October 29, 2024 • 7 mins
The devil will be in the details when it comes to the Government’s new building consents scheme.
The proposal would allow competent tradespeople to self-certify consents on low risk builds, and businesses with a track record on delivering bigger projects would be able to access streamlined consenting.
Pete Wolfkamp, ZB’s Resident Builder, told Kerre Woodham that it makes sense that those doing roughly the same type of low risk project over and over again should be able to monitor their own standards.
He says there are things any competent tradesperson should be able to know when it’s done right, so taking those out would free up inspectors for other projects.
To mitigate any potential issues, Wolfkamp says contractors would have to move towards having insurance.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to The carry Wood, a morning's podcast from
News Talks B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Joining us now is Peter Wolfcamp, our resident builder. A
very good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
To you, Pete, and a very good morningqu two carry
how very.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, thank you. What do you make of these changes?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Look as with all of these things, the devil will
be in the detail. Yeah, and I know it's a triteline,
but the reality is actually quite complex, right, And so
if they're talking about, you know, builders that build at
scale and to low risk, we're only talking about a
(00:44):
small number of houses potentially, because the you know, significant
number of our houses are not low risk, and they
are complex, and they're not necessarily built by large group
home builders. But it does make sense for those that
are doing roughly the same type of house that's low
risk over and over again that they should be able
to monitor their own standard and undertakes some of those inspectionions,
(01:09):
particularly the ones that you could consider low risk. So,
and I'm sure your listeners know, you do a build,
you do your bracing, and then you have embracing inspections,
and especially the inspector's coming on site if it's a
jib brace, they're going, okay, have you started fifty MILLI
because from the corner and then your screws are at
fifty fifty da da da da da da da. Now
that sort of thing. Competent trade person should be able
(01:32):
to know when they've done it right or not. And
so taking that out would free up and inspector for
an hour and times the number of buildings. So there's
there is some benefit to it. Is there's some risk,
there is how to mitigate the risk, Well, I think
we need to look much more strongly at insurance.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Who would have the insurance the builder?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I think the contractors are going to have to move
towards having insurance. And again that sounds simple, but in
actually as it happens in discussion with the minister a
little while ago, the fact is it's not when maybe
not that attractive to large global insurers to ensure for
business or for building risk here. So that's going to
be a challenge.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Why is it that sparkys don't cause problems self regulating?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I think it would be untrue to say that they
don't necessarily cause problems, but by and large, look there's
a higher arguably and if you get you know, a
plumber and a spark in a train layer and a
gas and a carpenter in a room, they will argue
about the levels of competency.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
They walk into a bar of.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
That's right, and before they get into they will talk about,
you know, who's the better trades person, right, what's the
level of qualification, the degree of risk, their competency. So
if you are a registered electrician, you have gone through
a long training period. There is maybe a little bit
more continuous professional development there those sorts of things. But yeah,
(03:09):
reality is gas that is self certify, Electricians self certify
and then they have electrical inspectors. So maybe we might
see something like that. So for example, on a new build,
the electrician will do the work, but then a dependent
electrical inspector will come along and assess it. So there
are checks and balances in the system that we don't
(03:30):
have in carpentry.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Right, and will they come in if the self that's
the detail.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, that's where it all gets down to the detail.
You know. I think it's a little bit the same
with the talk about remote inspections becoming the default position.
Now now I know there's been a fair amount of
concern about that that undertaking a remote inspection doesn't give
the inspector an overview of the entire site, and I
(04:04):
think most of us will. Though you arrive on site,
you look around, you get a general sense as to
whether or not what the level of competency of the
people on the site is. And so if you're not
seeing that, it's hard to gauge the overall competency. But
at the same time, it is way more efficient if
an inspector can dial in effectively to your phone and go, okay,
(04:27):
let's have a look at these critical things. Maybe not
for every single inspection, but it would be good because
actually I was talking to another chippy in the supermarket
last night and he was going, look, at the moment,
it's taking me a month to get a building inspection.
So that's really what the crux of the issue is
is that right now councils across the country seemingly are
(04:49):
under the pump. They can't get their people there in
order to keep the jobs running. So if you're standing
around for a week or two weeks, or if you're
a block layer waiting to grout the blocks and the
weather's about to turn and suddenly you can't get them
inspection for a week, well that causes significance layers and
in some cases damage.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
As the ghost of leaky buildings ever going to stop
haunting the construction.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
No, No, and to some degree, nor should it. I mean,
that was an appalling time for the industry. I think
there were a number of people that could see it coming,
and I don't know that, you know, I think it's
it is actually unfair to say it was the builder's fault.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Oh, there were so many, so many contributors building products.
It was the architects, it was the clients.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
It was the classic systemic failure, you know. So yes,
we do need to be cautious. I'm wondering whether one
of the things that I would probably be in favor
of is maybe we look at the LBP scheme again
and introduce a couple of new classes to the carpentry license.
Because currently there is just one carpentry license. There are
(06:00):
multiple site licenses, there are licenses for roofing and for
block laying and and those sorts of things, but there's
only one carpentry license. So maybe what we they could
look at is going, okay, well, how about we introduce
a higher level of competency. You know, you have to
prove your qualifications. You have to prove your ability and
(06:20):
at that point you get a carpentry two license and
that allows you to do the inspections yourself, or that
allows you to have the remote inspections.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
That would be my pitch, and I suppose too. If
you're one of those big builders, home builders, the Eugenians,
the gardeners ar they've got too much to lose to fail,
like if they cut corners, they've got a lot of
skin in the game.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah, And potentially they also operate sort of a QA
system within their organizations, so you know, they might have
a large number of trades people who have a reasonable
level of skill, but ideally above them would sit you know,
more qualified trades people with more experience who will do
that supervision. And they might have a large organization. Whether
(07:08):
that exists in a small organization probably not.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Brilliant always good to talk.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I think that they're doing something is great.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, long over Joe as we need it. Thank you, Sam. Yes,
and if you've got any questions then of course you
can ring peat and talk. That's exactly right. Lovely to talk.
Pete wolf Campell, resident build a News Talk said.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Bet for more from Kerry Wood and mornings. Listen live
to news talks that'd be from nine am weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to The carry Wood, a morning's podcast from
News Talks B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Joining us now is Peter Wolfcamp, our resident builder. A
very good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
To you, Pete, and a very good morningqu two carry
how very.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, thank you. What do you make of these changes?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Look as with all of these things, the devil will
be in the detail. Yeah, and I know it's a triteline,
but the reality is actually quite complex, right, And so
if they're talking about, you know, builders that build at
scale and to low risk, we're only talking about a
(00:44):
small number of houses potentially, because the you know, significant
number of our houses are not low risk, and they
are complex, and they're not necessarily built by large group
home builders. But it does make sense for those that
are doing roughly the same type of house that's low
risk over and over again that they should be able
to monitor their own standard and undertakes some of those inspectionions,
(01:09):
particularly the ones that you could consider low risk. So,
and I'm sure your listeners know, you do a build,
you do your bracing, and then you have embracing inspections,
and especially the inspector's coming on site if it's a
jib brace, they're going, okay, have you started fifty MILLI
because from the corner and then your screws are at
fifty fifty da da da da da da da. Now
that sort of thing. Competent trade person should be able
(01:32):
to know when they've done it right or not. And
so taking that out would free up and inspector for
an hour and times the number of buildings. So there's
there is some benefit to it. Is there's some risk,
there is how to mitigate the risk, Well, I think
we need to look much more strongly at insurance.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Who would have the insurance the builder?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I think the contractors are going to have to move
towards having insurance. And again that sounds simple, but in
actually as it happens in discussion with the minister a
little while ago, the fact is it's not when maybe
not that attractive to large global insurers to ensure for
business or for building risk here. So that's going to
be a challenge.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Why is it that sparkys don't cause problems self regulating?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I think it would be untrue to say that they
don't necessarily cause problems, but by and large, look there's
a higher arguably and if you get you know, a
plumber and a spark in a train layer and a
gas and a carpenter in a room, they will argue
about the levels of competency.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
They walk into a bar of.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
That's right, and before they get into they will talk about,
you know, who's the better trades person, right, what's the
level of qualification, the degree of risk, their competency. So
if you are a registered electrician, you have gone through
a long training period. There is maybe a little bit
more continuous professional development there those sorts of things. But yeah,
(03:09):
reality is gas that is self certify, Electricians self certify
and then they have electrical inspectors. So maybe we might
see something like that. So for example, on a new build,
the electrician will do the work, but then a dependent
electrical inspector will come along and assess it. So there
are checks and balances in the system that we don't
(03:30):
have in carpentry.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Right, and will they come in if the self that's
the detail.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, that's where it all gets down to the detail.
You know. I think it's a little bit the same
with the talk about remote inspections becoming the default position.
Now now I know there's been a fair amount of
concern about that that undertaking a remote inspection doesn't give
the inspector an overview of the entire site, and I
(04:04):
think most of us will. Though you arrive on site,
you look around, you get a general sense as to
whether or not what the level of competency of the
people on the site is. And so if you're not
seeing that, it's hard to gauge the overall competency. But
at the same time, it is way more efficient if
an inspector can dial in effectively to your phone and go, okay,
(04:27):
let's have a look at these critical things. Maybe not
for every single inspection, but it would be good because
actually I was talking to another chippy in the supermarket
last night and he was going, look, at the moment,
it's taking me a month to get a building inspection.
So that's really what the crux of the issue is
is that right now councils across the country seemingly are
(04:49):
under the pump. They can't get their people there in
order to keep the jobs running. So if you're standing
around for a week or two weeks, or if you're
a block layer waiting to grout the blocks and the
weather's about to turn and suddenly you can't get them
inspection for a week, well that causes significance layers and
in some cases damage.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
As the ghost of leaky buildings ever going to stop
haunting the construction.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
No, No, and to some degree, nor should it. I mean,
that was an appalling time for the industry. I think
there were a number of people that could see it coming,
and I don't know that, you know, I think it's
it is actually unfair to say it was the builder's fault.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Oh, there were so many, so many contributors building products.
It was the architects, it was the clients.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
It was the classic systemic failure, you know. So yes,
we do need to be cautious. I'm wondering whether one
of the things that I would probably be in favor
of is maybe we look at the LBP scheme again
and introduce a couple of new classes to the carpentry license.
Because currently there is just one carpentry license. There are
(06:00):
multiple site licenses, there are licenses for roofing and for
block laying and and those sorts of things, but there's
only one carpentry license. So maybe what we they could
look at is going, okay, well, how about we introduce
a higher level of competency. You know, you have to
prove your qualifications. You have to prove your ability and
(06:20):
at that point you get a carpentry two license and
that allows you to do the inspections yourself, or that
allows you to have the remote inspections.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
That would be my pitch, and I suppose too. If
you're one of those big builders, home builders, the Eugenians,
the gardeners ar they've got too much to lose to fail,
like if they cut corners, they've got a lot of
skin in the game.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah, And potentially they also operate sort of a QA
system within their organizations, so you know, they might have
a large number of trades people who have a reasonable
level of skill, but ideally above them would sit you know,
more qualified trades people with more experience who will do
that supervision. And they might have a large organization. Whether
(07:08):
that exists in a small organization probably not.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Brilliant always good to talk.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I think that they're doing something is great.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, long over Joe as we need it. Thank you, Sam. Yes,
and if you've got any questions then of course you
can ring peat and talk. That's exactly right. Lovely to talk.
Pete wolf Campell, resident build a News Talk said.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Bet for more from Kerry Wood and mornings. Listen live
to news talks that'd be from nine am weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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