolutely fine. Put me in
a room with actual people.
Speaker 6 (32:59):
Isn't that funny? Because people in the corner at the
back me too. Isn't that funny? People always say to me,
They're like, but you're on radio two thousands of people.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
And I'm like, so different. We love you all from
Afar Very from Afar Yep.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Bringing you the best interviews from the Sunday session Great
Chats with Francesca Rudkin on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks
at b.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
There is something very special about Bree Thomas l In
this day and age, we speak about the pressure of
social media as well as pear pressure on all of us,
but especially younger people, and you know that we have
to be a certain way, look a certain way, act
a certain way. And then they are a wonderfully authentic
people out there like Brie finding their way in the world.
(33:43):
And I reckon that she would hate it if I
called her a role model, but I'm pretty sure there
are plenty of people out there who appreciated her sharing
her story in twenty twenty four, right, who is a
fan of the award winning TV show The Bear. I
had the pleasure of meeting Matty Matheson recently, who plays
the lovable handyman Neil Fat on The Disney Show. And
(34:08):
what do you know, he's actually a chef in real life,
not an actor at all. We started off by talking
about why he created a new cookbook called Soups, Salads
and Sandwiches.
Speaker 5 (34:20):
Well, you know, I was just sitting there and I
was just like eating a salad, and you know, as
I usually do, I eat lots of salads, avid salad eater.
And then I was just like, I wish I was
eating soup and a sandwich, you know, And then I
was just like, wait, we should make a book about
just soup, salad, sandwiches. Nobody really does that, you know,
like it's always like overlay. It's just like a super
salad sandad like who cares? You know, but it's just like, no,
(34:42):
they deserve their flowers.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Chapter on soup. You really give soup high praise. One
soup sort of even changed your life.
Speaker 5 (34:53):
Yeah, I think I think soup is uh, soup is
a beautiful thing.
Speaker 8 (34:57):
It's it's a you know, we're all made of soup.
Speaker 5 (35:01):
I think it's like if I could eat you know,
FI every day, I would eat FI every day.
Speaker 8 (35:06):
Know it really is. I don't know. I think I'm
just a big baby soup boy.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
What is it?
Speaker 5 (35:14):
Though?
Speaker 2 (35:15):
It is it just good for the soul? Can you
put everything? Can you have everything in the soup from
the broth to actual you know, you know, noodles, Yeah,
like noodles everything.
Speaker 5 (35:26):
You know, there's so many things you want, you know
that just a velvety, beautiful personate maple soup.
Speaker 8 (35:32):
That's nice. That's nice.
Speaker 5 (35:34):
A brothy, spicy beef noodle soup, slurping and eating incredible.
You know, you want a charred broccoli cheese soup awesome,
you know, like this beer. I got a beer cheese
soup with like roasted pumpernickle bread. It's like drinking a
fond do you know it's incredible.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
It's so true. I love the section on sandwiches because
I think most of us, you know, we grow up
going to school with these sorry mum, but pretty lousy
sandwiches and your lunch box, you know, and you just
you get over sandwiches when you're young, and then you
just kind of kind of blow the sandwich genre apart
in this book. I don't know where I'm going to
start when it comes to making sandwiches.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
Well, sandwich they're like building buildings, you know, like there's
real architecture on building a good sandwich, A soft bun,
a toast, and you know, whole wheat, a rye, the filling,
cold meat, hot meat sandwich like fried not fried, grilled.
There's so many things that you can do with sandwiches,
you know. I think that it's just like, you know,
(36:37):
you want to be able to make something that like
when you eat it, it's it's delicious and it's there's crunch,
there's sweetness, there's sour, there's you know, I don't know.
Speaker 8 (36:48):
It's like sandwiches can be incredible, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
And it's a little bit like it sort of turns
into a bit of a treble guide as well, because
you know, you've got sandwiches from New York and Philly
and some of these classics sort of North American sandwiches
that we're probably not hugely familiar with.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
Yeah, Like, I think that's the thing is like, you know,
I'm from Canada, so it's the same type of thing
like growing up in Canada, you know, part of the
whole commonwealth there. And I think it's just like going
to the state. I spend so much time in the States.
I'm like, these cities have these sandwiches that it's just
like we don't eat like that, we don't like, you know,
and it's just like these sandwiches are so iconic and
(37:25):
so powerful, and I'm just like just trying to spread
the love, you know.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
The key to a salad. I thought this was really interesting.
I don't think I've ever read anybody talk about this
in a cookbook before. And you just go on about
the seasoning of a salad.
Speaker 5 (37:41):
Well, yeah, people like, you know, God forbid you put
salt and pepper on it lettuce. Like it's just like
let us should have salt and pepper on it, you know,
Like it is like a thing that's like everything should.
Speaker 8 (37:53):
Be seasoned until it tastes good. That's it.
Speaker 5 (37:56):
Like it's like it's not like one thing determines the other,
like a like a perfectly seasoned salad, like even if
it was just lettuce greens with oil and vinegar and
some like lemon juice and some salt and pepper could
be the greatest thing of all time.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
I love the way to You include Tricia's chuna salad
in this book, and there's these photos of her with
this massive pink sort of tupware that she's filled. And
I think all families have that one kind of salad
we go to of which we make far too much of.
And I don't know it's going to last for lunches
for a week or something, but this is a real
family dish of yours, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (38:32):
I guarantee you there's a big pink bowl right now
filled with half tuna salad in there that she's munching
on all week, for sure.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Everyone has something they love and hate about cooking. I
really hate it when I have guests sover and they
stand in the kitchen and watch me cook. That just
does my head in. What about you?
Speaker 5 (38:53):
I really don't like doing dishes. I'll cook all day.
I'll cook all day. I will do everything. I'll even
clean up, but like just doing the dishes just I'm like,
I don't want to do everything, you know. So I'm like,
I'm happy to cook. I will cook twenty four hours straight,
like if we're doing Thanksgiving or if we're doing Christmas
like a big thing, I'll cook everything. I'll do everything.
(39:15):
I'll do everything, but I'm like doing the dishes. I
just want to lay on the couch and like go
into a comba. You know.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
I kind of thought that was global etiquette when it
came to hospitality and things like, you know, the chef
shouldn't never have to do the dishes. That is the
role for someone else, right.
Speaker 8 (39:32):
Yeah, you know tell Trish that, No, I think, yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
No, okay, so you doing to do a few dishes.
Speaker 8 (39:41):
No, we we like to split it up, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
I really loved as well. In the intro of the book,
you talk about how it's absolutely fine that cooking should
make you uncomfortable, which I think is another really nice,
sort of practical, realistic thing to say, because I'm off
and I often launch into something and just go, I
have no idea how this is going to turn out,
and it's actually really nice to you just go, that's
totally fine, that's normal. We all get like that.
Speaker 8 (40:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
Well, I think every time you cook something, it's still
for the first time, you know, like everything makes a difference,
you know, and I think especially in the home, like
you start cooking something when of your kids runs in
and does something. Then you run away and you burn
the onions or you do something, and then like something's happening.
Speaker 8 (40:23):
And like every time you're doing something.
Speaker 5 (40:25):
But it's just like cooking is a craft. It is
a trade, you know, it is a skill. So it
is like, you know, anything good worthwhile shouldn't be easy,
you know.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I read that out of all the things you do,
you like to keep the books as close to who
you truly are. So what does this book say about you?
Speaker 8 (40:47):
I love my family and I love making uh.
Speaker 5 (40:51):
Soup, salad, sandwiches, you know, Like I think it's just
like I love making.
Speaker 8 (40:56):
You know, I love making tasty sandwiches. I love making salads.
Speaker 5 (40:59):
I love making soups like I love, I genuinely do.
That's what I make most of the time. I usually
definitely make a salad every day, you know, like whenever
we're making as a family, like we always try to
have a salad of some sort, you know. So I
think I think this book is you know, I'm not
really at home making elaborate, chefy, you know dishes.
Speaker 8 (41:21):
I'm not.
Speaker 5 (41:22):
I got three kids at home. I need to make
grilled cheeses like I want to share. I'm making tuna melts.
IM making like food that everybody eats, So make it like,
you know, like I think, I don't. I think most
chefs aren't cooking what they're making at the restaurants.
Speaker 8 (41:34):
You know.
Speaker 5 (41:34):
At at a restaurant, you got all your chefs to
help you make it, you know. At home, it's just
like this just makes something tasty and yummy. It makes
you feel good.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
I do love all the photos in the book. Are
they from your home? I believe that you were on
a farm on Ontario in Ontario?
Speaker 5 (41:48):
Yeah, yeah, that's all like yeah, like we shot you know,
we shot all the stuff, all the lifestyle stuff and
like all that. We were on the farm for about
a week and then and then we shot all the
studio stuff another week.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
I love the wood fid bath.
Speaker 5 (42:03):
It's a nice thing, toasty little it's a toasty little spot.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah, no, that was awesome. I wonder how important it
is to you to have a place like that to go, especially,
I mean these days, you know, you're very very well known.
Is it nice to have a place like that to
come home, to be to feel grounded in?
Speaker 8 (42:23):
It's the best. There's nothing better.
Speaker 5 (42:26):
Like it really is lucky, Like we found a beautiful
farm in our hometown where me and my wife are from.
Speaker 8 (42:32):
And uh, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
Speaker 5 (42:36):
Like, we're very lucky to have found that house and
kind of found our forever home the first time.
Speaker 8 (42:42):
You know, it really is amazing.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
I love it. Just reminded me. I love the photo
of you too, when you're young, like you're reenacted it.
How old were you guys? Like high school sweethearts or something?
Speaker 8 (42:54):
Yeah, we went to Prome together.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Oh gorgeous. No, I love that photo. You don't know,
CARDI look like you've aged.
Speaker 8 (43:04):
Look.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
I love the beer it is such a great she
being hugely popular. Can you tell us a little bit
about how you got involved because you weren't initially in
the cast, is it correct?
Speaker 5 (43:14):
Uh yeah, like I think they already cast a bunch
of people. And then I was brother, was like a consultant,
and then grew into a producer and executive producer roles,
and then uh yeah, Chris was just like, Chris is
my friend, you know, Like I didn't have to audition,
like Chris just called me.
Speaker 8 (43:29):
It was just like, we want you to play this role.
I don't think it was going to be a big role.
Speaker 5 (43:32):
And then it turned into maybe, you know, it has
turned into a bigger role, and yeah, like Chris was
just like, can you act? And I was just like,
I don't know, I don't think so, but maybe. And
I was just like and that's honestly, like, I'm just
lucky that my friend called me.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
You know, did you feel uncomfortable? Was that uncomfortable? And
were working on sick going okay, hang on, what do
I do? How do I do this?
Speaker 5 (43:57):
The very first, the very first, like it's one of
those things where I was very comfortable working with the chefs,
working with the actors working.
Speaker 8 (44:05):
With all the departments making the show.
Speaker 5 (44:07):
Like that's like a collaborative creative thing that I'm used
to making restaurants and working with teams and it's amazing.
But then it's like, okay, now it's like you gotta
shoot your scene. I gotta go stand next to Jeremy
Allen White and talk about some friggin ballbreaker arcade game.
And I'm just like, oh man, it was crazy, Like
you're first time and they're like action. Then you're like wait,
(44:28):
and I started like laughing because I'm like, okay, action,
and then it's just like no, it's for everyone starts.
Everyone starts acting, and you're like what, Like we were just.
Speaker 8 (44:36):
Having to we're just outside hanging out, and like now
we're over here we're acting. I was like, what's going on?
You guys are crazy. But that's like it's amazing. It
really is.
Speaker 5 (44:46):
It's a cool thing to be able to do something
you've never done before and be surrounded by such professionals.
And they gave me the same kind of reciprocal I
was helping them do cooking stuff, they're helping me do
acting and really spend some time with me and really
got me to a really nice place.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I think, you know, absolutely, the show Oh kind of
gives you well. I'm king to hear your thoughts on this.
Just how realistic is it? Because it doesn't look like
the kind of environment that a lot of people would
like to work in. How close to reality is it
working in a kitchen like that.
Speaker 5 (45:21):
It all depends if you've got a jerk chep or not.
I think, like, once again, we're making a television show.
I think that we have somebody who has a lot
of emotional and mental damage. He's coming home to take
over his you know, his brother's restaurant, who's passed away
(45:42):
through something pretty violent and doesn't know how to deal
with anything. Doesn't know how like just being able to
cook well, like Carmie can Carmi can cook? Well, can
he truly lead? It doesn't seem so he's trying to
figure it out. I think there's a lot of people
around him that believe on him. I think there's a
lot of people that don't give up on him, and
(46:04):
I think he doesn't give up on them. And I
think they're all in this weird, you know, toxic little world.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
And I.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
Hope there's not a lot of restaurants like that, and
I you know, I didn't work in a lot. I
worked in like pretty intense restaurants, but you know, I
never worked in a restaurant where it was a family
owned business like that, you know where, and especially in
the circumstances that the Bear takes place. Once again, it
(46:35):
is a television show, and I think some of the
realities are real, and some of the things are about
a character who's been written for television.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
You have a host of restaurants yourself. I know that
you've got a lot going on the cookbook, merchandise lines, acting.
When it comes to the restaurants, of course, It's just
been such a difficult time for hospitality over the last
few years post COVID. How things were you A.
Speaker 5 (47:02):
You know, we're putting back to pieces, you know, we're
putting back to pieces. We're trying to give people a
beautiful experience and trying to make people feel welcomed and
feel part of something, and trying to be consistent with
the love and service that we give and the food
quality that.
Speaker 8 (47:21):
We put out into our restaurants.
Speaker 5 (47:23):
And I think we're in a really good place, to
be honest, you know, I'm very filled with gratitude of
our restaurants and the amount of people that are going
to them and our staff that are working as hard
as they are, and you know, I'm really I'm really
proud of our restaurants and what we're doing, and you
(47:44):
know a lot of them. Like before the pandemic, I
didn't have any restaurants, you know, and now I got
a couple, And it's an amazing thing.
Speaker 8 (47:53):
The pandemic birth my restaurants. I went. I couldn't do
anything else.
Speaker 5 (47:58):
I had to go back to just feeding people, and
it really sparked.
Speaker 8 (48:02):
My love of food and.
Speaker 5 (48:04):
My love like really like I was just like, no
matter what happens, I guess I can. I can go
to the end of my driveway and sell a sandwich
or sell some barbecue, and I can like provide for
my family. Like That's what it got to during the
pandemic where I had to do my barbecue pop up
and from there I opened Parts or from their Maddie's
(48:26):
Patties and Cafe rang and you know Prime Seafood Palace
and Rizos has a Palm and like all these restaurants
and it's just like I didn't have those. I didn't
they were birth from me finding my love of restaurants again.
And like you know, I was in a chef for
you know, almost seven years and then and then I
(48:46):
had to stay home for a while, and then I
had to figure out how to provide for my family.
And food gave me that opportunity. I can go out,
I can cook, and I can provide for my family.
Speaker 8 (48:56):
And that's what we did.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
The best guess from the Sunday session Great Jazz with
Francisca rutget One Radio pallid By News Talks.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
It'd be listening to Matty Matheson, actor from The Bear
and one of the few chefs who managed to create
a living out of HOSPO and COVID. How intimidating would
it be though, to be the only non actor on
set and have to perform in such an intense show.
It didn't seem to phase him at all. I'm not quote,
I'm not sure that i'd be quite so together opposite
(49:27):
Jeremy Allen White. Anyway, thank you for joining me on
this News Talks. There'd be podcast. Please feel free to
share these chats and if you like this podcast, make
sure you follow us on iHeartRadio or wherever you get
your podcasts, don't forget that we're releasing two new EPs
a week Mondays and Fridays throughout summer. I'll catch you
next time on Great Chats.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to news talks there'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. The big names, the fascinating guests,
the thoughtful conversations, bringing you the best interviews from the
Sunday Session. This is Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, empowered
(00:27):
by News Talks ed B.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hi and welcome to the summer edition of Great Chats
on Franchesca Budkin. And in this podcast we bring you
some of the best feature interviews from the Sunday Session
on News Talks EDB throughout twenty twenty four. Now you
do not need to have lived through the eighties to
know who Rick Ashley is. Every generation knows his biggest song,
(00:49):
Never Going to Give You Up due to its ongoing popularity,
or the online craze of Rick Rolling, or his recent
appearance at Glastonbury. Rick Ashley join me on the show
to talk about his life, the dangers of fame and
the boredom of being a rock star, or the what
he writes about and his new memoir in the book
(01:09):
is where we started the conversation. You've been asked to
write an autobiography before you turn down the opportunity, why now, I.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Think it's been a few things, to be honest. One
of the things is that I'm fifty eight and I'm
going to start forgetting things. I'm already forgetting most things,
so I'll forget most of my life and career, I
think if I.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Carry on.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
More importantly, my mum and dad both passed away in
the last few years, and I felt I really wanted
to be honest because I wanted to be honest about
everything in the book, but especially about my upbringing because
it wasn't particularly an easy upbringing. I don't want anybody
to feel sorry for me, because I've had a great life,
and I think that that upbringing kind of pushed me
to want to do several things, one of which was
(01:53):
have a stable family life. And I've been with the
same woman since nineteen eighty nine and we have a
thirty two.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Year old daughter.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
So my two older brothers and my older sister all
in long term relationships. But dad divorced when I was
about four, and I'm the youngest of the four kids,
and just various things within my childhood I think pushed
me towards once in a career, basically on stage if
you like, if that's what we're putting it down to
(02:22):
because I think I wanted love and attention wherever I
could get it, because I don't feel I got enough
from my mom and dad in a nutshell, And I
don't blame them. They had a very very tough life
themselves and they had a very terrible experience where they
lost a son before I was born and before the
next earl, this Mic was born, So just dealing with
that and other things, I think it was incredibly tough
(02:43):
for them. And obviously I was brought up in my
dad's house and obviously that I think is again it
was very strange back then. So there were just a
lot of things in my childhood that pushed me to
have this pop career, if you like. And it's not
as simple as that sentence explains it, but yeah, I
just wanted to be really honest and actually delve into
it a bit, you know, No.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
You absolutely do. What was it like being a teenage
in the early eighties in the north of England.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, I wouldn't say great, if I'm honest. The little
town that I'm from was kind of a tough town,
I think. I mean, it's not like the typical you
know story of like, oh it was grim up north,
as British people say, but it wasn't. It wasn't sexy
and exciting unless probaty that way, And there wasn't a
(03:33):
lot of opportunities really in terms of like trying to
get into a band and stuff. There were a couple
of bands in my school, one of which I was
in and I was the drummer, and then I went
on to join another band later after school days and stuff.
But it wasn't exactly like a hotbed of music. A
little town that I'm from, and we had Manchester and
Liverpool either side of us, kind of like twenty miles
(03:54):
each way either way. But I think in terms of
like I think what was part of my weekly routine
was to go to the local cricket club to a
disco and hear DJ's play kind of cool records, not
just the pop records that were in the charts, but
cool records.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
And I kind of loved that and that was a bit.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Of salvation, I think, and just being in a band
with some friends that was as well, you know what
I mean, It really kind of it was getting me
out of my home life. Let's prove it that way,
and I kind of needed that thing, but it wasn't great.
I don't look back on living in newt lu Willows
where I'm from, as amazing experience. To be honest, I'm
not doing it any disservice, but I am doing it
a bit of disservice.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
But they got how did you get adamusion?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Well, I met a guy called Pete Waterman who was
part of the you know about to be fabulous stockache
in Waterman who dominated the pop charts for quite a while.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
But when he saw me.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I was in a band with some friends and we
were okay, you know, we were playing the local pub
scene and stuff like that, but we weren't great. And
he wasn't interested in signing a band. He just wanted
to sign singers. And I didn't know who was but
he had red leather pants and he had a jack,
so I thought that'll do. That's a good start for
a pop maestro. And I just went to London with
(05:11):
him and then, you know, for meetings and stuff like that,
and I went to their studios and I didn't know
stock Aking Watermon were nobody did really, you know, they
were just in the beginning of what they were doing,
and as I signed a deal with them. About a
few months later, they had the first massive record with
Dead or Alive called used being Around like a record
and it was such a great song that I think,
and a great track, and it was massive, and it
(05:33):
kind of like was their calling card to the rest
of the industry. And they never stopped. They just kept
having hits after hit. So in the meantime I ended
up kind of being one of the t boys at
the studio because I had to go on the back burner.
They didn't have time to work with me, you know,
because they're getting big artists who were already having hits
kind of thing were coming to them to say, give
us another one kind of thing. So yeah, that was
(05:54):
kind of weird really, but it was also a bit
of an apprenticeship, you know. I got to be at
the studio through through some of the most amazing moments
that they had, you know, where they were literally having
a hit record cup weeks, which I thought not was normal,
but I kind of thought, well, other studios must be
doing this, but they weren't. Obviously, hit records were being
(06:15):
made in London, of course they were, but I mean,
these guys were doing it every few weeks, so it
was an amazing place to be. And obviously I got
I think I got the best song they ever wrote,
which is never going to give you up, so sure did.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
How were they as they sort of started tuning out
all these hits? How were they regarded by the rest
of the industry now and listen.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
I mean the music industry didn't really particularly like them.
I mean, record labels did do had pop artists because
they would send them over there and they'd give them
a hit kind of thing in the beginning, you know.
And then obviously they started signing things themselves like Kylie
and Jason and lots of other stuff. But the music
press kind of hated them, and that was that was tough,
I think for me and probably some of the other
(06:56):
artists that work with them, because they kind of hate
you before they've even heard the record, because they've just
seen stock Atking Waltman's name as writer, producer and gone,
we hate this.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Before we even hear it.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
So I don't think I got as much as some
people did working with them in terms of negative But
one of the things I loved about going to America
is that nobody knew how they were, so I kind
of went to America and it was like, okay, great,
So if they liked the record, they liked the record,
that's it. There's no you know, they just weren't interested
in talking about them because they didn't care. Because they
didn't they didn't really have many hits in America. You know,
(07:27):
my stuff kind of slipped through the net and I
had a few there and and that sort of changed
perception of me a little bit. I think even in
the UK it's sort of you know, if you if
you're a British artist and you go to America and
have a number one record, people just suddenly raise an eyebrown,
go what is going on? Because lots of British artists
who are massive and could be massive obviously, you know
(07:48):
in where you guys are and you know, Australian and
all that sort of part of the world.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
It doesn't always mean that they're going to crack America.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
You know, they can crack the rest of the world
sometimes and just not crack America. It's weird, but I'm
not saying I cracked it, but I had, you know,
quite a few hits there and stuff. I'm toured there
and everything and I think it did change people's perspectives.
I think they were a bit more open to, well,
we'll see what happens with this guy.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
You know, so Pete Woodman, he pitched you to RCA,
they gave you the deal, and kind of off you wined.
I mean, you were so young at the time. Were
you paying attention to these deals? Were you you know,
your of it?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Not? Really?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
No, I didn't really care, to be honest. I mean
I don't think many people do when they get into music.
I mean I have met people who have been through
every minute ship of the deal they're going to sign,
and the points of this and if we have a
break point here, what does this mean? And if I
have to buy the album back in seven years time,
it blah blah blah whatever. But most people who get
a record deal just go, great, let's get on with it.
(08:48):
That means I get to make a record and we'll
see what happens. And that's kind of where I was.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
It was a bit.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
It was a bit strange because obviously I spent so
much time at the Stockachking Waterman building while they were
making a lot of these early hits that they had
making Tea for banana armor and god knows who else
that you start to hear things and you do start
to understand.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Okay, so publishing is a completely different thing. And I
didn't know that. You know, I knew nothing, And.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
You sort of got a grasp of the fact when
someone had a hit record because I was around Pete
a lot. I lived in his flat for quite a
few months, used to go into work with him every morning,
and I'd be in the pub with them at night,
and I'd just sit there just I wouldn't say much.
I just sit there soaking it all up. And you
would start to realize that, well, okay, well, if I
actually have a biggot record, that's going to I mean,
I know, you know that's going to change your life.
(09:37):
But you can actually see it when you're around it,
if you know what I mean. Because the guys kind
of all bought Ferraris after about twelve months, you know
what I mean. So you think, okay, well this does
seem to work.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
You know. But I wasn't really bothered.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
I mean, it's easy to say that because I did
make quite a lot of money, But I mean, I
don't think I was bothered about it. I just don't
think that was really I just wanted to make a record,
I think, and yeah, and obviously go on tour and
do all of that.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
I don't think that.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I don't think many people's motivation is, you know, the
money straight off.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
That's I don't know's. I just don't think it is really.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
How was the pop star life in those early days.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
To be honest, it's unbelievably boring of me to say this,
but it was a bit monotonous because I wasn't in
a band with three or four other friends where we
wouldn't turn up to things because we were all hammered
from the night before. I just told the world with
a manager doing promo basically for like a year and
a bit before I ever got to do gigs, because
(10:40):
nobody wanted me to do concerts, because they didn't make
money out of me doing concerts, particularly, you know, they
made money out of me doing TV shows that sold
a million records, you know. So that's what I did,
and I just I did. I kind of did what
I was told. And I don't mean that in a
kind of like being a child or being an innocent
or being a what have you. It was kind of
I didn't have anything to compare it with. Someone just
(11:02):
showed me a fax with like a load of dates
on it and when that's where you're going for the
next six and I went, Okay, let's go, and I
just did it. And also think because just traveling, I
mean I never, you know, as a kid, I went
to a few European countries, but just for holidays and stuff,
and only a couple And then literally I was on
a plane almost every day of my life, and I
(11:25):
was going absolutely everywhere. I mean, even in that first
the first six months of it was mainly Europe. I
seem to remember. I don't even think we went to
America or Japan or obviously you know, down to Australia,
New Zealand anything like that for I think even into
the next year of it. But in that next year
I probably went to America like four or five times,
I think, and consider i'd never been to like contantly,
(11:47):
not constantly, but kind of going like I can see
it on that list, we're going again. And also when
we went to America as a as a real kind
of kind of idea of it, we'd go for weeks.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
We didn't just go for like five days.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I'd go to America for three or four weeks and
be doing radio on TV every single day. And I'm
not that's not a complaints. That's what it takes off
a hit record. It's a big old place and you
have to keep at it. But I just don't think
I'll use that word again. It wasn't very sexy.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
It just wasn't.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
And this is what's so great about the book. And
just could have you know, I mean, I totally lived
the eighties pop scene and so just all these names
in these stories and things, and it's all just I
so enjoyed reading it. Fame is it? Is it fun
or did you struggle with it?
Speaker 4 (12:33):
I struggled with it a lot.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
There's parts of it that are fun, and there's parts
of it that are more fun today than they were
when I was truly, actually really famous. I think now
I get to enjoy it and it's a bit more
of a switch now. I mean, I am not exaggerating
to say that I sometimes play in front of, you know,
even at my own gigs, sometimes ten thousand people, because
I do arenas now in the UK, not everywhere, but
in the UK can and I'll go and do that,
(12:56):
and I can be putting petrol in the car on
the way home if I'm not on the tour bus
because I've decided to go home for a day or so,
and I'll not not I could jump on the front
bonnet of the car and sing never going to give
you up, and no one would no one would care,
Honest to god, It's it's frighteningly weird sometimes because I've
got the more screaming the song at me at the
(13:16):
end of the gig.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
And like I say, in front of an arena full
of people.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
And then I can be on the motor on the
way home think I better get some petrol, and I
don't even think twice about, you know, whether whether I
should do it or not, or oh, someone's going to
recognize me or anything. I don't even think twice about it.
And that I think is an amazing, wonderful thing. Whereas
I think back then, I think I would have been
spotted a lot more, and I would have been I
(13:42):
just would have been more intimidated by it, Whereas now
I can see it in people's eyes if they've recognized
me as I'm strolling to pay for my petrol, and
uh and I can just I just they'll kind of
look at me and I go all right, and they'll go, oh, yeah,
it's him, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
And I go, yeah, you know, and that's it.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
It's it's kind of crazy, but it's that's I think
that's a much more comfortable way to experience fame than
it was back then. Back then it was a bit nuts, really,
because obviously most of the people who recognize me are older,
and they don't have that hysteria thing about it anymore.
There's not like fifteen year old girls kind of going
a bit loopy because you know, Morton hark Its just
(14:19):
turned up, you know what I mean. Well, actually they
still turn a bit loopy for Morton actually, to be fair,
but they don't do it for me.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Rick.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Writing this book, I wonder, you know, if you really
sort of reflected on that period of time in your
life and the impact that it hit on you.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
I did, definitely.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I mean I spoke to my two older brothers and
my sister about it quite a lot. Spoke to my
wife obviously about it because we've been together for all
that time, and our daughter a little bit as well,
even though she didn't really grow up with me being famous.
I've kind of stopped in it when she was two
or three, and I think it's just important to get
other people's perspectives a little bit and to talk to
(14:56):
them abou how I remember things. And also my old manager,
my ex manager, tops, because he was there through most
of that, a lot of it. You know, I think
what happens is you without you realizing it. It is
quite cathartic and therapeutic and all those things. Because but
I have done a lot of therapy in my life,
not for a long time now, but I did in
my late twenties early thirties because I guess I probably
(15:18):
needed it because of that four or five years of madness,
but I also needed for the things that happened in
my childhood, and I think I wanted to. I really
wanted to kind of be able to be a dad
who wasn't.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Like my dad.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
And I loved my dad and he loved me, but
bless him, he should have been diagnosed and treated. I
think he was like seriously depressed and seriously down at times,
to the point where it was like mania, and you're
thinking kids should not be around that. And I've got
a bit of his temper, and I've got a bit
of his depression, to be honest, I do. But I've
(15:52):
been really super lucky. I've done the therapy, so at
least I see triggers sometimes and I know when I'm
getting in a crappy mood, and I can sometimes just
you know, put Gladiator on, get the biscuits out, make
a cup of time, and say, oh, go for a
long walk and just say, look, you won't feel like
this in an hour with a bit of lock. Just
don't go there, you know. And I think my dad
(16:15):
couldn't do that. It was impossible for him. He had
a switch again, talking and switches, but he had a
switch and it just got flipped and that was it.
He'd go from like singing Frank Sinata to us all
you know, in like the greatest mood ever, to I
just want to smash everything, you know, And it just
wasn't easy to be around.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Really.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
So yeah, there's been a lot of therapy going through
my brain, I think, and you know, going over the
whole process of it, I think, and also because of
my career, you know, it's like it's pretty hard for
a twenty one year old to be put on that
conveyor belt and just say go and run with it.
No one tells you anything, no one gives you a
clue of how to do any of it or what
to feel the ups and downs of it there.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
And listen, we'll see it. We've just seen it recently again,
was somebody. It pushes into the very very edge sometimes
because we're.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Not all built that way to deal with it, even
though we might look like we're dealing with it, because
we might be good at smiling on Telly, but it
doesn't mean to say that you're actually dealing with it,
you know. And obviously I wouldn't swap with anybody. I
wouldn't change any of it. I'm super super happy, I'm
super grateful for everything that happened, and I'm in a
really good spot right now. So but I do know
(17:21):
that sometimes when I see certain artists, younger artists especially,
and I kind of think somebody needs to help them,
because I've been through this a little bit and I
can see that they're not really happy, you know, and
I think that's I don't know, I think I'm not
I'm not I'm not calling out record labels here, but
I'm saying I don't think it'd be a bad idea
(17:41):
to get somebody to just sit down with someone for
a couple of hours and say, you know, almost in
a therapy way, like, look, you've got to be careful.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
You've got that, you know. I don't know whether that happens. Mate.
It didn't mean my day, but maybe it does now.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Record's been such a delight to speak to you and
a real pleasure, and thank you so much for the book.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Thank you, thank you appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
The biggest names from the Sunday session Great Jets with
Fred Jiska Rudge on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks I'd
be that was Rick Astley.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
He always felt like an unlikely pop star, and after
reading his book, he still does. But his experience of
fame is like so many and it was really good
to hear him talk about the fact that industry as
a whole needs to do better to protect those in
it right. One of my favorite interviews this year was
with fellow radio broadcaster and celebrity Treasure Island host Brie
(18:33):
Thomas El. She also released a memoir this year, but
with quite a different and very moving story to tell.
We began our chat with me asking how much fun.
Is it writing about yourself?
Speaker 6 (18:46):
Not fun at all?
Speaker 7 (18:47):
To be honest, it was my worst nightmare all rolled
into one. But at the end of it all, I
think it was really cathartic. It was challenging, for sure,
I think that's what i'd say at the top, but
I got so much out of it in the end.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Why didn't Yeah, So why did you decide to go
here with it? Because I know that when you first asked,
you were like, I don't think so this isn't for me? Yes?
And then what changed your mind?
Speaker 7 (19:12):
I think it was the thought of that maybe my
stories or lived experience could help someone, you know, help
some people with their journey or maybe struggles there going through.
And I thought, if I could help even just one person,
then I've done my job.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
And you've also got a great sense of human and
you write really well. I'll thank so congratulations on the book.
So what was it like being Bree growing up?
Speaker 6 (19:40):
It was great.
Speaker 7 (19:40):
I had a fantastic childhood, Like I grew up in
the country, didn't wear shoes till I was six years old,
you know, on an apple farm, animals, all kinds of things.
Speaker 6 (19:52):
And then you know, something happened.
Speaker 7 (19:54):
To me when I was nine years old, where me,
my mum, and my nan got held up in a
home invasion and that kind of it changed a lot
of things for me and put my life on a
bit of a different trajectory. But looking back on it now,
like the family that I have, I have the most
(20:14):
amazing family, And I mean there was one blip in
such an amazing childhood, you know, and.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
It was it was traumatic, wasn't it. I mean, you
describe it in the book, and I can understand how
that would stay with you. So what impact did it
have on you as a nine year old?
Speaker 7 (20:33):
You know, I don't think I really realized obviously at
the time, because I was nine, But even through writing
this book, and I feel like there's a lot of
things I already knew, But throughout the process of writing
this book, I think I've realized how much that traumatic
event has stayed with me throughout my entire life, you know,
(20:53):
in the form of anxiety, which I have suffered with
since that day, sometimes debilitating, sometimes not present at all.
Speaker 6 (21:03):
But yeah, it's had lasting effects on.
Speaker 7 (21:06):
Me mentally for sure, because you went from, as you say,
the safe, care free childhood. Yeah, but suddenly realizing actually,
bad things can happen.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
You're exactly expected, You're so spot on. That's a horrible
thing for a kid to realize.
Speaker 7 (21:20):
It's a looking back on it now, I get angry,
and I feel like my mum and my nan were
angry as well, because I feel like a part of
my childhood got stolen from me. You know, it got
taken from me, and that does make me angry thinking
back on it now, But you know, it's just one
of those pieces of me that I've learned to live
(21:43):
with and love about myself as well, and kind of
manage throughout my life.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
What was high school like for you? High school?
Speaker 6 (21:52):
High school is such a weird one, isn't it.
Speaker 7 (21:54):
I think I feel like there was amazing parts of
high school, but I was the same as most people.
I was awkward, trying to figure out who I was,
kind of you know, stumbling my way through and figure
it out.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
But I played so much sport. That's what I really
loved in high school, and I feel like they're some
of my best memories from high school. But I was awkward.
But high schools is zoos, right, They're all zoos. Everyone
is just fighting to survive, right, And I think the
sooner we are actually honest with kids out there and go, yeah, sorry,
it's tough. The are zoos just youve got to find
(22:28):
a way to survive. The more we're honest with them
about it, the better it is. Otherwise we'll just pretending
to Oh, no, that the best days of your life
and love it and you gotta love it and you're
sitting there holding on for dear life trying to get through.
Speaker 7 (22:39):
I think that's such a great way to put it.
You know, you put into this situation with this group
of people.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
And you're like be friends with them and get along
with everyone, and you know that's just not real life.
When you leave high school, you're kind of like, oh,
I can choose. You know, who my friends are and
where I want to be. We have things in common.
Speaker 6 (22:58):
Yeah, we have the same point of views.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
How awesome is that? It's great? So when did you
feel like you started to fit in somewhere?
Speaker 6 (23:06):
Yeah, that's such a good question. I think it took
me a long time.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Like I feel like I was figuring things out for many,
many years.
Speaker 7 (23:16):
But as soon as I walked into my first radio job,
I was like, here we go. I've found my people.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Like these people are all just as weird and a
bit batshit as me.
Speaker 7 (23:28):
You know, these are my people, and I truly felt
like I'd found my place. And I feel like a
lot of people will maybe never get that moment, but
that was.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
The moment for me. And I loved reading about the
pranks that you used to do at high school because
that's the first clue that you both know this woman
has made for radio right. And they were just funny.
They were harmless, that were kind, you know, like you're
just laughing along. They were very, very good, though you
wouldn't believe.
Speaker 7 (23:53):
I posted about the book a couple of weeks ago
and my headboarding mistress comments on it.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, but you do name people. I mean you talk
quite honest. I did go all breeze being brave. She's
naming and sort of semi shaming here.
Speaker 7 (24:08):
Exciting I do because I feel like it was important
and they're all a big part of the story, you know.
But she just came out of nowhere. I haven't talked
to her since I was at boarding school. And she comments,
she goes, can't wait to read it.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I don't remember you fondly now. Yeah, yeah, totally. Until
they read this, I hang on them that she wasn't
absolute night there. Every queer person has their own story.
But when did you work out that you were queer?
Speaker 7 (24:33):
It's I feel like it was always something that felt
really natural to me.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Like it wasn't ever a moment of, oh, this.
Speaker 7 (24:42):
Is what I am, you know, it was kind of
like a gradual thing, like as soon as I left
high school, and like we're talking about before, when you're
kind of put into the real world and you're out
there talking to different people from different walks of life.
Because I grew up in a really country town, I
didn't even know what a gay person was till I was,
you know, into my teens. So I think once I
(25:05):
was kind of in that real world, it all kind.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Of started making sense to me.
Speaker 7 (25:09):
And it took me a long time over the next
decade to figure everything out about myself, but it was
probably around when I left high school.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
You told your mum when you were twenty one, Yes,
asked her to keep it a secret, and that is
something that you regret. Why is that?
Speaker 7 (25:25):
I think it's the biggest regret I have in life
for sure, and I think, looking back on it now,
is because I asked her to keep it a secret
from my dad, who is a staunch Italian Catholic man, and.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I didn't know how he would take it.
Speaker 7 (25:42):
I didn't know if it would change the way he
felt about me and thought about me. And it terrified
me to disappoint him and to you know, change his
love for me. But I think, looking back on it now,
it breed shame. That secret bred so much shame into
my life where it went on and on and on,
(26:03):
and if I could go back, I would change it.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Now. Your mum gives us a lot of lass just
day to day, but also in the book. But your
dad actually made me cry. He did, and I am
talking about Christmas twenty nineteen. I know the exact time
you're talking about. I'll get emotional now. Did I read
and I cried?
Speaker 8 (26:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
It was beautiful.
Speaker 7 (26:24):
It was one of the most amazing moments in my
whole life. And it was so simple, you know, and
it seems so easy. And he pulled me out into
the corridor and said the words that I'd wanted.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
To hear from him for a decade. I love you.
This doesn't change anything for me.
Speaker 7 (26:42):
I'm so proud of you, and you know, I feel
like all of us are just trying to make our
parents proud, you know, and we just want them to
love us. And I don't think he ever, he never
didn't love me. I think he was working through the
years of you know, religious beliefs that he has been
(27:03):
taught his entire life, and he was working through how
he felt about it and all the rest of it.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
But I'm so so grateful for that moment. Yeah, No,
it was really really special. What do you want people,
what do you want people to take from your journey,
especially young people.
Speaker 7 (27:20):
Yeah, that's the right question to ask, I think, Francesca,
because the whole point of the book is it's for
the people who haven't found that courage yet to live
authentically as themselves, whatever that may be, and that can be,
that can look like anything, you know, because I think
(27:40):
if once you've read the book in the end, once
I started doing that, everything else fell into place. All
this weight was lifted off my shoulders and I was truly.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
Able to be happy when I was just being me.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And you know, after that, things take off. I mean
radio career has taken off, yes, and it's going pretty well. Yeah,
it's doing okay. You decided to come to New Zealand.
Are you happy that you made that decision?
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Now?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Best decision I've ever made, Like best decision. Is it
true though, that New Zealanders don't really like Australia's like
you were quite taken back when you came here. I
thought it was like what you described, Oh, we're kind
of cousins at the end of the day, we love
each other. But yeah, it actually there is.
Speaker 6 (28:26):
A bit of angst there, a little bit like not
with everyone.
Speaker 7 (28:29):
I think it's a small percentage, but I was quite
like taken aback when I'd go out and I'd meet
people and they'd be like, oh, you're that bloody Australian,
like get out of here kind of thing. And it
took a while when I think I won people over hopefully, Oh,
I think if absolutely won people over.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
What do you love about radio? You have to give
a lot of yourself, But do you get not back?
I think yeah, I mean you would know you do
this all the time.
Speaker 6 (28:57):
The best thing is connecting with people.
Speaker 7 (28:59):
You know, we're not curing cancer or doing amazing work,
like my partner who's a nursed, but we have this
opportunity to connect with people and sometimes that might be
over you know, fun and funny entertainment, but there's other
moments throughout my career where I've shared really personal, deep
(29:21):
things and you have that connection with people. And that's
the reason I do this job, is to hopefully change
someone's day, even if it's for five minutes. You know, Like,
I think that's such a privilege to be able to
do that every day.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Not only do you have a top radio show, but
you're now on Prime TV, which is really exciting. How
good's that? I mean in longs like you have a
blast hosting celebrity Tature Island.
Speaker 7 (29:45):
I absolutely do. I never thought I would end up
on TV. It was never a goal of mine. I
think probably because I never saw and I talk about
it in the book, I never saw people like.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Me on TV who are a little bit rough around
the edges I used to be on TV. Brew they'll
probably surprise you, Yeah, but no, but wait, before your time,
I didn't have the right hair color either, or the
right sort of facial hair. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (30:07):
So I hear and look at you now, you know,
your hair color is stunning.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Although I would say the one thing that did take
me back was you talk about they send you up
to Fiji, I think for the first series and you
get there into that humidity, and then they say to you, oh,
you're doing your own hair and makeup. Oh at least.
Speaker 7 (30:19):
Please, if anyone's listening, don't watch season one.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
It's not a good time for me. If they got
that cheat these days they get they get your hair
and makeup these days. After they saw me on season one,
they said.
Speaker 7 (30:33):
I think we need to splurge on getting bre hair
and makeup. So I've had amazing hair and makeup from season.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Two, I tell you now.
Speaker 7 (30:40):
But yeah, it's just it's such an amazing show and
it's such a rare opportunity. Like every time I'm there,
I'm like, wow, Like this is so cool. I grew
up watching shows like this, and now I'm here and
I get to be a part of it, and I
pinch myself every time.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
You're a natural at both the radio and the TV.
But in the book you talk a lot about self
doubt and anxiety, which I think is really good. Not
that you have both of those things, but then it's
really good to know that sometimes that people look like
they have it all together sometimes don't. And that's okay.
Oh mate, whatever you want, you know, you can still
follow your dreams and things like that.
Speaker 7 (31:18):
Absolutely, I think underneath it all, I doubt myself constantly,
you know. And imposter syndrome is I think something we
all deal with in the industry, some more than others.
Speaker 6 (31:32):
But yeah, it's it's a really hard thing.
Speaker 7 (31:35):
I feel like I'm constantly second guessing myself.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
But then after six seasons.
Speaker 7 (31:41):
I have these things where I'm like, you've been doing
this for six seasons.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
You've got this, you know.
Speaker 7 (31:46):
So I have both voices in my head kind of
going at once, and most of the time the positive
voice wins.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Thank God, now that the heir and makeup has been
taken care of, that's one listening to worry about that
the show, Oh Bree, thanks so much for coming in. Well, okay,
so that's the radio show, that's the TV show, and
now the book tacked off the list. The what next?
Speaker 7 (32:08):
Maybe maybe I'll host my own comedy show. Who knows?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Do you do stand up comedy? I've done a little bit.
Wasn't good, but you terrifying a It's.
Speaker 6 (32:17):
I have such a massive appreciation.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Oh I couldn't do it. You don't know.
Speaker 7 (32:22):
It's such an art form like it's incredibly difficult because
I mean, for the radio, we sit here and we
talk behind a mic. We don't get to see people's reactions.
So we're like, they're laughing, for sure, they're having a
good time in stand up comedy, they're right in front
of you. Yeah, and if it's silence, it is deafening.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah. No, aside of the fact that I'm not a comedian,
that the second thing is just standing in front of
the group of you know, standing around in front of
people and expecting them to react in a certain way.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
And they're not.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Just being mortified. It's so mortifying.
Speaker 7 (32:52):
Do you find public speaking quite difficult?
Speaker 2 (32:55):
A camera and a microphone's absolutely fine. Put me in
a room with actual people.
Speaker 6 (32:59):
Isn't that funny? Because people in the corner at the
back me too. Isn't that funny? People always say to me,
They're like, but you're on radio two thousands of people.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
And I'm like, so different. We love you all from
Afar Very from Afar Yep.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Bringing you the best interviews from the Sunday session Great
Chats with Francesca Rudkin on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks
at b.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
There is something very special about Bree Thomas l In
this day and age, we speak about the pressure of
social media as well as pear pressure on all of us,
but especially younger people, and you know that we have
to be a certain way, look a certain way, act
a certain way. And then they are a wonderfully authentic
people out there like Brie finding their way in the world.
(33:43):
And I reckon that she would hate it if I
called her a role model, but I'm pretty sure there
are plenty of people out there who appreciated her sharing
her story in twenty twenty four, right, who is a
fan of the award winning TV show The Bear. I
had the pleasure of meeting Matty Matheson recently, who plays
the lovable handyman Neil Fat on The Disney Show. And
(34:08):
what do you know, he's actually a chef in real life,
not an actor at all. We started off by talking
about why he created a new cookbook called Soups, Salads
and Sandwiches.
Speaker 5 (34:20):
Well, you know, I was just sitting there and I
was just like eating a salad, and you know, as
I usually do, I eat lots of salads, avid salad eater.
And then I was just like, I wish I was
eating soup and a sandwich, you know, And then I
was just like, wait, we should make a book about
just soup, salad, sandwiches. Nobody really does that, you know,
like it's always like overlay. It's just like a super
salad sandad like who cares? You know, but it's just like, no,
(34:42):
they deserve their flowers.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Chapter on soup. You really give soup high praise. One
soup sort of even changed your life.
Speaker 5 (34:53):
Yeah, I think I think soup is uh, soup is
a beautiful thing.
Speaker 8 (34:57):
It's it's a you know, we're all made of soup.
Speaker 5 (35:01):
I think it's like if I could eat you know,
FI every day, I would eat FI every day.
Speaker 8 (35:06):
Know it really is. I don't know. I think I'm
just a big baby soup boy.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
What is it?
Speaker 5 (35:14):
Though?
Speaker 2 (35:15):
It is it just good for the soul? Can you
put everything? Can you have everything in the soup from
the broth to actual you know, you know, noodles, Yeah,
like noodles everything.
Speaker 5 (35:26):
You know, there's so many things you want, you know
that just a velvety, beautiful personate maple soup.
Speaker 8 (35:32):
That's nice. That's nice.
Speaker 5 (35:34):
A brothy, spicy beef noodle soup, slurping and eating incredible.
You know, you want a charred broccoli cheese soup awesome,
you know, like this beer. I got a beer cheese
soup with like roasted pumpernickle bread. It's like drinking a
fond do you know it's incredible.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
It's so true. I love the section on sandwiches because
I think most of us, you know, we grow up
going to school with these sorry mum, but pretty lousy
sandwiches and your lunch box, you know, and you just
you get over sandwiches when you're young, and then you
just kind of kind of blow the sandwich genre apart
in this book. I don't know where I'm going to
start when it comes to making sandwiches.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
Well, sandwich they're like building buildings, you know, like there's
real architecture on building a good sandwich, A soft bun,
a toast, and you know, whole wheat, a rye, the filling,
cold meat, hot meat sandwich like fried not fried, grilled.
There's so many things that you can do with sandwiches,
you know. I think that it's just like, you know,
(36:37):
you want to be able to make something that like
when you eat it, it's it's delicious and it's there's crunch,
there's sweetness, there's sour, there's you know, I don't know.
Speaker 8 (36:48):
It's like sandwiches can be incredible, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
And it's a little bit like it sort of turns
into a bit of a treble guide as well, because
you know, you've got sandwiches from New York and Philly
and some of these classics sort of North American sandwiches
that we're probably not hugely familiar with.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
Yeah, Like, I think that's the thing is like, you know,
I'm from Canada, so it's the same type of thing
like growing up in Canada, you know, part of the
whole commonwealth there. And I think it's just like going
to the state. I spend so much time in the States.
I'm like, these cities have these sandwiches that it's just
like we don't eat like that, we don't like, you know,
and it's just like these sandwiches are so iconic and
(37:25):
so powerful, and I'm just like just trying to spread
the love, you know.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
The key to a salad. I thought this was really interesting.
I don't think I've ever read anybody talk about this
in a cookbook before. And you just go on about
the seasoning of a salad.
Speaker 5 (37:41):
Well, yeah, people like, you know, God forbid you put
salt and pepper on it lettuce. Like it's just like
let us should have salt and pepper on it, you know,
Like it is like a thing that's like everything should.
Speaker 8 (37:53):
Be seasoned until it tastes good. That's it.
Speaker 5 (37:56):
Like it's like it's not like one thing determines the other,
like a like a perfectly seasoned salad, like even if
it was just lettuce greens with oil and vinegar and
some like lemon juice and some salt and pepper could
be the greatest thing of all time.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
I love the way to You include Tricia's chuna salad
in this book, and there's these photos of her with
this massive pink sort of tupware that she's filled. And
I think all families have that one kind of salad
we go to of which we make far too much of.
And I don't know it's going to last for lunches
for a week or something, but this is a real
family dish of yours, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (38:32):
I guarantee you there's a big pink bowl right now
filled with half tuna salad in there that she's munching
on all week, for sure.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Everyone has something they love and hate about cooking. I
really hate it when I have guests sover and they
stand in the kitchen and watch me cook. That just
does my head in. What about you?
Speaker 5 (38:53):
I really don't like doing dishes. I'll cook all day.
I'll cook all day. I will do everything. I'll even
clean up, but like just doing the dishes just I'm like,
I don't want to do everything, you know. So I'm like,
I'm happy to cook. I will cook twenty four hours straight,
like if we're doing Thanksgiving or if we're doing Christmas
like a big thing, I'll cook everything. I'll do everything.
(39:15):
I'll do everything, but I'm like doing the dishes. I
just want to lay on the couch and like go
into a comba. You know.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
I kind of thought that was global etiquette when it
came to hospitality and things like, you know, the chef
shouldn't never have to do the dishes. That is the
role for someone else, right.
Speaker 8 (39:32):
Yeah, you know tell Trish that, No, I think, yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
No, okay, so you doing to do a few dishes.
Speaker 8 (39:41):
No, we we like to split it up, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
I really loved as well. In the intro of the book,
you talk about how it's absolutely fine that cooking should
make you uncomfortable, which I think is another really nice,
sort of practical, realistic thing to say, because I'm off
and I often launch into something and just go, I
have no idea how this is going to turn out,
and it's actually really nice to you just go, that's
totally fine, that's normal. We all get like that.
Speaker 8 (40:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
Well, I think every time you cook something, it's still
for the first time, you know, like everything makes a difference,
you know, and I think especially in the home, like
you start cooking something when of your kids runs in
and does something. Then you run away and you burn
the onions or you do something, and then like something's happening.
Speaker 8 (40:23):
And like every time you're doing something.
Speaker 5 (40:25):
But it's just like cooking is a craft. It is
a trade, you know, it is a skill. So it
is like, you know, anything good worthwhile shouldn't be easy,
you know.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I read that out of all the things you do,
you like to keep the books as close to who
you truly are. So what does this book say about you?
Speaker 8 (40:47):
I love my family and I love making uh.
Speaker 5 (40:51):
Soup, salad, sandwiches, you know, Like I think it's just
like I love making.
Speaker 8 (40:56):
You know, I love making tasty sandwiches. I love making salads.
Speaker 5 (40:59):
I love making soups like I love, I genuinely do.
That's what I make most of the time. I usually
definitely make a salad every day, you know, like whenever
we're making as a family, like we always try to
have a salad of some sort, you know. So I
think I think this book is you know, I'm not
really at home making elaborate, chefy, you know dishes.
Speaker 8 (41:21):
I'm not.
Speaker 5 (41:22):
I got three kids at home. I need to make
grilled cheeses like I want to share. I'm making tuna melts.
IM making like food that everybody eats, So make it like,
you know, like I think, I don't. I think most
chefs aren't cooking what they're making at the restaurants.
Speaker 8 (41:34):
You know.
Speaker 5 (41:34):
At at a restaurant, you got all your chefs to
help you make it, you know. At home, it's just
like this just makes something tasty and yummy. It makes
you feel good.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
I do love all the photos in the book. Are
they from your home? I believe that you were on
a farm on Ontario in Ontario?
Speaker 5 (41:48):
Yeah, yeah, that's all like yeah, like we shot you know,
we shot all the stuff, all the lifestyle stuff and
like all that. We were on the farm for about
a week and then and then we shot all the
studio stuff another week.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
I love the wood fid bath.
Speaker 5 (42:03):
It's a nice thing, toasty little it's a toasty little spot.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah, no, that was awesome. I wonder how important it
is to you to have a place like that to go, especially,
I mean these days, you know, you're very very well known.
Is it nice to have a place like that to
come home, to be to feel grounded in?
Speaker 8 (42:23):
It's the best. There's nothing better.
Speaker 5 (42:26):
Like it really is lucky, Like we found a beautiful
farm in our hometown where me and my wife are from.
Speaker 8 (42:32):
And uh, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
Speaker 5 (42:36):
Like, we're very lucky to have found that house and
kind of found our forever home the first time.
Speaker 8 (42:42):
You know, it really is amazing.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
I love it. Just reminded me. I love the photo
of you too, when you're young, like you're reenacted it.
How old were you guys? Like high school sweethearts or something?
Speaker 8 (42:54):
Yeah, we went to Prome together.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Oh gorgeous. No, I love that photo. You don't know,
CARDI look like you've aged.
Speaker 8 (43:04):
Look.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
I love the beer it is such a great she
being hugely popular. Can you tell us a little bit
about how you got involved because you weren't initially in
the cast, is it correct?
Speaker 5 (43:14):
Uh yeah, like I think they already cast a bunch
of people. And then I was brother, was like a consultant,
and then grew into a producer and executive producer roles,
and then uh yeah, Chris was just like, Chris is
my friend, you know, Like I didn't have to audition,
like Chris just called me.
Speaker 8 (43:29):
It was just like, we want you to play this role.
I don't think it was going to be a big role.
Speaker 5 (43:32):
And then it turned into maybe, you know, it has
turned into a bigger role, and yeah, like Chris was
just like, can you act? And I was just like,
I don't know, I don't think so, but maybe. And
I was just like and that's honestly, like, I'm just
lucky that my friend called me.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
You know, did you feel uncomfortable? Was that uncomfortable? And
were working on sick going okay, hang on, what do
I do? How do I do this?
Speaker 5 (43:57):
The very first, the very first, like it's one of
those things where I was very comfortable working with the chefs,
working with the actors working.
Speaker 8 (44:05):
With all the departments making the show.
Speaker 5 (44:07):
Like that's like a collaborative creative thing that I'm used
to making restaurants and working with teams and it's amazing.
But then it's like, okay, now it's like you gotta
shoot your scene. I gotta go stand next to Jeremy
Allen White and talk about some friggin ballbreaker arcade game.
And I'm just like, oh man, it was crazy, Like
you're first time and they're like action. Then you're like wait,
(44:28):
and I started like laughing because I'm like, okay, action,
and then it's just like no, it's for everyone starts.
Everyone starts acting, and you're like what, Like we were just.
Speaker 8 (44:36):
Having to we're just outside hanging out, and like now
we're over here we're acting. I was like, what's going on?
You guys are crazy. But that's like it's amazing. It
really is.
Speaker 5 (44:46):
It's a cool thing to be able to do something
you've never done before and be surrounded by such professionals.
And they gave me the same kind of reciprocal I
was helping them do cooking stuff, they're helping me do
acting and really spend some time with me and really
got me to a really nice place.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I think, you know, absolutely, the show Oh kind of
gives you well. I'm king to hear your thoughts on this.
Just how realistic is it? Because it doesn't look like
the kind of environment that a lot of people would
like to work in. How close to reality is it
working in a kitchen like that.
Speaker 5 (45:21):
It all depends if you've got a jerk chep or not.
I think, like, once again, we're making a television show.
I think that we have somebody who has a lot
of emotional and mental damage. He's coming home to take
over his you know, his brother's restaurant, who's passed away
(45:42):
through something pretty violent and doesn't know how to deal
with anything. Doesn't know how like just being able to
cook well, like Carmie can Carmi can cook? Well, can
he truly lead? It doesn't seem so he's trying to
figure it out. I think there's a lot of people
around him that believe on him. I think there's a
lot of people that don't give up on him, and
(46:04):
I think he doesn't give up on them. And I
think they're all in this weird, you know, toxic little world.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
And I.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
Hope there's not a lot of restaurants like that, and
I you know, I didn't work in a lot. I
worked in like pretty intense restaurants, but you know, I
never worked in a restaurant where it was a family
owned business like that, you know where, and especially in
the circumstances that the Bear takes place. Once again, it
(46:35):
is a television show, and I think some of the
realities are real, and some of the things are about
a character who's been written for television.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
You have a host of restaurants yourself. I know that
you've got a lot going on the cookbook, merchandise lines, acting.
When it comes to the restaurants, of course, It's just
been such a difficult time for hospitality over the last
few years post COVID. How things were you A.
Speaker 5 (47:02):
You know, we're putting back to pieces, you know, we're
putting back to pieces. We're trying to give people a
beautiful experience and trying to make people feel welcomed and
feel part of something, and trying to be consistent with
the love and service that we give and the food
quality that.
Speaker 8 (47:21):
We put out into our restaurants.
Speaker 5 (47:23):
And I think we're in a really good place, to
be honest, you know, I'm very filled with gratitude of
our restaurants and the amount of people that are going
to them and our staff that are working as hard
as they are, and you know, I'm really I'm really
proud of our restaurants and what we're doing, and you
(47:44):
know a lot of them. Like before the pandemic, I
didn't have any restaurants, you know, and now I got
a couple, And it's an amazing thing.
Speaker 8 (47:53):
The pandemic birth my restaurants. I went. I couldn't do
anything else.
Speaker 5 (47:58):
I had to go back to just feeding people, and
it really sparked.
Speaker 8 (48:02):
My love of food and.
Speaker 5 (48:04):
My love like really like I was just like, no
matter what happens, I guess I can. I can go
to the end of my driveway and sell a sandwich
or sell some barbecue, and I can like provide for
my family. Like That's what it got to during the
pandemic where I had to do my barbecue pop up
and from there I opened Parts or from their Maddie's
(48:26):
Patties and Cafe rang and you know Prime Seafood Palace
and Rizos has a Palm and like all these restaurants
and it's just like I didn't have those. I didn't
they were birth from me finding my love of restaurants again.
And like you know, I was in a chef for
you know, almost seven years and then and then I
(48:46):
had to stay home for a while, and then I
had to figure out how to provide for my family.
And food gave me that opportunity. I can go out,
I can cook, and I can provide for my family.
Speaker 8 (48:56):
And that's what we did.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
The best guess from the Sunday session Great Jazz with
Francisca rutget One Radio pallid By News Talks.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
It'd be listening to Matty Matheson, actor from The Bear
and one of the few chefs who managed to create
a living out of HOSPO and COVID. How intimidating would
it be though, to be the only non actor on
set and have to perform in such an intense show.
It didn't seem to phase him at all. I'm not quote,
I'm not sure that i'd be quite so together opposite
(49:27):
Jeremy Allen White. Anyway, thank you for joining me on
this News Talks. There'd be podcast. Please feel free to
share these chats and if you like this podcast, make
sure you follow us on iHeartRadio or wherever you get
your podcasts, don't forget that we're releasing two new EPs
a week Mondays and Fridays throughout summer. I'll catch you
next time on Great Chats.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to news talks there'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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