Full Show Podcast: 15 April 2025

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sed B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello are you great New Zealands and welcome to Matt
and Tyler Podcast Full Show Podcast number one nine for Tuesday,
the fifteenth of April.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Tyler, it was a great show.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Loved the sex ed chat got pretty spicy, We took
it to the farm, great greenwashing examples coming through thick
and fast on the show. And also a fantastic chat
early on about.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
Recognition. Oh yeah, facial That was a really good chat.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
It was so we did all the topics we said
we were going to do today for the first time
a long time. We still haven't done botox, but we'll
get there one day.

Speaker 4 (00:54):
And there was a deep dive about whether bulls can
jump and how high can they jump? All part of
the sex education chat. Thin give too much away, but
that can enlightening.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Can a bull jump a cow? Find out later in
the show. Set to down the subscribe, et cetera. Good
on you all right, lovely soya.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends, and
everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons News
Talk said.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
Me, Well, good afternoon to you. Welcome into the show.
Tuesday seven, pass one. It is a short week. Hope
you're feeling good. Short week for most people, not all,
but I'm feeling good.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
Kiday Matt Berg brother is watching you.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, facial recognition technology is coming to a supermarket and
a hardware store near you.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
Very very scary. We're going to get into that now.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
Actually a quick preview for the rest of the show
after three o'clock. This is the owner of Glad. You
would know that the Glad products are glad rap. For example,
it's been ordered to pay eight point two five million
dollars for fossil misleading statements. It's said on some of
its products that it contained fifty percent recycled ocean plastic.
Turns out that's a so called ocean plastic, had never

(02:12):
seen the ocean, It was miles away from any sort
of water body. It was Indonesian plastic. And they have
been fine for those misleading statements. But we're going to
take it a bit wider than them.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah, our green washing companies the absolute worst of us.
How evil are companies that they profit off climate guilt
and they pretend to being virtual to be virtuous, but
they're actually lying. So people that care about that kind
of thing, they get this product because they think that
they're clearing the plastic out of the ocean. They're actually
not doing that. Yeah, it's really evil. So we want

(02:47):
to look into the most egregious green green washing that
you see out there. It's absolutely everywhere green washing. And
as I said before to you, Tyler, it annoys me
when on a plane and they serve you food worth
a bamboo knife and fork, as if that covers up
the amount of aviation fuel that's been blasted. You accept

(03:11):
when you're on a plane. You can't just pretend it's like, hey.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
Don't look, don't look, don't look out the back here. Yep,
look at this. We've got some cardboard and we've got
some bamboo nives and forks. It's all absolutely above board. Yeah,
that's very sustainable.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
It's going to be a great chat. After three o'clock.
After two o'clock you would have seen this. The government
had started consultation on a new draft curriculum for Relationships
and Sexuality Education called aris E. But we want to
have a chatch you about how you discuss the birds
and the bees with your kids.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, that's right, because you'd be a pretty plex, pretty
slack parent if you just left sexy it up to
the schools. So when and how did you approach it
with your kids? When should you? How did you do it?
Or maybe you didn't at all, and you just think
that's up to the government to educate your kids in
these areas.

Speaker 4 (03:58):
Yep, that is after to o'clock it right now, as
you said, map amn pig.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
Brother, Yeah, eight hundred and eighty ten eight. How do
you feel about it?

Speaker 4 (04:06):
Yeah, So the government has has started to or the
Justice Minister he is considering the ramifications of allowing businesses
to use facial recognition technology. He says he wants to
be as enabling as he can be. But as we know,
there was a trial of facial recognition technology done by

(04:27):
twenty five New World and pack and Safe stores in
the North Island recently. So they say it helped prevent
one hundred serious events, but it also misidentified nine people.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, and they say going before going forward that it
would identify but then a human would look at it
and make sure before.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
They went and checked it.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
And you can see why they want to do it
retail sorry, real retail crime has estimated to cost about
two point six billion a year in New Zealand. So
and they don't have many powers to deal with shoplifting
because taking people to court is too hard. And so
you get a situation where someone's robbed you ten times,

(05:08):
a facial recognition technology can just go hey, that person's
in here, so you can go up to them and
say get out because you keep stealing from us.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
That seems fair enough.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
And you've got a feel for businesses that are just
getting robbed all the time, but also from the other side,
because this is a gray and juicy topic, there's strong
pushback from the New Zealand Council of Civil Liberty Civil Libertys,
which says such sensitive information should not be collected without consent.
It fears a slippery.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
Slope of powerful surveillance database systems with a history of
people's whereabouts that police can access without a warrant in
a similar way to how police use number plate recognition systems.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Right now, so you go into a store, maybe you
expect to be you know, that's fine, I don't shoplift
scan my face. Yeah, And that's when you've got a
friendly government like we do now. That isn't going to
use it against you. But what happens when down that
you've got to think about down the path, who knows
going to be in power in ten or fifteen years,

(06:08):
and they suddenly start pinging you.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
For who you're hanging out with.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, they access the data that's been taken in stores
and they go, hey, look, you were hanging out with
this person, this person is affiliated with this other person.
And now next thing you know, you get to knock
on your door from the year from the coppers.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
And you've nailed it. Because I've got no problem with businesses,
any businesses using facial recognition software. But what I would
tend to worry about if businesses start using a carte
blanche is the storing of that information. I don't know
if I can trust a supermarket to store that information.
And people will be listening and saying, what have you
got to worry about, Tyler? If you're not committing a crime,

(06:45):
what is there to worry about? But I don't like
the fact that that information is held by an organization
like New Order pack and say, but will worst, why
do they get there of that?

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, well, if you go into their store, then you
go into their store. So does it need to be
heavily signposted? You are entering into a facial recognition area. Yeah,
So if you're hanging out with someone that's going to
be flut future governmental agitator, you walk down a different
aisle from them.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
But you know, I mean part of me. Look, I'm
gonna be honest with you.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
I don't care about it, but I can see the argument.
I just don't care. Yeah, because I don't shoplift, so
I don't care. But I can see the philosophical argument
the other other way on it. But what are people
supposed to do? Stop stop shoplifting?

Speaker 4 (07:31):
If there were two supermarkets, so one was using the
facial recognition technology and the other one wasn't, would you
tend to go towards the one that wasn't. So, by
all accounts, everything is the same, The groceries cost the same,
same sort of vibe and atmosphere in there. Would that
be right? I'm just going to go to the one
without facial technology.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
Am I a shoplifted? No?

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Because if I was a shoplifter, I'd go to the
one without facialift recognition.

Speaker 4 (07:55):
That would be smart as someone who shoplifts. But so
you wouldn't care.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
No, and this text to here on nine two ninety
two doesn't care either. Facial recognition software and supermarkets.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
Who cares.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
You have social media sites like Facebook and everyone already
knows everything about you, so it's no big deal.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
Craig.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, I think it's really interesting that for the longest
time people talked about their privacy and then just at
the drop of the hat, put absolutely all of it online.
So laid everything out on Instagram and Facebook. Just there
you go, there's all my information nowhere, as it's get
on with it. I also think it's funny with people's
privacy because people do know that they used to put

(08:32):
out a book that used to list your name, address,
and phone number and used to drop it off at
everyone's door.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
So we haven't had a lot of privacy in the past.

Speaker 4 (08:41):
But if you're someone who's locked down your social media,
Facebook maybe tried to clear it up.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
That's a fair point right there. Yes, we all.

Speaker 4 (08:47):
I think a lot of us made mistakes on what
we were actually posting on social media. But I would
hope most people, you know, you wouldn't put your kids
on Facebook, for example, because now you know that that
is information that is going to go all you know,
that's going to be exposed everywhere on the internet. It
never dies, so you're a bit more careful. And when
it comes to this facial recognition technology, having that information

(09:07):
in the hand of New world I can't trust New Worlds.
I mean, it's a fine supermarket and it's a fine organization,
but why do they get there have that information?

Speaker 2 (09:14):
Well, because you went into their store, so you don't
have to go in there. You can go shop somewhere else. Yeah,
you didn't have to go in there. I guess the
question comes of all supermarkets doing it. You don't have
an option, but yeah, no, it's it's it's it's a
gray area. But can I just say I don't care?
And maybe I should, so I'd love to have someone
convince me why.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
I should care. On eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.

Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yep, it is fifteen quarter past one. Back very shortly.
You're listening to Matt and Tyler Good Afternoon, the.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Big stories, the big issues, the big trends, and everything
in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons, used talks.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
It'd be good afternoon.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
It is seventeen past one and we're talking about facial
recognition technology. The Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is looking into
it as we speak. There was a trial done and
twenty five supermarkets recently, but he is looking on whether
that technology should be able to be rolled out to
more businesses in.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
New Zealand's Yeah, here's a text on nine to nine two.
Grow up, Matt, this is New Zealand. What evil government
do we need to hide from? We're the least corrupt
country in the world. It's hysterical and unhelpful to suggest
that police would ever use the data against citizens. Well,
I don't know because you you may say that now,
but the world's an ever changing place. You don't know

(10:26):
what's going to happen. You don't know who's going to
be in charge. There's certainly elements of our government right
now that are very sure that they're one hundred percent
right about something, and the people that disagree with them
are apostates that need to be punished.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
So you don't know, you.

Speaker 4 (10:43):
And once I've got that information, they've got it for
a long long time, whatever government may be in power. Oh,
eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call. Lads,
do you trust the tech companies that have your pictures
when you unlock your phone with your face.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
I do it, really yeah, but maybe I shouldn't now
you mention it.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
I never thought about that, but I mean, that's and
that's what the people that supporters of facial recognition technology
are saying. If they scan you and you're not on
their people that have stolen from the store before, they
immediately delete that skin, so they say they're not keeping that.
So you know, if you regulate that that's what the
rules are, then as long as you haven't shoplifted, they

(11:21):
don't recognize you. And one thing that we've got to
remember is we all have facial recognition technology in our brains.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yep, very true. Right now, better than others. Right now.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
I know that you're Tyler because I work with you
every day and I'm walking around facially recognizing people and
storing it in in my system right.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
Now, So yours works pretty good. Yeah, Simon, Simon, your
thoughts on this.

Speaker 5 (11:44):
Yeah, I was in Europe and Spain in September, and
you go to a supermarket and they issue you with
your receipt once you paid for your goods, and at
the bottom of the receipt, was a QR code, and
that QR code allowed you out through a security.

Speaker 6 (12:01):
Gate at the end.

Speaker 5 (12:02):
No QR code, you couldn't get out.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (12:05):
I think what annoysing most about the shop lifting epodemic
that we have in New Zealanders that there are people
going into our supermarkets. They are loading up trolleys and
they're walking out knowing full well that nobody can touch them,
will stop them so and in the end as a consumer,
that costs us because that supermarket has to mark up

(12:26):
more in order to be able to cover those losses.
So you know, the technology is there, it doesn't have
to be paper recognition. And then that was a relatively
inexpensive solution. And we all get issue with a receipt
and that receipt simple QR code, an individual one on
the bottom of that receipt, and that is your access

(12:47):
to get out. I can't understand why our supermarkets aren't
entertaining that when it comes.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
To the facial recognition technology Simon. You know, as you
say people are pulling up trolleys and pushing them out,
the people in support of the say, well, that person
that's done that before gets pained as soon as they
go in. So you can go up to them before
you have to have the alter altercation at the trolley,
before anything happens. You just go up and say get out, mate,
because you've robbed from here before. So can you see

(13:15):
the logic and that well, so.

Speaker 5 (13:18):
It's one theory. The reality is that supermarkets are under
huge pressure to keep their costs down and the biggest
cost they have is their people, and so they minimize
a number of people. So at the moment you've got
to start putting people instore, more and more security people
to these It's it's a mess of cost and I

(13:39):
just can't understand why they can't use that simple system
of an individual QR code and then you will let.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
You because because you're not going to be able to
walk out. You know what you're saying is you're not
about it. You're going to maybe walk out with something small,
but you're not going to be able to get an
entire trolley out there without your QR code under that suit.

Speaker 7 (13:56):
Correct.

Speaker 5 (13:57):
Yeah, they had a full security gate there and you
scan your QR code and both it opens, you don't
have it, you don't get out.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, just actually seems to make a hell of a
lot of sense to me, I wonder why no one's
doing that.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
It does, absolutely, But just a part of it, Simon
that I don't like is that it treats everybody like
they could be a criminal or a thief. It's like
when and it hasn't happened for a long time, but
it's happened in the past. When a security guard looks
at me and says, can I have a look at
your bag before you leave the store? That purses me
off because I'm like, excuse me, no, you can't because I'm.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
Not a thief.

Speaker 5 (14:30):
So I a law abiding citizen. Heaven you no issue
with that at all. That means that I get my
groceries at the lowest cost price.

Speaker 8 (14:39):
Then I'm quite happy to a little there.

Speaker 5 (14:41):
It just really offends me that people wandering these places
pull up a trolley and just take off.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Does that mean that a super market like that, Simon
has only one way out?

Speaker 9 (14:52):
Though?

Speaker 2 (14:53):
So you can only leave one way? Because what's the
situation If you go into the supermarket, you have a
look around and go this place is rubbish.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
I don't want to buy anything. How do you get
out there? How do you get out under those circumstances?

Speaker 5 (15:05):
I don't know what the answer is to that, because
I didn't know I was in legitimately buying. But they'll
be away. But fundamentally, with a very simple system, very
an expensive, very year rolled out, you don't need RF
tags and every toiler or everything. It's just a very simple,

(15:26):
very workable system and I'd fully support it.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeahri, thank you so much for you call Simon. So
can anyone see any fush ficks in that system? So
that's you get a receipt that has a QR code
on it and.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
That's what opens the exit.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Well I imagine it doesn't open the door, but it
opens the path out with your trolley. And if you
don't have it, then you have to talk to someone.
And if you talk to someone and it turns up
you just filled up the trolley, then they don't open
the door.

Speaker 4 (15:52):
For you would stop shop shoplift, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
I mean it has to be reasonably robust so people
can't get up a head of steam and smash the.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

Speaker 4 (16:01):
How do you feel about facial technology in private businesses?
The Justice Minister is looking at whether it should be
rolled out two more businesses.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
It's an interesting point. Someone text to Through on nineteen nineteen.
Can we stop calling it shoplifting and call it theft stealing?

Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (16:16):
I mean that is interesting. We call it shoplifting. It's
kind of almost a euphemism. It's just you're just.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
A thief shoplifting.

Speaker 4 (16:23):
I might do a bit of research into where the
origins of the word shoplifting.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
It's confusing for kids because they think that you're actually
lifting up the shop exactly.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
It is twenty four past one, eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty is the number to call Love to hear
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Speaker 1 (17:32):
Putting the time questions to the newspeakers, the mic asking.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Breakfast, the government wants a word with you on the
new Sex Said guidelines for schools.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
The Education Minister Erica Stanford's back for this.

Speaker 10 (17:42):
We don't have all the answers. Nobody does. But what
we've had in the past is a vague curriculum that
leads it up to schools who have to go out
every two years by law and consult with their communities
about what to teach.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
And when this does take any of the anks out
of as well, I.

Speaker 10 (17:55):
Think there will still be anks, of course, but direct
that aks at me, do not direct it at your schools.
I'd rather that I take the heat on this than.

Speaker 11 (18:01):
They have to do that.

Speaker 10 (18:02):
We want to have this curriculum that tells parents exactly
what will be taught. The words that will be used
so they can make an informed choice about.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
What tis I am? The mic asking Breakfast with Baby's
Real Estate News Talk ZV.

Speaker 4 (18:16):
It's twenty eight past one. We're talking about facial recognition technology.
The Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is looking at whether that
can be rolled out to more businesses within New Zealand
after a trial at supermarkets. Keen on your thoughts, oh
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
And it's our old friend Morris. Welcome to show your
thoughts on this.

Speaker 12 (18:34):
Oh. Look, it's a waste of time. It's very easy
to beat those systems and it's not going to get
the criminals. If you're a criminal, you want to go
and steal a whole lot of stuff, what do you
put a mask on, put a for a sunglass and
put on point your face to the ground and it
doesn't work and so it's not going to stop it.
And so what happens is that you might stop one

(18:55):
or two, but you won't stop the majority. And then
what happens where do they have an art to go?
And what it is is that it was in Australia
they were taking photo recognition people walking in the street
where you're shopping, and they had this whole network in
Melbourne and then it got send off the companies and
they start advertising to you all and all of a
sudden on your Facebook page and all your digital stuff
all pops up, and they're trying to sell your stuff

(19:17):
and not a revene generating thing in the supermarkes and
then make more money out of it. And you know
people are happy with that, then let them.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
Do it well.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Retail New Zealand chief executive Karen Young says that that's
not how it works. It says, it's basically what happens
is you go into the store. You've got CCTV to
keep an eye on what's happening in the store. What
the FRT camera does is tell you who's in the
store and rot risk that person is to staff and consumers.
There's another tool to help prevent crime and violent behavior

(19:48):
in the store. And the key thing really is we
want the staff who work there in the retail area
to be safe. So you've got to support that, don't you.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
Morris.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
If that someone that's gone into the store before and
assaulted people or stolen stuff, and there's a way that
they can be loaded into the system, they turn up
ping you get them.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
I mean, and I know what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
This is that you know, you could put a you know,
a fake bed on and and whatever outfit. But I
don't think a lot of these people that are violent
and problematic, that's sophisticated. They're just wandering in and causing problems.

Speaker 12 (20:24):
Oh yeah, but and you put it into context, this
won't stop it. And if they want something, they're going
to go and get it. And then the thing is
you just said they're going to see you to stop climb.
So when the lunatic who's actually caused all the problem
is actually in the supermarket, because we've got to post
and say he's in't here, then how do they get
them to leave without a scuffle. It's not going to
protect anyone. It's just the supermarkets don't fix prices, that

(20:46):
don't screw their supplies and they don't do.

Speaker 13 (20:48):
Any of that.

Speaker 12 (20:49):
And all we're very honest. There's a woman supporting those
people who are the most dishonest people out who make
millions of police poverty. And now you say I want
to leave what they say it's sort of like voting
for the Greens.

Speaker 4 (21:04):
Yeah, you got on a roll there, Morris, but just
on the marketing side of things. That's why, that's why
it's been considered quite carefully, and that's why if they
implement this technology that it can be rolled out to
more private businesses carte blanche, that you've got to have
those rules in place and those laws in place that
if they do use it your image for some sort
of marketing gimmit, then they get stuck very heavily. There's

(21:26):
got to be massive finds for there, because I'm sure
most of us wouldn't be into that.

Speaker 12 (21:30):
No one would be. But the thing is is that
then how do you approve it? It takes time and
sometimes I've made more money than what the fines are
and reality is right. She says, it's to protect the staff,
which I'm a pro for that fair enough, but it
won't get the person before he goes in. And if
that's the case and he's already in there, how does
it protect them? Because you know, you and so do

(21:53):
we all line up and get a facial recognition then
go in and keep all the lunisics out, you know,
and you know where does it work? It's not going
to be perfect and it's not going to be thing,
and all you're going to do is put a whole
lot of people's personal data, and then what happens these
systems get hacked them all the sort of counter I.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Mean, that's that's a concern, the system being hacked if
they're storing information right now, and this kind of system
that's talking about just storing the faces of the people
that they have that they they're targeting as having offended
in the store before. So when a person comes into
the store, you can stop them and say, hey, you
know you're not meant to be in here. You you

(22:31):
know we've trespassed you, and you can leave now. And
so you're so you're going up and pointing your finger
in their face and saying get out now, rather than
later on when they've got a whole handful of stuff
and they're trying to bum rush the door.

Speaker 4 (22:43):
Yeah, which makes a lot of sense. So eight hundred
eighty ten eighty is a number to call.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
Thanks for you, Carl, though Morris appreciate your contrary opinion.

Speaker 4 (22:50):
It's fantastic headlines with railing coming up. Then we'll take
more of your phone calls on our eight hundred eighty
ten eighty. It is twenty eight to two.

Speaker 13 (23:01):
You talk said the headlines with a blue bubble taxis
it's no trouble with a blue bubble stat Scene said.
Figures show the continued pain at the supermarket, with food
price inflation reaching three point five percent. That's up from
two point four a month ago. Butter, milk, meat and
grocery have all risen annually, fruit and vege dipped slightly.

(23:24):
The Ministers of Justice and Police say the government surpassed
its violent crime reduction target. Latest figures report one hundred
and fifty seven thousand victims in the year to February,
a drop of twenty eight thousand from the twenty twenty
three baseline. The Education Minister says school property will also
get a boost in Canterbury following news one hundred million

(23:45):
dollars is going into a new school and other classrooms.
In Auckland. The government's cranking down on owners tying up
dogs for long periods are crackdowns expected to become law
by the end of the year. Heavy rain and wind
set to descend on the Upper North Island, starting in
the Far North early tomorrow and moving to Auckland, Great

(24:07):
Barrier and Corimandel early Thursday. Trump's tariffs. Three possible scenarios
facing New Zealand. Find out more at Ens and Herald Premium.
Now back to matt Ethan Tyler Adams.

Speaker 4 (24:18):
Thank you very much, Rayllan, and we're talking about facial
recognition technology. The Justice Minister is currently considering whether the
law needs to be changed to allow businesses to utilize
that technology in greater numbers. There was a trial in
twenty five New World and pack and safe stores recently
and though that organization estimated it helped prevent one hundred

(24:41):
serious events during that trial.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, but some people, such as the New Zealand Council
for Civil Liberty, says such sensitive information should not be
collected without consent. It feels like a slippery slope to
powerful surveillance data systems with the history of people's whereabouts
that police can access without a warrant in a similar
way to how police use number plate recognition systems. But
as someone says, if you go into the retailer, then

(25:05):
you're kind of consenting to it. If there was a
as you said before, Tyler, if there was two supermarkets
to rapside each other and one said we use facial
recognition technology and one didn't. If you were in a shoplifter,
would you care which one you went into. You might
prefer the one with facial technology because it is identifying
people that have been violent in the past in the store. Yeah,

(25:28):
so you know you're less likely. Other people have no
privacy concerns and wanted to go further, such as Philip.
I'd rather everyone got chipped so the shop can scan
you when you come through the door. So you just
go the full hog so you prove you're a good person. Yeah,
and you get chipped. Could would have killed nzid me
to chip me.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
I like to get chipped so I don't have to
remember my swipe past every day. So I could just
walk through my computer turns on for me.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
To get into the my Costing Memorial studio. I mean
there's a lot of doors you've got to get through.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
There's a lot of security to my Costing.

Speaker 4 (25:59):
Yeah, but you do look like when you've got that
we land yard, it's almost like you work for the
CIA or something.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
It is. It looks very official.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
I feel like I worked for the Shield the Avengers. Dennis.
Your thoughts on the facial recognition technology.

Speaker 11 (26:16):
Hey, Look, facial recognition technology has advanced considerably in the
last few years. What I want to know is how
if we give the supermarkets as power, how far we're
going to allow the creep to occur. Because at this stage,

(26:37):
facial recognition cameras can pick up a pyper, clothes you're wearing,
your nationality. They can definitely every time you walk past
a camera which has it, more information is put into
the camera about the person, so it builds it up.

(26:59):
Would you feel comfortable, for instance, to please be able
to use facial recognition photos on your license and then
take a photo of your put into a machine when
they pull you up to identify you, because we basically
have that technology with customs now when it comes to passports. Yeah,
and uh, what would you feel as for instance, a shop,

(27:23):
say Farmers or someone like that, had facial recognition technology
and they followed you around the shop. Because these cameras
can follow you around the shop. Now, this technology is
definitely available and noted the type of product you looked at,
and so when you walked in the door, they could
change the advert on the TV screen to show you

(27:46):
products that they know you have looked at before.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
It might last time, last time you were here, you
got this cheese, you've forgotten it and you're trolley that
kind of thing very minority, I mean, I mean that
is that is definitely possible. So would you would you
support would you it was definitely possible now, but would
you support restrictions on it then? So supermarkets or or
whatever stores can only recognize well only paying people who

(28:14):
have put in their database because they've offended before. Would
you and have that heavyly register, you know, and severe
fines if they're court breaching those kind of you know,
privacy rules.

Speaker 11 (28:26):
Well, at the moment, we know the police on the
lpr's lightst plate recognition cameras have breached it. They breached
it for those two women during COVID going up north.
They actually did some information and they told a FIB
that it was involved with a crime or something and

(28:47):
it wasn't, and they packed. They're vehicles using private companies
who own that information. Now that concerns me that private
companies are allowed to own that information. Should we allow it?
For instance, on open transport trains, there's lots of people

(29:10):
who have problems there, so they actually have it. Brings
up that.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
Would you have it? Would you have a problem with that?

Speaker 2 (29:16):
If there's someone that's assaulted someone on a train before
that when they go on the train, it goes bleep.
You're not coming on that. Do you see that as
a problem.

Speaker 11 (29:25):
I see misidentification of people sometimes as having a problem.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yes, I mean the supermarkets are saying now that when
it when it pops up, just to go back the
supermarket and hardware store example, as it pops up as
someone's been flagged because they're in the system, and then
they have a human look at it before they go
and confront the person. So it does also have a
human brain going going across it.

Speaker 11 (29:50):
Well, what would you think, for instance, if the niche
group was that they put all the faces of legal
immigrants into the grocery stores database and when they went
in there went beep beep and the cops were called immediately.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Well, I mean when that that's a that's a long
way down the track. So you're really saying that once
this is in as a slippery slope, and then there's
another another privacy encroachment, privacy encroachment, and then then there's
law enforcement done in this way. Is that what you're
concerned about, because this isn't what they're suggesting now, with
this facial recognition technology they're they're suggesting it's restricted just

(30:27):
to pinging people that have offended in the store before,
But you're worried where it would go.

Speaker 11 (30:32):
I remember not long ago seeing a promotional film from
China which actually said all these things can happen.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, well they've got they're running their social credit scores
over there, which are pretty pretty terrifying.

Speaker 11 (30:47):
And what I'm saying is here, it's very very easy
for us to say, hey, that'd be good, that would
solve a problem. But sometimes when you solve problems like that,
you actually create much bigger ones.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
Yeah, thank you so much for your calling. Jennis, Oh,
one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Can you imagine a situation right where you've got a
police officer walking down street and they have some facial
recognition camera on their head and as it's looking around,
maybe they've got their glasses facial recogniment glasses, and it's
pinging around and it recognizes faces, and there's little arrows
pointing to the different crimes that people have. Tyler's walking
past and be like ping ping ping, ping, ping, ping

(31:25):
ping ping, all the horrific crimes that you commit and
then they grab you, or they are you know, or
they follow you.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
How would you feel about that?

Speaker 4 (31:36):
It's get pretty close to nineteen eighty four, isn't it.

Speaker 11 (31:38):
Really?

Speaker 2 (31:39):
If I walk past, they'd be like clean as a whistle.
But if someone like you walks past, they basically have
to tasy you immediately.

Speaker 4 (31:44):
Well, unless we're talking thought crimes here, and you're definitely
guilty of a lot of thought crimes.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
But I mean, I mean, that's really what Dennis is saying,
is the technology is there for it to go that far,
and it's unfair though, I believe, to say to the supermarkets,
you can't use this technology when you're constantly being ripped
off just because of all the possibilities down down the road.
Because you could say that about cars, you could go, well,

(32:08):
don't drive cars because some people could drive them down
their pavement and kill a lot of people. Yeah, you know,
it's just because there's the technology has the potential to
harm people doesn't mean that you should not put your
dip your toe in the water of the technology.

Speaker 3 (32:22):
If you see what I'm saying, is.

Speaker 4 (32:23):
It that much different to CCTV. I mean, to me,
it just means that CCTV is a bit more efficient
as you you're.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
Going to have someone watching CCDV for fligging through a
bunch of pictures of people and using our our software
literally soft and that our brain to recognize people exactly.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
Oh, eight hundred ac ten eighty is the number to call.
It is a quarter to two.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
It's a fresh take on talk back. It's Matt Heathen,
Taylor Adams afternoons. Have your say on eight hundred eighty
ten eighty talk.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
We are talking about facial recognition technology and supermarkets and
hardware stores and such. Everyone's concerned so far is about
privacy laws, says Anthony. We just strong laws around the
storage and usage of private data. If we have those
in place, more than happy for us to become a
surveillance state if that means a criminal can get tracked
all the way from the cream.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
Of the cream of this the scene of the crime,
the cream of the cream of the crop of the crime.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
That's not Anthony wrote, from the crime scene to their home.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
Side.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Civil libertarians bring it in, make it safer, says John.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
Yeah, yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
So Mike, welcome the show. Your thoughts on recognition tech?

Speaker 9 (33:42):
Yeah, Hi, back in twenty nineteen, I was in between
jobs and a friend of mine was a breck and
block layer over the Gold Coast and he said, I
need a labor for a month. You want to come over?
Oh yeah, sure, no worries, but of a working holiday.
So I went over there and up in Brisbane where

(34:02):
we had some work. On one night, Friday or Saturday night,
we went out and they've got a big night clubs
drop up there along road full of bars and nightclubs,
and you actually have to stand at the front door.
As you queue up and get to the front door,
they photograph you with the machine and then they photograph
your the driver's license and that information, that data goes

(34:25):
out to every single bar and nightclub in the whole city.
So if you play out, if you play up, and
if you're kicked out or cause trouble, not only are
you removed from the nightclub you're at, you can't get
into any other that night. And I don't know how
long the band lasts, but no one complains about it.

(34:46):
Everyone's happy, and everyone's feel everyone feels safe.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
And that is that all nightclubs or just nightclubs that
belong to the same company.

Speaker 9 (34:55):
No, no, that's every single one of them. I don't
know if it's a something by law, but they all
do it and everyone feels really safe.

Speaker 14 (35:03):
And what's what?

Speaker 2 (35:03):
What what do they look for if you're intoxicated? Does
that Does that justify sending it out to everyone? If
you deemed to be intoxicated by the bouncer?

Speaker 9 (35:11):
Oh? Yeah, yeah, I'm sure it would. I mean, no
other bar wants to serve drinks to inebriated person, so
to cover it, they want fine, they don't want fines
and stuff. So there you go, you're off, you're gone.
So yeah, So, not only does it protect the customers,
it protects the intoxicated individual from getting even more drunk,

(35:32):
and then protects the businesses from serving and getting fined
for serving drinks. So it's good. But just the other
thing I want to mention is because I was I
was a bricklayers laborer. I spent an entire month loading
a concrete mixer all day, and we would start at
sex and finish at two to beat the heat. So
we'd finished yearly. Started to finished early and it was

(35:53):
thirty five degree heat. I've never consumed so much water
per day in my entire life. And in the sun,
and you know, you load. I was loading up three
bricklayers on three level scaffolding, and you know, and they're
crying out, mad, mad more Matt, and you've got to
load up three levels of why shovel three levels of scaffolding?

(36:17):
And I did that for a whole month. And when
I got when I first got there, I was unfit
and overweight. And when I left, I went through. I
went to leave through the Gold Coasts where was calling
forget the airport, and Customs actually pulled me aside.

Speaker 3 (36:36):
I didn't recognize you because you were different size.

Speaker 9 (36:39):
I was different. Yeah, I was handed, I was lean,
I was strong, and so base your recognition technology, you
would think that Customs has the very best of the best.
But they pulled me aside and said, well is this
you and can you please prove this please?

Speaker 3 (36:53):
And you said oh yeah, he said why, I thank you.
I have been every day.

Speaker 9 (36:58):
That's the company. Yeah, yeah, that's yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
If you change that much, there's limitations. And I imagine
the same thing with growing a huge beard and such.
But say, Mike, just to go back to the nightclub situation,
with the facial recognition technology, would you what if you
went into a bar and it went bing.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
You're good. Last time you hear you ordered this drink.
Do you want it again?

Speaker 2 (37:22):
And if you go yes, then you go up to
the bar and it would be ready for you. Would
you support that?

Speaker 9 (37:28):
As long as what the bar is doing doesn't hurt
me and harm me. I couldn't kill less. I think
I'm intelligent enough to have discretion.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
And just what if they use that information to then say, look,
buff ten guys like Mike, they like this kind of
drink and they use that as marketing data.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
How would you feel about that?

Speaker 9 (37:51):
No, it wouldn't bother me.

Speaker 4 (37:52):
Ye, well, thank you so much, long as it was
a good discount. But I mean that to Mike's point
about the bars. This is where I'm changing my mind
a little bit. That I can absolutely understand why bars
would have that technology to stop people who have got
into a scrap or been a little bit antisocial. So
with that in mind, I suppose the same applies to
a supermarket. Right if someone comes in with the intention

(38:13):
to commit a crime, then I've changed my mind here.
Then they are fully within their right to use technology
to stop the criminal.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Okay, what about this thought experiment? Then Tyler, what if
the facial technology gets to the point now where it
seems to be going with AI where they can read
your facial expressions and make assumptions about your intentions coming
into the store. Poor, So you've just had an argument
with the missus in the car and you come in
and then you're tagged as someone that's a potential problem

(38:43):
because you're you're you're very angry.

Speaker 4 (38:45):
It's probably fair enough in that circumstance.

Speaker 9 (38:48):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
One hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call
it as seven to two.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
Matt Heath, Taylor Adams taking your calls on Oh, eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty. It's Matt Heath and Tylor
Adams afternoons news talks.

Speaker 4 (39:02):
It is four to two. A couple of texts before
we hit the news.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Talking about shoplifting, brought about other offenses. Is your car
payment overdue? Your power account, a child support payment? Will
you be met by a bayliff at the checkout? Will
you find your car gone when you go to leave
because the system has alerted a toe truck company about
your overdue speeding finds don I mean that's the sort
of slippery slope argument but I would say that the
supermarkets and retailers that want to do this uninterested in that. Really,

(39:30):
they just want to stop people robbing them ten times,
and if someone has already robbed them, they want to
load their face into the facial recognition technology and when
they come and they can ping them and go, hey mate,
last time you were here, you caused the problem.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
Get out. Yep at that point, yep, exactly. Hey.

Speaker 4 (39:46):
Coming up after the news, we're gonna have a chat
with Retail New Zealand chief executive Carolyn Young. She is
right across the use of this facial recognition technology. So
we've got a lot of questions we'll put to her
very shortly. It is three to two.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Talking with you all afternoon, It's Matt Heathan Taylor Adams
Afternoons News Talks.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
It'd be good afternoon to you.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
So, as we've been discussing, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith wants
to allow the use of facial recognition technology in the
fight against retail crime, despite acknowledging tensions with people's right
to privacy. To discuss this, it's great to have Retail
n Z chief executive Carolyn Young on the phone. Carolyn
very Good afternoon to you.

Speaker 6 (40:29):
Carola, Good afternoon.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
So how does this trial facial recognition technology work in
a store?

Speaker 6 (40:37):
Well, it's I'll do my best to describe it and
a quick complement. It's as quite complex system. So basically
to want to put a facial recognition trial in your store,
you need to have some reason why you would do that.
So that would be because you've got a number of
people that are continuing to cause abuse and violence and

(40:58):
aggression in store. The primary reason it's been put on
faces for staff safety. There's a lot of violent and
aggressive behavior we see in retail these days, and so
what stores have what food Stuffs have done, and they've
established in a number of stores people that have offended
in store, whether it's that they have been aggressive and

(41:20):
violent towards staff, or potentially they may have stolen and
been aggressive and those sorts of behaviors. They've trespassed them,
they've been offended. They've got a photo of them from
the truth pass. Notice, they load that photo and the
photo is a headshot only, so it doesn't include anything
below your chin, so no shoulders, no body, no nothing,

(41:41):
only your head. And so the headshot gets loaded into
the facial reognition technology system and in the stores that
they were random stores that were selected to do the
trial as part of the requirements and the Privacy Commissioner,
And in those twenty five stores that did the trial,
they had large signs out the front of the store

(42:02):
at every entrance telling people that they had their facial
recognition was in play in the store, and that if
they didn't want to come in store, that was their
obviously their ability to not come in, but they were
notified before they entered store so that they had the
choice about whether they came in the store. When you
walk in the store and you or I walk in,
we have never offended in that particular store, our image

(42:27):
is deleted immediately. There's no storing of any data. If,
on the other hand, John Smith, who last time he
was in the store he spat and kicked that starre, yeah,
he he has loaded up into the system. He comes
back into store after he's been trespassed, an alert goes

(42:49):
to a device that tells the store that John Smith
has just entered. Now there's a couple of things that
happen here. Firstly, the store can traffic lighter a person
that they enter in, so they might they might traff
it like someone to say, really violent and aggressive, do
not approach, call the police immediately. You know, based on

(43:10):
the previous actions that this person has had in that store,
and so you would know, and part of the way
you create a safer work environment is that you would
then know that you've got an extremely violent and aggressive
person in store, and he's not to be he or
she has not to be approached. You might have somebody
else who is you know, maybe they had a bad day,

(43:33):
they haven't offended previously, they were abusive in store, but
they have been trespassed for three months or something like that,
so they might well be approachable. So you could easily
approach them as they have come to start to have
come in the store and say, excuse me John Smith,
will use John Smith again, or maybe you'll use free dag.
Excuse me, free dag. But you know you've been trespassed,

(43:55):
you're not meant to be in here. And you know
eighty to ninety percent of the time you approach somebody
upon entry and acknowledge them around the actions are taken
previously and they shouldn't be in store. They will turn away,
turn around and walk out, and they apologize, and then
there might be some other people that you might just
monitor and store. And what facial recognition does is that

(44:19):
it's a it's a biometric that it takes a view
of the face that matches up your facial features. The
minimum match was set at ninety percent, and what food
Stuffs recognized is that the quality of the photo you
put into the system needs to be quite high to
ensure that you get an accurate match. So the threshold

(44:39):
was ninety percent. If anything was over ninety four or
ninety five percent, they knew that virtually every time it
was one hundred percent match between ninety and ninety four
percent has to take more care because there is an
element of risk in there, and so with every alert
that they get, they'd have two trained people would look
at that photo and consider whether or not it was

(45:01):
the person that was in their system.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
So, when going going forward with the situation, you say,
this was just sort of people splitting and violent offenders
and start. So shoplifters aren't the ones being targeted in
this trial, But would you see going forward that shoplifters
would have their faces loaded into this facial recognition technology.

Speaker 6 (45:22):
Yeah, so shoplifters may well have also been included because
people that are feeling are often violent and aggressive with that,
so there's a combination of things that the primary reason
was to keep the staff safe, and by by understanding
who's in the store enables you to create a safer
work environment for your staff and for your customers. So

(45:44):
it ultimately, you know, it does a dual purpose, right,
It will make the store safer and will reduce the
amount of offending because most of the people that are
being violent and abusive and aggressive are also asfending to
a certain degree in store. I mean, you can't go
and say to your work collar. You can't go and
split it them allset or punch them. I've seen videos

(46:07):
of a four second interaction between a customer and a
staff member where the customer just punches the staff member
and say, and it's got accelerated in four seconds. They
walk up to the counter, they have a conversation, they
smack them straight away. I've seen other images where people's
gone in store and they have set fire, They've done

(46:27):
arson in a store to steal a trolley load of gods.
So they've gone in there and that puts every staff
member in danger. Right, if your business is going to
be set a light that is quite stressful environment to
be in, so you don't want to help the host
people coming back in your store, and you want to
protect you. So it's a dual purpose, right, It protects

(46:47):
The primary thing is that it protects the staff and
creates a safe environment. But at the same time, these
are people that are offending, so it will reduce the
level of crime and it can be used as a
preventative tool rather than a reactive tool after the event.
And the key thing is that if you can approach
someone within the first minutism being in the store, they

(47:09):
have not got themselves worked up into a frenzy and
they're not going to be as aggressive and violent as
you are. If you get them straight away, if they've
had time to mooch around the store and they know
that they've got to get your adrenaline up to force
through a trolley worth of goods and not pay for it.
If you're doing that before they've even got anything in
a trolley or in a bag, you get a much
better outcome, and certainly the outcomes and the trials for

(47:31):
that time and time again, we're.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
Talking to Carolyn Young, Retail New Zealand chief executive. So
is it security that approaches the people? So you have
security guards on staff and they approach them. It's not
up to the checkout person to approach these people.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
That are ping.

Speaker 6 (47:49):
Well, no, it's not up to the checkout person. So
it'll be people in store that have been identified and
have been trained. So it could be a security guard
if there's no security guard on judy, because there's not,
there's two people, So you'll probably have three or four
people across the environment of a supermarket that are trained
at any point in time that could use do the
identification and would get better alert. So, for example, if

(48:12):
it's at a time when a security guard isn't on duty,
then it would be it'll be two other senior people
within the store, but it wouldn't be a checkout operator
that would be asked to ask someone to leave. It
someone that's trained and skilled and doing so and can identify,
you know, as this person violent and aggressive and do
we need to call a police straight away? And that's
a really that's probably one of the greatest tools is

(48:34):
knowing that people that are really aggressive can be addressed
in a way in which you don't have to you
call the police. They will come because they know that
you've already identified someone that's been high level offending previously.

Speaker 4 (48:46):
What are the laws in place for the storage of
that data, carond because a lot of people they may
unfairly be freaking out they con dir upt images of
Minority Report nineteen eighty four. But as the strict laws
and fail safes in place, that that data is deleted,
as you say, if nobody does anything wrong and certainly
can't get into the wrong hands.

Speaker 6 (49:07):
Yeah, couple of things. I guess, well, there's quite a
lot of things not try and remember to cover everything off.
But firstly, for those people that are not on the
alert list, your images to meet deleted immediately because there's
nothing to match against. So within the second of you
being in the store, your image is deleted. The person

(49:27):
who has created the alert or the image that's created
the alert, that file is deleted at midnight that night.
This is how the trial was a set up with
the Privacy Commissioner. So that means that the store has
got till midnight to complete a report around what happened?
Was it the right person? You know, all of those

(49:47):
sorts of things and file that. But then that file
is then removed from the system, and that's controlled through
third parties that controlled all of that stuff, so it's
not stored anywhere you can't go into. And the computer
that the financial the facial recognition technology sits on is
a separate computer. It's not on a network, it's not

(50:10):
on Wi Fi, it's not on any system that is
part of a supermarket network or within the store. It's
completely standalone. So and it doesn't store anything beyond midnight
of an alert from that person. So some of those
things might be tweaked a little bit. You can imagine,

(50:30):
as an example, in a supermarket, if you are matching
a face and only the face and you and it's
a ninety six percent match, then you know that's that person.
Come into store. Very hard to find that person on
a Saturday astronoment. You've got hundreds of people in the
store because you don't you don't have any idea what
they're wearing at all. Did you find all you've got

(50:54):
from the image as a face?

Speaker 3 (50:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (50:56):
Did you find because you said this was heavily sign
signed and signposted for people coming into the stores that
are on the trial, did you find that it affected
numbers going in, because that's really if people are coming stable,
if people are going in and they're happy to be
have their their faces recognized. That I mean round about
way of saying decision didn't affect the business.

Speaker 6 (51:21):
No, not in a negative way, not like that. No,
not at all. There's always people that will question whether
they're comfortable with something like that technology being used, and
they may choose not to go install. But there was
no absolutely less well less than one percent. And then
there's always ways in which people can access further information
via a website around how it's run and what happens

(51:42):
in a FAQ on the website and those sorts of things.
So the key is making sure that you communicate really
well and really strongly with your customers so that they're
confident when they're coming install that they're being well looked
after and that people aren't using their images in any
way that's inappropriate.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
Well, just two questions to finish, Thank you so much
for your time. Will the data be shared with the
police via the Aurora network? And secondly, what about people
wearing masks and head coverings or with disguises?

Speaker 6 (52:10):
Great question, right, Let's let's deal with the seat of
the last question. First, So what you know, especially if
you've got security sitting outside your store, if someone's coming
in with a mask, hoddy up and dark glasses, that's
that's screams and catterlets travel right, telltale signs, and so
what normally happens. The facial recognition system normally has between

(52:34):
two and four cameras in store that's all right at
the entry, not linked to any of the CCTV or anything.
So if they don't capture them in the first two cameras,
often someone that has that hasn't been stopped by security
for the way they dress with the hot and the
mask and the gloves and in the shades and everything.

(52:57):
They'll take the shades off and the mask off the
minute they get in the store, and they can get
picked up on the second camera. But it is certainly
a high alert situation. If you see someone like that,
it spells trouble with a capital T.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
Gotcha, and just on the AURA network, Carolyn, Yes, No, it's.

Speaker 6 (53:12):
A completely separate system. You can't transfer any data across
to any other system. It's not part of that. If
somebody is ascending in store, you would be using your
CCTV images to report those through and remembering that not
every retailer uses AURA. So whether you'd be reporting through
the one oh five or one one one or through AURA,

(53:32):
nothing comes off the Facial Recognition Technology platform To enable
you to do that, you have to use your CCTV
for that.

Speaker 4 (53:40):
Gotcha, Carolyn, Thank you very much for having to chat
with us. Very interesting. That is retail in z CEO,
Carolyn Young. It is twenty past two, will be back
very shortly. You're listening to Matt and Tyler.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
Wow your home of afternoon Talk mad Heathen Taylor Adams
Afternoons call oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty News Talk.

Speaker 4 (54:01):
ZB News TALKSB twenty three past two. Some great texts
come through?

Speaker 3 (54:08):
So how would you all notify the staff?

Speaker 2 (54:10):
So the question is, you know, we were just talking
before about facial recognition technology. If John Smith comes in,
do you how do you notify the whole staff? That's
an interesting point. I guess you could go around and
say watch out for that guy, watch out for that guy,
watch out for that guy, because if you put it.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
Over the over the speakers. But then again there are
the codes.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
If you read Chuck Pollyannact Box, it talks about all
the codes that they have in different organizations.

Speaker 11 (54:33):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
So you might say green some product that doesn't exist.
That means that there's a bad operator in the store.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
Yeah, very true.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
Kidney beans and lental cans are discounted. Could someone bring
one to the counter something like that, and everyone knows
that there's the dirty John Smith. John Smith is just
a name that she prought up as an example of
a person, and so many texts going this John Smith
sounds like a right piece of work.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
Bannon.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
This person says, taser John Smith. Now this person says,
all John Smith should be tased as they enter the store.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
Yeah. I mean that was just her polling a name.

Speaker 4 (55:04):
If your named John Smith, we apologize to is. She
also said fred Dagg And this one says, guys, it
always starts with it's all about safety and ends with
take this experimental information, and I hope that we're going
to use it correctly.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
Yeah. I mean that is some of the concerns.

Speaker 4 (55:20):
But I think what Carolyn was saying made a lot
of sense, and it does sound like there is a
lot of fail safes in there, and that the information
certainly wasn't used if you didn't do anything wrong. It
was deleted out of the system and wasn't stored.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
Right.

Speaker 4 (55:33):
It is twenty four past two. You're listening to Matt
and Tyler back very shortly. Great to have your company
as always.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
Matt Heathen, Tyler Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty on News Talks EDB.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
News Talks EDB.

Speaker 4 (55:51):
It is twenty seven pass two, right coming up, Let's
have a chat about sex education. The government has started
consulting on new draft Curriculum for Relationships and Sexuality Education.
They call it RC in schools.

Speaker 3 (56:06):
Let's talk about sex ed Bay, let's talk about you
and me? Wait, one hundred eighty ten ed very good.
It kind of worked. It kind of worked. Syllable missing there,
but it kind of worked. Yeah, so schools all very well.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
But you'd be a pretty slack parent, wouldn't you if
you just left sexy it up to them? So when
and how should parents approach it? How did you do
it with your kids? If you did it, how did
your parents do it with you? Because I'm sure it's
changed a lot through the fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties
and today hit music and look, well, maybe if you didn't.

(56:44):
You know, maybe there's some people that think that's up
to the government to educate their kids on these topics,
and they're quite happy with just how it rolled through
the schools and never bought anything up. I mean I
started that by saying I think there's a slack parents.
I've sort of I revealed my assumptions here, but some
people might just go, look, the government knows what it's
talking about. I'm happy with the government to decide on

(57:04):
what the schools teach my kids around sex.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
Nothing against my parents.

Speaker 4 (57:09):
They're both beautiful, beautiful people, but they certainly didn't sit
us down to have a chat about the birds and
bees that much. That first started in the schooling system,
and then when we had a few more questions, their
mom took up the mantle.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
Dad didn't want to bar of it too awkward.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Yeah, well, my dad when early explained some stuff to
me and I wrote some rude words on the blackboard
at Multi Hill Primary School that have caused a lot
of problems and my parents were called to school.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
That's the way to do it.

Speaker 4 (57:34):
Oh, eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
number to call. Love to hear your thoughts on the
changes to six head and how you have that discussion
with your children. It is twenty eight past two.

Speaker 13 (57:47):
Yous talk said the headlines with blue bubble taxis it's
no trouble with a blue bubble. Heavy rain and strong
winds are set to lash the Upper North Island. Met
Services issued a heavy rain watch for Northland from early
tomorrow morning. Auckland, Great Barring Island and Corimandel Peninsula are
set to be hit on Thursday, easing on Friday. The

(58:09):
Justice and Police Minister says the government surpassed its own
violent crime reduction target. It set a goal in March
last year of having twenty thousand fewer victims of serious
violent crime, with an initial twenty twenty nine deadline. Small
and medium business confidence is on the rise, reaching its
highest point in five years. A survey by accounting software

(58:32):
firm Noyob has found forty six percent of respondents expect
the economy to improve over the next year. Claims are necessary,
Delays in getting people back to work are costing ACC millions,
Vigilante violence fifteen to twenty five percent, chants of attack
on MP Benjamin Doyle. A security report shows you can

(58:54):
find out more at ens adherld Premium. Now back to
Matteathan Tyler Adams.

Speaker 4 (58:59):
Thank you, ay Lean, And we're discussing our sex education
and schools. The government, as you may or may not
have seen, they have started consultation on a new draft
correct and four Relationships and Sexuality Education. They call it
ARAC in schools. Those guidelines provided optional advice to schools
on how to teach children about those relationships and sexuality

(59:19):
and aspects are likely to be included in that new curriculum,
which will be mandatory for schools to teach. However, parents
will still be able to opt their children out.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
Of the program.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Yeah, standard said, we're going to going out for consultation
to say is this the right time to be talking
about these differences? Is it the right time to be
talking about consent? Is it the right time to be
naming body parts when you're five years old? Is it
okay that we're talking more to boys in upper secondary
school about consent? Is it okay to start talking about
online safety in year five?

Speaker 3 (59:51):
That's what we're out to do. So boy, our boy.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
It's a contentious issue for the longest period of time,
but yeah, one hundred and eighty ten eighty do you
are you happy just to leave it in the hands
of the government, or are you going to have that
chat you to your kids?

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
And if so when and if so, what about and
e one hundred and eighteen eighty Tell us how it
went if you did it in the past, or tell
it how it went when you received it. Kids growing
up on a farm, saysus, text to see it all
the time and luckily learn the way it was, explaining
at a very young age.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
No bicking. That's so true. That is so true, very true.
And the sixer says the same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Take the kids to the farm during mating season and
fill the questions that our I seriously though, best way
to show it's very normal. That is a really good point.
There's no way that you can be around a farm
and not see. I mean, kids are going, why is yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:00:46):
Why is the seat cow jumping up on that other cow?

Speaker 11 (01:00:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
Why is that sheep trying to ride the other sheep? Daddy?
Yeh well, well let me tell you, let me tell you. Yeah.
Of course, the way animals do it isn't necessarily the
way we want to do it ourselves. But love to
hear thoughts. I one hundred eighteen eighty.

Speaker 4 (01:01:04):
Did you think it's harder for appearance now that kids
say of X is to way more information than I
had when I was eleven twelve thirteen, when the teacher
sat down and started going through the book on sexuality
and Relationships. I mean, what's your take on it. Do
you think it is more treacherous for parents to try
and tackle that now, or that kids are coming up

(01:01:26):
to them at an earlier age with questions that they've
got to try and answer the best way they can't.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
Oh, I reckon this. Probably.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
I reckon this questions coming a lot earlier. Yeah, absolutely.
I mean watching movies with your kids on Netflix. You know,
one of those things that happens to you when you've
got kids, as you watch these movies and you can't
wait to show your kid this movie, and then you've
totally forgotten about the quite intense six scenes and it

(01:01:55):
pops up, and then there's all kinds of questions. I
just think you just have to not be afraid of it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
You know, you can't make it a scary or weird thing.
It just has to be something you ask questions straight up.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
I mean I would argue that you have to get
into it before puberty. And you know puberty can come
at different ages for different kids, but I'd get into
it before puberty with my kids, before the try and
try and get in there. I mean, I think you
definitely want to control the discourse as much as the
school does.

Speaker 4 (01:02:28):
Well, that was my next question is do you wait
for the child to come to you or do you
try and go to the children first and sit them
down and have that chat. But keen to hear your
thoughts on this. I waite hundred eighty ten eighty. How
did you have that chat with your children? And how
do you feel about this consultation document how sex education
has been taught in our schools and high schools.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
So you know what I'd love to hear from people,
as I was saying before the old school chats, the
really old school sixty seventies, eighties chats that parents attempted
to do.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
What was your opener?

Speaker 4 (01:03:01):
Oh, eight, one hundred eighty ten eighty is the number
to call?

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
It is twenty four to three.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and
everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons used talks.

Speaker 4 (01:03:13):
They'd be very good afternoon too. You were talking about
changes to sex education. Consultation has been opened, but we've
also asked the question, how did you have that conversation
with your own children?

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Or how did your parents awkwardly approach you with the conversation?

Speaker 11 (01:03:29):
Yea.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
I love to hear some of those chats boy a
boy in a few years my parents. When my kids
look back and tell stories about how I approached it,
they'll say that was horribly awkward.

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
Penny. Your thoughts on this?

Speaker 8 (01:03:44):
Hi, guys, thanks for having me, Thanks for giving us
a buzz.

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
What's your thoughts?

Speaker 15 (01:03:49):
Yeah, well my thoughts. I have an organization called Let
Kids Be Kids, So I talked to lots of different parents.
But I'll start by answering your question, how did I
have the conversation with my kids?

Speaker 13 (01:04:00):
What?

Speaker 15 (01:04:00):
I sound really good? And I tell people this is
have it while you're driving in the car because they
can't get out and you don't have to look them
in the eye because that can be awkward. Because I
have sons, and so I found that chatting about it
in the car was a great way to do it
because it was lighthearted. My approach on it was I
didn't want them finding out from their mates in the

(01:04:22):
school yard who don't actually really know. And the more
that I look at the sexy and stuff that's taught
in some schools, the more I'm grateful that my kids
went through most of the system without it, because that's
not what some of it isn't what you want them
to know either, So parents have always been the best
people to teach most kids about it. It was quite
concerning just the overall push in the narrative that parents

(01:04:46):
are not the best people to teach their kids about stuff.
I mean, they know about it, otherwise your kids wouldn't
have existed.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
What about, Penny, What about the parents that just don't
get round to it and for whatever reason, maybe they're
poor parents, or maybe they're just find it too awkward
and never find the moment and.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
Never get round to it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Do you think that the school should be taking up
some of the slack there the schools.

Speaker 15 (01:05:11):
I think there's some I think there's some cultures that
would be that would that finds us harder to talk about.
But I don't think that that's representative of the majority
of the population, And therefore I don't believe that mandating
sex education and then not being transparent with parents about
what's being taught, which is what's going on, is the

(01:05:33):
way to solve that problem. I think there's a better
way to empower parents and to yeah, rather than to
say that the parents are doing a bad job. I
don't know why that narrative has managed to get so big,
because an actual fact, I don't think the problem is
as big as it's being made out to be.

Speaker 4 (01:05:52):
Is it harder, do you think, for parents in today's
age than it has been with excess for a lot
of young people to pretty much any information that they
want on the internet. Does that make things more difficult
that you've got to try and get them a bit younger?

Speaker 15 (01:06:07):
I think that if we're parents, should be parenting and
actually realizing that the stuff that's available with their kids
online is more harmful than we could have ever imagined,
and that's something that needs to be dealt with in
the home. But I also, you know, the massive difference
is going on. When I was at school, we had
sex ed. Now it's sexuality ed, which is very very different,

(01:06:31):
and it's very ideological. And you know, when we were
growing up, there weren't furies, and there weren't all the
other one hundred different genders and now there is and biologically,
as species, we haven't changed, but what's changed is the ideology.
And parents need to understand that sex ed that we
grew up with is not the same as what children

(01:06:53):
are receiven in class today.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
And do you believe that the sex ed that they
should get should be, for a want of a bit
of a word, more functional. I remember my son, one
of my sons, came home from school and he was like, Wow, Dad,
it's great to be a boy.

Speaker 9 (01:07:08):
Way.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
The stuff's really easy for us because of what was
being described in terms of the biological functions that boys
and girls go through as they hit puberty. So do
you think it should be more along just those lines,
just the stuff that they need to understand to be
able to go to school and know what's happening to them.

Speaker 15 (01:07:28):
Well, it's good that he's come home saying that, because
he's obviously getting biological information, which is great, and we've
always had that in schools when Miles growing up, it
was an intermediate age. The problem that's happening now is
that kids are being taught stuff from when they're five
years old that's quite sexual in nature and gets more
so so the whole framework has changed when we talk

(01:07:50):
to parents and explain that the stuff now in school
from five year olds. You know, if people are thinking
that we should be teaching five year old sexual topics,
we need to have a bigger question about society. We
shouldn't be loading children with adult concepts. Their brains are
not ready for it, and that they take their body

(01:08:11):
they take it literally. Like we hear about stories of
you know, eight year olds who come home questioning.

Speaker 6 (01:08:16):
Whether they're meant a boy that's meant meant to be
a girl because they got told it in class.

Speaker 15 (01:08:20):
Their brains are not ready for the ideological political narratives
that's been pushed on them. And it's so different from
sex ed.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
So, Penny, what would you what would you say? So
when you talk about sex ed versus sexuality? What what
would you see? Basically are the things that need to
be taught at schools and and you know what are
what are the basics and when?

Speaker 15 (01:08:45):
So the basics would be that there is a binary
difference between boys and girls. But you don't need to
teach that from young because they actually figure this out
because they actually know stuff without being taught explicitly in
the class, you know, and then as they're growing up
more about their you know, healthy relationships and their pubertal changes,

(01:09:06):
their body changes, and they do need to be helped
to know how to deal with the assault that is
the sexualized world that they live in, which is online
and in the school and everywhere and in the TV
and everything. But it's got to be taught in a
way that doesn't further sexualize them. There is content in
classes in schools that we know about that parents have

(01:09:31):
seen and kids have told us about that looks like
porn and it looks like grooming. Now, if you pass
that to some kid out on the street, you'd probably
be arrested. But because it's been taught under the guise
of relationship and sexuality education, it's apparently allowed, and not
only allowed, but parents often aren't told what the content is.

(01:09:52):
They're told that due to copyright, the parents can't know. Now,
Never would a parent think that the lessons that they're
being taught the kids have been taught in class should
be copyright, particularly not when the Education and Training Act
actually says that parents cannot doubt How can a parent
opt out if they've been told the content is copyright.

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
Yeah, well, thank you so much for your call, Penny.
You're getting a lot of support on the text machine now.

Speaker 4 (01:10:16):
Oh one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
to call. Love to hear your thoughts about sexual education
within schools. Consultation is out as we speak on potential changes,
but also how you approached that conversation with your own children.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
This Texas says adult entertainment is so easy to get
hold of these days. Back in high school, there was
an old school videotape that just got handed around between
all of us. My copy was greatly disintegrated.

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
All right, all right, thank you for that, Yeah, very much.

Speaker 4 (01:10:46):
Coming through all right, it's thirteen to three.

Speaker 3 (01:10:49):
Back in a month, the.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
Issues that affect you and a bit of fun along
the way. Matt Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons News.

Speaker 4 (01:10:57):
Talk z EDB News Talks EDB, and we're talking about
potential changes to sex education with in school's. Consultation is
out at the moment, but keen to hear from you
how you had that conversation with your children or how
your parents had that conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
We've got someone on the phone who's fresh from the experience. Brohan,
You just graduated from high school.

Speaker 16 (01:11:17):
Yeah, yeah, well yeah, I think I think currently, yeah,
this I think it's a lilliver bit early. I mean
I remember even when I was in primary school about
fifteen years ago, like they started off way too early
in my opinion. It was stuff that I didn't know.
I came home and my parents were all a bit
shocked about the stuff I was asking and it was

(01:11:38):
just a bit like I agree that in high school
definitely things would be taught and even intermediate, but in
primary school, like the previous lady was talking about, it's
just a.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
Bit early, right, Rahana.

Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
Do you think from talking to other people your age,
that was a specific to your primary school or do
you think that was across the board type situation.

Speaker 16 (01:12:00):
No, I think it was a cross board carded situation.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
Without sort of going into too many oh when you do,
so what you want? But what what what kind of
stuff were you hearing when you you know, when you
were when when you were at primary school? And if
you say fifteen years ago, how long we were you
talking about? When you're when you're five, is that what
you're talking about?

Speaker 16 (01:12:19):
Well, yeah, I'm nineteen, right.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
So so you're talking you got it?

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
Right from the start of primary school, did you Rohan,
you got some form of sexual education three?

Speaker 9 (01:12:29):
First?

Speaker 17 (01:12:30):
It was three?

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
Oh yeah, so so year three so you'd have been
about eight.

Speaker 8 (01:12:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just.

Speaker 16 (01:12:38):
Like anatomy, but the amount that we were taught maybe
with a little bit too much. I agree that it
should be introduced, but I don't think it should be
to the extent that it has been. Like, I don't know,
it just I feel like it. You know how in
primary school, you know, there's a whole curitious thing. I
feel like it's further a situated that kind of thing
because it made us scared of the other gender.

Speaker 11 (01:13:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
Yeah, that's an interesting one. But but when you say anatomy, as,
isn't that I mean, you have the anatomy. That's a
normal thing. And there's a lot of Texas have been saying,
if you want, you want kids to learn about sexuality
on a basis, you know, sex education on a basic level,
take them to a farm and you'll see all the
anatomy that you'll ever want to see, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:13:24):
So is the anatomy such a bad thing to learn about?

Speaker 9 (01:13:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 16 (01:13:28):
I think rather than telling people what to think, it's
more about putting the pieces there would be the more
better option, right, kind of being like, hey, this is
what goes on, you know, But like like the previous
lady was saying, I don't catch your name. Telling people
about orientation stuff can be humming.

Speaker 3 (01:13:47):
Oh so you got that stuff quite early, did you, Rohan.

Speaker 11 (01:13:53):
I feel it was a bit later for.

Speaker 16 (01:13:54):
Me because obviously that's a little bits in the media
and whatnot. But yeah, even even as slightly older cared
it was the confusing I remember friends having younger siblings
who were getting taught orientation things and they would definitely
very confused to younger.

Speaker 4 (01:14:07):
Siblings, right, And what you mentioned, your parents were a
bit you know, flabbergasted by the questions you were asking
at that point. Did they sit you down to have
a conversation from parent to child or what was that
response from from that point?

Speaker 16 (01:14:22):
So my dad sent me down. But for me, it
was more you gave me kind of the you know,
the things you see online are a bit faked and
things like that. That was more the talk that I got, right,
you know, being in the age that I started off
with no devices and immediately kind of became very devising.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
Yeah, yeah, you've come through a really interesting time actually, Yeah,
from from just you know, people not having smartphones to
everyone having smartphones and having everything right in.

Speaker 16 (01:14:49):
Their pockets with my dad's sick and handslip, your phone,
my phone.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
Now I've got a question for you for for what
your experience that you went through and you think it
was a bit early, but have you turned out okay? Rahan,
you you feel that that that you you've been scarred
at all or you okay?

Speaker 16 (01:15:10):
I it's hard to answer that question really.

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):
I think I think my parents crazy questions.

Speaker 16 (01:15:15):
I think a lot of parents might not know how
to handle that situation.

Speaker 18 (01:15:18):
Yeah, obvious that as well, especially if you're the first kid.

Speaker 3 (01:15:20):
You know, it's yeah, like.

Speaker 16 (01:15:23):
It really depends on how the questions that you ask
when you got home and then how they handle it.

Speaker 11 (01:15:28):
If you ask any.

Speaker 2 (01:15:28):
Questions when you got home, yeah and so and so
your parents backed up some of the stuff that you
you know, you came home and they asked questions, and
your parents and gave you gave you the chat.

Speaker 12 (01:15:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (01:15:38):
Yeah, like it was quite a supportive environment. That was
that was nice to you know, get told what I
needed to but also not go too much into detail
at a young age.

Speaker 3 (01:15:45):
Haarling yeah, awkward. Yes, yep, that says at all.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
But by the by the gap of your answer, the
the the awkwardity, it still seems like it sits with you.

Speaker 4 (01:16:00):
Rohan, thank you very much for giving us a buzz.
A couple of texts to the news guys, I'm sixty five,
got given a purple book with pictures and basic words.
In those days, babies came after marriage, so I was
intrigued when my older brother had married in May and baby.

Speaker 3 (01:16:16):
Born in September. Can't remember how they explain that. I
heard that wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
I thought I'm sixty five, got given a purple book
with the pictures. I thought they were saying they were.

Speaker 3 (01:16:24):
Just learning it now at sixty five, just going wrong
with that. They've just got the book now.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
But yeah, I mean, look there, it's amazing that the
small gestation experiences you know, that people have when they're
involved in Sudent churches. Yeah, you know, get married and
then the baby comes out.

Speaker 3 (01:16:40):
You know, wow, what a miracle. Exactly healthy baby after
three months.

Speaker 4 (01:16:45):
The sticks to says, guys, it's important that kids know
the facts. Would you rather they heard it second hand
in the playground or the correct advice from a prescribed curriculum.

Speaker 2 (01:16:55):
Yeah, well it just I just I guess the question
is what's on the curriculum though, Yeah, you know it's
prescribed by who and what's on it?

Speaker 11 (01:17:04):
Yep?

Speaker 3 (01:17:04):
Exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:17:05):
Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
I love to hear from you on this. We are
going to pick it back up after the three o'clock news.
Keen to hear your thoughts on the consultation about sexual education,
what you know about what they teach kids in school
and high school, and also how you were taught about
the birds and the bees and sexual education, where your

(01:17:26):
parents had that moment where they set you down and said,
this is how it all works.

Speaker 3 (01:17:31):
Love to hear some super awkward stories, if you got them.
We're also going to hear from Acauler, who was involved
in a sex head program called The Big Weekend. YEP,
looking forward to that this one Giday.

Speaker 19 (01:17:39):
Matt.

Speaker 4 (01:17:40):
I've got five grandchildren age seven to fourteen. All are
very well schooled at home re relationships, respect, body changes
and sex and growing up. The other thing we've focused
on is abuse by other people. What to do, what
not to be a shamed to your parents in New
Zealand is the worst out of ten OECD countries for
elder abuse. Homeschooling has certainly worked out pretty well for

(01:18:04):
them and all of those bits of information resex head
was taught by the parents.

Speaker 3 (01:18:08):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 4 (01:18:09):
Keep those texts coming through. But New Sport and Weather on.
It's way great to have your company as always it
is for minutes to three listening to matt and Tyler.

Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
Very very good afternoon to you.

Speaker 19 (01:18:33):
Come on.

Speaker 1 (01:18:41):
Your new homes are instateful and entertaining talk. It's Mattie
and Taylor Adams afternoons on News Talk.

Speaker 3 (01:18:48):
Sebby afternoon to you, welcome back to the program.

Speaker 4 (01:18:52):
Been having a great discussion about sexual education on the
back of consultation is now open to get New Zealander's
thoughts on how sex is taught within our schools. And
we've been hearing some great stories about the birds and
the bees conversation that you you head with your.

Speaker 3 (01:19:09):
Kids or vice versa.

Speaker 2 (01:19:10):
Yeah, and we had Penny who was caller who said
the best place to give your kids the big chat
is in the car because they can't get out this
text of disagrees.

Speaker 3 (01:19:18):
Oh gosh, telling the car. I remember my mom did that.
I didn't go anywhere with her for years after that traumatic.

Speaker 2 (01:19:26):
You may be able to trap them in the car
for the chat, but they may not want to get
into the car with you ever. Again, we were talking
before about the you know, a great way to start
the conversation if you want to, or to just get
down to the straight biology of it. As farms, if
you grow up on a farm, then you know a
lot about sex pretty early on. Yes, because the animals

(01:19:47):
are doing it. This person says, bulls jump cows at
mating mate, not generally cows jumps.

Speaker 3 (01:19:54):
Yeah, mate, I was saying.

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
From the kids perspective when I said that before, Hey daddy,
why is that cow on the other cow's back? What
I wasn't I'm well aware Greg him up at it's
the bulls doing that whatever, But I was just saying
that a kid wouldn't know that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:10):
All right, we know how it works. I let that
weeks ago. I'm pretty sure I know how it works. Yeah,
I read it in a book somewhere. I'm pretty sure.
I'm pretty sure that's the ball anyway. So anyway, I
would love to hear your call, your thoughts on this.
E one hundred and eighty ten A pure How are
you all right? Just having a little problem with the phone?

Speaker 16 (01:20:31):
There?

Speaker 3 (01:20:32):
Can you do that one? Where's my phone? How are
you sure?

Speaker 11 (01:20:37):
Guys?

Speaker 7 (01:20:37):
How are you?

Speaker 18 (01:20:37):
I just want to point out, based on the last caller,
I have seen bulls jump balls though?

Speaker 2 (01:20:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you for saving us on
that week Okay, yeah have you ever seen cows jump balls?

Speaker 7 (01:20:50):
Though?

Speaker 18 (01:20:53):
Well, I'm from uplaws made anything that happen, but I
haven't seen it. Hey, god, it's just just just to know.
I was involved with a wee project called The Big Weekend,
and I heard one of your callers talk about sitting
in the car, and I had the privilege of working
with I think one of your broadcasters, Petra Vegas, a

(01:21:13):
very very talented woman.

Speaker 11 (01:21:15):
Yeah, and we did a thing.

Speaker 18 (01:21:17):
Yeah, yeah, great news, Geander. We did a thing called
The Big Weekend and we just found it really worked
because of that dynamic of you're not steering the kid
in the face. And it's actually on Spotify and it's
free and it may be something that you'll callers could
utilize just to start the conversation. It is quite long,
so if you're going to go around to McDonald's you're

(01:21:39):
going to have to go around fifty times. But it's
like it's like if you're going to Totle Paul and
say and you warn them and say, look, we're going
to play this, you get a chance to talk about it.
And yeah, it was it was a really good project,
which I think could be helpful to some of your listeners.

Speaker 3 (01:21:56):
So it's a podcast, the equivalent of a podcast, feel.

Speaker 18 (01:22:00):
Yeah, it was actually in the old days it was
on CD. So it's just it was through the parenting
place in Green Lane and we made this recording and
gave it out to people and the big weekend and
it's this isn't a cell bro, It's free, you know,
so you can just download it off Spotify. I haven't

(01:22:21):
listened to it first yourself, but would have been really
helpful in my day, but could be really helpful for
some of your listeners.

Speaker 4 (01:22:30):
Yeah, I'm just having a look at it out here. So,
I mean there's a whole branch of chapters if you
were or areas that you go through. But what has
Sek's attitudes about seeks? Let's talk about porn? How do
you how would a parent bring that up if they're
going to put that on the car. What's the intro
that ideally the parent would give thee kid before they
hit play.

Speaker 12 (01:22:49):
Well, if that.

Speaker 18 (01:22:50):
Depends on the relationship, I think, But I think you
just have to be honest with kids and say, look,
this is something we have to go through. It's based
around keeping yourself safe. I've found this bit of information
that could be helpful. We can stop at any time,
but you know you mean to me, you're awesome, but

(01:23:11):
so we need to have this conversation and I'm shouting McDonald's.

Speaker 12 (01:23:15):
Let's go.

Speaker 3 (01:23:18):
From then on.

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
The two things are associated. I can imagine a step
further than that, because basically, you've decided on someone describing
it in a way that you approve of. You're there
beside them in the car, so you can answer any
questions as it goes. And so it's kind of I
guess lowering making it easier for yourself. Yeah, I mean
you could record yourself doing the chat and then and

(01:23:42):
then play it back to them.

Speaker 3 (01:23:43):
Yeah, well it would make it easier.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
Yeah, But it is interesting because there's someone seeing like
humans have been doing this for a very long time.
You know, we've been Homo sapiens for nearly three hundred
thousand years that this person.

Speaker 3 (01:23:54):
Do you actually really need to have the chat about it?
It is interesting that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
We've got to the stage where we're so awkward about
it because we're biological. We're not so different from the
cows and the bulls, are we?

Speaker 11 (01:24:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:24:06):
Can't we just say this is how it works?

Speaker 6 (01:24:08):
All right?

Speaker 3 (01:24:09):
Where you go?

Speaker 4 (01:24:09):
Well, if we don't do it, that's the end of us,
isn't it. Oh eight one hundred eighty ten eighty is
the number to call Peel. Thank you very much, love
chatting with you. It's called the Big Weekend. Petre Vagust
and Peel is well on that. It's well worth checking
out if you are ready for the birds and the
bees conversation with your children.

Speaker 3 (01:24:25):
It is twelve past three.

Speaker 2 (01:24:27):
This Texas says all cows or Cattler bisexual Matt get
with the program.

Speaker 3 (01:24:31):
You big it? Okay, you can think there, you know, afternoon?
It is quarter past three? Was that Pete and Peel, Peel?
It was I was talking to a celebrity, Yeah, big fan.
I didn't even know.

Speaker 9 (01:24:44):
No, me neither.

Speaker 4 (01:24:45):
I think we both can you figured it out at
the same time, Pete and Peel, Peter and Peel, Yeah,
he's a good meg, great new Zylander. Oh one hundred
and eighty ten out of eighty. We are talking about
six education. The Education Minister, Erica Stamford, has opened it
up for consultation on what the framework is, but we've
taken it a bit wider that we want to hear
your stories about how you talked to your kids about it,

(01:25:06):
and how your parents talk to you.

Speaker 2 (01:25:08):
And I'm taking absolute grilling here. People met you muppet
Bulls can't jump cows. They can barely get all three,
all four legs off the ground. Yeah, okay, we know.

Speaker 4 (01:25:20):
We know how it works on the farm with balls
and cows and bees and birds and sheeps and others.

Speaker 3 (01:25:25):
With a run up you we're going to a ball
could get over a cow with a big enough down
a hill, big enough run up. I've seen the powerful
legs going. They could jump a cow.

Speaker 4 (01:25:34):
I reckon, they could get at least half a meter.

Speaker 3 (01:25:37):
And you have you have you done the chat to
four kids?

Speaker 6 (01:25:42):
I haven't done the chat, but they gave me the chat.
I mean they're adults now. My grandchildren are about the
same age as they were then, but I picked them
up from school. We had four children very close in
age at the same primary school, and I was driving home.
They were on the back seats and I heard where

(01:26:03):
the eldest were twin girls. Heard the girls discussing their
lunch time chat and it was all sort of very quiet,
just chatting in the back seat. And one of them said, oh,
so embarrassing. Mum and dad have done it four times.

Speaker 3 (01:26:22):
Wow.

Speaker 6 (01:26:23):
And their brother, who was sixteen months younger, said, don't
be silly, No, only did at three your twins, because
I was laughing, and that was their six education. No
idea where it came from, but from well, from the
playground obviously, right.

Speaker 2 (01:26:44):
And you think there was a good place to hear
it or do you think there would be better.

Speaker 6 (01:26:49):
I never discussed it, never went any through that, and
we were very open at times about what I've had.
Their questions would answer it, but I just thought that
the innocence innocence.

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):
Of it was just, yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you, Thank
you so much for your call and appreciate that. Uh Tom,
you want to take back to the farm.

Speaker 7 (01:27:10):
Make it back to the farm hair gum, very good. Hey, look, sorry,
share a story you said before that time. You know
farmers are lucky. They get to see their kids will
sort of, you know, seeing it all the time, what's
going on? Oh, we had a dog that got a
lot of bitches at the time come around and I
just always just do the job in front of the

(01:27:30):
kids and it didn't worry me. And one day my
daughter was with me, my young daughter, and she said, Daddy, daddy,
what are they doing? And I said, they're making babies.
Bathe them there can they have little puppies And she
was over the moon, and then all of a sudden
her face was pale light and she looked in discussed
and turned around to me and said, is that what
you and mummy do?

Speaker 18 (01:27:54):
That's not all right?

Speaker 11 (01:27:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:27:56):
And he said no, exactly essentially, yes, pretty much pretty much.
That's out works. Oh good text, here are you like this? Man?

Speaker 4 (01:28:05):
I have worked on a farm for twenty years and
I've seen a freezer ball jump over a fence twice.

Speaker 3 (01:28:10):
Okay, there you go, so clearly they can get some air.

Speaker 2 (01:28:13):
So with downhill run yep, the right conditions, I think
a ball could jump over a cow. Yeah, it could happen,
but that's not what I meant by a ball jumping
a cow. It's good to put that one to bed though.
I think that's what we're all worried about. Thank you
very much to everyone who called and text on that one.
That was a great discussion. But coming up very shortly,

(01:28:36):
we want to have a chat about green washing. This
is on the back of glad You know the business
very well, Glad Rap etc. They have been stung eight
point twenty five million dollars in Australia after they made
up some lies about where their bags came from. They
said it was recycled ocean plastic and it was none
of the sort. So we're gonna have a chat to

(01:28:56):
consume in New Zealand very shortly. Is there anything more
dirty than green washing? I want to hear your examples
of it, because it's a revolting practice to play on
people's emotions and fears and make them feel like they're
doing something good. If they believe in that and they're
doing something good, and it turns out you're just lying
to them like this company did that.

Speaker 3 (01:29:16):
That is just so dirty certainly as dirty green washes.

Speaker 4 (01:29:20):
Oh one hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
But coming up very shortly, we chat to consumer in
z about dirty old green washing twenty past three, Matt.

Speaker 1 (01:29:32):
Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty on News Talk ZB.

Speaker 4 (01:29:38):
Good Afternoon twenty two pass three and let's talk about
green washing. This on the back of an Australian court
has ordered glad owner Clorox to pay eight point twenty
five million dollars for fossil more misleading representations about bags
partly made or of recycled ocean plastic. The offending garbage
bags were partly made of Indonesian plastic source from communities
that were miles away from any shoreline. To chat about

(01:30:00):
this more, we're joined by Rebecca Styles Consumer end Z
Investigative team leader Rebecca Good afternoon.

Speaker 3 (01:30:08):
Hi, Yes, any relation to Harry Styles?

Speaker 6 (01:30:12):
I wish.

Speaker 3 (01:30:15):
Hey bigger stars. What is green washing?

Speaker 14 (01:30:20):
So basically greenwashing is a misleading claim under the Fair
Trading Act. So, in particularly for greenwashing, it's a product
that makes itself appear better for the environment than other
similar products on the shelves.

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
And what are the punishments of a company is caught
green washing?

Speaker 14 (01:30:36):
Well, for New Zealand's penalties are actually quite light in
comparison to the Big Pine that Floric Scott. So under
the Fair Trading Act it's six hundred thousand dollars fine.
So there's quite light for it, especially for these big
multi national companies, and it's not much of a deterrent
to stop green washing. So we would just support a

(01:30:57):
regulator upping those fines. And upping the fines mean that
it's more rough while for their time and energy to
actually take these prosecutions, so that it becomes a bigger
de terrance for these companies.

Speaker 2 (01:31:08):
And is it prevalent in New Zealand? Are you seeing
more of it? Is it something that's that's growing as
a problem.

Speaker 14 (01:31:17):
In someway That feels a bit insidious because I think
any walk along the supermarket aisles, you'll come across sort
of meaningless terms things like green and natural and environmentally friendly,
echo sustainable, there's all sort of these environmental buzzwords but
are sort of not backed up or seem pretty meaningless
on some products. So it is around that it feels

(01:31:40):
like it's so much of it around at the moment
that it's almost, you know, I can't do the slice
of the trees type of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
Is there a version of green washing that isn't exactly illegal,
but it's still gross in a way like safe. For example,
you're on an airline and they're celebrating their greenness by
serving your food with bamboo knives and forks while you're
blasting aviation fuel on around the world flight, so they're
not it's like almost like a green distraction. It's like,

(01:32:07):
look at the way we're doing this over here, and
don't look at what we're doing over there very much.

Speaker 14 (01:32:13):
It feels very much like window dressing, doesn't it.

Speaker 6 (01:32:15):
Yeah, And I think uno a.

Speaker 14 (01:32:16):
Few years ago I wrote about Any Zealand for their
plant based cups, and that's not much good yet.

Speaker 6 (01:32:20):
When you're burning all that, really it's a bit of
a tot congestion.

Speaker 14 (01:32:25):
So it's very much tinkering out of the edges, but
not tackling the huge problem of what's being put in
still thing.

Speaker 7 (01:32:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:32:31):
Has it got to the point Rebecca where companies they
you know, the trust on from consumers to believe that
these companies are doing environmental good for the planet or
whatever they might be doing. But that trust is just
completely lost now and most consumers will look at this
stuff and say, I think that's probably nonsense, because I've
seen so many examples of that.

Speaker 14 (01:32:53):
Yeah, I mean you should be able to trust what's
on the label. You know, you expect a bit of
puffer eat with marketing and stuff, but essentially the essence
of what's said on products should be true and you
should be able to rely on it. And there has
been calls overseas for these green claims there should be
checked before they go on to market so that consumers
can be very assured. Because it's also a competitive advantage

(01:33:14):
if you're essentially misleading customers and earning more money on
the back of that misleading claiming. You know, it's an
anti competitive behavior. So it's good for other businesses and
for consumers.

Speaker 2 (01:33:26):
Because sometimes it seems to me that a company shouldn't
be allowed to continue. I'm not going to name the
name of it doesn't cause they get it wrong. But
there was a while back, and this isn't quite green washing.
I guess it's sort of a moral form of washing.
But you know, a free range selling eggs and saying
that they're free range and selling a whole lot of
eggs as free range, people are paying more for them,

(01:33:46):
and then there's an investigation and you find out though
it were never free range. Doesn't that feel like that
should be a company ending situation because you've lied to people,
people have paid money. It's come out of the consumers,
you know, pocket they thought they were buying free range
eggs because they care about that, they haven't. It seems
odd when you see a company continuing on they've paid

(01:34:07):
a fine.

Speaker 3 (01:34:07):
But do you see what I'm saying?

Speaker 14 (01:34:11):
Yeah, sermily erodes trust and I certainly would as a customer,
would stare clear of that particular brand. But yeah, the
marketplace is such a you know, the ethical concerns, what
ingredients come from, supply chain, The marketplace is just so
complex for consumers at the moment, and we just don't
have the time to stand in the aisle for ours

(01:34:32):
to unpack all of these claims. So it just makes
it so much more important. You know, if things were
checked before they went to the market, it would make
life a lot easier for everyone.

Speaker 4 (01:34:40):
I think what would be a fair punishment for those
companies found green washing and making up you know, effectively
they are lies. What would be an appropriate punishment in
New Zealand? I mean, could it get to the point
where you take that product? Supermarkets are forced to take
that product off off the shelves for a week, maybe
a fine in.

Speaker 14 (01:35:00):
Proportion to the profit the company has made or for
that product, and those claims would be a good idea.
Certainly at the moment the six hundred thousand dollars is working,
so we would definitely support her a view of the
penalties of the FIR Trading Act going up quite substantially
to act as a deterrent, and I think this raising
the penalty would be a good encouragement to businesses to

(01:35:22):
look at how they're labeling their products and whether they're
being miss leading or not.

Speaker 4 (01:35:26):
Rebecca has been great to chat with you. Thank you
very much for your time.

Speaker 7 (01:35:30):
My pleasure.

Speaker 4 (01:35:31):
That is Rebecca Styles. She is Consumer Endz investigative team
leader and we want to hear your thoughts about greenwashing.

Speaker 2 (01:35:38):
Yeah, that's right, e te hundred and eighty ten eighty
and examples of it that annoy you because I've got
a few things where it may not be completely illegal,
but it's so clearly b es.

Speaker 3 (01:35:50):
What's going on? And look, I'm going to say right
off the bat that stupid stupid cardboard straws for drinks.
Get out? What is the point?

Speaker 12 (01:36:02):
Get out?

Speaker 3 (01:36:02):
As if that makes any freaking difference.

Speaker 4 (01:36:04):
In the world eight hundred eighty ten eighty. What are
the worst examples of greenwashing you've come across and what
should be the punishment for these companies that are accused
of this? Discussing greenwashing? Love to hear from you. It
is twenty nine past three headlines with Raylene coming up tasing.

Speaker 13 (01:36:24):
Us talks at the headlines with blue bubble taxis It's
no trouble with a blue bubble. The government claims to
have surpassed its target of having twenty thousand fewer victims
of violent crime by twenty twenty nine, reaching twenty eight
thousand from a twenty twenty three baseline. Northlands in line
for heavy wind and rain from three am tomorrow, moving

(01:36:48):
on to Auckland, Great Barrier Island and Corimandel Peninsula early
on Thursday. Physiotherapy New Zealands as letting physiopractitioners certify people
as fit for work without needing GP sign off could
save acc millions. A managered in a crash on Dunedin's
Brockville Road last month has died in hospital. Amman's due

(01:37:09):
in court next Thursday on reckless driving charges. The Education
Minister says there'll be an announcement soon on new school
property in Canterbury after news one hundred million dollars as
going into Auckland schools. Two high tech uncrewed vessels have
set sail in Auckland, beginning operations patrolling the coastline to

(01:37:30):
protect maritime interests and security, including stopping drug smuggling. Greg
Or Paul on why is super rugby player draft would
boost competition? Read the full column at Enzen Herald Premium.
Back to matt Eth and Tyler Adams.

Speaker 4 (01:37:44):
Thank you very much, Rayllan, and we're talking about greenwashing
on the back of Glad the company. They've been fined
eight point two five million dollars in Australia. They said
their products came from recycled ocean plastic bar.

Speaker 3 (01:37:55):
It was an ocean plus.

Speaker 2 (01:37:57):
Here's a mysterious text around greenwashing on nine two nine two.
Our company collects unused bits of our product from our
customers that they haven't used. They market the fact they
are proud that the unused product gets recycled, when often
it doesn't and ends up in the skip.

Speaker 3 (01:38:12):
I hate it. I have told the boss, but he
doesn't give a damn.

Speaker 4 (01:38:16):
Oh there is mysterious that is massive green washing.

Speaker 2 (01:38:19):
Some horrific green rushing going on. Just an example of
green washing and what I'm talking about. It can be
on a really really low level. It's in a hotel,
for example, when you see that thing, we are in
an echo friendly hotel. We take some sustainability seriously. So
don't so hang your tails off if you don't want
them to be washed, yep, and only leave them on

(01:38:40):
the floor of the bathroom if you do want them
to wash. It's like, that is rubbish. That's nothing to
do with anything. That's to do with you trying not
to have to clean as many towels as if that
makes any.

Speaker 3 (01:38:48):
Kind of different.

Speaker 4 (01:38:49):
That is the hotel saving money rather than saving water
or the environment.

Speaker 3 (01:38:53):
I read that sign.

Speaker 2 (01:38:54):
I go through and take every towel and the entire
place and have it on the floor in the bathroom
and all the sheets and the mattress.

Speaker 3 (01:39:01):
Make a point. Take that with your green washing, Dave,
green washing your thoughts?

Speaker 8 (01:39:07):
Yeah mate, well the best off? Can you stop talking
about the Wadden spoons and support because you're wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:39:14):
No, I'll talk about whatever I want, but you explain
it please what you mean? Okay?

Speaker 8 (01:39:18):
So Richard Branson did a study and he published it
that showed that when they came from cuttery to wooden
spoons from the UK to America, saved eight hundred liters
of fuel.

Speaker 2 (01:39:31):
Yeah, but that may maybe the case, Dave, But that
wasn't really the point I was making.

Speaker 3 (01:39:36):
I was making.

Speaker 2 (01:39:36):
It's kind of a funny situation when you're on a
plane and it's you know, you're traveling from to London
or something across and you're blasting out aviation fuel and
it's kind of a distraction thing. And I think you're
probably right, David, there is probably an eco justification around bamboo.
But can you kind of see My point is that
don't look over here?

Speaker 3 (01:39:54):
Look here.

Speaker 8 (01:39:56):
I see your point, And that's the same reason why
people don't look at electric cars.

Speaker 3 (01:39:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:40:00):
Yeah, you know, if you look at lytric cars literal batteries,
you know they're not green, they're not clean. That's dirty mining.

Speaker 3 (01:40:08):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:40:10):
Yeah, Like what you're saying, Dave, you're only looking at
one and now an element of it. So you really
focus on one element of it and say, well, this
is green. If it's coming from hydroelectric dam then this
ev is green. But you're not talking about how it
was manufactured, how how it came here, the fact that
there's a lot of coal that's still used in most

(01:40:30):
countries to fuel their ev so they eventually they're essentially.

Speaker 8 (01:40:33):
A steam and make the I for those cars.

Speaker 2 (01:40:36):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And the supply chain brings it all together.

Speaker 8 (01:40:39):
And what are you going to do with the reactors
when you finished with them?

Speaker 3 (01:40:43):
Yeah, exactly. You have to list the actuality of it.

Speaker 2 (01:40:48):
And so I guess that's what I'm saying, Dave, is
that you know you're sitting there feeling good about yourself
because you're using your bamboo nipe and fork, but you
actually have to realize if that, if you believe in
the eco thing, the very fact that you're flying means
that you don't care.

Speaker 8 (01:41:02):
Yeah, yeah, I believe the sponge alone.

Speaker 3 (01:41:05):
Man, you're quite enjoy the disposes. Anything wrong with enjoying
the spoon, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:41:11):
Much Dave, I ad met I did a bit of
a I did another bit of an unfair drive by
on the spoons.

Speaker 3 (01:41:15):
I get that. Look, I'm a huge fan. I'm a
huge fan of a wooden spoon.

Speaker 4 (01:41:19):
Yeah, I mean, you know, they do what I intended
to do. They just don't save thee.

Speaker 3 (01:41:23):
That's not true. I received some wooden spoonings in my time.

Speaker 2 (01:41:25):
I wasn't a big fan of you deserve them though,
well deserved old school form of punishment.

Speaker 3 (01:41:31):
Bill.

Speaker 7 (01:41:34):
Here we go, there you go, bells.

Speaker 3 (01:41:35):
Yeah, good, good mate.

Speaker 5 (01:41:38):
We've reached sort of like green wash and blah blah blah.

Speaker 17 (01:41:41):
Yep, recycled toilet paper.

Speaker 12 (01:41:44):
How do they do it?

Speaker 3 (01:41:46):
That's a good point. I haven't thought. Yeah, you're right,
it's a disgusting thought. I'm trying to look it up
as we speak.

Speaker 4 (01:41:55):
But it's a fair point, though, because quite often I
will go for the toilet paper that says recycled, and
I've never thought about it because I've been I'm just
a sucker.

Speaker 9 (01:42:03):
Well, I'm sure, I'm sure.

Speaker 17 (01:42:04):
I'm sure they choose sort of small villagers that probably
draw on a very high fiber diet, for example. But
then again, those poor villages probably couldn't afford it by
recycled toilet paper.

Speaker 2 (01:42:16):
I'm not even familiar with the concept of recycled talet paper.

Speaker 3 (01:42:20):
Really. I thought when you said that that that was
a joke. No, it's actually a thing.

Speaker 4 (01:42:24):
But does it I don't know if it comes from
the actual toilet paper. I think it comes from other
paper goods. It's not like you're fluttered down the duney
and some poor buggers pulling it out and right right
there can be reused.

Speaker 3 (01:42:35):
It's just other types of paper. Of course, it's not.
I'm so dumb. Sometimes I'm so dumb it surprises me.
But yeah, to be fair that as well. So it's
recycled toilet paper. No, it's recycled from something else into
toilet paper.

Speaker 4 (01:42:49):
Yeah, I think that's how it works. One hundred and
eighty ten eighty is the number to call hi.

Speaker 2 (01:42:55):
The paper bags that supermarkets have to be the most
pointless and useless item in the name of saving the planet.
They fall apart and get thrown out once at home,
and it takes more resources and energy to make the
paper bags. Meanwhile, the plastic ones get reused as bin
liners exciture where now they were brought in the supermarket.
And the other thing you see to say about plastic
bag is that that's actually locking fossil fuels in from

(01:43:15):
it's not being released into the atmosphere. They're not burning them,
they're locked in. But yeah, I order in my groceries
quite often and it comes with just such an absolute
avalanche and apocalypse of brown paper bags that I then
shuff strange in my recycling bin. There's absolutely no way
that there can possibly be good for the environment.

Speaker 4 (01:43:35):
They're not shying the paper bags, the stickster says.

Speaker 3 (01:43:37):
Guys.

Speaker 4 (01:43:37):
There's a major car company saying their car only needs
one point six leaders of petrol per one hundred k's
that's because the battery does eighty five k. Then it
needs one point six leader for the other fifteen k.
But the rest of the tank will You'd be lucky
to get ten liders per one hundred k out of
the tank. Massive green washing.

Speaker 3 (01:43:57):
The dirty green washes.

Speaker 2 (01:43:59):
Hey, guys, a recent study found that there are more
forever chemicals in cardboard straws than the plastic ones.

Speaker 3 (01:44:04):
It's all virtue signaling. Go figure, cheers, whirzled.

Speaker 4 (01:44:07):
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. What is the
worst example of green washing you have come across? Love
to hear from you? It is twenty wonder four.

Speaker 3 (01:44:14):
They don't recycle the toilet paper and use it again
the bad stuff. Come on, you idiot, what does that job?

Speaker 1 (01:44:24):
Matt Heath Taylor Adams taking your calls on eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty. It's mad Heath and Taylor Adams
afternoons news talk.

Speaker 4 (01:44:32):
It is eighteen to four and having a great discussion
about the worst examples of green washing that you have
come across.

Speaker 2 (01:44:38):
The Ben's claiming our entire country is a green washing operation.
How about the government telling companies to lower their common
footprint promoting international tourism.

Speaker 3 (01:44:46):
How about the bloody jet fuels? Keep quite about that.

Speaker 2 (01:44:50):
Yeah, we need we need as many people jetting here
as we ring a man, Peter, you want to talk
about plastic chopping boards.

Speaker 20 (01:45:00):
No, this is plastic recycled plastic boards for using. And
so you've been furniture in various things. Ivent had a
guy come and try and sell me some from manufactured
in Australia using New Zealand waste. Delved into it, asked,
well are we shipping New Zealand waste to Australia to
be then manufactured with colfer power and DA da DA,

(01:45:23):
And he said, well, it's only three percent New Zealand waste,
the rest of the Australian waste. And then I said,
so then you're shipping it all the way back to
New Zealand. He goes here and tried to make it
out that it's from New Zealand manufactured waste. Got another
one where a guy tried to sell me recycled plastic
boards manufactured in Europe and with cradle to cradle certification.

(01:45:49):
Then I asked, well, where can these things be recycled?
And then when he delved in it, when asked a
few questions back at his office, Oh, has to go
back to Europe.

Speaker 8 (01:45:58):
So really, is that really really green?

Speaker 13 (01:46:04):
No?

Speaker 20 (01:46:04):
No, So you've got to watch You've got to watch
all the certifications. They might have all the ticks and
boxes and certification.

Speaker 6 (01:46:12):
Half of it's.

Speaker 18 (01:46:13):
Bullshit when you delve into it.

Speaker 20 (01:46:14):
Another one that's another picking boards and things that are
fully recyclable, but you delve into it, we can they
be recycled. They can't be recycled in New Zealand. Another
one was China. So that's just rife through that sort
of industry. If you're going shopping for recycled plastic boards
or these amitation timber type boards everywhere.

Speaker 2 (01:46:38):
Yeah, I mean that's the totality of it, isn't it.
Because you can find to ter avertise your product. One
thing you go look at this line here, it's this
you know, and this one that you know. They were
saying that it was ocean plastics. They were making it
with yeah, and then they locked into it and it
was an ocean plastics. So then they tried to try
to claim ocean bound plastics. And so they've made the

(01:47:00):
assumption that these if they hadn't well, they haven't made
the assumption. They've made the claim that if they hadn't
grabbed these plastics, they would go to the ocean. But
you need to look at the whole thing, and that
example there, or the example in EVS, you have to
list absolutely all of it. But in green washing, they'll
find two or three little examples that fit the narrative

(01:47:20):
that it's green and absolutely ignore all the other parts
of it that you know. And that's really the problem
for a consumer because how are you supposed to unpack
all that.

Speaker 4 (01:47:30):
It's like this product that consumer called out some time ago,
but the wipes, and it's called Earth Smart and it
says it made with ninety nine point eight percent pure
New Zealand water, and wipes are made from plants, not.

Speaker 3 (01:47:44):
Plastic, so all of that looks good. It's called Earth Smart.

Speaker 4 (01:47:46):
It's made pretty much just water, and it's made from plants.
And they didn't make a claim that it was biodegradable,
but clearly it wasn't. But when you see it's made
from plants not plastic, you think cool, that's going to
break down.

Speaker 3 (01:48:00):
This product doesn't break down.

Speaker 11 (01:48:01):
Yeah, you know?

Speaker 2 (01:48:03):
And okay, good one, Mark, I have been green whiteing?
Have I been green washing when I've been cleaning out
my bond for years?

Speaker 11 (01:48:12):
Mark?

Speaker 9 (01:48:13):
Well you have?

Speaker 3 (01:48:13):
I guess you have been green washing to an.

Speaker 4 (01:48:15):
Extent in a way, in a way yeay, environmentally friendly
somewhat imagine, guys, only a true eco logic grinds my
gears regarding green washing. How can a place be called sorry?
How can a place call them echo when all they
use is a couple of cleaning products.

Speaker 3 (01:48:32):
That's exactly what I'm talking about, Sharon. They just described.

Speaker 2 (01:48:35):
They grab two things and describe it and then claim
that the whole thing is eco. This is another one here.
Combustible compostible coffee cups can't be composted unless sent to
a commercial composting facility, which is not a service available
for curbsite rubbish collection. So we used to recycle our
coffee cups. But now we can't put those cups in
the recycling bin, so they just have to go to landfill.

(01:48:57):
But you can still claim that they're compostible coffee cups
because technically they are compossible. The fact that it's not
practical and it won't happen is.

Speaker 3 (01:49:07):
By the bye exactly, guys.

Speaker 4 (01:49:10):
There is a lot of sprays in the market that
claim to be planet conscious and nature inspired. It's just
a load of absolute hogwash. There's nothing nature inspired about them,
and they certainly aren't planet conscious. It's just buzzwords and
it doesn't mean anything.

Speaker 2 (01:49:27):
What's that guy talking about, You're supposed to drink the
bone water water. I don't think that's true. I don't
think you are supposed to drink the bon water.

Speaker 4 (01:49:33):
And it's a brave move. If you want to do it,
no one's stopping you.

Speaker 3 (01:49:36):
It's definitely not good for your environment. I don't imagine.

Speaker 4 (01:49:38):
Oh, eight hundred eighty ten, Acy, what is the worst
examples of greenwashing that you have seen?

Speaker 3 (01:49:43):
Love to hear from you. It is thirteen two four.

Speaker 1 (01:49:47):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends, and
everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons used
talk z EDB News Talk ZEDB.

Speaker 4 (01:49:57):
Good afternoon. We're talking about greenwashing. It's on the back
of glad You may know the company, well, they make
glad rap among other products, but they got stung in
Australia to the tune of eight point two f five
million dollars. One of their products said it came from
recycled ocean plastic, but after investigations, instead the products were
made up of about fifty percent plastic waste that had

(01:50:20):
been collected from communities in Indonesia with no formal waste
management system. The communities were up to fifty kilometers from
the sea, and the company used non recycled plastic processing
AID and dies. So the investigating authority over in Australia said,
I quote claims about environmental benefits mattered to many consumers
and may impact their purchasing behavior. This was clearly a

(01:50:44):
missy misleading statement and we're glad that they faced this
particular fine.

Speaker 2 (01:50:49):
Is it like everything you have to look across the
totality as saying before, and do you have to look
across the totality of your life as this Texas says Brendan.
Thank you the reality is to save the planet, we
need to go back and live in caves. Everything we
do is affecting the planet. So even the greenies use
products that affect our planet. It is interesting, you know,
you talk about the totality of evs and it doesn't

(01:51:11):
stack up. You know, you talk about the totality of
the cardboard, you know, the brown paper bags, and you
start to have to take into to account the processing,
the transport, the lack of reusing them.

Speaker 3 (01:51:24):
You have to go through the whole thing and take
a list the energy use for the million that you
get from the supermarket. But do you have to do
that with your entire life?

Speaker 2 (01:51:32):
So you can walk around and you can go look,
I'm drinking a coffee out of a combustible coffee cup.
You know, a previous text has said before that, you
know there are problems with that to start with, but
that doesn't mean much. You know, if you are claiming
to be or feeling virtuous around your sort of carbon footprint,

(01:51:52):
if you then when the opportunity comes up, blast yourself
a trip to Europe for the holidays or you know
a famous conversation that either ones had nip off g
for your holidays.

Speaker 4 (01:52:03):
Yeah, so you do one trip to Europe and then
the rest of the time you have to go live
in a log cabin and don't buy any thing.

Speaker 3 (01:52:08):
And I think.

Speaker 2 (01:52:12):
If people are going to list off the totality of
everything they do in their life, I think there'd be
a lot of people that claim to be pretty green
that would realize that they're actually no better than anyone else.

Speaker 11 (01:52:21):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:52:22):
This textas says Hi Matt and Tyler are used to
eat for a farmer back in the eighties who had
a fruit and veggie stool and they sold free range eggs.
They had a dozen chucks running around the yard, but
ninety percent of the eggs came from a battery hen
farmer up the road. They used to laugh their heads off.

Speaker 3 (01:52:38):
Bloody scammers. From Matt, It's rough. It is very rough
in New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (01:52:44):
They have an obligation as a polluta to either reduce
or pay for their admissions. They have a scheme when
you book that you can offset your own emissions to
be a green person. Feels good, then you realize you're
just paying their bill. No extra trees or offsets are
purchased than when they have to do legally anyway, then
they would have to do legally anyway. I'm not one
hundredercent sure of that stuff, but you know, I'll take

(01:53:06):
you on your face value on that yep.

Speaker 4 (01:53:08):
And Neil says, it's just comes through. Let me grab it,
high leads. I was looking over the blurb of a
carton of oat milk one day and it wakes lyrical
about saving the planet oats growing right here in New Zealand.
The legends at the bottom said made and Sweeden not
organic either, so we can use the picture. The energy, use, chemicals,

(01:53:30):
machinery and shipping involved laughable, really, although the product itself
is quite tasty from berry.

Speaker 2 (01:53:35):
Does there need to be some kind of judiciary of
a panel of twelve experts that sit down and actually
rate it and actually cut through the double speak and
such around claims that people make in terms of green washing,
because it seems what happens here, like in this one,
you have someone that says that they're making their rubbish

(01:53:57):
bags out of ocean plastics. So you just picture it
and you go, oh, yeah, that massive plastic island that's
out in the middle of the Pacific. They're grabbing those
and they're too minute plastic bags. What a fantastic thing
to do, But you actually have to investigate that before
you find out it's wrong, and should it be the
other way around. You have to prove your green claims
before you can put them on your product. Well i'm

(01:54:19):
glad you like you do with you know, drugs.

Speaker 4 (01:54:21):
Yeah, well I'm glad you've said that, because by twenty
twenty six, there's going to be a European Union wide
ban on generic buzzwords like ECO that will come into
into forcing companies wanting to make those claims about the
sustainability credentials of their products will need to submit evidence
to an approve certification scheme and panel. What that means

(01:54:42):
is is a shopping You're able to shop with confidence
because you know that everything that ended up on the
shelves has been veta vetted if they say ECO.

Speaker 5 (01:54:49):
So there you go.

Speaker 3 (01:54:50):
You should go work for the European Union.

Speaker 11 (01:54:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:54:52):
Yeah, that makes me disgusted at my idea reading that. Yuck,
that sounds like a horrible, horrible, horrible kind of red
tape nightmare.

Speaker 4 (01:55:02):
You don't like that to at a scheme that's just
tying things up on a lot of red tape.

Speaker 2 (01:55:07):
Hi guys not allowed plastic bags as a customer, but
their retailer can purchase plastic bags and put their products
in them onto the shelves, which is just a joke.

Speaker 3 (01:55:15):
I mean, it is an.

Speaker 2 (01:55:16):
Interesting thing when you're carrying out a whole potal, big
plastic pottle of dishwashing powder and you're carrying out in
a paper bag.

Speaker 19 (01:55:26):
Ah.

Speaker 2 (01:55:27):
Anyway, let's put this topic to be Thank you so
much for listening to Matt and Tyler Afternoons. The complete
show podcast will be out in about half an hour.
In case you missed anything on sex ed, facial recognition tech,
or green washing. We had some great calls. See tomorrow
for another edition of Matt and Tyler Afternoons on z B.
The Great and Powerful Heather d See Allen is up next.

Speaker 3 (01:55:48):
Until we see you again.

Speaker 19 (01:55:49):
Give them a taste it keiw for us, it's a

(01:56:10):
fucking flows to bring.

Speaker 1 (01:56:24):
For more from Used talkst B, listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio

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