Kerre Woodham: Belief in boot camp participants is vital

Ten young men will enter boot camp 2.0, more officially known as the Military Style Academy pilot. Not much is expected of these ten.  

Critics argue that boot camps are cruel and unusual punishment that don't work and have never worked, so they won't work for this lot. Supporters of the boot camps really just want to see a few of the worst oiks punished with no real expectation that they'll be able to make anything of themselves, so really not much is expected of these ten young men.  

It is true that previous boot camps haven't resulted in miraculous life transformations. 

 Reoffending rates were in the 80 and 90 percents - but then very few programs that try to address serious youth offending result in miraculous life transformations however you go about it, life just doesn't work like that.  

If you look at the evaluation from the agencies, there's a program called Pae Whakatupuranga - low completion rate for programme, majority of those completed reporting making progress. Yeah. What is that? Most of the programmes didn't have strenuous evaluation (shock me) under the previous administration, so it was very hard, though a lot of it was self-reporting.  

They're expensive - anything to do with serious youth offending is expensive. When it came to Youth Services, participants were slightly more likely to be on a benefit and more likely to be serving a community sentence one to two years after the programme.  

So, you have to say that's not working, scrap that one. What does seem to be working is the LSV’s. You know, similar to the boot camp style. Participants have increased income, employment, educational participation, less time in prison, but also less educational qualifications and more time on a benefit.  

So, anything to do with young people is expensive, there is no guarantee that these young people will be able to suddenly have a road to Damascus experience and think yes, a life of being a worthwhile member of the community appeals to me. The key to the success of this new iteration of boot camps will be in the transitioning back into the community. If these young people go straight back to the environment that shape them into young criminals, then there's really not much hope for them. But this is where boot Camp 2.0 differs. There will be nine months where they will receive wrap-around care and that will be absolutely vital. So too though is having someone believe in them believe that they have inherent worth, that their lives are worthwhile.  

Karen Chhour is the Children's Minister and the minister in charge of implementing the boot camps and as a former child of the state, she says every young person is worth trying to save.  

“All kids can be helped, Mike. I could have been one of those kids. I could have gone down the wrong path, but I had that one person in my life that told me I was worth something and helped me to steer myself down the right pathway. So hopefully we can put that right person in front of this young person and show them that that actually somebody does care about them.” 

That was Karen Chhour talking to Mike Hosking this morning. I'd love to know for those of you who have had some experience with kids who have gone off the straight and narrow or were never on it in the first place, is it possible to turn your life around? If you have had no role models in your family, upon which you can model a life? Where going to school is an expectation. Where succeeding as an expectation. Where fulfilling your potential as an expectation. And you have the sort of environment that proactively encourages you to be the best you can be, that that thinks you're amazing.  

If you don't have that when you start where on Earth do you get it from? Is that the teachers? It always

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from News Talks.
He'd be.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Ten young men will enter boot Camp two point zero,
more officially known as the Military Style Academy Pilot. Not
much as expected of these ten. Critics argue that boot
camp's are cruel and unusual punishment that don't work and
have never worked, so they won't work for this lot.
Supporters of the boot camps really just want to see

(00:34):
a few of the worst or ex punished with no
real expectation that they'll be able to make anything of themselves.
So really, not much as expected of these ten young men.
It is true that previous boot camps haven't resulted in
miraculous life transformations. Reoffending rates are in the eighty percent

(00:56):
and ninety percents, But then very few programs that try
to address serious youth offending result in miraculous life transformations.
However you go on about it, life just doesn't work
like that. If you look at the evaluation from the agencies,
you know there's a program called pai Fukatupurula low completion

(01:21):
rate for program majority of those completed reporting making progress.
What is that most of the programs didn't have strenuous
evaluation shock me under the previous administration, so it was
very hard, though a lot of it was self reporting.
They're expensive. Anything to do with serious youth offending is expensive.

(01:48):
When it came to youth services, participants were slightly more
likely to be on a benefit and more likely to
be serving a community sentence one to two years after
the program, So you'd have to say that's not working.
Scrap that one. What does seem to be working? As
the LSVS similar to the boot camp style, participants have

(02:10):
increased income, employment, educational participation, less time in prison, but
also less educational qualifications and more time on a benefit.
So anything to do with young people is expensive. There
is no guarantee that these young people will be able
to suddenly have a Road to Damascus experience and think, yes,

(02:33):
a life of being a worthwhile member of the community
appeals to me. The key to the success of this
new iteration of boot camps will be in the transitioning
back into the community. If these young people go straight
back to the environment that shape them into young criminals,
then there's really not much hope for them. But this

(02:54):
is where boot Camp two point zero differs. There will
be nine months where they will receive wrap around care
and that will be absolutely vital. So too, though as
having someone believe in them, believe that they have inherent worth,
that their lives are worthwhile. Karen Suaw is the Children

(03:14):
Minister and the minister in charge of implementing the boot camps,
and as a former child of the state, she says,
every young person is worth trying to save.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
All kids can be helped, Mike. I could have been
one of those kids. I could have gone down the
wrong path, but I had that one person in my
life that told me I was worth something and helped
me to stem myself down the right pathway. So hopefully
we can put that right person in front of this
young person and show them that actually somebody does care

(03:44):
about them.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
And that was Karen, who are talking to Mike Hosking
this morning. I'd love to know for those of you
who have had some experience with kids who have gone
off the straight and narrow, or were never on it
in the first place, might have been you. Is it
possible to turn your life around if you have had

(04:08):
no role models in your family upon which you can
model a life where going to school is an expectation,
where succeeding is an expectation, where fulfilling your potential is
an expectation, and you have the sort of environment that
proactively encourages you to be the best you can be,

(04:32):
that thinks you're amazing. If you don't have that when
you start, where on earth do you get it from?
Is it the teachers? It always used to be education,
and good teachers used to be able to save kids
who were on a fast track to nowhere? Is it

(04:53):
having somebody, an authority look you in the eye and
say you are worth more than the life you are living.
We can help you change. Or is that all very
mister chips? You know, I mean everybody wants the miraculous
life transformation. Everybody wants the young people to believe in themselves,

(05:16):
to believe they have something worthwhile to offer, to be
able to participate in the community and take the best
that the community can offer while at the same time
giving back. But it just doesn't work like that. These
kids have got mountains to climb. There are people willing
to help them. There are also, I think people who

(05:37):
are making a good dollar who are setting up programs
without any kind of stringent evaluation. So I want to
make sure that any kind of program, including these boot camps, works,
and if the dollars aren't working, then put them somewhere else.

(06:00):
Is every child, every young offender? Do they have the
potential to turn their lives around? Do you have evidence
of that.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
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