Tim O'Connor: Auckland Grammar Headmaster on whether a "hybrid learning" model would work for students

A Christchurch school hopes to address falling attendance rates by allowing some students to work from home two days a week. 

The trial will be run by Hagley College, who will be offering 20 students the opportunity to do “hybrid learning”. 

Students will attend 16 hours of the core subjects —maths, science, and English— a week, with three days of in-person learning, and two days of online learning. 

Tim O’Connor, Headmaster at Auckland Grammar, told Kerre Woodham that Hagley is entitled to make whatever decisions they see fit for their school community, but from his point of view, they need students attending school on a daily basis. 

He said there’s much to be learned from being in a physical classroom, such as socialisation skills, routines and scheduling, and the Socratic style of learning that occurs within a classroom environment.   

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood of Mornings podcast from News
Talks b.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
As we have been discussing One christ Church school hopes
to address falling attendance rates by allowing some students to
learn from home two days a week. Hagley College will
offer twenty NCAA Level two students the chance to do
hybrid learning part time in the classroom and online. Haglely
representative Nathan Walsh said the hybrid learning trial was for

(00:34):
students who had struggled attending full time face to face
learning due to mental or physical health or extra curricular activities.
He said, we've tried different initiatives to get students to
attend our traditional five day face to face model otherwise
not as school, but we questioned if there was a
model of learning that better met the needs of a

(00:55):
specific group of students. Tim O'Connor, Auckland Grammar Headmaster joins
me now and a very good morning to you, Tim,
wanting you are there some students in most schools who
would benefit from this sort of hybrid learning? Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:10):
Quite possibly, there may be one or two who it
may be a good intermediary step to get them back
to learning in a normal school. Environment.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Would it be sufficient numbers to warrant introducing this sort
of hybrid learning or do children young people just need
more encouragement to get back into the classroom.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
Oh my view, I mean Hagley obviously entitled to make
whatever decisions they see fit for their school community. But
from my point of view, we actually need students attending
school on a daily basis. We need a list of
attendance right across the country. And there's so much learned
from being present on a daily basis and having face

(02:00):
to face contact with teachers.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Because a number of people of parents have wrung me
over the past few months and have said, look, I
just cannot get my teenagers, the big boys, to school.
I can't drag them there, I can't bribe them there.
After COVID, they said, look, I can learn what I
need to learn in three hours. I can do the
course work and they will do it and then they
have all the spare time. What else does being in

(02:26):
the classroom in front of a teacher offer them?

Speaker 3 (02:29):
Oh? Well, firstly, the basic having to follow the routines
of a day like you would have to do in
a work environment, being in the right place at the
right time, the socialization skills from interacting with your peers daily,
not only in a classroom environment, but outside a classroom environment.

(02:52):
I don't think you can replace the face to face
contact that comes between or that happens between a teacher
and a student, and the interactions, the amount of teaching
that takes place through one student's questioning that other students
actually benefit from. They should never be underestimated that.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Kind of discussion and that almost socratic form of learning.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah, oh absolutely, Yeah, But hey, look, we need to
be teaching this generation some anti fragility. I'm over resilience.
I don't think I think resilience is now a cliche,
and I think we actually need to be teaching them
to be less fragile, because it does seem to me
that the society we're living in is too readily accepting,

(03:41):
you know, every well being measured possible. And actually, why
don't we just go back to the basics with them
and say, hey, no, you need to be present, you
need to be doing these things. These things aren't up
for negotiation. You just need to be at the right
place at the right time. You need to attend school
five days a week.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Which is music to my old school ears. But what
happens when you have a child who says, but I'm anxious,
I'm worried. I hate going to provide them.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
Well, well, are they going to live in their bedroom
for the rest of their lives?

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Well, I think some of them do. When they're enabled
by their parents. They live there with that goat smell
and their gaming computer and there they stay.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Well, then we've got a sad future for our country.
We'll need more people to be contributing members of our society.
And if we're not going to teach them while they
are teenagers about how they can do that and actually
what the reward is, the personal reward that comes from
being a contributing member of society, not someone locked in
their room who is feeling anxious. We actually need to

(04:43):
teach them how to actually cope with those feelings so
that they can err back into mainstream society, because otherwise,
what is mainstream society going to be? People in their
bedrooms communicating in a hybrid manner.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
This is exactly what a lot of principles feared after
the schools were locked down, and especially the extended lockdowns
in Auckland, that young people would get out of the
habit of going to school. I mean, there were lots
of concerns, like children who were in an unsafe place
at home, but just the mainstream kids from good and
inverted commerce families would just get out of the habit
of going to school and interacting with others. Is this

(05:22):
kind of I suppose toughness learned by doing just that,
getting up when you don't feel like it, going to
school when you don't feel like it.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
Oh, absolutely, we all have to do that. We'd all
love to have Mondays off, wouldn't we all Fridays off
and have four day weekends every weekend? But you know
that's not the reality. And so we actually have to
teach them the skills and the habits that when the
going gets tough you actually do have the tools and

(05:53):
you do have the attributes to cope, and that you
know when you get through those tougher times that you
can actually the reward that comes with the good times
is so far beyond anything else, like the good feeling
that comes from winning. You know, a close sports fixture,
we don't just we shouldn't just give up because we

(06:14):
lost and we don't like that feeling. We actually come
back so we can actually get that feeling of winning.
And if we can translate that into just you know,
daily life, then actually the highs outweigh the lows and
you actually become a better person because you can manage
those those feelings.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Are you an outlier at principal conferences.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
My colleagues are listening? Would say, yes, but that's look.
I think that one of the beauties of New Zealand's schooling,
state schooling anyway, is that we have we still have
locally governed schools, so we can actually serve our community
in the manner that we see is best. And from
from our perspective, we're serving the grammar community. And yet look,

(07:04):
there are boys who struggle. We've got four full time counselors.
We're not saying, yeah, there's the one model for all.
There's boys who there's boys, and there's students who need
significant help. But we need them back in front of
us because we can assess where they are at by
the look on their face, the grimace, interactions that are happening.
We can actually provide them more support.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
Absolutely, And I would have to say, being a longtime
proponent of Celia Lashley's School of Thought and Teachings, sometimes
mothers aren't the best people to be around teenage boys.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah. Well, I don't know that i'd want to comment
of it on national radio or.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
No, but you know what I mean, they over love there,
they're they're overconcerned and overloving and overprotective when sometimes young
men need to man up.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, look, I think everyone does. I think sometimes, as
you know, both as a parent as and as as
a teacher, there's times as a parent where you know,
all you want to do is to care for and
caress and protect your child, because that is a really
natural thing to do. But there are sometimes actually the
best thing you can do for caring for them is

(08:15):
to is to be teaching them independents so that they
can actually make their way in the world. And if
we're not going to do that, and we're not going
to allow schools to do that, but then actually we're
not going to have an educated population.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
We could have you on for three hours talking. Everybody
loves what you're saying, as do I and I really
appreciate your time. I know you're busy, and thank you
for taking time out of your day to talk to me.
To my Conor Auckland Grammar headmaster who is telling it
like it is, and dear God, if only they were
more like them.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
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