Gaven Martin: Massey University Distinguished Maths Professor on the Government's math tutoring trial

A math professor believes the Education Minister deserves kudos for their new maths programme. 

The Government's announced 2000 Year 7 and 8 students will take part in a programme aiming to boost math achievement over the first two terms of next year. 

Erica Stanford says it's designed to give more Kiwi kids confidence in mathematics. 

Massey University Distinguished Maths Professor Gaven Martin told Kerre Woodham that this plan can start to address many of the problems thy had.  

He says that while there may have been a fair bit of resistance, at the end of the day, they turned around and delivered something that’s beneficial for the whole country.  

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from News
Talk SEDB.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
The Education Minister as we have been discussing as trialing
a new program aiming to boost intermediate students' maths ability.
The government's announced two thousand year seven and eight students
will take part over the first two terms of next year.
Erica Stanford says the intensive trial will use small group
tutoring and supervised online tuition for thirty minutes up to

(00:33):
four times a week for each child. Massive University Distinguished
Maths Professor Gavin Martin joins me, Now a very good
morning to you.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Good morning to you too.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Now your were chair of the Royal Society of New
Zealand Maths Advisory Panel to the Education Ministry. You've delivered
your report. Was this part of the report.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
This specific initiative wasn't. It wasn't. But I think that
the initiative as part of the themes coming out of
the report of the things that needed to be done
to prove mathematics education the schools in New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
I think the last time we spoke, you said you
were appalled at the draft curriculum that you saw regarding
maths from the previous offering. Is this current administration going
in the right way?

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Well, actually, I think we have to give a big
shout out to Erica Stanford here and some of the
writers on board of the team, in particular Audrutan. I
think they've got almost a world class document that we
can work with and begin to address many of the
problems that we had. I think a lot of the
social engineering and those sorts of things critical maths that

(01:50):
were in the draft document I said, have gone. I
think that the Minister must have put a foot down
about martyr and Maori, because there's very little of that
now in the mathematics curriculum, and it really is a
reflection of the internationality and usefulness over thousands of years

(02:11):
from mathematics, and so maybe we begin to teach them
about history and so forth to the.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Students and hopefully that'll be replicated in the science curriculum,
which also drew the same criticism from distinguished fellows and professors.
One can hope, right how long? I mean, you're right though,
you know, it's still the same ministry. So how were

(02:38):
they able to turn around so quickly? Was it just
the suasiveness of the Minister.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
Persuasiveness might be euphemism for what had to happen, but
I think that there was quite a lot of resistance.
But in the end of the day, they turned around
and they delivered something that I think is beneficial for
the whole country. It is still a long way to go,
of course, because the implementation of such things is going

(03:09):
to be key. Professional development needs to really succeed. The
teaching counsel has to get there. Am I allowed to
say using gear and start teaching teachers mathematics? Greater knowledge
is needed in the classroom, and you know that's going

(03:31):
to be tough. And also there are significant changes in
the way mathematics is going to be taught. There's a
lot more intentional teaching going on, are less in class streaming,
and you know, everyone thinks that rote learning is a
bad term, but I don't. I think we need to

(03:51):
develop those girls in children to build fluency.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
And dropped out of book? Have we got you?

Speaker 3 (03:58):
And even if you don't build from the foundation, to
have the foundation is a great thing.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
You're sorry just out there a bit. I mean, the
only way I'd know that my time's table, you know,
twelve twelve, one hundred and footy is by wrote. You
sit there and you learn it by wrote, And there's
nothing wrong with that as a basis for then, as
you say, using it as a foundation to learn more
about math, it can go in so many different directions

(04:25):
as long as you've got the fundamental skills there.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
It's absolutely true. And where in the world is there
a discipline a job with that. If you don't learn
the foundations, you're going to succeed wildly. You know, give
me a break. You really need to know those things.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
I really, I just so feel for that cohort of
young people that have come through school have had to
go through COVID. I mean the young ones coming up
now who are just entering primary school now. I think
we may be just in time to save them. And
COVID didn't affect them as much as it did their
older brothers and sisters. But that cohort of kids, is

(05:06):
there anything we can do for them who have come
through in the last ten years, come through the education
system in the last ten years, What on earth can
we do with them?

Speaker 3 (05:16):
Yeah? Well, I think, you know, maybe it's not just COVID.
I think that the system in the ministry has failed
these children's over almost generations and we're suffering for it now.
I'm not sure what the solution is. There perhaps acts
more access to online learning and those sorts of things,

(05:38):
but you know, how to get to these people and
facial to get them into go down schools.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
It's crazy because it is, and I mean Erica Stanford
again said it's the cloak that protects kids from where
they begin life. You know, education is that magic cloak
that can take you places.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
Well, it's absolutely true. I mean, you know, as a parent,
what you give your kids in life. You give them
your values from being with you and around you, and
you give them an education and then you let them loose, right,
So you want that education to be as good as
it can possibly be. It's an incredibly empowering thing. And

(06:23):
many people have grown up poor and succeeded because of
the education that was given to them. Generations go and
we should not be denying kids these days that same opportunity.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
Absolutely, teaching counsel has agreed to live Math Century requirements
for new teachers. That's got to be a good thing.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah, all the way up to NCA level too. Yeah,
I'm afraid that you know, in most of the societies.
We like to compare ourselves. You know, you have to
have basically a master's degree in mathematics to teach mathematics.
So we're comparing a baseline of NCAA Level two, which

(07:09):
I have to say is a significant improvement to what
is the international expectation of teachers. That's a higher level degree.
Maybe stand a bit of a gap, don't you think?

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, there is. But then when you look at the
fact that a quarter of preschoolers can't count one to ten,
that's not the education ministry, that's not educators, that's parents.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yes, well, you know parents don't have math girls either
by and large. So you know, these sorts of things
become generational if they're not dealt with quickly. We have
a chance to set things back on the right path. Now,
it's not going to be quick. This is not all

(07:55):
going to be sorted by the next election. If we're lucky,
in a decade, we might be starting to see positive results.
It's not going to be quick though.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Sadly, okay, no, that's good to at least get a
time from I think ten years. You know, took twenty
years to stuff at ten years to hit us back
on the right track as okay, because I know that
half of twenty years ten. So there we go. Go me,
my and my education can't be a maths teacher. Thank

(08:32):
you so much. Professor Evan Martin Messi University, Distinguished Maths
Professor and the former chair of the Royal Society of
Mathematics New Zealand Advisory Panel.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
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