The number of emergency housing applications being declined has soared as the Government tightens restrictions.
Data obtained by our newsroom under the Official Information Act shows applications have dropped significantly to the end of June, but the number being declined continues to rise.
More applications are being declined than granted in Auckland.
Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka told Kerre Woodham they have a range of measures either in place, or that they’re putting in place, to deal with housing insecurity and homelessness.
He says that building a house or just having housing isn’t necessarily an enduring solution, as homelessness has a number of fathers and mothers, such as poverty or substance abuse issues.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He'd be as you would have heard yesterday. The number
of emergency housing applications being declined has soared as the
government titans restrictions. Data obtained by a newsroom under the
OIA shows applications have dropped significantly to the end of June,
but the number being declined continues to rise. New rules
(00:30):
were introduced last year allowing officials to decline grants if
they believed a person had caused or contributed to their
immediate need for housing. Social service providers say the number
of homeless have spiked. Outreach providers say there's been a
ninety percent increase in homelessness in Auckland since September after
(00:51):
the tightening up of the emergency housing eligibility rules. The
Salvation Army, the City Mission and number of others have
all pointed to a rise in homelessness. We've been wanting
to speak to Associate Housing Minister the time of Portucka
for a way while now, and tricky because he's a busy,
busy minister and he's got a lot on his plate
and it's during working hours. But he's here now what
(01:14):
a a minister.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Kyoto carey, and thank you for having me on the
coll and you can call me outside working ourls too
a few or two.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Oh, that's very good of you.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
That's very good.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Look.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I was so buoyed and cheered when I saw that
families who were in those ghastly motels had been moved
out and put into homes, proper homes, because those motels
were no place for them. And at the end of
the year of last year, there was really good news
coming out of your office. There's not so much good
news coming from the housing providers. What is happening. We're
(01:49):
getting conflicting stories from you and from the charity providers.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Yes, thank you, Kieren, thanks for the opportunity to come on. Look.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
When we came into administration, we established a number of
targets across various here as, including emergency housing as you
referred to. There was a moral, fiscal, and social disaster
with a large scale emergency housing. They are about three
three hundred and forty two households in October twenty twenty
three that were living in emergency It was costing one
million plus a day for the taxpail and the goal
(02:21):
was to reduce it by seventy five percent by twenty thirty.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
We did that in twelve months. But I was also
very charged to get.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Kids out of emergency because it's no place for kids
to grow up in deep, dank, dark dank motels. And
over three thousand have come out of emergency hotels since
we've been administration. We've also been very deliberate around accelerating
kids out but making sure that people with genuine need
are supported. But those that don't necessarily have a genuine need,
(02:50):
or the need can be met another way, such as
alternative housing being available, we might be able to support
them in different ways.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
They don't need to go in an emergency hotel.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
But whatever the case, it's gone from three three four
to two to less than five hundred households in emergency
house in today.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So where have they gone? Because accord you like, if
you're going to look at the figures from the Salvation
Army and from Auckland City Mission, who are reputable agencies
that'd say they've gone on the street.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Look, there's a variety of reports. What I could say
is around the data. The only official data has really
been census, and between twenty eighteen twenty twenty three, under
of the previous government, the number of people living without shelter,
rough sleeping in cars and tents went up, and the
data suggests that the number of people living without shelter
(03:41):
has gone up a little more. And we have a
number of responses to that and to the massive housing
crisis that we have as a country, whether or not
those are short term, mid term or long term tactics
that we've undertaken, and things that we're doing to create
the appropriate house, the right house in the right place,
with the right support, Kiri, because it's not just about
(04:04):
a house. Homeless has a number of fathers and mothers,
whether or not that's the poverty and the economic crisis
that we're in. People doing it really tough, a lot
of disconnection with family and friends for people who are
living on the street, drags and alcohol and other things.
So building a house or just having housing isn't necessarily
(04:27):
an enduring solution, and we know large scale emergency housing
definitely is not an enduring solution. But I could talk
about those different steps and things that we're doing as well.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, except I don't know how you would rely on
a census as opposed to a Salvation Army report. I mean,
who is living in a car would be filling out
their censors for.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
I think that's fair. But also fair is that there
is a census and that demonstrates that there was a
lift in the previous adment. But we've got to deal
with what we've got in front of us, and we
engage with the Salvation Army, Auckland City Mission, the People's Project,
a number of organizations actually get out on the street
and meet with people who are homeless and find out
(05:10):
what's going on in their lives. You know, I think
that's really really important that myself and officials actually get
around with the providers to actually meet people who have
got a pretty exposed and dangerous, risky situation in front
of them. But look, you know you'll be well aware,
Minister Bishop and others across our cabinet colleagues are really
geared to increase the supply of housing. We've got those
(05:33):
long term steps in place, like replacing the r RMA,
infrastructure funding and building and construction changes with Minister Pink.
We've also got some very strong midterm measures, for example,
supporting the Salvation and others to build more housing. Because
we don't think that kying or order is the solution,
just like we don't think large scale emergency housing. So
we've disproportionately really gone into support community housing providers with
(05:58):
some more funded places for them to then go and
buy houses or build houses for those in need. We've
got over a half a billion dollars per annum that's
going into transitional housing and other supports. On a yearly basis,
we've supported Marty Housing. I had an announcement at White
Tongue earlier this year ye two hundred million for four
hundred houses to be built by Marty Housing providers, and
(06:21):
Kyer Order continues to build housing. So we've got a
build program in place, and just recently, as a result
of some of the concerns that you've outlined today, we've
asked officials to look at some short term options to
address some of the rough sleeping and living without shelter
challenges that we've got, and we've talked with a lot
of providers just in the last four to six weeks.
(06:42):
In Standby, I hope to make an announcement alongside Monster
Bishop shortly right.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I mean, I know, you know we were baying for
people who were abusing the privilege of living in a
kying order home to be booted. You know that whole thing,
you know, treat them with love and treat them with respect,
and love and respect will follow. That didn't work. But
where did they go?
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Well, the first thing is where people are being abusive
or violence and they're living in Kind of Order properties.
We've taken and given some real direction and clarification about
what kind of Order needs to do, and they've really
taken action, and we've seen a huge upswing and notices
that are given to people who are playing up, and
(07:25):
a huge number of notices have been issued. And it's
often the case and nearly most situations with FARNO living
in Kind of Order properties, they're fine, very respectful, very
support above the community. There's a few that aren't, and
Kind of Order has taken some pretty strong and directive
action to make sure that they're given appropriate warnings, three
(07:46):
warnings and often some support to say, hey, we know
you're having some troubles. Can we direct you towards social
service providers or others that might be able to help
resolve your situation for you so you don't have these blowouts.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
So when they're affected though, do you know where they
go or is that kind of job done? You gave
them a home, they abuse that trust, they're out.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
And you don't well.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Often, especially where there's a situation with kids carry we
sort of direct them or engage them with social service providers,
so there are other ways to address their housing challenges.
But some people just leave, and you know, when they're
in that sort of situation, we don't expect them to
come around the corner and ask for emergency housing option either,
(08:31):
because they've contributed to their situation.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So there'd be in that category.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
They are in that category, but for the most part,
carry more than sixty percent nearly two thirds of people
that apply for emergency housing are given emergency housing support.
Of the rest, most of them are given some sort
of support, whether or not that's a hardship assistance grant
or accommodation supplement or other housing support. So the vast majority,
(08:56):
I'm talking eighty to ninety percent of people who apply
for emergency housing either end up in emergency housing or
get some sort of government support.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Okay, Now, the other thing that they were talking about
whether and I heard a social housing advocate and commentator
talking to Mike yesterday saying that teenagers who wanted to
set up their own homes were just were given emergency
housing and given housing grants, and he knew of a
(09:25):
number of teenagers who at the first sign of trouble
would just say, well, stuff you, I'm out and the
government can look after me, and a number of them
were being declined and given the sort of support they
needed to get back in with their family or fano.
And you don't want the government and a benefit to
be the first port call for a grumpy sixteen year old.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
No, and the government generally should not be your father
or mother, you know, and all your grandparents. You know,
it's really important for us to ensure that we align
with our values of having strong families and strong communities.
Hence why I was so supportive of community housing providers.
But parents and far no taken responsibility for their young people.
(10:08):
Now there are situations where there is a massive disconnect
or break down in the relationships. We do have some
supported youth transitional housing around the country, it's not you know,
thousands and thousands of places, and maybe we can look
at doing some more in that space, but you know,
I'm really triggered where there are young kids or young mums,
(10:30):
pregnant mums who end up in emergency house and that's
no place for them to be. No, and you know
it's important for us, and certainly my officials have been
directed if they find out there are young mums or
young pregnant mums and emergency, we've got to get moving
and find some options for them rather than in motels.
You know, I had the chance to meet one young
lady who'd had four kids before, she was twenty in
(10:52):
total and living in an emergency hotel for four or
five years. She'd been prioritized through our decision around Priority one,
given priority to move out of emergency and into a
social house. She was so happy to be in that house.
But the most important thing is she had some aunties
farner order providers that were supporting her down there in
(11:12):
total on her to make sure she understood what it
took to look after a house, to look after your kids,
when you're looking after a house rather than in a motel.
Those sorts of situations, in my view, really demonstrate the
power not only having the right place in the right house,
but also the right support for people in need.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
So are you happy with the progress you've made in
the portfolio. It's a tricky one and you know the
last National government came unstuck on housing. Remember when them
that I were opening to take in the homeless and
the rough sleeping and that's pretty much you know, it
was a big election issue and pretty much caused the
(11:52):
last National government to come out undone. So are you
happy with the progress you have made?
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Well?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I think the housing ecosystem isn't really well set up
to provide and facilitate affordable housing for the masses carry
and that's why we've been so determined around resetting the ecosystem.
The second thing is that you know, we've got some
challenges that we're really proud of what we're done to
get kids in particular out of that moral disaster that
(12:19):
was large scale emergency housing. But we have some other
issues that we're seeing as well. We've got some midterm
support for Chips Marty Housing Kying order to continue their
build program, and we're looking at short term options right
now because we know that there are some challenges, particularly
in some places like Auckland, Lington, kroshetch Hamilton even but
(12:40):
you know we're working on that and as I said before,
just stand by because we hope to come back from
the MAHI that we asked m Hudd the Ministry House
and Urban Development to undertake about three or four weeks ago,
and we're going to come back to you on that soon.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Well, you are very welcome on the show at any time,
especially when you've got an announcement to make.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
Thank you, Karen.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
I really appreciate the chances to have accord at all
about what's going on. And look, we think people like
the Salvation others do an amazing job getting out in
supporting people, and we want to make sure that the
system is working properly. And look at transitional housing, the
vacancy rates about ten percent at any one time. If
we could squeeze that vacancy rate down a little bit,
I think we have a little bit more space for
(13:24):
people to actually be supported when they need that transition
or when they need that short term support to get
them back up on their feet and walk in and
running again. The money that we've undertaken, we need to
work really hard to make sure we don't have that
type of situation that we've seen in the past in
(13:46):
places like Hamilton where I am, and people like the
people's project and others are part of that more comprehensive solution.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
It's not just government, it's community.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
It's fino Ewe Marti providers, government or working together really efficiently.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yoda that is Tama Putuka, Associate Housing Minister.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
For more from Kerrywood and Mornings, listen live to News
Talks at B from nine am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Carrywood and Morning's podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He'd be as you would have heard yesterday. The number
of emergency housing applications being declined has soared as the
government titans restrictions. Data obtained by a newsroom under the
OIA shows applications have dropped significantly to the end of June,
but the number being declined continues to rise. New rules
(00:30):
were introduced last year allowing officials to decline grants if
they believed a person had caused or contributed to their
immediate need for housing. Social service providers say the number
of homeless have spiked. Outreach providers say there's been a
ninety percent increase in homelessness in Auckland since September after
(00:51):
the tightening up of the emergency housing eligibility rules. The
Salvation Army, the City Mission and number of others have
all pointed to a rise in homelessness. We've been wanting
to speak to Associate Housing Minister the time of Portucka
for a way while now, and tricky because he's a busy,
busy minister and he's got a lot on his plate
and it's during working hours. But he's here now what
(01:14):
a a minister.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Kyoto carey, and thank you for having me on the
coll and you can call me outside working ourls too
a few or two.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Oh, that's very good of you.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
That's very good.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Look.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I was so buoyed and cheered when I saw that
families who were in those ghastly motels had been moved
out and put into homes, proper homes, because those motels
were no place for them. And at the end of
the year of last year, there was really good news
coming out of your office. There's not so much good
news coming from the housing providers. What is happening. We're
(01:49):
getting conflicting stories from you and from the charity providers.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Yes, thank you, Kieren, thanks for the opportunity to come on. Look.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
When we came into administration, we established a number of
targets across various here as, including emergency housing as you
referred to. There was a moral, fiscal, and social disaster
with a large scale emergency housing. They are about three
three hundred and forty two households in October twenty twenty
three that were living in emergency It was costing one
million plus a day for the taxpail and the goal
(02:21):
was to reduce it by seventy five percent by twenty thirty.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
We did that in twelve months. But I was also
very charged to get.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Kids out of emergency because it's no place for kids
to grow up in deep, dank, dark dank motels. And
over three thousand have come out of emergency hotels since
we've been administration. We've also been very deliberate around accelerating
kids out but making sure that people with genuine need
are supported. But those that don't necessarily have a genuine need,
(02:50):
or the need can be met another way, such as
alternative housing being available, we might be able to support
them in different ways.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
They don't need to go in an emergency hotel.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
But whatever the case, it's gone from three three four
to two to less than five hundred households in emergency
house in today.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So where have they gone? Because accord you like, if
you're going to look at the figures from the Salvation
Army and from Auckland City Mission, who are reputable agencies
that'd say they've gone on the street.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Look, there's a variety of reports. What I could say
is around the data. The only official data has really
been census, and between twenty eighteen twenty twenty three, under
of the previous government, the number of people living without shelter,
rough sleeping in cars and tents went up, and the
data suggests that the number of people living without shelter
(03:41):
has gone up a little more. And we have a
number of responses to that and to the massive housing
crisis that we have as a country, whether or not
those are short term, mid term or long term tactics
that we've undertaken, and things that we're doing to create
the appropriate house, the right house in the right place,
with the right support, Kiri, because it's not just about
(04:04):
a house. Homeless has a number of fathers and mothers,
whether or not that's the poverty and the economic crisis
that we're in. People doing it really tough, a lot
of disconnection with family and friends for people who are
living on the street, drags and alcohol and other things.
So building a house or just having housing isn't necessarily
(04:27):
an enduring solution, and we know large scale emergency housing
definitely is not an enduring solution. But I could talk
about those different steps and things that we're doing as well.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, except I don't know how you would rely on
a census as opposed to a Salvation Army report. I mean,
who is living in a car would be filling out
their censors for.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
I think that's fair. But also fair is that there
is a census and that demonstrates that there was a
lift in the previous adment. But we've got to deal
with what we've got in front of us, and we
engage with the Salvation Army, Auckland City Mission, the People's Project,
a number of organizations actually get out on the street
and meet with people who are homeless and find out
(05:10):
what's going on in their lives. You know, I think
that's really really important that myself and officials actually get
around with the providers to actually meet people who have
got a pretty exposed and dangerous, risky situation in front
of them. But look, you know you'll be well aware,
Minister Bishop and others across our cabinet colleagues are really
geared to increase the supply of housing. We've got those
(05:33):
long term steps in place, like replacing the r RMA,
infrastructure funding and building and construction changes with Minister Pink.
We've also got some very strong midterm measures, for example,
supporting the Salvation and others to build more housing. Because
we don't think that kying or order is the solution,
just like we don't think large scale emergency housing. So
we've disproportionately really gone into support community housing providers with
(05:58):
some more funded places for them to then go and
buy houses or build houses for those in need. We've
got over a half a billion dollars per annum that's
going into transitional housing and other supports. On a yearly basis,
we've supported Marty Housing. I had an announcement at White
Tongue earlier this year ye two hundred million for four
hundred houses to be built by Marty Housing providers, and
(06:21):
Kyer Order continues to build housing. So we've got a
build program in place, and just recently, as a result
of some of the concerns that you've outlined today, we've
asked officials to look at some short term options to
address some of the rough sleeping and living without shelter
challenges that we've got, and we've talked with a lot
of providers just in the last four to six weeks.
(06:42):
In Standby, I hope to make an announcement alongside Monster
Bishop shortly right.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I mean, I know, you know we were baying for
people who were abusing the privilege of living in a
kying order home to be booted. You know that whole thing,
you know, treat them with love and treat them with respect,
and love and respect will follow. That didn't work. But
where did they go?
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Well, the first thing is where people are being abusive
or violence and they're living in Kind of Order properties.
We've taken and given some real direction and clarification about
what kind of Order needs to do, and they've really
taken action, and we've seen a huge upswing and notices
that are given to people who are playing up, and
(07:25):
a huge number of notices have been issued. And it's
often the case and nearly most situations with FARNO living
in Kind of Order properties, they're fine, very respectful, very
support above the community. There's a few that aren't, and
Kind of Order has taken some pretty strong and directive
action to make sure that they're given appropriate warnings, three
(07:46):
warnings and often some support to say, hey, we know
you're having some troubles. Can we direct you towards social
service providers or others that might be able to help
resolve your situation for you so you don't have these blowouts.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
So when they're affected though, do you know where they
go or is that kind of job done? You gave
them a home, they abuse that trust, they're out.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
And you don't well.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Often, especially where there's a situation with kids carry we
sort of direct them or engage them with social service providers,
so there are other ways to address their housing challenges.
But some people just leave, and you know, when they're
in that sort of situation, we don't expect them to
come around the corner and ask for emergency housing option either,
(08:31):
because they've contributed to their situation.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So there'd be in that category.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
They are in that category, but for the most part,
carry more than sixty percent nearly two thirds of people
that apply for emergency housing are given emergency housing support.
Of the rest, most of them are given some sort
of support, whether or not that's a hardship assistance grant
or accommodation supplement or other housing support. So the vast majority,
(08:56):
I'm talking eighty to ninety percent of people who apply
for emergency housing either end up in emergency housing or
get some sort of government support.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Okay, Now, the other thing that they were talking about
whether and I heard a social housing advocate and commentator
talking to Mike yesterday saying that teenagers who wanted to
set up their own homes were just were given emergency
housing and given housing grants, and he knew of a
(09:25):
number of teenagers who at the first sign of trouble
would just say, well, stuff you, I'm out and the
government can look after me, and a number of them
were being declined and given the sort of support they
needed to get back in with their family or fano.
And you don't want the government and a benefit to
be the first port call for a grumpy sixteen year old.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
No, and the government generally should not be your father
or mother, you know, and all your grandparents. You know,
it's really important for us to ensure that we align
with our values of having strong families and strong communities.
Hence why I was so supportive of community housing providers.
But parents and far no taken responsibility for their young people.
(10:08):
Now there are situations where there is a massive disconnect
or break down in the relationships. We do have some
supported youth transitional housing around the country, it's not you know,
thousands and thousands of places, and maybe we can look
at doing some more in that space, but you know,
I'm really triggered where there are young kids or young mums,
(10:30):
pregnant mums who end up in emergency house and that's
no place for them to be. No, and you know
it's important for us, and certainly my officials have been
directed if they find out there are young mums or
young pregnant mums and emergency, we've got to get moving
and find some options for them rather than in motels.
You know, I had the chance to meet one young
lady who'd had four kids before, she was twenty in
(10:52):
total and living in an emergency hotel for four or
five years. She'd been prioritized through our decision around Priority one,
given priority to move out of emergency and into a
social house. She was so happy to be in that house.
But the most important thing is she had some aunties
farner order providers that were supporting her down there in
(11:12):
total on her to make sure she understood what it
took to look after a house, to look after your kids,
when you're looking after a house rather than in a motel.
Those sorts of situations, in my view, really demonstrate the
power not only having the right place in the right house,
but also the right support for people in need.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
So are you happy with the progress you've made in
the portfolio. It's a tricky one and you know the
last National government came unstuck on housing. Remember when them
that I were opening to take in the homeless and
the rough sleeping and that's pretty much you know, it
was a big election issue and pretty much caused the
(11:52):
last National government to come out undone. So are you
happy with the progress you have made?
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Well?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I think the housing ecosystem isn't really well set up
to provide and facilitate affordable housing for the masses carry
and that's why we've been so determined around resetting the ecosystem.
The second thing is that you know, we've got some
challenges that we're really proud of what we're done to
get kids in particular out of that moral disaster that
(12:19):
was large scale emergency housing. But we have some other
issues that we're seeing as well. We've got some midterm
support for Chips Marty Housing Kying order to continue their
build program, and we're looking at short term options right
now because we know that there are some challenges, particularly
in some places like Auckland, Lington, kroshetch Hamilton even but
(12:40):
you know we're working on that and as I said before,
just stand by because we hope to come back from
the MAHI that we asked m Hudd the Ministry House
and Urban Development to undertake about three or four weeks ago,
and we're going to come back to you on that soon.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Well, you are very welcome on the show at any time,
especially when you've got an announcement to make.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
Thank you, Karen.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
I really appreciate the chances to have accord at all
about what's going on. And look, we think people like
the Salvation others do an amazing job getting out in
supporting people, and we want to make sure that the
system is working properly. And look at transitional housing, the
vacancy rates about ten percent at any one time. If
we could squeeze that vacancy rate down a little bit,
I think we have a little bit more space for
(13:24):
people to actually be supported when they need that transition
or when they need that short term support to get
them back up on their feet and walk in and
running again. The money that we've undertaken, we need to
work really hard to make sure we don't have that
type of situation that we've seen in the past in
(13:46):
places like Hamilton where I am, and people like the
people's project and others are part of that more comprehensive solution.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
It's not just government, it's community.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
It's fino Ewe Marti providers, government or working together really efficiently.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yoda that is Tama Putuka, Associate Housing Minister.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
For more from Kerrywood and Mornings, listen live to News
Talks at B from nine am weekdays, or follow the
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