July 30, 2024 • 9 mins
Today marks the end of Dry July, an annual campaign that challenges people to abstain from alcohol to raise funds for cancer support organisations.
For some people, July has them realising they’d rather stay sober.
Kerre Woodham was joined by Maree MacLean, the author of ‘The No B*llshit Guide to Staying Sober’ for a chat about staying sober.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the carry wood of morning's podcast from
news Talk se'd b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
As I mentioned it's the final day of dry July
and hope for some of you have and you spring
in your step never raise some money for people affected
by cancer. If you have enjoyed being on the wagon
and you want to continue living the dry life, getting
high on the dry life, how do you stay sober?
Mary McLain is the author of the very popular No
Bullshit Guide to Getting Sober. Her latest offering is The
(00:35):
No Bullshit Guide to Staying Sober, which can be the
hard and more terrifying choice to make. Mary McLain joins me, now,
very good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
And a very good morning to you too, Carrie would them,
and I'd like to say thank you very much for
writing the forward to Staying Sober. I've had a lot
of great feedback about the honesty and real you know,
your own journey, and thank you so much for that.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Oh that's okay, that's absolutely fine, because it's you know,
the pis very has sat on my shoulder for many
a year since I was about twenty, and it's just
a matter of trying to manage that. But when it
comes to staying sober. That's a bit different to doing
a challenge, isn't it like anyone can do thirty days
or thirty one days?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah? No, definitely. So, I mean, I'd say that the
getting sober part is the easy bit, and the getting
sober part you can usually do on your own, but
the staying sober you need. You need the support of
usually people that have also had a drinking problem in
the past. I've found that very helpful for me. And
(01:39):
just to get brutally honest about your triggers. If you
really want to stay sober, what are your triggers for
falling off the wagon?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Right? So what would be an example?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So if you find that when you get when you
have a fight with your partner, or you have a
fight with your child, and you find that you're stressed
at work and you're just like you're things like should
I just want to get to the end of this
day and have a drink? Then you've got to replace
that with something else. So you've got to find whether
(02:13):
that's you make yourself an awesome smoothie and you put
some chocolate mint in it, and you make it put
some passion for you syrup in it, or whatever. But
you've just got to find replacements for those times when
you're like I need a crutch, you know, or I
need a reward, so reward and also the crutch of
the two key things. But if you've got a plan,
(02:34):
like for those times that those triggers happen, but also
I think for impromptu things, so like say you're at
touch Rugby and then someone says, hey, let's go back
to my place for a drink afterwards, then it's like
having a plan in place, so you've got your tonic
water or your two stroke beers, zero bears whatever in
(02:54):
the car, always ready to go, so that there's not
there's not too many situations that catch you out. I think, Yeah,
I really think planning when comes to sobriety if you
if you don't if you don't plan, you know, it's
pretty easy to cut yourself the slack and fall off
the wagon when you really just need a plan in place.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, and I think you're right about the triggers, Like
you like to have rewards if you've had a big
day or a hard day or a long day. I've
found with the the zero alcohol drinks, the wine and
the sodas, the faux the faux spirits, they're sophisticated enough
(03:38):
to feel like a real drink. You can't drink lots
and lots and lots of them, and it still feels
like a reward to the act of, you know, pouring
yourself a drink and saying we've done you.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Oh yeah, on with you on that. And if you
think about those curious af drinks, which is a pun
on as if you see k and alcohol free that
were created by a New Zealander and are now they've
gone mad in the US as well, well, like that
averall sprits they've got is better than a Campari sprits,
(04:11):
like a proper one, Like they are so good, and
they've got an afterglow which they've trademarked, which actually gives
you a little glow up. So really, what it is is,
it's just it's just a shift in mindset. Like it's
not like it's not impossible to do it. You just
need to stop thinking I can never have another drink again,
and start thinking how awesome you feel when you stop
(04:34):
poisoning yourself.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
What about those who just want to get out of it?
Like I know a lot of people who don't like
to drink or take drugs because they hate losing control,
whereas there are others who love losing control. That's the
very point they don't want to be in control anymore.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Well, I don't know if it's I actually don't know
if it's a lack of control that they want so much,
is that they don't want to feel whatever they're feeling
in the present moment right And so my question would be,
ask yourself, which one is it? Because if it's just
a release that you're looking for, what's the release from?
Speaker 1 (05:16):
You know?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
So that I think is what we feel. Certainly for me,
when I was out of control, wanted to get out
of control. I was just looking for a release, release
from financial stress, or a release from an unhappy marriage,
or a release from too many expectations from a family
member or a boss. It wasn't actually that I wanted
(05:37):
to go and hurt myself, but that's what ended up happening.
So that I think I had to kind of learn was, oh,
I'm looking for a relief. I don't want to feel.
I want to get out of it because I just
want to numb what's going on in my current present moment.
And is there a way to self sooth came later
(06:00):
like I couldn't. I couldn't process and figure all that
out before I actually stopped drink. And that's why it
was awesome when you said, let's do this interview and
look at like go do drive alive? But let's the
people that want to stay off the boots, Well what
kind of things do they need to look at to
be able to do that? And that's just getting brutally
(06:21):
honest with yourself and going what when do I want
to drink? Why do I want to drink? How do
I drink when I drink? Because I know, you know,
working in the media in my twenties, it was it
was just binge. It was like work, can't play hard, binge,
binch binge, and so you know common mouth countries, that's
what we do. We bringe. It's not how other countries drink.
(06:43):
It's not it's not the way that they treat. But
alcohol is not the meal in itself. It's an accompaniment
to food. But you know, when you when we finished
work on a Friday back in the day, it was
straight on the past. It wasn't like she hears about
the food, and so I think, don't beat yourself up.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Just go.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
You've been brought up in a culture where your relationship
with alcohol you prob We've never questioned because everybody else
does it, you know. But if you're finding you're feeling
better at the end of drive July, and you're finding
that you're not fighting as much with your partner or
your kids or whoever it is that your alcoholism effects
aside from yourself or excess of alcohol use, then just
(07:25):
have those conversations with yourself, really, because yeah, that's where
it's at, you know. It's how you feel. It's not
the alcohol that's the problem. It's not the bear or
the wine. It's what you're using it for. It's how
you use it. It's the problem, you know. I don't
think alcoholim in and of itself is sure bad. I
(07:47):
think it's how we use it and what we use
it for that is the problem.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Is it important to think of giving up for today
a bit like what AAA says one day at a time.
Do you think it's important to give up for a
day or do you just say that's it, I'm done.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Oh my god, there's no other way, because the day
can throw so many things at you. If you try
to stay sober for if you go, I'm going to
stay sober this entire year. I don't think you give
yourself it's so hot. It's like if you just have
(08:24):
to do it one day at a time and just go,
oh my god, I got through today. Yeah, I can
do this again tomorrow, and you take it in incremental steps,
particularly if you've had a problem with it. You know,
I'm not talking about the Black Feron, so I'm not
drinking because they've got to do, you know, go and
win gold medals like they just I'm talking about every
day of people who find that they rely on alcohols
(08:44):
are crutch and they really want to try something different
in their life.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
You know.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
That's that's that's who I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Perfect. Thank you Mary. The book is called the No
Bullship Guide to Staying Sober, which comes after the Noblellship
Guide to Getting Sober, and it's available on ebook for
less than a cup of coffee four dollars ninety nine.
There's an audio book fourteen ninety nine and a paperback
for twenty nine ninety nine, and you can get them
at Murray McClain dot com. M A R W M
(09:14):
A C L E A N dot Com, Amazon Aper
plus Palm Beach so y Heki. You will find it
if you're looking for it.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to news
Talks at b from nine am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the carry wood of morning's podcast from
news Talk se'd b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
As I mentioned it's the final day of dry July
and hope for some of you have and you spring
in your step never raise some money for people affected
by cancer. If you have enjoyed being on the wagon
and you want to continue living the dry life, getting
high on the dry life, how do you stay sober?
Mary McLain is the author of the very popular No
Bullshit Guide to Getting Sober. Her latest offering is The
(00:35):
No Bullshit Guide to Staying Sober, which can be the
hard and more terrifying choice to make. Mary McLain joins me, now,
very good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
And a very good morning to you too, Carrie would them,
and I'd like to say thank you very much for
writing the forward to Staying Sober. I've had a lot
of great feedback about the honesty and real you know,
your own journey, and thank you so much for that.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Oh that's okay, that's absolutely fine, because it's you know,
the pis very has sat on my shoulder for many
a year since I was about twenty, and it's just
a matter of trying to manage that. But when it
comes to staying sober. That's a bit different to doing
a challenge, isn't it like anyone can do thirty days
or thirty one days?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah? No, definitely. So, I mean, I'd say that the
getting sober part is the easy bit, and the getting
sober part you can usually do on your own, but
the staying sober you need. You need the support of
usually people that have also had a drinking problem in
the past. I've found that very helpful for me. And
(01:39):
just to get brutally honest about your triggers. If you
really want to stay sober, what are your triggers for
falling off the wagon?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Right? So what would be an example?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So if you find that when you get when you
have a fight with your partner, or you have a
fight with your child, and you find that you're stressed
at work and you're just like you're things like should
I just want to get to the end of this
day and have a drink? Then you've got to replace
that with something else. So you've got to find whether
(02:13):
that's you make yourself an awesome smoothie and you put
some chocolate mint in it, and you make it put
some passion for you syrup in it, or whatever. But
you've just got to find replacements for those times when
you're like I need a crutch, you know, or I
need a reward, so reward and also the crutch of
the two key things. But if you've got a plan,
(02:34):
like for those times that those triggers happen, but also
I think for impromptu things, so like say you're at
touch Rugby and then someone says, hey, let's go back
to my place for a drink afterwards, then it's like
having a plan in place, so you've got your tonic
water or your two stroke beers, zero bears whatever in
(02:54):
the car, always ready to go, so that there's not
there's not too many situations that catch you out. I think, Yeah,
I really think planning when comes to sobriety if you
if you don't if you don't plan, you know, it's
pretty easy to cut yourself the slack and fall off
the wagon when you really just need a plan in place.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, and I think you're right about the triggers, Like
you like to have rewards if you've had a big
day or a hard day or a long day. I've
found with the the zero alcohol drinks, the wine and
the sodas, the faux the faux spirits, they're sophisticated enough
(03:38):
to feel like a real drink. You can't drink lots
and lots and lots of them, and it still feels
like a reward to the act of, you know, pouring
yourself a drink and saying we've done you.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Oh yeah, on with you on that. And if you
think about those curious af drinks, which is a pun
on as if you see k and alcohol free that
were created by a New Zealander and are now they've
gone mad in the US as well, well, like that
averall sprits they've got is better than a Campari sprits,
(04:11):
like a proper one, Like they are so good, and
they've got an afterglow which they've trademarked, which actually gives
you a little glow up. So really, what it is is,
it's just it's just a shift in mindset. Like it's
not like it's not impossible to do it. You just
need to stop thinking I can never have another drink again,
and start thinking how awesome you feel when you stop
(04:34):
poisoning yourself.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
What about those who just want to get out of it?
Like I know a lot of people who don't like
to drink or take drugs because they hate losing control,
whereas there are others who love losing control. That's the
very point they don't want to be in control anymore.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Well, I don't know if it's I actually don't know
if it's a lack of control that they want so much,
is that they don't want to feel whatever they're feeling
in the present moment right And so my question would be,
ask yourself, which one is it? Because if it's just
a release that you're looking for, what's the release from?
Speaker 1 (05:16):
You know?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
So that I think is what we feel. Certainly for me,
when I was out of control, wanted to get out
of control. I was just looking for a release, release
from financial stress, or a release from an unhappy marriage,
or a release from too many expectations from a family
member or a boss. It wasn't actually that I wanted
(05:37):
to go and hurt myself, but that's what ended up happening.
So that I think I had to kind of learn was, oh,
I'm looking for a relief. I don't want to feel.
I want to get out of it because I just
want to numb what's going on in my current present moment.
And is there a way to self sooth came later
(06:00):
like I couldn't. I couldn't process and figure all that
out before I actually stopped drink. And that's why it
was awesome when you said, let's do this interview and
look at like go do drive alive? But let's the
people that want to stay off the boots, Well what
kind of things do they need to look at to
be able to do that? And that's just getting brutally
(06:21):
honest with yourself and going what when do I want
to drink? Why do I want to drink? How do
I drink when I drink? Because I know, you know,
working in the media in my twenties, it was it
was just binge. It was like work, can't play hard, binge,
binch binge, and so you know common mouth countries, that's
what we do. We bringe. It's not how other countries drink.
(06:43):
It's not it's not the way that they treat. But
alcohol is not the meal in itself. It's an accompaniment
to food. But you know, when you when we finished
work on a Friday back in the day, it was
straight on the past. It wasn't like she hears about
the food, and so I think, don't beat yourself up.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Just go.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
You've been brought up in a culture where your relationship
with alcohol you prob We've never questioned because everybody else
does it, you know. But if you're finding you're feeling
better at the end of drive July, and you're finding
that you're not fighting as much with your partner or
your kids or whoever it is that your alcoholism effects
aside from yourself or excess of alcohol use, then just
(07:25):
have those conversations with yourself, really, because yeah, that's where
it's at, you know. It's how you feel. It's not
the alcohol that's the problem. It's not the bear or
the wine. It's what you're using it for. It's how
you use it. It's the problem, you know. I don't
think alcoholim in and of itself is sure bad. I
(07:47):
think it's how we use it and what we use
it for that is the problem.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Is it important to think of giving up for today
a bit like what AAA says one day at a time.
Do you think it's important to give up for a
day or do you just say that's it, I'm done.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Oh my god, there's no other way, because the day
can throw so many things at you. If you try
to stay sober for if you go, I'm going to
stay sober this entire year. I don't think you give
yourself it's so hot. It's like if you just have
(08:24):
to do it one day at a time and just go,
oh my god, I got through today. Yeah, I can
do this again tomorrow, and you take it in incremental steps,
particularly if you've had a problem with it. You know,
I'm not talking about the Black Feron, so I'm not
drinking because they've got to do, you know, go and
win gold medals like they just I'm talking about every
day of people who find that they rely on alcohols
(08:44):
are crutch and they really want to try something different
in their life.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
You know.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
That's that's that's who I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Perfect. Thank you Mary. The book is called the No
Bullship Guide to Staying Sober, which comes after the Noblellship
Guide to Getting Sober, and it's available on ebook for
less than a cup of coffee four dollars ninety nine.
There's an audio book fourteen ninety nine and a paperback
for twenty nine ninety nine, and you can get them
at Murray McClain dot com. M A R W M
(09:14):
A C L E A N dot Com, Amazon Aper
plus Palm Beach so y Heki. You will find it
if you're looking for it.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to news
Talks at b from nine am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!