September 21, 2025 • 8 mins
Wilding pines, the invasive species also known as Pinus contorta, are posing a massive threat to the environment.
It was highlighted on Country Calendar last by Steve Satterthwaite, who runs Muller Station in the Awatere Valley in Marlborough.
He said the wilding pines don't just choke up pastoral land, there's also the downstream effect of loss of water yield into the rivers, and in Marlborough, that effects the vineyards.
Federated Farmers pest animal and weed spokesperson Richard Dawkins told Kerre Woodham that more funding and support is needed to properly tackle the spread of these invasive plants.
'It is possible to get it under control, but it just comes down to resourcing, right? So we need more funding.'
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Morning's podcast from news Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He'd be as we have been discussing wilding pines. The
invasive species also known as Pinus contorta, opposing a massive
threat to the environment, was highlighted on Country Calendar last
night by Steve Sattathwaite, who runs Molestation in the Albertry
Valley in Marlborough. Apparently that was shot some months ago
before the funding was announced too, so thank you for that,
(00:32):
he said. The wilding pines last night, he said, the
wilding pines don't just choke up pastoral land. There's also
the downstream effect, the loss of water yield into the
rivers and in Marlborough that will affect the vineyards. There's
also the threat of forest fire. Federated Farmers Pest, Animal
and Weed spokesperson as Richard Dawkins. He joins me, Now,
(00:53):
very good morning, do.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
You Yeah, good morning, Carrie.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Has the horse faulted? Is it pointless trying to shut
the stable door? Now? I just don't see how you
can control I'm given how quickly they seed and spread.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, yeah, well look you're looking at a couple of
million hectares. Now that these wildings have spread over. Look,
it is possible to get it under control, but it
just comes down to resourcing, right, So we need more funding. Yeah,
well we need more funding, but also alternate methods of
control as well more cost effective solutions like what well,
(01:34):
I think some of your callers they're very informed and
they hit the nail on the head and that a
really cost effective solution is to actually get farmers back
on the land. And look, carry This isn't the farming
lobby saying hey, you know, let's farm every square inch
of New Zealand. This is us saying, hey, we've got
a serious weed and pest issue here. You know, about
(01:56):
half a million hectares of this land was previously farmed
and it was absolutely beautiful. It's gone backwards in the
last twenty or thirty years when stock were removed.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And why were they Was that a choice by farmers
because they can make more from growing pine trees.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
No, So it was a process called tenure review when
the crown sort of decided this country was better off
retired from grazing for biodiversity outcomes. And the great irony
is kerry that the bio biodiversity has gone backwards at
a rapid rate, right.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, exactly when it comes to when it comes to
the definition of wilding, I thought wilding referred to any
exotic species that was growing unwanted in places it shouldn't be.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, look, I mean it's a bit of a blanket
term for exotic conifers that are spreading through the high country. Yeah.
So yeah, contorted Douglas fir radiator, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Of them. Is commercial forestry worth it given how much
it costs to control the problem of slash and the
problem of the radiator also creating molding pines.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, we'll look at federated farmers where you know, we
promote the right tree in the right place and best
land use. The issue with forestry, certainly in recent times,
is it's very much cropped up by the etes. Some
data we've seen shows that in the last five years,
seventy percent of commercial forestry income is actually from selling
(03:33):
carbon credits. So when you've got such a massive portion
of your industry being propped up by the etes, it's
very debatable whether that's the right tree in the right place.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
In terms of a Ponzi scheme. But then you've got
farmers who might have been, you know, slaving their guts
out seven days a week for forty years. Who get
somebody coming along saying I'm going to buy your land
and turn it into pine and here's a massive amount
of money. You can't really blame them for selling up.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah, yeah, that's absolutely right. And that's why we concentrate
on the settings at a central government level. And it's
uneven and uneven playing field. And yeah, that artificial inflation
of land values, I mean that means the next generation
of armers can't actually afford to get on to the land.
You know, this forestry, this eat es driven forestry was
(04:23):
selling for as much as twenty thousand dollars a hectare,
when you know a young sheep and beef farmer could
likely only afford sort of five to seven thousand dollars.
So it's just eroding the future of our sector.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Given that the auctions, you know, we haven't been able
to sell any carbon credits add auctions over the last
year couple of years at least. Is the whole Ponzi
scheme going to come crashing done sometime soon and then
there'll be a readjustment.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Well, it's important to note there are there is the
secondary market, so that's where existing credits are traded, and
it seems that there's an oversupply in that secondary market,
and that comes from people investing in carbon forestry and
actually banking those credits and then selling them. So while
it may appear, you know, credit's not selling it, option
(05:11):
right means they're not required. There is a bit of
trading going on in the background, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
But aside from all that, you're quite right, it's just
having people being custodians of the land, being on the
land and caring for it. And do you think if
there are enough people that we can stay in control
and get the upper hand over the pest, the mammals,
the noxious weeds, the wildings, the lot.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, well, farmers have certainly done that, you know, since
farming began in New Zealand. Hence why that's whe're advocating
to actually get farmers back on some of that country,
you know, the livestock control, the weeds, but then also
farmers of course they're generating income for the country, but
also spending money on pest control. When it comes to
(06:07):
land use, it's just really important that we're not having
adverse effects on our neighbors. And when you see a
lot of this forestry, often carbon farms, you know they'll
do their pest control during the establishment phase, but then
after year four or five or six, when the trees
are up and away, you're not actually seeing that investment
in weed and pest control, and that is when it
(06:28):
has a massive impact on farmers around them.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I've only got two hectares up in the far North
which trying to stay on top of the gorse and
the pampas. It's si Apian. You know, you can clear
it and you can plant it with natives, and that's
what we've done and that helps keep helps keep the
exotics away. But when the over the fence, you've got
(06:54):
masses of gorse that's on council land because they can't
afford to clare it and pampers. It's just continual. And
that's only two hectares. I can't even imagine what it's
like with one hundred hectares.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Or do unectairs. Yeah, you're preaching to the converted caryat
the story of my life sleep yeah, yeah, And look,
and the farming sector is doing really really well at
the moment with you know, schedules, you know, returns very positive,
but you know the last few years have been challenging
and we do defer expenses. You know, some people defer fertilizer,
(07:28):
and weed control is one of them too. So look,
there'll be a lot of money and resource going into
weed control playing catch up. But this will be one
of our key election priorities for the next government is
actually putting increased resource into weed and pest control because
farmers can do their bit, but like as you say,
if the dock estate and if forestry and if councils
(07:49):
aren't resourced enough to attack the problem as well, then
you know it's an uphill battle.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Good to talk. Thank you so much for your expertise.
I really really appreciate it. News Talk said be Richard Dawkins,
Federated Farmer's Pest, Animal and Weed spokes us.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
More from Kerrywood and Mornings.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Listen live to News Talks at b from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Morning's podcast from news Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He'd be as we have been discussing wilding pines. The
invasive species also known as Pinus contorta, opposing a massive
threat to the environment, was highlighted on Country Calendar last
night by Steve Sattathwaite, who runs Molestation in the Albertry
Valley in Marlborough. Apparently that was shot some months ago
before the funding was announced too, so thank you for that,
(00:32):
he said. The wilding pines last night, he said, the
wilding pines don't just choke up pastoral land. There's also
the downstream effect, the loss of water yield into the
rivers and in Marlborough that will affect the vineyards. There's
also the threat of forest fire. Federated Farmers Pest, Animal
and Weed spokesperson as Richard Dawkins. He joins me, Now,
(00:53):
very good morning, do.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
You Yeah, good morning, Carrie.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Has the horse faulted? Is it pointless trying to shut
the stable door? Now? I just don't see how you
can control I'm given how quickly they seed and spread.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, yeah, well look you're looking at a couple of
million hectares. Now that these wildings have spread over. Look,
it is possible to get it under control, but it
just comes down to resourcing, right, So we need more funding. Yeah,
well we need more funding, but also alternate methods of
control as well more cost effective solutions like what well,
(01:34):
I think some of your callers they're very informed and
they hit the nail on the head and that a
really cost effective solution is to actually get farmers back
on the land. And look, carry This isn't the farming
lobby saying hey, you know, let's farm every square inch
of New Zealand. This is us saying, hey, we've got
a serious weed and pest issue here. You know, about
(01:56):
half a million hectares of this land was previously farmed
and it was absolutely beautiful. It's gone backwards in the
last twenty or thirty years when stock were removed.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And why were they Was that a choice by farmers
because they can make more from growing pine trees.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
No, So it was a process called tenure review when
the crown sort of decided this country was better off
retired from grazing for biodiversity outcomes. And the great irony
is kerry that the bio biodiversity has gone backwards at
a rapid rate, right.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, exactly when it comes to when it comes to
the definition of wilding, I thought wilding referred to any
exotic species that was growing unwanted in places it shouldn't be.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, look, I mean it's a bit of a blanket
term for exotic conifers that are spreading through the high country. Yeah.
So yeah, contorted Douglas fir radiator, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Of them. Is commercial forestry worth it given how much
it costs to control the problem of slash and the
problem of the radiator also creating molding pines.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, we'll look at federated farmers where you know, we
promote the right tree in the right place and best
land use. The issue with forestry, certainly in recent times,
is it's very much cropped up by the etes. Some
data we've seen shows that in the last five years,
seventy percent of commercial forestry income is actually from selling
(03:33):
carbon credits. So when you've got such a massive portion
of your industry being propped up by the etes, it's
very debatable whether that's the right tree in the right place.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
In terms of a Ponzi scheme. But then you've got
farmers who might have been, you know, slaving their guts
out seven days a week for forty years. Who get
somebody coming along saying I'm going to buy your land
and turn it into pine and here's a massive amount
of money. You can't really blame them for selling up.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah, yeah, that's absolutely right. And that's why we concentrate
on the settings at a central government level. And it's
uneven and uneven playing field. And yeah, that artificial inflation
of land values, I mean that means the next generation
of armers can't actually afford to get on to the land.
You know, this forestry, this eat es driven forestry was
(04:23):
selling for as much as twenty thousand dollars a hectare,
when you know a young sheep and beef farmer could
likely only afford sort of five to seven thousand dollars.
So it's just eroding the future of our sector.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Given that the auctions, you know, we haven't been able
to sell any carbon credits add auctions over the last
year couple of years at least. Is the whole Ponzi
scheme going to come crashing done sometime soon and then
there'll be a readjustment.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Well, it's important to note there are there is the
secondary market, so that's where existing credits are traded, and
it seems that there's an oversupply in that secondary market,
and that comes from people investing in carbon forestry and
actually banking those credits and then selling them. So while
it may appear, you know, credit's not selling it, option
(05:11):
right means they're not required. There is a bit of
trading going on in the background, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
But aside from all that, you're quite right, it's just
having people being custodians of the land, being on the
land and caring for it. And do you think if
there are enough people that we can stay in control
and get the upper hand over the pest, the mammals,
the noxious weeds, the wildings, the lot.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, well, farmers have certainly done that, you know, since
farming began in New Zealand. Hence why that's whe're advocating
to actually get farmers back on some of that country,
you know, the livestock control, the weeds, but then also
farmers of course they're generating income for the country, but
also spending money on pest control. When it comes to
(06:07):
land use, it's just really important that we're not having
adverse effects on our neighbors. And when you see a
lot of this forestry, often carbon farms, you know they'll
do their pest control during the establishment phase, but then
after year four or five or six, when the trees
are up and away, you're not actually seeing that investment
in weed and pest control, and that is when it
(06:28):
has a massive impact on farmers around them.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I've only got two hectares up in the far North
which trying to stay on top of the gorse and
the pampas. It's si Apian. You know, you can clear
it and you can plant it with natives, and that's
what we've done and that helps keep helps keep the
exotics away. But when the over the fence, you've got
(06:54):
masses of gorse that's on council land because they can't
afford to clare it and pampers. It's just continual. And
that's only two hectares. I can't even imagine what it's
like with one hundred hectares.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Or do unectairs. Yeah, you're preaching to the converted caryat
the story of my life sleep yeah, yeah, And look,
and the farming sector is doing really really well at
the moment with you know, schedules, you know, returns very positive,
but you know the last few years have been challenging
and we do defer expenses. You know, some people defer fertilizer,
(07:28):
and weed control is one of them too. So look,
there'll be a lot of money and resource going into
weed control playing catch up. But this will be one
of our key election priorities for the next government is
actually putting increased resource into weed and pest control because
farmers can do their bit, but like as you say,
if the dock estate and if forestry and if councils
(07:49):
aren't resourced enough to attack the problem as well, then
you know it's an uphill battle.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Good to talk. Thank you so much for your expertise.
I really really appreciate it. News Talk said be Richard Dawkins,
Federated Farmer's Pest, Animal and Weed spokes us.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
More from Kerrywood and Mornings.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Listen live to News Talks at b from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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