December 28, 2025 • 9 mins
Labour Leader Chris Hipkins says he is confident ahead of next year's election.
He told Andrew Dickens that the party is focused on gaining more confidence from the public, and says he will still be the Labour Leader when the election rolls round.
'Our our public support's been, really building, and we've got some real momentum going into this campaign'
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk zed B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Chris Hipkins Chrishippins is buckling up for one of the
biggest political fights of his life. Chris Hipkins survived a
post just in the Labor Party. He lost the election.
Now he's facing regaining the public's faith in Labor. He
would like a twenty twenty six victory. The question is
can he do it? Is he the right man? Chris
Hipkins joins me. Now, goodbrding to you.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Chris, good morning, great to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
All right, we'll get into the serious stuff.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
First.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Am I going to be talking to you as leader
in November during the election campaign?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Well, I'm hoping that you speaking to me as incoming
prime minister by the end. There's a little bit of
water to flow under the bridge. We don't quite yet
know what the date's going to be for the election,
but you know we're looking forward to that.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Campaign and you're confident that you'll be the leader.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Oh, there's absolutely no question about that. A Labor team
has been absolutely rock solid all the way through. We
know that we had a lot of rebuilding to do
after the last election. We lost. The last election, you've
got to do a lot of rebuilding from that. We've
done a lot of that hard work. Our public support
has been really building, and we've got some real momentum
(01:19):
going into this campral I.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
You can understand though, why this question keeps being asked
because the last election you lost, and normally losers don't
keep their jobs.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Yeah, of course, and it's a question that I asked
myself after the last elections. So as every political leader
should in those circumstances, I jump over from Jinda sort
of at the last minute. It really only didn't have
that long in the job, and I knew that it
was going to be a tough election where we'd already
lost a lot of popularity, a lot of support by
the time I took over as leader. You know, I'm
(01:49):
determined to have another go at it. I'm determined to
win the next election, and I, frankly, having lost the
last election, having had this three years in opposition to
really regroup and rethink. I think I'll be a much
less better leader because of that.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Okay, Now, from the last pose we had at the
end of last year, we saw it seems obvious that
to become government. You're going to have to work with
Winston Peters again. Now is that possible from your side?
And do you think he'd be into it?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I think it's too far too early to be making
those kind of predictions. If you'd asked me a year ago,
you know where we're at the polls, we would have
been talking about potentially, you know, a three or a
fourway a government that Labor would be part of. Now
it's down to probably being able to work with just
two just one other party. You know, a two way
government is a distinct possibility for Labor coming out the
(02:37):
other side of this election. So I'm really encouraged by
that growth and support, but we've got to work hard
over the coming year to build on that.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
You just said you'd have to work with one other party,
which obviously suggests that you don't think the Maori Party
will exist at the end of this year.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well, our goal is to win all of those seats
this year. The Malory Party has been in no fit
shape to be part of any kind of constructive conversation
about what a future government might look like, and I
don't think they're going to.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Be Well, how do you think Maori perceived that though.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well we've seen to collapse in their support. And you
know the feedback that we're getting from the Madi electrics,
you know, the bearing in mind we won the party
vote and all of those Maji electrics last time. The
feedback we're getting is that we will probably get both
votes from most of those people in the coming election.
So we're only to win both the seat and the
party vote.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
But here's the thing though. Of course, because you've won
the party vote, you've got your list MPs. But of
course you've got some other MPs because the Maori Party
won the electorate votes. If there is no Maori Party,
you might end out losing the overhang. O.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Well, the opening, you know, can happen under MMP, and
it's a legitimate outcome under MP. But I don't think
it's something you should aim for because it is a
bit of a distortion of the system. So our goal
clearly is to get more seats than any other party,
put ourselves in the strongest possible position to form the government.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Now, you managed to do what many labor leaders have
not been able to do, and you've survived to capital gains,
tax roll out. Now did you get this right, And
I want to know why you ring fence the revenue
to primary healthcare. Was it the most politically safe option,
because you know, you might have got more buy in
if you said, look, there's going to be a CGT.
That's going to mean more infrastructure. So in the hindsight,
(04:17):
was universal free GP visits the right place to put
that revenue?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Well, I think a simple targeted capital gains tax wins
on two funds. Well, people can see that it's time,
it's necessary. You know, we've got to move our focus
away from just constant investment and speculative rental property and
get people investing in productive businesses and productive funds that
are actually going to help us to create good jobs
and grow our economy. But the second win is people
(04:43):
can see that there's a crisis in our health system.
We've got this huge aging population that's putting more and
more pressure on our health system. We've got to pay
for that somehow. And so a simple targeted capital gains tax,
you know, kills two birds with one stone. It allows
us to change the economy and it helps us to
fix the health system.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
So, Chris, the common argument of the right leaning voter
is that if you guys, come back and you're going
to put us further into so is our international credit
rating and debt repayments something at the front of your mind.
What debt level are you comfortable with? And are we
really in the stook that national keeps on saying we are.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
It's part of the right wing fairytail. They tell themselves
that labor governments don't manage the economy national only national
governments know how to manage the economy. The fact actually
tell a different story. If you look at the credit
ratings agencies. The last time we were in government, we
actually got a credit ratings upgrade. You know, our credit
rating got better under a labor government. In twenty twenty three,
(05:39):
they actually gave our management of the COVID response a
big tick. They said that we've managed the economy responsibly,
we'd kept the economy out of recession. This, you know,
the current economic situation that we're in a create creature
of this government. They chose to cut taxes and create
a structural deficit, despite saying to New Zealanders that the
text cuts wouldn't create a deficit. That's exactly what they've done.
(06:02):
And they've taken forecasts of economic growth which they inherited
from us, and they've turned them into a recession.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
So you're perfectly happy to borrow more.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Well, I haven't said that. I've said that will responsibly
manage the economy and that's what we did last time.
It's what we will do next time. If you look
at the probably the best finance minister in New Zealand
has seen in my lifetime. They're the only finance minister
to have run surpluses every year, to have paid off
all government debt. It was Michael Cullen and it was
a labor government that did it.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And god rest is sold. Hey that last general election,
the problem you had was Auckland, and you had a
problem with Auckland because of the long COVID lockdowns. Have
you got a strategy to win back the trust of Aucklanders.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
We've seen a lot of increase in support in Auckland.
You know, we've been in our own poll. Towards the
end of last year we were overtaken the National Party,
which is the first time in about four and four
four and a half years I think we'd overtaken them,
and that was becoming a consistent trend Towards the end
of last year, so we'll be aiming to do that
this year. I've spent a lot of time on the
ground in Auckland talking about what they care about. You know,
(07:04):
Aucklanders have told us the same as other people around
the country, they want to see us focused jobs, health, homes,
costs of living. Those are the core issues that have
mattered to them. So that's what all we campaigning.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
On now, talking about coalitions. You got engaged to your partner, Tony.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I that was That was definitely one of the highlights.
So if you take it outside of the workfront, that
was definitely more highlight.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
For I bet. I bet. Was there a long negotiation process.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
No, No, this was a remarkably quick negotiation. Actually it
was all over and done within a few minutes on
a park beach at the Botanical Gardens.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Very good. And she's ready to step up, you know,
because of the public scrutiny that comes with your job
and your the job you would prefer to have. She's
ready for that sort of pressure.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean she we sort of started seeing
each other during the brief period that I was primeters
the last time, and so I think although we did
keep our relationship, you know, quiet during that time. We
became public about that after the election, but she's she's
become accustomed to the scrutiny that goes with these public jobs.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Very good. And the wedding plans pre or post election.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
In a post election, we've got to get the election
campaign out of the way first. We're looking at next
summer very nice.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
And speaking of this summer, what do the hipkinsers do
for summer?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
We've got a beat house on the Company Coast, a
lot of quite a lot of gardening, a bit of
time at the beach, some quality time with the kids,
some bike rides, some you know, it's just sort of
hanging out on building sea and castles and doing all
of those sorts of good summer recreational activities.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Are our summer holidays too long? As Simon Bridges said, No.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
No, not at all. I think it's fantastic here. We
get a decent breakover the summer, and it's good to
you know, you can take a breakover summer knowing that
everyone else is taking a breakover summer, so you don't
have to feel guilty about them.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
All right, Chris, in my regards to Tony, thank you
for your time today on the summer breakfast and enjoy
your summer, and.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
We are everybody listening a happy summer as well.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
For more from News Talks b listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iart Radio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk zed B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Chris Hipkins Chrishippins is buckling up for one of the
biggest political fights of his life. Chris Hipkins survived a
post just in the Labor Party. He lost the election.
Now he's facing regaining the public's faith in Labor. He
would like a twenty twenty six victory. The question is
can he do it? Is he the right man? Chris
Hipkins joins me. Now, goodbrding to you.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Chris, good morning, great to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
All right, we'll get into the serious stuff.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
First.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Am I going to be talking to you as leader
in November during the election campaign?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Well, I'm hoping that you speaking to me as incoming
prime minister by the end. There's a little bit of
water to flow under the bridge. We don't quite yet
know what the date's going to be for the election,
but you know we're looking forward to that.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Campaign and you're confident that you'll be the leader.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Oh, there's absolutely no question about that. A Labor team
has been absolutely rock solid all the way through. We
know that we had a lot of rebuilding to do
after the last election. We lost. The last election, you've
got to do a lot of rebuilding from that. We've
done a lot of that hard work. Our public support
has been really building, and we've got some real momentum
(01:19):
going into this campral I.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
You can understand though, why this question keeps being asked
because the last election you lost, and normally losers don't
keep their jobs.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Yeah, of course, and it's a question that I asked
myself after the last elections. So as every political leader
should in those circumstances, I jump over from Jinda sort
of at the last minute. It really only didn't have
that long in the job, and I knew that it
was going to be a tough election where we'd already
lost a lot of popularity, a lot of support by
the time I took over as leader. You know, I'm
(01:49):
determined to have another go at it. I'm determined to
win the next election, and I, frankly, having lost the
last election, having had this three years in opposition to
really regroup and rethink. I think I'll be a much
less better leader because of that.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Okay, Now, from the last pose we had at the
end of last year, we saw it seems obvious that
to become government. You're going to have to work with
Winston Peters again. Now is that possible from your side?
And do you think he'd be into it?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I think it's too far too early to be making
those kind of predictions. If you'd asked me a year ago,
you know where we're at the polls, we would have
been talking about potentially, you know, a three or a
fourway a government that Labor would be part of. Now
it's down to probably being able to work with just
two just one other party. You know, a two way
government is a distinct possibility for Labor coming out the
(02:37):
other side of this election. So I'm really encouraged by
that growth and support, but we've got to work hard
over the coming year to build on that.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
You just said you'd have to work with one other party,
which obviously suggests that you don't think the Maori Party
will exist at the end of this year.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well, our goal is to win all of those seats
this year. The Malory Party has been in no fit
shape to be part of any kind of constructive conversation
about what a future government might look like, and I
don't think they're going to.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Be Well, how do you think Maori perceived that though.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well we've seen to collapse in their support. And you
know the feedback that we're getting from the Madi electrics,
you know, the bearing in mind we won the party
vote and all of those Maji electrics last time. The
feedback we're getting is that we will probably get both
votes from most of those people in the coming election.
So we're only to win both the seat and the
party vote.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
But here's the thing though. Of course, because you've won
the party vote, you've got your list MPs. But of
course you've got some other MPs because the Maori Party
won the electorate votes. If there is no Maori Party,
you might end out losing the overhang. O.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Well, the opening, you know, can happen under MMP, and
it's a legitimate outcome under MP. But I don't think
it's something you should aim for because it is a
bit of a distortion of the system. So our goal
clearly is to get more seats than any other party,
put ourselves in the strongest possible position to form the government.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Now, you managed to do what many labor leaders have
not been able to do, and you've survived to capital gains,
tax roll out. Now did you get this right, And
I want to know why you ring fence the revenue
to primary healthcare. Was it the most politically safe option,
because you know, you might have got more buy in
if you said, look, there's going to be a CGT.
That's going to mean more infrastructure. So in the hindsight,
(04:17):
was universal free GP visits the right place to put
that revenue?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Well, I think a simple targeted capital gains tax wins
on two funds. Well, people can see that it's time,
it's necessary. You know, we've got to move our focus
away from just constant investment and speculative rental property and
get people investing in productive businesses and productive funds that
are actually going to help us to create good jobs
and grow our economy. But the second win is people
(04:43):
can see that there's a crisis in our health system.
We've got this huge aging population that's putting more and
more pressure on our health system. We've got to pay
for that somehow. And so a simple targeted capital gains tax,
you know, kills two birds with one stone. It allows
us to change the economy and it helps us to
fix the health system.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
So, Chris, the common argument of the right leaning voter
is that if you guys, come back and you're going
to put us further into so is our international credit
rating and debt repayments something at the front of your mind.
What debt level are you comfortable with? And are we
really in the stook that national keeps on saying we are.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
It's part of the right wing fairytail. They tell themselves
that labor governments don't manage the economy national only national
governments know how to manage the economy. The fact actually
tell a different story. If you look at the credit
ratings agencies. The last time we were in government, we
actually got a credit ratings upgrade. You know, our credit
rating got better under a labor government. In twenty twenty three,
(05:39):
they actually gave our management of the COVID response a
big tick. They said that we've managed the economy responsibly,
we'd kept the economy out of recession. This, you know,
the current economic situation that we're in a create creature
of this government. They chose to cut taxes and create
a structural deficit, despite saying to New Zealanders that the
text cuts wouldn't create a deficit. That's exactly what they've done.
(06:02):
And they've taken forecasts of economic growth which they inherited
from us, and they've turned them into a recession.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
So you're perfectly happy to borrow more.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Well, I haven't said that. I've said that will responsibly
manage the economy and that's what we did last time.
It's what we will do next time. If you look
at the probably the best finance minister in New Zealand
has seen in my lifetime. They're the only finance minister
to have run surpluses every year, to have paid off
all government debt. It was Michael Cullen and it was
a labor government that did it.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And god rest is sold. Hey that last general election,
the problem you had was Auckland, and you had a
problem with Auckland because of the long COVID lockdowns. Have
you got a strategy to win back the trust of Aucklanders.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
We've seen a lot of increase in support in Auckland.
You know, we've been in our own poll. Towards the
end of last year we were overtaken the National Party,
which is the first time in about four and four
four and a half years I think we'd overtaken them,
and that was becoming a consistent trend Towards the end
of last year, so we'll be aiming to do that
this year. I've spent a lot of time on the
ground in Auckland talking about what they care about. You know,
(07:04):
Aucklanders have told us the same as other people around
the country, they want to see us focused jobs, health, homes,
costs of living. Those are the core issues that have
mattered to them. So that's what all we campaigning.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
On now, talking about coalitions. You got engaged to your partner, Tony.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I that was That was definitely one of the highlights.
So if you take it outside of the workfront, that
was definitely more highlight.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
For I bet. I bet. Was there a long negotiation process.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
No, No, this was a remarkably quick negotiation. Actually it
was all over and done within a few minutes on
a park beach at the Botanical Gardens.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Very good. And she's ready to step up, you know,
because of the public scrutiny that comes with your job
and your the job you would prefer to have. She's
ready for that sort of pressure.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean she we sort of started seeing
each other during the brief period that I was primeters
the last time, and so I think although we did
keep our relationship, you know, quiet during that time. We
became public about that after the election, but she's she's
become accustomed to the scrutiny that goes with these public jobs.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Very good. And the wedding plans pre or post election.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
In a post election, we've got to get the election
campaign out of the way first. We're looking at next
summer very nice.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
And speaking of this summer, what do the hipkinsers do
for summer?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
We've got a beat house on the Company Coast, a
lot of quite a lot of gardening, a bit of
time at the beach, some quality time with the kids,
some bike rides, some you know, it's just sort of
hanging out on building sea and castles and doing all
of those sorts of good summer recreational activities.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Are our summer holidays too long? As Simon Bridges said, No.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
No, not at all. I think it's fantastic here. We
get a decent breakover the summer, and it's good to
you know, you can take a breakover summer knowing that
everyone else is taking a breakover summer, so you don't
have to feel guilty about them.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
All right, Chris, in my regards to Tony, thank you
for your time today on the summer breakfast and enjoy
your summer, and.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
We are everybody listening a happy summer as well.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
For more from News Talks b listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iart Radio
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