September 14, 2025 • 11 mins
Health NZ is planning to remove restrictions on visiting hours at hospitals.
The change would allow family members to visit patients at any hour of the day, a move that has led to mixed responses.
Health NZ National Chief Nurse Nadine Gray told Kerre Woodham that the change is part of a patient support policy.
‘It’s part of the code of patients’ rights to have support.’
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from news
Talks HEDB Health.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
New Zealand's expanding family Visiting ours to twenty four to
seven in hospitals nationwide. As you will have heard in
our news and a note sent out to staff, Health
New Zealand Chief Executive Dale Bramley says the new policy
is a step to elevate compassion within their culture. National
Chief Nurse Nardine Gray says they know from patients that
(00:33):
family members play an important role in supporting them in hospital.
She says, once introduced, family members can be nominated to
support patients in hospital twenty four seven Outside Visiting Ours.
National Chief Nurse Nardine Grad joins me, now, a very
good morning to you. This idea sounds completely and utterly
(00:55):
mad twenty four to seven access I have have you
been the patient in hospital recently, Nardine?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I haven't been a patient myself recently in hospital, but
I've worked INSP. I work in the hospital, I also
work in hospice. So you know. The Patient and Finance
Support policy that we're putting in place, actually it responds
and guides principles that are actually impaileda and our obligations
under detity or white tuggy. It's consistent with our teaching
(01:27):
a best practice and actually it's part of the code
of patients' rights to have support.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Is it under the code of nurse like? Is it
best practice for nursing to have a patient an award
where there are multiple visitors who are talking throughout the night,
who are singing, who are doing whatever it is that
their particular family member needs, but actually may not be
needed by the patient the other patients in the ward
(01:57):
with them.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Okay, So what I would say is that you know,
for my own experience working on the front line, is
that this is not unusual to have patients or far
no supporting supporting to ensure well being and recovery of
a patient of their patient. Actually about nominated. This is
about a nominated partner, perhaps a parent of a child,
(02:23):
a family or a friend that can play a more
active support role for the patient. So it's nominated, So
it's not like it's a big group of people coming in.
It's one nominated person. But also, you know, there's always
flexibility in you know, what the needs are of the patient.
Some patients might say I need need some downtime, and
so you know as a nurse. For nurses on the frontline,
(02:45):
having FARNO as part of care is normal.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Nadine, tell me how this is going to work. I say,
I'm exhausted, I've had a big surgery. I need some sleep.
My nurse says, okay, I'll close your curtain to give
me respect and privacy. In the meantime, the party reads
on in the ward. How on earth are the nurse
is supposed to police that and say, look, you've got
(03:12):
to keep the noise down. You know if you've been
on a ward that it does not limit the patients,
do not limit their visitors to one or two.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
I think this is something that is, you know, a
part of care that happens every day in terms of
patients having visitors. So it's not something that's different to
what already occurs in the clinical environment. What this is
about is when a patient is feeling vulnerable or needing
support of a nominated person, that is their right to
(03:44):
have that support. In terms of the day to day
operations and management of the clinical environment, that is led
by our leeds on the floor, so.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Who are overworked, understaffed, which is why their families are
being brought in in it. And if, as I said before,
the Famili's actually rolled up their sleeves and did do
some of the work and cleaned up the loose and
went and got their own food and put away their rubbish,
then great, that's not what's happening. I've seen family members
ballowing out to nursing stuff to go and get them
(04:16):
some food because they're hungry, treating them like unpaid waitresses.
They do not limit themselves to one or two. And
what happens to my right to recover and recover peacefully?
Is there a room I can go to where I
can be by myself, so I'm not part of the
SPARO lead recovery.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Patient centered care is a decisions that are led by
patients and with fire. And you'll probably know this carey
probably in your own experience. When you are unwell, you
require the support of those that support your recovery.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
No, I need good drugs, good beautiful.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
And passion and care for those that are that are
in our care and ensuring that SARNO is at the
center of their recovery and managing the clinical environment. It's
not unusual to have farnow and visitors in our environment,
but this is again, as I said, part of the
code of patients Rights. It's about having expectations of compassions
(05:15):
for those that are requiring support. Not everybody will, but
those that do require it, you know it's your right to.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Do so why can't they do it away from other people?
Why can't I have a right to sleep through the night?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
There are clinicians that are there twenty four to seven
and the over and understaffed, as you know, dispute that
we have the lowest tun over we've had in a
very long time. We've got a closed vacancy rate, so
you know, it's a dynamic environment and our staff thing
(05:52):
is managed and guided by clinical judgment each and every date.
I'm sure that we have the resources at the right
time and at the right place for patients center and
out here.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Registered nurse here says a text total nightmare with multiple
family members visiting for everyone makes it very unsafe for
the patient. You can't actually reach the patient, drains wounds,
or give medication. Four beded rooms are too small to
allow this. The patient needs rest and quiet to recover.
Sometimes the visiting becomes an outing for the whole family.
(06:24):
There are babies crawling on hospital floors and neighboring patients
feel really vulnerable, especially at night. This is one of million,
like hundreds of texts might yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
And myself as well, working in a clinical environment every day.
We've always said, as I said, we've always had visitors
and so it's around clinical judgment for decision making, having
that flexibility from our experienced leaders on the frontline who
manage visitors and the needs of patients every day. And
sometimes when we do have you know, there might be
(07:00):
more groups of patients at a certain times. Again, you
have to take into account what's happening in that moment
time to manage it with your experience and with football
decision making around managing that to be respectful of everyone
in the environment.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Not they're not respectful, and I don't expect the nurses
to police it.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Well, I wouldn't say it's policing. Again, it comes back
to that, there is patients have a code, there's a
code of rights, and people are entitled to have support
if they require it and not everybody does. Not everybody
will have utilized having twenty four to seven. But what
this is about is about bringing patients centered care to
(07:41):
our work.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
What about my patient centered guy where I want peace
and quiet and I want to be able to sleep.
Why can't Why does the right to have many many
visitors trump my right to get better quickly?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
No, this is about a nominated person.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
It is not Nardine, And you know that it's.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Not for a group of people. And that's not the
normal Perry Nadine that is of people at all times.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
That is absolute nonsense, that it's not groups of people.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Even in childhouse, say for example, having parents as part
of care is absolutely embraced and it's supported so that
children have a parent there overnight. That's something that's always
been there. And again, this is about creating consistency across
the organization to guide and support both patients and staff
(08:36):
around nominated support nominated support person when and where it's
required for a patient based on their needs, if that's
what they require. So it's placing again the patient at
the center of You keep.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Repeating that which patients are you placing it the center
because you're not placing.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Me there or patient.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
No, you're not patient because those who require privacy, security,
safety aren't getting that. You're not listening to my needs.
I want to be safe, secure, I want to feel
like my privacy is protected by more than a flimsy curtain.
I want to be able to sleep. I'm not going
(09:19):
to be able to do that with twenty four hour
seven visitor access. If we were living in nineteen thirty four,
where people understood the collective good, sure and collective responsibility, Sure,
we don't at the moment we live where my rights
are more important than everybody else's. And what you're saying
is that I don't have any rights. If I want
(09:40):
peace and quiet.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Now everyone has, everyone has.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
How will I get it there? How will I get it?
Speaker 3 (09:48):
There? Are are codes of expectations both and how.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Do they work in practice? And those codes of.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
And code their code of rights for patients who are
entitled to have support. Again, it'll come down. It comes
down every day in real time, thoughtful decision making, support
and experience of leaders of frontline who manage visitors.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
That is not their job. They shouldn't have to manage
visitors twenty four to seven.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
It's part of I think it's about actually putting this
back into the context of that we have always encouraged
support for patients, will continue to encourage support for patients
and managing that with our experienced staff on the front
line to ensure that clinical care is always prioritized. But
(10:36):
also if someone asks for the nominated person to stay
with them over not even one will, but they may
feel more comfortable because they're vulnerable. Then that's something that
we in terms of providing consistency guidance for both our
patients and stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
If I feel vulnerable because there are five or six
people next door to me, that doesn't matter because my neighbors,
writes Trump my own.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
No, it's not about having five or six people.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Well, there will be, and there has been.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Having a nominal and nominated.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Honestly, you haven't been in hospital recently. I just don't
believe you have been. I really don't. Or you haven't
been in hospital overnight? What willed are these people living in?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to news
talks it be from nine am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from news
Talks HEDB Health.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
New Zealand's expanding family Visiting ours to twenty four to
seven in hospitals nationwide. As you will have heard in
our news and a note sent out to staff, Health
New Zealand Chief Executive Dale Bramley says the new policy
is a step to elevate compassion within their culture. National
Chief Nurse Nardine Gray says they know from patients that
(00:33):
family members play an important role in supporting them in hospital.
She says, once introduced, family members can be nominated to
support patients in hospital twenty four seven Outside Visiting Ours.
National Chief Nurse Nardine Grad joins me, now, a very
good morning to you. This idea sounds completely and utterly
(00:55):
mad twenty four to seven access I have have you
been the patient in hospital recently, Nardine?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I haven't been a patient myself recently in hospital, but
I've worked INSP. I work in the hospital, I also
work in hospice. So you know. The Patient and Finance
Support policy that we're putting in place, actually it responds
and guides principles that are actually impaileda and our obligations
under detity or white tuggy. It's consistent with our teaching
(01:27):
a best practice and actually it's part of the code
of patients' rights to have support.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Is it under the code of nurse like? Is it
best practice for nursing to have a patient an award
where there are multiple visitors who are talking throughout the night,
who are singing, who are doing whatever it is that
their particular family member needs, but actually may not be
needed by the patient the other patients in the ward
(01:57):
with them.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Okay, So what I would say is that you know,
for my own experience working on the front line, is
that this is not unusual to have patients or far
no supporting supporting to ensure well being and recovery of
a patient of their patient. Actually about nominated. This is
about a nominated partner, perhaps a parent of a child,
(02:23):
a family or a friend that can play a more
active support role for the patient. So it's nominated, So
it's not like it's a big group of people coming in.
It's one nominated person. But also, you know, there's always
flexibility in you know, what the needs are of the patient.
Some patients might say I need need some downtime, and
so you know as a nurse. For nurses on the frontline,
(02:45):
having FARNO as part of care is normal.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Nadine, tell me how this is going to work. I say,
I'm exhausted, I've had a big surgery. I need some sleep.
My nurse says, okay, I'll close your curtain to give
me respect and privacy. In the meantime, the party reads
on in the ward. How on earth are the nurse
is supposed to police that and say, look, you've got
(03:12):
to keep the noise down. You know if you've been
on a ward that it does not limit the patients,
do not limit their visitors to one or two.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
I think this is something that is, you know, a
part of care that happens every day in terms of
patients having visitors. So it's not something that's different to
what already occurs in the clinical environment. What this is
about is when a patient is feeling vulnerable or needing
support of a nominated person, that is their right to
(03:44):
have that support. In terms of the day to day
operations and management of the clinical environment, that is led
by our leeds on the floor, so.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Who are overworked, understaffed, which is why their families are
being brought in in it. And if, as I said before,
the Famili's actually rolled up their sleeves and did do
some of the work and cleaned up the loose and
went and got their own food and put away their rubbish,
then great, that's not what's happening. I've seen family members
ballowing out to nursing stuff to go and get them
(04:16):
some food because they're hungry, treating them like unpaid waitresses.
They do not limit themselves to one or two. And
what happens to my right to recover and recover peacefully?
Is there a room I can go to where I
can be by myself, so I'm not part of the
SPARO lead recovery.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Patient centered care is a decisions that are led by
patients and with fire. And you'll probably know this carey
probably in your own experience. When you are unwell, you
require the support of those that support your recovery.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
No, I need good drugs, good beautiful.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
And passion and care for those that are that are
in our care and ensuring that SARNO is at the
center of their recovery and managing the clinical environment. It's
not unusual to have farnow and visitors in our environment,
but this is again, as I said, part of the
code of patients Rights. It's about having expectations of compassions
(05:15):
for those that are requiring support. Not everybody will, but
those that do require it, you know it's your right to.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Do so why can't they do it away from other people?
Why can't I have a right to sleep through the night?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
There are clinicians that are there twenty four to seven
and the over and understaffed, as you know, dispute that
we have the lowest tun over we've had in a
very long time. We've got a closed vacancy rate, so
you know, it's a dynamic environment and our staff thing
(05:52):
is managed and guided by clinical judgment each and every date.
I'm sure that we have the resources at the right
time and at the right place for patients center and
out here.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Registered nurse here says a text total nightmare with multiple
family members visiting for everyone makes it very unsafe for
the patient. You can't actually reach the patient, drains wounds,
or give medication. Four beded rooms are too small to
allow this. The patient needs rest and quiet to recover.
Sometimes the visiting becomes an outing for the whole family.
(06:24):
There are babies crawling on hospital floors and neighboring patients
feel really vulnerable, especially at night. This is one of million,
like hundreds of texts might yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
And myself as well, working in a clinical environment every day.
We've always said, as I said, we've always had visitors
and so it's around clinical judgment for decision making, having
that flexibility from our experienced leaders on the frontline who
manage visitors and the needs of patients every day. And
sometimes when we do have you know, there might be
(07:00):
more groups of patients at a certain times. Again, you
have to take into account what's happening in that moment
time to manage it with your experience and with football
decision making around managing that to be respectful of everyone
in the environment.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Not they're not respectful, and I don't expect the nurses
to police it.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Well, I wouldn't say it's policing. Again, it comes back
to that, there is patients have a code, there's a
code of rights, and people are entitled to have support
if they require it and not everybody does. Not everybody
will have utilized having twenty four to seven. But what
this is about is about bringing patients centered care to
(07:41):
our work.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
What about my patient centered guy where I want peace
and quiet and I want to be able to sleep.
Why can't Why does the right to have many many
visitors trump my right to get better quickly?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
No, this is about a nominated person.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
It is not Nardine, And you know that it's.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Not for a group of people. And that's not the
normal Perry Nadine that is of people at all times.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
That is absolute nonsense, that it's not groups of people.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Even in childhouse, say for example, having parents as part
of care is absolutely embraced and it's supported so that
children have a parent there overnight. That's something that's always
been there. And again, this is about creating consistency across
the organization to guide and support both patients and staff
(08:36):
around nominated support nominated support person when and where it's
required for a patient based on their needs, if that's
what they require. So it's placing again the patient at
the center of You keep.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Repeating that which patients are you placing it the center
because you're not placing.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Me there or patient.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
No, you're not patient because those who require privacy, security,
safety aren't getting that. You're not listening to my needs.
I want to be safe, secure, I want to feel
like my privacy is protected by more than a flimsy curtain.
I want to be able to sleep. I'm not going
(09:19):
to be able to do that with twenty four hour
seven visitor access. If we were living in nineteen thirty four,
where people understood the collective good, sure and collective responsibility, Sure,
we don't at the moment we live where my rights
are more important than everybody else's. And what you're saying
is that I don't have any rights. If I want
(09:40):
peace and quiet.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Now everyone has, everyone has.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
How will I get it there? How will I get it?
Speaker 3 (09:48):
There? Are are codes of expectations both and how.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Do they work in practice? And those codes of.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
And code their code of rights for patients who are
entitled to have support. Again, it'll come down. It comes
down every day in real time, thoughtful decision making, support
and experience of leaders of frontline who manage visitors.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
That is not their job. They shouldn't have to manage
visitors twenty four to seven.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
It's part of I think it's about actually putting this
back into the context of that we have always encouraged
support for patients, will continue to encourage support for patients
and managing that with our experienced staff on the front
line to ensure that clinical care is always prioritized. But
(10:36):
also if someone asks for the nominated person to stay
with them over not even one will, but they may
feel more comfortable because they're vulnerable. Then that's something that
we in terms of providing consistency guidance for both our
patients and stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
If I feel vulnerable because there are five or six
people next door to me, that doesn't matter because my neighbors,
writes Trump my own.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
No, it's not about having five or six people.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Well, there will be, and there has been.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Having a nominal and nominated.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Honestly, you haven't been in hospital recently. I just don't
believe you have been. I really don't. Or you haven't
been in hospital overnight? What willed are these people living in?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to news
talks it be from nine am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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