October 29, 2024 • 41 mins
TW* This content discusses topics such as addiction and mental distress.
In this episode Jazz talks to Jonathan Clark husband of Tiktok personality Kat Clark, about his battle with addiction and how addressing the turmoil in his life lead him to make a positive change.
Hope Is Real is a Podcast to help you feel a little less alone, a bit more inspired, and a lot more hopeful. Join Jazz Thornton every week as she speaks to empowering and inspiring people from around the world and shares their stories to normalise the way we talk about mental health in society.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The ZM Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I didn't think I had a problem.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
I just thought I was able to drink more than
most people and say using drugs.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
The destructive path that I've been.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
On and the things that I'd done were always coming
back to haunt me in my mind.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
That was like the first time that someone had pointed
out that I had a problem and I just looked back.
I was like, jeez, am I really that bad?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of Hope Israel
the Podcast, Season three. I cannot believe that we are here,
that we get to do yet another season of incredible,
inspiring stories from people all around the world. It's honestly
such an honor and a privilege. So thank you guys
for listening. First of all, I'm so stoked that you're
here and that you're here for today's episode. Now, if
(00:46):
you're on TikTok, you would have absolutely seen this family,
especially Australia New Zealand side Kat and Jonathan Clark, Deja Clark,
Letitia Clark, the Clark family in general have blow and
up all over our social media feeds. And I was
lucky enough a few years ago to meet Kat and
(01:07):
Dasia and Letitia and Jonathan at the TikTok Awards where
Cat one Creator of the Year, I won TikTok for
Good and ever since we've been able to kind of
hang out and chat and kind of share stories around
I guess what our lives have become like. Kat has
been very open about her story with the things that
she kind of struggled through, and she was on the
(01:28):
last season of this podcast. But today I'm really really
excited for you guys to hear for potentially one of
the first times that he's really spoken about this Jonathan story. Jonathan,
I guess, is kind of more in the background of
a lot of these videos. He's the man behind the business.
He kind of keeps that family going, and I've always
looked at him with complete and utter awe at the
(01:51):
way that he's been able to really keep this family together,
and as someone who grew up kind of without that
father figure in my life, seeing you know, a lot
of people will know that he's not Letitia's biological father,
but that he came in and he chose to be
that father role and kind of step into a role
where Letitia's biological father hadn't been, and he is a
(02:15):
pillar of strength, and that has not come without his struggles.
He has fought a very long, tough battle with addiction,
which he has been so transparent and so honest about
and really kind of delves into I guess the realities
of what it was to be living like that, the
reality of, you know, kind of mixing it of this
(02:36):
was actually like a good time and I didn't know
at the time that I was doing anything wrong. What
was his turning point? What was it that made him
decide to go sober? Changes life around, and I guess
become the person that he is today. So Jonathan's story
is coming up right after this. Jonathan, Welcome to Hopah's
(02:58):
All the podcast. First of all, how are you doing.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I'm doing well. Thank you for having me, of.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Course, I'm really excited to have you. I remember sitting
down with you Kat and Daisia while you guys were
in New Zealand. We had brunch somewhere and I think
it was Koee and beginning to hear like the tiniest
little snippet of your story and being like, I haven't
heard this before, Like I think you've You've talked about
(03:23):
it so briefly online and just hearing kind of the
very brief version that I heard, and seeing the person
that you are now and the father that you are,
and just the way that you and your family are
absolutely bossing the businesses, and obviously your whole family just
kind of rocketed to this crazy level of fame. But
(03:44):
your story is one that I know, especially as a man,
is now it's so hopeful, and I think it's so
incredible to see this change, and so I'm so glad
that we could have this conversation and to have you
sharing this. So I'd love to literally go all the
way back to the beginning. What was your childhood like?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Ooh, so childhood was I always just thought my childhood
was just a normal, normal childhood. Grew up in a
immigrant family, so I was born in South Africa. My
parents obviously were born there as well. We came here
in the early eighties. I was two years old, and yeah,
(04:25):
just grew up in a small, underprivileged sort of upbringing.
My parents were working class, worked twelve forteen hours a day,
and yeah, they worked hard.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
To send me to a private Catholic school and grew
up in that sort of environment.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
And I had a younger brother who was who was
three years younger than me, So it was just us
two pretty much, and my parents went around a lot.
They were working a lot, so we learned to fend
for ourselves pretty early. So yeah, that was that's basically
my childhood were.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, I love it, and I think obviously you've there's been.
I think it was a video I actually saw about
Christmas time that you were doing it. It may have
been like two years ago, I think where you were
saying how that used to be such a big time
for you and trying to say no. In regards to
your your addiction story, I would love to know where
(05:20):
where did that start for you? Like where did it
go from? Was it ever like something that was socially
and then it just turned into addiction? Do you have
like a key moment as to where that started.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I always think so.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
I always think I had that tendency for addiction, And
if I think back to my early times of starting
to use alcohol and things like that, I always I
think that it was always there where it sort of
turned was where it became a part of my time
my life, where it was where it turned tumultuous. But
I always think that I often always think that it
(05:57):
was there from the from the very beginning. I started
drinking at a very early age. My mother is an alcoholic,
her sister is an alcoholic. My grandfather is an alcoholic.
So my grandfather and my mom's sister both died of alcoholism.
My mother's had a stroke, and I had a lot
(06:18):
of difficulties around that. I would say my mom's marriage.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Broke up because of her alcohol. Alcoholism and alcohol sort.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Of during my younger years, and family life was just
always a normal thing, and my parents drank a lot.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
They drank often.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
It was just part of the part of the landscape.
So for me, drinking was just a normal thing that
I did, and then that sort of graduated to other
illicit substances later on. So I went into smoking cannabis, marijuana, weed,
whatever you want to call it, very early, I would say,
in my late teenage years, see sixteen, fifteen, sixteen, and
(07:03):
then that became a daily thing. From about seventeen eighteen
onwards until my early thirties, it would have been pretty
much almost every day, and then.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
That grade you graduated from there into you know, okain.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I holy of other things that pretty much I had.
I had the I had the attitude that I would
try anything as long as I.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Didn't have to inject it.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
And for me, it was just a normal thing, just
having fun and doing what I wanted to do. And
I never really saw it as a problem or that
it was something that was affecting my life until it
Until you know, you reach that sort of precipice where
everything's falling apart and the rock bottom as most people
call it.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
What do you think you were if you can remember
like your behavior was like during that time, Like what
kind of person were you to be around?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
So I think it's really a yin and yang.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So like one part of.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
You is the normal, the part of you that's just
who you are, like loving, caring, nurturing, empathetic and really
wanting to excel in life and take opportunities and do
the most that you can, what I think is inherent
in most human beings, just.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Wanting to thrive and survive and do well.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
But then on the other hand is the dark side
where and a lot of the time it's the side
that you hide from from everyone, and it's the selfish
ego driven just really.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Wanting to get what you need to get to get
your fixed or.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
To get you know, the fun or whatever you want
to call it, and at the same time trying to
still be that caring, loving, nurturing human being that wants
to strive and survive and do well and succeed in
life at the same time.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So, yeah, I think if you knew me, you.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Would you would you would think, you know, I'm a
I'm a.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Normal person, just loving life, doing what I can do
my best.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
But then if you know, if you went out with me,
you saw me, you know, you're one of those people
that hung around with me who did the other things, you.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Would see that I had that other side in.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Me as well. And I could be violent, I could
be angry, I could be selfish, I could be Yeah,
anything you wanted under the sun, anything you can think of.
I was.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
I could be that at the same time.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
So it's I think I'm part of a couple of fellowships.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
And I think we call it the masks.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
We wear many masks depending on which environment we're in,
and we're social chameleons. We just adapt to the situation
that we're in there. If we're in if we're around
those people that we need to be a certain person
who can become that person pretty quickly and survive in
that environment and just not only survive, but excel in
the bad things and also the good things.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Do you think there's like a moment that you can
remember where it switched from like, oh, this is just
something that I'm doing, like drinking socially or whatever it
may be, to this is a problem. Was there a
moment that they sweached or was it kind of always
from the start you knew that it was a problem.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I didn't think I had a problem. I just thought
that I.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Was going to continue living my life like this and
succeed in the best way that I knew. And you know,
drinking was just normal to me. I just I was
able to drink. I just thought I was able to
drink more than most people. I liked to drink more
than most people. And same with same with using using drugs.
I was I was able to consume a lot and
(10:38):
just function and do my stuff. The catalyst for me
was I went through maybe a ten year period where
I thought I had depression, And when I think look
back at it, I probably did have depression, but it
was introduced by a lot of other things in my life,
and I went to different counselors, shrink psychologists, anything you
(11:01):
can think of under the sun, when on many different
treatment plans and all the rest of it.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
And then one day I went to a psychiatrist.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
So I wanted to be medicated for the depression that
I did I had, and I thought, the only way
to do this is to go see a psychiatrist subste
because they can prescribe medicine. And I sat down with
him and we went through the evaluation, and he asked
you the normal questions, how often do you drink, do.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
You use drugs, how often do you use them, etc.
Et cetera.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
And by this point I was getting to a point
of my life where things were really started to fall apart.
And I'd gone to counselors and those types of people
before psychologists, and I would try and just tell them
what I thought they wanted to hear or what would
get me the help that I needed, and I wouldn't really.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Tell them the whole story.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
And this time I thought, well, up until now, it
hasn't worked and I haven't got the help that I needed.
I'm just going to tell this guy, like playing symbol,
exactly how it is and he was really nice, like
he gave that aura of accepting and he had seen
it all, just just lay it all out for me.
So I laid it all on the table. And the
(12:12):
first thing he says said, before I treat you, have
you ever thought of going into a rehab or detoxing?
And that really just blew me away. That was like
the first time that someone had said to me that,
Like I pointed out that I had a problem, and
I just thought back, I was like, geez am I
really that bad?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Do I really need to go?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Because at that point I was thought, there's no way
I need to go to a rehab or a detox
or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
And yeah, when he said that, that was definitely the
catalyst for me.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
From that day on, I researched and I went to
try and get into a rehab and due to detox
because I wanted to get the help that I needed
because my marriage is falling apart, my life is sort
of falling apart, and I just wanted to get the
help that I needed.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
That was definitely because for me, once you.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Said that, it was like a briek hitting in the face.
It was like, holy shit, do I really have a problem.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Wow, it's crazy that it can go for so long.
And I've talked to a couple of people on this
podcast now that have battle with addiction and, like you said,
just kind of believing that you don't have a problem,
like this is just the way that you're living life.
And I think it's really interesting that you talk about
the link with that to depression because a lot of
the stuff that I see in the system here in
(13:28):
New Zealand, and I'm pretty sure it's a reflected kind
of globally, is that a lot of the times they
don't treat both. So if you've got mental like if
you're struggling with mental illness and then you have addiction,
they'll choose one to treat, but often they do coincide.
And I think especially like did you find or do
you think that the drug part for you was just
(13:51):
having fun or do you think there was part of
it that was trying to numb anything else that you
were feeling, or like what do you think that was
for you?
Speaker 3 (14:00):
So when I was actually in my addiction, I didn't
think that it was I thought it was just fun.
It was just I knew that I knew that I
was at a point where I needed certain things to
function the way that I do.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I needed to because.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
When I didn't have them for a certain period of time,
I turned into a different person and nasty, selfish, so seeking,
bigotistical type person.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
And yeah, for me, I just thought that was normal.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
But when I think back, and once I've gone through,
you know, different treatments I've I was trying to quieten
the voices in my head. So I would have a
really overactive head and I would lay in bed and
just think and really destroy my own self esteem with
my own thoughts, just like how much of a piece
(14:45):
of shit are you?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
How could you have done that? What you know and
all that.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
You know, what's going to happen, if this happens, and
all these sorts of thoughts and voices that go inside
your head. And for me, the only way to quieten
those was to to you and to get out of
that sort of state. So I would need to use
to get to sleep, I would need to use to
go out party and have fun. I would often need
(15:09):
to use to go to work. All those sorts of
things that got to that point where it was those things,
but a lot of it. But I think when I
think back. It was it was the destructive path that
I'd been on, and the things that I'd done were
always coming back to haunt me in my mind, and
I didn't want to have to deal with them face on.
I wanted to just master them and get those thoughts
out of my head so that I could get to sleep.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
And get on with my day the next day. Does
that make sense?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, yeah, it does. How long between that psychiatrists appointment
that you were talking about and then your decision to
go sober? What was the time frame between.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
There so the next Like, as soon as I got
home that day that week, I had a chat to
my wife to cat and I think she was sort
of relieved.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
That I'd come to that realization.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
And it was pretty much straight away I was ringing
rehab Steve toxes around the Gold Coast trying to get admitted.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
We weren't in.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
A financial position where I could afford to go to one.
That was that I had to pay a lot because
a lot of them are quite expensive, and there are
a few around the Gold Coast that will take you
in depending on your depending on how sick you are
and their situation and if they've got any free beds
or available space and at that so I did pretty
much went into that straight away. I tried to get
(16:30):
into one like immediately.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Wow. And that process for you going into rehab, what
was that experience like, because that would have been was
it kind of cold turkey for you to go from?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, well I didn't actually get into one.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
So at the time there was none available, and on
the Gold Coast there was one.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
They said there might be a bedcoming available in like
a month's time or a few weeks time.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
And I said, Okay, I don't want to wait that long.
I want to because for me, waiting I would have
to use to get to that point of going in.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
That's in my mind, that's what it was.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And it was like, I'm in the headspace now where
I want to stop and I want to get help
right away. So I don't want to wait, and we
couldn't afford to do it, so what we just decided
to do it at home. So I just took some
time off work and just went through that pull tap
detox period at home and I had a friend, met
(17:32):
a friend And when I think about it, was like
divine sort of intervention or however you want to look
at it. I've met a friend about say, six to
twelve months before that time, and we'd been out drinking
and partying, and he wasn't drinking, he wasn't doing any.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Sorts of that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
But he was with us and we were just you know,
being crazy, partying, drinking, doing whatever we did when we
went out, and he wasn't doing any of that. But
he was a great time with us, and I exchanged
and others with him, and we became friends.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
And he sort of alluded.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
To the fact that he was that he'd done that before,
but he doesn't do it anymore, and all that sorts
of stuff. And I believe in passing. You mentioned like,
you know, if you ever want to talk or you
ever want any advice on what I do or how
I did it, let me know. And I didn't think
anything of it, left it. But then when I couldn't
get into a rehab, I rang him up and I said,
(18:26):
he remember when I when we spoke that time, I said,
I think I'm ready to do what I need to do.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
What do you suggest?
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Do you have any do you have any advice to me? Basically,
and he just took me under. You said meet me
at this place tomorrow and will we can get started,
So that.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
The fact that you were able to do that without
going to rehab is phenomenal and also shows that lack
of support that was around, the availability that was around
for you to not be able to go and when
you finally went, I need help and I can't do
it like this anymore. I'm so thankful that you had
that friend. And I think that really shows like just
(19:09):
the impact and the power of one person and their
ability to help kind of change the direction of your life.
And obviously you have to be in the position to
be ready to do that, and you were, and I
would love to know and kind of all of this.
How old were you when you met Kat?
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I was, jeez, two thousand and five, so I was
twenty three.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Oh my gosh, how did you guys meet just.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Turn twenty three? At a pub?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
It was R and B Night And we used to
go to this pub before we went out to the city,
usually to go clubbing for like pre drinks, and there
was R and B night and we just used to
just go there, have you know, five or six drinks,
get warmed up, and then catch a cab into town
because Obviously, clubs didn't get really good until late late
(19:59):
that night. So yeah, Kat was there that night, and yeah,
I was having this back when you could smoke in
the pub.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Both we both.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Used to smoke, and I was having a cigarette and
I saw her from across the room and she came,
like walked all the way over and asked me for
a lighter. And yeah, I saw a walk past like
five other people who were smoking, and I was like, well,
she could have asked any one of those people for
a lighter, so she.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Must like me.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
And she grabbed I lit her cigarette, and then before
she left, she said, if you want to dance, come
and see me. So that was it.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Well that's really cute. If you want to dance, come
and see me. Ah yeah please. And obviously you guys
then you started data. How long after that did you
start seeing each other?
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Pretty much straight away, So I didn't go out clubbing
that night. The rest of my friends went, and I
stayed at the pub and danced with Kat and got
to know where. I got a number, got to know
her friends who she was there with, and yeah, I
think the next day I texted her and yeah, we went.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Out for a date after that.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Then there was another date where she said she had
to tell me something and that's when she told me
that she had Letitia.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And yeah, we've we moved in like with.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Each other about three months after that and we haven't
been separated since.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Dang three months. And you guys, how many years have
been now since you've been together?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Seventeen? No, so nineteen together, was seventeen married?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Oh my gosh, that's that's a really cute story. It
kind of feels like it was like a little bit
of a love at first sight situation. Do you feel
like that's what it was?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:39):
It was.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah. What was your response when you found out that
she had a kid?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I was actually relieved because I thought she was going
to tell me something really bad, like she couldn't be
with me because she was married, or she had a
boyfriend or.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I don't know that.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
There was all the million things I were going to
through my mind, but none of them were that she's
got a child. And to be honest, I'd always when
I was a kid, I always wanted to be a dad.
And when she said that, I was like, my response,
I was like, Oh, is that is that all coool?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
And I was like I was actually really happy that
she had.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
A child and met Tisha and fell in love with
her and sort of became an instant father, which was
pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
How what was Latitia when you meet her?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Two?
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Oh my gosh, oh baby. One of the things that
I've really really loved about, you know, slowly getting to
know your family. And I think the first time I
meet you guys was the Tech Talk Awards. However, it
was actually on Dage's birthday. I think it was the
first time I meet you, and I'd been with Kat
and Latitia the day before. I think it was her
birthday at the awards.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Two years ago.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
I think it was, yeah, And I just remember like
watching you guys as a family now and seeing specifically
your relationship with Letitia. It's just so it's so incredible
because like, statistically here, I don't know what the stats
are in Australia, but in New Zealand there's two hundred
and seventy thousand families living in a fatherless home. And
(23:11):
I think there's just so much hurt and so much
pain for these kids that are growing up in these situations,
and that kind of abandonment that can come up in
those feelings of like there's something wrong with me and
that's why they left, and to see you step into
this role and also like kind of break some of
(23:33):
the bad stigmas that are in around like step dads.
Obviously you are who dad now, but like you know,
there's a lot of there's some negative stigmas that can
come with that. But every time that I see you,
guys are just I'm so happy to see that you're
such a role model and evidence as well that one
men can be good but too how much having a
(23:57):
father figure to step in can also kind of help
with pain that your own met father may have caused.
And so it's been really really cool to see that.
And obviously then a few years later you had another child.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah, it was five years after I met Kat. We
had Yeah, five years after we met had Dasia. So yeah,
Kat actually didn't want any more kids when I met her,
and I was actually I had come to a point
where I was content with that, because there was I
wasn't I try to convince her that, you know, I
wanted to have another child. I really wanted a son.
(24:37):
And yeah, there was a sort of a catalyst that's
another story, and what sort of changed cat's mind to
have Desiah and then yeah, we ended up having Desia
five years later.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
So during this time, if I've got my maths correct,
is this when you were you were still struggling with
your addiction At that time, I was.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
But like you call it, a functioning addict, like I
was still okay, I wasn't. It wasn't destroying my life
and it wasn't detrimental because I think at that time
I was still young and I was still you know,
making having small successes and small wings in my life
that there wasn't There wasn't enough bad things happening for
(25:23):
me to take a step back and go, hey, they
made an issue here. For me, I was just having
fun and I like to have a bit more fun
than most people, and that that was the end of
it for me.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Well, your kids are part of the reason that you
wanted to get sober.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
It probably sounds really selfish, but they weren't.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
And it really has to be for any addict to
want to stop, it really has to be a selfish thing.
It really has to be one hundred percent for them,
because if it was for them, I would have done
it a long time before ictually did it. And you know,
we will always say that you have to be selfish
(26:06):
to be selfless, like I had to put myself first,
And yeah, it sounds bad, but it wasn't. They weren't
the reason that I wanted to stop because, like I said,
I didn't think that I had an issue, and when
it came down to everything falling a part of my
life that again, they weren't the catalyst. So it as
(26:27):
bad as it was. That that's just how bad addiction is.
It's like you don't really give it. You don't really
give a crap about what you're doing to other people's lives,
and they can push you and talk to you and
screaming you and want you to do whatever they want
you to do to try and stop and change your
life around. But until you come to the realization yourself
and want to actually change yourself because of you and
(26:49):
the turmoil that's going on with inside yourself, then there's
no change that could be made.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Do you think that your experiences have impacted the way
that your parent now, Like do you feel you're a
lot more aware of like that path being like something
that you're trying to steal your kids away from, or
like does it impact at all your parenting.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, definitely. So after I got clean and sober.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, it going through that process, it really opened my
eyes to watch out for the telltale signs and what
and just to be aware of when a certain person
is going down that path. And it's made me aware
of not just in my parenting, but just in life
in general. I can see, I can see it within
certain people, but I don't obviously know because of what
(27:36):
I went through, not on how to approach that with
certain people. I've Yeah, it's it's made me just more
aware on what to look out for in my kids.
And it's sort of I've always had the the opinion
not to try and hide the greediness of that sort
of stuff with your kids, and not to try and
(27:58):
sugarcoat or shield them too much away from drugs and
alcohol and white people use them and why it's such
an acceptable part of society and why people go down
that path. So I've always been really open, like I've
always said to my kids that you know, drugs and alcohol,
it feels great, So that's why people that's why people
start to do it. They don't if it felt like crap,
(28:20):
people wouldn't get into get into addiction. They wouldn't keep using,
they wouldn't be buying alcohol every.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Every weekend, and they wouldn't sell it in the shops.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
It feels great in the beginning, and I've said that
to them because what I didn't want and what sort
of happened to me is that I was always told you,
this is bad, that's bad, don't do this, don't do that,
whether it came to drug, sex, alcohol, any sort of
taboo type subjects. And then when I inevitably ended up
trying these things, I was like, well, that's not right,
(28:52):
this is great. What are they talking about?
Speaker 1 (28:54):
You know?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And then you feel betrayed and you feel like, oh,
what do they You know?
Speaker 3 (28:58):
This is billy, Like they don't know what they're talking about,
and then you just stop listening to those people in
your life.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
So I didn't want to. I didn't want that to
happen to my kids.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
You don't want to tell them that this is bad
and that's going to feel like crap, and et cetera,
et cetera. I just wanted to be open and honest
and say, hey, if you end up trying this, you're
going to you're probably going to love it. You're probably
going to enjoy it, but this is what can happen,
and this is what that can lead to, et cetera,
et cetera, Because I don't think there's a way you
can really ultimately stop anyone from doing anything, because if
(29:29):
someone really wants to do something, or they get into
a situation where they're going to try something, then they're
going to give it a go. So I think giving
them an honest opinion on what that reaction is going
to be like, so then when they do try they're like, oh,
I feel great.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
This is what dad said. He said, it's going to
feel great.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah. I really like that you're having those conversations so honestly,
because I feel like a lot of the times parents
are so afraid to have those conversations because they think
they're going to plant the idea. But like you said,
like they're going to grow up and eventually they're going
to probably try that things. And so the fact that
you've had that honest conversation is really great. And obviously
your lives kind of blew up, like everything exploded for
(30:10):
your family with social media and kind of suddenly all
these eyes were on you or on your family. How
did how how did you guys manage that as as
it started to really kind of kick off for you
because obviously you went from being kind of this normal
family to do all these eyeballs and now on you
all the time.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, I get this.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
I get asked this a little bit, and I really
I don't know how we manage it. I think I
think by having the experiences that we've had throughout our
life and having the turmoil and having been in the
depths of really tough situations in our lives and coming
through them.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
You know, we've had a.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Lot of judgment and a lot of people, you know,
look at look at us when we were young and
think that we were stupid and we did know what
we were doing, and we've always had to stick together
and just.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Go and move forward.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Anyway. Cat and I've always had a similar sort of
thrife for success, but really wanted to be successful in
our lives and really wanted to be wealthy and build
wealth for our family and really have a successful life
and show our kids a life that we were never
able to have. So, you know, having a lot of judgment,
you know, we would you know, Kat was a single month.
(31:29):
She had a lot of judgment before I ever met her,
and she overcame a lot of that sort of stuff,
get an abusive, an abusive relationship. You know, I left
home when I was sixteen, seventeen years old. You know
I was doing things that you know, people were looking
at me and saying, you know, you're never going around
to anything. You know, you're doing the wrong things, et cetera.
We got married when we were in our early twenties.
(31:50):
Everyone told us, you know, it's not going to last.
You know, we've went through so many different stages. We
started a business when we were in our mid twenties.
You quit my job, started a business. You know, Kat
came home from work and was working her own businesses
and things like that, and people are telling us financially security,
you should be doing this, you should be doing that. So
(32:10):
we've been through a lot of that sort of judgment
and people looking at us thinking that we're crazy if
we don't know what we're doing. So I think that's
built a bit of a strong foundation for coming into
a bit of a linelight phase of our life now
where those sort of things don't phase us, and we've
got a lot of morals and an outlook on life
(32:30):
that we don't, it's sort of it doesn't penetrate. Does
that make sense?
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, And I also think that you can see that
just through your family unit as well, and how strong
you guys are like that when things are heading you're
just all in it together, which I think doesn't often happen.
When people kind of blow up, it might just be
them individually and not their whole family. And so to
see you guys kind of be so tight and how
(32:57):
all these life experiences, I think if you hadn't had those,
all of that hate and all of the other stuff,
Like I know, for me, I would just sit there
and bare my eyes out all the time if I
hadn't had the life experiences that I'd have. So, you know,
it feels like it kind of set us up for
having people critique everything that you do. And obviously, you
guys then win in and launched your business Collade, which
(33:19):
congratulations it's been I see it everywhere all over my
for you page all the time, and it's been so
cool to see the success of that and of your
family in general. And I would I would love to
know what advice that you would have for I'm going
to go two different groups of people. Firstly, for people
that are in the middle of addiction and are struggling
(33:43):
with that, what would you say to them.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
It's hard because people that are in the middle of
the middle of addiction probably unaware that they haven't is
have a problem. Well, what I would say is that
when you do get to a point where you do well,
you do think that you have an issue, seize that
moment and don't let it pass and try and get
help as soon as you can. Try and find someone
(34:09):
who has done what you want to do. Don't go
to someone who who has lived a sheltered, proper life
and hasn't experienced that. I felt the most help that
I got was when I went into the rooms of
the fellowships and sat next to people who have been
through exactly what I've been through, have felt the things
that I've felt, have had the desires and the wants,
(34:31):
and all those in a turmoil that I've that I
went through, and then have beat their addiction and now
I'm living in complete sobriety and having a successful life
with all the blessed things that come with that. Once
I sat in those rooms and listened to those people
and spotted all the similarities that I had with them,
(34:51):
then I was open to getting the help that I needed.
So yeah, I would say, just to seek out the
fellowships that respond to whatever addiction that you're in, and
just do the work getting there, and do the work.
Look for the similarities. Don't sit in those rooms and
look forward the differences. Don't listen to their stories and go, oh, well,
I never did that, I never injected that drug, or
(35:13):
I never did that to my parents or etc. Listen
to the similarities and when they tell their stories and go, hey,
that sounds a little bit of what I was going
through or I've done that or I s felt like that,
and grab onto those similarities and then just do the work.
Do exactly what they have done to get where they
have because it's a system and it works, and you
can have an amazing life if you can get through
(35:36):
that and get through the work.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
And you're obviously your evidence of that and your life
is evidence of that, which is why I'm so thankful
that you're willing to tell the story, because I think
you just stand as proof that if you can have
those conversations and you can get to that point of
accepting I need to get help that things can change.
And the second group of people that would love for
(35:59):
you to speak to is people that have loved ones
that are struggling with addiction and they just don't know
what to do. They don't know what to say, they
don't know what would you say to them.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
That's a really tough one because I still struggle with
that myself, even though I've been through it myself.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
It's probably one of the hardest things that that you
have to deal with. So I would say to really
protect yourself because you can't do anything. Nothing, nothing you say,
is going to make that person change. All you can
(36:38):
do is be in their life as much as you
can to the point that it's not going to affect
your family and your well being. But then just put
up those boundaries and really look after yourself first, like
be selfish in that situation and don't keep going back
to get beaten down, because that person needs to make
the decision and to get to help themselves. No matter
(37:00):
what you say, and no matter what you do, it's
not gonna it's not going to help them. And then
the second thing was just to maybe just to keep
make sure that they know that when they are ready
or when they do come to the point that they
need help, that they can come to you and rely
on you to help them.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Get the help. That's probably all you can do.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
It it's pretty tough to have I loved one in
that situation. And they are also fellowships that actually help
people who are children, spouses, friends of people in addiction.
So they have a specific program to help you deal
with that situation. Because it sounds easy to stay just
put up a barrier because you know, and don't let
(37:45):
them into your life or just protect yourself. But some
people are in a situation where that that's just not possible.
They have to be in the house, they have to
be in the marriage, or they have to be in
the country, or you know, there's so many different situations
where they just can't get out of that situation. So
there are fellowships that deal with those specific situations, and
I'd just say this, go and go to those people.
(38:08):
Go to those fellowships, and just the same as any
other addiction fellowship, there's work to do in those because
it's tough. So if you really wanted to get the help,
just get in there, get the work done, and you
can have an amazing life as well.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, I think that's thank you for saying that. I
think it's really important for people to hear. And I
mean myself, I've got a lot of my very close
loved ones are struggling with addiction and have struggled with addiction,
and I think it's really hard to step outside of
like a superhero complex. To put it in a simple
term of going like I have to be the one
(38:44):
to save them. I have to like and you can't.
And I think everything that you've said and that really
sums it up of like, it wasn't anything else externally
or any other people that made you make that decision
to go and get so, but that had to come
from you. And I think that's really helpful for people
to know that they like their job is to be there,
(39:06):
to love them, to point them in the right direction
as much as their abilities allow them to, but that
at the end of the day, that decision is with
that person. And just to close out the last question
that I want to ask you, I asked just everyone
that comes on obviously this podcast is called Hope is Real,
And I would love to know what the word hope
means to you.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Oh, hope to me means that's a tough one. It's
a really it's a good question whether there's.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
A tough one.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Hope to me means.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Never giving up and having the faith and confidencing yourself
that you can do whatever you want with your life
and you can overcome whenever you want to overcome, and
that you have of the power within you to be
the person that you want to be or that you
aspire to be.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
I love that. That's really cool. Hey, thank you so
much for taking the time. I know that you guys
are so crazy busy at the moment with all the
twelve million things that you and your family are juggling,
So I really appreciate you taking the time to come
on and to chat through your story. And I know
that it will inspire people, that it will encourage people.
And I also think, just like I said, I know
that you'll have the same impact on other people that
(40:29):
you have on me, even just meeting you and being
around you and knowing that men can be good and
that fathers can be good, because I think that a
lot of the time people can take that for granted
because it's not what a lot of us grow up with.
And so thank you for showing us that that can
be the case. And yeah, again, thank you for taking
the time to come on. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Well that you have it, guys, thank you so much
for staying and for listening to this episode. And like
I've said at the beginning, and I always say, if
any thing in this episode that's been talked about has
brought anything up for you, you feel like you need to
talk to someone, then please remember and know that the
bravest thing that you can do right now is to
talk to someone, is to ask for help, whether that's
(41:13):
from a friend, a family member, or if you don't
know who to talk to, then if you live in Altiola,
here you can call or text one seven three seven
at any time to talk to a trained counselor. Or
if you live overseas, go to dub dub dub dot
the Voices of Hope dot org for a list of
international helplines. Remember that no matter what it is that
you're facing, no matter what it is that you're going through,
(41:35):
that in all things, hope is real and change is possible.
I'll see you guys next week.
The ZM Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I didn't think I had a problem.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
I just thought I was able to drink more than
most people and say using drugs.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
The destructive path that I've been.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
On and the things that I'd done were always coming
back to haunt me in my mind.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
That was like the first time that someone had pointed
out that I had a problem and I just looked back.
I was like, jeez, am I really that bad?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of Hope Israel
the Podcast, Season three. I cannot believe that we are here,
that we get to do yet another season of incredible,
inspiring stories from people all around the world. It's honestly
such an honor and a privilege. So thank you guys
for listening. First of all, I'm so stoked that you're
here and that you're here for today's episode. Now, if
(00:46):
you're on TikTok, you would have absolutely seen this family,
especially Australia New Zealand side Kat and Jonathan Clark, Deja Clark,
Letitia Clark, the Clark family in general have blow and
up all over our social media feeds. And I was
lucky enough a few years ago to meet Kat and
(01:07):
Dasia and Letitia and Jonathan at the TikTok Awards where
Cat one Creator of the Year, I won TikTok for
Good and ever since we've been able to kind of
hang out and chat and kind of share stories around
I guess what our lives have become like. Kat has
been very open about her story with the things that
she kind of struggled through, and she was on the
(01:28):
last season of this podcast. But today I'm really really
excited for you guys to hear for potentially one of
the first times that he's really spoken about this Jonathan story. Jonathan,
I guess, is kind of more in the background of
a lot of these videos. He's the man behind the business.
He kind of keeps that family going, and I've always
looked at him with complete and utter awe at the
(01:51):
way that he's been able to really keep this family together,
and as someone who grew up kind of without that
father figure in my life, seeing you know, a lot
of people will know that he's not Letitia's biological father,
but that he came in and he chose to be
that father role and kind of step into a role
where Letitia's biological father hadn't been, and he is a
(02:15):
pillar of strength, and that has not come without his struggles.
He has fought a very long, tough battle with addiction,
which he has been so transparent and so honest about
and really kind of delves into I guess the realities
of what it was to be living like that, the
reality of, you know, kind of mixing it of this
(02:36):
was actually like a good time and I didn't know
at the time that I was doing anything wrong. What
was his turning point? What was it that made him
decide to go sober? Changes life around, and I guess
become the person that he is today. So Jonathan's story
is coming up right after this. Jonathan, Welcome to Hopah's
(02:58):
All the podcast. First of all, how are you doing.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I'm doing well. Thank you for having me, of.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Course, I'm really excited to have you. I remember sitting
down with you Kat and Daisia while you guys were
in New Zealand. We had brunch somewhere and I think
it was Koee and beginning to hear like the tiniest
little snippet of your story and being like, I haven't
heard this before, Like I think you've You've talked about
(03:23):
it so briefly online and just hearing kind of the
very brief version that I heard, and seeing the person
that you are now and the father that you are,
and just the way that you and your family are
absolutely bossing the businesses, and obviously your whole family just
kind of rocketed to this crazy level of fame. But
(03:44):
your story is one that I know, especially as a man,
is now it's so hopeful, and I think it's so
incredible to see this change, and so I'm so glad
that we could have this conversation and to have you
sharing this. So I'd love to literally go all the
way back to the beginning. What was your childhood like?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Ooh, so childhood was I always just thought my childhood
was just a normal, normal childhood. Grew up in a
immigrant family, so I was born in South Africa. My
parents obviously were born there as well. We came here
in the early eighties. I was two years old, and yeah,
(04:25):
just grew up in a small, underprivileged sort of upbringing.
My parents were working class, worked twelve forteen hours a day,
and yeah, they worked hard.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
To send me to a private Catholic school and grew
up in that sort of environment.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
And I had a younger brother who was who was
three years younger than me, So it was just us
two pretty much, and my parents went around a lot.
They were working a lot, so we learned to fend
for ourselves pretty early. So yeah, that was that's basically
my childhood were.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, I love it, and I think obviously you've there's been.
I think it was a video I actually saw about
Christmas time that you were doing it. It may have
been like two years ago, I think where you were
saying how that used to be such a big time
for you and trying to say no. In regards to
your your addiction story, I would love to know where
(05:20):
where did that start for you? Like where did it
go from? Was it ever like something that was socially
and then it just turned into addiction? Do you have
like a key moment as to where that started.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I always think so.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
I always think I had that tendency for addiction, And
if I think back to my early times of starting
to use alcohol and things like that, I always I
think that it was always there where it sort of
turned was where it became a part of my time
my life, where it was where it turned tumultuous. But
I always think that I often always think that it
(05:57):
was there from the from the very beginning. I started
drinking at a very early age. My mother is an alcoholic,
her sister is an alcoholic. My grandfather is an alcoholic.
So my grandfather and my mom's sister both died of alcoholism.
My mother's had a stroke, and I had a lot
(06:18):
of difficulties around that. I would say my mom's marriage.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Broke up because of her alcohol. Alcoholism and alcohol sort.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Of during my younger years, and family life was just
always a normal thing, and my parents drank a lot.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
They drank often.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
It was just part of the part of the landscape.
So for me, drinking was just a normal thing that
I did, and then that sort of graduated to other
illicit substances later on. So I went into smoking cannabis, marijuana, weed,
whatever you want to call it, very early, I would say,
in my late teenage years, see sixteen, fifteen, sixteen, and
(07:03):
then that became a daily thing. From about seventeen eighteen
onwards until my early thirties, it would have been pretty
much almost every day, and then.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
That grade you graduated from there into you know, okain.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I holy of other things that pretty much I had.
I had the I had the attitude that I would
try anything as long as I.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Didn't have to inject it.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
And for me, it was just a normal thing, just
having fun and doing what I wanted to do. And
I never really saw it as a problem or that
it was something that was affecting my life until it
Until you know, you reach that sort of precipice where
everything's falling apart and the rock bottom as most people
call it.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
What do you think you were if you can remember
like your behavior was like during that time, Like what
kind of person were you to be around?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
So I think it's really a yin and yang.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So like one part of.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
You is the normal, the part of you that's just
who you are, like loving, caring, nurturing, empathetic and really
wanting to excel in life and take opportunities and do
the most that you can, what I think is inherent
in most human beings, just.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Wanting to thrive and survive and do well.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
But then on the other hand is the dark side
where and a lot of the time it's the side
that you hide from from everyone, and it's the selfish
ego driven just really.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Wanting to get what you need to get to get
your fixed or.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
To get you know, the fun or whatever you want
to call it, and at the same time trying to
still be that caring, loving, nurturing human being that wants
to strive and survive and do well and succeed in
life at the same time.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So, yeah, I think if you knew me, you.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Would you would you would think, you know, I'm a
I'm a.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Normal person, just loving life, doing what I can do
my best.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
But then if you know, if you went out with me,
you saw me, you know, you're one of those people
that hung around with me who did the other things, you.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Would see that I had that other side in.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Me as well. And I could be violent, I could
be angry, I could be selfish, I could be Yeah,
anything you wanted under the sun, anything you can think of.
I was.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
I could be that at the same time.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
So it's I think I'm part of a couple of fellowships.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
And I think we call it the masks.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
We wear many masks depending on which environment we're in,
and we're social chameleons. We just adapt to the situation
that we're in there. If we're in if we're around
those people that we need to be a certain person
who can become that person pretty quickly and survive in
that environment and just not only survive, but excel in
the bad things and also the good things.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Do you think there's like a moment that you can
remember where it switched from like, oh, this is just
something that I'm doing, like drinking socially or whatever it
may be, to this is a problem. Was there a
moment that they sweached or was it kind of always
from the start you knew that it was a problem.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I didn't think I had a problem. I just thought
that I.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Was going to continue living my life like this and
succeed in the best way that I knew. And you know,
drinking was just normal to me. I just I was
able to drink. I just thought I was able to
drink more than most people. I liked to drink more
than most people. And same with same with using using drugs.
I was I was able to consume a lot and
(10:38):
just function and do my stuff. The catalyst for me
was I went through maybe a ten year period where
I thought I had depression, And when I think look
back at it, I probably did have depression, but it
was introduced by a lot of other things in my life,
and I went to different counselors, shrink psychologists, anything you
(11:01):
can think of under the sun, when on many different
treatment plans and all the rest of it.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
And then one day I went to a psychiatrist.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
So I wanted to be medicated for the depression that
I did I had, and I thought, the only way
to do this is to go see a psychiatrist subste
because they can prescribe medicine. And I sat down with
him and we went through the evaluation, and he asked
you the normal questions, how often do you drink, do.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
You use drugs, how often do you use them, etc.
Et cetera.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
And by this point I was getting to a point
of my life where things were really started to fall apart.
And I'd gone to counselors and those types of people
before psychologists, and I would try and just tell them
what I thought they wanted to hear or what would
get me the help that I needed, and I wouldn't really.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Tell them the whole story.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
And this time I thought, well, up until now, it
hasn't worked and I haven't got the help that I needed.
I'm just going to tell this guy, like playing symbol,
exactly how it is and he was really nice, like
he gave that aura of accepting and he had seen
it all, just just lay it all out for me.
So I laid it all on the table. And the
(12:12):
first thing he says said, before I treat you, have
you ever thought of going into a rehab or detoxing?
And that really just blew me away. That was like
the first time that someone had said to me that,
Like I pointed out that I had a problem, and
I just thought back, I was like, geez am I
really that bad?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Do I really need to go?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Because at that point I was thought, there's no way
I need to go to a rehab or a detox
or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
And yeah, when he said that, that was definitely the
catalyst for me.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
From that day on, I researched and I went to
try and get into a rehab and due to detox
because I wanted to get the help that I needed
because my marriage is falling apart, my life is sort
of falling apart, and I just wanted to get the
help that I needed.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
That was definitely because for me, once you.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Said that, it was like a briek hitting in the face.
It was like, holy shit, do I really have a problem.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Wow, it's crazy that it can go for so long.
And I've talked to a couple of people on this
podcast now that have battle with addiction and, like you said,
just kind of believing that you don't have a problem,
like this is just the way that you're living life.
And I think it's really interesting that you talk about
the link with that to depression because a lot of
the stuff that I see in the system here in
(13:28):
New Zealand, and I'm pretty sure it's a reflected kind
of globally, is that a lot of the times they
don't treat both. So if you've got mental like if
you're struggling with mental illness and then you have addiction,
they'll choose one to treat, but often they do coincide.
And I think especially like did you find or do
you think that the drug part for you was just
(13:51):
having fun or do you think there was part of
it that was trying to numb anything else that you
were feeling, or like what do you think that was
for you?
Speaker 3 (14:00):
So when I was actually in my addiction, I didn't
think that it was I thought it was just fun.
It was just I knew that I knew that I
was at a point where I needed certain things to
function the way that I do.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I needed to because.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
When I didn't have them for a certain period of time,
I turned into a different person and nasty, selfish, so seeking,
bigotistical type person.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
And yeah, for me, I just thought that was normal.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
But when I think back, and once I've gone through,
you know, different treatments I've I was trying to quieten
the voices in my head. So I would have a
really overactive head and I would lay in bed and
just think and really destroy my own self esteem with
my own thoughts, just like how much of a piece
(14:45):
of shit are you?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
How could you have done that? What you know and
all that.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
You know, what's going to happen, if this happens, and
all these sorts of thoughts and voices that go inside
your head. And for me, the only way to quieten
those was to to you and to get out of
that sort of state. So I would need to use
to get to sleep, I would need to use to
go out party and have fun. I would often need
(15:09):
to use to go to work. All those sorts of
things that got to that point where it was those things,
but a lot of it. But I think when I
think back. It was it was the destructive path that
I'd been on, and the things that I'd done were
always coming back to haunt me in my mind, and
I didn't want to have to deal with them face on.
I wanted to just master them and get those thoughts
out of my head so that I could get to sleep.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
And get on with my day the next day. Does
that make sense?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, yeah, it does. How long between that psychiatrists appointment
that you were talking about and then your decision to
go sober? What was the time frame between.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
There so the next Like, as soon as I got
home that day that week, I had a chat to
my wife to cat and I think she was sort
of relieved.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
That I'd come to that realization.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
And it was pretty much straight away I was ringing
rehab Steve toxes around the Gold Coast trying to get admitted.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
We weren't in.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
A financial position where I could afford to go to one.
That was that I had to pay a lot because
a lot of them are quite expensive, and there are
a few around the Gold Coast that will take you
in depending on your depending on how sick you are
and their situation and if they've got any free beds
or available space and at that so I did pretty
much went into that straight away. I tried to get
(16:30):
into one like immediately.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Wow. And that process for you going into rehab, what
was that experience like, because that would have been was
it kind of cold turkey for you to go from?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, well I didn't actually get into one.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
So at the time there was none available, and on
the Gold Coast there was one.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
They said there might be a bedcoming available in like
a month's time or a few weeks time.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
And I said, Okay, I don't want to wait that long.
I want to because for me, waiting I would have
to use to get to that point of going in.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
That's in my mind, that's what it was.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And it was like, I'm in the headspace now where
I want to stop and I want to get help
right away. So I don't want to wait, and we
couldn't afford to do it, so what we just decided
to do it at home. So I just took some
time off work and just went through that pull tap
detox period at home and I had a friend, met
(17:32):
a friend And when I think about it, was like
divine sort of intervention or however you want to look
at it. I've met a friend about say, six to
twelve months before that time, and we'd been out drinking
and partying, and he wasn't drinking, he wasn't doing any.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Sorts of that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
But he was with us and we were just you know,
being crazy, partying, drinking, doing whatever we did when we
went out, and he wasn't doing any of that. But
he was a great time with us, and I exchanged
and others with him, and we became friends.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
And he sort of alluded.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
To the fact that he was that he'd done that before,
but he doesn't do it anymore, and all that sorts
of stuff. And I believe in passing. You mentioned like,
you know, if you ever want to talk or you
ever want any advice on what I do or how
I did it, let me know. And I didn't think
anything of it, left it. But then when I couldn't
get into a rehab, I rang him up and I said,
(18:26):
he remember when I when we spoke that time, I said,
I think I'm ready to do what I need to do.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
What do you suggest?
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Do you have any do you have any advice to me? Basically,
and he just took me under. You said meet me
at this place tomorrow and will we can get started,
So that.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
The fact that you were able to do that without
going to rehab is phenomenal and also shows that lack
of support that was around, the availability that was around
for you to not be able to go and when
you finally went, I need help and I can't do
it like this anymore. I'm so thankful that you had
that friend. And I think that really shows like just
(19:09):
the impact and the power of one person and their
ability to help kind of change the direction of your life.
And obviously you have to be in the position to
be ready to do that, and you were, and I
would love to know and kind of all of this.
How old were you when you met Kat?
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I was, jeez, two thousand and five, so I was
twenty three.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Oh my gosh, how did you guys meet just.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Turn twenty three? At a pub?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
It was R and B Night And we used to
go to this pub before we went out to the city,
usually to go clubbing for like pre drinks, and there
was R and B night and we just used to
just go there, have you know, five or six drinks,
get warmed up, and then catch a cab into town
because Obviously, clubs didn't get really good until late late
(19:59):
that night. So yeah, Kat was there that night, and yeah,
I was having this back when you could smoke in
the pub.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Both we both.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Used to smoke, and I was having a cigarette and
I saw her from across the room and she came,
like walked all the way over and asked me for
a lighter. And yeah, I saw a walk past like
five other people who were smoking, and I was like, well,
she could have asked any one of those people for
a lighter, so she.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Must like me.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
And she grabbed I lit her cigarette, and then before
she left, she said, if you want to dance, come
and see me. So that was it.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Well that's really cute. If you want to dance, come
and see me. Ah yeah please. And obviously you guys
then you started data. How long after that did you
start seeing each other?
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Pretty much straight away, So I didn't go out clubbing
that night. The rest of my friends went, and I
stayed at the pub and danced with Kat and got
to know where. I got a number, got to know
her friends who she was there with, and yeah, I
think the next day I texted her and yeah, we went.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Out for a date after that.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Then there was another date where she said she had
to tell me something and that's when she told me
that she had Letitia.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And yeah, we've we moved in like with.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Each other about three months after that and we haven't
been separated since.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Dang three months. And you guys, how many years have
been now since you've been together?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Seventeen? No, so nineteen together, was seventeen married?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Oh my gosh, that's that's a really cute story. It
kind of feels like it was like a little bit
of a love at first sight situation. Do you feel
like that's what it was?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:39):
It was.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah. What was your response when you found out that
she had a kid?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I was actually relieved because I thought she was going
to tell me something really bad, like she couldn't be
with me because she was married, or she had a
boyfriend or.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
I don't know that.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
There was all the million things I were going to
through my mind, but none of them were that she's
got a child. And to be honest, I'd always when
I was a kid, I always wanted to be a dad.
And when she said that, I was like, my response,
I was like, Oh, is that is that all coool?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
And I was like I was actually really happy that
she had.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
A child and met Tisha and fell in love with
her and sort of became an instant father, which was
pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
How what was Latitia when you meet her?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Two?
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Oh my gosh, oh baby. One of the things that
I've really really loved about, you know, slowly getting to
know your family. And I think the first time I
meet you guys was the Tech Talk Awards. However, it
was actually on Dage's birthday. I think it was the
first time I meet you, and I'd been with Kat
and Latitia the day before. I think it was her
birthday at the awards.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Two years ago.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
I think it was, yeah, And I just remember like
watching you guys as a family now and seeing specifically
your relationship with Letitia. It's just so it's so incredible
because like, statistically here, I don't know what the stats
are in Australia, but in New Zealand there's two hundred
and seventy thousand families living in a fatherless home. And
(23:11):
I think there's just so much hurt and so much
pain for these kids that are growing up in these situations,
and that kind of abandonment that can come up in
those feelings of like there's something wrong with me and
that's why they left, and to see you step into
this role and also like kind of break some of
(23:33):
the bad stigmas that are in around like step dads.
Obviously you are who dad now, but like you know,
there's a lot of there's some negative stigmas that can
come with that. But every time that I see you,
guys are just I'm so happy to see that you're
such a role model and evidence as well that one
men can be good but too how much having a
(23:57):
father figure to step in can also kind of help
with pain that your own met father may have caused.
And so it's been really really cool to see that.
And obviously then a few years later you had another child.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah, it was five years after I met Kat. We
had Yeah, five years after we met had Dasia. So yeah,
Kat actually didn't want any more kids when I met her,
and I was actually I had come to a point
where I was content with that, because there was I
wasn't I try to convince her that, you know, I
wanted to have another child. I really wanted a son.
(24:37):
And yeah, there was a sort of a catalyst that's
another story, and what sort of changed cat's mind to
have Desiah and then yeah, we ended up having Desia
five years later.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
So during this time, if I've got my maths correct,
is this when you were you were still struggling with
your addiction At that time, I was.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
But like you call it, a functioning addict, like I
was still okay, I wasn't. It wasn't destroying my life
and it wasn't detrimental because I think at that time
I was still young and I was still you know,
making having small successes and small wings in my life
that there wasn't There wasn't enough bad things happening for
(25:23):
me to take a step back and go, hey, they
made an issue here. For me, I was just having
fun and I like to have a bit more fun
than most people, and that that was the end of
it for me.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Well, your kids are part of the reason that you
wanted to get sober.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
It probably sounds really selfish, but they weren't.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
And it really has to be for any addict to
want to stop, it really has to be a selfish thing.
It really has to be one hundred percent for them,
because if it was for them, I would have done
it a long time before ictually did it. And you know,
we will always say that you have to be selfish
(26:06):
to be selfless, like I had to put myself first,
And yeah, it sounds bad, but it wasn't. They weren't
the reason that I wanted to stop because, like I said,
I didn't think that I had an issue, and when
it came down to everything falling a part of my
life that again, they weren't the catalyst. So it as
(26:27):
bad as it was. That that's just how bad addiction is.
It's like you don't really give it. You don't really
give a crap about what you're doing to other people's lives,
and they can push you and talk to you and
screaming you and want you to do whatever they want
you to do to try and stop and change your
life around. But until you come to the realization yourself
and want to actually change yourself because of you and
(26:49):
the turmoil that's going on with inside yourself, then there's
no change that could be made.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Do you think that your experiences have impacted the way
that your parent now, Like do you feel you're a
lot more aware of like that path being like something
that you're trying to steal your kids away from, or
like does it impact at all your parenting.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, definitely. So after I got clean and sober.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, it going through that process, it really opened my
eyes to watch out for the telltale signs and what
and just to be aware of when a certain person
is going down that path. And it's made me aware
of not just in my parenting, but just in life
in general. I can see, I can see it within
certain people, but I don't obviously know because of what
(27:36):
I went through, not on how to approach that with
certain people. I've Yeah, it's it's made me just more
aware on what to look out for in my kids.
And it's sort of I've always had the the opinion
not to try and hide the greediness of that sort
of stuff with your kids, and not to try and
(27:58):
sugarcoat or shield them too much away from drugs and
alcohol and white people use them and why it's such
an acceptable part of society and why people go down
that path. So I've always been really open, like I've
always said to my kids that you know, drugs and alcohol,
it feels great, So that's why people that's why people
start to do it. They don't if it felt like crap,
(28:20):
people wouldn't get into get into addiction. They wouldn't keep using,
they wouldn't be buying alcohol every.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Every weekend, and they wouldn't sell it in the shops.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
It feels great in the beginning, and I've said that
to them because what I didn't want and what sort
of happened to me is that I was always told you,
this is bad, that's bad, don't do this, don't do that,
whether it came to drug, sex, alcohol, any sort of
taboo type subjects. And then when I inevitably ended up
trying these things, I was like, well, that's not right,
(28:52):
this is great. What are they talking about?
Speaker 1 (28:54):
You know?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And then you feel betrayed and you feel like, oh,
what do they You know?
Speaker 3 (28:58):
This is billy, Like they don't know what they're talking about,
and then you just stop listening to those people in
your life.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
So I didn't want to. I didn't want that to
happen to my kids.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
You don't want to tell them that this is bad
and that's going to feel like crap, and et cetera,
et cetera. I just wanted to be open and honest
and say, hey, if you end up trying this, you're
going to you're probably going to love it. You're probably
going to enjoy it, but this is what can happen,
and this is what that can lead to, et cetera,
et cetera, Because I don't think there's a way you
can really ultimately stop anyone from doing anything, because if
(29:29):
someone really wants to do something, or they get into
a situation where they're going to try something, then they're
going to give it a go. So I think giving
them an honest opinion on what that reaction is going
to be like, so then when they do try they're like, oh,
I feel great.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
This is what dad said. He said, it's going to
feel great.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah. I really like that you're having those conversations so honestly,
because I feel like a lot of the times parents
are so afraid to have those conversations because they think
they're going to plant the idea. But like you said,
like they're going to grow up and eventually they're going
to probably try that things. And so the fact that
you've had that honest conversation is really great. And obviously
your lives kind of blew up, like everything exploded for
(30:10):
your family with social media and kind of suddenly all
these eyes were on you or on your family. How
did how how did you guys manage that as as
it started to really kind of kick off for you
because obviously you went from being kind of this normal
family to do all these eyeballs and now on you
all the time.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, I get this.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
I get asked this a little bit, and I really
I don't know how we manage it. I think I
think by having the experiences that we've had throughout our
life and having the turmoil and having been in the
depths of really tough situations in our lives and coming
through them.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
You know, we've had a.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Lot of judgment and a lot of people, you know,
look at look at us when we were young and
think that we were stupid and we did know what
we were doing, and we've always had to stick together
and just.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Go and move forward.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Anyway. Cat and I've always had a similar sort of
thrife for success, but really wanted to be successful in
our lives and really wanted to be wealthy and build
wealth for our family and really have a successful life
and show our kids a life that we were never
able to have. So, you know, having a lot of judgment,
you know, we would you know, Kat was a single month.
(31:29):
She had a lot of judgment before I ever met her,
and she overcame a lot of that sort of stuff,
get an abusive, an abusive relationship. You know, I left
home when I was sixteen, seventeen years old. You know
I was doing things that you know, people were looking
at me and saying, you know, you're never going around
to anything. You know, you're doing the wrong things, et cetera.
We got married when we were in our early twenties.
(31:50):
Everyone told us, you know, it's not going to last.
You know, we've went through so many different stages. We
started a business when we were in our mid twenties.
You quit my job, started a business. You know, Kat
came home from work and was working her own businesses
and things like that, and people are telling us financially security,
you should be doing this, you should be doing that. So
(32:10):
we've been through a lot of that sort of judgment
and people looking at us thinking that we're crazy if
we don't know what we're doing. So I think that's
built a bit of a strong foundation for coming into
a bit of a linelight phase of our life now
where those sort of things don't phase us, and we've
got a lot of morals and an outlook on life
(32:30):
that we don't, it's sort of it doesn't penetrate. Does
that make sense?
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, And I also think that you can see that
just through your family unit as well, and how strong
you guys are like that when things are heading you're
just all in it together, which I think doesn't often happen.
When people kind of blow up, it might just be
them individually and not their whole family. And so to
see you guys kind of be so tight and how
(32:57):
all these life experiences, I think if you hadn't had those,
all of that hate and all of the other stuff,
Like I know, for me, I would just sit there
and bare my eyes out all the time if I
hadn't had the life experiences that I'd have. So, you know,
it feels like it kind of set us up for
having people critique everything that you do. And obviously, you
guys then win in and launched your business Collade, which
(33:19):
congratulations it's been I see it everywhere all over my
for you page all the time, and it's been so
cool to see the success of that and of your
family in general. And I would I would love to
know what advice that you would have for I'm going
to go two different groups of people. Firstly, for people
that are in the middle of addiction and are struggling
(33:43):
with that, what would you say to them.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
It's hard because people that are in the middle of
the middle of addiction probably unaware that they haven't is
have a problem. Well, what I would say is that
when you do get to a point where you do well,
you do think that you have an issue, seize that
moment and don't let it pass and try and get
help as soon as you can. Try and find someone
(34:09):
who has done what you want to do. Don't go
to someone who who has lived a sheltered, proper life
and hasn't experienced that. I felt the most help that
I got was when I went into the rooms of
the fellowships and sat next to people who have been
through exactly what I've been through, have felt the things
that I've felt, have had the desires and the wants,
(34:31):
and all those in a turmoil that I've that I
went through, and then have beat their addiction and now
I'm living in complete sobriety and having a successful life
with all the blessed things that come with that. Once
I sat in those rooms and listened to those people
and spotted all the similarities that I had with them,
(34:51):
then I was open to getting the help that I needed.
So yeah, I would say, just to seek out the
fellowships that respond to whatever addiction that you're in, and
just do the work getting there, and do the work.
Look for the similarities. Don't sit in those rooms and
look forward the differences. Don't listen to their stories and go, oh, well,
I never did that, I never injected that drug, or
(35:13):
I never did that to my parents or etc. Listen
to the similarities and when they tell their stories and go, hey,
that sounds a little bit of what I was going
through or I've done that or I s felt like that,
and grab onto those similarities and then just do the work.
Do exactly what they have done to get where they
have because it's a system and it works, and you
can have an amazing life if you can get through
(35:36):
that and get through the work.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
And you're obviously your evidence of that and your life
is evidence of that, which is why I'm so thankful
that you're willing to tell the story, because I think
you just stand as proof that if you can have
those conversations and you can get to that point of
accepting I need to get help that things can change.
And the second group of people that would love for
(35:59):
you to speak to is people that have loved ones
that are struggling with addiction and they just don't know
what to do. They don't know what to say, they
don't know what would you say to them.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
That's a really tough one because I still struggle with
that myself, even though I've been through it myself.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
It's probably one of the hardest things that that you
have to deal with. So I would say to really
protect yourself because you can't do anything. Nothing, nothing you say,
is going to make that person change. All you can
(36:38):
do is be in their life as much as you
can to the point that it's not going to affect
your family and your well being. But then just put
up those boundaries and really look after yourself first, like
be selfish in that situation and don't keep going back
to get beaten down, because that person needs to make
the decision and to get to help themselves. No matter
(37:00):
what you say, and no matter what you do, it's
not gonna it's not going to help them. And then
the second thing was just to maybe just to keep
make sure that they know that when they are ready
or when they do come to the point that they
need help, that they can come to you and rely
on you to help them.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Get the help. That's probably all you can do.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
It it's pretty tough to have I loved one in
that situation. And they are also fellowships that actually help
people who are children, spouses, friends of people in addiction.
So they have a specific program to help you deal
with that situation. Because it sounds easy to stay just
put up a barrier because you know, and don't let
(37:45):
them into your life or just protect yourself. But some
people are in a situation where that that's just not possible.
They have to be in the house, they have to
be in the marriage, or they have to be in
the country, or you know, there's so many different situations
where they just can't get out of that situation. So
there are fellowships that deal with those specific situations, and
I'd just say this, go and go to those people.
(38:08):
Go to those fellowships, and just the same as any
other addiction fellowship, there's work to do in those because
it's tough. So if you really wanted to get the help,
just get in there, get the work done, and you
can have an amazing life as well.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, I think that's thank you for saying that. I
think it's really important for people to hear. And I
mean myself, I've got a lot of my very close
loved ones are struggling with addiction and have struggled with addiction,
and I think it's really hard to step outside of
like a superhero complex. To put it in a simple
term of going like I have to be the one
(38:44):
to save them. I have to like and you can't.
And I think everything that you've said and that really
sums it up of like, it wasn't anything else externally
or any other people that made you make that decision
to go and get so, but that had to come
from you. And I think that's really helpful for people
to know that they like their job is to be there,
(39:06):
to love them, to point them in the right direction
as much as their abilities allow them to, but that
at the end of the day, that decision is with
that person. And just to close out the last question
that I want to ask you, I asked just everyone
that comes on obviously this podcast is called Hope is Real,
And I would love to know what the word hope
means to you.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Oh, hope to me means that's a tough one. It's
a really it's a good question whether there's.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
A tough one.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Hope to me means.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Never giving up and having the faith and confidencing yourself
that you can do whatever you want with your life
and you can overcome whenever you want to overcome, and
that you have of the power within you to be
the person that you want to be or that you
aspire to be.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
I love that. That's really cool. Hey, thank you so
much for taking the time. I know that you guys
are so crazy busy at the moment with all the
twelve million things that you and your family are juggling,
So I really appreciate you taking the time to come
on and to chat through your story. And I know
that it will inspire people, that it will encourage people.
And I also think, just like I said, I know
that you'll have the same impact on other people that
(40:29):
you have on me, even just meeting you and being
around you and knowing that men can be good and
that fathers can be good, because I think that a
lot of the time people can take that for granted
because it's not what a lot of us grow up with.
And so thank you for showing us that that can
be the case. And yeah, again, thank you for taking
the time to come on. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Well that you have it, guys, thank you so much
for staying and for listening to this episode. And like
I've said at the beginning, and I always say, if
any thing in this episode that's been talked about has
brought anything up for you, you feel like you need to
talk to someone, then please remember and know that the
bravest thing that you can do right now is to
talk to someone, is to ask for help, whether that's
(41:13):
from a friend, a family member, or if you don't
know who to talk to, then if you live in Altiola,
here you can call or text one seven three seven
at any time to talk to a trained counselor. Or
if you live overseas, go to dub dub dub dot
the Voices of Hope dot org for a list of
international helplines. Remember that no matter what it is that
you're facing, no matter what it is that you're going through,
(41:35):
that in all things, hope is real and change is possible.
I'll see you guys next week.
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