February 16, 2025 • 11 mins
The Prime Minister says anti-LGBTQ protestors linked to Destiny Church, went too far in disruptions yesterday.
Members of the church's Man Up and Legacy groups, stormed a children's drag event at a west Auckland library - where about 30 people had to be barricaded inside.
Later, police intervened, when the the same group also disrupted Pride Parade festivities, on Ponsonby Road, with a haka.
The Topp Twins also made a statement on their social media saying “We will not be intimidated. We will not stand for violence. We are vibrant, strong, beautiful and loving. We will not go away."
Dame Jools Topp joins the show.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Mornings podcast from News
Talks HEADB.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
The Prime Minister says anti LGBTQ protesters linked to Destiny
Church went too far in disruptions. Yesterday, members of the
church's Man Up and Legacy groups stormed a children's drag
event at a west Auckland library where about thirty people
had to be barricaded inside. Later police and even when
the same group also disrupted Pride parade festivities on Ponsonby
(00:34):
Road with a hooker, the Top Twins made a statement
on their social media saying we will not be intimidated.
We will not stand for violence. We are vibrants, strong,
beautiful and loving. We will not go away. Dame Jeel's
Top is with me. A very good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Ah Kerrie, thanks you very much. Yes, it's been quite
a few interesting days.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Well it's just I said this morning, it feels like
we've got the seventies back again, but without the good
bits like housing, affordability an excellent education.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
That's right. Well, you know the world is changing. It's
a strange time to be living here because I mean,
freedom of speech and hate speech are two very different things.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
And also breaking the law and disrupting, you know, disrupting
an event that nobody was compelled to go to. Nobody
was forcing the parents to take their children.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
And if you and and and this strongly enough, someone
you know pointed out this morning we were talking about,
you know, how people perceive people. Drag has been around forever,
and I remember a famous drag queen called Diamond Lille.
And you might even who was who was honestly was
(01:54):
supported and managed by one of Aubuan's counselors, Phil Warren.
That's right, So it was. It was accepted as part
of some you know, of a very important historical part
of New Zealand's entertainment. And if you look at what
we've been doing as Ken and Ken, some people might
not say that's King drag, but it certainly is. It's
(02:19):
someone dressing up for entertainment, portraying a different sex, and
it's never meant to hurt. It's always about entertainment. And
that's what's so amazing about the drag, the drag queens
and the drag kings. It's about love, it's about enjoyment.
It's about something that's you know, something bribe brent and
exciting and full of love.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yes, of course Kevin Ken would drag,
weren't they and much loved, much loved dragon things. I think, certainly,
judging from some of the texts that are coming in,
people are getting confused by transgender rights, by the fact
that if you're in drag you might be transgender. I
(03:02):
think people are confused.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
By the isn't it? Yeah, it's the fear of the
know it And I think in some respects, anyone who's
you know, struggling with their own identity, or they're really
certain that they want to be trans and I mean transgender,
they're actually transitioning sometimes that the drag king and the
(03:23):
drag queen is the safest place for them to maybe
feel like they're part of something. It might be where
they start out either you know what I mean, to
see what it feels like to be in that persona,
to feel what it's like, to understand what they're feeling
is and whether they feel like they're you know, they're
(03:44):
confused about their gender, they want to try something, so
in some ways drag, drag king and drag queen is
also a safe place for transgender Yeah, is it?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I wonder where the fear has come from. And because
you know, even my even my dear old, deeply Catholic,
deeply conservative dad, you know, went to went to see
Diamond Lille. Now I'd completely forgotten about that until you
mentioned Marcus Craig was the entertainer, wasn't it? And and
(04:21):
you know supported Marilyn Wearing, you know, and when when
she was outed by by Truth newspaper there was mutterings
in this deeply conservative, you know electorate in which she lived,
the bloody not on and you know you wouldn't that's
outrageous that they go that the media are going to
poke around in her private life. There was an acceptance
even if you didn't understand it. But is it because
(04:43):
there are so many strident voices telling people how they
should live from all across the spectrum or I just
don't understand where the why we've gone backwards?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Well, I just think that you know, there's all there's
lots of people to take in. You know, we've got
all the women in sport, the transgender, all that sort
of stuff. That's got a lot of anti stuff going
on with but at no stage as anyone able to
question how people feel about their sexuality. That's the bottom line,
if that's how you feel it's right for you, then
(05:17):
it's right for you because it's got nothing to do
with anybody else. And you're right if you don't want
to take your kids to the to the to the
drag king show at the library. I mean, it's not
meant to frighten children. I mean kids are frightened of
Santa Claus and clowns before they're fronten of a drag queen.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It's the feathers and the sequence and the fun and
like I called them unicorns on two feet, and that's
what they kind of are advocates.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
They say, the problem is the problem now is what
we've got this. It's this great fear that the drag
queens and the drag kings and all this transcender stuff
they think that leads to the Unfortunately, religion has really
made that look like we're all terrible, and they sometimes
(06:03):
associate child.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Abuse for that, which is rich coming from church.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Leaders, totally rich. If there was a thing that was
put out on Facebook the other day that says from
twenty nineteen ninety nine through to twenty twenty two, drag queens,
no one convicted of childs twenty five church leaders convicted.
I close my case walk away. Well, you know what,
(06:29):
we've only had absolute love. We've had this, you know,
the site where Linda put the message up after the
big we call the Pride Ponsonby incident now because we
don't want to meet. None of their names were nothing
but love, support, encouragement, all of that stuff unbelievable. I
(06:51):
think every single news ellen who's has common sense, they
just have said, what's all this about? It's so stupid?
And if the thing about it too is that it's
drag came and drag queens. They've all been there, has
always been a part of the gay movement, and a suddenly,
(07:13):
you know, it's one really interesting group of people who
are now making us bad. Because when they make the
drag kings bad or the drag queen's bad, that's our
gay community. And what happens is you we have to
stand up. Yeah, you know, we identify as vision, but
(07:34):
we are strongly involved and identifying with the people who
we know that needs support. It's not about ever about
isolating one group from another, you know, is this is
what Trump is doing. He isolates one group from the
rest of the world to say they're they're worse than us.
(07:54):
And this is exactly what our our our ridiculous you
know religious community is doing. They're isolating and making those
people wrong, and just is so not on, you know,
it's just so not on the people that disrupted the
Pride March. They're the most dangerous gang in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, I'd like if you had said, if we had
said we'd be having this discussion in twenty twenty five,
I don't think I'd have given up all hope. Like
in the in the eighties and nineties, it was inclusive
and vibrant and fun. And where has it all gone
(08:43):
so horribly wrong?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
It's hard to No. I think I think people are
just maybe we don't march with march anymore. I can
tell you that. So you know, we're all we're all
in undated with our social media and maybe that's where
it's messed up a little bit. You know. Well, well,
you know, I think you know, at some point in time,
(09:09):
at the point especially a we are what prove what
is amore really disturbing?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, And I suppose back in the day, if you
felt strongly about something, you had to articulate an argument.
You have to come up with cogent reasons for or
against it. You had to look the person in the
eye when you were espousing your views, and nowadays you
don't have to do that. You can go into a
little echo chamber and just.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
You know, I mean, well, well, well, you know, if
we haven't performed for a very long time, because we've
both been a bit unwell for too long to even
think about entertaining the idea of we've done it. We've
done a couple of gigs and that's been part you know, yeah,
both and to you know, dabble in the step and
(10:03):
foot on stage again. And it was quite exciting. But
does that mean that, you know, well we expect to
be you know, well they stare on the help tuns
because we dress up as Ken and Ken. I mean,
it's really, it's just so stupid. Those characters were designed
to show this great, this real pe wee iconsert of thing,
(10:26):
you know, and they've become you know, synonymous with us,
those characters, and in some ways they were never deemed
to be drag king. They were a character that we made.
But if you talk to the drag Queens and the
Dad Queens are characters that they play too. They believe
(10:46):
strongly in their craft. Their costumes are amazing. It's all
about entertainment, you know. The drag Queens and the dagon
Kings are all about entertainment. Now now suddenly more political
to do with honestly a lot of us to do
with religion putting down the gay community, and yet few
(11:08):
of you did before. That's that's really rich coming from me.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, and the fact that there are fewer people, you know,
identifying as Christian than ever before. So I don't get
it either. I Dame Jewels, I wish you well and
I hope you're feeling better soon, and thank you for
the wonderful people too.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Is that the gay community has only ever bought their
battles with love for the violence.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Thank you, Dame Jewels. Dame Jewels top one half of
the iconic Top Twins.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to news
talks that'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Carrywood and Mornings podcast from News
Talks HEADB.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
The Prime Minister says anti LGBTQ protesters linked to Destiny
Church went too far in disruptions. Yesterday, members of the
church's Man Up and Legacy groups stormed a children's drag
event at a west Auckland library where about thirty people
had to be barricaded inside. Later police and even when
the same group also disrupted Pride parade festivities on Ponsonby
(00:34):
Road with a hooker, the Top Twins made a statement
on their social media saying we will not be intimidated.
We will not stand for violence. We are vibrants, strong,
beautiful and loving. We will not go away. Dame Jeel's
Top is with me. A very good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Ah Kerrie, thanks you very much. Yes, it's been quite
a few interesting days.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Well it's just I said this morning, it feels like
we've got the seventies back again, but without the good
bits like housing, affordability an excellent education.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
That's right. Well, you know the world is changing. It's
a strange time to be living here because I mean,
freedom of speech and hate speech are two very different things.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
And also breaking the law and disrupting, you know, disrupting
an event that nobody was compelled to go to. Nobody
was forcing the parents to take their children.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
And if you and and and this strongly enough, someone
you know pointed out this morning we were talking about,
you know, how people perceive people. Drag has been around forever,
and I remember a famous drag queen called Diamond Lille.
And you might even who was who was honestly was
(01:54):
supported and managed by one of Aubuan's counselors, Phil Warren.
That's right, So it was. It was accepted as part
of some you know, of a very important historical part
of New Zealand's entertainment. And if you look at what
we've been doing as Ken and Ken, some people might
not say that's King drag, but it certainly is. It's
(02:19):
someone dressing up for entertainment, portraying a different sex, and
it's never meant to hurt. It's always about entertainment. And
that's what's so amazing about the drag, the drag queens
and the drag kings. It's about love, it's about enjoyment.
It's about something that's you know, something bribe brent and
exciting and full of love.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yes, of course Kevin Ken would drag,
weren't they and much loved, much loved dragon things. I think, certainly,
judging from some of the texts that are coming in,
people are getting confused by transgender rights, by the fact
that if you're in drag you might be transgender. I
(03:02):
think people are confused.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
By the isn't it? Yeah, it's the fear of the
know it And I think in some respects, anyone who's
you know, struggling with their own identity, or they're really
certain that they want to be trans and I mean transgender,
they're actually transitioning sometimes that the drag king and the
(03:23):
drag queen is the safest place for them to maybe
feel like they're part of something. It might be where
they start out either you know what I mean, to
see what it feels like to be in that persona,
to feel what it's like, to understand what they're feeling
is and whether they feel like they're you know, they're
(03:44):
confused about their gender, they want to try something, so
in some ways drag, drag king and drag queen is
also a safe place for transgender Yeah, is it?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I wonder where the fear has come from. And because
you know, even my even my dear old, deeply Catholic,
deeply conservative dad, you know, went to went to see
Diamond Lille. Now I'd completely forgotten about that until you
mentioned Marcus Craig was the entertainer, wasn't it? And and
(04:21):
you know supported Marilyn Wearing, you know, and when when
she was outed by by Truth newspaper there was mutterings
in this deeply conservative, you know electorate in which she lived,
the bloody not on and you know you wouldn't that's
outrageous that they go that the media are going to
poke around in her private life. There was an acceptance
even if you didn't understand it. But is it because
(04:43):
there are so many strident voices telling people how they
should live from all across the spectrum or I just
don't understand where the why we've gone backwards?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Well, I just think that you know, there's all there's
lots of people to take in. You know, we've got
all the women in sport, the transgender, all that sort
of stuff. That's got a lot of anti stuff going
on with but at no stage as anyone able to
question how people feel about their sexuality. That's the bottom line,
if that's how you feel it's right for you, then
(05:17):
it's right for you because it's got nothing to do
with anybody else. And you're right if you don't want
to take your kids to the to the to the
drag king show at the library. I mean, it's not
meant to frighten children. I mean kids are frightened of
Santa Claus and clowns before they're fronten of a drag queen.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It's the feathers and the sequence and the fun and
like I called them unicorns on two feet, and that's
what they kind of are advocates.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
They say, the problem is the problem now is what
we've got this. It's this great fear that the drag
queens and the drag kings and all this transcender stuff
they think that leads to the Unfortunately, religion has really
made that look like we're all terrible, and they sometimes
(06:03):
associate child.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Abuse for that, which is rich coming from church.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Leaders, totally rich. If there was a thing that was
put out on Facebook the other day that says from
twenty nineteen ninety nine through to twenty twenty two, drag queens,
no one convicted of childs twenty five church leaders convicted.
I close my case walk away. Well, you know what,
(06:29):
we've only had absolute love. We've had this, you know,
the site where Linda put the message up after the
big we call the Pride Ponsonby incident now because we
don't want to meet. None of their names were nothing
but love, support, encouragement, all of that stuff unbelievable. I
(06:51):
think every single news ellen who's has common sense, they
just have said, what's all this about? It's so stupid?
And if the thing about it too is that it's
drag came and drag queens. They've all been there, has
always been a part of the gay movement, and a suddenly,
(07:13):
you know, it's one really interesting group of people who
are now making us bad. Because when they make the
drag kings bad or the drag queen's bad, that's our
gay community. And what happens is you we have to
stand up. Yeah, you know, we identify as vision, but
(07:34):
we are strongly involved and identifying with the people who
we know that needs support. It's not about ever about
isolating one group from another, you know, is this is
what Trump is doing. He isolates one group from the
rest of the world to say they're they're worse than us.
(07:54):
And this is exactly what our our our ridiculous you
know religious community is doing. They're isolating and making those
people wrong, and just is so not on, you know,
it's just so not on the people that disrupted the
Pride March. They're the most dangerous gang in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, I'd like if you had said, if we had
said we'd be having this discussion in twenty twenty five,
I don't think I'd have given up all hope. Like
in the in the eighties and nineties, it was inclusive
and vibrant and fun. And where has it all gone
(08:43):
so horribly wrong?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
It's hard to No. I think I think people are
just maybe we don't march with march anymore. I can
tell you that. So you know, we're all we're all
in undated with our social media and maybe that's where
it's messed up a little bit. You know. Well, well,
you know, I think you know, at some point in time,
(09:09):
at the point especially a we are what prove what
is amore really disturbing?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, And I suppose back in the day, if you
felt strongly about something, you had to articulate an argument.
You have to come up with cogent reasons for or
against it. You had to look the person in the
eye when you were espousing your views, and nowadays you
don't have to do that. You can go into a
little echo chamber and just.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
You know, I mean, well, well, well, you know, if
we haven't performed for a very long time, because we've
both been a bit unwell for too long to even
think about entertaining the idea of we've done it. We've
done a couple of gigs and that's been part you know, yeah,
both and to you know, dabble in the step and
(10:03):
foot on stage again. And it was quite exciting. But
does that mean that, you know, well we expect to
be you know, well they stare on the help tuns
because we dress up as Ken and Ken. I mean,
it's really, it's just so stupid. Those characters were designed
to show this great, this real pe wee iconsert of thing,
(10:26):
you know, and they've become you know, synonymous with us,
those characters, and in some ways they were never deemed
to be drag king. They were a character that we made.
But if you talk to the drag Queens and the
Dad Queens are characters that they play too. They believe
(10:46):
strongly in their craft. Their costumes are amazing. It's all
about entertainment, you know. The drag Queens and the dagon
Kings are all about entertainment. Now now suddenly more political
to do with honestly a lot of us to do
with religion putting down the gay community, and yet few
(11:08):
of you did before. That's that's really rich coming from me.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, and the fact that there are fewer people, you know,
identifying as Christian than ever before. So I don't get
it either. I Dame Jewels, I wish you well and
I hope you're feeling better soon, and thank you for
the wonderful people too.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Is that the gay community has only ever bought their
battles with love for the violence.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Thank you, Dame Jewels. Dame Jewels top one half of
the iconic Top Twins.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to news
talks that'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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