Kerre Woodham: As Shane Jones says, do we want lizards or jobs?

Lizards living near the Macraes gold mine in Central Otago run the very real risk of becoming lizard skin boots on the feet of Resources Minister Shane Jones. The self-described Matua is on the warpath because hundreds of workers are at risk of being laid off after a decision by the Department of Conservation to reject an application by the country's largest gold mine owner. Macraes Goldman in the Central Otago region, which is owned by the Canadian company OceanaGold, recently applied for a permit under the Wildlife Act to clear grass and vegetation on its current site in order to expand its operation. Last month, the Department of Conservation declined it, citing insufficient information about how the company would manage the relocation of lizards. Shane Jones is beside himself and while talking with Heather du Plessis Allan this morning on the Mike Hosking Breakfast, he labelled the decision makers in DOC a bunch of quislings.  

“These lizards are as common as acne on a teenager. That's the first thing. Secondly, they are scattered throughout the entirety of Otago. Every time a farmer does something on his or her land, they don't need a special wildlife permit. This piece of legislation is actually older than my good self, but the most important thing is, does the public want jobs in Otago? Does the public want $700 million worth of export revenue? I do. And I'm of the view that the decision makers in this case have just taken the public for a ride.” 

Well, he's promised he's going to do something about it and he's taking it to cabinet, and he'll override the DOC decision. Quisling, by the way, as a colloquial term for traito Vidkun Quisling was the Norwegian Minister of Defence who collaborated with the Nazis in the Second World War.  

This is not the first time man has collided with environment. Remember the powelliphanta augusta snail in Westport? Solid Energy wanted to mine the snail's habitat, and there was a real hue and cry over that. Aren't we lucky that we are a country where people will take to the streets for the protection of snails? The snails were moved to different areas. Some were taken under the protective wing of DOC, and if you were a powelliphanta augustus snail you really did have a better chance in the wild because an oopsie at DOC saw the snails frozen one fateful Labour weekend. They were being stored in a refrigerator to be put into a habitat that suited them. After a few ups and downs, it appears the snails have survived the disruption. Twenty years after they were moved, the population has grown to 1884 with an additional 2195 unhatched eggs, and the species had been observed on camera laying eggs for the first time. It was tough but they adapted and good for them.   

The Northern Expressway. Along with building the highway, NX2 —the coalition of companies that was charged with building the expressway— were also charged with building fishways. So inanga, or native white bait, could swim around the culverts and weirs that were required with the expressway. We've heard from your everyday builders and developers who have to count skinks and lizards before they can move earth on a project. In some cases they have to relocate the skinks and lizards. Sometimes they count the skinks and lizards, and the friendly neighbourhood cat reduces their number overnight by one or two. Then there's the taniwha, who've popped up during the construction of the Waikato Expressway and the Light Rail project.   

Shane Jones asked the question: do you want lizards or jobs? Do you want a company that's going to get some export earnings in to help us get back on track, or do you not? We're not talking about taking a thundering great excavator and churning up the ground and leaving it a sad and sorry toxic mess. Modern day mining is vastly different to what it used to be. It's not even as if Mcraes said buggar the l

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Morning's podcast from Newstalks.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Heab lizards living near the mccray's gold mine in Central
Otago run the very real risk of becoming lizard skin
boots on the feet of Resources Minister Shane Jones, The
self described martur as on the wall path because hundreds
of workers are at risk of being laid off after

(00:30):
a decision by the Department of Conservation to reject an
application by the country's largest gold mine owner, mccray's gold
Mine in the Central Otago region, which is owned by
the Canadian company Oceania Gold, recently applied for a permit
under the Wildlife Act to clear grass and vegetation on

(00:50):
its current site in order to expand its operation. Last month,
the Department of Conservation declined it citing insufficient information about
how the company would manage the relocation of lizards. Shane
Jones is beside himself and while talking with HEATHERA. Bissellen

(01:10):
this morning on the mic Asking Breakfast, he labeled the
decision makers and dock a bunch of quizlings.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
These lizards are as common as acne on a teenager.
It's first thing. Secondly, they are scattered throughout the entirety
of Otago. Every time a farmer does something on his
or her land, they don't need a special wildlife permit.
This piece of legislation is actually older than my good self.
But the most important thing is does the public want

(01:39):
jobs in Otago? Does the public want seven hundred million
dollars worth of export revenue? I do, and of the
view that the decision makers in this case, they have
just taken the public for a ryde.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, he's promised he's going to do something about it,
and he's taking it to cabinet. Now, I override the
doc decision. Quizzling, by the way, as a colloquial term
for traitor, in case he didn't know, he was the
Norwegian minute to a defense who collaborated with the Nazis
in the Second World War. So that's whereas quizzling vidkun
quizzling first name. If you're a quizzling, you're a traitor,

(02:16):
which I think is a harsh call. I think they're traitors,
perhaps misguided within the ranks of dock. And that is,
by the bye. This is not the first time man
has collided with environment. Remember the Powella Fanta augusta snail
in Westport, Solid Energy wanted to mine the snail's habitat,

(02:36):
and there was a real hue and cry over that,
aren't we lucky that we are a country where people
will take to the streets for the protection of snails.
What about the murdered babies, you might ask, Well, indeed
you might ask that. Nonetheless, snails were the reason for

(02:57):
the passion and the anger in Westport back in the
early two thousands. So the snails were moved to areas.
Some were taken under the protective wing of dock. And
if you were a powelophanta or augusta snarle, you really
did have a better chance in the wild because an
upsie at docks or the snails frozen one fateful labor weekend.

(03:21):
They are being stored in a refrigerator to be put
into a habitat that suited them, And yes, there was
a bit of a mistake with the setting on the refrigerator.
After a few ups and downs, it appears the snails
have survived the disruption. Twenty years after they were moved,
the population has grown to one eight hundred and eighty four,

(03:44):
with an additional two one hundred and ninety five unhatched eggs,
and the species had been observed on camera laying eggs
for the first time, so you know it was tough,
but they adapted, and good for them. They should be
able to keep on adapting, unlike pandas who don't. But
that's a whole other topic. The Northern Expressway a long

(04:05):
with building the highway NX two. The coalition of companies
that was charged with building the expressway, they were also
charged with building fish ways so Enunger or native white
bait could swim around the colvits and weirs that were
required with the expressway. So there's special little white bait

(04:29):
highways for the Enninger to swim down and hopefully they
will adapt to that so that they can live so
that we can eat them at a later stage. We've
heard from your everyday builders and developers who have to
count skinks and lizards before they can move earth on

(04:50):
a project. In some cases they have to relocate the
skinks and lizards. Sometimes they count the skinks and lizards
and the friendly neighborhood cat reduces their number overnight by
one or two. Then there's the tanifa who've popped up
during the construction of the Waikato Expressway and the light

(05:11):
rail project. You know, we have a lot going on
in this country, and it's great that we're not mine
baby mine at any cost. It's great that we understand
that we live, we should be living in a relationship

(05:35):
with the environment. However, when it comes to Central Otago,
that is an area that has been mine for as
long as humans have been around. Its natural mineral rich
resources have been extracted from the time man and woman
could extract them. This is not virgin ground. This is

(05:59):
not you know, an area that has never before been touched,
sort of pristine Bucolic wilderness. It's a place that has
been mined before and will be mined again. There are
nine hundred jobs at stake in Central Latago. The lizards
are not in any great unit that. It's not as

(06:20):
though if we mine there we'll never see another lizard
again as long as we live. I love a lizard,
don't get me wrong. I think they're fantastic little critters.
You know, they're great, But they can be relocated. In fact,
when I was looking up your ideal living conditions for lizards,

(06:41):
they don't like the very very cold weather. They'd probably
be delighted if they got put into a little dog
box and flow on to northern climes where it was
slightly more temperate, where they could bask on a rock
instead of shiver in a bush and the freezing cold
of central Latago. I mean, Shane Jones asked the question,

(07:04):
you're at lizards or jobs. Do you want a company
that's going to get some export earnings in to help
us get back on track or do you're not We're
not talking about taking a thundering great excavator and churning
up the ground and leaving it a sad and sorry
toxic mess. Modern day mining is vastly different to what

(07:28):
it used to be. The lizards all carefully, I mean,
it's not even as if McCrae says, bug of the lizards.
You know, they said, we will lovingly pick them up
and transport them somewhere where they can live in lizard
like they used to. But Doxy, no, no, no, that's

(07:49):
not the plan. We like, we can come on. You know,
when you get in an attitude like this from Doc,
then it hardens other people's attitudes. People might have said, yeah,
love a lizard, you know, good on them if they
can move them. That'd be great. But when you've got
doc saying no, that plan's not good enough, and they

(08:11):
stall and they ensure that companies have to pay more
and more and that people don't get to sign on
to work, and the McCrae's go, you know what stuff
it or not McCrae's, but Oceana decide, you know what's
stuff it's. They do the sums, they do the number crunching,
and they say it's not worth our while to be here,

(08:32):
and they leave. I don't think in this case that
it is the best thing for the New Zealand that
the lizards win.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
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