Full Show Podcast: 16 July 2025

On the Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons Full Show Podcast for the 16th of July, KiwiRail has announced all its staff must declare use of prescription and over-the-counter meds, so it can assess safety impacts. Matt and Tyler asked shift working listeners how they cope.

Then, Matt wrote a rant in the middle of the night about how whingey we are in 2025, when in reality we have so little to complain about.

Get the Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons Podcast every weekday afternoon on iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk zed Be
follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, are you great, New Zealanders And welcome to Mat
and Tyler Full Show Podcast number one six two for
the sixteenth of July. It's a Wednesday. The year is
twenty twenty five, and we had a deep two hour
discussion that just went on and on, but in a
good way. Yeah, about the meaning of life.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Really, it was after a mess of rent that you
wrote at about three o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, it was a huge rent about you know, the
struggle of humanity and how we complain about nothing in
this day and age. Look at it. It's a challenging
one for our management, who don't really like us talking
deep philosophy on the show, think it very anxious, But.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
We love it. Yeah, all right, I'll tell you what.
Stay tuned for a great story from Matt Heath. It
features Karl ubbo Bahn and some champagne, lots of champagne
and zop Claim.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
And Laura McGoldrick and Los Angeles and.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Holly Scandalous down Load. Subscribe, give us a.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Review and give them a test.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
A GIMMI al right, love you right by big.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Stories, the big issues, the big trends and everything in between.
Matt Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons News Talk said.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Be welcome into today's show Wednesday, the sixteenth of July.
I hope you're doing fantastic. We ivy you're listening.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, big hello to all our new listeners and the
listeners that have been with us for a while. It's
so good to have you for another three hours.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yep, we love you.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
And what if everyone listens for the whole three hours?

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, we hope you do. You should do, because it's
a doozy of a show today, as it always is.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Just sit down, turn the wireless on on your table,
and steer at the radio for next three hour.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah, good old Matt and Tyler and your eel. Hey
after three o'clock, this is going to be a good chat.
Singer and actress Suki Waterhouse she suffered hernia because her
pants were so tight.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, we want to talk about fashion idiocy. I mean
that is humiliating. We're in pants so tight that they
give yourself a hernia? What an own goal? What a
muppet show? So we want to talk about fashion to
see yours or others. Have you been a fashion victim?
Have you worn something or done something to yourself to
look good that has caused you damage? Or do you
know someone that has? I mean, what does it say

(02:24):
about us that we wear pants so tight that we
give ourselves hernias?

Speaker 4 (02:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:27):
I mean high heels have joined the chat, haven't they?
On this one?

Speaker 3 (02:30):
High heels are a massive one. I don't understand them.

Speaker 5 (02:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
But also bleaching you here, I've bleached my heir to
the point where we've had ball patches coming. Let's look terrible.
You know, we do crazy, crazy things. What's wrong with us?

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yeah? That has got to be your fascinating Chad. After
three o'clock. After two o'clock, Matt Heath has a rant.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, it's a long rant. It's a long rant. At
what time I doing that? Two o'clock, two o'clock. So
I watched this Complete History of Humanity video, And you know,
I've read a bunch of history of humanity in my life.
I've got a degree in anthropology, so it's an area
I'm interested. But I had this revelation and so I

(03:11):
got up in the middle of the night and I
wrote this rant, and I want to share it with people.
It's long.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
I've heard this rant.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
It's long.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
It is long. We can't cut it by a couple
of minutes. No, it gets a hit a steam up
towards the end.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
That's there's some sort of fever sweat dreams in the
middle that come in. But it's all got to be there.
It's all got to be there. And I just want
to hear people's thoughts on what I postulate in this
about the state of humanity.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
It's a hell of a rant.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
It's a state of humanity address. It's not a state
of the nation address. It's the state of humanity in
the year twenty twenty five address, and what you think
about where we're at.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
It's a big one. That's after two o'clock. Then we'll
get your thoughts on met.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
It's a terrible cell. Keep listening to two o'clock. You've
got this really long rant that someone wrote when they
were half asleep in the middle.

Speaker 6 (03:56):
Of the night.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
After we've got to hear that after going down a
YouTube rabbit hole.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
It is amazing. That's after two o'clock. But right now,
let's have a chat about malatonin and zoppo clones. So
Kii Rail they've banned around two thousy five hundred of
its workers from using those two drugs. The reason why
this is according to Rail and Maritime union health and
safety organizer. They said, and Karen Fletcher is her name.
They said in a recent mammout of staff that Kiwi
Rail workers in safety sensitive roles taking those drugs would

(04:23):
be stood down temporarily. They are worried that people using
sleep aids like those medicines are not fit for the
job in the morning after.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
I mean, zoperclone is quite full on. But malatonin get
out malatonin? Yeah, I Malotonin's out of your system in
eight hours. Have some bloody empathy for your shift workers.
Who is this Doctor Simon Ryder Lewis, occupational medicine physician.
The decision was based on advice from its chief medical officer,

(04:54):
doctor Simon Righter. Lewis obviously doesn't work shift ours, otherwise
he wouldn't think that banning malatonin was a good idea.
So what do you think about this band? It seems
a bit over the top to me. Maybe get a
new chief medical office. I to know, I'd need more
detail before I say that, But well, you know, how
do you deal with shift work. It's incredibly hard because

(05:15):
you're trying to sleep when you want to be awake
and when everyone else is awake, and you're trying to
work when everyone else is asleep. You need something. Yeah,
so you how have you dealt with your sleep work?
Are you shift work?

Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah? I mean so shift work. Night shift work is
absolutely we know how how bad it throws those people
around unless they have potentially something like melatonin to make
sure that they get eight hours when they're trying to
sleep in the day and try and get some sort
of balance going on. And I was incredibly excited. I've
never tried melatonin, but sometimes I have sleep issues, and
I was very excited when David Seymour said it's no

(05:45):
longer going to be prescription only you can get it
over the counter. I thought, hallelujah, this makes a lot
of sense. So then for KII Rail to turn around
and say, sorry, night shift workers, you can't have it.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, I mean, as I say, I don't know about
zopper clone. I'd like to hear from people that try
and get sleep with sopperclone. I don't think that's a
long term solution. I don't think you're getting the rapid
iye movement sleep from zopper clone. Yeah, but malatonin I've
used a lot when I've been overseas and it's been fantastic.
I've thought, I don't know if you want to use
it all the time. You know, you don't want to

(06:14):
become dependent on anything. No, but if you need to
be on point the next day to do some work,
then I don't think malatonin is I don't know nothing
to be too worried about it. Does that mean how
much stuff do we have to ban? I mean, I mean,
do we really need to worry about malatonin?

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to
call if you use malatonin. We're really keen to have
a chat with you if you've had issues with sleep,
and if you're a night shift worker, how do you
get that balance right? Really can to have a chat
with you. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is
the number to call.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
And if you want to borrow some I smuggled heapspeck
and from the States last time I was over there.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
You keep that quiet.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, I've got some one in now. But now Seamo
has made it legal and across the count, isn't.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
He yeah, right, it is twelve past one. Back with
your calls very shortly.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends, and
everything in between.

Speaker 7 (07:01):
Matt Heathen, Tyler Adams afternoons used talks, they'd.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
Be very good. Afternoon. We're talking about malatonin and also
Zoppo clone. So Kiwi Rail, according to advice they've received,
have told over twoy five hundred of its workers who
are in sensitive safety positions that they cannot have malatonin
and zopper clone. If they are found out to have
that and then go to work the next day and

(07:25):
operate machinery, they will be stood down.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
It's interesting to work out how you know that someone's
had malatonin. As this person points out, malatone is a
naturally occurring hormone. Qui Rail's policy would mean that the
entire workforce would be stood down. In most cases, the
added hormone has dispersed within three hours. Yeah, I mean
everyone's saying that definitely out of your system in eight hours.
But malatonin is just it just works in the penal gland, right, Yeah,

(07:51):
from what I understand, it created in the penal gland,
so it's created within you. And I think if you
take malatonin pills. You're just adding to that situation, aren't you.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah. We will be talking to doctor Alex Bartel a
little bit later on as well. He is a sleep experts,
so will get his views on the use of malatonin
and oper clone.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah. So darkness triggers malatonin, right when light fades and
I'm just looking us here in your pathway from the
eyes tells the penal gland to start converting the amino
acid tripped enough in serotonin into melatonin.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
Right, So you go, so naturally occurring. How do you
test for that? That's a good question.

Speaker 7 (08:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
And the pills, the pills just dissolve in your stomach
and then they're into the brain, so you're just sort
of getting it, getting it going. And I guess that's
why shift workers want to use it, because they're often
trying to sleep in the day when the darkness is
hard to come by and the penal gland is not
naturally making the melatonin you need to sleep.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
Yeah, And I would have thought having someone that's well
rested with the use of something like malatonin would be
far more preferable to having a worker turn up who
hasn't had a wink of sleep. And operating machinery. But
can you hear your views?

Speaker 2 (08:56):
The sex said, I have a feeling that smuggling heaps
of malatonin New Zealand might be illegal. Wow, maybe it was?

Speaker 3 (09:02):
Who did that me? Oh? Did you well?

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Whenever I'm over in the States, always bite some in
the past. Yeah, to back and try to sell it off. No,
I don't try and sell it off. Then try and
sell it off.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
to call. I'll tell you what. We'll play some messages
and then come back because I'll tell you what I've done.
Something stupid.

Speaker 5 (09:21):
Here?

Speaker 2 (09:22):
What you doing?

Speaker 3 (09:22):
I've got us in the wrong phone sitting Ah, So
I'm going to sort that out. Hand up? What an
idiot for a Wednesday? And then we've got full boards yet?

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Did you get enough sleep last night?

Speaker 4 (09:31):
No?

Speaker 3 (09:31):
I don't ownly some malotonin my system.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Because I can see here we're in the my costing
breakfast computer and as a result, we can't answer calls.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Dreams were free though.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
He doesn't take calls.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
No, he doesn't.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Okay, we've got to shut the system down and restart,
all right. If you can't get through, keep trying. We've
got full boards at the moment. I eight hundred and
eighty Lucky you're not operating heavy machinery. Tyler, Very lucky.
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Speaker 1 (10:47):
Putting the tough questions to the newspeakers the Mic, asking Breakfast.

Speaker 8 (10:51):
The government is considering encouraging domestic production of fuel.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
A new report.

Speaker 8 (10:56):
Suggests setting up special economic zones to do that. Shane
Jones is the Associate Energy Ministyle. So where would you
put these special economic zones, all.

Speaker 9 (11:03):
Obviously hailing from Lausland. I think one would be good
around Mars Points. Given let the Labor Party here in
particular sumber of doing closed down our Maston Point refinery.
That will stimulate a whole range of energy investments. And
why not Taranucky, because if we're ever going to have
to rely upon the importation of gas from overseas to
keep the economy functioning, and left to be in Taranucky
after just sitting to cancel the order gas industry.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
Heather du Pusyellen on the Mike casting Breakfast back tomorrow
at six am with the land Rover Discovery on News TOGSB.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
Twenty one pass through, and we are talking about the
use of malatonin and zopper. Clone Qui Rail has said
to a lot of its workers that you cannot use
those drugs if you're going to operate heavy machinery the
next day.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
But there you go.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
I was just going to say, if you're a night
shift worker, imagine there be a lot of people out
there that would absolutely rely on malatonin or something of
the like.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
It seems odd to me to lump melatonin and zopperclone together.
They're very different things. As everyone keeps saying, melatonin is
naturally forming in your pennial gland because it again your
penal gland. They see your penal gland is something totally
different to.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
There's any melotonin in the teaching plan. I mean, there
might be no doctor.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Sometimes it could seem that way. But the p I
n e A L gland penial. Yeah, okay, got to
know not penal tyler, grow up.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
Wow, this is an important subject, right. Oh, one hundred
and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
Welcome to show, Campbell.

Speaker 10 (12:29):
Good, how are you going?

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Very good? You're a shift worker?

Speaker 10 (12:34):
Yes, yes, over in Australia. I so do weekdays, weekend
nights and yeah for those nights, I'd love some melotone
like yet pretty pretty naked on the night shift?

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yes so? And how often are you working night ships?
What's what's what's your rotation? Campbell?

Speaker 10 (12:52):
So I work two weeks and I have a week
off so I do a week of days, yea in
week of nights.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
And how hard do you find it to get to
sleep in the daytime?

Speaker 10 (13:05):
Oh, it's pretty challenging sometimes, you know, especially you know
during the whole it's all of our schefts going from
straight off days have twenty four hour break straight on tonight's.
It does take your body, Yeah, a little bit to
you used to what are.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Your living arrangements if you don't mind me asking, do
you have do your flatmates, family? That kind of thing?

Speaker 10 (13:29):
So I actually fly up to the middle of the
pilbro in my work, but yeah, in perth of my
wife just that has an apartment.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah right, because I mean that's that's the tough thing.
When other people are living the normal shift of life
and you're trying to live the other shifts. It's pretty
hard to work around that, isn't it.

Speaker 10 (13:48):
Oh yeah, one hundred percent. That's a bit challenging, but
it certainly worth it.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
What's your current plan? Are you running blackout curtains or
anything like that? Campbell?

Speaker 10 (13:56):
So the camp I work as they do have blackout curtains,
which is good. That's still light always finds a way in.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yeah, Yeah, And I take it Campbell. If you're not
working with heavy machinery, you're doing, you know, a safety
conscious job. If you're working at the Minds or you're
working in that camp, does your employers have any issue
with with you guys using malotonin to try and get
some sleep.

Speaker 10 (14:22):
Well, melatonin, you can't get it at least you're fifty
five over here, right, So yeah, I wish, I wish
it was changed, which I could, because it would be
very helpful. But I think they are pretty strict off
on any other like sleeping tablets, because it, you know,
does affeat your REM cycle and kind of you'd actually

(14:42):
I think you don't have a REM cycle. You just
pretty much to go to sleep and wake up.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah. Yeah, if you find that that tightness can affect
your your work at all, Campbell, if you've experienced that
situation where you've gone, look, I don't have not taking anything,
but I'm also not getting any sleep and as a result,
I'm struggling to perform in a safe manner.

Speaker 10 (15:05):
They're pretty good at on it, Like if you are,
you know, they'll either go back to your own or
you know, I just stay in this room for a
couple of hours and you know, try and get some
risk because yeah, it's very very important sleep up here.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
Everywhere, so just to row back quickly. So you do
your work a fortnight at a time and then take
a bit of time off, and one of those weeks
is day. One of those is night. Did I get
there right?

Speaker 11 (15:33):
Yes?

Speaker 10 (15:33):
Correct?

Speaker 3 (15:34):
It feels like quite a crazy way to work, Campbell.

Speaker 12 (15:37):
There.

Speaker 3 (15:37):
I would have thought it would be that you do
your two weeks on the day, then you take a
bit of time off, then you come back to do
two weeks on the night shift. That would be better
for the body.

Speaker 10 (15:45):
It would be a lot better for the body. But
most places do like an eight and six roster, so
you work your days, come back, have your six days off,
then going to night's right, but it's just yeah, the
sight I'm at just two and ones.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, oh well, let's get this guy some some melatonin
for his pineal ground planned.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
Nicely done. You sound like a medical.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Professional pineal gland. How you pronounce that, Tyler.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Yeah, correctly, we do. We do right on this program,
not penal. Thank you very much, Campbell and all the
best over there.

Speaker 11 (16:14):
Mate.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
Nice to hear from you. Sandra. You're a shift worker
and you use some of these medications to get a
bit of shut eye.

Speaker 13 (16:22):
Yeah, that's correct.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
And what ones do you use? Malatonin or is it
the zopper Clone? I use the sopper clone every night.

Speaker 13 (16:31):
But only No, I'm lucky enough I only need to
use it maybe once once a month, twice a month max.
It's more for those turnover times when you're coming off
the weekend, no matter what day that is during the
week or on the actual weekend, and then you've got
an early start. You've got to get up at three

(16:51):
o'clock in the morning. So without the zopper Clone, sometimes
I'm tired enough that I don't need it. Other times
I know that I'm not going to be able to
sleep because you're waking up thinking you have I set
my alarm, so that's a twelve o'clock wake up. Then
you wake up at about past one, heavy lam going
gone off, and I've slept through it. So by time

(17:12):
you actually have to get up at three o'clock, you
did wake most of the night.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, so at least with.

Speaker 13 (17:18):
A zyper clone, I'm guaranteed five hours sleep. I take
it to at least six hours before I go to bed,
wake up in the morning. Your head just leap. You
can go to work, do your shift, and then come
home and crash out in the afternoon and ketch up
on the rest of the seven and a half hours

(17:38):
that you kind of need every day.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
Do you get the metallic taste in your mouth Sundra
that some people get with the Zoppo Clone.

Speaker 13 (17:46):
I've learned to drop it right down the back of
my tongue and it's not a problem.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah, Because every time I've taken Zopper Clone, and I
used to take it when I was flying a lot,
I'd wake up with incredibly dry mouth. It's horrific metal,
metallic taste in my mouth, and I wouldn't really feel refreshed.
It was a very strange kind of sleep. You'd been
knocked down, the time had passed, but you didn't really
feel that onto It is that your experience.

Speaker 13 (18:14):
I only need to ever take it half? Yeah, you
can't take a whole one, So only ever take a half.
And I feel better if I have it than what
I would if I've only had three hours sleep.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's I guess.

Speaker 13 (18:28):
That an eight hour shift after three hours hour of sleep,
it's really not safe.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Do you get the stress because if I've got something
important on and I need to sleep. I'm just lying
there going You've got to sleep?

Speaker 11 (18:41):
What are you doing?

Speaker 2 (18:41):
You got to sleep? This is disaster, absolutely, And I
guess that's upperclone deals with that, because the worst way
to get back to sleep is by hassling yourself that
you're not asleep, isn't it?

Speaker 13 (18:52):
Yeah? Yeah, I next what I say, I take it
an hour before I go to bed, because I'll know
that I'm not going to sleep that that particular day
or night. I'll take it an hour before I go
to sleep. Like I say, I'm out for five hours.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
You don't get any of the memory issues sometimes associated
was Zoppa clone, Sandra. I hear stories of people that
use sopper Clone and they might send a text late
at night after taking and then have no memory of
ever sending that text.

Speaker 13 (19:17):
No, I'm too visy sleeping my memory issues when I
haven't had enough sleep, and no sort of struggle after that.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yeah, what about Malatona and Sundra? Is Melantona do anything
for you?

Speaker 13 (19:30):
I got prescribed at once and I bought it home.
It's only two Mili brands, so I mean, really, what's
that going to do for me?

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, I'm not sure what you need to make it.
I think you can have it up to ten milligrams,
can't you.

Speaker 13 (19:43):
I don't know if we can get that here. I'm
not one hundred percent sure. Yeah, but it's more than
like I say, it's more that first first night for
me coming back on to early is that I struggle with.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, oh, good on, you keep up the good fight, Sandra,
and thanks for calling.

Speaker 13 (19:59):
Have a good day.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Yeah, get some sleep. That is Sundra and we can
you hear from you. On eight hundred and eighteen.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Eighty, I had an incident on a plane with a
bottle of champagne, some zopper clone and the Hollywood actor
Carlo barr Once.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
Do you want to hold that thought hold that this
is the sounds like a doozy of the story. I'm
not believe you should tell this.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, I'm not sure I'll tell that story.

Speaker 9 (20:19):
I'm not.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
Oh, you've got to tell this story. This is going
to be a doozy, right it is bang on half
past one coming up, met is going to share a
story about champagne, col urban and zopper clone and we're
also going to have a chattoo. Doctor Alex Bard or
he is a sleep expert, so we'll get his thoughts
on the use of malatonin and zopper clone as well.
Bang on half past one.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, and tell us how you deal with shift work,
if you're dealing with it or if you have, we'd
love to hear from your izo hundred and eighty ten eighty.

Speaker 7 (20:45):
US Talk said.

Speaker 14 (20:46):
The headlines with blue bubble taxis it's no trouble with
a blue bubble. The government is pulling the plug on
open planned classrooms, saying teachers report are noisy and can
create behavioral problems. The Education Minister says all bills will
have more traditional layouts and announced new classes coming for
two Wellington schools within a year. Meanwhile, twin Oaks Classical

(21:10):
Charter School has opened in Auckland's Green Lane, which offers
the Charlotte Mason liberal style teaching method. The farno of
a woman and two children killed yesterday when a car
landed in a pond at Wayouku south of Auckland, is
asking for privacy. Police are asking for sightings of a
brindled dog after a five year old was injured in

(21:33):
a dog attack near waypit O River north of christ
Church on Darnley Road. Another six hundred thousand dollars has
been released to help flood affected Nelson Tasman farmers, growers
and foresters. Sonny Bill Williams versus Paul Gallon assessing the
best verbal jabs ahead of the fight between the NRL Greats.

(21:53):
You can read more at enzid Herald Premium. Now back
to matt Ethan Tyler Addams.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
Thank you very much, Raylean. So, doctor Alex Bartle is
one of the foremost experts in sleep in this country.
He runs the Sleepwell Clinic and he joins us on
the line now, doctor Bartle, good afternoon.

Speaker 15 (22:08):
Good afternoon, Good to talk, good to talk to you.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
In simple terms, what does working night or rotating shifts
do to the body's circadian rhythms? The Cicadian clock? And
see what is the Cicadian clock. Let's go to base well.

Speaker 15 (22:24):
Circadian clock is based on the light and the dark,
which for thousands of years has been sort of twelve
years to twelve hours day, twelve hours night. And we've
mucked around with that in that we now live in
an environment where we change our day and night so
much so light suppresses melatonin and starts producing cortisol, and
that wakes us up, gets us going during the day,

(22:45):
and at nighttime when he gets dark, we produce melatonin
that reduces the ability to stay awake and we fall asleep.
And so when you start doing shift work, you're trying
to sleep when you should be awake, and you're trying
to be awake when you should be asleep. So it
does it's very difficult. Nobody really puts up with Cicadian
rhythm dysfunction for too long. It's always it's difficult to

(23:09):
sleep and difficult to stay away during the night.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
And so can that just be solved as simply as
blackout curtains or eye masks and you know, ear plugs.

Speaker 15 (23:21):
No question, if you come home in the morning and
it's daylight, keeping the place dark and wearing sunglasses on
the way home, for example, to block the light keep
it dark during the night during the day will help.
But the problem is that, you know, if you were
doing three or four weeks of night shift and just
spending nightshivity, you would soon train your Cicadian rhythm to
a night shift phase. But we don't do that. We

(23:42):
tend to spend you know, three or four nights maybe
on night shift, and then we go on to day shift,
or we have the weekends off, which means we go
back to a normal rhythm, and so it's just swapping
backwards and forwards. That's actually the difficult part of it.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
And how quickly does this sort of I guess you'd
call it sleep debt build up in terms of shift work.
So if you're losing your sleep, how quickly does that
start to affect your performance?

Speaker 15 (24:06):
Well, I mean even after one it's not going to
be quite as good as it would have been otherwise.
And in fact, the best sort of shifts are those
these days that are in and out of night shift
very quickly. For example, the police often run a twelve
hour shift, so they'll do twelve hours day and a
twelve hours night, but they do two nights, two days

(24:27):
and four off. That's not bad. They get their hours
in okay, enough for a week's work, but they are
only doing two nights and then they're on to four
days off, which is probably way to go.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
So, doctor, what's your thoughts about malotonin? It will soon
be sold over the counter without requiring a prescription. Were
you in favor of that when it's ann when it
was announced and is it a good way for night
shift workers to get some shut eye if they haven't
been sleeping well for a good week.

Speaker 15 (24:53):
It's probably nothing like as effective as keeping the room
dark and quiet and making sure that they're not working
during the day. It's not it works space. They're going
to have very low dose of melatonin anyway. Even the Cicadan,
the two milligram slow release products, even the manufacturers of
that initially said it didn't make any difference under fifty

(25:14):
five year olds. So it's a very weak it's not
really a sleeping pill. It's not a sleeping pill, and
you know, jet lag maybe for people who are pilots
or aircrew occasionally use it, but it's not that effective.
The most important part is light and dark. As I
said right at the beginning, that's the most powerful in

(25:35):
train of our circadian rhythm. Zopiclone, on the other hand,
which is the other pill that's been mentioned, is a
proper sleeping pill. And if you take that too close
to actually going to do some safety critical work, that's
probably not a good idea. But again, it has an
active life for what's called a half life of about
six hours, and so if you take it when you

(25:56):
want to go to sleep at sort of seven in
the morning, eight in the morning when you get home.
By the time you go to work at ten o'clock
at night, it's going to be well out of the
system by then. So again it's quite a short acting
but a good sleeping pill.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
So if it's if malatonin pills are quite weak. Were
you surprised that that Kiwi Rols put this ban on
the use of melatonin?

Speaker 15 (26:21):
Yes, I am, indeed. In fact, that's probably why the
government we're quite happy to put it onto open open
buying through pharmacies because really it's more placebo response rather
than that fantastically chemical response.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Because I think I think this is the case because
I've taken the malatonin a lot when I've been in
the States, and I found it very effective. But I
just wonder if that's because you just let yourself off
the hock. You know, you need to get some sleep,
because you know the day and you take the pearl
and you've pulled the curtains in your hotel room and
then you're just calm, you know, as you say, your

(26:56):
your corsole lever's lower and you go to sleep.

Speaker 15 (26:59):
I think that's a lot to do with it. And
also of course, when we're traveling a lot of the time,
we spend more time outside during the day, and outside
light is the most powerful and trainer. If you like
about circadian rooms, you know, if you go to the UK,
for example, the best thing you can do is spend
the first few days outside as much as you can,
and that will most quickly and train you so you
can start sleeping at night and being awake during the day.

(27:21):
It's the light dark cycle that makes a huge difference.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
Would there be a worry doctor? And I note in
this story that it mentioned some of the workers had
been used in the likes of zoppoclone for years. For you,
as a sleep expert and a doctor, would that give
you cause for concern if someone who's using it on
a regular basis for that long.

Speaker 15 (27:38):
Well yes I would. And the most concerning part is
if you're starting to need more and more of it,
which is so commonly happens. You start with half does
the job, and then you need one, and then you
need one and a half. That's the problem. People who
perhaps in their seventies or eighties, have been taking it
for decades and they take half a TI pill every night.
I've got no problem with that. It's not ideal, but

(27:59):
I'm not going to suddenly jump up and down about that.
But if you're a twenty year old and needing to zoppocla,
and there are many other ways in which we need
to get their sleep sorted out rather than taking zopoclone,
what do.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
We know about the type of sleep you get on
the likes of zopoclone or what's the other one, dimezepan
is That might have said that wrong, because when I
take it, I feel like, you know, I've been knocked out,
but generally wake up with a horrible metallic taste in
my mouth, in credibly dry mouth, and feel sort of odd,

(28:32):
kind of like my brain's been erased as opposed to
have been refreshed, if you know what I mean.

Speaker 15 (28:37):
Yes, I mean it does have different effects on different people,
but the majority, not all, but the majority of people
do get this metallic taste in the mouth. That's pretty common.
But you know, many people wake up in the morning
after zopoclone to feel fired in the morning. But there's
certain number of people yourself included. Obviously, it does have
a hangover sort of effect in terms of quality of sleep.

(28:58):
The zopoclone probably doesn't. There is a non benzodiazepin, so
it doesn't have some of the effects of diazepin, which
is a benzodiazepin. So in terms of impacting on sleep,
it doesn't impact greatly. It does reduce the amount of
ram and non rem sleep you have to some degree,
so your sleep isn't going to be quite as good
with any medication. But Zoppaton is probably the safest of

(29:21):
all the sleeping to two pills, but only I've taken
just occasionally for emergency.

Speaker 7 (29:28):
You might say, if we.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Flip this around and get from trying to go to
sleep to waking up, you say that natural light is
the best way. I was telling my partner because she
was saying she's feeling very sleepy. I said, try looking
up at lights. So do electric lights work as well
as as the sun for waking you up.

Speaker 15 (29:48):
Don't look at the light, don't look at the sun. No,
just generally ambient light in rooms less than a thousand lucks,
you know, lux measure of light, so something like in
my office here it's something like six or seven hundred lucks,
which I think is pretty average. Outside is completely different.
In the Auckland moment and sort of variously sunny and

(30:10):
a bit cloudy. It's probably something like sixty to seventy
thousand lucks. It's completely different outside, and that's what our
brain is for thousands of years. In the middle of summer,
it might go up to even to eighty to one
hundred thousand lucks. That's what our brains. What our brains
haven't been used in the past is glare. So when
we need to wear some protection, possibly is where it's clary,
so tilts, our buildings, concrete slabs, tarmacadam roads. What we

(30:34):
need where you go outside, which is much better for us,
is shaded blue, green life. She's going to walk through
the local park or gardens, No shaded, don't look at
the sun. But just being outside the light is completely different,
and it's a particularly game for the walk to you know,
green blue environment, which is our natural environmental colors. Anyway,

(30:56):
that's what suppresses melatonin, wakes us up and starts producing serotonin,
which makes us feel good. And the more serotonin we've
produced during the day by spending more time outside, that
converts to melotonin. So the more serotonin produced during the day,
the more melatonin it converts to at night and helps
us sleep. So when your mum said to you, you

(31:17):
know you've been out camping or tramping for a day,
or your sleep well might do because you've had lots
of fresh air. It's nothing to do with the air,
to do with low interesting.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
And so in the modern world, if say you work
in an office, you're working inside, then you should you know.
And some of us get up when it's still dark,
and we drive to work when it's pretty much dark,
and we go straight inside, and then we wonder why
we're so sleepy. What we need to try and do
is find would five ten minutes walk outside and the
natural light be enough to sort of get you serotoning

(31:47):
and melotonin and down.

Speaker 15 (31:49):
Yes, five or ten minutes is better than nothing. We
usually suggest half an hour would be a great time
to do that, and of course the more the better,
but half an hour is probably what we would usually recommend.
But as I say, if you can manage five or
ten minutes outside in a shaded, blue green environment that
side of just go for a walk through the local
park or whatever. If you can walk to work or

(32:11):
spend a bit of time outside, then you're quite right.
With many people, particularly in winter go from their house
into their car, which is in infecting doors, into their
office as I do. I mean, I'm in an office
at the moment, and it's in this relatively dim light.
We don't think it's dim, but it feel but it
is actually much dimmer. And I tried to get out.
I've just been out of the lunch time, so I've

(32:31):
just went for a walk. This at lunchtime, which is
the main time I can get outside. So summer's better
for that, but nonetheless spending bit of time outside really
helpful in shaded light.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Wow, thank you so much. It's very very interesting. We've
gone for ages, but we've got to go. But yeah,
thank you so much for that. There was a great chat,
no trouble.

Speaker 15 (32:53):
Thank you very anytime.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
Thank you very much. That is doctor Alex Bart, one
of the foremost experts in sleep in New Zealandy runs
Asleep Well Clinic, and I imagine he's been incredibly busy
over the past couple of years. Sleeps that's a major thing.
But we ken to hear from you. We're going to
pick this back up. I won one hundred and eighteen eighty.
If you're a shift work, have you relied on the
likes of Zopper Clone or Melantonin for that matter. This
is after Kiwi Rail decided to ban its workers using

(33:15):
those drugs, saying that it could affect them the next stuff.
They are operating heavy machinery, so can never chat with you.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
And I have decided to share my flight into Los
Angeles or the bottle of champagne and this Zopper Clone
and Carlo barn incident.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
Yes, that's coming up. It is good to two.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
You can't stop me now, so good.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
The big stories, the big issues, to the big trends
and everything in between.

Speaker 7 (33:40):
Matt Heath and Taylor Adams afternoons used talks.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
That'd be good afternoon. Stand by for Matt's carl Urbarnes
story that is coming up. But we're a little bit late,
so let's go and have a check to Glenn. Get
a Glenn.

Speaker 6 (33:53):
Tyler A Matt just on the in New Zealand rail
decision or.

Speaker 15 (34:01):
You know.

Speaker 6 (34:02):
To be honest, I was a large employer for a
number of years. We had a number of shift work
is in our business and whilst we also had a
drug and real drug and alcohol rehabilitation process that was
more about illicit drugs but over the counter is really

(34:23):
not something that should be in the purview of the employer.
And even if if you know zychoplane or whatever it is,
the other one.

Speaker 16 (34:34):
That that.

Speaker 6 (34:36):
You've talked about, that that's my prescription only that's a
decision of a doctor to prescribe that to a patient
for their requirements, and that should have nothing to do
with the employment situation of that person. And I just
I can't understand where New zealandrail are coming from with us.
It's just nuts.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, I mean, in their defense, if they've got advice
from a chief medical officer in this case, I think
it's doctor Simon Ryder Lewis, then I guess they might
be an illegal, illegally dodgy position if they don't take
that advice. So they get that advice, maybe they have
to they maybe have to suspend it for a while
until they get better advice. I don't know. You'd probably

(35:18):
know more than I would on that, Glenn.

Speaker 6 (35:20):
I mean, advice is advice. It's not a it's not
a compelling a compelling situation. They can take advice and
they can say, well, we've taken that advice, but we've
chosen to ignore that because it doesn't make any sense.
And the other thing is that as an employer, you've

(35:41):
got to be you've got to be thinking about the
well being of your employees and your team. And if
they're doing shift work, can they need malatonin for God's
take to get them to sleep, not that it apparently
doesn't have it long.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah, that's the money part of all this.

Speaker 6 (35:58):
Then then so but yeah, you know it's the half life.
As the sleepy experts just pointed out, the half life
of these drugs is is going to be out of
their system before there due to do their next shift.
So what's the problem.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
And as soon as you turn the lights on, it
starts getting created by your pineal gland. Anyway, So did
you when you were running when you had people on shift,
did you was there any advice you gave them or
was that something you talked about, you know, around how
people get to sleep or was that just left up
to their common sense?

Speaker 6 (36:28):
Well, no, no, we talked to our people about trying
to ensure that when they were going home after after
they had worked, that they that they had some time
to wind down and then get get into a sleep rhythm.
Make sure they had a dark room, and you know
if they had problems with that. To start with that,

(36:49):
we were compassionate about how long it took them to
get into that routine. Our shift work or our late work.
Our late workers were actually fifty two weeks of the
year working nights.

Speaker 11 (37:02):
Yeah, so they weren't.

Speaker 6 (37:03):
Swapping in an out. Yeah, they were hard caught night workers.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Yeah yeah, so sampires yeah.

Speaker 6 (37:11):
Yeah, well yeah, not quite. I just don't get where
new Zellar are coming from it. And to me, it
just smacks of idiocy.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
It's an overreach yere. It feels like you're so much
for your call.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Glenn.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
Yeah, choos, Glenn. I mean I was going to say, there,
if someone's on tremado or codeine and they're going to
operate heavy machinery, but then, of course your doctor is
going to give you that information. So you listen to
your own doctor. And the last time they gave me
a bit of zoppo clone and not one point did
the doctor say, hey, now make sure you don't drive
a digger the next day. It wasn't a problem because
it's out of your system by the n Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
But equally, mate, try driving a digger on half an
hour sleep. Yeah, you know, with no chemicals and vaults. Yeah,
that's not going to go well, that's not great as it.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
Yeah, right, going to play some messages bag very shortly.
It is eight to two.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Matd Heath Tyler Adams taking your calls on eight hundred
eighty eight. It's Mad Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons News Talks.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
Very good afternoon to you. It is five to two
and we have been talking about malatonin and zupper clone.
If you're a shift worker one hundred and eighty ten
eighties and number.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
To call David. You are a shift worker, Yeah, but
the shift.

Speaker 12 (38:22):
Worker who also a different shift patons actually, and.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
How do you deal with that? How do you get
your sleeping?

Speaker 12 (38:29):
Well, I'm a little bit different. I tried the malotonin thing,
and I just do coffee now and now before I
go to sleep, I'll get a bit of a higher coffee.
He do all the busy stuff and then just crash
out big time. Wow, before I get to sleep.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
That's so interesting because that's that's that's the opposite of
what I guess nearly anyone would say to do. But
it works for you.

Speaker 12 (38:46):
Yeah, yeah, it does. I've read about it. There's quite
a few people that actually do it on my shifts.
I did the malotonin thing for a little while there
and it was just a little bit too up and
downish to manage your sleep. So yeah, coffee seems to
be my little flavor of choice.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Wow, that that's really that's reallliant interesting and so and
you get now you're getting seven hours in, yeah, easily.

Speaker 12 (39:12):
So we do a three day, three night, three day
off shift, but quite often we get massed around in
between days and stuff. So yeah, and as long as
you're planning it, manage it yourself and talking about it
different things. But yeah, do you go.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Thank you so much for you call David. So we've
got to go because we're running out of time. But
there you go. There, flips it all on the head.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
And espresso before bedtime. Hell of a strategy.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
Now I haven't forgotten and the listeners haven't forgotten about
the story about Carl Urbaran and Zopper Clone and Champagne.
We're running it past legal as we speak, but we
are going to get to that coming up very shortly.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
Okay, Well, I'll share that in the next hour along
with my rant.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
Looking forward to this rant. This is going to be great, A.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
Long punishing rant on the state of humanity.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
Yeah, long powerful and that is coming up next. Stay
tuned for that. News Sport and weather on its way.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Talking with you all afternoon. It's Matt Heathen, Taylor Adams
Afternoons News Talks.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
It'd be hello, welcome back into the program. Fantastic to
have your company. As always seeven past two. Now, just
before we get into met He's phenomenal rands where promises
were made about a story.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
Okay, yeah, so should we put the sleep chat to
bide story? Yeap, just because I promised it, you did,
you know, And it's not the greatest story of all time,
but I said I would tell it.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Over multiple rap.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
There's a few people that want to hear There's at
least three people across the country that want to hear
the story. And that's enough. That's enough incentive for me
to meet to share the story. So I was flying
to the United States of America a few years back, yep,
and I was going over there to do some filming
on the Southern States of America.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
So I got on the plane and when I was
on the plane, I noticed my good friends Laura Mam
Goldrick was on.

Speaker 3 (41:01):
The plane, great person, great New Zealander.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah. Actually, I won't drag her into the story. Let's
pretend I didn't say that anyway, friend of mine. Let's
just call her Laura g. Now we'll call her el
mcgoldrooy smart she anyway, we got a bottle of champagne,
and she had a bottle of champagne, had a few drinks,
and then I got another bottle of champagne. And then

(41:25):
I took a few Zoppa clones to sleep, right, which
is exactly what you shouldn't do. Don't take it clearly, Seys,
do not take these with alcohol clearly. See it stated
you have to be an absolute more and to do this.
So anyway, I went to sleep, and then I wake
up in a bar in Memphis, and I'm just sitting

(41:48):
there and I turn around to everyone at the table,
I go, how did we get here? And they go,
what do you mean? How did we get here? And
I said, how did we get here? The last thing
I remember was on a plane. I didn't even see
you guys. And they said, oh my god, you haven't
said anything for quite some time. And and they said, okay,

(42:09):
do you remember going through customs at Los Angeles I
said no. Do you remember getting on the connecting flight
to fly down here? I said, no, connecting flight. I
didn't remember any of it. And then they said, do
you remember punishing Hollywood actor Carla Ubahn about your favorite
movie Dread? And I said, I met Carluba I said yes,

(42:34):
you were talking to him for ages, you wouldn't leave
him alone, and then you went silent, And now you're
just looking at us, going how did I get here?

Speaker 3 (42:41):
That is an amazing story. That's the real life hangover.
That is fantastic.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
So somehow that means must be quite a powerful drugs
drugs off the clone, because and we all know Champaign's
quite powerful. But it was the ability that I could
still function so enough to get my passport out and
get through customs, enough to not be thrown in a
cell or return to New Zealand, and enough to get

(43:07):
on in flight, and enough to punish a Hollywood actor
about one of his movies.

Speaker 3 (43:13):
Great movie, by the way, Dread, nice fantastic movie.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
But no memories were made until I was sitting in
a bar in a different city.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
So quite quite possibly, zombie Matt where your brain has
gone to sleep is a more competent met than you
are in general life.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Oh yeah, I mean I apparently I just slid through
customs in Los Angeles and they can be quite. They
can be quite.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
They can ask some pretty difficult questions. I mean, they
definitely ask where you're staying in such I.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
Know you spoke to Carl after that incident. Did he
ever mention? Did he ever say it was good?

Speaker 5 (43:47):
Check?

Speaker 2 (43:47):
I asked him about it, and he I don't think
he really even knew that it had happened. All that
I existed.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
We need to give you some more Champagne, zoppoer clne sound.
This is great. That is a fantastic story right there.
It is so there it is Yeah, got all right.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
So the moral of that story is don't mix zoppo
clone with Champagne.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
When Carl Wurbarn's around.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Although, to be fair, nothing bad happened. Yeah, but you
just don't want to be in a different country and
not know what's going on.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
Yeah, that's how power for that is Alatonin, not powerful,
upper clone powerful.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
That was a great story, right coming up very shortly,
look forward to this. Matt Heath has a rant, a
rant that he wrote in the middle of the night
after watching quite a powerful documentary.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
Yeah, that's right, a documentary on the history of humanity.
So I got up and I wrote a state of
humanity speech in the middle of the night that I'm
going to share with you. And I feel bad about
sharing that with you because I've just shared a punishing
story with you and now I've got this other thing.
So so that that's up next, and then we're going
to ask what you think about this, and then what

(44:50):
you think about the current state of humanity in twenty
twenty five.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
Yeap, it's a long rant. So put the kettle on,
put the kids to bed, and get ready, change channels
what you want to do? That is coming up very shortly.
It is twelve past too.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
You're home of Afternoon Talk, mad Heathen Tyler Adams Afternoons
call eight hundred eighty eight News Talk ZB News Talks.

Speaker 3 (45:16):
Be Welcome back into the show. Fourteen past two, right,
this is as this is It's Matt heath rant time.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, well, look, are we sure we want to hear this?

Speaker 3 (45:26):
Absolutely? We want to hear it. Okay, you've just printed
it off as well, and it's about fifty pages long.
The printer's run at it ink.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
It's two pages long. It's two pages long. Okay. I
wrote it in the middle of the night after I
watched this this this documentary on the totality of humanity.
Here we go, and that's how it starts. I watched
this video last night on the totality of human history.
I have a degree in anthropology, so this is my
kind of thing, all right. Anyway, it got me thinking.

(45:53):
I went to bed feeling both proud of how great
our species has struggled and succeeded over the ages, but
I also felt a great sense of shame and how
pathetic and wingy we have become okay, okay, yep, the
history of humanity, and maybe just a bit disgusted at
how ungrateful we are towards our ancestors and the hard
work they put in to get us here. It seems

(46:16):
more people than ever in twenty twenty five are winging
and acting like they have it bad. There is so
much complaining you would think that it was the worst
time in history. The truth is, we don't have it bad.
We have it very very good in New Zealand and
twenty twenty five, And you only have to look at
history to see that starvation, for example, has been a
major issue for all of human history until now. All

(46:37):
humans for hundreds of thousands of years just struggle to
feed themselves in their families. And still with all that work,
until recently, famines often hit whatever area you were in
and it would kill most people in the area. True,
that would just happen every twenty odd years, you'd have
a famine in Enzed in twenty twenty five. No one
has to starve to death. In fact, our biggest health

(46:59):
threat for our poorest people is obesity. Globally, in twenty
twenty five, more people die from over eating than under eating.
In fact, more people die of their own hands globally,
then stand at starvation at the moment. That is the
biggest change in the world in the last fifty years.
Right Yet, if you listen to the news, or social
media or some political parties, you would think that it's
the worst time to be alive in all of history.

(47:22):
With even the most shallow historical perspective, this complaining is
not only weak but also shockingly ungrateful. An attitude to
all that came before us, our ancestors who actually faced hardship.
You are onlylive today. You're only alive today because thousands
of your ancestors somehow didn't die when survival was nearly impossible.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
Yes, Matt.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Take this for example, Around seventy four thousand years ago,
a super volcano erupted in what is now Indonesia and
plunged the planet into a volcanic winter, wiping out most
of humanity. Nearly everyone on Earth starved to death. Only
three thousand total humans globally hung on by their fingertips.
They fought for survival so people can exist a day.

(48:09):
And what do we do with that gift? Complain about everything.
We are all related to those three thousand people who
hung on against all the odds. But most of us
behave in such an ungrateful fashion. I believe we disrespect
their struggle.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
Very true, Okay, Moore, they've paid one. There's more people
stand stand by, stand back. But this struggle is true
across time, Tyler. Take the Last Ice Age twenty thousand
years ago. Our ancestors hunted with spears and the snow
to get dinner, wearing nothing but animal skins as they
hunted on the eyes, trying not to freeze to death
or get eaten. By cave lines, and if you got

(48:46):
bitten or broke a leg, you were done. No surgery,
no acc no anesthetic, no painkillers, no pain killers until
eighteen fifty.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Even then it was very rare to get. The most operations,
if you can call them that, and history were done
in filthy, screaming pain, with almost no chance of survival.
Your ancestors went through all this to feed their offspring
so you could be born and sit there staring down
at your phone today, trying to find ways to make
up hardships and excuses so you don't have to do anything.

(49:15):
Very true about ten thousand years ago, the dawn of
agriculture brought permanent settlements. Right, it's a misconception that this
was a good thing. It actually made everything worse. Back
breaking work with tooth rotting diets, crop failures bringing famine,
and population density based disease outbreaks. That was hard work.
You may think you have it hard, but most humans

(49:36):
ever born didn't even make it to adulthood. People complained
today about their work being boring or not fulfilling their dreams,
which is pathetic. There was no social net for nearly
all of our history, no houses. It was do or die.
Whatever your job or life is, it is infinitely easier
and more comfortable than our ancestors in the fields who
survived to get you here had it, and we don't

(49:58):
appreciate it. What about fear? People say they are anxious today,
we have an anxiety epidemic. Grow up. In the twelve hundreds,
the Mongol invasions murdered and estimated twenty percent of the
global population, millions wiped out, his entire cities, burnt and
were raised from the map. People act like they are

(50:19):
hard done by Your city isn't likely to be burnt
to the ground by invaders? And everyone who wasn't slaughtered
being put into slavery?

Speaker 11 (50:24):
Are they?

Speaker 3 (50:25):
That was a bad time?

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yeah, this was the case across most of history, everywhere
in the world. Anxiety epidemic, you have to go only
go back a couple of generations to World War Two.
That's surely more anxiety inducing than whatever you are crying
about on social media now. People win twenty four seven
about healthcare in this country, long waiting times, not enough nurses, etc.
And the thirteen hundreds of the Black Death killed sixty

(50:46):
percent of the world's population. Horrible screaming pain in two years,
whole families, towns, and cities just dropped dead and disappeared.
Nearly everyone was dying and knowing knew why.

Speaker 13 (50:56):
Yeap.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
But despite all of this, your ancestors, barefoot, half starved,
and armed with nothing but grit, love for their families,
hard work, and luck, survived long enough to pass down
their precious genes to the point that you are lucky
enough to exist today. And what do we do to
say thank you to all those people before us and
their sacrifices. We complain about everything. We like to pretend

(51:18):
we have it hard to make us feel important, so
we have excuses for an action We need to be honest.
Everyone has it easier today than ninety nine point nine
percent of our ancestors. And if you live in New Zealand,
you have it better than ninety percent of the world today.
So if you're about to complain about something, or a
family member or a friend is about to commain, or
if you hear a political party or the media or
someone online trying to weaponize empathy for power by finding

(51:41):
things for you to complain about, instead of scrolling social
media finding things to feel jealous of, comparing yourself with
people that have more than you. Maybe take a second
to remember you are the miracle one thousand generations of
humans fort starved and bled for they would do anything
to live the life that you live, So shut up
and get on with it. Maybe instead of complaining those

(52:04):
who complain the lout maybe unless nearly there, nearly finished? Yeah,
come on, Maybe instead of celebrating those who complain the loudest,
we need to start shaming them as what they are,
and that is ungrateful winges. Maybe it's time for all
of us to stop being so pathetic and start showing
some gratitude to our thousands and thousands of ancestors that
did the hard yards to get us here by appreciing

(52:25):
what appreciating what we have working hard to achieve more
for our species going forward.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
Get that to the New Zealand here, or get it
to the government. Well done, So you wrote that at
three o'clock in the morning, screaming at the computer. Yeah,
but look there's there. I mean, you may have very
compelling arguments about what do we actually have to whinch
about in New Zealand and twenty twenty five? Are we
just such an ungrateful lot at the moment that as
you said our ancestors had to struggle for survival to

(52:51):
make sure that we were here, That I am here
right now. My ancestors had a hell of a tough time.
And now I'm getting a little bit anxious because I
see some bad things on social media.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
Absolutely, there's thousands of thousands of people that stood up
in a line behind you, went through the heart stuff.
So you're here and then we just sit and go, oh,
I'm not quite as well off as my friend on Instagram.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
Yeah, anyway, Oh eight one hundred eighty ten eighty is
the number to call. Oh, you're gonna love that text
Matt for Prime Minister one day, Mate, one day. I
eight one hundred eighty ten eighty. How do you feel
about that rant from Matt? And do you think we
are the most ungrateful we've ever been? In twenty twenty five?

Speaker 2 (53:32):
This is good from Tony Heath. Shut up, stop complaining.

Speaker 5 (53:37):
It.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
There's twenty two pass too.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred
eighty ten eighty on news Talk.

Speaker 7 (53:48):
ZB far out.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
The text have come through thick and fast, and if
you want to have a chat on this one O
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty and to the hundreds
of people asking, yet, we'll get that rant up online
so that you can send it to the right authorities.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Now, I just have to as I was reading at
because I wrote it last night in the middle of
the night after watching this documentary. As I said, as
I was reading it out, I noticed some of it
didn't make sense. Part of it was fever dream.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
A lot of support. Oh, one hundred eighty ten eighty
are we the most grateful generation that's ever lived, considering
what our ancestors had to go through? Eight hundred eighty
ten eighty is the number to call.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
The six is a good one, man. I was just
having a wings because my lunch came with ranch and
not Ali.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
That is annoying.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
That is in human that you should have to put
that kind of stuff a.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
Few poor bastards.

Speaker 6 (54:33):
Right.

Speaker 3 (54:33):
The phones is let up.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
That is the most elongated way to tell people to
harden up the day, Dallas, Welcome to the Matt and
Tyler afternoons on news talks, he'db how are you today?

Speaker 17 (54:47):
Yeah, good, good effort, Matt. I love your I love
your way that you think.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
Oh, thank you.

Speaker 17 (54:53):
I'll just say that that quest for more and more
is what has brought our human race to where it
is now. So that yeah, to always try and improve ourselves,
to always trying get more, to improve, to live longer,

(55:13):
to be more healthy.

Speaker 7 (55:14):
To be more this for that.

Speaker 4 (55:16):
So we've got an in built.

Speaker 17 (55:18):
Distatus satisfaction which has propelled our species to where we are.
So that will not stop, that will continue on, so
that there will always been an element of I want more,
I can improve more, I can.

Speaker 4 (55:33):
Yeah, I'm dissatisfied.

Speaker 17 (55:35):
And also, when we used to sit around the fires
in the prehistoric days, if you heard a rustle in
the grass, long grass, you immediately got anxious. But that
anxiety kept us alive.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Yeah. Yeah, So I've got so basically saying, this is
ancient wiring that we've got now, but because we're not
living in the environment that we're evolved to live in,
its miss firing. Because I was talking to this excellent
American philosopher called William b Irvine, and he put it
this way. You know, we are evolved to be dissatisfied

(56:12):
because the guy that was sitting on the savannah going
everything's fine, he got eaten by a tiger a few
seconds later, or a lion and the guy that was
like this isn't great and climbed a tree or brought
a fence or worried about a situation survived. So we're actually,
as you say, Dallas, we're evolved to always be dissatisfied,
and so no matter how good things get, we're going

(56:33):
to keep complaining. Is that what you're sort of saying, Dallas.

Speaker 17 (56:38):
Yeah, there were always well, never we never reached perfect
nirvana or happiness because because of these evolutionary impulses. It's
like if you have a child, then suddenly you've got
impulses to protect this child at all costs, and so
once again you're really alive to something bad could happen

(56:59):
to your child, your maybe so again, see that's how
we've that's the contradiction.

Speaker 11 (57:08):
Who we are.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
Yeah, absolutely, I agree with you. But is there some
way that we can hack that wiring so and recognize
when we're worrying about the wrong thing. So, if you're
steering at social media and you're getting angry because someone
looks like they're having a slightly flasher holiday than you,
if you can remind yourself that that is your ancient
wiring misfiring and instead focus and try and expend that

(57:34):
energy that does dissatisfaction on something more productive. Then you know,
you can turn that dissatisfaction into a superpower rather than
a weakness.

Speaker 10 (57:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 17 (57:43):
Well, I support a family in Africa, right, and they've
got an outside loo. They have to walk one hundred
meters to the loo, which also doubles as it's just
a long drop that doubles as their shower are what
area they have to carry water down for lou to

(58:04):
and then it's all for the loo. So it's a
horrible you know, it's not a place. So you know,
let's just sort of thing. Look, we need gratitude for
as you've been saying, we need to if we're aware
of others, that helps us to be more grateful for
where we are.

Speaker 4 (58:23):
Doesn't it.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Yeah, and if you and good on you for doing that, Dallas.
But if we concentrate on that, we you know, the
saying that always comes to mind for me as comparison
is the thief of joy. But it's more that we're
comparing ourselves with the wrong things. So you can always
compare yourself to the billionaires, and you compare to people
that have more than you. But if you just take
a second to compare to that family you're talking about, Dallas,

(58:45):
then maybe you can appreciate what you have a little
bit more.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
Yep, Yeah, yeah, Tallas. So here what you're saying though
about the fight or flight response that you know, we're
hardwired to run away from tigers and there's no longer
tigers that we're running away from, but we've got to
run away from something. And back to your point is,
surely we can.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Try and we create problems.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
Yeah, imaginary tigers that runn away from it is that
is causing us anxiety. But those tigers are not there.
So we come up with other struggles that we've got
to be fearful of and tap into that biology and
just makes no sense in twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
Yes, so we know.

Speaker 17 (59:22):
You deal with it. Matt said the same thing, that
we sort of we have internalized that instinct into non
profitable ways.

Speaker 5 (59:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 17 (59:32):
I I don't know how we overcome that.

Speaker 11 (59:35):
I guess that's why I think.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
You need to. I think you need to do things
that are hard. I think because we live in such
a luxurious world and there's there's an opportunity for people
to just indulge in basically anything they want that makes
us miserable, but struggle and and you know, taking on
difficult projects is actually brings us the happiness, ironically, more

(01:00:01):
happiness than the things that we think will bring us happiness.
You know, the easy, easy decisions make us miserable, and
the hard decisions make us happy, strangely, because that's the
way we're wired.

Speaker 10 (01:00:12):
Excellent guys, Thank you, Dallas, you're.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
A good man.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Thank for your call, Dallas.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
Love to hear from you. Are we and the most
ungrateful then we've ever been. But if you think things
are pretty good, or you can see you can stop
and smell the roses, love to hear from you, or
you don't think things are that great, by all means,
give us a call. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty is
the number to call. Now after the break, I want

(01:00:36):
to get your thoughts and talking about we've got to
do some things that are hard. It was a book
I read called The Comfort Crisis, yep, And I want
to get your thoughts about that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
When it comes to boredom, yeah, well, as JFK said,
we do things not because they're easy, but because they're hard.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
I very well said it is twenty eight to three.

Speaker 7 (01:00:55):
JUS talk sai'd be headlines with blue bubble.

Speaker 14 (01:00:57):
Tax says it's no trouble with a blue bubble. Gpn
Z says international doctors will stay in New Zealand as
pathways to registration expand if the and wrap around support
with things like accommodation and specialty registration. The governments pulled
the plug on open planned classrooms, saying the noisy and

(01:01:18):
problematic and new class builds will be more traditional. Bill
Cancer Enz says too many adults don't know the signs,
which makes the highly preventable disease much more deadly. Symptoms
include abdominal pain, blood and stools, unexplained weight loss, and fatigue.
Almost four years after a baby's body was found that

(01:01:39):
an Auckland recycling plant, police are still begging the family
to come forward. Architects and designers say works dried up
across the country, with fifty seven percent starting fewer projects
than twelve months ago and fewer practices with future work
lined up. Thousands of Kiwi teens have delivered letters to

(01:01:59):
the steps of Parliament today demanding action on modern slavery.
Its kind of detective work inside the hunt for New
Zealand's missing airs is You can see the full story
at Inzaid Herald Premium. Back to Matt Ethan Tyler Adams.

Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
Thank you very much, Rayleen, And we've asked the question,
are we their most ungrateful generation ever? Considering what our
ancestors have gone through to make sure that we are
alive today on the back of Matt's very powerful rants
and you can see that rant in its entirety on
our Facebook page and new stib dot co dot INZT.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Just to put it briefly, Yeah, oh eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty do you agree with this? For almost
all of human history survival men constant hunger, disease, and violence.
Yet our ancestors endured and prevailed so we could live
an unprecedented safety and abundance today here in New Zealand
by any historical measure. Modern New Zealanders and most worldwide,
enjoy comforts and opportunities unimaginable to those who came before us.

(01:02:54):
Instead of insistent, insistant complaining, we owe our fourbear's gratitude
and should honor their struggle by appreciating what we have
and striving to build even more for future generations.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
Yep, I agree with that nicely summarized us day.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
I to summarize my I used AI to summarize my messive.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Rent no indehes and there were eight hundred act and acy.
Why we are so ungrateful and why are we so
complainery in twenty twenty five when evidence would should suggest
it's never been better than it has.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
John, Welcome to the show your.

Speaker 5 (01:03:28):
Thoughts, John, Well, listen, thank you, and you need a
gold medal. Give work very hard on this and unfortunately
we're so despise of what's happening around ourselves now. Like
the war.

Speaker 6 (01:03:47):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:03:49):
It's said because all our anxistors they did it all
for us and we winch And it's a winging country,
do you think?

Speaker 16 (01:03:59):
So you go, all your.

Speaker 5 (01:04:02):
Work that you put into that is nothing but a
true true words. Like when I take up in the morning,
I always think my anxist. I don't know about anybody else,
but I always it doesn't matter, you know, I'm going
to pass on to But yeah, well it's.

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
A great outlook, John, But is the and winging isn't
the right word because there's a balance right between striving
to do better and we can always do better versus
sure having a winge because you don't think things aren't
going that well, where if you stop to smell the
roses and think about what your ancestors had to deal with,
life is pretty good. But there's that balance, right.

Speaker 5 (01:04:41):
Yeah, that's right. And look you said about in the
dark old days, you know they're a flood that we're
just the families are going through, you know, so they've
got a fair idea what's happening.

Speaker 16 (01:04:51):
Eh.

Speaker 5 (01:04:52):
And it's not until sickness starts to come unto your
body that you really started to wake.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
Up me yeah, oh yeah absolutely, And then you look
back and go when when the struggles do come, you
look back and go, what was I complain thing about
before this came along? And you know, I've got a
very good friend that's currently you know, he's a grower
down and Mochuacre Donnie, he's he's you know, his days

(01:05:19):
was going on. He was about to go over season
on holiday and then then this weather comes through and
then you've really then then you are experiencing what our
ancestors just experienced a lot. You just you're just battling
to survive very much.

Speaker 5 (01:05:33):
So once again I have to give you a.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
Gold medal, two gold medals. He's not going to get
out of the door.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
John, Why can't I get three gold medals? John? Immediately
find something to complain about, kol John.

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
You're a good dad. Now, I mentioned quickly before. So
this book that I read about a year ago was
called The Comfort Crisis, written by a guy called Michael Easter,
and just the wee blurb here, it sees, in many
ways we're more comfortable than we've ever been before, but
cut our shouted, temperate, controlled, overfeared, under challenged lives actually
be leading the leading cause of many are of our
most urgent physical and mental health. And it is a

(01:06:09):
fantastic read. But there was a chapter on boardom that
get your thoughts on that, and I think I struggle
with this. But we we have so many things that
are going well for us that we can't even sit
with our own thoughts and be bored without it stressing
ourselves out.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
Oh yeah, you mean you mean the phenomenon of running
around to find a phone before you go to the
toilet because you couldn't stand just to do your business
without having something to entertain you at the same time.

Speaker 3 (01:06:35):
Yep, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Or I often think about this sitting down to eat dinner,
and dinner isn't good good enough for people, so they
have they about to eat dinner. They go, no, no, I
need to get the right Netflix show on to entertain
me while I'm eating dinner. As if eating a beautiful
prepared meal isn't enough entertainment for us right now. You know,
you try telling that to their ancestors. Getting a meal

(01:06:56):
was all of it. Getting a meal was the meaning
in life. You got that meal, you ate it, you
focused on it, you enjoyed it. Now now delicious meal
is not good enough for us? What's the latest thing
on Netflix? Or scroll through the Flix. We used to
have to troll around trolls, not the world, but we
used to have to hunt and gather. And now what
we do is we just scroll through Netflix trying to

(01:07:18):
find something.

Speaker 3 (01:07:18):
To what and how crazy is that? O one hundred
and eighty ten eighty is the number to call? Why
are we so ungrateful in twenty twenty five when things
have never been so good? The evidence would show that
love to hear your thoughts and if you do feel
that life is a bit rough at the moment. We'd
love to hear from you. Why why are things so
bad now? Nineteen ninety two is a text number. It
is nineteen to.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
Three Matt Heath, Tylor Adams taking your calls on oh,
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty, it's Matt Heath and
Tyler Adams afternoons news talks.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
They'd be sixteen to three. So Matt thinks we all
need to collectively have a we stop and think about
how good life is in twenty twenty five when you
consider what our ancestors went through to make sure that
we're alive today and have the luxuries we've got.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
This Texas says Sawan says, guys, we win because we
have it easy. When you and all your family and
friends are literally starving, you're less inclined to winge about
it LeAnn Lawson or the Auckland trains run. Oh yes,
inclined to winch about Lian Lawson or the trains running late.
So there's been a lot of support for my punishing rant,
But Frank disagrees with me.

Speaker 11 (01:08:22):
Yeah, definitely made a load of dribble. Note look at
ancestors after at the end of the day when we're
sitting around, they had imagination about improvement. That's what it's
all about, evolution. And every night, you know, they would
do what the birds do. We have a bit of
a thing in a happiness and at the end of

(01:08:43):
the day and in the morning they wake up and
do what the dudes do again. Yeah, it's praise of existence.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Yeah, so how does this? How does this just just quickly?
How is that? Disagreeing with that? Seems to be agreeing
with what I was saying.

Speaker 11 (01:08:57):
No, I'm not. So We've got lots to complain about.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
We've got lots to complain about now, I've.

Speaker 11 (01:09:01):
Got corruption, We've got greed, We've got just stupid stuff
going on, you know. Just the saving to be a
country selling off all their ess heads is fabric of
the society is being destroyed. It's all about greed and
money now, it's not about having your next ad and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
Frank, have you got enough to eat?

Speaker 11 (01:09:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Have you got a roof over your head? Have you
got the bubonic plague?

Speaker 11 (01:09:32):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
So you're doing better than summon history.

Speaker 11 (01:09:35):
Oh, let's just stop gor It's just pathetic, mate. Look,
we were enslaved anyway, and I've got a new class
of slavey being created.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
But you know, are you enslaved? Are you enslaved? Frank?

Speaker 11 (01:09:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
I believe so Okay, So what what are the what
are the tenets of your enslavement? Frank?

Speaker 11 (01:09:57):
Well, I'm paying my way and paying Texas and stuff.
And we've got absolute idiots running a country and it's
designed to do what it's doing, take and to give
away and all the rest of it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
So would you rather believe in the would you? Frank?
Would you rather live? Saying the ice age? When you've
got nothing but animal skins to keep you warm from
the freezing cold, you're out hunting a wooly memmoth and
you know fifty percent of the population doesn't make it
to adulthood.

Speaker 11 (01:10:29):
No, that's just pathetic, mak We exist because.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
It was pretty awesome that they managed to survive. That
you think they're pathetic or you think I'm pathetic.

Speaker 11 (01:10:38):
What you were trying to point out to put me there,
I'm saying, I'm not going to put you down.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
I'm just asking you questions on your on your opinion.

Speaker 11 (01:10:46):
I'm trying to answer, if you allow me, we exist
because all my ancestors were survive as animals of the
ice ages. Yeah, survived, the servisi survived. Yeah, Okay, that's
the point of the knowledge and all their wisdom and
all the rest of it. Yep, it's you look around
and it's said. It's said because it's not being used,

(01:11:09):
it's being corrupt and down and the education.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
I think we're in agreement, Frank. I don't think you're
saying anything. I think you're saying exactly what I'm saying
in a slightly roundabout way. I think I think we're
in a total agreement. I'm not sure at.

Speaker 11 (01:11:26):
The government, Look, the system comply is just pathetic. You know,
let's just get rid of the government system.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Oh yeah, okay, Okay, Frank, I get it. So, yeah,
I think that's yeah. And I see what you're saying. Yeah,
so you're saying you agree with me on all the history,
and you're saying that it was amazingly struggle of our
ancestors to get here, but you think it's pathetic wherewith
ended up, and that there was plenty of stuff to
complain about now and that the system has taken away
really what it is to be human, which which was

(01:11:55):
the struggle.

Speaker 11 (01:11:57):
In the treason where it was a sheep and it's
called the Jui sheep. It was better than a dog,
and it was happy and bouncy and stuff that led
all the sheep to their depth a pet. Okay, that's
what we're going on. Of all these happy clappers in
these twets, the leading is on Mussolini, Stalin and Hitler.
We're all noble Peace Prize nominees, and that's what they

(01:12:20):
ended up doing. We've got idiots. Our whole system is
created to be stuffed up.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
Yeah, you know. So do you think you can take
Do you think you can take inspiration from the struggle
of our ancestors and now look around at the world
and try and make it better for our species going forward?
Did you think that's a noble cause?

Speaker 11 (01:12:42):
Well, I think industry and stuff. I think we should
be able to afford to eat fish, eat eggs, eat
well and all the rest of it, and have a
one bank which is owned by the people for the people,
and all the profits going to our hospitals and all
the rest of it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:57):
But would you agree that you would you agree Frank,
that your life is better than and easier, and it's
easier to get food than say, for people living twenty
thousand years ago.

Speaker 11 (01:13:11):
No, No, my parents, my grandparents are ashamed of what's
the development or the process that's going on. They were
all better off, Okay, after the wars, all the daggers,
you know, came back. They knew what life was all about.

Speaker 15 (01:13:32):
That.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
Yeah, but some of them didn't have legs. Yeah, you know,
and I think you know, post war, you know, there
was definitely post war people had a lot of perspective
because they'd seen absolute horrors, and I think a lot
of them were happy to be somewhere where they could
create something and work on something and lean into family
and such. Yeah, those that didn't have terrible PTSD, like

(01:13:53):
my grandfather who basically didn't say anything after he got
back from the war.

Speaker 3 (01:13:56):
Yeah. But I think that's two different things, right, is
that the mental strength of the ancestors in the past,
and even that not long in the past, fifty sixty
seventy years ago. So arguab they were happier and more satisfied,
even though things were harder because part of that struggle maybe,
and part of I would argue community was probably a

(01:14:16):
bit stronger than but part of that struggle is what
we missed now, which makes us feel a bit more angry,
a bit more wingy, a bit more anxious.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
Yeah, I get and look, I actually that was actually
pretty I mean not actually it was deep from Frank
because it does push the argument right at the end
of it. There are things to complain about now, and
there are things to make better. And so I guess
what I'm saying is the things we're complaining about are
the wrong things. If you're struggling to make your country

(01:14:45):
a better place in your community and a better place
for your family, and a better thing for the world,
and you're complaining, you know, you're noticing problems and trying
to fix them, then that's great. Then you're honoring the
legacy of our ancestors.

Speaker 3 (01:15:02):
Frank was a fighter, no doubt about it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:04):
If you're just making up things to complain about and
you're on social media and annoyed because someone has a
flash of watch than you very different, then I'd say
you're not honoring the struggle of our ancestors.

Speaker 3 (01:15:15):
Yeah, good discussion. Right, We're going to take more of
your calls very shortly. It is nine to.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
Three, the issues that affect you and a bit of
fun along the way. Mad Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons.

Speaker 3 (01:15:26):
News Talk said, be very good afternoon, give it is
six to three. This has certainly got the text machine
blowing up and we'd love to hear from you on
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. Are we as ungrateful
as we've ever been? Or do people have a legitimate
reason for for having a winch Oh eight hundred eighty
ten eighty.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
Yeah, so boy, our boy, there's so much feedback coming through. Yeah,
we screwed it ourselves because we are our fear bearers.
For bearers made things easy. Look at kids now, they
can afford energy, drink, sweets, junk food to name a few.
Do they earn it? I doubt it. Various garments have
made it too easy to live without contributing, not to mention,
we can't live without sky, KFC takeaways phones. You need

(01:16:08):
a little hardness to create enjoyment in your life from Clive,
A lot of truth to that. Yeah, yeah, Pat, welcome
to the show.

Speaker 18 (01:16:16):
Ye oh, good afternoon, gentlemen. You're getting it from all
angles today. I don't usually watch the Cask a Teer program,
but a couple of weeks ago I did because I was.
I thought it would be quite interesting to see them
in India, and I'd be interesting to see if any

(01:16:36):
of your listeners thought the same thing as I did
when I saw the two main characters of Caska Tears
handing out goals of whatever it was so with a
couple of nun breads to the crowd of children who
were absolutely over the moon. I'm so happy to be

(01:17:01):
getting a bowl of whatever it was. And I thought,
I wonder if when I was watching them that, I thought,
I wonder what's going through their mind at this moment.
Are they thinking, Gee, we don't have any poverty in
New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
Yeah, it's interesting. I've spent a bit of time in
India and it certainly puts things in perspective. Pat there's
still burned into my memory.

Speaker 13 (01:17:27):
Was.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
I was driving in a chauffeur driven car to do
and I saw these two they look like eight and
seven year old brother and sister in a dump basically
on the side of the road by themselves, and I
sort of made eye contact with them, but we were
speeding past, and it just actually shocked me because my

(01:17:48):
kids are about that same age at that same time,
and it made me think how much I worry about
my kids, how they're going at school and all that
kind of stuff. And then I was just thinking, these
kids are growing up in a dump, and I think
sometimes back here in New Zealand, we don't make that comparison.
We don't what we don't.

Speaker 18 (01:18:05):
And I just wish that we wouldn't keep saying that
we have got poverty in New Zealand, because I think
we need to wash that right out of our heads.
We do not have poverty in New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (01:18:15):
We've got to go. Sorry, Pat, thank you so much
for your call. We've got the news coming in hot, hot, in.

Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
Heavy yet, but so many people will have a chat
about this, so we'll keep it going after three o'clock.
If you want to jump in, you're more than welcome.
Oh wait, one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
number to call. We've got fall lines, but keep on
trying if you want to tax nine two ninety two
is that number. New Sport and Weather on its way.

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
Your new homes are instal and Entertaining talk. It's Mattie
and Taylor Adams afternoons on News Talk Savvy.

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
It's good afternoon. Welcome back into the program. So, as
we said before the news, we're going to carry this
song because so many people want to jump in on
this conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
Yeah, and also it seemed a bit vacuous to go
to our other conversation, which was being a fashion victim.
Fashion decisions that you've made.

Speaker 3 (01:19:03):
We'll bring it back another day. Maybe tight pants that
give you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:07):
Well, maybe we'll get to that at half past. So
just to recap summary, please, I punished the listenership with
a diatribe, a manifesto. No, it was just a diatribe
that I wrote in the middle of the night last
night after watching a documentary on the totality of human
history and the struggle that led to us existing today.

(01:19:30):
And the basic tenet of it was for almost all
of human history, survival meant constant hunger, disease, and violence.
Yet our ancestors endured and prevailed so we could live
an unprecedented safety and abundance today by any historical measure,
Modern New Zealanders and most people worldwide, enjoy comforts and
opportunities unimaginable to those who came before us. Instead of insistent,

(01:19:53):
incessant complaining, we owe our forebears gratitude and should honor
their struggle by appreciating what we have and striving to
build even more for future generations. Basically, I was saying
that it used to be so hard, and you've got
thousands of ancestors that stood up and fought and struggled
to feed their families so you could exist today. And

(01:20:15):
yet we seem to be complaining more and more than
ever as if we live in hard times.

Speaker 3 (01:20:20):
Bob has sent through a few texts today, and Bob,
I'm going to read one out because I know that
was making you a bit anxious. Guys, do we have
low wage earners in our society today? What my parents
spent twenty to twenty four dollars on cost five hundred
to one thousand dollars a week today, And my parents
had more of the important things than we have today.
My parents are my ancestors. From Bob.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
Yeah, well, that's an interesting point because and I thought
Frank made a really good point if you were listening
last hour that came through because just because things are
easier now doesn't mean they're right.

Speaker 3 (01:20:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
So I think maybe if I was up tonight writing
the rand on my ad to the end of it,
that we should still be striving for even though things
are easier than now, and there seems to be a
lot of ungrateful people out for the sacrifice of their
ancestors to get where they are, doesn't mean we should.
Part of the being grateful should be continuing to strive

(01:21:11):
to make the world a better place.

Speaker 3 (01:21:13):
Definitely, there's progress to be made, no doubt about that.
But what I would say to Bob though, is, potentially
you're quite right that what your parents could, what his
parents could get for groceries compared to what it costs today.
There's probably a lot of truth in that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:24):
But also, how come people with thin back then and
people are so obese now.

Speaker 3 (01:21:29):
Well, that's the thing. I'm sure Bob. Your parents might
have struggled to get certain cuts of meat they certainly
wouldn't have been able to get due by chocolate, for example,
the multitude of various things that we can buy at
the supermarket, some expensive, some not so expensive. All that
is that on offer because of the society that we've
ended up on the struggle that Bob's parents, I imagine
had to try and make sure they had maybe a

(01:21:50):
nice cut of meat and some vegetables and all the
rest that was a lot harder to get at that time,
even if it was cheap.

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
Yeah, Bob's parents the great ancestors I'm talking about, and
their struggle to feed Bob is exactly what should be
on it. Yeah, this text of CALSI is hard to
times create strong men. Strong men create easy times. Easy
times create weak men. Weak men create difficult times.

Speaker 3 (01:22:14):
Deep.

Speaker 2 (01:22:14):
Yeah, I like it. Quite a well known saying, but
it seems to be the case. Sarah, Welcome to the show. Hi,
how are you today?

Speaker 10 (01:22:24):
Good?

Speaker 2 (01:22:24):
Thank you you're feeling grateful?

Speaker 19 (01:22:27):
I am.

Speaker 20 (01:22:27):
I'm grateful every day.

Speaker 5 (01:22:28):
Good.

Speaker 10 (01:22:31):
Yeah, I was.

Speaker 20 (01:22:32):
I found it really interesting actually listening, and I do agree.
I think I think the things that sort of get
complained about nowadays seem insignificant in comparison to maybe some
of our ancestors. But I don't think it's so much
about the comparison, because I think it's all subjective, like

(01:22:55):
we this is the world that we live in now,
and so we don't, you know, because we're not living
in what we might say as hard times in the past.
Doesn't mean that our struggles today aren't relevant. But I
do think it's not so much a generational thing. I
think it's actually just some people just love to complain

(01:23:17):
and some you know, I deal with so many different
people on a day to day basis, and some people
just have a problem for every solution.

Speaker 2 (01:23:25):
What work are you and if you don't mind me asking,
Sarah that you deal with all these people, I work
in sales, Okay, yep.

Speaker 20 (01:23:32):
Yeah, So a lot of different sort of walks of
life and backgrounds. But I think it's important to you know,
my children are all very grateful, and I think it's
important for us as parents to take our children to
find the good and each day because I think struggles
are normal. Everyone has struggles in their life, and without them,

(01:23:57):
you don't appreciate the best parts of your life with it.
You know what, what's are high without a low?

Speaker 11 (01:24:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):
So do you think the perspective might be the problem.

Speaker 7 (01:24:09):
In that?

Speaker 2 (01:24:10):
I guess in a way, what I'm saying is that
it's hard to listen to people's complaints when you think
that their ancestors did everything they could just to survive
through a winter, to feed the children that then had
the other children that led to here. So if you
don't have that in mind, then maybe your problems in

(01:24:31):
twenty twenty five seem more real than they actually are.

Speaker 20 (01:24:37):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I think perspective is the problem, and
I do agree, but I yeah, what I'm trying to
say is, like, I think struggles are still real. You know,
I know a lot of people that are currently struggling,
and their struggles in comparison to struggling to survive the
day or the night might seem you know, they might

(01:25:04):
not seem as much of a struggle, but everyone is struggling,
and I think perception is the key there as well.

Speaker 2 (01:25:10):
I want to sir, if that that it's in some
ways they're struggling for meaning now. Because if your if
your goal in life, as it was for our ancestors,
was just to feed yourself and your family, or your
family first than you, that was you found meaning in
life once you once you got some, you got the
mammoth down, and you hacked a bit off it and
gave it to your kids, that was meaning. Whereas now

(01:25:31):
it might be harder for your kids and you know,
the people that you talk to day to day to
actually find the purpose in life, and maybe that that
makes things, you know, a struggle in their own right.

Speaker 3 (01:25:44):
Yeah, yeah, I mean to me, Sarah it's it's the
ability to avoid discomfort, right, and uncomfortable feelings or emotions.
That's all I worry about with the younger generation and
probably your kids as well, is that it is so
easy to find things to distract you and avoid anything
that makes you feel uncomfortable or anxious or emotional, that
that is creating more of a problem. Where in the

(01:26:06):
past we had to confront those things, we didn't have
a choice, and through that confrontation and struggle we found
some sort of meaning and enjoy isn't the right word,
but certainly satisfaction. And it's now so easy to try
and avoid that that it's making the problem worse.

Speaker 20 (01:26:20):
Yeah, absolutely, I agree, and I think yeah, I mean,
I think my eldest daughter had a lot of you know,
quite a bit of disappointment and what seemed to her
to be quite a hard situation last year, and from that,

(01:26:41):
I think it built a lot of resilience and she
learned how to deal with those hard emotions and she
used that to sort of for the better. This year,
she's had an amazing year and it wouldn't have happened
if she hadn't had those challenges last year.

Speaker 2 (01:26:58):
Yeah, right, Yeah, yeah, it's it's a complex one, isn't it.

Speaker 11 (01:27:04):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
I often think about the movie that Peter Jackson made,
the documentary They Shall Not Go Old, and it had
these young men and trenches and they're all smiling and smoking,
and there's this there's this this book I read a
lot of people read it called Sapiens by yvel Noah Harari,
and he talks about the three slots of concern that
we have, and no matter what condition you and you

(01:27:26):
still find three things to worry about. We're evolved to
worry about three things. So if you're in the trenches,
you worry about getting blown up, you worry about trench foot,
and you worry about your family at home. But if
in the modern world, then you might fill those with
different things. You might worry about where your career is going.
You know what your girlfriend is doing, and you know
whether you've got a cool enough car. You know you

(01:27:49):
and those those concerns seem just as punishing and just
as real, even though with a sense of perspective they
may seem ridiculous.

Speaker 10 (01:27:58):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:28:00):
Sarah, thank you very much for giving us a buz.
It's great to chat with you.

Speaker 20 (01:28:04):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:28:04):
You too, Thank you all of this great afternoon. Just
when you mention andreat New Zealand a serira, Yeah, fantastic.
Just when you mentioned soldiers there and absolutely agree with
what you said, and that was from sapience, wasn't it?
Those three things? But from what I hear with soldiers
as well, and modern day soldiers, right when they've been
in the theater of war or serving overseas, they're part

(01:28:27):
of that brotherhood and community and team, and a lot
of those soldiers when they return home to normal life
really struggle with that because they've lost effectively what is
a tribe right, and probably that goes deeper too, they've
lost their sense of meaning. It makes sense when they
are serving overseas that they've got their mission and it
is clear cut. They've got their team around them, their

(01:28:49):
brothers and arms and women in arms, and then when
they come back to the life that we're living now,
they can't make sense of it.

Speaker 7 (01:28:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:55):
I've did some speeches recently with Jamie Panell, who wrote
the excellent box Serviceman Jay The Untold Story of a
New Zealand Essays Soldier, and he was just talking about
how odd it is to come back from those overseas cumstances,
which are life and death. To then go into a
dairy to buy, you know, a soft drink, and then
listen to people complaining about little things.

Speaker 3 (01:29:16):
So jarre and you're just going whoa, yeah, yeah, oh.
One hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to
call it. Seventeen pus three Very good afternoon, June twenty
pass three.

Speaker 2 (01:29:27):
So we're talking about gratitude to our ancestors in the
modern world, and when things are easier than they've ever been,
why are we complaining so much? And tell you what
the text machine is exploding certainly, is you sound like
a righteous weasel that is deaf, dumb and blind. Well,
in response to that text, if I was dumb, I

(01:29:48):
wouldn't sound like anything, would I.

Speaker 3 (01:29:50):
Yeah, it'd be pretty tough to do this job if
that was the case.

Speaker 2 (01:29:53):
Yeah, I mean I don't know how blind people sound.
Some deaf people have a distinctive voice. Yeah, but yeah,
thanks for you all your messages that are coming through. Mark,
welcome to the show.

Speaker 16 (01:30:03):
Here come after Gah, are you good?

Speaker 2 (01:30:05):
Very good?

Speaker 16 (01:30:06):
It's good, Ques. I think'stically when you're that wars. There's poverty,
there's greed that's been going on for centuries, that's been
going on since the day manset foot on earth. It's
like that it will ever change anything about it that

(01:30:27):
during modern times, humanity as a species has only got
better at it. I think when you when you're talking
about the generations, that's how they lived. They didn't know
anything better, but they bettered themselves and over the years
they improved things they saw, you know, they made things better.

(01:30:49):
You know, the greatest generations that we ever had in
this country would have been the people that served in
World War One and World War Two, and then the
generations after that it was their children. You know, we've
basically you look at society now, we've things are a
lot easier now. But with the human nice everything, you know,

(01:31:11):
from banking, from post office, from talking to people. You know,
we don't go visit our neighbors anymore. How many people
actually know their neighbors. Yeah, you know, we've humanized everything.
Like I was born in the seventies, so I was
raised in Dunedin, born on a farm. You know, you

(01:31:32):
look at Dunedin now, how many big businesses and industries
have left Dunedin. They're gone, you know, denied was a
driving community. And as a kid growing up in the
seventies and eighties and then we had the best time
of our lives was in the nineties and in the
late nineties and had two thousand. That's when the world
started to evolve. That's when cell phones come out, emailing

(01:31:55):
come out, you know, and we were installed with our
work ethics from reliability and accountability. And you were raised
because you saw that's how your parents were raised. Now
are the biggest thing with society now is social media.
Everything we do, we have in our lives, we have

(01:32:18):
our kids, it's all done and run on social media. Mean,
when you'd go in a whole school holiday when you're
a kid, what's the most you would say the appearance
are we there yet? And your pearans would talk to you. Now,
what do we do with parents today? We shove electronics
into our kid teens until you know, and I'm missing
the best part.

Speaker 2 (01:32:39):
It is a thing what you say, Mark, because we
talk about the generations, but each generation creates the next generation.
So every generation has to take responsibility for how you know,
we complain about you know, really young people today being
weak or you know, emotionally vulnerable, but we've we've made
them that way, perhaps try handing them iPads and and

(01:33:00):
we have and shielding them from the pain. But also
the wider thing that I think you're saying is just
because things are easier doesn't mean that we're happier. So
the struggle can actually give you meaning in life, if
you know what I mean. So when you're not when
you're not seeing people, so you have all these things
that are easy and at your fingertips, but what actually

(01:33:22):
makes us happy is spending time with our neighbors, and
it is, you know, working with people towards something and
having a purpose. So just because it seems that as
things get easier, people get more and more miserable, I
guess is what I'm saying.

Speaker 16 (01:33:35):
Well, we've lost that human touch, and we're allowed Section
society to dumbest down and to dumb the next generations down.
We're allowed Section society to say it's okay, it's okay
to lose all the time. It's okay if you get
thirteenth place, we'll give you a medal for that sort
of stuff. We've got. It's not just that, but you've

(01:33:56):
got generations of today like my daughter's twenty and her
biggest fear is that she's not going to be able
to buy a house because she's seen the generations before,
how you could have one parent working and a mom
stay home mum.

Speaker 10 (01:34:07):
And that was my mum.

Speaker 16 (01:34:08):
And now things have changed. Things have got greedy, like
you could go to the go to the dairy. Now
remember when you spent a dollar things? But then people
had meaning, we had pride, We had great leaders that
kept this informed. We didn't shun people with intelligence or
that wanted to make things better. Now it seems to

(01:34:29):
be we have a society where you can pretend to
be everything, you can pretend to be someone that you're
actually not, and it's acceptable. You know, we're raising kids.
We're raising kids to basically, look, you can pretend if
you fail, it's okay. You know we're we're it's you know.
Look take Anzac Day for an example. Now, Anzac Day,

(01:34:51):
you go on Facebook and social media.

Speaker 10 (01:34:53):
Anzac Day.

Speaker 16 (01:34:54):
There's two things that I was really upset about because
my family served them both World Wars and Korea. Anzac
Day on social media and Facebook was that it seemed
to be acceptable and okay to go on about two things.
Exact day was a glorified war. We shouldn't be having it.
And there was a whole race issue going on a
border and the MOLDI how the Maldy people and all

(01:35:16):
this and that how they were mistreated. The whole focus
was taken off. That we were anzects, we were one.
We did it for a purpose, didn't matter what color
your skin was, or what race you were and anything.
But now we've you understand where I'm coming from, it
seems okay to Yeah, it's it's very disheartening because I
grew up in an era where I saw it was

(01:35:39):
what it was, You told people how it was. We
didn't get offended. Now we get offended about everything.

Speaker 3 (01:35:47):
And yeah, to go to the break, I get what
he's saying about community. It does feel like we've trapped
ourselves in this gilded cage. That it's it's easier than
it's ever been to so called connect with people. But
that connection is fake, isn't it. It's a weak fact
simile of what it is to build a relationship. And
that's hot.

Speaker 2 (01:36:03):
It's sorry to cut you off, Mark, but we are
very late for this head break and got away.

Speaker 3 (01:36:08):
We see twenty seven pass three.

Speaker 1 (01:36:14):
Mad Heathen Tyler Adams afternoons call Oh eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty on news Talk ZBS.

Speaker 3 (01:36:20):
Twenty nine past three.

Speaker 2 (01:36:21):
This Texas says, I'm so grateful. I remind my kids
and husband constantly how lucky they are. My grandmother had
had children, then fled the Nazis. Oh sorry, my grandmother
fled the Russian Revolution through Europe into Romania. He married,
My grandmother, had children, then fled the Nazis into Yugoslavia
during World War Two. My grandmother was killed in a

(01:36:42):
concentration camp because she was a Gypsy. My grandfather also
died as a result of shrapnel during bombing. My father
came to New Zealand in nineteen fifty as a child refugee.
As a fourteen year old, he spoke no English and
couldn't read or write. He taught himself and ended up
as an engineer. I am so grateful for all their bravery.

Speaker 7 (01:36:58):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:36:59):
That puts things into perspective, doesn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:01):
Yeah, Well, that's someone that's appreciating the struggle of their
ancestors to get them there. Yeah, And I guess that's
the wider point I'm trying to make that if you
concentrate on that it's you might question what you're complaining
about now and maybe just ask is this the most
important thing to be complaining about now or could I
be finding some way to help make the world a
better place for myself, my family, my community in the country.

Speaker 3 (01:37:23):
Yeah, nicely said right, We're horribly late for the headline
that Raylene is standing by. It is bang on three
point thirty.

Speaker 7 (01:37:33):
You talk said the headlines.

Speaker 14 (01:37:35):
With blue bubble taxis it's no trouble with a blue bubble.
The Greens say rates are rising because of under investment,
which the government's making worse. The parties defending local councils
against a coalition call to save money by making hard
decisions on spending and focus on simplicity. Five hundred lab

(01:37:55):
work is employed by Awanui will be getting an average
nine percent pay rise ending six months of strike action.
A medical expert says malatonin is not a sedative drug
or a sleeping pill and helps regulate body clocks. This
after Kiwi Rail has told staff they must report any
use of sleeping meds for safety reasons. Some shift workers

(01:38:17):
use meds to get sleep despite rostering issues. What Anger
tamadikis promising to focus on better supporting kids in need
and to scrap what's not working. As its bosses undergo
scrutiny by Parliament committee, thousands of Kiwi teens have delivered
letters to the steps of Parliament this afternoon demanding action

(01:38:37):
on modern slavery, top detective urgers, support for mothers after
distressing cases of babies found in bins. You can see
more at ends at Herald Premium. Back to Matt Ethan
Tyler Adams.

Speaker 3 (01:38:50):
Thank you very much, Raylean. Now we were going to
transition to talking about high heels and why would you bother?
But we've had so many text and calls on this.
We're going to keep this going to the end and
we might get to that topic tomorrow. But love to
hear from you on one hundred and eighty ten eighty
A quick summary please, Matt Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:39:07):
Basically, for all human history, survival meant constant hunger, disease
and violence. Yet our ancestors and Jordan prevailed so we
could live in this unprecedented safety and abundance we do today,
and yet what do we do with it? We complain?
Do we need to get some perspective and just realize
that we have it pretty good? Yeah, love to hear
your thoughts. Cody, tell you you think there's some flaws

(01:39:27):
in this argument.

Speaker 11 (01:39:30):
A little bit.

Speaker 4 (01:39:30):
Yeah, I think it's I mean, the point of humanity
is to make things easier, so that's kind of what
you want to lead with. And the fact that the
mindset of I struggle, so therefore you should struggle also
feels like it might have a bit of way in
this conversation where.

Speaker 2 (01:39:48):
You definitely don't want that for your kids, do you?
You don't work your whole life, and that's why we
try and set up our kids and have inheritance and
stuff and work really hard because we want our codes
kids to have a better life than us. So that,
I mean, it's definitely a motivation for us, isn't it.

Speaker 4 (01:40:03):
Cody, You're right exactly exactly, And I think it's like
and how you look at it. I'm sure people our
ancestors were complaining about benign problems as well. It's just
we don't know about it because you need things that
make it to the surface. We're the most prominent ones

(01:40:23):
being famine, death.

Speaker 7 (01:40:27):
Diseases.

Speaker 4 (01:40:28):
And it could all depend on like who are you
listening to, Like do you surround yourself with people that
complain about stuff that doesn't you know, as you said
earlier about something having a nicer watch than you.

Speaker 16 (01:40:43):
Do.

Speaker 19 (01:40:43):
You do.

Speaker 2 (01:40:45):
You have a lot of complainers around you, Cody.

Speaker 4 (01:40:47):
I try not to, but it's definitely hard on this
day and age.

Speaker 2 (01:40:54):
Do you think that that struggle you talk about it,
and absolutely that's so true because I was talking before
about the ice age and it was freezing cold. All
you had is animal skins, and you know, you'd try
and kill a mammoth for something to eat, and then
you maybe get eaten by a cave b yourself that night.
But they did still, you know, draw paintings. You know,
they did start, they do drew pictures. Interestingly enough, they

(01:41:15):
just seemed to draw only what they did, which was
there's a lot of pictures of mammoths in the caves.
But you're right, we don't know what their hopes and
dreams were, but I imagine that the struggle gave their
life meaning and that you'd work really hard and if
you had some food you could go, Yep, I've achieved
what I'm supposed to do.

Speaker 4 (01:41:37):
Definitely said that would be a driving force for direction. Yeah,
simply anyone that didn't meet that would probably not make
it in the long run. But I'm sure if you
look back. I can't quote it well enough because they
don't know the research, but I'm sure even back then
they looked after the elderly and the women and children.

Speaker 2 (01:41:59):
Yeah, you can see that by that by the burial patterns.
You know, they bury, they buried their parents and their
children with them with flowers and such. So you know,
there was definitely those there's same exactly. I mean they
were the same humans as us. You know, there were
Homo sapien sapiens, so they had the same feelings as us.
I mean, they were differently, different culture and different goals.

(01:42:20):
But I wonder you know, you talk about you trying
to make things easier, and I think that's absolutely true.
But do you think in the making things too easy,
we might be making people miserable because we seem to
things seem to be easier than ever, but people seem
to be more miserable than ever.

Speaker 4 (01:42:38):
Yeah, it's definitely a trade off because you could talk
about how during the Great World Wars you could have
a single income family working and they could afford a
family afford, but the food wasn't very good. The constant threadles,
war or disease would.

Speaker 2 (01:42:57):
Have wholly out.

Speaker 4 (01:42:59):
Kind of the flip side, as we have an abundance
of so probably none of it's good for us. An
abundance of people, but we're less connected and we've ever been.
I don't Yeah, I don't think I could name neighbors
two or three doors down, while if I talk to
my parents, they could probably name the whole street they
lived on.

Speaker 3 (01:43:19):
Yeah, but it's a bit sorry you carry on. Well,
I was just going to say it's pretty you know,
fair enough. I'm sure cavemen had some trite complaints from
time to time, jeep as it's cold out there. Well
you know, you know you should have seen Trevor trying
to get that Willy memmoth. He was horrible. But we
just know. I'm sure they did have some pretty trite complaints.

Speaker 2 (01:43:37):
But I imagine their complaints would be I guess my
point is, and I can absolutely see that there's a
shallowness to my point, Cody, but my point is that
their complaints were probably legitimate complaints. Yeah, they are probably
like it is very cold, we're in the middle of
a nic age.

Speaker 3 (01:43:51):
They didn't know that, And if Trevor did bugger up
the hunt, then that's nobody's eating, so fair enough to
but but.

Speaker 2 (01:43:57):
It would not have been great as well back then
if you had a different out point outlook in life,
like I imagine if you didn't believe in the gods
that you were supposed to believe, and then you'd be
kicked out of the cave pretty quickly and left to die.

Speaker 4 (01:44:11):
Yeah, yeah, you're definitely. I'm sure there was, like talking
about the stars and because you look at the nights
going and you as it came, and you probably think
what am I looking at? And that's yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry,
I kind of brew at the point there, Steep, It's good,
we like it.

Speaker 2 (01:44:30):
It's I think it's one of those discussions that's difficult
to know the absolute truth because you're talking about the
emotions of people that lived in the time when they
couldn't write it down or definitely they had nothing to
post on social media to register what their actual hopes
and dreams were in life. Just a few pictures of
some mammoths on the side of a cave is all
we've got to go for. And they're burial practices basically.

(01:44:53):
But hey, thank you so much for you call Cody,
I get what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (01:44:56):
Yeah, great, call right. We're a bit late for messages,
so we'll play some of those and come back with
more of your calls. On OH one hundred and eighty
ten eighty. It's twenty to four.

Speaker 1 (01:45:05):
Your home of Afternoon Talk, Taylor Adams. Afternoons call OH
eight hundred eighty ten eighty News Talk.

Speaker 3 (01:45:12):
Say'd be very good afternoons. You having a great discussion
on why many people appear to be ungrateful when times
have never been better when you look at what our
ancestors had to go through. This text interesting kidday, guys.
I was born into a cult, escaped war, migrated, struggled
to learn the language and to integrate no social support.
I then started to slowly reinvent myself and heal My

(01:45:34):
struggles give me perspective that I still use every day.
I look at people who complain about the first world problems,
they still experience life events that shows them the depths
of despair. I don't think life and the journey it
takes people on discriminates between people. We live by the
same rules. Some less fortunate people I know are the
most ungrateful. Being grateful is a choice.

Speaker 2 (01:45:53):
Here, there you go. This Texas says, if you can plain,
you remain, things don't change. If you praise, you raise,
you grow.

Speaker 7 (01:45:59):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (01:46:00):
Nice. Ryme, Andrew, your thoughts on this discussion we're having today, I.

Speaker 19 (01:46:06):
Think and the timeline that you guys have specified, which
is just from the birth of man, which you know,
which is debatable in itself, to where we are today.
I think you know, we've we've all been grateful, so

(01:46:32):
even today. You know, I've traveled a lot, I've lived
in a lot of different countries, and I think New
Zealanders are actually some of the most grateful people that
have ever come across and and I think that is
because we're so remote in terms of our location, and

(01:46:56):
I think that makes them grateful in a way when
we're as hop step in a jump well some island
outliers and they're grateful because they're isolated. Have my own
they just you know, Shoodland, you know, and it's just great.
I mean, it's just you're going to be grateful for
where we are.

Speaker 2 (01:47:16):
Yeah, it's where.

Speaker 19 (01:47:19):
That's where the gratefulness focused on.

Speaker 4 (01:47:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:47:23):
Do you think that because you've traveled a lot, Andrew?
Because I sometimes think that people in New Zealand who
haven't traveled and haven't been to a third world country,
or actually haven't been to a country with really really
terrible traffic. Just to give a shallow example, don't and
to use a cliche from a from a fantastic Free
Dag song, don't know lucky? How how lucky they are?

(01:47:45):
You know, there's that other side of it though. They
may be grateful for their country, but there is do
you see that side of New Zealanders as well, where
we don't quite realize how good we have it?

Speaker 19 (01:47:53):
You just, uh, if you've been caught in traffic.

Speaker 12 (01:48:00):
In Madrid.

Speaker 19 (01:48:04):
And it's only really you could actually just get out
and runner, yeah, and just pay the karenside the road
and run it and get there earlier. Uh, and the
bank start to think, you know, what, what, what's going wrong?
You know, I don't think we've got a good I

(01:48:26):
think we're sort of like kind of balanced fort of
society thinking. And I think, you know, I think, you know,
I don't think children are you know, I've got a
you know, it's some that's just left university. I don't
think he's ungrateful for the he's now living in Europe.

(01:48:48):
I don't think he's ungrateful for the time that he's
been in New Zealand. He said it was fantastic.

Speaker 3 (01:48:54):
Sounds like a good kid.

Speaker 2 (01:48:55):
Well, that sounds like you've you've created a kid, because
I mean that's that's the job, you know, with a
lot of people are texting through and complaining. As I
was saying before about you know the new generations or
whatever generation is after them. But each generation creates the
next generation. And so if the young kids today are
as weak and complaining and addicted to social media as

(01:49:17):
we say they are, then that's my generation's fault. That's
Gen x's fault.

Speaker 3 (01:49:21):
Shame on you, Shame on us.

Speaker 2 (01:49:23):
And if we're pathetic, that's the boomer's fault.

Speaker 3 (01:49:26):
The millennials are coming up, and you know, the.

Speaker 2 (01:49:29):
Boomers, they came out the back of those people that
went to war. So anything you can blame when the boomers,
when the Boomers were running around being hippies, yeah that
was the appearances fault something.

Speaker 3 (01:49:41):
But yeah, I've got some blame too, Tony. What's your
thoughts on us?

Speaker 21 (01:49:45):
Yes, well, I think we tend to forget. You know,
if you go back to the late eighteen hundreds. So
one hundred and fifty years ago the average age of
a man was around fifty and for a woman it
was around fifty five. Today, the average age of a
man is around eighty for women is about eighty five.

(01:50:06):
So you could argue we've got another thirty years to
worry about things over and above our ancestors. I also
think that our expectations as we go through time become
more and more. If you used to take the average
person today and transport them in time back one hundred

(01:50:28):
and fifty years, then would probably think, what the hell
am I worrying about? And equally, if you use to
transport a person from the eighteen hundreds through to today again,
they say, man, you've got it made. So I think
that it's just our expectations, and that I think that
one of the issues is, of course, is that we

(01:50:50):
have unconsciously we place those expectations on our children. But
they we want them to do better than us, and
they want to do better them. They want to do better.
You know, the son wants to do better than father,
and yet the father wants us something to do well
and alt to do well.

Speaker 16 (01:51:09):
So I think that.

Speaker 21 (01:51:12):
As long as humans are on this earth. They will always,
at any given time, are going to worry about something.

Speaker 2 (01:51:20):
Yeah, And I think that's true. I think we will
always find something worry about. I think we're evolved to
you know, I think we're a while bet we were saying,
you know, we're revolved to be dissatisfied because the person
that was satisfied immediately got killed by a saber tooth tiger.
And the guy that was dissatisfied and did something to
protict himself. You know, So wherever we are, we're probably
going to find something to complain about.

Speaker 21 (01:51:40):
Yes, right, I mean if you was to go back,
you know, a thousand years or two thousand years, then
you'd be used to that type of liston, you'd be
the way of doing things equally as much less faceic.
Probably in another fifty years we're going to be used to,
you know, stepping outside, getting in a drive of this car,
not even drive it ourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:52:01):
Yeah, and the hardship, the hardship of having to steer
a steering wheel, and I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:52:06):
So anxious to drive it out.

Speaker 21 (01:52:08):
That's right. I mean, you though, if you mentioned to
them that they'd have to take, they would have to
say in driving test it was a driving test.

Speaker 2 (01:52:16):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, Tony, thank you for your call.

Speaker 3 (01:52:19):
Yeah, I mean it sounds trit I don't know it
is true, because God knows, I complain from time to time.
But it is that gratitude thing, isn't it. And it
feels like maybe now we're finally in a time where
we can look around and say, yep, some things aren't
so great and I'm pissed off sometimes, but we've got
the ability to say, actually, there are a lot of
things I should be grateful for, Whereas our ancestors way

(01:52:41):
back in the day, I don't know if they could
really look around and say, man, I'm glad.

Speaker 2 (01:52:45):
This test is. I think we may be ungrateful because
we haven't lived the struggle, even though we can see
and understand it. If you don't live it, it's hard
to really feel it and therefore appreciate how much better
and easier this world is now as opposed to then
in the past. Yeah yeah, yeah, but I think you
can be I just think perspective is an important thing
when you're trying to claim, as a lot of people claim,

(01:53:07):
that this is the worst time ever, it's the most
anxious time that we're living in this incredible hardship. It
just might help you out if you just look at
the history of humanity and you might just realize living
in New Zealand and twenty twenty five pretty good. Yep,
p see pretty good, And maybe you might roll back
some of that complaining.

Speaker 3 (01:53:27):
Nicely said, it is nine to four back in the mine, the.

Speaker 1 (01:53:31):
Big stories, the big issues, the big trends and everything
in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons used talk
ZEDB on News Talks.

Speaker 3 (01:53:40):
EDB Andrew, you're our lucky last caller. How you doing today?

Speaker 9 (01:53:45):
How are Yeah?

Speaker 22 (01:53:45):
Just the comment I'd make is that a few generations ago,
whenever people had a problem, they looked for themselves to
fix it. Now whenever it's whenever people have a problem,
they look to the government or externally and say, someone
needs to fix this for me. So when people have
fixed it are used to fixing things themselves, they don't complain,

(01:54:08):
whereas now everyone sits through and complains because there's no
there's little expectation on themselves to fix it.

Speaker 2 (01:54:14):
Yeah, I'll be interesting though. Back in the old days,
you know, we keep using an example of hunting the mammoth.
You would look for your family group, your tribe to
collectively fix the problem of needing to.

Speaker 22 (01:54:23):
Eat, and your support network was your family.

Speaker 2 (01:54:28):
Yeah yeah, now now.

Speaker 16 (01:54:30):
Support where now?

Speaker 22 (01:54:31):
Support comes from for a lot of people from people
I've never met before, because they just sit there and go.

Speaker 12 (01:54:36):
Well, I've got a problem here.

Speaker 16 (01:54:37):
Who's going to fix this for me?

Speaker 2 (01:54:40):
Yeah, nicely said, And that can create a lack of
meaning because they don't know how to fix it or
what to fix you know where the problems used to
be quite simple, didn't they. Yeah, as much as our
ancestors struggled so hard, and we've got to thank them
for staying alive, so we're alive now. Their problems were
very clear to them. Yeah, you know, their village was
about to be burnt down by some people that were

(01:55:01):
raiding it, so they had to fight them. You know, Yeah,
they were hungry.

Speaker 3 (01:55:05):
You know, clear decision, but a hard decision.

Speaker 2 (01:55:07):
There was there was a tiger walking towards them, so
they had to have rocks at it.

Speaker 3 (01:55:10):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:55:12):
Those were easy problems. That was a f There were
hard problems to solve, but the solutions were clear.

Speaker 3 (01:55:16):
The satisfaction when you solved that problem would have felt good.
That was a great discussion. Thank you very much for
that and for today.

Speaker 2 (01:55:22):
Yeah, and thank you to all your great New Zealands
for listen to the show. Thanks so much for all
your calls and texts. We had a great time chatting.
The met and Tyler Affternoons podcast will be out and
about now, so if you missed our chats on whether
or not you should slam malatonin and a Zopper clone,
then listen to our podcast. And also we chatted a
lot you might have noticed about disrespecting your ancestors by complaining,

(01:55:46):
so follow our podcast Brieving at your Pods. Ryan Bridges
up next, but right now, Tyler, yep, my good friend,
tell me why am I playing the song?

Speaker 3 (01:55:55):
I have got no idea.

Speaker 7 (01:55:57):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:55:58):
It's from the album Jagged Little Pearl by Alanas Morrissett,
and it has the line swallow it down like a
jagged little pearl, which was a sort of a vague
reference to Zopper Clone and Mezapan from our first chat.

Speaker 3 (01:56:10):
Tenuous but I'll allow it.

Speaker 2 (01:56:11):
Good joy, Right, thanks for listening everyone, See you tomorrow, AVO,
and until then, give them a taste of keeping from us.
All right.

Speaker 1 (01:56:22):
For more from news Talks at b listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio