July 31, 2024 • 10 mins
Dave Letele is a former rugby league player, retired professional boxer, and community and social activist.
He’s retracing his personal and confronting journey with gangs, addiction, and alcohol in his documentary series ‘Heavyweight’, uncovering rarely told stories and doing a “vital reality check” on life in Aotearoa.
Tonight’s episode focuses on the rise of gangs and associated criminal activity, investigating the complexities of gang culture in New Zealand, along with its impact on communities and individuals.
Letele joined Kerre Woodham to give a bit of a preview of what the episode has to offer, as well as well as look at a few of the challenges gang members face in moving away from that life.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerrywood of Morning's podcast from News
Talks B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Dave Lettelly is back tonight with a powerful new chapter
of Heavyweight with Dave Lettelly, focusing on the rise of
gangs and associated criminal activity. Heavyweight with Dave Lettelly Patched
investigates the complexities of gang culture in New Zealand, examining
its impact on individuals and communities, or seeking to understand
(00:32):
why people join gangs and the challenges they face and
moving away from that life. And Dave joins me now.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
More in a Dave Morning carry, how's it going?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Well?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Good, good, thank you. I mean, this isn't just an
academic look at gangs and gang culture, is it. This
is from the inside out.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Really yeah. I think, you know, given my background and
you know, the work we do in the community, people
open up a lot more.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
So.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
We've got the academics, but we've also got you know, past,
past gangsters, current you know, we've got the police commissioner,
you know, lots of different professionals, researchers. It's it's a
really well rounded documentary, but it's it's the people that
are talking would not normally talk to a journalist the
(01:20):
way that they open up to me. So it's pretty amazing,
including your dad. Yeah, it was a I mean, I
mean I've interviewed the Prime Minister and I was more
nervous for that interview than i've I mean, it's it's
the first time we've sat down for an hour. It's
the longest time we've ever we've ever talked in our lives.
(01:41):
It's just we don't have that kind of relationship. So
I'd sort of treated it as a counseling session for me.
You know. I asked them, you know, when you got out,
why why why I didn't? Wasn't I allowed to come back?
You know? I felt like I was being punished.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Because you were sent to Australia when you're dad to
Australia to stay with family when you're dad went to prison,
And what did he say when you Why couldn't you
come home?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I just just said he wasn't ready, you know. And
I asked them, you know, how did you feel when
you know, you visited hospital when I was twenty one
and you came to hospital with two prison guards and
after I stabbed myself, how did you feel? You know?
I wanted to know, you know, what were your thoughts,
and you know, you just said it felt like a failure,
and look, it was a it was a it was
(02:29):
a tough conversation, but at least I got some answers
and stuff that I'd been wanting to ask for a
long time.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Probably a lot of children of gang members would have
those same questions.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Yeah, and you know, I mean it's quite topical. It's
always topical that this gangs, all the situations that are
going right at the moment. But you know, I was lucky.
I still had a good family, you know, outside of
my two my dad and my uncle that went the
wrong way, I had a good family that could help,
that could pluck me out of this environment. Most of these,
most of these, most of these children don't. And that's
(03:01):
what we have to understand here. This is what this
is what we go into here. When we asked, you know,
all the gangs, current and former, you know, would you
want your children joining the games? They all said no, yeah,
you know, and and you know, everyone coming from different angles,
even the press commissioner, everyone agreed as how how complex
and the reasons are that people people join gangs. But
(03:22):
it all comes down to, you know, to poverty, a
lot of the times, you know, and so everyone's coming
from different angles, but they could all agree on that.
And I think that if if if we don't take
a different approach, you know, would look at what's happening
wide or if we don't take a different approach, that
the last government that wasn't working, what this government's doing
is not. I don't think it's going to work because
(03:44):
no one's thinking long term. It's going to be a
cross party approach. I think when you think long term
so that things are better for the grandchildren, you know,
it's not it's not three years. We're going to have
to admit and understand this is going to be a long,
hard journey and we're going to there's not going to
be all these winds along the way. But by the
time these grand kids come around and our grand kids
(04:05):
are are working and out there in the world, it's
going to be a better place.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
You really really hope. So because there isn't a lot
to offer in gang life, Like I know, they're being
very clever some of the gang chapters to market gang
life has been all hot chicks and fast motorbikes and
loads of cash and blink. But it's like a pyramid scheme.
It's only the ones at the top that do it,
the ones that grunts. The grunts at the bottom are
(04:33):
the ones that suffer horribly one.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Hundred percent, you know. And you know the police commissioner
was talking about how you know how how high the
suicide rate is for gang members. It's and that's another thing.
All these all the guys that were on said, you know,
the same thing when I asked, what would you say
to a young kid looking up wanting that gold necklace
and the gold chains, and the bikes and the cars
(04:55):
and the girl, what would you say to them? So
it's a lot different to what you see in a
ten second TikTok reil. Don't You don't realize it until
you're in it.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Were you either tempted to get in it as a
short cut to wealth.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I had doubled in that world. You know, it's just
and so I know firsthand. I mean, I got on
it because that's what I saw as a kid. So,
you know, growing up, all I saw was when times
were tough for my family. I didn't see them cut
sky off and stopped going up dinner and budget. I
saw them sell drugs and rob so you know, when
times got tough for me, I went back to what
(05:32):
I saw as a kid. But again I lost everything,
you know. And that's why when we talked to these
young kids that we work with, we tell them the
other side of crime, that it takes everything. And if
you're lucky, you have your family there, you know, to
help you at the end. But a lot of times
you don't. You know, we've we've helped, Like the answer
is the community there. You know, I keep harping on
(05:54):
about this. You've just got to support the community groups.
You know, we just helped. We got a young kid
that came to us earlier in the year, was a
ram raider, brought to us by a social worker, and
we just got them job. You know. We put them
through our Attitude and Set program that's unfunded. Put him
through that for twelve weeks, wrapped around some good support
systems around him, and now he's working through our recruitment company,
(06:17):
you know, and he's and he's always requested. He's one
of the best workers we have. You know. It's just
giving them a glimpse into what life can be like.
You don't have to be a drug dealer, tate to
do well.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
No, but you also don't have to be you know,
you said before that it comes down to poverty, but
poor people aren't criminals.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah, one hundred percent, But a lot of it's just
that when when a lot of when a lot of
these kids like myself, when we're growing up and we
don't have any other don't have any positive role models
around us, and we want to be rich. We we
hate you know, where we're at a lot of the times,
who are we seeing with with what we consider as success.
(06:54):
And that's why we've got to get more of these
role models like like myself. That's why we do all
these school programs with me and many back today and BBN,
we've got to get more of these people would lift
experiences out into the community to these kids to let
them know it's this life is not what it's cracked
up to be. Don't be fooled. Don't be fooled. You
know it's it's full of misery and pain and heartbreak,
(07:15):
but they never show that part.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
But you know, there are plenty of role models that
exist in the Mari and Pacifica community. But what concerns
me is that right now it seems that there's only
one type of role model that's acceptable, and that's one
on the left. You cannot tell me that somebody like
Tama Portaka or Karen Shaw or James Meager or Shane
Jones is not a role model for young Mary and Pacifica.
(07:41):
And yet somehow and the like say they're not good enough,
they're not the right Mary.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah. And that's when I was listening earlier and heard
what was going on with Karen Shaw and my heartbreak
for it, because I feel sometimes the same way, you know,
cause I can't speak Marie. I can't speak some more
so sometimes I feel like I'm not Farman and and
not Mary enough. So I completely understand, you know, And
I don't understan and why it has to be, you know,
(08:08):
so far left or so far right. I just think,
why don't Why don't we just celebrate success, encourage our
children to be as successful and as rich as possible,
celebrate that, but then also not forget to help the
less fortunate. I just don't. I don't get. That's what's
so frustrating to me, you know, it's it's it's disheartening.
I don't understand why we can't we can't all think
that way?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
What do you hope that viewers get out of watching
Patch tonight, Dave.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I hope you know some understanding. But I also hope
that young kids and young teenagers and families at a
crossroad of what to whether to go right or left,
I can see it and understand that this that this
life is not all it's cracked up to be, you know,
and and what it does bring, and that's that's pain
and misery, and that there are you know that it
(08:55):
is even for current members, there is a way to
get out. You know. We we had a former commancero
on there, and these guys don't talk to anyone, you know,
and we ask them, I asked them, why do you leave?
And he said, I just have I had one foot
in one camp with God and I had another foot
with the club, and you can't be both. And he
looked in the mirror. He looked in the mirror, said
what have I become? And that was it, you know,
(09:18):
he went in the same door he went out, you know.
So that's how you've got to do it. You can't
hide away from this, but it is possible to leave.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, But I mean, as as you well know, as
your family knows, there's a bloody heavy price to pay
if you if you leave and the gang doesn't want
you to leave.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah, a lot of the times off the family or
family friends and have come to my father and uncle
and asked that, you know, how can you help me leave?
So you've got to you're man enough to join. You
have to be man enough to leave. You've got to
go in the same way. You know, you've got to
leave the same way you went in. That's the that's
the only way. And you take whatever it is and
then you're done. You know that that's the only way.
(10:00):
There's a lot that you just can't hide.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
You know, no, there are consequences there for every choice
you make. Dave, thank you and thank you very much
for taking the time to talk to us and be
a great. Watch again Heavyweight with Dave Lttelly Patched. It's
on tonight eight forty five TV and Z two TV
and Z Plus.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
For more from Carry Wooden Mornings, listen live to News
Talks b from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Kerrywood of Morning's podcast from News
Talks B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Dave Lettelly is back tonight with a powerful new chapter
of Heavyweight with Dave Lettelly, focusing on the rise of
gangs and associated criminal activity. Heavyweight with Dave Lettelly Patched
investigates the complexities of gang culture in New Zealand, examining
its impact on individuals and communities, or seeking to understand
(00:32):
why people join gangs and the challenges they face and
moving away from that life. And Dave joins me now.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
More in a Dave Morning carry, how's it going?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Well?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Good, good, thank you. I mean, this isn't just an
academic look at gangs and gang culture, is it. This
is from the inside out.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Really yeah. I think, you know, given my background and
you know, the work we do in the community, people
open up a lot more.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
So.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
We've got the academics, but we've also got you know, past,
past gangsters, current you know, we've got the police commissioner,
you know, lots of different professionals, researchers. It's it's a
really well rounded documentary, but it's it's the people that
are talking would not normally talk to a journalist the
(01:20):
way that they open up to me. So it's pretty amazing,
including your dad. Yeah, it was a I mean, I
mean I've interviewed the Prime Minister and I was more
nervous for that interview than i've I mean, it's it's
the first time we've sat down for an hour. It's
the longest time we've ever we've ever talked in our lives.
(01:41):
It's just we don't have that kind of relationship. So
I'd sort of treated it as a counseling session for me.
You know. I asked them, you know, when you got out,
why why why I didn't? Wasn't I allowed to come back?
You know? I felt like I was being punished.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Because you were sent to Australia when you're dad to
Australia to stay with family when you're dad went to prison,
And what did he say when you Why couldn't you
come home?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I just just said he wasn't ready, you know. And
I asked them, you know, how did you feel when
you know, you visited hospital when I was twenty one
and you came to hospital with two prison guards and
after I stabbed myself, how did you feel? You know?
I wanted to know, you know, what were your thoughts,
and you know, you just said it felt like a failure,
and look, it was a it was a it was
(02:29):
a tough conversation, but at least I got some answers
and stuff that I'd been wanting to ask for a
long time.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Probably a lot of children of gang members would have
those same questions.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Yeah, and you know, I mean it's quite topical. It's
always topical that this gangs, all the situations that are
going right at the moment. But you know, I was lucky.
I still had a good family, you know, outside of
my two my dad and my uncle that went the
wrong way, I had a good family that could help,
that could pluck me out of this environment. Most of these,
most of these, most of these children don't. And that's
(03:01):
what we have to understand here. This is what this
is what we go into here. When we asked, you know,
all the gangs, current and former, you know, would you
want your children joining the games? They all said no, yeah,
you know, and and you know, everyone coming from different angles,
even the press commissioner, everyone agreed as how how complex
and the reasons are that people people join gangs. But
(03:22):
it all comes down to, you know, to poverty, a
lot of the times, you know, and so everyone's coming
from different angles, but they could all agree on that.
And I think that if if if we don't take
a different approach, you know, would look at what's happening
wide or if we don't take a different approach, that
the last government that wasn't working, what this government's doing
is not. I don't think it's going to work because
(03:44):
no one's thinking long term. It's going to be a
cross party approach. I think when you think long term
so that things are better for the grandchildren, you know,
it's not it's not three years. We're going to have
to admit and understand this is going to be a long,
hard journey and we're going to there's not going to
be all these winds along the way. But by the
time these grand kids come around and our grand kids
(04:05):
are are working and out there in the world, it's
going to be a better place.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
You really really hope. So because there isn't a lot
to offer in gang life, Like I know, they're being
very clever some of the gang chapters to market gang
life has been all hot chicks and fast motorbikes and
loads of cash and blink. But it's like a pyramid scheme.
It's only the ones at the top that do it,
the ones that grunts. The grunts at the bottom are
(04:33):
the ones that suffer horribly one.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Hundred percent, you know. And you know the police commissioner
was talking about how you know how how high the
suicide rate is for gang members. It's and that's another thing.
All these all the guys that were on said, you know,
the same thing when I asked, what would you say
to a young kid looking up wanting that gold necklace
and the gold chains, and the bikes and the cars
(04:55):
and the girl, what would you say to them? So
it's a lot different to what you see in a
ten second TikTok reil. Don't You don't realize it until
you're in it.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Were you either tempted to get in it as a
short cut to wealth.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I had doubled in that world. You know, it's just
and so I know firsthand. I mean, I got on
it because that's what I saw as a kid. So,
you know, growing up, all I saw was when times
were tough for my family. I didn't see them cut
sky off and stopped going up dinner and budget. I
saw them sell drugs and rob so you know, when
times got tough for me, I went back to what
(05:32):
I saw as a kid. But again I lost everything,
you know. And that's why when we talked to these
young kids that we work with, we tell them the
other side of crime, that it takes everything. And if
you're lucky, you have your family there, you know, to
help you at the end. But a lot of times
you don't. You know, we've we've helped, Like the answer
is the community there. You know, I keep harping on
(05:54):
about this. You've just got to support the community groups.
You know, we just helped. We got a young kid
that came to us earlier in the year, was a
ram raider, brought to us by a social worker, and
we just got them job. You know. We put them
through our Attitude and Set program that's unfunded. Put him
through that for twelve weeks, wrapped around some good support
systems around him, and now he's working through our recruitment company,
(06:17):
you know, and he's and he's always requested. He's one
of the best workers we have. You know. It's just
giving them a glimpse into what life can be like.
You don't have to be a drug dealer, tate to
do well.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
No, but you also don't have to be you know,
you said before that it comes down to poverty, but
poor people aren't criminals.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah, one hundred percent, But a lot of it's just
that when when a lot of when a lot of
these kids like myself, when we're growing up and we
don't have any other don't have any positive role models
around us, and we want to be rich. We we
hate you know, where we're at a lot of the times,
who are we seeing with with what we consider as success.
(06:54):
And that's why we've got to get more of these
role models like like myself. That's why we do all
these school programs with me and many back today and BBN,
we've got to get more of these people would lift
experiences out into the community to these kids to let
them know it's this life is not what it's cracked
up to be. Don't be fooled. Don't be fooled. You
know it's it's full of misery and pain and heartbreak,
(07:15):
but they never show that part.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
But you know, there are plenty of role models that
exist in the Mari and Pacifica community. But what concerns
me is that right now it seems that there's only
one type of role model that's acceptable, and that's one
on the left. You cannot tell me that somebody like
Tama Portaka or Karen Shaw or James Meager or Shane
Jones is not a role model for young Mary and Pacifica.
(07:41):
And yet somehow and the like say they're not good enough,
they're not the right Mary.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah. And that's when I was listening earlier and heard
what was going on with Karen Shaw and my heartbreak
for it, because I feel sometimes the same way, you know,
cause I can't speak Marie. I can't speak some more
so sometimes I feel like I'm not Farman and and
not Mary enough. So I completely understand, you know, And
I don't understan and why it has to be, you know,
(08:08):
so far left or so far right. I just think,
why don't Why don't we just celebrate success, encourage our
children to be as successful and as rich as possible,
celebrate that, but then also not forget to help the
less fortunate. I just don't. I don't get. That's what's
so frustrating to me, you know, it's it's it's disheartening.
I don't understand why we can't we can't all think
that way?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
What do you hope that viewers get out of watching
Patch tonight, Dave.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I hope you know some understanding. But I also hope
that young kids and young teenagers and families at a
crossroad of what to whether to go right or left,
I can see it and understand that this that this
life is not all it's cracked up to be, you know,
and and what it does bring, and that's that's pain
and misery, and that there are you know that it
(08:55):
is even for current members, there is a way to
get out. You know. We we had a former commancero
on there, and these guys don't talk to anyone, you know,
and we ask them, I asked them, why do you leave?
And he said, I just have I had one foot
in one camp with God and I had another foot
with the club, and you can't be both. And he
looked in the mirror. He looked in the mirror, said
what have I become? And that was it, you know,
(09:18):
he went in the same door he went out, you know.
So that's how you've got to do it. You can't
hide away from this, but it is possible to leave.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, But I mean, as as you well know, as
your family knows, there's a bloody heavy price to pay
if you if you leave and the gang doesn't want
you to leave.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah, a lot of the times off the family or
family friends and have come to my father and uncle
and asked that, you know, how can you help me leave?
So you've got to you're man enough to join. You
have to be man enough to leave. You've got to
go in the same way. You know, you've got to
leave the same way you went in. That's the that's
the only way. And you take whatever it is and
then you're done. You know that that's the only way.
(10:00):
There's a lot that you just can't hide.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
You know, no, there are consequences there for every choice
you make. Dave, thank you and thank you very much
for taking the time to talk to us and be
a great. Watch again Heavyweight with Dave Lttelly Patched. It's
on tonight eight forty five TV and Z two TV
and Z Plus.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
For more from Carry Wooden Mornings, listen live to News
Talks b from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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