Dr Joshua Roose: Deakin University associate professor on the deadly terror attack on Bondi beach

A 10-year-old girl, a rabbi and a Holocaust survivor are among the dead following a terror attack targeting a Jewish gathering in Australia's Bondi.

Last night, two gunmen opened fire on a crowd of about 1,000 people celebrating the first day of Hanukkah.

Fifteen victims were killed and more than 40 people are in hospital. 

Deakin University associate professor Dr Joshua Roose says anti-Semitism has been on the rise following the October 7 attacks and a bipartisan solution is needed.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
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Speaker 2 (00:16):
Joining us now as Josh Rues. He's an extremism expert
and associate professor from politics at Deacon University. Who's on
the line right now, Doctor Rue is very good afternoon
to you go, Affternoon.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
There's always been extremism, Is there more now? And if so,
what is causing it?

Speaker 4 (00:35):
Yeah, in particular post COVID, we've seen a significant escalation
in both societal polarization meaning you know, binary thinking. Everyone
frames the world in good and evil, but also in extremism,
and in particular in anti semitism. Post October seven, it
is absolutely rocket off the chart to here in Australia.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Right, And how do you combat that?

Speaker 4 (00:58):
Well, it requires really powerful political leadership and bipartisan approaches.
So we've got to work across political lines, not seek
the point score, but absolutely stand down on anti semitism
online and address the permissive environment that's allowed it to flourish. Unfortunately,

(01:18):
in the last couple of years in particular, there's been
a lot of permissiveness to this. It's been allowed to
flourish online and in our.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Public discourse now, Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi he seid,
there is no place for this hate violence terrorism in
our nation. Let me be clear. We will eradicate it.
Is it possible to eradicate this.

Speaker 4 (01:40):
There's certainly steps that can be taken to hold people
to account, both spreading hatred online and in public, but
also in shutting down those platforms, for example, that allowed
to flourish as well. We've seen this play out in
a number of ways. We've seen it and the Jewish
community in Australia in particular are really being squeezed between

(02:02):
on the one hand, and arts who care for their
eradication and protesting in the streets carrying antithetic placards, and
on the other the online environment that's really flourished with
more the hard left and the illness extremists where they
conflate Judaism with Zionism, I'm sorry, Zionism and anti Semitism

(02:27):
and basically say well, we're not anti Semitic, we're just antisionists.
And that's really also created a space where people can
say and do what they want and get away with it.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
We are speaking to doctor Josh Roos's Associate Professor of
Politics at Deacon University. Professor, does this incident suggest there's
may be some gaps in current threat assessment models at
governments and police and other security officials use.

Speaker 4 (02:52):
It's certainly incredibly difficult to unpack, particularly with it with
its two individuals who were related, who had access to
firearmed and who may not have had a strong online signature.
The problem is again that it's the ecosystem in which
they're embedded online and engaging. We know that the Jewish

(03:15):
community has been telling us about the potential for a
deadly attack for several years, and quite frankly, we haven't listened.
The Anti Sevenism on Boys report has been sitting in
a draw for the best part of four or five months,
and there's been a strong reluctance to engage with Jewish
leaders about the dimensions of the threat. Where it has

(03:37):
been effective is targeting the Iranian ambassador due to Iranian
sponsorship of terrorism in Australia, but also targeting the extreme right.
They're much more reluctant to have a conversation about Islamistic
extremism in particular, and it's intersections with far left extremism.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
So I mean, is this a funding issue or a
culture issue. Is there an amount of money and resources
that you could spin to identify these people and protect
the Jewish community or is this just going to grow
online if you see what I'm saying. Is there an
amount of money and resources that the government could throw

(04:15):
at this and solve it.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
No amount of resources are ever going to solve the
problem of extremism and terrorism. This is ideologically driven, and
so someone who wants to carry out an attack will
at the very least put themselves in a position where
they could. However, as a case in point for security,
what we saw was an event on a crowded beach

(04:40):
on a Sunday afternoon where that attack appears to have
been carried out for at least five to ten minutes
based on the video circulating online that I've seen, And
whilst the police certainly put themselves in harm's way and
did the best they could, questions must be raised about
the resources that are available to the very least protect

(05:01):
the community in the instance of a public event.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
On an individual level, we've got a text to hear
that says, could you please ask what to do if
you know someone who is anti Semitic and very loud
about it online. Is this something that members of the
public can do when they spot this kind of rhetoric.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
It's really challenging because people who are avoudly and very
openly anti Semitic have a much deeper set of beliefs
in which that's embedded, and it's usually about some sort
of conspiratorial framing of the government, this idea of Jewish
people behind the scenes pulling strings and making things happen
and are perceived in justice as they see it in Gaza,

(05:43):
and so to that extent, it ties into a deeper
set of beliefs. Now, you can't tell someone who has
strong beliefs that they're wrong head on, because all the
research indicates that if you tell someone they're wrong and
they're just going to dig in further, You've actually got
to allow them to say their piece, but provide alternative approaches,
provide alternative viewpoints, and start to get them to question

(06:04):
those beliefs over time. It's a process that takes a
significant amount of time, but it's worked that's got to
be done because this is a problem that's not going
to go away overnight.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Absolutely, Doctor Rose, really appreciate your time this afternoon. I
know you're very busy, so really appreciate you coming on
the program.

Speaker 4 (06:21):
No problem, thank you.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
That is doctor Josh Russ, Associate Professor of Politics at
Deacon University in Australia.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
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