Kerre Woodham: On where the bootcamps stand now

The hooha over the efficacy of the boot camps hasn't gone away anytime soon, although over the weekend we did hear supporters of the scheme, along with the critics. I frightened the horses on Friday morning when I suggested that this iteration of the boot camps - and there have been many, as you know, had got off to a very bad start with one young man dying in a car accident and then two young people fleeing from their community placements.

Good news, the two youths have since been found. Bad news, the two were reportedly among four people taken into custody in Hamilton on Saturday night after a stolen Toyota Corolla was spotted on Cobham Drive in Hamilton.

The driver allegedly fled after being signaled to stop until the car hit road spikes. Then wielding a machete, tried to carjack another vehicle which drove away. They were then arrested along with two others, the fourth being found about 5 minutes later by a dog unit.

In a statement, Karen Chhour said the circumstances were disappointing, but she was relieved the pair had been found. She said the military style academy pilot programme is just that, a pilot programme. It consists of a three month in residence stay, then another nine months back out in the community with mentor support. Oranga Tamariki does not have the ability to restrict the movement of these young people or the choices they make once they're back in the community. The young people have been in either family or community placements where they're trusted to comply with their legal orders. End of statement.

And as we all agreed on Friday, nobody is expecting there to be a 100% success rate. These kids are extremely troubled, that's why they're there. The key will be the successful execution of the support they've been promised out in the community.

And over the weekend, as I say, we did hear from supporters of the scheme, along with the critics. Of those supporters was Phil O'Reilly, for Business NZ Chief Executive, but spoke to Heather du Plessis-Allan this morning as former welfare expert advisory group member. He says we should stick with the boot camps -they work. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood of Mornings podcast from News Talks.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
He'd be the hohoha over the efficacy of the boot camps.
Hasn't gone away anytime soon, although over the weekend we
did hear supporters of the scheme along with the critics.
I frightened the horses on Friday morning when I suggested
that this iteration of the boot camps, and there have
been many, as you know, had got off to a

(00:31):
very bad start, with one young man dying in a
car accident and one then two young people fleeing from
their community placements. Good news. The two youths have since
been found. Bad news. The two were reportedly among four
people taken into custody in Hamilton on Saturday night after
a stolen Toyota Corolla was spotted on Cobbham Drive and Hamilton.

(00:55):
The driver allegedly fled after being signaled to stop until
the car hit road spikes, then, wielding a machete, tried
to carjack another vehicle, which drove away. They were then
arrested along with two others, the fourth being found about
five minutes later by a dog unit. In a statement,
Karen Shaw said the circumstances were disappointing, but she was

(01:17):
relieved the pair had been found. She said the military
style academy pilot program is just that, a pilot program.
It consists of a three month in residence stay, then
another nine months back out in the community with mental support.
Rangatamariki does not have the ability to restrict the movement
of these young people or the choices they make once

(01:40):
they're back in the community. The young people have been
in either family or community placements where they're trusted to
comply with their legal orders. End of statement, and as
we all agreed on Friday, nobody is expecting there to
be a one hundred percent success rate. These kids are
extremely troubled, that's why they're there. The key will be

(02:03):
the successful execution of the support what they've been promised
out in the community and over the weekend, as I say,
we did hear from supporters of the scheme along with
the critics. One of those supporters was fill O'Reilly, who
is a Business New Zealand chief executive, but spoke to
Heather Topliced Allen this morning as former Welfare Expert Advisory

(02:25):
Group member, he says we should stick with the boot camps.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
They work so I was on one, not as a participant,
but as a sponsor of one in the John Key
government that version of it. I was not being necessarily advocate,
turning up to see this thing work, but probably at
the end of it, these kids had had their lives
change for the better and the only issue was afterwards
they just went back to their old ways and then
this new one, I'm told attempting to solve that issue.

(02:50):
But now, these are troubled kids, and they've had tough upbringings,
and so who knew that sometimes they might have gone
and do bad things. And I know that's a terrible
thing that's happen. But you can't blame the whole system
just on that issue. And I think we need to
see it through now because I can tell you from
personal s of seeing one of these things in action.
They work. These kids walk out better, sober, you know, together,

(03:12):
more team building, it's so on, and they just need
support to realigrate back into a better life ahead.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
The Chief Children's Commissioner, doctor Claire Akman, also came out
in support of them, and I must admit I was surprised,
which is my own stereotyping, my own prejudice about what
the Chief Children's Commissioner might think or not think. I
would have thought she'd be dead against them, not at all,
she said, and I quote, I don't think we could

(03:40):
say that the program is a failure. Their key here
is that we must not give up on these mocoporner range.
I've been to the Military style Academy Pilot. I spent
a few hours there while the rung Atta he were there.
I saw how hard the staff there were working to
put in place that multidisciplinary support around these young people.
She said. She saw how active and willing the boot

(04:02):
camp participants from both sides were, and hopes to see
it contend with some finding employment and furthering their education.
So you know, Sah, if somebody had said to you,
do you believe the Chief Children's Commissioners for or against
the boot camps? I bet there are a few of
you like Mayhood have said, Oh, she'd be dead against them,

(04:22):
not at all. Been there seen it, likes what she's
seen what she's seen. Currently, there's an amendment bill before
Parliament that creates a framework for the government's new attempt
at military style academies and looking at extending them. And
that's something that. Karen Shu also said that they're looking

(04:45):
at the new Young Serious Offender legislation that will give
them the ability to work longer with young people with
more complex needs, and she says, we've already seen successes
with this pilot. But people who have worked on the
boot camps, who I spoke to, who can't go on
the record, say it's not the length of time that

(05:05):
spend on the boot camps. While you're on the boot camps,
you're safe, You're insulated from all these stresses, from all
the temptations, from all the lure of your old life.
You're protected. People care about you, They give a damn
about you. You're important. While you're there, it's all about
you and what you need. And the kids do respond

(05:27):
to that. They want to be good, they want to
be sober, they want to get off the drugs, they
want to get away from the gangs, and then they
go home. Now, the difference between previous boot camps and
this one is that there has been the promise of
wrap around care, community support, that the young people will

(05:49):
get what they need to make the right choices. And
let's face it, and this is something that also came
out in the failures in the New Zealand youth prison
system Sending them to prison is not going to help.
I mean a try and get them in. There are
only two young adult units in prison and none for
young women, so I guess we've got to try everything

(06:14):
because there's nowhere else for these young people to go.
And there has been the promise of support for these
young people to help them make the right decisions. I
mean that we all had that kind of mentorship when
we were young people making dumb decisions. Most of us
made really stupid decisions when we were the age of

(06:34):
these young ones. We just weren't involved in crime. So
making dumb decisions multiplied by crime equals trouble. So I
don't know. I know that I said on Friday that
it got off to the worst possible start. That didn't
mean I don't believe in them. I just said it

(06:57):
wasn't a great look. So the bad starts happened. But
at least we've seen prominent supporters come out and say
why they believe in it and what needs to happen
for it to be a success, and that success does
not mean a one hundred percent strike grate in turning
all of these young lives around, how do you take

(07:17):
twenty percent and it would still be worth it.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
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