Speaker Gerry Brownlee says he won't accept accusations MPs are spineless, with Chlöe Swarbrick kicked out of Parliament for a second day.
The Green Party co-leader again refused to apologise for asking Government MPs to 'show a spine' on Gaza and sanctioning Israel.
After a majority of MPs voted to again send her out - and 'name' her - Swarbrick shouted 'Free Palestine' as she left the chamber.
Newstalk ZB Barry Soper joined the Afternoons team to recap today's events.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk st B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
So, as we mentioned before, it all kicked off in
parliament are again Chloe Swarbrick ordered to leave the House
again as parliament met. Joining us now is senior political
correspondent Barry Soap get a Barry.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Gooda how a Ladd's very good, Thanks Barry. So let's
go back to the start of this yesterday. What was
Chloe Swarbrick's crime.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Well, essentially calling the National Party and its coalition cobbers spineless.
And you're not allowed under parliamentary rules to say that
MP's lack courage. Now a lot of us might think that,
but you're not meant to say it. So there's sort
of a parliamentary system that says you've got to keep
it a bit above board. Although there's been so many
(00:58):
offenses in the past, like John Key once called or
accused Labor of supporting rapists and I can't remember what
the murderer, and nobody raising the objection. The National Party
applauded him, and nobody raising any objection. But he came
back subsequently and apologized. But so things happen and DEBI rah,
(01:20):
we were packer. You'd love to hear just a few
minutes ago used the sea word again, didn't she?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (01:28):
And don't forget no Brook van Velden wasn't thrown out
for using that and Jerry his Jerry Brownlee talking about
standards and the standards in Parliament in recent years have
gone through the floor, could you not. I mean you've
got people wearing and there's nothing wrong with this attire,
wearing sneakers and jeans, t shirts, hats, no ties. I
(01:53):
mean there was a time that Parliament, because it's based
on the Westminster system, had a level of standard, but
it's got no standards now. And if you wear Jerry
where Jerry Brownlee is, it's a really difficult house to control.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yes, but do you think Jerry Browny was right to
kick her out yesterday or do you think he overreacted?
And secondary question has he lost control of Parliment?
Speaker 4 (02:18):
I think you know, in the first instance, I thought
the offense didn't didn't warrant being thrown out of the
house because you know, to call somebody spineless, so what
a lot of people probably call me day many times. Yeah,
So I thought the offense wasn't that bad, but to
add insult to injury throwing her up for a week,
(02:39):
but it gave her all the publicity that Chloe s
brought Swarbrick and Milk from this. She had a question
on the order paper today. I think it was question
for so it was written down. She was meant to
ask it and I thought when I saw it, oh, hullo,
she's going to come back in and apologize. That's what
you could be led to believe the fact that she
(03:00):
had a question there or she won't get to ask
it now because she's been hiffed down, and rightly so
she said. She refused to withdraw and apologize. She was named,
which is a pretty serious offense in parliament. So she's
up for the rest of the week.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Interestingly, though, Winston Peters, although New Zealand first did vote
for her to be named, his has said that he
thought it.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Must have been listening to me last night actually because
I thought the crime didn't warrant the penalty. And essentially
that's what Winston said when he got up today and
it was quite courageous for him to do so. And
of course he's the grandfather of the house, nobody's been
there longer than him, so he felt that, look he
had some currency. He got up. He looked at the
(03:47):
speaker in the eye and said, I just think it
was an over the top sentence essentially, and I think
it was too Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
So what happens now for Chloe?
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Well, she'll be back next week, so she's been given
a week off. I wouldn't mind being given a week off.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Lead is that without pay? She still paid?
Speaker 4 (04:06):
I'm not sure whether the name there will be a pursuit.
I would imagine if you are named, they may docupay,
so she may find herself. I haven't checked that, but
you know, being named is a pretty serious offense. And
if she then refused to leave, what happens then? Is
the sergeant at arm yes, which is normally an old
geezer on a zimmer frame, wheels it into the house
(04:29):
and as meant to clutch the member and take her
out of the house.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
What is that what she would like to see happen?
Do you think this is grand standing from her or
a legitimate protest?
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Totally grand standing? I mean, you know, she had a
passionate view on what's going on in Gaza and what
The argument was all about she had a bill that
was rejected in Parliament that was to impose sanctions on Israel,
and she said, would the government support this if they
had you know, the courage or the spine, they would
(05:01):
support this. Coming back into the House and that's where
where she got into trouble. So she was extrapolating further
on what the debate was all about yesterday.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
So when she comes back to Parliament, is Jerry going
to ask her to apologize again? Or is that done?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
It's done, done and dusted.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Is this the is this the most difficult time? You know,
it seems like for Jerry Brownlee he's had a bit
of a rough time as a speaker, or you know,
in your in your history, is this typical of peaks
and troughs, of maultuous parliaments.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
And tros in parliament? But you know, I think Jerry,
I think he's really finding it really difficult. Seems to
be because you know, if it was me in the
speaker's cheer, I'd be setting up throwing people out, will he?
But Jerry, Jerry is very generous and says I have
another go at asking the question and no room packing
(05:49):
from the Maldi party today. I mean she's stood up
yesterday and she she made points of order, so she
clearly doesn't understand the system in parliament. They were nothing
like points of order. They've got to be you know,
there's a form to do it in and you can't
get up and protest the way she does. So look,
I think's got the toughest job in that place at
(06:10):
the moment because it's so unruly, and to bring them back,
I think the Business Committee at Parliament should be meeting
and they should be reintroducing some standards to make it
the House of Representatives of New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Do you think this is just the new era, the
social media area, the TikTok era, where Parliament is an
opportunity to get some content to shove out on to
your followers, to rustle up some interest for your minor party.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
That's exactly what Chloe Swarburg will be doing now. And
the thing is that she's refused to apologize in the past,
so it's not new for her. It's a grandstanding exercise
by her, although in fairness to her, I don't think
she would have expected to have been thrown out in
the first place.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, Perry fascinating times. Is always nice to catch up.
We'll see again soon. That is our senior political correspondent,
Barry Soper.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk st B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
So, as we mentioned before, it all kicked off in
parliament are again Chloe Swarbrick ordered to leave the House
again as parliament met. Joining us now is senior political
correspondent Barry Soap get a Barry.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Gooda how a Ladd's very good, Thanks Barry. So let's
go back to the start of this yesterday. What was
Chloe Swarbrick's crime.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Well, essentially calling the National Party and its coalition cobbers spineless.
And you're not allowed under parliamentary rules to say that
MP's lack courage. Now a lot of us might think that,
but you're not meant to say it. So there's sort
of a parliamentary system that says you've got to keep
it a bit above board. Although there's been so many
(00:58):
offenses in the past, like John Key once called or
accused Labor of supporting rapists and I can't remember what
the murderer, and nobody raising the objection. The National Party
applauded him, and nobody raising any objection. But he came
back subsequently and apologized. But so things happen and DEBI rah,
(01:20):
we were packer. You'd love to hear just a few
minutes ago used the sea word again, didn't she?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (01:28):
And don't forget no Brook van Velden wasn't thrown out
for using that and Jerry his Jerry Brownlee talking about
standards and the standards in Parliament in recent years have
gone through the floor, could you not. I mean you've
got people wearing and there's nothing wrong with this attire,
wearing sneakers and jeans, t shirts, hats, no ties. I
(01:53):
mean there was a time that Parliament, because it's based
on the Westminster system, had a level of standard, but
it's got no standards now. And if you wear Jerry
where Jerry Brownlee is, it's a really difficult house to control.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yes, but do you think Jerry Browny was right to
kick her out yesterday or do you think he overreacted?
And secondary question has he lost control of Parliment?
Speaker 4 (02:18):
I think you know, in the first instance, I thought
the offense didn't didn't warrant being thrown out of the
house because you know, to call somebody spineless, so what
a lot of people probably call me day many times. Yeah,
So I thought the offense wasn't that bad, but to
add insult to injury throwing her up for a week,
(02:39):
but it gave her all the publicity that Chloe s
brought Swarbrick and Milk from this. She had a question
on the order paper today. I think it was question
for so it was written down. She was meant to
ask it and I thought when I saw it, oh, hullo,
she's going to come back in and apologize. That's what
you could be led to believe the fact that she
(03:00):
had a question there or she won't get to ask
it now because she's been hiffed down, and rightly so
she said. She refused to withdraw and apologize. She was named,
which is a pretty serious offense in parliament. So she's
up for the rest of the week.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Interestingly, though, Winston Peters, although New Zealand first did vote
for her to be named, his has said that he
thought it.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Must have been listening to me last night actually because
I thought the crime didn't warrant the penalty. And essentially
that's what Winston said when he got up today and
it was quite courageous for him to do so. And
of course he's the grandfather of the house, nobody's been
there longer than him, so he felt that, look he
had some currency. He got up. He looked at the
(03:47):
speaker in the eye and said, I just think it
was an over the top sentence essentially, and I think
it was too Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
So what happens now for Chloe?
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Well, she'll be back next week, so she's been given
a week off. I wouldn't mind being given a week off.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Lead is that without pay? She still paid?
Speaker 4 (04:06):
I'm not sure whether the name there will be a pursuit.
I would imagine if you are named, they may docupay,
so she may find herself. I haven't checked that, but
you know, being named is a pretty serious offense. And
if she then refused to leave, what happens then? Is
the sergeant at arm yes, which is normally an old
geezer on a zimmer frame, wheels it into the house
(04:29):
and as meant to clutch the member and take her
out of the house.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
What is that what she would like to see happen?
Do you think this is grand standing from her or
a legitimate protest?
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Totally grand standing? I mean, you know, she had a
passionate view on what's going on in Gaza and what
The argument was all about she had a bill that
was rejected in Parliament that was to impose sanctions on Israel,
and she said, would the government support this if they
had you know, the courage or the spine, they would
(05:01):
support this. Coming back into the House and that's where
where she got into trouble. So she was extrapolating further
on what the debate was all about yesterday.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
So when she comes back to Parliament, is Jerry going
to ask her to apologize again? Or is that done?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
It's done, done and dusted.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Is this the is this the most difficult time? You know,
it seems like for Jerry Brownlee he's had a bit
of a rough time as a speaker, or you know,
in your in your history, is this typical of peaks
and troughs, of maultuous parliaments.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
And tros in parliament? But you know, I think Jerry,
I think he's really finding it really difficult. Seems to
be because you know, if it was me in the
speaker's cheer, I'd be setting up throwing people out, will he?
But Jerry, Jerry is very generous and says I have
another go at asking the question and no room packing
(05:49):
from the Maldi party today. I mean she's stood up
yesterday and she she made points of order, so she
clearly doesn't understand the system in parliament. They were nothing
like points of order. They've got to be you know,
there's a form to do it in and you can't
get up and protest the way she does. So look,
I think's got the toughest job in that place at
(06:10):
the moment because it's so unruly, and to bring them back,
I think the Business Committee at Parliament should be meeting
and they should be reintroducing some standards to make it
the House of Representatives of New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Do you think this is just the new era, the
social media area, the TikTok era, where Parliament is an
opportunity to get some content to shove out on to
your followers, to rustle up some interest for your minor party.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
That's exactly what Chloe Swarburg will be doing now. And
the thing is that she's refused to apologize in the past,
so it's not new for her. It's a grandstanding exercise
by her, although in fairness to her, I don't think
she would have expected to have been thrown out in
the first place.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, Perry fascinating times. Is always nice to catch up.
We'll see again soon. That is our senior political correspondent,
Barry Soper.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
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