There's confidence the right balance can be found when it comes to housing intensification in Auckland.
A public meeting was held in Mt Eden last night, over proposals to allow 10 to 15-storey developments near transport hubs and town centres.
Most of the meeting was civil, but things got tense when a young planning student suggested older people were standing in the way of change.
Mt Hobson Group urban planning expert Hamish Firth told Kerre Woodham he thinks the city have high-rise buildings and keep the character.
He says Auckland has six months to a year to discuss this like adults, to get it right.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from News
Talks headb.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
As we've been discussing intensification looks set to loom large
as an issue in Auckland's upcoming local elections. A public
meeting was held in Mount head And last night over
proposals to allow ten to fifteen story developments near transport
hubs and town centers. Locals are concerned about high raise
apartments and the loss of special character status for hundreds
of villas and bungalows in the wider neighborhood. Mount Hobson
(00:34):
Group is a specialist urban planning and resource management consultancy.
Director Hamish Firth joins me now and a very good
morning to you morning.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Carry.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
People are around the country are really concerned that yes,
we need more houses, but we just don't know how
to do it properly.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
We need to plan, we need to prepare for density
because more people will come and more people want to
live in different ways. I think the problem we've had,
and maybe it's a lack of confidence, is Auckland had
plan change seventy eight, three or four years ago that's
being thrown out. We all saw what happened. It wasn't
good planning, and now we're looking for something different. I
think building along corridors. We've built a five billion dollar
(01:16):
railway station, it does make sense to intensify I think
what's been proposed, and I think we've got to thank
christ Bishop for at least providing a canvas that we
can critique and the Council for delivering effectively. What is
a discussion document that we can now start to provide
some vigor around yesterday's meeting in Mount Eden, where you've
(01:37):
got passionate young people, you've got people who are older
who may want to preserve their villas. I think we
can have both the high rise and keep our character
and provide the infrastructure. I think it can be done,
and we've got probably the next six months to a
year to discuss this like adults, to get it right.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Has there been any evidence that we've done it properly before?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
The Unitary Plan in twenty sixteen I think is a
very very good example of where a planning document that
looked towards the future to provide for different style of
living has.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Worked, but then it's just been overridden.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
It has, but if you look at only hunger before
you had one type of housing typology, mainly three or
four bedroom houses. Now you've got a range of one
and two bedroom apartments, you've got a range of terraces,
but you've still got pocketed amongst that family homes. So
the unitary plan under this new proposed plan change will remain,
(02:32):
but there is intensity around corridors, so from effectively Mount
Albert into the city. There's also and I think it's
very very important, and I listened to your last caller
about the flooding. Another really important part of the plan
change is they've said, look, there'll be no development here
because of flooding, and a lot of that has been
de intensified from a higher intensity down to a single
(02:52):
house zone.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
But wouldn't that flooding be mitigated if the proper infrastructure
was there before the houses had been built.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
It's difficult to cry over spilt milk. We can't look
back fifty or six years. So I think what they're
doing now, especially after Gabriel, is they're taking a common
sense approach and say, look, these aren't areas where we
should develop, let's deintensify them. I think that's a smart
move on that side. And I think if we come
back to what's been provided. Two million homes.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Two million. I know that's a lot of intensification.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Six million people, which is probably sixty seventy eighty years
of intensication is probably a bit much, but it's a
good starting point. We can now start to critique what's
being done and mold it to something that's going to
fit Auckland better. This is great, This is democracy at work.
We've got public meetings happening yesterday. Christine Fletcher, counselor for
Mount Albert, was there. Paul Goldsmith, the Minister for Auckland,
(03:49):
was there. That everyone's turning up and listening. And I
think as part of this listening and adding an infrastructure,
and I think that's a huge problem. You know, if
we're going to have this many people in that intense area,
how you're going to provide schools, hospitals. You've already got
buses coming down to Minion Road that are full. We've
got to think about this holistically, take time over the
next six months to get this right so that Auckland
can have a blueprint to grow further.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Around the country. I've had texts from people saying we
had a new development near us in totonger houses, roads,
limited amenities. By the time the school was built, it
was too small for the number of children, and then
they were taking away the playgrounds for classrooms. And then
Tony says Hamilton got it wrong with their intensification. Too
many people, too many cars, no parking. It changes the
(04:31):
social fabric of the area.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, I think we've got to go back to Kerry
old fashioned town planning that's forward looking. So here's where
we're going to grow. This is the area where a
school will go. This is how many people. This is
approximately where the roads go. So that probably requires Local
Government Act, Public Works Act and RIMA to be aligned.
Look out at Drury, you've got all you've got new
(04:55):
railway stations being built now, but none of the land
around each of those is zoned, so you're almost going
to have ghost stations. So also is while we're intense
flying around Mount Eden, while we're intense flying around new
Market and that corridor, it's also look at providing maybe
the government via a vehicle needs to provide the infrastructure
and then people pay it off over time as their
(05:17):
houses are built. You live out at Drury, they're expecting
fifty six thousand people to live there. That's effectively the
size of Napier, So we're going to have some green fields.
It'd be very good if we could get the infrastructure
locked and loaded. We can have some intensification done well
with a thought process over the next six months around
the corridor, and we can de intensify around flood areas.
We've been around a long time. We've grown up enough.
(05:38):
We can make this happen. I believe we can.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I'm amazed at your confidence and somewhat buoyed by it
because you deal with these people all the time. But
I just heard from two counselors who have been in
council for twelve years. They haven't been able to affect change,
positive change.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
I think where this has started from as a minister
who has rolled his slees and wants to get things done.
I've dealt with ministers since nineteen ninety one for the
environmental for rim on this, and I've never seen someone
so passionately engaged about trying to get this fixed. He's
not going to score an A plus. It's impossible. He's
too many moving parts. But what he's done is he
(06:18):
set down a blueprint and we're going to get that
we're going to modify that blueprint. And I think what
I found is if things come from the top, think
about this place at zed Beef, the boss is something
we do it. So what we've got as a leader,
we've got a leader with spine, We've got a leader
with purpose, and we've got a leader with determination. As
I said, he's not going to get an A plus,
but if he gets an A minus, he should be
given a knighthood because it's a very difficult subject to navigate.
(06:40):
So if it starts with him, you've got a mayor
of Auckland who wants to get things done. I think
that starts at the top, the people underneath will start
to see a pathway in a belief system. I think
probably we've lacked leadership up until now.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
But also there is an ideology a bit like within economics,
that there are schools of thought that prevail for a
while until another one replaces it. And that has happened
with town planners urban designers. We have got a whole
host of time planners and urban designers who don't think
like the Public Works Act, and they don't think like
(07:14):
the RMA, and that you know, they're visionaries.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
I've made comment about this about the degrees at universities
providing for planning are too narrow focused and probably two
inward looking at environmental effects. They need to have an
economic bent, they need to have a practical bed, and
they need to have an understanding of what happens in
the real world. You need a quarry to build a road,
you need a mine to make your iPhone. You know,
(07:38):
we've got to have them here. So if we're going
to have a quarry, how do we minimize effects of it?
If we're going to have a mind, how do we
minimize the effects of it. So I think what we
probably need is a higher level of degree, a better
education standard of planners so that when they leave it's
not just looking at the environmental effects. That should be
one of the things very important, but it should only
be one of the things that we'll look at.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
That's six seven years down the track, and we need
that design being done now.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yep. As I said, I think with the leadership we've
got in the room right now, we've got a very
opportunity to by blunt force, move this through a lot quicker.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Well, I feel marginally better talking to you, Hamish. I
feel marginally better hearing your confidence. Thank you very much
for your time. Hamish for Director, Mount Hobson Group, specialists
in urban planning and resource management.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
For more from carry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
News Talks A B from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from News
Talks headb.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
As we've been discussing intensification looks set to loom large
as an issue in Auckland's upcoming local elections. A public
meeting was held in Mount head And last night over
proposals to allow ten to fifteen story developments near transport
hubs and town centers. Locals are concerned about high raise
apartments and the loss of special character status for hundreds
of villas and bungalows in the wider neighborhood. Mount Hobson
(00:34):
Group is a specialist urban planning and resource management consultancy.
Director Hamish Firth joins me now and a very good
morning to you morning.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Carry.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
People are around the country are really concerned that yes,
we need more houses, but we just don't know how
to do it properly.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
We need to plan, we need to prepare for density
because more people will come and more people want to
live in different ways. I think the problem we've had,
and maybe it's a lack of confidence, is Auckland had
plan change seventy eight, three or four years ago that's
being thrown out. We all saw what happened. It wasn't
good planning, and now we're looking for something different. I
think building along corridors. We've built a five billion dollar
(01:16):
railway station, it does make sense to intensify I think
what's been proposed, and I think we've got to thank
christ Bishop for at least providing a canvas that we
can critique and the Council for delivering effectively. What is
a discussion document that we can now start to provide
some vigor around yesterday's meeting in Mount Eden, where you've
(01:37):
got passionate young people, you've got people who are older
who may want to preserve their villas. I think we
can have both the high rise and keep our character
and provide the infrastructure. I think it can be done,
and we've got probably the next six months to a
year to discuss this like adults, to get it right.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Has there been any evidence that we've done it properly before?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
The Unitary Plan in twenty sixteen I think is a
very very good example of where a planning document that
looked towards the future to provide for different style of
living has.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Worked, but then it's just been overridden.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
It has, but if you look at only hunger before
you had one type of housing typology, mainly three or
four bedroom houses. Now you've got a range of one
and two bedroom apartments, you've got a range of terraces,
but you've still got pocketed amongst that family homes. So
the unitary plan under this new proposed plan change will remain,
(02:32):
but there is intensity around corridors, so from effectively Mount
Albert into the city. There's also and I think it's
very very important, and I listened to your last caller
about the flooding. Another really important part of the plan
change is they've said, look, there'll be no development here
because of flooding, and a lot of that has been
de intensified from a higher intensity down to a single
(02:52):
house zone.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
But wouldn't that flooding be mitigated if the proper infrastructure
was there before the houses had been built.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
It's difficult to cry over spilt milk. We can't look
back fifty or six years. So I think what they're
doing now, especially after Gabriel, is they're taking a common
sense approach and say, look, these aren't areas where we
should develop, let's deintensify them. I think that's a smart
move on that side. And I think if we come
back to what's been provided. Two million homes.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Two million. I know that's a lot of intensification.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Six million people, which is probably sixty seventy eighty years
of intensication is probably a bit much, but it's a
good starting point. We can now start to critique what's
being done and mold it to something that's going to
fit Auckland better. This is great, This is democracy at work.
We've got public meetings happening yesterday. Christine Fletcher, counselor for
Mount Albert, was there. Paul Goldsmith, the Minister for Auckland,
(03:49):
was there. That everyone's turning up and listening. And I
think as part of this listening and adding an infrastructure,
and I think that's a huge problem. You know, if
we're going to have this many people in that intense area,
how you're going to provide schools, hospitals. You've already got
buses coming down to Minion Road that are full. We've
got to think about this holistically, take time over the
next six months to get this right so that Auckland
can have a blueprint to grow further.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Around the country. I've had texts from people saying we
had a new development near us in totonger houses, roads,
limited amenities. By the time the school was built, it
was too small for the number of children, and then
they were taking away the playgrounds for classrooms. And then
Tony says Hamilton got it wrong with their intensification. Too
many people, too many cars, no parking. It changes the
(04:31):
social fabric of the area.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, I think we've got to go back to Kerry
old fashioned town planning that's forward looking. So here's where
we're going to grow. This is the area where a
school will go. This is how many people. This is
approximately where the roads go. So that probably requires Local
Government Act, Public Works Act and RIMA to be aligned.
Look out at Drury, you've got all you've got new
(04:55):
railway stations being built now, but none of the land
around each of those is zoned, so you're almost going
to have ghost stations. So also is while we're intense
flying around Mount Eden, while we're intense flying around new
Market and that corridor, it's also look at providing maybe
the government via a vehicle needs to provide the infrastructure
and then people pay it off over time as their
(05:17):
houses are built. You live out at Drury, they're expecting
fifty six thousand people to live there. That's effectively the
size of Napier, So we're going to have some green fields.
It'd be very good if we could get the infrastructure
locked and loaded. We can have some intensification done well
with a thought process over the next six months around
the corridor, and we can de intensify around flood areas.
We've been around a long time. We've grown up enough.
(05:38):
We can make this happen. I believe we can.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I'm amazed at your confidence and somewhat buoyed by it
because you deal with these people all the time. But
I just heard from two counselors who have been in
council for twelve years. They haven't been able to affect change,
positive change.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
I think where this has started from as a minister
who has rolled his slees and wants to get things done.
I've dealt with ministers since nineteen ninety one for the
environmental for rim on this, and I've never seen someone
so passionately engaged about trying to get this fixed. He's
not going to score an A plus. It's impossible. He's
too many moving parts. But what he's done is he
(06:18):
set down a blueprint and we're going to get that
we're going to modify that blueprint. And I think what
I found is if things come from the top, think
about this place at zed Beef, the boss is something
we do it. So what we've got as a leader,
we've got a leader with spine, We've got a leader
with purpose, and we've got a leader with determination. As
I said, he's not going to get an A plus,
but if he gets an A minus, he should be
given a knighthood because it's a very difficult subject to navigate.
(06:40):
So if it starts with him, you've got a mayor
of Auckland who wants to get things done. I think
that starts at the top, the people underneath will start
to see a pathway in a belief system. I think
probably we've lacked leadership up until now.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
But also there is an ideology a bit like within economics,
that there are schools of thought that prevail for a
while until another one replaces it. And that has happened
with town planners urban designers. We have got a whole
host of time planners and urban designers who don't think
like the Public Works Act, and they don't think like
(07:14):
the RMA, and that you know, they're visionaries.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
I've made comment about this about the degrees at universities
providing for planning are too narrow focused and probably two
inward looking at environmental effects. They need to have an
economic bent, they need to have a practical bed, and
they need to have an understanding of what happens in
the real world. You need a quarry to build a road,
you need a mine to make your iPhone. You know,
(07:38):
we've got to have them here. So if we're going
to have a quarry, how do we minimize effects of it?
If we're going to have a mind, how do we
minimize the effects of it. So I think what we
probably need is a higher level of degree, a better
education standard of planners so that when they leave it's
not just looking at the environmental effects. That should be
one of the things very important, but it should only
be one of the things that we'll look at.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
That's six seven years down the track, and we need
that design being done now.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yep. As I said, I think with the leadership we've
got in the room right now, we've got a very
opportunity to by blunt force, move this through a lot quicker.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Well, I feel marginally better talking to you, Hamish. I
feel marginally better hearing your confidence. Thank you very much
for your time. Hamish for Director, Mount Hobson Group, specialists
in urban planning and resource management.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
For more from carry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
News Talks A B from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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