Kerre Woodham: What would it take to get police trust to 80%?

It's been 12 months since Richard Chambers became New Zealand's Police Commissioner. And by crikey, he's had a busy old time of it, a little bit of a poisoned chalice. There's been the clean out of the police hierarchy following the McSkimming scandal – or really, scandals. And two months after his appointment, police officer Lynn Fleming was killed in the line of duty in Nelson on New Year's Day. 

Back in March of this year, the latest Ministry of Justice Crime and Victim Survey found 69% of people had trust and confidence in police, up slightly on the year before. That was 67% probably after the Coster years, and then the police involved in the occupation of Parliament, and there was a little bit of argy-bargy going on between some members of the public and police. And then people felt that violent crime was getting out of control and the police weren't doing anything and providing escorts for gangs rather than arresting them. So, I can understand how trust might have slipped a little. 

He said the measure had slipped to its lowest ever in recent years, and although trust in police had improved slightly in the past 12 months, he conceded it could take a hit after the McSkimming scandal and other controversies. I'd say almost certainly. But the Commissioner has set some targets, and as he told Mike Hosking this morning, he's certain the police will achieve them. 

RC: We've been at 80% before, some years ago, but sitting at the moment around about 70%. So, we have seen a slight increase over the last 12 months, which is great. I know that we can do it. Trust and confidence matter and 80% is aspirational, but I'm determined to get there. 

MH: As regards confidence post this whole shambles of McSkimming and Co., if I suggested to you that most New Zealanders think no differently of the police because of this specific set of circumstances, would you agree broadly or not? 

RC: Absolutely agree with you, Mike. That's the feedback that I'm getting from across communities in New Zealand, that they appreciate this comes down to a group of former leaders of New Zealand Police, not the 15,000 outstanding men and women who do a great job day and night, they understand that. 

Yeah, and I think we do, don't we? We're still going to call the police when we've got somebody coming in the window, when a member of the family goes missing, in any of the myriad everyday tragedies that take place on a daily basis. The police are the first port of call, even if you are somebody like Tamatha Paul who doesn't instinctively and intuitively trust the police. They're who you go to when you're in trouble. They're the ones you ask to put their lives on the line to save yours or members of your family. 

I can appreciate that victims of sexual crime might think twice before going through a gruelling investigation in light of, you know, the police hierarchy seeming to believe their colleague over a woman complainant. But they shouldn't, because remember it was a police officer, a rank-and-file working police officer, I mean high ranking, but nonetheless she was on the front line, who highlighted the appalling treatment of the woman at the centre of the McSkimming cover up. Detective Inspector Nicola Reeves was the one who stood up to her bosses and told the IPCA. 

In her words, "I personally think it should be very simple in every police officer's world. It doesn't matter who the hell you are. We speak to the person, we take a complaint, and we investigate it. It's all very simple." 

Yeah. I mean, she got the brief. She understands her job. And as far as I'm concerned, I absolutely trust the police. I trust them to do their job well and professionally. And the cover up at Police HQ, I don't think has anything to do with the police who are going to work every single day, working for us. 

Richard Chambers has set four new targets. They'll be introduced early next year, and that is that 80% of New Zealanders have trust and confidence in police, 80% of New Zealanders being satisfied with service from officers, a 15% reduction in public violence, which is ambitious, and a 15% increase in retail crime resolutions, which would be gratifying for retailers. 

When it comes to having trust and confidence in police, it'd be interesting to see how the survey is worded. I was talking to someone recently who as part of a long-standing study that fills out their thoughts and opinions on different matters. And he said the way the questions were worded almost invites you not to have trust in the police, not to have trust in the justice system. It's all in the wording, as we well know. So I'd be interested to see the wording of this particular survey. 

W

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Mornings podcast from News
Talks HEADB.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
It's been twelve months since Richard Chambers became New Zealand's
Police Commissioner, and by crikey, he's had a busy old
time of it, a little bit of a poisoned chalice.
There's been the clean out of the police hierarchy following
them mix gimming scandal or really scandals, and two months
after his appointment, police Officer Lynn Fleming was killed in

(00:34):
the line of duty in Nelson on New Year's Day.
Back in March of this year, the latest Ministry of Justice,
Crime and Victim survey found sixty nine percent of people
had trust and confidence in police, up slightly on the
year before that was sixty seven percent, probably after the

(00:58):
cost of years and then the police involved in the
occupation of Parliament and there was a little bit of
rgi bart going on between some members of the public
and police, and then people felt that violent crime was
getting out of control and the police weren't doing anything
and providing escorts for gangs rather than arresting them. So

(01:21):
I can understand how trust might have slipped a little.
He said. The measure had slipped to its lowest ever
in recent years, and although trust and police had improved
slightly in the past twelve months, he conceded it could
take a hit after the mixed skimming scandal and other
controversies could take a hit. I'd say almost certainly, but

(01:46):
the Commissioner has set some targets and as he told
Mike Costing this morning, he certain the police will achieve them.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
We've been at eighty percent before some years ago, but
sitting at the moment around about seventy percent. So we
have seen a slide increase over the last twelve months,
which is great. I know that we can do it.
Trust and confidence matters and eighty sense, but I'm determined
to get there.

Speaker 4 (02:07):
So as regards confidence, post this whole shambles of mixed
gimming and co IF, I suggested to you that most
New Zealanders think no differently of the police because of
this specific set of circumstances. Would you agree broadly or not.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
Absolutely agree with you, Mike. That's the feedback that I'm
getting from across communities in New Zealand is that they appreciate.
This comes down to a group of former leaders of
New Zealand Police not the fifteen thousand outstanding men a
woman who do a great job day and night. They
understand that.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, and I think we do, don't we. That was
Police Commissioner Rich Chambers talking to Mike Cosking this morning.
We're still going to call the police when we've got
somebody coming in the window, when a member of the
family goes missing, in any of the myriad everyday tragedies
that take place on a daily basis, the police are

(02:56):
the first port of call, even if you are somebody
like Tamaa Paul who doesn't instinctively and intuitive trust the police.
They're who you go to when you're in trouble. They're
the ones you ask to put their lives on the
line to save yours or members of your family. I

(03:18):
can appreciate that victims of sexual crime might think twice
before going through a grueling investigation in light of the
police hierarchy seeming to believe their colleague over a woman complainant.
But they shouldn't because remember it was a police officer,
a rank and file working police officer, high ranking, but

(03:41):
nonetheless she was on the job, on the front line,
who highlighted the appalling treatment of the woman at the
center of the MIXCIMM and cover up. Detective Inspector Nikola
Reeves was the one who stood up to her bosses
and told the IPCA and her words, I personally think
it should be very simple in every police officer's world.
It doesn't matter who the hell you are. We speak

(04:04):
to the person, we take a plaint and we investigate it.
It's all very simple. Yeah, she got the brief, she
understands her job. And as far as I'm concerned, I
absolutely trust the police and I trust them to do
their job well and professionally. And the cover up at

(04:33):
Police HQ, I don't think has anything to do with
the police who are going to work every single day
working for us. Richard Chambers has set for new targets.
They'll be introduced early next year, and that is that
eighty percent of New Zealanders have trust and confidence in police,
eighty percent of New Zealand is being satisfied with service

(04:53):
from officers, a fifteen percent reduction in public violence, which
is ambitious, and a fifteen percent increase in retail crime resolution,
which would be gratifying for retailers. When it comes to
having trust and confidence in police, it'd be interesting to

(05:14):
see how the survey is worded. I was talking to
someone recently who as part of a long standing study
that fills out their thoughts and opinions on different matters,
and he said, the way the questions worded almost invites
you not to have trust in the police, not to

(05:35):
have trust in the justice system. It's all in the wording,
as we well know. So I'd be interested to see
the wording of this particular survey. What does satisfaction with
service from offices mean? In recent times? I had the
car appropriated from an underground locked garage. The police couldn't

(05:57):
have been more helpful. Admittedly, the car was used by
a five to zero one er to commit an aggravated robbery,
so you know, the car go into bad company, so
therefore it was found more quickly, perhaps than if it
had just been taken by a joy rider professional. They
were helpful.

Speaker 4 (06:16):
They were.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
They had a completely holistic understanding of crime, of the
importance of the victims of not me particularly, but those
at the wrong end of a firearm in the aggravated robbery.
I was really really impressed. What does satisfaction with service

(06:40):
from officers look like to you? Have you received it? Recently.
I would be very very interested to hear your thoughts.
What will it take to get eighty percent of New
Zealanders having trust and confidence and police eighty percent of
New Zealand is being satisfied with service. What do the
police need to do? I would argue the police on

(07:03):
the beat, the police out there investigating, don't to do much.
They're doing their job and doing it well. It's the
bosses that need a long, hard look in the mirror.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
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