Malcolm Rands: Open Letter on Tax Spokesperson on a potential wealth tax in New Zealand

The Green Party is suggesting an overhaul of the tax system in their alternative Budget. 

It includes taxing wealth, inheritance, gifts, and private jet journeys, and they say it would bring in $88 billion in revenue over four years.  

New income tax rates of 39% on income over $120,000 and 45% on income over $180,000 would be introduced, and the corporate tax rate would be raised to 33%, 3% higher than Australia's current rates. 

Malcolm Rands is the spokesperson for the ‘Open Letter on Tax’ released in May 2023, in which 97 people leading “financially comfortable lives” expressed their willingness to pay more tax. 

He told Kerre Woodham he thinks people who can afford more aren’t contributing as much as they can. 

He says taxes don’t just fund social welfare and education, but also things like climate change and the infrastructure bills being passed that will need funding. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Mornings podcast from News Talks.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
He'd b The Green Party's alternative budget, announced this week
includes taxes to bring an eighty eight billion dollars revenue
over four years. It includes excuse me, taxing wealth, inheritance,
gifts and private jet journeys. The party would introduce new
rates of income tax of thirty nine percent on incomes

(00:32):
over one hundred and twenty thousand, forty five percent on
incomes over one hundred and eighty thousand. The Greens would
also increase the corporate tax rate to thirty three percent,
three percent higher than Australia's current rates. Malcolm Rands is
the spokesperson for the open Letter on tax released in
May twenty twenty three, in which ninety seven kiwis leading

(00:52):
financially comfortable lives express their willingness to pay more tax.
A very good morning to you Malcolm here.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Hello, how are you very well?

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Thank you? Is this the sort of budget you were
looking for? Who are from the government or are government
when you called when you wrote the letter?

Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, it means we might end up like Scandinavia. Wouldn't
that be terrible?

Speaker 2 (01:17):
But isn't Scandinavia's wealth built on its extractive industries as
well as its technology.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Just NOI not Sweden, not then not.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well Sweden in terms of the technology and the communications.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Sure, sure they've got they've got more business than us.
They're not just selling milk powder, you're correct, But I
mean they have the happiest countries in the world. They
you know, stability, education, it's just amazing what they can have.
If there's money to support it.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
That's right. But it can't just come from taxation, can it.
You've got to grow the wealth base of the country.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
Isn't it. And of course you've got to grow the wealth.
Of course, you've got to go to the wealth of course.
But and if people can afford it, I mean, I
think people who can afford are not contruy as much
as they can. I mean, I haven't been through the
detail of the Greens, I have not, but it's definitely
the right direction that if you can afford a bit more,
why not chuck it into the pit because it's not

(02:18):
just social welfare and education, it's actually you know, climate
change is coming our way and we've got the amazing
infrastructure bills coming. Where's that money coming from Yep.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Absolutely so growing the nation's wealth so that I mean,
I don't think anybody minds being taxed more when you
can see that the money. We used to live in
a country not so long ago where we were taxed
quite highly.

Speaker 4 (02:42):
And it was a galitarian society and golden years, a
golden years, you know, And and if people, particularly lower people,
don't have to pay as much tax and have more
money in the pocket, that actually stimulates the economy.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
People keep on forgetting about that that people need, you know,
if they're paying their money. If you're low income, I mean,
I don't want to tax low income people. I don't
want to catch middle income people. It's just the people
who can afford it. I think can put their hands
in their pocket a bit more than they're doing now,
and who.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Would be able to afford it. Do you have a
set number in mind of people who should be be
having more tax.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
I think if you're getting up to two hundred k
plus a year, and that's from everything you do, not
just from your wages, I think just wages is a
false thing. I mean a lot of rich people don't
make munch money from wages, which is why tax doesn't
really get them. You know, it's the capital gains, it's
the investments, it's so many things. Offshore money. I mean,

(03:41):
there's a lot of money out there that we could
be bringing back into New Zealand into circulation, and actually
we will stimulate the economy as well.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Like the student loans being pursued, so we can get
two point two billion back there.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, my kids are playing
off their lines. Yeah, I'm quite happy.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
You know, when it comes to paying more, there are
people I will pay more because they can't charge more
because of the you know, they've got competition or they
fear that they're going to lose customers. I think, no,
you deserve more, so I pay more. Count the ninety
seven people who were signatories to the letters. Do you

(04:25):
start in your own backyard by paying your employees above
what you have to pay by doing in your backyard?

Speaker 3 (04:33):
I think there'd be a lot of hypocrisy of the
people who signed didn't do that. But everyone I know
who did that, we were pretty bloody nice people actually,
And I suddenly didn't pay minimum wage at Eco store
and our CEO of that so and it's crazy to anyhow,
because your people is what makes your wealth. You've got

(04:54):
to look after your people. You've got to spoil them
up and then they work so much better you reap
it back. So, I mean, people who pay minimum wage,
it's a self defeating I think, do you.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Have any ideas yourself on how we could grow the
money pit so we can check more around.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
Well, I've been beating this path to business groups forever ever,
and I think we've just got to add value to
what we're doing already, you know. I mean my situation
is if you've got a lovely bubbly wine you see
it in the supermarket for twenty bucks that comes from
a tiny little place called Champagne, same ones worth a

(05:36):
hundred bucks. New Zealand should be the Champagne of the
field world.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
You know.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
We should be adding value to everything we're doing, not
being a commodity player of it. But because it's amazing
food from here. I mean, I think I come back
to New Zealand and the food is so delicious, there's
such high quality. We need the world to know that,
and you know, and just target the people who are
looking for quality food because we can't feed the world.

(06:00):
We're not a commodity person, but we can feed people
who want really good food and hard for that.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
But I think that's exactly what's happening. I think that
the rest of the world is enjoying our beautiful food
because we live in a global market and there are
key we who can't afford to pay the ten bucks
for the brick of butter.

Speaker 3 (06:18):
I know, I know this happened, but I mean, I
hate to say that Fonterra is a commodity player.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
It's not.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
It's milk powder. It's the lowest most of our beautiful
project is going out at bottom dollar. They're a quality
quantity player, not a quality player. They're not. And that's
our major exporter, is a quantity player, not a quality player.
Got that they've got, and they've got. Yeah, but if
they got rid of their brands because they're not playing

(06:44):
their game. But imagine if that same money went out
had another zero added to it. Because there's all quality.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
I think it is quality, which is why so many
people in New Zealand are struggling to enjoy the fabulous food.

Speaker 4 (06:56):
That we produce.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
I'm not talking about I'm talking about the milk powder, sorry,
which is most of fontower is milk powder, and it's
the bottom price. It's okay stuff in the world.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Given that, you know there are concerns about climate change,
I imagine you wouldn't want to see extractive industries take
a hold here any more than they have.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
No, not the extractive of industries. No, no, I mean
in fact, and some of the best people I know
who are actually selling things like lamb to the U
United States making them bumper bumper profits. Now they've got
less sheep on the properties than they used to and
just because they've gone down the quality route, they're actually
making more money.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, going for quality, But is that going to get
us out of there being a primary products producer.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Well, that's all we've got at the moment to say,
I think you know, you know, of course we want
to go you know, we want to get much more
it in here. We want to more. I mean at Ecostore,
we ended up selling commodities for most people like this
Washington liquid at a high end to Japan and China.
Who ever thought you could have done that? But we

(08:06):
just made sure that people had the New Zealand ideal
in their minds. So when they're sitting in their kitchen
and Beijing somehow they had beautiful New Zealands in their
hands when they're doing the dishes. You know, it's possible.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yes, people are saying that Fonterra got rid of retailers
that was losing the money. The balance sheet proved it.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
It's true that, But I mean that's maybe there went
doing it well enough. I mean that was their only
added value where their brands and as I said, most
of their products going out as bottom dollar bottom dollar,
and that's not where we need to go.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
The Sanford CEO on Mike Coskin this morning said we
need to forget the value add theory and just get
back to commodities.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
But the thing is is that we're small. You know,
we're almost maxed out. We can't get more land. And
if we're going for commodity, that's all about and it's
if you're ever in business, the worst place to be
is at the bottom. It's a shocking place. You know.
You want to be at the top every time. So
I disagree with her. I disagree with him completely.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Malcolm, Thank you, thank you very much for your time
this morning. Malcolm Rand's Eco store co founder.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
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