Louise Upston: Minister for social development and employment comments on job seeker rule changes

Beneficiaries who break the Government's job hunt rules face more intensive sanctions to prove they are hunting for employment. 

From today, they will be required to report on at least three job search activities a week and participate in four weeks of training courses. 

Minister for social development and employment Louise Upston told Kerre Woodham that the rules are for people, “who aren't doing their best, who aren't fulfilling their responsibilities, and this is a non-financial consequence of their inaction.” 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from News
Talks HEADB.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Beneficiaries who break the government's job hunt rules face more
intensive sanctions to prove they are looking for work. From today,
they'll be required to report on at least three job
search activities a week and participate in four weeks of
training courses. Minister for Social Development and Employment Louise Upstein
joins me, now, very good morning to you.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Good morning, Kerry.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
I've just heard from a recruiter who says they're just
getting spammed with people applying for ridiculous jobs that they
know they're not going to get as a way of
ticking the box to show they're looking for work. How
do you prevent that?

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah, well there's two different things here. First, every job
seekert is required to be undertaking steps to look for
a job, so they are standard work obligations. We've got
seventy thousand New Zealanders on the Job Seeker Benefit that
are getting more intensive support through a case manager. Part
of the work that the case manager will be doing

(01:08):
is actually looking at what sorts of jobs are the
applicants are the job seekers looking for, because what we
don't want is them applying for fifty jobs knowing that
none of them suit their skills and capability. So we
are doing that work more intensely with a group of
seventy thousand because it would be frustrating for a recruiter

(01:32):
getting applicants who don't have the skills required. But that
will be happening all across the board. That won't just
be job seekers. Look, at the end of the day,
we want to see fewer people on welfare and more
people in work, so there is more intensive case management
to support individuals.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
But what we have what.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Starts today is there are two more non financial sanctions.
So these are for the people who aren't doing their bit,
who aren't fulfilling their responsibilities. This is a non financial
consequence of their inaction.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
How there are very few of them. They are the
low hanging fruit, aren't they.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah, which is great news. It means that ninety eight
point five percent of people who are on the jobs
you can benefit are at green, so they're doing absolutely
what they need to be doing, which is great news.
So we're dealing with a very small number, so the
way the process works, they'll be at green. That means
they're complying with all of their obligations. If they don't,

(02:39):
it goes to orange. That's a five day warning system.
Within the five days, you contact MSD if there's a
reason you couldn't turn up to your appointment, valid reason,
you have a conversation with them and you get back
on track and you go back to green. If within
the five days you don't respond, or you just ignore

(03:02):
any contact from MSD, then you go to red, and
that's when a sanction is imposed. Before we came in,
the only sanction that was available was a financial one,
a reduction of fifty percent of a benefit, a benefit
being suspended or canceled completely. And I wanted to look
at non financial sanctions as an alternative. And so those

(03:26):
are two that are being kicked off today, the report,
the job search and upskilling, And as I say, they're
an alternative to a straight financial penalty.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
And possibly a way of getting people's head back in
the game if they've lost confidence about about applying for
jobs or their abilities to get a job.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah. So one of the reasons that we want people
to be in contact with MSD, making their appointments, being
in contact with their case manager, turning up for interviews,
being ready to accept a job. All of those things
improve their chances. So if they've missed in a with MSD,
we don't know if their circumstances have changed, We don't

(04:10):
know how their job search is go We don't know
if they need more guidance, or they need their CV
to be updated, or they need some more interviewing techniques.
And that is why it is really critical that one
of the work obligations is that they keep their appointments
with MSD are there to help, and I want to

(04:32):
make sure that the resources that are available are being
utilized to help people off welfare and into work and listen,
even though it's challenging out there economically, in the last quarter,
we've had twenty thousand, nearly twenty one thousand people coming
off the benefit into jobs, so we know what we're

(04:54):
doing is working, and we want to ensure that those
who are on the Job Seeker Benefit are using the
resources of MSD, the support, the services to their chances
of getting a job or at least being much readier
for them when jobs come along.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Well, that was my point. It's all very well and
good to say get out there and find work, but
I would have thought the time to do. That would
have been in twenty one twenty two, when employers were
screaming for workers to do anything. Right now, you've had Nelson,
Central North Island, Tokodor completely mauled by the fact that
there's no reliable gas that's going to be available in

(05:35):
the near future, which means that businesses are being shuttered
or scaled down. That makes it very hard on workers
to suddenly have to find work now.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
And that's where you know, one of my really big
frustrations when we were in opposition. We're seeing the government
of the day with very low unemployment rates and escalating
numbers on the job seeker benefit. It just totally didn't
make sense. And so you know, unemployment is five point

(06:08):
two percent, that's the sort of average it's been over
the last thirty years. It is higher than what we've
been used to in recent years. But you know, I'm
always really clear a job is better than no job,
an a job leads to a better job, and like
I accept it's really tough out there in my own

(06:30):
electorate and took it all. As you've mentioned, you know,
there's been significant job losses and that's really really tough
on individuals on their families and on communities. So for
some of those people that will mean looking at other opportunities.
It will mean looking at employment in neighboring towns, and

(06:51):
we are see seeing people do that. For others, it
will mean you know, doing some significant retraining to take
up other opportunities. And you know, those are the services
that MSD provides, so you know they're on the ground
in those communities working with the people affected, and some

(07:11):
of them won't end up going on the benefit at all.
We provide the services to them to connect them with
employment so they don't need to go on to the benefit.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
When it comes to the ninety eight percent that aren't
on the traffic light system that are fulfilling their obligations,
does that mean that they are passing drug testing, because
I know that was of some concern to you when
you're in opposition. You went to a job sphere and
found that the vast a significant number of job seekers

(07:42):
weren't able to get jobs because they are on the
weed or worse.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
Yeah. Yeah, So just just to be clear, in terms
of the passing a drug test, not everybody who is
on the Job Seeker Benefit needs to pass it. It
is only if they are applying for a position that
requires them to be drug free, and so if somebody
had applied for a job like that and they had

(08:09):
failed a drug test, then that would be a failing
of a work obligation. But as I said, the fact
that ninety eight point five percent are at green and
complying with their obligations, that's a really good sign. Frustrating
that there's sort of three three thy one hundred who
are on red on sanctions, but lots really easy for

(08:31):
them to comply with their work obligations. They've just got
to do very simple steps to help improve their chances.
And I think that's the least that taxpayers would expect
for someone that they are supporting for a period of
time on welfare.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
I thank you very much for your time. Are Louise Eupston,
Minister for Social Development and Employment talking about the new sanctions,
the non financial sanctions that come into effect.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
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