July 1, 2025 • 14 mins
Weight loss drugs are becoming increasingly sought after, with Wegovy hitting New Zealand pharmacies this month.
It’s currently not funded, and people will need a prescription to get it.
However, people are warning that weight loss drugs aren’t a silver bullet, and lifestyle changes are needed for long term success.
‘What The Fat?’, co-authored by Caryn Zinn, Craig Rodger, and Grant Schofield, highlights a low-carb, healthy-fat diet, and is held up as an effective weight loss tool.
Dr Zinn joined Kerre Woodham for a chat about her work as a dietician, What The Fat?, and healthy ways to lose weight.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the carry Wood and Morning's podcast from
News Talks, he'd be Now.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
If you were with me yesterday, you might remember we
were talking about the launch of weight loss drug were
GOOV in New Zealand and whether it should eventually be
publicly funded because the cost of doing so would be
less than the cost of paying for obesity related illnesses
where GOV is not funded by far, making costs around
five hundred dollars a month from pharmacies under prescription. And
(00:35):
during our to hour conversation, as these things do, there
was segways and side paths and interesting conversational roots, and
we had many a chat in many a text recommending
the book What the Fat as one of the best
weight loss tools. I think our findings at the end
of the to hour conversation from our many many calls
(00:56):
and texts were that bariatric surgery and a change of
lifestyle worked and What the Fat worked, And given that
the author is a New Zealand dietitian and co author
of What the Fact, Professor Karenson, who's a co director
of Sports Performance Research Institute at AUT, we extended an
(01:16):
invitation to her and she very kindly found the time. Karen,
very good morning to you. Good morning, carry. I does
it surprise you that a book you published some time
ago was still absolutely front of mind when it comes
to talk around a healthy lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, there's interesting. I'm kind of surprised and not surprised
at the same time, because the book has longevity and
it's something that's not necessarily sexy or on the minute.
It describes a lifelong lifestyle strategy, and you know, we
published it about eleven years ago and it's still as
(01:53):
current as it ever was. So it's great to hear.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, I'm sure it is. For those who haven't read
the book. I think a number of I think Helen
ordered it at the library. I've found it on trey Me.
Might have to do another little, another little publication, a
little republish. What are the principles of what the Fat.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Right? So the principles are around whole food, So that's
the predominant foundation. It's about eating whole, unprocessed food. But
it's also mainly around carbohydrate reduction. And you know, we
know that from an efficacy perspective, low carbohydrate diets or
(02:40):
carbohydrate reduction or therapeutic carbohydrate restriction, whatever way, you want
to call it. It does work, particularly for people with
insulin resistance and hyperinsulinemia. So it's about a reduction of carbohydrate,
which means that the protein and the diet is going
to be lifted a little bit. And it also really
(03:04):
it lifts the ban on fat, if you like. So
we talk about l C HF low cop healthy fat.
So we talk a lot about healthy fats and not
to avoid them as we are usually guided to do.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And those would be like avocado, olive oils, some nuts,
things like that.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Typically they would be yep mono unsaturated and amega three
polleys from the foods that you suggested, including fatty fish
and so other things. But I will say that the
book is not free from controversy, and we do believe.
And when I say we, it's not just the three authors,
it's a massive body of clinicians, health professionals, academics. We
(03:47):
are under the evidence based belief that saturated fat, so
your typical animal fat, in the context of a whole
food diet with good lifestyle supporting that is actually not
harmful as we think it is. So the difference is
having a fatty meat or having skin on the chicken
(04:10):
along vegetables and things is not a problem. But having
cream on the donut in the context of our own
world is still a problem.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, understood. One of the very strong themes that came
through yesterday and in fact every time you talk about
weight lost to a wider audience, is that there are
those who get it and those who don't. People who
struggle to lose weight generally aren't stupid or ill informed,
(04:38):
or or willful or weak or pathetic. But the people
who only need food to eat wo't who don't they
just don't get that finding a healthy balance in food
(04:59):
is difficult for some intelligent people to do.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yep, I agree. I mean, look, if we could all,
if we were all wired just to eat for fuel
and for micronutrient consumption, we wouldn't have the problem that
we have. But in reality, people eat for emotional reasons,
and I don't only mean negative emotions. We eat for
positive We celebrate things. We eat out of out of despair,
(05:26):
out of depression, out of boredom, out of frustration. So
you know, while these weight loss drugs do have the
advantage that they curb hunger where life doesn't curb, all
these other kind of emotions that are attached to how
we live. So I'm absolutely agreeing with you in saying
(05:47):
that intelligent people who can't lose weight are still intelligent.
It's not about intelligent or non intelligent. It's a tough
thing to do, so it's more about diligence and effort
and wanting the outcome more than you want the poor
(06:08):
health site health effects of eating a poor quality diet
and living a poor lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Every time I have crappy food, like it might be
a day of crappy food. I just found it really
interesting taking my grandson and his friend out for a
day that the food on offer was deep fried. Just
about everywhere we went to where there are a lot
of young people gathered to have fun, there are very
few healthy options, and sometimes you can't bring your own
(06:37):
food to eat in the place you're going to, which
is annoying. But if I've eaten crappy food, my body
lets me know it doesn't like it. You start to
crave steamed broccolini, and you know which is your body
does know best if you listen to it, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Well, well, that's the key, if you listen to it.
If you are in tune to it. But for all
your listeners here I challenge everyone to tidy up their
diet and go on a whole food carbohydrate reduced diet
and all the you know, the breads and the pastas
and rice and cereal, those sorts of things which are
tainted as often tainted as healthy whole grains. If you
(07:14):
really tiny up your dye for a while and then
you start eating crappy food, wow, you will really know
how toxic you have been and how you've been living
before you change things. It is remarkable.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
It is remarkable, isn't it. But it's also remarkable how
tolerant we get to toxins. Like I know that, like
when I give up alcohol and then if I have
a drink after some months or years of not drinking,
it's whereas normally I'd be able to tolerate a bottle,
I can barely tolerate a glass.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yep. The body is amazing at adapting to the situation
that it finds itself in, whether it's good or bad.
I think the only the only exception to that is dehydration.
Your body doesn't really adapt to being in a dehydrated state.
It will when you dehydrated. But it is amazing how
(08:08):
the body adapts to things, but also that you know,
the sad realities of modern life, which you touched on.
Wherever you go, whether it's a it's a place for
celebration with your grandkids, whether it's a school maybe not
so much a school, a university campus, and dare I say,
(08:29):
a hospital, you will find food that will make you ill.
It is you know, the irony just is kind of
lost on most. I think it's a travesty.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So when it comes to the funding of weight loss drugs,
is that where do you think a it's worth spending
that money upfront to try and prevent people getting obesily
related illnesses, or if we were going to spend a
chunk of money on weight loss drugs, we should spend
the money somewhere else. In another way, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I mean I definitely think we should. We should spend
the money somewhere else. I mean, we get, you know,
the public health budget, we get such a tiny amount
of money that's geared towards true metabolic health and prevention.
If you look at primary care, if you look at
the health system, it is absolutely broken. I mean, a
(09:26):
fifteen minute appointment with your GPS says a lot. Now,
you know, things are changing a little bit in that
health coaches are being incorporated into the health system, and
that's to kind of ease the pressure of doctors in
the medical system, and that is helping. But you know,
I just don't think that taking a poll should be
(09:50):
the answer to our problems. I really don't. I'm not
necessarily anti these drugs. I think that they can be
useful for some people who have real problems in trying
to shift their weight, but I certainly I don't believe
in the doses that they are currently recommended is the
answer so potentially for vulnerable people. And that's I guess.
(10:13):
You know, there's a challenge in determining who that is
a combination between maybe a microdose of some of these
drugs alongside lifestyle metabolic health advice, proper advice given by
you know, multidisciplinary groups with them. Primary care is where
(10:33):
we really need to head.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
It's just I got results of a blood test back
recently and I'm dangerously close to being in that pre
diabetic you know, which still gives you time. But I
don't want to be in that pre diabetic. I want
to head myself off before I even get close to it.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
You know, Yeah, good call.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And the cool thing is is that a lot of
the things that happen to us, a lot of a
lot of the diseases you get can't control, but in
this you can. And I think that's just so wonderfully
powerful to be able to go, Oh, clever body, thank
you for giving me an early warning system I can do.
(11:16):
I can do something about this with what I'm eating
and how I'm exercising. In many cases, some people can't,
but in many cases, yep, I agree.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
And I think the concept of pre diabetes is a
little bit it's flawed in that it's it's not pre anything.
Pre diabetes is not pre anything. It is diabetes. It's
just early stages of diabetes. And I think it needs
to be treated with the same I mean, pre diabetes
(11:46):
typically is not treated with drugs. When you get to diabetes,
you start, you start on drugs. But if you you know,
if you don't adhere to the warning signs, you'll end
up with diabetes. So you need to start the management
right there and then. And you know, we're at aet
at the moment. We've got a a four year funded
(12:08):
HRC study looking at reversing pre diabetes and type two
diabetes in primary care settings using this exact approach, and
we're getting some fabulous outcomes that.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Would be just so for people who are like me
or are in that pre diabetic zone or what the
GPS call the pre diabetic zone. Is that reducing carbohydrates,
focusing on proteins.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
It is, I mean, it's a it's a it's a lifestyle.
It's a holistic look at things, but the fundamental basis
of it is whole food carbohydrate reduction. So if you eat,
if you eat well, it's it's you know, aligned with
sleeping well, getting outside, getting some sunshine, moving your body regularly,
(12:56):
all those things that need to be talked about in
primary care settings, and in fact, I think they need
to be talked talked about and can be talked about
in many settings. You know, you go to your hairdresser,
you go to your physio, you go places where they're
conversations that happen. And I think that people who are
in front of other people could be talking about these
(13:16):
things more often than they are.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Just as we are, just as we are exactly, And
so how do people get hold of the book, Karen,
I knew you'd ask that.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
It's funny. Text messages from my friends yesterday going oh
I see What the Fat got a plug on the radio.
I'm like, oh my god, we run we run out
of print. We saw probably about one hundred and fifty
thousand of these books around the world, which is amazing,
and we sort of rode the wave and we're not
(13:48):
actually printing them all, so it's a bit. It's a
case of a big borrow or steel library. Copies are available.
In fact, I saw somebody put What the Fat Book
on a paved forward Facebook site the other day. Marco
bar I kind of wanted to take it back so
(14:08):
I could regifted to someone. But you do find them
around on various websites and places, so it's worth a look.
But you know, don't despare. The internet is amazing and
you can literally google you know, low carb or carbohydrate
(14:29):
reduction and recipes principles. There's a lot of information out
there that echoes what's in the book.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Brilliant. Thank you so much for your time. We do
appreciate it. Professor Karenson Dietitian, Co Director of Sports Performance
Research Institute at AUT and Co. Author of what the Fact.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen to news talks
that'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the carry Wood and Morning's podcast from
News Talks, he'd be Now.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
If you were with me yesterday, you might remember we
were talking about the launch of weight loss drug were
GOOV in New Zealand and whether it should eventually be
publicly funded because the cost of doing so would be
less than the cost of paying for obesity related illnesses
where GOV is not funded by far, making costs around
five hundred dollars a month from pharmacies under prescription. And
(00:35):
during our to hour conversation, as these things do, there
was segways and side paths and interesting conversational roots, and
we had many a chat in many a text recommending
the book What the Fat as one of the best
weight loss tools. I think our findings at the end
of the to hour conversation from our many many calls
(00:56):
and texts were that bariatric surgery and a change of
lifestyle worked and What the Fat worked, And given that
the author is a New Zealand dietitian and co author
of What the Fact, Professor Karenson, who's a co director
of Sports Performance Research Institute at AUT, we extended an
(01:16):
invitation to her and she very kindly found the time. Karen,
very good morning to you. Good morning, carry. I does
it surprise you that a book you published some time
ago was still absolutely front of mind when it comes
to talk around a healthy lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, there's interesting. I'm kind of surprised and not surprised
at the same time, because the book has longevity and
it's something that's not necessarily sexy or on the minute.
It describes a lifelong lifestyle strategy, and you know, we
published it about eleven years ago and it's still as
(01:53):
current as it ever was. So it's great to hear.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, I'm sure it is. For those who haven't read
the book. I think a number of I think Helen
ordered it at the library. I've found it on trey Me.
Might have to do another little, another little publication, a
little republish. What are the principles of what the Fat.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Right? So the principles are around whole food, So that's
the predominant foundation. It's about eating whole, unprocessed food. But
it's also mainly around carbohydrate reduction. And you know, we
know that from an efficacy perspective, low carbohydrate diets or
(02:40):
carbohydrate reduction or therapeutic carbohydrate restriction, whatever way, you want
to call it. It does work, particularly for people with
insulin resistance and hyperinsulinemia. So it's about a reduction of carbohydrate,
which means that the protein and the diet is going
to be lifted a little bit. And it also really
(03:04):
it lifts the ban on fat, if you like. So
we talk about l C HF low cop healthy fat.
So we talk a lot about healthy fats and not
to avoid them as we are usually guided to do.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And those would be like avocado, olive oils, some nuts,
things like that.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Typically they would be yep mono unsaturated and amega three
polleys from the foods that you suggested, including fatty fish
and so other things. But I will say that the
book is not free from controversy, and we do believe.
And when I say we, it's not just the three authors,
it's a massive body of clinicians, health professionals, academics. We
(03:47):
are under the evidence based belief that saturated fat, so
your typical animal fat, in the context of a whole
food diet with good lifestyle supporting that is actually not
harmful as we think it is. So the difference is
having a fatty meat or having skin on the chicken
(04:10):
along vegetables and things is not a problem. But having
cream on the donut in the context of our own
world is still a problem.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, understood. One of the very strong themes that came
through yesterday and in fact every time you talk about
weight lost to a wider audience, is that there are
those who get it and those who don't. People who
struggle to lose weight generally aren't stupid or ill informed,
(04:38):
or or willful or weak or pathetic. But the people
who only need food to eat wo't who don't they
just don't get that finding a healthy balance in food
(04:59):
is difficult for some intelligent people to do.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yep, I agree. I mean, look, if we could all,
if we were all wired just to eat for fuel
and for micronutrient consumption, we wouldn't have the problem that
we have. But in reality, people eat for emotional reasons,
and I don't only mean negative emotions. We eat for
positive We celebrate things. We eat out of out of despair,
(05:26):
out of depression, out of boredom, out of frustration. So
you know, while these weight loss drugs do have the
advantage that they curb hunger where life doesn't curb, all
these other kind of emotions that are attached to how
we live. So I'm absolutely agreeing with you in saying
(05:47):
that intelligent people who can't lose weight are still intelligent.
It's not about intelligent or non intelligent. It's a tough
thing to do, so it's more about diligence and effort
and wanting the outcome more than you want the poor
(06:08):
health site health effects of eating a poor quality diet
and living a poor lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Every time I have crappy food, like it might be
a day of crappy food. I just found it really
interesting taking my grandson and his friend out for a
day that the food on offer was deep fried. Just
about everywhere we went to where there are a lot
of young people gathered to have fun, there are very
few healthy options, and sometimes you can't bring your own
(06:37):
food to eat in the place you're going to, which
is annoying. But if I've eaten crappy food, my body
lets me know it doesn't like it. You start to
crave steamed broccolini, and you know which is your body
does know best if you listen to it, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Well, well, that's the key, if you listen to it.
If you are in tune to it. But for all
your listeners here I challenge everyone to tidy up their
diet and go on a whole food carbohydrate reduced diet
and all the you know, the breads and the pastas
and rice and cereal, those sorts of things which are
tainted as often tainted as healthy whole grains. If you
(07:14):
really tiny up your dye for a while and then
you start eating crappy food, wow, you will really know
how toxic you have been and how you've been living
before you change things. It is remarkable.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
It is remarkable, isn't it. But it's also remarkable how
tolerant we get to toxins. Like I know that, like
when I give up alcohol and then if I have
a drink after some months or years of not drinking,
it's whereas normally I'd be able to tolerate a bottle,
I can barely tolerate a glass.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yep. The body is amazing at adapting to the situation
that it finds itself in, whether it's good or bad.
I think the only the only exception to that is dehydration.
Your body doesn't really adapt to being in a dehydrated state.
It will when you dehydrated. But it is amazing how
(08:08):
the body adapts to things, but also that you know,
the sad realities of modern life, which you touched on.
Wherever you go, whether it's a it's a place for
celebration with your grandkids, whether it's a school maybe not
so much a school, a university campus, and dare I say,
(08:29):
a hospital, you will find food that will make you ill.
It is you know, the irony just is kind of
lost on most. I think it's a travesty.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So when it comes to the funding of weight loss drugs,
is that where do you think a it's worth spending
that money upfront to try and prevent people getting obesily
related illnesses, or if we were going to spend a
chunk of money on weight loss drugs, we should spend
the money somewhere else. In another way, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I mean I definitely think we should. We should spend
the money somewhere else. I mean, we get, you know,
the public health budget, we get such a tiny amount
of money that's geared towards true metabolic health and prevention.
If you look at primary care, if you look at
the health system, it is absolutely broken. I mean, a
(09:26):
fifteen minute appointment with your GPS says a lot. Now,
you know, things are changing a little bit in that
health coaches are being incorporated into the health system, and
that's to kind of ease the pressure of doctors in
the medical system, and that is helping. But you know,
I just don't think that taking a poll should be
(09:50):
the answer to our problems. I really don't. I'm not
necessarily anti these drugs. I think that they can be
useful for some people who have real problems in trying
to shift their weight, but I certainly I don't believe
in the doses that they are currently recommended is the
answer so potentially for vulnerable people. And that's I guess.
(10:13):
You know, there's a challenge in determining who that is
a combination between maybe a microdose of some of these
drugs alongside lifestyle metabolic health advice, proper advice given by
you know, multidisciplinary groups with them. Primary care is where
(10:33):
we really need to head.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
It's just I got results of a blood test back
recently and I'm dangerously close to being in that pre
diabetic you know, which still gives you time. But I
don't want to be in that pre diabetic. I want
to head myself off before I even get close to it.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
You know, Yeah, good call.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And the cool thing is is that a lot of
the things that happen to us, a lot of a
lot of the diseases you get can't control, but in
this you can. And I think that's just so wonderfully
powerful to be able to go, Oh, clever body, thank
you for giving me an early warning system I can do.
(11:16):
I can do something about this with what I'm eating
and how I'm exercising. In many cases, some people can't,
but in many cases, yep, I agree.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
And I think the concept of pre diabetes is a
little bit it's flawed in that it's it's not pre anything.
Pre diabetes is not pre anything. It is diabetes. It's
just early stages of diabetes. And I think it needs
to be treated with the same I mean, pre diabetes
(11:46):
typically is not treated with drugs. When you get to diabetes,
you start, you start on drugs. But if you you know,
if you don't adhere to the warning signs, you'll end
up with diabetes. So you need to start the management
right there and then. And you know, we're at aet
at the moment. We've got a a four year funded
(12:08):
HRC study looking at reversing pre diabetes and type two
diabetes in primary care settings using this exact approach, and
we're getting some fabulous outcomes that.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Would be just so for people who are like me
or are in that pre diabetic zone or what the
GPS call the pre diabetic zone. Is that reducing carbohydrates,
focusing on proteins.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
It is, I mean, it's a it's a it's a lifestyle.
It's a holistic look at things, but the fundamental basis
of it is whole food carbohydrate reduction. So if you eat,
if you eat well, it's it's you know, aligned with
sleeping well, getting outside, getting some sunshine, moving your body regularly,
(12:56):
all those things that need to be talked about in
primary care settings, and in fact, I think they need
to be talked talked about and can be talked about
in many settings. You know, you go to your hairdresser,
you go to your physio, you go places where they're
conversations that happen. And I think that people who are
in front of other people could be talking about these
(13:16):
things more often than they are.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Just as we are, just as we are exactly, And
so how do people get hold of the book, Karen,
I knew you'd ask that.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
It's funny. Text messages from my friends yesterday going oh
I see What the Fat got a plug on the radio.
I'm like, oh my god, we run we run out
of print. We saw probably about one hundred and fifty
thousand of these books around the world, which is amazing,
and we sort of rode the wave and we're not
(13:48):
actually printing them all, so it's a bit. It's a
case of a big borrow or steel library. Copies are available.
In fact, I saw somebody put What the Fat Book
on a paved forward Facebook site the other day. Marco
bar I kind of wanted to take it back so
(14:08):
I could regifted to someone. But you do find them
around on various websites and places, so it's worth a look.
But you know, don't despare. The internet is amazing and
you can literally google you know, low carb or carbohydrate
(14:29):
reduction and recipes principles. There's a lot of information out
there that echoes what's in the book.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Brilliant. Thank you so much for your time. We do
appreciate it. Professor Karenson Dietitian, Co Director of Sports Performance
Research Institute at AUT and Co. Author of what the Fact.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen to news talks
that'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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