June 26, 2025 • 45 mins
In this edition of Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, we hear from filmmaker Celine Song on her Hollywood hit, The Materialists starring Dakota Johnson, Pedro Pascal and Chris Evans.
Author AA Dhand talks his latest thriller, The Chemist. Francesca asks how his experiences with abuse, violence and overdoses while running a late hour pharmacy in the UK informed his writing.
And one of our top comedians, Chris Parker is on a nationwide tour. So he joined Francesca in studio talk New Zealand's ever-growing comedy scene.
Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin brings you the best interviews from Newstalk ZB's The Sunday Session.
Listen on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. The big names, the fascinating guests,
the thoughtful conversations, bringing you the best interviews from the
Sunday Session. This is Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, empowered
(00:27):
by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hello and welcome to Great Chats. I'm Francisca Rudkin, host
of the Sunday Session on News Talks ABB and in
this podcast, we picked some of our favorite feature interviews
from over the last month for you to enjoy. Coming up,
the hilarious Chris Parker joins me to talk about his
latest show, Stopping So Dramatic, and of course.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
He's totally dramatic.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I'm also joined by British author aa dand he writes
amazing thrillers. But he's also got this really fascinating backstories.
We're going to talk about that more later on First Up, though,
this month, I was really tough to get the opportunity
to speak to director Celene Song. I loved her debut
film Past Lives, that received two oscar I'm an including
Best Picture Seting. Second film is a rom com of suits,
(01:11):
about a matchmaker in New York. It's called Materialists, so
much to talk about. I start about asking with after
the success of Past Lives, did Hollywood come calling with
lots of offers for her second film?
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Well, I think that I already knew what I wanted
to do, because I actually, before Past Lives had its
beautiful Sundance premiere, I actually had already written Materialists. It's
a story that I've been wanting to tell for a
really long time. And there was a few months period
between when I finished Past Lives and when it came
(01:44):
out into the world at Sundance, and at that time,
I think that I wanted to write my next movie.
So it was really a story that came from the
time that I worked as a matchmaker for about six
months as a day job back in my twenties, and
ever since then, I always knew it was going to
be something that I make something about, so I spent
(02:04):
that I used that opportunity to write a script for Materialists.
So the whole time I was making I was releasing
Past Life. The whole time I was releasing Past Lives, I.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Knew that my next movie was going to be materialless
is that quite frustrating because because you know, when you
release the film, when it's a success, is just like
Past Lives was, It takes up a lot of your time,
doesn't it. It can take years of your life when
you're quite keen to just crack on to the next one.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Well, I feel like that desires of course there, but
you have to watch the life of this movie through.
And I think that because it was my debut film,
I had so much interest and energy in learning what
a life cycle of the movie was. So I feel
like I really enjoyed giving the whole thing, giving my
(02:52):
everything to you know, my very first movie. And I
think I've really learned a lot from that. And I
do think that I really did maybe a better filmmaker
too in a way, because it's just like, I don't know,
it's like you just learn a lot meeting your audience.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
You know, I'm fascinated by the six months that you
spent as a matchmaker. How did that come about?
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Well, I was a playwright for about ten years. And
the thing about our living in New York City, and
I think that this is probably relatable for so many
of us. But in New York City, the rent is
very high, and it is really hard to be a
freelance artist, and especially experienced artists in theater, and tried
(03:36):
to pay rent. So I needed a day job. And
the thing about you know, New York City is that
because the city of dreams full of really ambitious, wonderful people,
that the day job market is very competitive. So I
couldn't really get a day job. Like I tried to
get a day job as a barrista, and then I
(03:56):
learned that every brista job needed ten years of brista experience.
So I was just in a situation, unfortunately, where I
was getting a little bit desperate for a day job,
and I met somebody at a party who was working
as a matchmaker, and then I got really interested in it,
and I just like interviewed for the job and got it,
got trained, and I got to work. And I only
(04:19):
worked for about six months. So but you know, I
think I learned more in those six months than I
did any other part.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Of my life.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Were you good at it?
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Well, I mean I feel like I didn't do again,
I didn't do it for so long. I feel like
so much of just like any job, I would say,
so much of the job is the consistency like you
have to be you have to stick to it. You know,
you can't be good at it after having done it
for so short a time. You have to kind of
like grow and improve in it. But the reason why
I quit is because it was, honestly because the job
(04:51):
was too fun. My day job ended up being too fun,
I know. And it's because it's so fascinating because all
these strangers toward your clients, they just tell you what's
in their heart. They tell you what's in their heart
in a way that I would say that they wouldn't
even really share with their therapist, right because it is just.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
Such a thing that is connected to one's desire and
the more sacred of all love, the feelings of I
want to be loved, I want to love so because
it is about it is a business when it comes
to that, right, I mean dating as an industry.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
That I think that I just learned so much about
what's in people's hearts.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
And we see that in the film. There's a moment
when Lucy, you know, asks one of her clients just
that she's about to get married and she's got cold feet,
you know, deep down, tell me, tell me what you're
not going to tell anybody else, why do you what
is the reason why you want to get married? So
what an amazing experience and what else did you learn
about people from your time in that role?
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Well, I think that the main thing is that often
what we are face with, right is the way that
I think that we want to feel very valuable in
the world. And I think this is something that comes
from a whole lifetime of being commodified and and objectified.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Right.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
It's kind of like, you know, there's a line in
my film that goes, I'm not merchandised, I'm a person.
And to me, it's feel much about how the modern world,
the way that the internet works, the way that we're
asked to sort of like uh, you know, show everybody
or our photos and be seen. And also like there's
(06:41):
a very literal dating market on your phone, just like
you know, anything from tender to you know, bumble or whatever.
So much of those things are happening because and so
many of those things are resulting in all of us
starting to see ourselves as a bit of merchandise. And
I think that what I really was interested in with
(07:02):
this movie is how in a world where we're being
out to treat ourselves as merchandise, and that we should
try to improve our value right and become a more
valuable person. How in the middle of that we're able
to find this really ancient mystery and this ancient feeling
which is love, This thing that is famously not quantifiable.
(07:25):
It's famously something that is invisible and immaterial and just
something that remains a mystery to this day. And I
think that you know something that I think about. It's like, well,
merchandise cannot love another merchandise, but a person can love
another person. So how do we in this world where
we are being asked to be asked to live like
(07:47):
we're being asked to live like merchandise, how we still
remain being a person, And how do we actually still
believe in true love?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
How could we do that?
Speaker 4 (07:57):
It's sometimes when I talk about true love, I'm always like,
I sound like I think, I sound like I'm saying,
let's believe in Santa Claus. Right. It feels so different
call in the world where that's increasingly feeling very cynical,
where we're trying to turn everything into algorithms. I think
that it's so hard to still say yeah, But there
is this thing true off that I think that is
(08:21):
possible between people, and I always find it to be
sometimes met with such cynicism, but I can't help it.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
I believe in it.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
You know what I love about this film is you
explore so much. You explore personal expectations, social norms. You know,
marriage is a business deal, this idea of settling for
someone that you might think, you know isn't worthy of you,
and even just talking as you say, about what soeulth
Worth is and things, and about the mass and about
(08:55):
you know, love. And I think this is the kind
of film that people are going to head along to
and they're going to be entertained, but they're also going
to leave with a whole lot of other stuff to
talk about. Have you found that the film has just
opened up all these conversations?
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Yes, I think that, you know, like the most common
thing that I've heard even so far, And I feel
like as the movie comes out all around the world,
I'm going to keep hearing it, which is that we
haven't stopped talking about it since. So I think some
of it is going to be about opening up a
new ways of talking about ourselves and the way we
(09:31):
love and the what we believe about love. And it
doesn't mean that everybody's going to agree or it's going
to feel one way, but it's still going to mean
that we're going to get to talk about it. I'm
going to get to talk about it deeply. And I
just feel like there are so few there are so
few venues. There's so few venues where we get to
talk about our feelings. Right, There's actually so few places
(09:54):
where we are able to talk about what we believe
when it comes to love and life, right, And I
think that maybe it's going to be such a special
thing that you can come. I don't see this movie,
sit in the movie theater for a couple hours, and
then when you walk out of it, you're going to
start a conversation that's going to help you, that's going
(10:19):
to make you learn something about yourself or each other, right,
hopefully both right.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Absolutely, And as somebody who has watched a lot of
romantic comedies and romantic dramas over the years, what I
really loved is that you take the genre seriously, you
give it, you know you kind of I found it
really refreshing that there was all this there was so
much more depth this film that I maybe anticipated I
should have after see in past lives, but I kind
(10:46):
of just been I love the fact that you're actually
this isn't just sort of a throwaway pretty flick that's
selling me a fantasy. It's actually questioning the fantasy as well.
Speaker 6 (10:57):
Of course, why I feel like the thing is like
I think the genre is often not given enough respect, right, because,
which I think is really unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Because I think.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
About this in terms of what we call romance films
as chick flix, right, and people say, well, there is
a chick flick, it's not a serious movie. I think
about this as very sad in a couple of ways.
I think in one way, that's saying that chick flicks
are not serious. You're saying that chicks are not serious.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
People, right.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
And on the other hand, the other way that this
is sad is that you're saying that, well, for serious people,
the matters of the heart, and then the way that
we are asked to love in the modern world, the
way that our heart moves is not it should not
be of your interest. And why shouldn't serious people be
robbed of talking about this very universal theme, this thing
(11:52):
that is a mystery and a drama that haunts all
of us. You know, not all of us know what
it's like to say the world, but I think that
all of us do know this thing. And no matter
how ordinary you are, this is the one great drama
that is in your life. You can do this very extraordinary,
(12:13):
very brave thing, which is to love someone and to
be loved, which is when it happens, a complete miracle.
And of course the movie is always talking about it
as an incredible miracle when it happens, and the only
thing you can do when you're offered it is to
say yes.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I read that when you write a script and you
write characters, you don't have an actor in mind. You
don't write for a particular person. I thought that was
interesting because I really felt like you and the code
were on the same page here. I felt like you'd
written this for her.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Yeah, I know. Well, I think that that's sort of
how it feels like the cast. I mean, I think
that casting is a matchmaking process. And I would always
talk to my casting directors. That thought I was always
talked to them is if they are matchmakers, right, because
I have the characters on the page that I have
created in words, and then you go out into the
(13:07):
world in search of the soulmate the way that a
matchmaker would. So you're going out there and you're just
kind of and I wish that it was something like
that you could use math for, but the truth is
that you actually go out into the world and then
you actually get to experience it as an inspiration as
if it's love, right, and I have to fall in
(13:29):
love with the idea of them as characters. And when
it comes to Dakota, I'm so glad you point that out,
because that was it was so clear when it came
to Dakota. Like when I met Dakota, it was just
a general meeting. We were just hanging out. We just
came to know each other as people. And then it
was incredible because he then she and I I don't believe. Sorry,
I don't believe in love at first sight, but I
(13:50):
believe in love at first conversation. So I was just
in you know, in conversation with her, and I fell
in love with the idea of her as Lucy. It
felt like I was sitting there with Lucy and before
she got up from lunch lunch to go home, and
I was sitting there but before I got up, I
texted H four and my producers and said, I think
(14:13):
that I found there, Lucy. That's how clear it is,
just like love. Just like love, when it happens, it's
so obvious. So that's how inevitable it felt with the Koda,
And I think that it also extended then, of course,
because she was the first one to be tasked because
she's she's the movie. She's the one who has to
build the rest. And then I think that I met
(14:36):
Chris and I've known Petro, and for both of them,
it really again was about falling in love with them.
It's about falling into, you know, a person to a person,
feeling for it and something that of course, you know
the line that I was saying, the important line in
my movie, not merchandise. I'm a person. I think all
(14:59):
actors understand this, but of course my three actors really
understand this because they've all been treated as merchandise before.
So I think that so much of it is about
also falling in love.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
With the people. Right.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
It's like, maybe you won't think that it's obvious that
Chris Evans, as a merchandise would be right for the
role of John, but when you meet Chris the person,
it is so obvious, you know, if you meet Chris
as a as a guy, you just go, oh my god,
he's a John and he's perfect and he's actually born
for it, you know, And I think that's what's really been.
(15:34):
So that's what I really love aboadcasting. It's like you're
just falling in love with the right.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
People finally selling you know, past lives and as you've
just been talking about, materialists draw on your own personal experience.
Is that something that we're going to see sort of
continue with the films that you make. Does it make
sense to you to be inspired by your own life experience?
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Well, I feel like, you know, I think, don't matter
what I do, I know that it's going to be
in some way a thing that I've given myself too. Right,
So I think it more like what's in this situation.
I feel like so much of it it was and
is inspired by the things that you know that I've felt, right.
But I think that no matter what I do, and
(16:19):
even the parts of Past Lives or Materialists that are
not directly from my experience, even those things still have
to pull from my humanity, right, It has to still
come from how I am as a person and how
I am as a human being. So in that way,
it's always going to have a piece of me in it,
in a very deep, in a pretty philosophical way, like
(16:43):
I think Materialists, you know, like it's still a story
about Lucy, who is not me, but still it's gonna
have throughout the DNA of what I believe about love
and life. Right, it's going to fully have what I
know about the world and what I believe. Right, it's
(17:04):
gonna be pretty clear about what I think about loven late.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
The biggest names from the Sunday session Great chats with
Francheska Rudkin on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks at b That.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Was Celene's song talking about her latest film, Materialists. If
you've seen the film, then you'll know it's all about
a matchmaker. I wasn't expecting Selene to say that she
had worked as a matchmaker. Also, like the way she's
standing up for the rom com or romantic dramas. They
don't need to be dumbed down for make Flix, do they.
I like the way she nails modern dating in the film.
(17:39):
It's worth ching out. If you haven't seen it. Already right.
Next up with the fascinating story of AA Darnt. In
a previous career, crime writer, AA Darnd dealt with a
lot running his one hundred hour pharmacy in Bradford overdos's
violence abuse you know him. He was surrounded by drugs,
drug dealers and he got a good insight into the
lives of addicts. This experience has inspired his new book
(18:03):
called The Chemist. And we started off by talking about
the importance of good twists and thrillers. I asked him
whether this was the key to writing a good thriller.
Speaker 7 (18:13):
I think, I think it's really statisfying when you take
you lead the audience down the garden path and all
the time they were in the completely wrong place altogether.
So I really enjoy that element of surprise. It's really
satisfying for me as a writer to fool the audience.
And also, I think for the audience, I love the
fact that they'll be reading it and they'll be like,
oh my god, how did he do that to us?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
So yeah, it's really enjoyable for me.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
The line in the publicity release reads, he knows how
to save you and he knows how to kill you.
The pharmacist is a great main character for a book
like this, with that path that they hold. Were you
very aware of that concept and its potential for a
novel back when you owned a pharmacy.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (18:54):
I kind of wrote it as Dexter meets Breaking Bad.
And the idea came to me because I was at
my pharmacy and I'd seen a very unfortunate sur drug
gill go wrong, and somebody had died outside my pharmacy.
They've been murdered, and the whole area was on lockdown
and the police were there in helicopters, and I closed
my pharmacy and I was kind of retreating into the
(19:15):
dispensary in the dark, and I was I was thinking, God,
if a drug dealer walks into my pharmacy and threatened
me to supply drugs to all of my methodone addicts,
that would be.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
A really bad position to be in.
Speaker 7 (19:28):
And I thought, how would I get out of that
if the lives of my family was on the line.
And I'm walking around the dispensary and I remember I
wasn't the ambient lighting was on, just the emergency of
perimeter lights, and I'm.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Looking at all the medication bays.
Speaker 7 (19:41):
But this time, I've become the chemist, and I'm looking
at the medications now and weaponizing them and thinking, how
could I use medication which has always been designed for
good to do bad to take down a drug dealer,
and dexter meets breaking Bad was born.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
I suddenly started.
Speaker 7 (19:59):
To realize all the medications I've got side effects, They've
all got interactions.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
And that line just came to me.
Speaker 7 (20:05):
You know, the only different between a medication and a
poison is the dose. And the novel was born.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Within the book We The setting is kind of near
this council housing area called the Mews. Did you work
in an area near a council housing area like this?
What was it like where your pharmacy was.
Speaker 7 (20:28):
Yeah, there was an area which I have made into
the Mews in the book of the Dystopian World, where
drug addicts, people on probation and the legal immigrants live.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
And I looked after an.
Speaker 7 (20:38):
Area like this in Leeds and I remember having to
go there, wanted to do a welfare check on somebody
who was really concerned about who I'd arrived from their
daily medication. There were a blue script of mine in England,
methadonias prescribed on blue prescriptions, hence I referred to as
blue scripts. And I remember going to the state thinking
I really don't want to go onto this estate because it's.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
A bit dangerous, it's a bit dodgy.
Speaker 7 (20:59):
But I got out of my car and all my
blue scripts were there, and they were like, hey, the
Chemist is here, because they affectionately always referred to me
as the chemist. And they're like, what's the chemist doing here?
And I was like, lads, I need to go and
do a welfare check on this address, and but I
know worries man will escort you.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
And I'm walking through this area and everybody's looking at
me and going, hey, the chemist is here.
Speaker 7 (21:17):
And I suddenly realized that I've got access because of
my job, because of the trust they have in me,
because they see me every single day for methodown, you know,
three hundred and sixty five days of the year. I've
got trust and I've got equity. And they escorted me
through the estate. Nobody said anything to me, and again
I just realized that actually, my job as a pharmacist
(21:38):
has given me privileged access to worlds that nobody else
could see.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
And you felt protected, then, not threatened.
Speaker 7 (21:45):
I felt totally protected and when we went to the
address that I needed to go to and they're like,
am it do you want to help you break the
door down? And I was like, lads, you're all on probation,
so if you break this door down with me, you're
going to get into trouble. And I found the police
and we did a welfare check on this lady who
had unfortunately passed away. And I knew she passed away
because she arrived at my pharmacy every single morning for
specific medication for two years. Arrived every day and then
(22:07):
she didn't arrive one day. And you always get worried
on that because any change in routine is a red flag.
And I cannot tell you I didn't feel in danger
at all. I felt empowered almost. I was like, God, I.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Really am the chemist. And it was just a moment where,
you know, the novel really came to life.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
And of course the Blue scripts and the myth and
own patients play a large part in this boog. Do
people understand your role in their care and how dangerous
it can be?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yeah, they do.
Speaker 7 (22:38):
It's it's quite amazing that you know, the blue scripts
when they come in, that.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
They understand this world.
Speaker 7 (22:45):
And I always have a really frank conversation with them
about when they come into the pharmacy, which is, you know,
I'm going to treat you like I treat any other patient.
So you'll wait in line for your prescriptions, and I
will supervise you in a very professional manner, and I
won't treat you like a tertiary person.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Sometimes they get treated like that.
Speaker 7 (23:02):
So I think I had I had access and privilege
because I've always treated people with respect, especially in my
Blue Scripts, because I see the person behind what you
what other people would just see as the addicts. You think, oh,
there's an addict, and there's a very sort of hostile,
cliched view of what addicts should be on my tib
steals and my criminal record. Whereas I get to know,
(23:23):
you know, John Frank, Peter Luke, the person behind the
blue script, the person behind the addiction, the person who's.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Got a family.
Speaker 7 (23:29):
It's got a wife, who's got kids, who's had hardship
in life. It humanizes them and there's this lovely relationship
that is born because again the Blue Scripts see me
every single day.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
So if you think.
Speaker 7 (23:40):
About it, how many, how many, how many roles in
life where you will see a healthcare professional every single day.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
It's very rare. It's a very unique relationship that is born.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And I hadn't thought about that. I hadn't thought about
your roles. Is a lot more than just providing them
with a medication. As you say, you are that person
that knows whether they're are turning out there taking it,
whether they're okay, whether they're not. You know, you're probably
the the one and only person for a lot of
these people who know whether they're okay. There's quite a
lot of responsibility, isn't it beyond just dishing out some drugs?
Speaker 7 (24:13):
It is, and I took it really seriously and I
wanted to get to know them. You know, I would
always say good morning to them. I would always say
do you want a cup of tea? You know, if
sometimes you could just know, if you say good morning
to somebody every single day, you know, on day fifty
seven they say good morning in a slightly different way,
you know something's wrong. So I'd be like, look, you know,
do you want a cup of tea? Do you want
to chat? I always used to say, you know, nobody
(24:34):
should go hungry in this world, and you know, so
if my blue ships were hungry, or they wanted a
cup of coffee and they wanted.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
A piece of TOASTU listen to just take a set,
I'll sort you out.
Speaker 7 (24:42):
So I always took care of them, and I was
very aware that this interaction that they're having, which is
a routine, regular one, there's so much more that I
can mind from it. Rather than just being the person
that hands them some green liquid, I'm the person that
they can be. Therefore when they need help, I'm the
person that can be Therefore, when they need a shoulder
to cry on, I'm the person there when they just
(25:02):
need an ear to, you know, someone to listen to them.
You wouldn't believe how much equid that gives you as
a healthcare professional. So that when I go into areas
like the Muse and they say, what's the chemist doing here?
Speaker 3 (25:13):
What do you need now?
Speaker 7 (25:14):
And that's the difference you see in that moment when
I walked into that estate, they wanted to repay those
favors for me, have given them mendalist cups of tea
or a piece of toast, or just the fact that
I would say good morning to them every day and
try them with respect.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
The chemist is here. What can we do for you?
So you know, it's a really really.
Speaker 7 (25:29):
Fantastic relationship that I managed to form with my Blue
scripts over twenty years.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Do recovering ericts get the best key that they can
in the UK? Does the system work?
Speaker 3 (25:39):
No, they don't.
Speaker 7 (25:40):
Unfortunately, it's a very cost effective system of healthcare. And
by that what I mean is we simply substituting one
addiction for a cheaper version of of addiction. You know,
I've done my job for twenty two years and I've
seen one person in that time come off of methadone.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
And the point is the.
Speaker 7 (25:58):
Methodone gives them stability in terms of that it's going
to fix their opioid deficit and give.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Them a bridge. Wish there was more we could do.
Speaker 7 (26:07):
I think addiction services in the UK and in fact
globally as some of the poorest funded areas of healthcare
that we have. It's really tragic and a lot more
needs to be done to rectify that.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
The chemist in the book Edrith Can He is a
really intriguing and rich protagonist. I feel like there is
so much more to learn about him.
Speaker 7 (26:28):
Yeah, and for me it was like, okay, I've written
you know, the Verdie.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Novels with Dco Harry Verdi and a lot of novels.
Speaker 7 (26:34):
You know, you can see a detective and then there's
a bad guy, and there's a very formulaic way of
writing those books. But this in their community pharmacy, you know,
for me, it was really fascinating, really exciting to go
in there because again, I'm weaponizing the drugs.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
I'm the expert who knows.
Speaker 7 (26:47):
And in fact, you know, I take out one of
the bad guys using your medication that everybody will have
at home in their medicine drawer, medicine you can buy
from your corner shop, from your petrol station. It's not
always about the big sexy heroine oxycontins of this world.
The fact is every single medication in the right hands
could be deadly. So it was really amazing for me
to take viewers into the pharmacy world that they probably
have never seen before because it just can't is that
(27:10):
person that will go with that extra mile. He's in
a relationship where so his ex wife is on methadone
a very small dose, and she's really on that because
she just wants to see him every day.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
There's this unrequited love story and.
Speaker 7 (27:21):
She gets herself into a really bad situation with a
drug dealer, and it just has to intervene. And again,
how far would you go for somebody that you love?
How far would you go to protect those around you?
How far would you go to save your own lives?
And then you realize that the Chemist is just can't
because he's got this access to this world of the Muse,
because there's trust there.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
He becomes a really dangerous character.
Speaker 7 (27:43):
And everybody underestimates him up their peril because, as they
say in the book, but he's just a chemist.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Yeah, but he's so much more than that.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I don't want to talk, you know, I don't want
to say word about the unpredictable ending. But you hate
to seat yourself up beautifully for a seke Well, I'm
presuming this is going to be a series.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Yeah, I'm writing. I'm on writing the Secret at the moment. Yea, absolutely.
I like to get into the world.
Speaker 7 (28:07):
I like to set it up with the first novel
and really introduced readers to the world I haven't seen before.
I do it in a sort of hopefully a dynamic, exciting,
sort of pacey way, because like I said, you know,
the best is yet to come. You know, I've set
up at Addriss for Anarchy at the end of this book,
so it'd really interesting to see where I take him
in the next book.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Did you always want to be a writer? How did
you end up being a pharmacist?
Speaker 3 (28:29):
You know, I was.
Speaker 7 (28:30):
I was brought up in a in a white working
class of state in Bradford, and parents had a corner shop,
and I kind of did the South Asian thing of
you know, going to university and trying to get the
best job that I could get to ensure that I
could lift my family and myself out out of you know,
sort of relative poverty, to be honest. So I did
the tried and tested formula of you know, who around
me is doing well, and I had some family friends
(28:52):
that pharmacists, and it's like a good stable career. I'd
also been raised in customer service in a corner shop.
I'd always been in a retail environment, so it felt
like a natural fit. And I wanted to be a pharmacist.
But obviously I had this hobby and this passion of
reading thriller as I was reading Stephen and Thomas Harris
way before I should have been you know, probably ten
eleven years old, I was reading them. So when I
qualified as a pharmacist, it was really just a hobby
(29:13):
that became something. You know, I was writing a novel
I started in two thousand and six to be ten
years to get published one point one million unsuccessful words.
But it was just a passion that I had, you know,
a side hustle that ended up becoming a full time job.
So it was the hobby that basically became my full
time gig.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
I love the way. You know how many unpublished works
they were two thy fifteen, you became the first South
Asian writer to get a publishing deal in the UK.
Others have followed since you're also bringing the you know,
your people to life in your books and now in
TV adaptations as well. How important is that for you
to have that representation in both characters and writers.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yeah, it's really important.
Speaker 7 (29:55):
So I aspired to live in a world where we
don't fetishize representation anymore. It's not like, oh, yeah, who's
the South Asian person we can go to. I want
it to be so normalized that there are lots of
South Asian writers. There are lots of South Aga in
TV shows. Obviously, when I first started, I did hear
a lot, but you know, sav Agians don't write crime.
They write wonderful literary works of fiction that when man
book apprizes, or they write about range of marriages or terrorism.
(30:16):
Because there wasn't a single commercial crime fiction writer out there,
which is probably why it took me ten years, and
I had a lot of rejections along the way, but
I was like, well, at some point we're going to
change this narrative, I'd like to be the one to
do it. And the same with the TV adaptation that
took seven years. For verdie it was like, well, we've've
seen South Asians on TV and comedic roles are very
cliche ridden worlds. Where's the cool Maverick, where's the Bruce
(30:38):
Wullism die Hard, Where's that kind of gung ho sort
of character that's going to break all the rules. So
I think representation is really important, But like I said,
it has to be something that isn't fetishized. It has
to be something that's just so routine and so mundane
that nobody talked about representations representation anymore because it's so
normal and so routine.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Bringing you the best interviews from the Sunday Session Great
Jets with Francesca Rudgin on iHeartRadio Empowered by News Talks.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
It be that was aa Darnt. You may read his
di Harry Verdie novels. They've been turned into a major
BBC TV drammer. Now I reckon that this book is
going to be perfect for a TV series as well.
But we were talking about the new book, which is
called The Chemist. I did know that he was a
pharmacist turned writer, and I knew that it was the
(31:26):
inspiration behind the book, but I wasn't quite aware of
just how much it inspired the book. He kind of
really is this character The Chemist. Anyway, if you're looking
for a page turner with a maverick hero, I can
recommend the book. And he told me that the sequel
will be out next year next Chris Parker, This man
review is hilarious. He popped in during the tour of
(31:47):
his show Stopping So Dramatic, and we started off by
talking about the latest addition to his family. Her name
is Margot Darling Parker McCabe. She's a rescue pup and
I asked how it was going. Was everyone adjusting well?
Speaker 8 (32:02):
She's adjusting well. I on the other hand, you know,
it's a big shift just lived. I think, you know,
if you look at sort of a same sex relationship
marriage on paper, it's a pretty easy go in life,
you know, despite some maybe like global pushback in terms
of our own lifestyle, it's just so nice, you know,
we had there's sort of no obstacle there was. It
(32:24):
was just like you'd wake up and whatever time you wanted,
and like we had no obligations. It was just like
one house plant that we sort of tried to keep alive.
And then we just thought, well, let's go and ruin
this all like highly like high needs dog that you know,
she's so precious. But it just it's a lot, I mean,
(32:44):
and everyone tells you it's a lot of work, and
you're like, I know, and then you see everyone at
these cafes and out on walks and you're like, so
it's a lot of work, but there's a lot of
this too. And then every dog just has their own
specific personality traits and Margo has hers. But we're getting there.
We've got a trainer, he's training us. He told me
I was a good boy.
Speaker 9 (33:05):
The other day.
Speaker 8 (33:06):
It gave me a pat I almost said it at
his feet, so did my belly asked for a rub.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
So everyone told you it was going to be hard work,
but you're still surprised it's as much hard work as
it is.
Speaker 9 (33:18):
Isn't that like true of life, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Really?
Speaker 8 (33:21):
I think that's what I'm beginning to understand. It's like,
you know, there's all these choices you can make beit
have children or have a dog, or buy a house,
or move away from your family and friends and try
it in a new city or something, and everyone goes, oh,
it's really hard, and you think, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally,
but you don't actually hear that, and you're, yeah, I
understand that's hard conceptually, and then you make the choice
(33:43):
to do it yourself, and you think, oh my gosh,
they were right, this is so hard.
Speaker 9 (33:47):
Why did no one tell me?
Speaker 8 (33:48):
Like everyone was telling you, you just weren't listening, or
you thought you would be an exception.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I think it's the way it can get pitched to
you at times. So I had two kids and then
we thought I really wanted to get a puppy, and
everybody who has kids and a dog said, it is
your third child. It is a third child, And that
just isonated since we never got the puppy.
Speaker 9 (34:09):
I mean, so you listened.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
It was just a way that I was like, well,
I'm not even a third child, so why would I
get a third child?
Speaker 8 (34:15):
You know, I would say, though, like we do love it,
and I'm being like, you know, obviously like a bit
giby about it all, like, but she is a true
pleasure and she's you know, his parents say she's actually
the greater educator. She is teaching us.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
So it's so mature. I heard, and I don't know
if I don't know if you're joking or not that
sometimes you leave your own podcast at home so she
doesn't get lonely.
Speaker 9 (34:40):
Oh no, we are definitely doing that.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
So you have tuned into a parent. You are parenting this.
Speaker 9 (34:46):
You have to.
Speaker 8 (34:47):
So basically, you take her out for a walk and
she sees another dog while on her leaseh and she
just goes crazy. And then if you leave her home
alone for like an even like five ten minutes, she'll
go crazy again. And so we're just we're working through it,
and we're not like because everyone wants to give advice,
don't they. And this is what I think my parent
talking about it. But you can't. Here's the thing, as
(35:09):
a dog owner, you can't compare your struggles to parents.
They don't want to They don't want to hear that
at all. I don't hear it at all. So you
have to just find childless, gaze with high needs dogs,
and that's your community.
Speaker 9 (35:23):
That's who you talk to.
Speaker 8 (35:24):
Because as soon as you go, oh yeah, you had
to sleep this night and tell me about it. My
dog was barking at helicopters, they go, no, you don't understand,
and I don't want to hear this.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
So you're two dates into your nine date tour New Zealand.
So how's that separation going?
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Is it all right?
Speaker 8 (35:43):
It's pretty good. We're doing weekends away. Margo and I
did Todunga together because my brother lives there. So she's
you know, we had a whole system set up, babysitters,
all that kind of thing.
Speaker 9 (35:54):
Or she's actually I should say she's not. She is
a three year.
Speaker 8 (35:57):
Old dog, so she's actually like a thirty five year
old woman and dog is living with us, so she
was adult sat by my brother while we did the show.
Speaker 9 (36:07):
I love touring New Zealands.
Speaker 8 (36:09):
I love getting around the country and it's because it's like,
what my fourth or fifth tour, annual tour, I've got
my favorite little spot. So I just really enjoy, you know,
popping back in and Hi, I'm back on the road again.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Are we quite different in different places? Where is this
sort of the comedy sensibility really the same across keewis?
Speaker 8 (36:33):
Gosh, imagine if the answer was like, yes, so different
to you know, but I truly as boring as the
answer is like, no, I think we're the same. I
think as well, we are the same internationally, you know,
maybe a little reserved, but I don't. I mean, New
zeal audiences are sort of no one in the comedy
community for being a bit tough because we're quite reserved people.
(36:55):
We don't like to sort of be seen laughing as well.
But I like to be like, well, I've never.
Speaker 9 (37:00):
Heard that.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I've got a problem over here.
Speaker 9 (37:04):
There's been pretty loud of my audience. They.
Speaker 8 (37:09):
I think that's what I find quite encouraging those because
I think we just still have this weird mentality sometimes.
Speaker 9 (37:16):
Of like oh, we're just like little old Kiwason. No
one knows about us, and we're just a team of
five million and at the part of the world.
Speaker 8 (37:22):
And then I'm like, oh no, we're like our sensibility
what we can laugh at as just as you know,
advanced and as complicated and as robust as any kind
of like international audience who might be seeing like comments
at the top of their game. So I'm like, we,
you know, we it's just people, you know, That's what
(37:43):
I just think.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Hugely successful New Zealand comedians have a massive in Australia.
I mean, you're taking off to Edinburgh and London as
well this year with this tour and hugely well known
and well received in these places.
Speaker 8 (38:00):
I know. I mean, but again, I'm like, when do
we stop acting surprised about this?
Speaker 9 (38:05):
You know?
Speaker 8 (38:05):
When you true, when do we start going oh no,
it's always been this way and we've always known that
we're crack up, but we just.
Speaker 9 (38:11):
Love to be like who us, you know.
Speaker 8 (38:14):
I'm like, I think about us on a sort of
global scale in terms of our industry, our entertainment industry
even broadly, you know, like, lord, who you know came
from this country is a like international like most talked
about pop star of the year, You've got like in
terms of choreography and my Paris global is like top
(38:34):
of her game. Comedy directors you think about, like Tiger,
I'm like, when's it? What's it going to take for
us to realize that these these aren't miracles?
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Absolutely that one off.
Speaker 8 (38:44):
This is the fabric of our country that we create
incredible talent.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Oh, you're right, you're right, You're absolutely right. Well, we're
not very good. I think we're getting better at celebrating success.
Speaker 8 (38:56):
Makes you think we should invest more in the arts.
Just a little just thinking about that, I know, Yeah,
it's success.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, stop being so dramatic. Is that a title? It
seemed at you or society as a whole.
Speaker 8 (39:10):
It's aimed at me specifically. I've heard that my whole life.
You know, I am a rude What was sort of
noen and my family dining table was that I would
at dinner sort of stand up and storm out late
because my siblings have been driving at me from the
other side. And you know, growing up with siblings is
just like a very specific type of mental torture, isn't it,
(39:33):
Because they just know your weaknesses and they and they'll
push them, and they are brilliant at it, and then
somehow get away purely totally innocent, and then I would
storm out and then I'd give myself that ten minutes
to call down Mom. Would the old stop being so dramatic, Chris,
I'll come back in and I'd say, fine, I.
Speaker 9 (39:50):
Liked my dessert.
Speaker 8 (39:55):
Afterpart of nothing as well, Like I just sort of
come back in because I was hungry. So I've always
sort of reacted strongly to things, been a very passionate person,
and this sh is a like a reclamation of that,
of that side of myself. I think passion is a
(40:15):
good thing, and I think passion in this world now
is an amazing thing. So I just think people want
us to be less passionate because it's easier to control
us and get us in line. And there are certain
parts of my stuff from I don't want to get
in that line, you know. So I think I'm just
about holding on to my voltage, you know. That's what
(40:36):
this show's about.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
The show got great reviews at the Melbourne Comedy Festival,
and one review said Parker plows through anxiety inducing anecdotes
in an earnest attempt to undermine the power of cringe,
and I love that. I don't know if that's it,
that's it? Why are we so afraid of cringe? Why
do we kind of.
Speaker 8 (40:55):
Well, I mean, as a millennial, I found cringe to like,
you know, if that word got like thrown around the playground,
it was like a death sentence in a way. You're
so cringe you couldn't kind of come back from that.
It was almost like the worst thing you ever hear
in your life. I think number one is when your
sister's friends were over, your older sister's friends, and you're
kind of running around and doing a show for them,
(41:17):
and then you hear from the other side of the lounge,
cress stop showing off, and you cannot come back from that,
and I think, yeah, you're kind of cringe.
Speaker 9 (41:27):
Is another one.
Speaker 8 (41:28):
It's like it's quite hard for people to see you
in a new light when you're labeled as cringe. I, however, think,
you know, a cringe is just like another way of
being like pull back, reduce yourself.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
And in it yourself, you know exactly.
Speaker 8 (41:47):
Because I don't like necessarily like what I or it
doesn't like align with how I see or you know,
it's like it's so I.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Just need to take ourselves a little less seriously.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
Exactly, and just you know, and just.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Sometimes it's okay if you know.
Speaker 9 (42:02):
And so I do think.
Speaker 8 (42:03):
Yeah, I mean, that's what the show examines, is that
potentially cring. It was after one quite big night I
had out partying that I thought maybe cringe is the
tool of the oppressor. And look that's quite a dramatic statement.
But then it's in the title, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Absolutely okay. So you've already toured this through Australia that's
been hugely successful. You're doing New Zealand, as I mentioned,
you're then after London and Edinburgh. Is that generally the
cycle of a comedian and you come up with the
show and you tool that one for is it generally
about a year?
Speaker 8 (42:38):
There's a couple of like yeah, sort of yeah, ideally
do you think about it. I'm really starting to be like, oh,
I'm a business, which my dad has been like shaking
into me, you know, like this is job.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
So it's like it's quite good at it and it's
gone quite well money. Oh this is a job.
Speaker 9 (43:00):
So yeah.
Speaker 8 (43:01):
But it starts as this passion of yours, this I
just vocation, and then suddenly it becomes a big operation
and so yeah, you spend the top half of the
year sort of getting well first couple of months of
the year, getting that show into shape, and the latter
half of this year, I'll start developing new material. It's
a hamster wheel, so you start building up that new material,
(43:24):
you trial out at small shows, work in progresses. You're
basically bombing in front of the audience trying to find
out what's working. Because that's the hard thing about our
job is that we work it out in front of people.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Because Margo's not going to tell you where no, she.
Speaker 8 (43:39):
Just loves me no matter what. She has such an
unreliable audience. And then you know, you sort of edit
what you've got and try and get it into an
hour and then you just want to tour it so
much because it's taken so much work and so much
like dying out in front of an audience to get
it to a good shape, that you want to make
the most of it.
Speaker 9 (43:58):
And so.
Speaker 8 (44:00):
Australia is the first leg and people do the Adelaide
Fringe and then they do Melbourne Comedy Fistile that's a
huge festival that's a month, Sydney, Brisbane, Perth, and then
that'll lead you into edit on New Zealand International Comedy
festival into Edinburgh, and then you sort of might tour
you know, UK for a bat and then you'll be
(44:20):
so tired you never want to say what you've.
Speaker 9 (44:22):
Ever readden again.
Speaker 8 (44:23):
You're so over it, you're cringing at yourself ironically, and
then you'll be done with it and you start again,
and it's just that you just don't ever seem to
get off of the wheel.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
The best guest from the Sunday session Great Jazz with
Francesca Rudget on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks I'd Be.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
That was Chris Parker. I love the way he was
saying we should stop being so surprised when New Zealand
is successful on the global stage. There are heaps of
New Zealand comedians doing really well and ills. If you're
good it what you do, you can be successful. Do
it what you like, it'd be brilliant at it and
we should just expect that Kewis can do that. We
shouldn't be so surprising more. I like that attitude. Hey,
(45:01):
thanks for joining me on this News Talks He'd Be podcast.
Please feel free to share these chats and if you
like this podcast, make sure you follow us on iHeartRadio
or wherever you get your podcasts, don't forget that we
release a new episode of Great Chats on the last
Thursday of every month.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. The big names, the fascinating guests,
the thoughtful conversations, bringing you the best interviews from the
Sunday Session. This is Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, empowered
(00:27):
by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hello and welcome to Great Chats. I'm Francisca Rudkin, host
of the Sunday Session on News Talks ABB and in
this podcast, we picked some of our favorite feature interviews
from over the last month for you to enjoy. Coming up,
the hilarious Chris Parker joins me to talk about his
latest show, Stopping So Dramatic, and of course.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
He's totally dramatic.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I'm also joined by British author aa dand he writes
amazing thrillers. But he's also got this really fascinating backstories.
We're going to talk about that more later on First Up, though,
this month, I was really tough to get the opportunity
to speak to director Celene Song. I loved her debut
film Past Lives, that received two oscar I'm an including
Best Picture Seting. Second film is a rom com of suits,
(01:11):
about a matchmaker in New York. It's called Materialists, so
much to talk about. I start about asking with after
the success of Past Lives, did Hollywood come calling with
lots of offers for her second film?
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Well, I think that I already knew what I wanted
to do, because I actually, before Past Lives had its
beautiful Sundance premiere, I actually had already written Materialists. It's
a story that I've been wanting to tell for a
really long time. And there was a few months period
between when I finished Past Lives and when it came
(01:44):
out into the world at Sundance, and at that time,
I think that I wanted to write my next movie.
So it was really a story that came from the
time that I worked as a matchmaker for about six
months as a day job back in my twenties, and
ever since then, I always knew it was going to
be something that I make something about, so I spent
(02:04):
that I used that opportunity to write a script for Materialists.
So the whole time I was making I was releasing
Past Life. The whole time I was releasing Past Lives, I.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Knew that my next movie was going to be materialless
is that quite frustrating because because you know, when you
release the film, when it's a success, is just like
Past Lives was, It takes up a lot of your time,
doesn't it. It can take years of your life when
you're quite keen to just crack on to the next one.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Well, I feel like that desires of course there, but
you have to watch the life of this movie through.
And I think that because it was my debut film,
I had so much interest and energy in learning what
a life cycle of the movie was. So I feel
like I really enjoyed giving the whole thing, giving my
(02:52):
everything to you know, my very first movie. And I
think I've really learned a lot from that. And I
do think that I really did maybe a better filmmaker
too in a way, because it's just like, I don't know,
it's like you just learn a lot meeting your audience.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
You know, I'm fascinated by the six months that you
spent as a matchmaker. How did that come about?
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Well, I was a playwright for about ten years. And
the thing about our living in New York City, and
I think that this is probably relatable for so many
of us. But in New York City, the rent is
very high, and it is really hard to be a
freelance artist, and especially experienced artists in theater, and tried
(03:36):
to pay rent. So I needed a day job. And
the thing about you know, New York City is that
because the city of dreams full of really ambitious, wonderful people,
that the day job market is very competitive. So I
couldn't really get a day job. Like I tried to
get a day job as a barrista, and then I
(03:56):
learned that every brista job needed ten years of brista experience.
So I was just in a situation, unfortunately, where I
was getting a little bit desperate for a day job,
and I met somebody at a party who was working
as a matchmaker, and then I got really interested in it,
and I just like interviewed for the job and got it,
got trained, and I got to work. And I only
(04:19):
worked for about six months. So but you know, I
think I learned more in those six months than I
did any other part.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Of my life.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Were you good at it?
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Well, I mean I feel like I didn't do again,
I didn't do it for so long. I feel like
so much of just like any job, I would say,
so much of the job is the consistency like you
have to be you have to stick to it. You know,
you can't be good at it after having done it
for so short a time. You have to kind of
like grow and improve in it. But the reason why
I quit is because it was, honestly because the job
(04:51):
was too fun. My day job ended up being too fun,
I know. And it's because it's so fascinating because all
these strangers toward your clients, they just tell you what's
in their heart. They tell you what's in their heart
in a way that I would say that they wouldn't
even really share with their therapist, right because it is just.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
Such a thing that is connected to one's desire and
the more sacred of all love, the feelings of I
want to be loved, I want to love so because
it is about it is a business when it comes
to that, right, I mean dating as an industry.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
That I think that I just learned so much about
what's in people's hearts.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
And we see that in the film. There's a moment
when Lucy, you know, asks one of her clients just
that she's about to get married and she's got cold feet,
you know, deep down, tell me, tell me what you're
not going to tell anybody else, why do you what
is the reason why you want to get married? So
what an amazing experience and what else did you learn
about people from your time in that role?
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Well, I think that the main thing is that often
what we are face with, right is the way that
I think that we want to feel very valuable in
the world. And I think this is something that comes
from a whole lifetime of being commodified and and objectified.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Right.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
It's kind of like, you know, there's a line in
my film that goes, I'm not merchandised, I'm a person.
And to me, it's feel much about how the modern world,
the way that the internet works, the way that we're
asked to sort of like uh, you know, show everybody
or our photos and be seen. And also like there's
(06:41):
a very literal dating market on your phone, just like
you know, anything from tender to you know, bumble or whatever.
So much of those things are happening because and so
many of those things are resulting in all of us
starting to see ourselves as a bit of merchandise. And
I think that what I really was interested in with
(07:02):
this movie is how in a world where we're being
out to treat ourselves as merchandise, and that we should
try to improve our value right and become a more
valuable person. How in the middle of that we're able
to find this really ancient mystery and this ancient feeling
which is love, This thing that is famously not quantifiable.
(07:25):
It's famously something that is invisible and immaterial and just
something that remains a mystery to this day. And I
think that you know something that I think about. It's like, well,
merchandise cannot love another merchandise, but a person can love
another person. So how do we in this world where
we are being asked to be asked to live like
(07:47):
we're being asked to live like merchandise, how we still
remain being a person, And how do we actually still
believe in true love?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
How could we do that?
Speaker 4 (07:57):
It's sometimes when I talk about true love, I'm always like,
I sound like I think, I sound like I'm saying,
let's believe in Santa Claus. Right. It feels so different
call in the world where that's increasingly feeling very cynical,
where we're trying to turn everything into algorithms. I think
that it's so hard to still say yeah, But there
is this thing true off that I think that is
(08:21):
possible between people, and I always find it to be
sometimes met with such cynicism, but I can't help it.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
I believe in it.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
You know what I love about this film is you
explore so much. You explore personal expectations, social norms. You know,
marriage is a business deal, this idea of settling for
someone that you might think, you know isn't worthy of you,
and even just talking as you say, about what soeulth
Worth is and things, and about the mass and about
(08:55):
you know, love. And I think this is the kind
of film that people are going to head along to
and they're going to be entertained, but they're also going
to leave with a whole lot of other stuff to
talk about. Have you found that the film has just
opened up all these conversations?
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Yes, I think that, you know, like the most common
thing that I've heard even so far, And I feel
like as the movie comes out all around the world,
I'm going to keep hearing it, which is that we
haven't stopped talking about it since. So I think some
of it is going to be about opening up a
new ways of talking about ourselves and the way we
(09:31):
love and the what we believe about love. And it
doesn't mean that everybody's going to agree or it's going
to feel one way, but it's still going to mean
that we're going to get to talk about it. I'm
going to get to talk about it deeply. And I
just feel like there are so few there are so
few venues. There's so few venues where we get to
talk about our feelings. Right, There's actually so few places
(09:54):
where we are able to talk about what we believe
when it comes to love and life, right, And I
think that maybe it's going to be such a special
thing that you can come. I don't see this movie,
sit in the movie theater for a couple hours, and
then when you walk out of it, you're going to
start a conversation that's going to help you, that's going
(10:19):
to make you learn something about yourself or each other, right,
hopefully both right.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Absolutely, And as somebody who has watched a lot of
romantic comedies and romantic dramas over the years, what I
really loved is that you take the genre seriously, you
give it, you know you kind of I found it
really refreshing that there was all this there was so
much more depth this film that I maybe anticipated I
should have after see in past lives, but I kind
(10:46):
of just been I love the fact that you're actually
this isn't just sort of a throwaway pretty flick that's
selling me a fantasy. It's actually questioning the fantasy as well.
Speaker 6 (10:57):
Of course, why I feel like the thing is like
I think the genre is often not given enough respect, right, because,
which I think is really unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Because I think.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
About this in terms of what we call romance films
as chick flix, right, and people say, well, there is
a chick flick, it's not a serious movie. I think
about this as very sad in a couple of ways.
I think in one way, that's saying that chick flicks
are not serious. You're saying that chicks are not serious.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
People, right.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
And on the other hand, the other way that this
is sad is that you're saying that, well, for serious people,
the matters of the heart, and then the way that
we are asked to love in the modern world, the
way that our heart moves is not it should not
be of your interest. And why shouldn't serious people be
robbed of talking about this very universal theme, this thing
(11:52):
that is a mystery and a drama that haunts all
of us. You know, not all of us know what
it's like to say the world, but I think that
all of us do know this thing. And no matter
how ordinary you are, this is the one great drama
that is in your life. You can do this very extraordinary,
(12:13):
very brave thing, which is to love someone and to
be loved, which is when it happens, a complete miracle.
And of course the movie is always talking about it
as an incredible miracle when it happens, and the only
thing you can do when you're offered it is to
say yes.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I read that when you write a script and you
write characters, you don't have an actor in mind. You
don't write for a particular person. I thought that was
interesting because I really felt like you and the code
were on the same page here. I felt like you'd
written this for her.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Yeah, I know. Well, I think that that's sort of
how it feels like the cast. I mean, I think
that casting is a matchmaking process. And I would always
talk to my casting directors. That thought I was always
talked to them is if they are matchmakers, right, because
I have the characters on the page that I have
created in words, and then you go out into the
(13:07):
world in search of the soulmate the way that a
matchmaker would. So you're going out there and you're just
kind of and I wish that it was something like
that you could use math for, but the truth is
that you actually go out into the world and then
you actually get to experience it as an inspiration as
if it's love, right, and I have to fall in
(13:29):
love with the idea of them as characters. And when
it comes to Dakota, I'm so glad you point that out,
because that was it was so clear when it came
to Dakota. Like when I met Dakota, it was just
a general meeting. We were just hanging out. We just
came to know each other as people. And then it
was incredible because he then she and I I don't believe. Sorry,
I don't believe in love at first sight, but I
(13:50):
believe in love at first conversation. So I was just
in you know, in conversation with her, and I fell
in love with the idea of her as Lucy. It
felt like I was sitting there with Lucy and before
she got up from lunch lunch to go home, and
I was sitting there but before I got up, I
texted H four and my producers and said, I think
(14:13):
that I found there, Lucy. That's how clear it is,
just like love. Just like love, when it happens, it's
so obvious. So that's how inevitable it felt with the Koda,
And I think that it also extended then, of course,
because she was the first one to be tasked because
she's she's the movie. She's the one who has to
build the rest. And then I think that I met
(14:36):
Chris and I've known Petro, and for both of them,
it really again was about falling in love with them.
It's about falling into, you know, a person to a person,
feeling for it and something that of course, you know
the line that I was saying, the important line in
my movie, not merchandise. I'm a person. I think all
(14:59):
actors understand this, but of course my three actors really
understand this because they've all been treated as merchandise before.
So I think that so much of it is about
also falling in love.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
With the people. Right.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
It's like, maybe you won't think that it's obvious that
Chris Evans, as a merchandise would be right for the
role of John, but when you meet Chris the person,
it is so obvious, you know, if you meet Chris
as a as a guy, you just go, oh my god,
he's a John and he's perfect and he's actually born
for it, you know, And I think that's what's really been.
(15:34):
So that's what I really love aboadcasting. It's like you're
just falling in love with the right.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
People finally selling you know, past lives and as you've
just been talking about, materialists draw on your own personal experience.
Is that something that we're going to see sort of
continue with the films that you make. Does it make
sense to you to be inspired by your own life experience?
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Well, I feel like, you know, I think, don't matter
what I do, I know that it's going to be
in some way a thing that I've given myself too. Right,
So I think it more like what's in this situation.
I feel like so much of it it was and
is inspired by the things that you know that I've felt, right.
But I think that no matter what I do, and
(16:19):
even the parts of Past Lives or Materialists that are
not directly from my experience, even those things still have
to pull from my humanity, right, It has to still
come from how I am as a person and how
I am as a human being. So in that way,
it's always going to have a piece of me in it,
in a very deep, in a pretty philosophical way, like
(16:43):
I think Materialists, you know, like it's still a story
about Lucy, who is not me, but still it's gonna
have throughout the DNA of what I believe about love
and life. Right, it's going to fully have what I
know about the world and what I believe. Right, it's
(17:04):
gonna be pretty clear about what I think about loven late.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
The biggest names from the Sunday session Great chats with
Francheska Rudkin on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks at b That.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Was Celene's song talking about her latest film, Materialists. If
you've seen the film, then you'll know it's all about
a matchmaker. I wasn't expecting Selene to say that she
had worked as a matchmaker. Also, like the way she's
standing up for the rom com or romantic dramas. They
don't need to be dumbed down for make Flix, do they.
I like the way she nails modern dating in the film.
(17:39):
It's worth ching out. If you haven't seen it. Already right.
Next up with the fascinating story of AA Darnt. In
a previous career, crime writer, AA Darnd dealt with a
lot running his one hundred hour pharmacy in Bradford overdos's
violence abuse you know him. He was surrounded by drugs,
drug dealers and he got a good insight into the
lives of addicts. This experience has inspired his new book
(18:03):
called The Chemist. And we started off by talking about
the importance of good twists and thrillers. I asked him
whether this was the key to writing a good thriller.
Speaker 7 (18:13):
I think, I think it's really statisfying when you take
you lead the audience down the garden path and all
the time they were in the completely wrong place altogether.
So I really enjoy that element of surprise. It's really
satisfying for me as a writer to fool the audience.
And also, I think for the audience, I love the
fact that they'll be reading it and they'll be like,
oh my god, how did he do that to us?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
So yeah, it's really enjoyable for me.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
The line in the publicity release reads, he knows how
to save you and he knows how to kill you.
The pharmacist is a great main character for a book
like this, with that path that they hold. Were you
very aware of that concept and its potential for a
novel back when you owned a pharmacy.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (18:54):
I kind of wrote it as Dexter meets Breaking Bad.
And the idea came to me because I was at
my pharmacy and I'd seen a very unfortunate sur drug
gill go wrong, and somebody had died outside my pharmacy.
They've been murdered, and the whole area was on lockdown
and the police were there in helicopters, and I closed
my pharmacy and I was kind of retreating into the
(19:15):
dispensary in the dark, and I was I was thinking, God,
if a drug dealer walks into my pharmacy and threatened
me to supply drugs to all of my methodone addicts,
that would be.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
A really bad position to be in.
Speaker 7 (19:28):
And I thought, how would I get out of that
if the lives of my family was on the line.
And I'm walking around the dispensary and I remember I
wasn't the ambient lighting was on, just the emergency of
perimeter lights, and I'm.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Looking at all the medication bays.
Speaker 7 (19:41):
But this time, I've become the chemist, and I'm looking
at the medications now and weaponizing them and thinking, how
could I use medication which has always been designed for
good to do bad to take down a drug dealer,
and dexter meets breaking Bad was born.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
I suddenly started.
Speaker 7 (19:59):
To realize all the medications I've got side effects, They've
all got interactions.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
And that line just came to me.
Speaker 7 (20:05):
You know, the only different between a medication and a
poison is the dose. And the novel was born.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Within the book We The setting is kind of near
this council housing area called the Mews. Did you work
in an area near a council housing area like this?
What was it like where your pharmacy was.
Speaker 7 (20:28):
Yeah, there was an area which I have made into
the Mews in the book of the Dystopian World, where
drug addicts, people on probation and the legal immigrants live.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
And I looked after an.
Speaker 7 (20:38):
Area like this in Leeds and I remember having to
go there, wanted to do a welfare check on somebody
who was really concerned about who I'd arrived from their
daily medication. There were a blue script of mine in England,
methadonias prescribed on blue prescriptions, hence I referred to as
blue scripts. And I remember going to the state thinking
I really don't want to go onto this estate because it's.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
A bit dangerous, it's a bit dodgy.
Speaker 7 (20:59):
But I got out of my car and all my
blue scripts were there, and they were like, hey, the
Chemist is here, because they affectionately always referred to me
as the chemist. And they're like, what's the chemist doing here?
And I was like, lads, I need to go and
do a welfare check on this address, and but I
know worries man will escort you.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
And I'm walking through this area and everybody's looking at
me and going, hey, the chemist is here.
Speaker 7 (21:17):
And I suddenly realized that I've got access because of
my job, because of the trust they have in me,
because they see me every single day for methodown, you know,
three hundred and sixty five days of the year. I've
got trust and I've got equity. And they escorted me
through the estate. Nobody said anything to me, and again
I just realized that actually, my job as a pharmacist
(21:38):
has given me privileged access to worlds that nobody else
could see.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
And you felt protected, then, not threatened.
Speaker 7 (21:45):
I felt totally protected and when we went to the
address that I needed to go to and they're like,
am it do you want to help you break the
door down? And I was like, lads, you're all on probation,
so if you break this door down with me, you're
going to get into trouble. And I found the police
and we did a welfare check on this lady who
had unfortunately passed away. And I knew she passed away
because she arrived at my pharmacy every single morning for
specific medication for two years. Arrived every day and then
(22:07):
she didn't arrive one day. And you always get worried
on that because any change in routine is a red flag.
And I cannot tell you I didn't feel in danger
at all. I felt empowered almost. I was like, God, I.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Really am the chemist. And it was just a moment where,
you know, the novel really came to life.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
And of course the Blue scripts and the myth and
own patients play a large part in this boog. Do
people understand your role in their care and how dangerous
it can be?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yeah, they do.
Speaker 7 (22:38):
It's it's quite amazing that you know, the blue scripts
when they come in, that.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
They understand this world.
Speaker 7 (22:45):
And I always have a really frank conversation with them
about when they come into the pharmacy, which is, you know,
I'm going to treat you like I treat any other patient.
So you'll wait in line for your prescriptions, and I
will supervise you in a very professional manner, and I
won't treat you like a tertiary person.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Sometimes they get treated like that.
Speaker 7 (23:02):
So I think I had I had access and privilege
because I've always treated people with respect, especially in my
Blue Scripts, because I see the person behind what you
what other people would just see as the addicts. You think, oh,
there's an addict, and there's a very sort of hostile,
cliched view of what addicts should be on my tib
steals and my criminal record. Whereas I get to know,
(23:23):
you know, John Frank, Peter Luke, the person behind the
blue script, the person behind the addiction, the person who's.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Got a family.
Speaker 7 (23:29):
It's got a wife, who's got kids, who's had hardship
in life. It humanizes them and there's this lovely relationship
that is born because again the Blue Scripts see me
every single day.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
So if you think.
Speaker 7 (23:40):
About it, how many, how many, how many roles in
life where you will see a healthcare professional every single day.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
It's very rare. It's a very unique relationship that is born.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And I hadn't thought about that. I hadn't thought about
your roles. Is a lot more than just providing them
with a medication. As you say, you are that person
that knows whether they're are turning out there taking it,
whether they're okay, whether they're not. You know, you're probably
the the one and only person for a lot of
these people who know whether they're okay. There's quite a
lot of responsibility, isn't it beyond just dishing out some drugs?
Speaker 7 (24:13):
It is, and I took it really seriously and I
wanted to get to know them. You know, I would
always say good morning to them. I would always say
do you want a cup of tea? You know, if
sometimes you could just know, if you say good morning
to somebody every single day, you know, on day fifty
seven they say good morning in a slightly different way,
you know something's wrong. So I'd be like, look, you know,
do you want a cup of tea? Do you want
to chat? I always used to say, you know, nobody
(24:34):
should go hungry in this world, and you know, so
if my blue ships were hungry, or they wanted a
cup of coffee and they wanted.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
A piece of TOASTU listen to just take a set,
I'll sort you out.
Speaker 7 (24:42):
So I always took care of them, and I was
very aware that this interaction that they're having, which is
a routine, regular one, there's so much more that I
can mind from it. Rather than just being the person
that hands them some green liquid, I'm the person that
they can be. Therefore when they need help, I'm the
person that can be Therefore, when they need a shoulder
to cry on, I'm the person there when they just
(25:02):
need an ear to, you know, someone to listen to them.
You wouldn't believe how much equid that gives you as
a healthcare professional. So that when I go into areas
like the Muse and they say, what's the chemist doing here?
Speaker 3 (25:13):
What do you need now?
Speaker 7 (25:14):
And that's the difference you see in that moment when
I walked into that estate, they wanted to repay those
favors for me, have given them mendalist cups of tea
or a piece of toast, or just the fact that
I would say good morning to them every day and
try them with respect.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
The chemist is here. What can we do for you?
So you know, it's a really really.
Speaker 7 (25:29):
Fantastic relationship that I managed to form with my Blue
scripts over twenty years.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Do recovering ericts get the best key that they can
in the UK? Does the system work?
Speaker 3 (25:39):
No, they don't.
Speaker 7 (25:40):
Unfortunately, it's a very cost effective system of healthcare. And
by that what I mean is we simply substituting one
addiction for a cheaper version of of addiction. You know,
I've done my job for twenty two years and I've
seen one person in that time come off of methadone.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
And the point is the.
Speaker 7 (25:58):
Methodone gives them stability in terms of that it's going
to fix their opioid deficit and give.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Them a bridge. Wish there was more we could do.
Speaker 7 (26:07):
I think addiction services in the UK and in fact
globally as some of the poorest funded areas of healthcare
that we have. It's really tragic and a lot more
needs to be done to rectify that.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
The chemist in the book Edrith Can He is a
really intriguing and rich protagonist. I feel like there is
so much more to learn about him.
Speaker 7 (26:28):
Yeah, and for me it was like, okay, I've written
you know, the Verdie.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Novels with Dco Harry Verdi and a lot of novels.
Speaker 7 (26:34):
You know, you can see a detective and then there's
a bad guy, and there's a very formulaic way of
writing those books. But this in their community pharmacy, you know,
for me, it was really fascinating, really exciting to go
in there because again, I'm weaponizing the drugs.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
I'm the expert who knows.
Speaker 7 (26:47):
And in fact, you know, I take out one of
the bad guys using your medication that everybody will have
at home in their medicine drawer, medicine you can buy
from your corner shop, from your petrol station. It's not
always about the big sexy heroine oxycontins of this world.
The fact is every single medication in the right hands
could be deadly. So it was really amazing for me
to take viewers into the pharmacy world that they probably
have never seen before because it just can't is that
(27:10):
person that will go with that extra mile. He's in
a relationship where so his ex wife is on methadone
a very small dose, and she's really on that because
she just wants to see him every day.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
There's this unrequited love story and.
Speaker 7 (27:21):
She gets herself into a really bad situation with a
drug dealer, and it just has to intervene. And again,
how far would you go for somebody that you love?
How far would you go to protect those around you?
How far would you go to save your own lives?
And then you realize that the Chemist is just can't
because he's got this access to this world of the Muse,
because there's trust there.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
He becomes a really dangerous character.
Speaker 7 (27:43):
And everybody underestimates him up their peril because, as they
say in the book, but he's just a chemist.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Yeah, but he's so much more than that.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I don't want to talk, you know, I don't want
to say word about the unpredictable ending. But you hate
to seat yourself up beautifully for a seke Well, I'm
presuming this is going to be a series.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Yeah, I'm writing. I'm on writing the Secret at the moment. Yea, absolutely.
I like to get into the world.
Speaker 7 (28:07):
I like to set it up with the first novel
and really introduced readers to the world I haven't seen before.
I do it in a sort of hopefully a dynamic, exciting,
sort of pacey way, because like I said, you know,
the best is yet to come. You know, I've set
up at Addriss for Anarchy at the end of this book,
so it'd really interesting to see where I take him
in the next book.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Did you always want to be a writer? How did
you end up being a pharmacist?
Speaker 3 (28:29):
You know, I was.
Speaker 7 (28:30):
I was brought up in a in a white working
class of state in Bradford, and parents had a corner shop,
and I kind of did the South Asian thing of
you know, going to university and trying to get the
best job that I could get to ensure that I
could lift my family and myself out out of you know,
sort of relative poverty, to be honest. So I did
the tried and tested formula of you know, who around
me is doing well, and I had some family friends
(28:52):
that pharmacists, and it's like a good stable career. I'd
also been raised in customer service in a corner shop.
I'd always been in a retail environment, so it felt
like a natural fit. And I wanted to be a pharmacist.
But obviously I had this hobby and this passion of
reading thriller as I was reading Stephen and Thomas Harris
way before I should have been you know, probably ten
eleven years old, I was reading them. So when I
qualified as a pharmacist, it was really just a hobby
(29:13):
that became something. You know, I was writing a novel
I started in two thousand and six to be ten
years to get published one point one million unsuccessful words.
But it was just a passion that I had, you know,
a side hustle that ended up becoming a full time job.
So it was the hobby that basically became my full
time gig.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
I love the way. You know how many unpublished works
they were two thy fifteen, you became the first South
Asian writer to get a publishing deal in the UK.
Others have followed since you're also bringing the you know,
your people to life in your books and now in
TV adaptations as well. How important is that for you
to have that representation in both characters and writers.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yeah, it's really important.
Speaker 7 (29:55):
So I aspired to live in a world where we
don't fetishize representation anymore. It's not like, oh, yeah, who's
the South Asian person we can go to. I want
it to be so normalized that there are lots of
South Asian writers. There are lots of South Aga in
TV shows. Obviously, when I first started, I did hear
a lot, but you know, sav Agians don't write crime.
They write wonderful literary works of fiction that when man
book apprizes, or they write about range of marriages or terrorism.
(30:16):
Because there wasn't a single commercial crime fiction writer out there,
which is probably why it took me ten years, and
I had a lot of rejections along the way, but
I was like, well, at some point we're going to
change this narrative, I'd like to be the one to
do it. And the same with the TV adaptation that
took seven years. For verdie it was like, well, we've've
seen South Asians on TV and comedic roles are very
cliche ridden worlds. Where's the cool Maverick, where's the Bruce
(30:38):
Wullism die Hard, Where's that kind of gung ho sort
of character that's going to break all the rules. So
I think representation is really important, But like I said,
it has to be something that isn't fetishized. It has
to be something that's just so routine and so mundane
that nobody talked about representations representation anymore because it's so
normal and so routine.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Bringing you the best interviews from the Sunday Session Great
Jets with Francesca Rudgin on iHeartRadio Empowered by News Talks.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
It be that was aa Darnt. You may read his
di Harry Verdie novels. They've been turned into a major
BBC TV drammer. Now I reckon that this book is
going to be perfect for a TV series as well.
But we were talking about the new book, which is
called The Chemist. I did know that he was a
pharmacist turned writer, and I knew that it was the
(31:26):
inspiration behind the book, but I wasn't quite aware of
just how much it inspired the book. He kind of
really is this character The Chemist. Anyway, if you're looking
for a page turner with a maverick hero, I can
recommend the book. And he told me that the sequel
will be out next year next Chris Parker, This man
review is hilarious. He popped in during the tour of
(31:47):
his show Stopping So Dramatic, and we started off by
talking about the latest addition to his family. Her name
is Margot Darling Parker McCabe. She's a rescue pup and
I asked how it was going. Was everyone adjusting well?
Speaker 8 (32:02):
She's adjusting well. I on the other hand, you know,
it's a big shift just lived. I think, you know,
if you look at sort of a same sex relationship
marriage on paper, it's a pretty easy go in life,
you know, despite some maybe like global pushback in terms
of our own lifestyle, it's just so nice, you know,
we had there's sort of no obstacle there was. It
(32:24):
was just like you'd wake up and whatever time you wanted,
and like we had no obligations. It was just like
one house plant that we sort of tried to keep alive.
And then we just thought, well, let's go and ruin
this all like highly like high needs dog that you know,
she's so precious. But it just it's a lot, I mean,
(32:44):
and everyone tells you it's a lot of work, and
you're like, I know, and then you see everyone at
these cafes and out on walks and you're like, so
it's a lot of work, but there's a lot of
this too. And then every dog just has their own
specific personality traits and Margo has hers. But we're getting there.
We've got a trainer, he's training us. He told me
I was a good boy.
Speaker 9 (33:05):
The other day.
Speaker 8 (33:06):
It gave me a pat I almost said it at
his feet, so did my belly asked for a rub.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
So everyone told you it was going to be hard work,
but you're still surprised it's as much hard work as
it is.
Speaker 9 (33:18):
Isn't that like true of life, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Really?
Speaker 8 (33:21):
I think that's what I'm beginning to understand. It's like,
you know, there's all these choices you can make beit
have children or have a dog, or buy a house,
or move away from your family and friends and try
it in a new city or something, and everyone goes, oh,
it's really hard, and you think, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally,
but you don't actually hear that, and you're, yeah, I
understand that's hard conceptually, and then you make the choice
(33:43):
to do it yourself, and you think, oh my gosh,
they were right, this is so hard.
Speaker 9 (33:47):
Why did no one tell me?
Speaker 8 (33:48):
Like everyone was telling you, you just weren't listening, or
you thought you would be an exception.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I think it's the way it can get pitched to
you at times. So I had two kids and then
we thought I really wanted to get a puppy, and
everybody who has kids and a dog said, it is
your third child. It is a third child, And that
just isonated since we never got the puppy.
Speaker 9 (34:09):
I mean, so you listened.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
It was just a way that I was like, well,
I'm not even a third child, so why would I
get a third child?
Speaker 8 (34:15):
You know, I would say, though, like we do love it,
and I'm being like, you know, obviously like a bit
giby about it all, like, but she is a true
pleasure and she's you know, his parents say she's actually
the greater educator. She is teaching us.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
So it's so mature. I heard, and I don't know
if I don't know if you're joking or not that
sometimes you leave your own podcast at home so she
doesn't get lonely.
Speaker 9 (34:40):
Oh no, we are definitely doing that.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
So you have tuned into a parent. You are parenting this.
Speaker 9 (34:46):
You have to.
Speaker 8 (34:47):
So basically, you take her out for a walk and
she sees another dog while on her leaseh and she
just goes crazy. And then if you leave her home
alone for like an even like five ten minutes, she'll
go crazy again. And so we're just we're working through it,
and we're not like because everyone wants to give advice,
don't they. And this is what I think my parent
talking about it. But you can't. Here's the thing, as
(35:09):
a dog owner, you can't compare your struggles to parents.
They don't want to They don't want to hear that
at all. I don't hear it at all. So you
have to just find childless, gaze with high needs dogs,
and that's your community.
Speaker 9 (35:23):
That's who you talk to.
Speaker 8 (35:24):
Because as soon as you go, oh yeah, you had
to sleep this night and tell me about it. My
dog was barking at helicopters, they go, no, you don't understand,
and I don't want to hear this.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
So you're two dates into your nine date tour New Zealand.
So how's that separation going?
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Is it all right?
Speaker 8 (35:43):
It's pretty good. We're doing weekends away. Margo and I
did Todunga together because my brother lives there. So she's
you know, we had a whole system set up, babysitters,
all that kind of thing.
Speaker 9 (35:54):
Or she's actually I should say she's not. She is
a three year.
Speaker 8 (35:57):
Old dog, so she's actually like a thirty five year
old woman and dog is living with us, so she
was adult sat by my brother while we did the show.
Speaker 9 (36:07):
I love touring New Zealands.
Speaker 8 (36:09):
I love getting around the country and it's because it's like,
what my fourth or fifth tour, annual tour, I've got
my favorite little spot. So I just really enjoy, you know,
popping back in and Hi, I'm back on the road again.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Are we quite different in different places? Where is this
sort of the comedy sensibility really the same across keewis?
Speaker 8 (36:33):
Gosh, imagine if the answer was like, yes, so different
to you know, but I truly as boring as the
answer is like, no, I think we're the same. I
think as well, we are the same internationally, you know,
maybe a little reserved, but I don't. I mean, New
zeal audiences are sort of no one in the comedy
community for being a bit tough because we're quite reserved people.
(36:55):
We don't like to sort of be seen laughing as well.
But I like to be like, well, I've never.
Speaker 9 (37:00):
Heard that.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I've got a problem over here.
Speaker 9 (37:04):
There's been pretty loud of my audience. They.
Speaker 8 (37:09):
I think that's what I find quite encouraging those because
I think we just still have this weird mentality sometimes.
Speaker 9 (37:16):
Of like oh, we're just like little old Kiwason. No
one knows about us, and we're just a team of
five million and at the part of the world.
Speaker 8 (37:22):
And then I'm like, oh no, we're like our sensibility
what we can laugh at as just as you know,
advanced and as complicated and as robust as any kind
of like international audience who might be seeing like comments
at the top of their game. So I'm like, we,
you know, we it's just people, you know, That's what
(37:43):
I just think.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Hugely successful New Zealand comedians have a massive in Australia.
I mean, you're taking off to Edinburgh and London as
well this year with this tour and hugely well known
and well received in these places.
Speaker 8 (38:00):
I know. I mean, but again, I'm like, when do
we stop acting surprised about this?
Speaker 9 (38:05):
You know?
Speaker 8 (38:05):
When you true, when do we start going oh no,
it's always been this way and we've always known that
we're crack up, but we just.
Speaker 9 (38:11):
Love to be like who us, you know.
Speaker 8 (38:14):
I'm like, I think about us on a sort of
global scale in terms of our industry, our entertainment industry
even broadly, you know, like, lord, who you know came
from this country is a like international like most talked
about pop star of the year, You've got like in
terms of choreography and my Paris global is like top
(38:34):
of her game. Comedy directors you think about, like Tiger,
I'm like, when's it? What's it going to take for
us to realize that these these aren't miracles?
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Absolutely that one off.
Speaker 8 (38:44):
This is the fabric of our country that we create
incredible talent.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Oh, you're right, you're right, You're absolutely right. Well, we're
not very good. I think we're getting better at celebrating success.
Speaker 8 (38:56):
Makes you think we should invest more in the arts.
Just a little just thinking about that, I know, Yeah,
it's success.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, stop being so dramatic. Is that a title? It
seemed at you or society as a whole.
Speaker 8 (39:10):
It's aimed at me specifically. I've heard that my whole life.
You know, I am a rude What was sort of
noen and my family dining table was that I would
at dinner sort of stand up and storm out late
because my siblings have been driving at me from the
other side. And you know, growing up with siblings is
just like a very specific type of mental torture, isn't it,
(39:33):
Because they just know your weaknesses and they and they'll
push them, and they are brilliant at it, and then
somehow get away purely totally innocent, and then I would
storm out and then I'd give myself that ten minutes
to call down Mom. Would the old stop being so dramatic, Chris,
I'll come back in and I'd say, fine, I.
Speaker 9 (39:50):
Liked my dessert.
Speaker 8 (39:55):
Afterpart of nothing as well, Like I just sort of
come back in because I was hungry. So I've always
sort of reacted strongly to things, been a very passionate person,
and this sh is a like a reclamation of that,
of that side of myself. I think passion is a
(40:15):
good thing, and I think passion in this world now
is an amazing thing. So I just think people want
us to be less passionate because it's easier to control
us and get us in line. And there are certain
parts of my stuff from I don't want to get
in that line, you know. So I think I'm just
about holding on to my voltage, you know. That's what
(40:36):
this show's about.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
The show got great reviews at the Melbourne Comedy Festival,
and one review said Parker plows through anxiety inducing anecdotes
in an earnest attempt to undermine the power of cringe,
and I love that. I don't know if that's it,
that's it? Why are we so afraid of cringe? Why
do we kind of.
Speaker 8 (40:55):
Well, I mean, as a millennial, I found cringe to like,
you know, if that word got like thrown around the playground,
it was like a death sentence in a way. You're
so cringe you couldn't kind of come back from that.
It was almost like the worst thing you ever hear
in your life. I think number one is when your
sister's friends were over, your older sister's friends, and you're
kind of running around and doing a show for them,
(41:17):
and then you hear from the other side of the lounge,
cress stop showing off, and you cannot come back from that,
and I think, yeah, you're kind of cringe.
Speaker 9 (41:27):
Is another one.
Speaker 8 (41:28):
It's like it's quite hard for people to see you
in a new light when you're labeled as cringe. I, however, think,
you know, a cringe is just like another way of
being like pull back, reduce yourself.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
And in it yourself, you know exactly.
Speaker 8 (41:47):
Because I don't like necessarily like what I or it
doesn't like align with how I see or you know,
it's like it's so I.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Just need to take ourselves a little less seriously.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
Exactly, and just you know, and just.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Sometimes it's okay if you know.
Speaker 9 (42:02):
And so I do think.
Speaker 8 (42:03):
Yeah, I mean, that's what the show examines, is that
potentially cring. It was after one quite big night I
had out partying that I thought maybe cringe is the
tool of the oppressor. And look that's quite a dramatic statement.
But then it's in the title, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Absolutely okay. So you've already toured this through Australia that's
been hugely successful. You're doing New Zealand, as I mentioned,
you're then after London and Edinburgh. Is that generally the
cycle of a comedian and you come up with the
show and you tool that one for is it generally
about a year?
Speaker 8 (42:38):
There's a couple of like yeah, sort of yeah, ideally
do you think about it. I'm really starting to be like, oh,
I'm a business, which my dad has been like shaking
into me, you know, like this is job.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
So it's like it's quite good at it and it's
gone quite well money. Oh this is a job.
Speaker 9 (43:00):
So yeah.
Speaker 8 (43:01):
But it starts as this passion of yours, this I
just vocation, and then suddenly it becomes a big operation
and so yeah, you spend the top half of the
year sort of getting well first couple of months of
the year, getting that show into shape, and the latter
half of this year, I'll start developing new material. It's
a hamster wheel, so you start building up that new material,
(43:24):
you trial out at small shows, work in progresses. You're
basically bombing in front of the audience trying to find
out what's working. Because that's the hard thing about our
job is that we work it out in front of people.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Because Margo's not going to tell you where no, she.
Speaker 8 (43:39):
Just loves me no matter what. She has such an
unreliable audience. And then you know, you sort of edit
what you've got and try and get it into an
hour and then you just want to tour it so
much because it's taken so much work and so much
like dying out in front of an audience to get
it to a good shape, that you want to make
the most of it.
Speaker 9 (43:58):
And so.
Speaker 8 (44:00):
Australia is the first leg and people do the Adelaide
Fringe and then they do Melbourne Comedy Fistile that's a
huge festival that's a month, Sydney, Brisbane, Perth, and then
that'll lead you into edit on New Zealand International Comedy
festival into Edinburgh, and then you sort of might tour
you know, UK for a bat and then you'll be
(44:20):
so tired you never want to say what you've.
Speaker 9 (44:22):
Ever readden again.
Speaker 8 (44:23):
You're so over it, you're cringing at yourself ironically, and
then you'll be done with it and you start again,
and it's just that you just don't ever seem to
get off of the wheel.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
The best guest from the Sunday session Great Jazz with
Francesca Rudget on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks I'd Be.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
That was Chris Parker. I love the way he was
saying we should stop being so surprised when New Zealand
is successful on the global stage. There are heaps of
New Zealand comedians doing really well and ills. If you're
good it what you do, you can be successful. Do
it what you like, it'd be brilliant at it and
we should just expect that Kewis can do that. We
shouldn't be so surprising more. I like that attitude. Hey,
(45:01):
thanks for joining me on this News Talks He'd Be podcast.
Please feel free to share these chats and if you
like this podcast, make sure you follow us on iHeartRadio
or wherever you get your podcasts, don't forget that we
release a new episode of Great Chats on the last
Thursday of every month.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!