Kerre Woodham: What's the attitude towards sick days?

It's one of those circular discussions, really, where people are extremely staunch in their opinion and no amount of debate can bring them over to the other side. A bit like the secondary tax discussion – you either think you're paying more tax, or you don't, you understand that it all comes out in the wash.  

Sick leave is a bit like that. People either believe it's an entitlement and you use every single day of sick day every single year, whether you're sick or not. Or you're one of those people who will only take a sick day when you're like the Black Knight in Monty Python, down and out, completely incapacitated, no limbs left, bellowing, "Tis but a scratch," as you're dragged out of the workplace snuffling and sneezing and feverish.  

The latest workplace wellness surveys say New Zealand workers are taking more sick leave. The average rate of employee absence of the organisation surveyed in 2024 was the highest since the survey began, 6.7 days per employee compared with 5.5 days in 2022. The report blames it on Labour's 2021 increase in legal sick leave entitlement. You'll remember it went from five to ten days, but it's also down to a change in attitude as Katherine Rich, Business NZ CEO, told Mike Hosking this morning.  

“It certainly has been a change in the workplace culture, and in some cases, employees are doing exactly what they've been told to do – if you're unwell, don't come to work and splutter all over your colleagues. But certainly with the rise in leave entitlements, we do think that it's reflected in the jump in the average absence of, you know, 6.7 days per employee per year, and that's a big jump since 2012 when it was about 4.2.That has a material impact on the economy and of course productivity of not just businesses but the whole economy. 

“Post-Covid, people really think about their wellness and they're less likely to soldier on like the Codral ad. They're more likely to think, am I going to be productive? If not, I'm going to stay home.”  

So the old Codral soldier on mentality is very outdated since Covid made it socially unacceptable to turn up at work with the slightest sniffle. But sick leave isn't just used because people are sick. It's also down to people using it because they have children who are home from school and they need to look after them. They have elderly parents, and you need to look after them as well. The sandwich generation needs to be looking after kids who are unwell and parents who have hospital appointments or who are unwell. So it's not just you who is sick, that you'll be the one taking the sick leave.  

Where do you stand on this one? It's really interesting because when you have that mentality of this is my entitlement and I will take it whether I'm sick or not, there's no getting around it. As a boss, you just have to accept that's what this particular worker with this particular attitude will do.  

It's interesting too to see the split between government workers and those working in the private sector. Guess who takes more sick days? Yes, you're right, it's the government workers. They take an average of nearly two more sick days than people who work in the private sector. An average of 6.5 for those of us working in the private sector, 8.4 for workers in public sector organisations. Now, why doesn't that surprise us?  

You know, it's because you can. When it's a private sector employer, I suppose everything's run leaner and tighter. You don't take the piss when you work for the private sector. If you are working for a boss and you know that she or he has put everything into this business, that the house has been put into the business, you're less likely, I think, than taking a couple of sick days off the government, because you can, because it's nobody's money. And that attitude would be pervasive right across the public sector.  

The idea of taking mental wellness days – I guess if you're in a job you don't enjoy, it's going to be hard to summon up the enthusiasm to get to work. Apart from Covid, the few times during the Covid years, I've never not wanted to come to work, and I appreciate that's a privilege. When I first started in the workforce in antediluvian times, the idea of ringing up the boss and saying, "You know what? I'm just not feeling it today. I might need just a couple of days to reset my equilibrium," or whatever it is you do, unfathomable to me. I'm not saying it's wrong or right, I just cannot imagine doing that. And maybe we should be more proactive about mental health.   

One thing I have noticed the bosses clamping down on, the people who ring in and go, "Yeah, feeling a bit poorly, might just work from home.” And the bosses, quite rightly, are now saying, "a bit poorly? Right you are. Don't worry about working, take a sick leave

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the carry wood of morning's podcast from
news Talk, said b.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
It's one of those circular discussions really where people are
extremely staunch in their opinion and no amount of debate
can bring them over to the other side. A bit
like the secondary tax discussion. You either think you're paying
more tax.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Or you don't.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
You understand that it all comes out in the what
sick leavers, But like that, people either believe it's an
entitlement and you use every single day of sick day
every single year, whether you're sickle or not, or you're
one of those people who will only take a sick day.

(00:52):
You like the Black Night in Monty Python, down and out,
completely incapacitated, no limbs left, bellowing, tis but a scratch
as you're dragged out of the workplace, snuffling and sneezing
and feverish. Greatest Workplace Wellness says Surveys says New Zealand
workers are taking more sickly. The average rate of employee

(01:14):
absence of the organization's surveyed in twenty twenty four was
the highest since the survey began, six point seven days
per employee compared with five point five days in twenty
twenty two. The report blames it on labour's twenty twenty
one increase in legal sickle entitlement. You remember it went
from five to ten days. But it's also down to

(01:37):
a change in attitude. As Catherine Rich Business and ZED
CEO told Mike Costking this morning.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
There certainly has been a change in the workplace culture
and in some cases employees are doing exactly what they've
been told to do. If you're unwell, don't come to
work and splutter all over your colleagues. But certainly with
their rise and leave entitlements, we do think that it's
reflected in the jump in the average absence of six

(02:04):
point seven days peroyee per year, and that's a big
jump since twenty twelve when it was about four point two.
That has a material impact on the economy and of
course productivity of not just businesses but the whole economy.
Post COVID, people really think about their wellness and they're
less likely to soldier on like the culdural ad. They're

(02:25):
more likely to think, am I going to be productive?
If not, I'm going to stay home.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, So the old soldier on mentality is very outdated
since COVID made it socially unacceptable to turn up at
work with the slightest sniffle. But sickly doesn't just used
because people are sick. It's also down to people using
it because they have children who are home from school

(02:51):
and they need to look after them. They have elderly
parents and you need to look after them as well.
The Sandwich generation needs to be looking after kids who
are unwell and parents who are have hospital who are unwell.
So it's not just you who is sick, but you'll

(03:15):
be the one taking the sick leave. Where do you
stand on this one. It's really interesting because when you
have that mentality of this is my entitlement and I
will take it whether I'm sick or not, there's no
getting around it. You know. As a boss, you just

(03:35):
have to accept that that's what this particular worker with
this particular attitude will do. It's interesting too to see
the split between government workers government and those working in
the private sector. Guess who takes more sick days. Yes,
you're right, it's the government workers. They take an average

(03:58):
of nearly two more sick days than people who work
in the private sector an average of six point five.
Those of us working in the private sector eight point
four for workers in public sector organizations. Now, why doesn't
that surprise us? You know, I it's because you can.

(04:22):
You know, when it's a private sector employer, I suppose
you everything's run leaner and tighter. You know, we don't
have fifteen producers for this show. There's one. She's highly
capable and does the work of fifteen people. But you know,
you you don't take the piss when you work for
the private sector. If you are working for a boss

(04:45):
and you know that she or he has put everything
into this business that the house is you know, has
been put into the business, you're less likely, I think,
than take a couple of sick days off the government
because you can, because it's nobody's money. And that attitude

(05:09):
would be pervasive right across the public sector. The idea
of taking mental wellness days. I guess if you're in
a job you don't enjoy, it's going to be hard
to summons up the enthusiasm to get to work. Apart
from COVID a few times during the COVID years, I've

(05:32):
never not wanted to come to work, and I appreciate
that that's privilege. So mental health days when I first
started in the workforce and antidiluvian times, the idea of
ringing up the boss and saying, you know what, I'm
just not feeling it today. Yeah I'm not sure. I'm

(05:52):
I'm not sure I'm really ready to come into work.
I might need just a couple of days to reset
my equilibrium or whatever it is you do unfathomable to me.
I'm not saying it's wrong or right, you know, I
just cannot imagine doing that. And maybe maybe we should

(06:13):
be more proactive about mental health. One thing I have
noticed the bosses clamping down on are the people who
ring in and go, yeah, feeling a bit poorly, might
just work from home. And the bosses, quite rightly, are
now saying, but poorly right you are, don't worry about

(06:34):
working take a sick leave day, because they know that
when you ring in and go, yeah, you know what,
not so good today, but of a scratch, bit of
a tickle might stay in and work from home. That's
not what's going to happen. They're not going to be
as productive. They've probably got a haircut or I don't know,

(06:56):
an appointment at a nail salon or whatever it is.
You're either sick or you're not. You're either working or
you're not. And I totally accept that that is an
old school view. It may not be the right one,
but I'd love to know what your policy is. As bosses,

(07:17):
it must be an absolute minefield trying to navigate your
way through people who are genuinely ill and they might have,
you know, it might be something far more than a sniffle.
They might have something a little bit more complicated. They're
a good worker. What do you do? You've got people
who are having a bit of a slump, a bit

(07:41):
of a downtime in their life. There's a lot going on.
They're not technically sick, but they're not right either. Might
be a relationship breakup. What do you do with them?
Tell me how you navigate it? And as a worker,
what's your attitude towards sick days.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
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