Kerre Woodham: More MPs? I don't think so

I thought I'd start with the idea, the initiative, if you will, coming out of the think tank, the New Zealand Initiative. I love generally the work that they produce because even though you might not agree with the ideas that they put forward, there's generally a good discussion to be had. You hear the pros, you hear the cons, you think, mmm, okay. This one though, I'm not so sure.

More MPs. Increasing the number of MPs in our parliament from 120 to 170. Oh, I don't think so.

Our parliament may be small compared with other countries with similar populations, but until the New Zealand voting public has a seismic shift in the understanding of civics and civil society, and refocuses itself, if we all have to refocus on responsibilities over rights, then the fewer politicians, the better.

Senior fellow at the Initiative, Nick Clark, says though that we need more politicians because the ones we have are stretched too thinly, they're doing too much work, and that means there's a very real risk of poor legislation being drafted.We have difficulty with select committees in terms of the ability for them to properly scrutinise legislation, and that's partly because the MPs that we do have available are so thinly stretched.

We have MPs that end up on multiple committees. They can't give a good handle on what's going on, as much as they perhaps should. They get inundated with submissions. It's a good idea, I think, to just spread the load a bit more by having some more MPs.

Also, the electorates that we have are very large, both geographically and in population terms, and they're becoming increasingly difficult for MPs to service the rather complex and intense needs of the constituents.

So these extra MPs will be electorate MPs, not list ones.

Some will be, yep, yep, ... we'd be looking at the 50/50 split.

That was Senior Fellow at the New Zealand Initiative Nick Clark talking to Ryan Bridge this morning.

So a few more electorate MPs, but also more list MPs. No, thank you. No, thank you very much at all.

Maybe if every MP who was being paid by you and me, by the public purse, was pulling their weight, you could argue a case that they're overworked.  But while a large number take the job very seriously, there have been many instances of MPs across the house calling out others for laziness, for not understanding the job and not doing it. I think when we have MPs who are accountable to an electorate, there is a far greater sense of ownership.

So if you had more electorates, perhaps I could consider the case for it, but certainly, no. No more list MPs.

And in another New Zealand Initiative report, Dr James Kierstead says there's a disconnect between politicians and the people they represent, just as there is in many other democracies around the world. And his report, he says in recent years, governments have enacted a number of policies that were clearly opposed by most Kiwis. Three Waters legislation was forced through despite multiple polls consistently showing that a majority of New Zealanders opposed it. Only a year after Three Strikes legislation was repealed, a poll suggested nearly two-thirds of New Zealanders wanted it to stay on the books, and only 16% of them wanted it repealed. Nonetheless, when Labour came in, they did that anyway. And despite polls showing clear majorities of Kiwis supported the actual wording of the Treaty Principles Bill, it failed to progress beyond its second reading. Dr Kierstead says we need more direct input from citizens as the solution. Again, I'd say no, not until we have a better educated voting population. 

If you're listening to the show, I'm assuming you know a little bit about politics, you know a little bit about how parliament works. Some will have a greater understanding than others, but you have an interest in politics. You understand how legislation is enacted. You understand why we have a parliament. You understand the roles of MPs. But there are so many who don't.

They won't look at policies. They'll either vote tribally or they'll vote because somebody looks better than somebody else does. They won't be looking at what policy is going to mean further down the track. They'll just look at how it directly impacts on them, and that's okay if that's their interest. I just don't think that we are intelligent enough to be either represented well, because let's face it, MPs are drawn from us, and we are an imperfect pool of people. And I don't think we know how to keep them accountable.  I don't think we know what to expect of them. I don't think we pull them up when they're making grievous errors of judgment when drawing up their list MPs, looking at you, Greens.

Somebody said yesterday that the biggest threats to our society are apathy and ignorance, and I would agree.

Increasing the pool of MPs by another 50? We'

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from News Talks.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
He'd b I thought i'd start with the idea the initiative,
if you will, coming out of the think tank, the
New Zealand Initiative, I love generally the work that they
produce because even though you might not agree with the
ideas that they put forward, there's generally a good discussion
to be had. You hear the prosy, hear the cons
you think, okay this one, though, I'm not so sure.

(00:36):
More MPs, increasing the number of MPs in our parliament
from one hundred and twenty to one hundred and seventy. Oh,
I don't think so. Our parliament may be small compared
with other countries with similar populations, but until the New

(00:56):
Zealand voting public has a seismic shift in the understanding
of civics and civil society and focuses itself, if we
all have to refocus on responsibilities over rights, then the
fewer politicians the better. Senior fellow at the Initiative, Nick Clark,

(01:18):
says though, that we need more politicians because the ones
we have are stretched too thinly. They're doing too much
work and that means there's a very real risk of
poor legislation being drafted.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
We have difficulty with select committees in terms of the
ability for them to properly scrutinize legislation, and that's partly
because the MPs that we do have available are so
thinly stretched. We have MPs that end up on city
on multiple committees. They can't get a good handle on
what's going on as much as they perhaps should. They
get inundated with submissions. It's a good idea, I think,

(01:52):
to just spread the load a bit more by having
some more MPs. Also, the electrics that we have are
very large, both geographically and in population terms, and they're
becoming increasingly difficult for MP to service. The rather complex
and intensely.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
These extreme MPs will be electorate MPs, not list ones.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
Some of them will be yep, yep, yep. We'd be
looking to fifty sty.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
That was a senior fellow at the New Zealand Initiative,
Nick Clark talking to Ryan Bridge this morning. So a
few more electorate MPs, but also more list MPs. No
thank you, no, thank you very much at all. Maybe
if every MP who was being paid by you and
me by the public purse was pulling their weight. You

(02:40):
could argue a case that they're overworked. But while a
large number take the job very seriously, there have been
many instances of MPs across the house calling out others
for laziness, for not understanding the job and not doing it.

(03:02):
I think when we have MPs who are accountable to
an elect it there is a far greater sense of ownership.
So if you had more electorates, perhaps I could consider
the case for it, but certainly no, no more list MPs.
And in another New Zealand Initiative report, doctor James Kirstead

(03:26):
says there's a disconnect between politicians and the people they represent,
just as there is in many other democracies around the world.
And his report, he says in recent years, governments have
enacted a number of policies that were clearly opposed by
most Kiwis three Waters legislation was forced through despite multiple

(03:47):
polls consistently showing that a majority of New Zealanders opposed it.
Only a year after three Strikes legislation was repealed, a
poll suggested nearly two thirds of New Zealanders wanted it
to stay on the books, and only sixteen percent of
them wanted it repealed. Nonetheless, when labor came in, they
did that anyway, And despite polls showing clear majorities of

(04:13):
kiwis supported the actual wording of the Treaty Principal's Bill,
it failed to progress beyond its second reading. Doctor Kerr
said says we need more direct input from citizens as
the solution. Again, I'd say no, not until we have
a better educated voting population. You know, when you have

(04:36):
got people who don't understand how MMP works, but their
vote counts the same as yours. And mind, if you're
listening to the show, I'm assuming you know a little
bit about politics. You know a little bit about how
parliament works. Some will have a greater understanding than others,
but you have an interest in politics. You understand how

(05:00):
legislation is enacted. You understand why we have a parliament.
You understand the roles of MPs. But there are so
many who don't. I mean, my classic is the lovely
lady who rang in and said, isn't it nice we're
getting that weather man into parliament. I said, sorry, this

(05:22):
was some elections ago. You know that nice weather man.
I see he's coming into parliament. This was the Chap
from New Zealand first, and I said, well, who did
you vote for? And she said, oh, for Winston. So
it's nice to get this one though, And I said, well,
how did you well, I got, I put two ticks
to make doubly sure Winston would get in. Did you

(05:46):
not look at the people he was going to bring
with them?

Speaker 3 (05:48):
No?

Speaker 2 (05:48):
I just thought it was for Winston, you know. So
she thought he was getting extra MPs as like a
gift with purchase, you get Winston and all you get
the Ginsu knife of the former weather man. You did that,
and she voted, did what she was told and when
along and voted. And there are many many people like that.

(06:10):
They will either vote. They'll vote because they think they're
supposed to. They won't look at policies. They'll either vote tribally,
or they'll vote because somebody looks better than somebody else does.
They won't be looking at what policy is going to

(06:31):
mean further down the track. They'll just look at how
it directly impacts on them. And that's okay if that's
their interest. But I just don't think that we are
intelligent enough to be either represented well, because let's face it,

(06:54):
MPs are drawn from us, and we are an imperfect
pool of people. And I don't think we know how
to keep them accountable. I don't think we know what
to expect of them. I don't think we pull them

(07:15):
up when they're making grievous errors of judgment when drawing
up their list MPs. Looking at you, Greens. You know,
somebody said yesterday that the biggest threats to our society
are apathy and ignorance, and I would agree. Increasing the

(07:39):
pool of MPs by another fifty we're going to have
to do a lot better than that. Before I'd even
remotely concede to discussing that one.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
For more from carry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio